Author Topic: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.  (Read 48575 times)

seafoid

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1125 on: May 03, 2017, 04:01:36 PM »
why is it an economic basket case?

-collapse of "Protestant" industries such as shipbuilding
- 1969-1995 and the destruction of a lot of infrastructure plus the emergence of a generation with poor business/management skills
- the world moved on
- Protestant brain drain
- UK economy trina cheile

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Owen Brannigan

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1126 on: May 03, 2017, 05:48:37 PM »
why is it an economic basket case?

N.I. requires a subvention of around 10bn per annum to keep all services running.  The majority of heavy industry is gone. Most jobs introduced in the last 10 years are in the service sector.  Agriculture is dependent on subsidy from EU for majority of farmers who have small family holdings which produce a barely sufficient income.  Infrastructure, especially when compared to RoI or UK is poor, arterial roads are not dulled or motorways, railways are insufficient, public transport is barely adequate.  There are no natural resources exploited to the point where they produce a significant income, e.g. oil, gas. renewable energies.  Inward investment has not brought in wealth creating or manufacturing industry and has been wasted on a service sector giving millions to law firms, call centres, etc.  The tax base is insufficient to sustain the region.  Housing stock is adequate with no plan to improve it or the associated infrastructure.  The main export is our young people who are educated to third level and then go abroad where their skills can be appreciated.

I could go on.  Thank God for the UK government's willingness to continue to pump billions into a small rural region which will never provide a return on its investment.  so, many of us are living off the Queen's shilling and working in the public sector which still makes up well over 60% of the economic activity.

BennyCake

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1127 on: May 03, 2017, 06:04:37 PM »
In other words, the Brits had to get us. It's not costing them near enough.

Not only that, but even in the good times, the infrastructure was poor, nhs fecked, waiting lists etc. This place was never designed to be prosperous, nor never will be

StGallsGAA

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1128 on: May 03, 2017, 07:47:11 PM »
why is it an economic basket case?

-collapse of "Protestant" industries such as shipbuilding
- 1969-1995 and the destruction of a lot of infrastructure plus the emergence of a generation with poor business/management skills
- the world moved on
-Protestant brain drain
- UK economy trina cheile


Didn't realised Gregory Campbell had left??

armaghniac

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1129 on: May 03, 2017, 08:16:33 PM »
why is it an economic basket case?

-collapse of "Protestant" industries such as shipbuilding
- 1969-1995 and the destruction of a lot of infrastructure plus the emergence of a generation with poor business/management skills
- the world moved on
-Protestant brain drain
- UK economy trina cheile


Didn't realised Gregory Campbell had left??

I think you misunderstand the meaning of brain drain, it means brainy people leaving, not Gregory Campbell.
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Milltown Row2

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1130 on: May 03, 2017, 08:20:12 PM »
why is it an economic basket case?

N.I. requires a subvention of around 10bn per annum to keep all services running.  The majority of heavy industry is gone. Most jobs introduced in the last 10 years are in the service sector.  Agriculture is dependent on subsidy from EU for majority of farmers who have small family holdings which produce a barely sufficient income.  Infrastructure, especially when compared to RoI or UK is poor, arterial roads are not dulled or motorways, railways are insufficient, public transport is barely adequate.  There are no natural resources exploited to the point where they produce a significant income, e.g. oil, gas. renewable energies.  Inward investment has not brought in wealth creating or manufacturing industry and has been wasted on a service sector giving millions to law firms, call centres, etc.  The tax base is insufficient to sustain the region.  Housing stock is adequate with no plan to improve it or the associated infrastructure.  The main export is our young people who are educated to third level and then go abroad where their skills can be appreciated.

I could go on.  Thank God for the UK government's willingness to continue to pump billions into a small rural region which will never provide a return on its investment.  so, many of us are living off the Queen's shilling and working in the public sector which still makes up well over 60% of the economic activity.

You're really selling it to our southern brethren
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Rossfan

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1131 on: May 03, 2017, 08:25:46 PM »
I suspect Owen will be a no voter when the "Border poll" comes around.
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Syferus

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1132 on: May 03, 2017, 08:43:11 PM »
I suspect Owen will be a no voter when the "Border poll" comes around.


When we absorb most of the financial and high tech jobs that are running from Britain like it's a burning house we might be able to afford to support all the special interests in the north.

omaghjoe

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1133 on: May 03, 2017, 09:02:14 PM »
I suspect Owen will be a no voter when the "Border poll" comes around.


When we absorb most of the financial and high tech jobs that are running from Britain like it's a burning house we might be able to afford to support all the special interests in the north.

If I was in the South Id want a Health Care System before I started to pay for the North's one 

Milltown Row2

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1134 on: May 03, 2017, 09:14:23 PM »
Brilliant health care system in the south .... no?
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omaghjoe

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1135 on: May 03, 2017, 09:19:54 PM »
Brilliant health care system in the south .... no?

Eh? Probably worse than Americas TBF, at least here if you've got insurance and dont mind forking out $$ you'll get well looked after.
In the South its just crap for everyone.

Milltown Row2

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1136 on: May 03, 2017, 09:26:26 PM »
Brilliant health care system in the south .... no?

Eh? Probably worse than Americas TBF, at least here if you've got insurance and dont mind forking out $$ you'll get well looked after.
In the South its just crap for everyone.

I was taking the piss. I was going to follow it up with cheaper housing also
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omaghjoe

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1137 on: May 03, 2017, 09:38:57 PM »
Brilliant health care system in the south .... no?

Eh? Probably worse than Americas TBF, at least here if you've got insurance and dont mind forking out $$ you'll get well looked after.
In the South its just crap for everyone.

I was taking the piss. I was going to follow it up with cheaper housing also

I know! I was going along with it for affect FFS  ::)

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shark

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1138 on: May 03, 2017, 09:44:57 PM »
Brilliant health care system in the south .... no?

Eh? Probably worse than Americas TBF, at least here if you've got insurance and dont mind forking out $$ you'll get well looked after.
In the South its just crap for everyone.

A bit of a blunt assessment. Certainly it is managed abysmally and is not attaining value for money for the taxpayer. However the care isn't crap for everyone, as you say. Areas of cancer care are world class. Paediatric care, despite the children's hospital fiasco, is of a very high standard.
I know I'm clutching at straws, but there are some aspects that are functioning amid the general mess.

armaghniac

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1139 on: May 03, 2017, 09:56:12 PM »
why is it an economic basket case?

N.I. requires a subvention of around 10bn per annum to keep all services running.  The majority of heavy industry is gone. Most jobs introduced in the last 10 years are in the service sector.  Agriculture is dependent on subsidy from EU for majority of farmers who have small family holdings which produce a barely sufficient income.  Infrastructure, especially when compared to RoI or UK is poor, arterial roads are not dulled or motorways, railways are insufficient, public transport is barely adequate.  There are no natural resources exploited to the point where they produce a significant income, e.g. oil, gas. renewable energies.  Inward investment has not brought in wealth creating or manufacturing industry and has been wasted on a service sector giving millions to law firms, call centres, etc.  The tax base is insufficient to sustain the region.  Housing stock is adequate with no plan to improve it or the associated infrastructure.  The main export is our young people who are educated to third level and then go abroad where their skills can be appreciated.

I could go on.  Thank God for the UK government's willingness to continue to pump billions into a small rural region which will never provide a return on its investment.  so, many of us are living off the Queen's shilling and working in the public sector which still makes up well over 60% of the economic activity.

While this is helpful, any real analysis needs some comparison in detail between NI and ROI to see what is different, given that the ROI does pay for itself (and has some left over to send to Poland and build the A5 in Tyrone). I cannot see what the major difference between North and South is, perhaps because south Armagh isn't very different. There is a real lack of detailed research on this. For instance, where do all these extra public sector staff work. Class sizes are a bit bigger in the south, but generally education would not be hugely different and there may be more working in the third level in the south. Certain aspects of the social services are profoundly understaffed in the south, but the total number of staff cannot be that great. There could be differences in the degree of privatisation.

A bit of a blunt assessment. Certainly it is managed abysmally and is not attaining value for money for the taxpayer. However the care isn't crap for everyone, as you say. Areas of cancer care are world class. Paediatric care, despite the children's hospital fiasco, is of a very high standard.
I know I'm clutching at straws, but there are some aspects that are functioning amid the general mess.

Comparative stats do not show things much better in NI. The health service in the south is OK for most, but does have some unacceptable failures.
if at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B