Author Topic: New Hurling Championship Format  (Read 2477 times)

manfromdelmonte

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Re: New Hurling Championship Format
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2017, 04:20:19 PM »
just shows that Westmeath losing to Offaly the last day had huge ramifications

Owenmoresider

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Re: New Hurling Championship Format
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2017, 07:26:54 PM »
Most of it makes sense to be fair, the integrity of the provincial championships is maintained, the U21 changes are right too but don't see why they couldn't have done same with Minor. The new lineups for the lower tier competitions has a curious anomaly, Sligo finished 3rd in the Meagher Cup group behind Leitrim and Warwickshire, but are automatically promoted while only the winner of saturdays final between those teams goes up, peculiar.

stevecw

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Re: New Hurling Championship Format
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2017, 07:30:42 PM »
Most of it makes sense to be fair, the integrity of the provincial championships is maintained, the U21 changes are right too but don't see why they couldn't have done same with Minor. The new lineups for the lower tier competitions has a curious anomaly, Sligo finished 3rd in the Meagher Cup group behind Leitrim and Warwickshire, but are automatically promoted while only the winner of saturdays final between those teams goes up, peculiar.

I agree in general I like it but the Sligo thing makes no sense. Neither does the losers of Antrim/Carlow getting into next years qualifier group. While Meath who were in the Leinster group this year, won a game too and only finished 4th on Scoring difference are demoted to Christy Ring.
Fairest solution would be a play off between Meath and losers of Carlow/Antrim

manfromdelmonte

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Re: New Hurling Championship Format
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2017, 10:11:12 PM »
I'm against this new structure

its basically the national league all over again

johnneycool

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Re: New Hurling Championship Format
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2017, 01:49:16 PM »
I'm against this new structure

its basically the national league all over again

True, but then again the current NHL structures have a lot going for them with very few dead rubbers unlike the early rounds of the championship (not as bad as the football mind).

Kilkevan

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Re: New Hurling Championship Format
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2017, 03:38:03 PM »
Does this mean Galway will actually get to play in Galway?

Depends on under who's jurisdiction these round robin "provincial" games are run. I'd suggest that the Munster Council and the Leinster Council will still be sending the lads to man the turnstiles and with Leinster's intransigence in the past would need addressed but you'd have to hope so.

There is a pathway of progression for the developing counties but its a pretty damn narrow one.

In terms of U21 and minor it seems Antrim (and possibly another Ulster county) merge into Leinster which has its good aspects, but I'd hate to see the Ulster Council be allowed to abdicate even more responsibility towards hurling as it currently is doing very little at these age groups and below.

Galway begged to go into Leinster and Leinster did them a favour. Now they're giving out about not playing at home. Some out West have a habit of blowing hot air.

I tend to agree with Donal O'Grady in terms of these proposals seeking to mend what isn't broken. The Munster Championship is competitive every year with any one of at least three, often four, teams each year being capable of winning it and in the odd year that stretches to five. The Leinster Championship is coming back too with Kilkenny dropping back so much and Wexford coming up so fast. We could see some classic matches between Wexford and Galway over the next couple of years. The round robin provincial championship idea is more-or-less a repetition of the NHL Division 1A and the extreme form of competitiveness it offers. Do teams need that? Do supporters really want to see the same teams play each other time and again?

The round robin groups are also programmed for a point in the year where they will not compete with the football super 8s anyway. Add to that the fact that you'd struggle to find 8 teams who are competitive in football at any one time and I think if hurling holds it's fire and doesn't get drawn into this idea of more games then it will serve the game well. Division 1 in football is a joke with at least two sub-divisions within the one group of teams. Everyone knows before it starts who will be top and who will be bottom. Fans might buy into the super 8s initially but I think in the long run football will be left with a headache which hurling would do well to avoid. Anyway, hurling fans are not going to be drawn away from the game and into looking at Dublin, Kerry and maybe Mayo giving 5/6 other teams a hiding at fistball every year.

johnneycool

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Re: New Hurling Championship Format
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2017, 09:36:27 AM »
I'd say that Galways inclusion into Leinster was of mutual benefit to both as KK were cruising to Leinster titles with 15 plus points the norm and interest was draining. With Galway in the pot also there was a chance of Kilkenny getting a bit of a challenge now and then.

Gate wise, why would the Leinster Council be so set against Galway getting a home game? I could never understand that.
Was it the competing counties not wanting to give Galway that bit of an advantage, i.e. when in Rome and all that.

Kilkevan

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Re: New Hurling Championship Format
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2017, 10:29:10 AM »
I'd say that Galways inclusion into Leinster was of mutual benefit to both as KK were cruising to Leinster titles with 15 plus points the norm and interest was draining. With Galway in the pot also there was a chance of Kilkenny getting a bit of a challenge now and then.

Gate wise, why would the Leinster Council be so set against Galway getting a home game? I could never understand that.
Was it the competing counties not wanting to give Galway that bit of an advantage, i.e. when in Rome and all that.

It's got more to do with Irish geography than anything else. Galway is not convenient for any Leinster county regularly competing at the business end of the Leinster Championship. Whilst Galway coming in was no doubt attractive to Leinster, it was they who wanted in and having been done a favour in the first place should stop bleating about wanting to take gate money out of the province. Now, their Under 21s and Minors moving into the Leinster Championships at those levels is a far more sensible argument and I do think Leinster should accommodate them on that score. As for hosting matches, it's the Leinster Championship, not the Leinster and a county out Wesht Championship so there should be an onus on Galway to recognise their guest status.

GaillimhIarthair

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Re: New Hurling Championship Format
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2017, 11:17:53 AM »
I'd say that Galways inclusion into Leinster was of mutual benefit to both as KK were cruising to Leinster titles with 15 plus points the norm and interest was draining. With Galway in the pot also there was a chance of Kilkenny getting a bit of a challenge now and then.

Gate wise, why would the Leinster Council be so set against Galway getting a home game? I could never understand that.
Was it the competing counties not wanting to give Galway that bit of an advantage, i.e. when in Rome and all that.

It's got more to do with Irish geography than anything else. Galway is not convenient for any Leinster county regularly competing at the business end of the Leinster Championship. Whilst Galway coming in was no doubt attractive to Leinster, it was they who wanted in and having been done a favour in the first place should stop bleating about wanting to take gate money out of the province. Now, their Under 21s and Minors moving into the Leinster Championships at those levels is a far more sensible argument and I do think Leinster should accommodate them on that score. As for hosting matches, it's the Leinster Championship, not the Leinster and a county out Wesht Championship so there should be an onus on Galway to recognise their guest status.
Not convenient - are you really serious!??  Its 2017, not 1917, travel has developed a little in the past 100 years so getting down West shouldn't be much of a bother to most Leinster counties!!  Anyway, on a more serious note, I really couldn't give a damn about the home games as Tullamore will do for now - the championship format will change eventually away from Leinster / Munster and into a more sensible group format with a home and away structure.  What's more important is getting our U21 and Minor teams into Leinster or wherever - the current system hinders badly our lads in those age brackets. 


Rossfan

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Re: New Hurling Championship Format
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2017, 11:20:09 AM »
If I'm reading the new proposals correctly the 4th and 5th teams in Munster and Leinster don't get to the AI Championship?
I would suspect that the 5th team in Munster will usually be of a higher standard than the 3rd in Leinster.
Nearly be as well off abolishing the current NHL, let the "Big 10" play a League, top team wins the League. Top 2 Leinster teams play a Leinster Final, top 2 Munster likewise and then the 2 Provincial winners and 4 top League sides compete for the AI.
And what genius came up with "Preliminary Quarter Final" ????
What's wrong with "Play off"or Qualifier game????
2016 - Hurling League Champions, Football League Semi finalists

Kilkevan

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Re: New Hurling Championship Format
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2017, 01:50:07 PM »
I'd say that Galways inclusion into Leinster was of mutual benefit to both as KK were cruising to Leinster titles with 15 plus points the norm and interest was draining. With Galway in the pot also there was a chance of Kilkenny getting a bit of a challenge now and then.

Gate wise, why would the Leinster Council be so set against Galway getting a home game? I could never understand that.
Was it the competing counties not wanting to give Galway that bit of an advantage, i.e. when in Rome and all that.

It's got more to do with Irish geography than anything else. Galway is not convenient for any Leinster county regularly competing at the business end of the Leinster Championship. Whilst Galway coming in was no doubt attractive to Leinster, it was they who wanted in and having been done a favour in the first place should stop bleating about wanting to take gate money out of the province. Now, their Under 21s and Minors moving into the Leinster Championships at those levels is a far more sensible argument and I do think Leinster should accommodate them on that score. As for hosting matches, it's the Leinster Championship, not the Leinster and a county out Wesht Championship so there should be an onus on Galway to recognise their guest status.
Not convenient - are you really serious!??  Its 2017, not 1917, travel has developed a little in the past 100 years so getting down West shouldn't be much of a bother to most Leinster counties!!  Anyway, on a more serious note, I really couldn't give a damn about the home games as Tullamore will do for now - the championship format will change eventually away from Leinster / Munster and into a more sensible group format with a home and away structure.  What's more important is getting our U21 and Minor teams into Leinster or wherever - the current system hinders badly our lads in those age brackets.

Pearse Stadium is 3 hours from Nowlan Park, near four hours from Wexford Park and 2.5 hours from Parnell Park and those times are in good traffic conditions which aren't usually prevalent on matchdays. Given that those are the regular features at the business end of the Leinster Championship are you going to tell us that Pearse Stadium is still convenient? Travel has seen a lot of developments over the last 100 years, thanks for telling me that because I wondered what those funny rectangular things with four circles under them, one at each corner, and another circle behind the front window on the right hand side was. Geography hasn't though and it's still a trek to get to Salthill for players and fans in the better counties.

The reason you see home and away matches in Championship hurling is because those counties have arrangements with each other. Try to find similar terms with Kilkenny, Wexford and Dublin and if ye can't, accept it and get on with the fact that the GAA's tendency in such circumstances is to go with neutral stadia which are as equidistant as possible to the competing counties. Couple that with the fact that since ye entered the Leinster Championship in 2009 ye've had (including this weekend) 23 matches, 19 of which have been at neutral venues, 4 away but against Westmeath (2011, 2012 and 2016) and Laois (2013) and it's not unusual in Leinster to give home advantage to weaker teams who entered the competition earlier (it's the norm with round robin entrants) what are ye actually giving out about anyway?

As I've said, I have more sympathy with the argument of Galway's underage structures being accommodated in Leinster but ye're doing yourselves no good by getting up people's noses by moaning about home advantage which rarely happens at Championship level anyway.

AZOffaly

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Re: New Hurling Championship Format
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2017, 02:00:43 PM »
I think it would be no harm for Galway to get a enter into a home and home agreement with the likes of Offaly, LAois and Westmeath. Similar to what they do in Munster. Most games are neutral, mostly Thurles, but at least the likes of Limerick and Cork can do home and home.

Then if Wexford, Kilkenny or Dublin draw Galway, play it in Portlaoise or Tullamore unless it's a Leinster final.

GaillimhIarthair

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Re: New Hurling Championship Format
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2017, 02:46:26 PM »
I'd say that Galways inclusion into Leinster was of mutual benefit to both as KK were cruising to Leinster titles with 15 plus points the norm and interest was draining. With Galway in the pot also there was a chance of Kilkenny getting a bit of a challenge now and then.

Gate wise, why would the Leinster Council be so set against Galway getting a home game? I could never understand that.
Was it the competing counties not wanting to give Galway that bit of an advantage, i.e. when in Rome and all that.

It's got more to do with Irish geography than anything else. Galway is not convenient for any Leinster county regularly competing at the business end of the Leinster Championship. Whilst Galway coming in was no doubt attractive to Leinster, it was they who wanted in and having been done a favour in the first place should stop bleating about wanting to take gate money out of the province. Now, their Under 21s and Minors moving into the Leinster Championships at those levels is a far more sensible argument and I do think Leinster should accommodate them on that score. As for hosting matches, it's the Leinster Championship, not the Leinster and a county out Wesht Championship so there should be an onus on Galway to recognise their guest status.
Not convenient - are you really serious!??  Its 2017, not 1917, travel has developed a little in the past 100 years so getting down West shouldn't be much of a bother to most Leinster counties!!  Anyway, on a more serious note, I really couldn't give a damn about the home games as Tullamore will do for now - the championship format will change eventually away from Leinster / Munster and into a more sensible group format with a home and away structure.  What's more important is getting our U21 and Minor teams into Leinster or wherever - the current system hinders badly our lads in those age brackets.

Pearse Stadium is 3 hours from Nowlan Park, near four hours from Wexford Park and 2.5 hours from Parnell Park and those times are in good traffic conditions which aren't usually prevalent on matchdays. Given that those are the regular features at the business end of the Leinster Championship are you going to tell us that Pearse Stadium is still convenient? Travel has seen a lot of developments over the last 100 years, thanks for telling me that because I wondered what those funny rectangular things with four circles under them, one at each corner, and another circle behind the front window on the right hand side was. Geography hasn't though and it's still a trek to get to Salthill for players and fans in the better counties.

The reason you see home and away matches in Championship hurling is because those counties have arrangements with each other. Try to find similar terms with Kilkenny, Wexford and Dublin and if ye can't, accept it and get on with the fact that the GAA's tendency in such circumstances is to go with neutral stadia which are as equidistant as possible to the competing counties. Couple that with the fact that since ye entered the Leinster Championship in 2009 ye've had (including this weekend) 23 matches, 19 of which have been at neutral venues, 4 away but against Westmeath (2011, 2012 and 2016) and Laois (2013) and it's not unusual in Leinster to give home advantage to weaker teams who entered the competition earlier (it's the norm with round robin entrants) what are ye actually giving out about anyway?

As I've said, I have more sympathy with the argument of Galway's underage structures being accommodated in Leinster but ye're doing yourselves no good by getting up people's noses by moaning about home advantage which rarely happens at Championship level anyway.
Agreed BUT its us doing most of the trekking over the years be that to Tullamore, Portlaoise or CP - there are quite a lot of hurling fans west of the corrib and Ballinasloe is only half way to Dublin! Like I said earlier, Tullamore will do for now, getting the underage teams catered for is much more important.  We have approached a few counties in relation to the home and away arrangement and other that KK, its been kicked to touch by all others AFAIK.


manfromdelmonte

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Re: New Hurling Championship Format
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2017, 05:28:03 PM »
I'd say that Galways inclusion into Leinster was of mutual benefit to both as KK were cruising to Leinster titles with 15 plus points the norm and interest was draining. With Galway in the pot also there was a chance of Kilkenny getting a bit of a challenge now and then.

Gate wise, why would the Leinster Council be so set against Galway getting a home game? I could never understand that.
Was it the competing counties not wanting to give Galway that bit of an advantage, i.e. when in Rome and all that.

It's got more to do with Irish geography than anything else. Galway is not convenient for any Leinster county regularly competing at the business end of the Leinster Championship. Whilst Galway coming in was no doubt attractive to Leinster, it was they who wanted in and having been done a favour in the first place should stop bleating about wanting to take gate money out of the province. Now, their Under 21s and Minors moving into the Leinster Championships at those levels is a far more sensible argument and I do think Leinster should accommodate them on that score. As for hosting matches, it's the Leinster Championship, not the Leinster and a county out Wesht Championship so there should be an onus on Galway to recognise their guest status.
Not convenient - are you really serious!??  Its 2017, not 1917, travel has developed a little in the past 100 years so getting down West shouldn't be much of a bother to most Leinster counties!!  Anyway, on a more serious note, I really couldn't give a damn about the home games as Tullamore will do for now - the championship format will change eventually away from Leinster / Munster and into a more sensible group format with a home and away structure.  What's more important is getting our U21 and Minor teams into Leinster or wherever - the current system hinders badly our lads in those age brackets.

Pearse Stadium is 3 hours from Nowlan Park, near four hours from Wexford Park and 2.5 hours from Parnell Park and those times are in good traffic conditions which aren't usually prevalent on matchdays. Given that those are the regular features at the business end of the Leinster Championship are you going to tell us that Pearse Stadium is still convenient? Travel has seen a lot of developments over the last 100 years, thanks for telling me that because I wondered what those funny rectangular things with four circles under them, one at each corner, and another circle behind the front window on the right hand side was. Geography hasn't though and it's still a trek to get to Salthill for players and fans in the better counties.

The reason you see home and away matches in Championship hurling is because those counties have arrangements with each other. Try to find similar terms with Kilkenny, Wexford and Dublin and if ye can't, accept it and get on with the fact that the GAA's tendency in such circumstances is to go with neutral stadia which are as equidistant as possible to the competing counties. Couple that with the fact that since ye entered the Leinster Championship in 2009 ye've had (including this weekend) 23 matches, 19 of which have been at neutral venues, 4 away but against Westmeath (2011, 2012 and 2016) and Laois (2013) and it's not unusual in Leinster to give home advantage to weaker teams who entered the competition earlier (it's the norm with round robin entrants) what are ye actually giving out about anyway?

As I've said, I have more sympathy with the argument of Galway's underage structures being accommodated in Leinster but ye're doing yourselves no good by getting up people's noses by moaning about home advantage which rarely happens at Championship level anyway.
Agreed BUT its us doing most of the trekking over the years be that to Tullamore, Portlaoise or CP - there are quite a lot of hurling fans west of the corrib and Ballinasloe is only half way to Dublin! Like I said earlier, Tullamore will do for now, getting the underage teams catered for is much more important.  We have approached a few counties in relation to the home and away arrangement and other that KK, its been kicked to touch by all others AFAIK.
ye were complaining about going down to Munster years ago too

then it was complaining about playing Roscommon over the suck in Connacht finals

now complaints about travelling to Leinster

Kilkevan

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Re: New Hurling Championship Format
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2017, 05:39:14 PM »
I'd say that Galways inclusion into Leinster was of mutual benefit to both as KK were cruising to Leinster titles with 15 plus points the norm and interest was draining. With Galway in the pot also there was a chance of Kilkenny getting a bit of a challenge now and then.

Gate wise, why would the Leinster Council be so set against Galway getting a home game? I could never understand that.
Was it the competing counties not wanting to give Galway that bit of an advantage, i.e. when in Rome and all that.

It's got more to do with Irish geography than anything else. Galway is not convenient for any Leinster county regularly competing at the business end of the Leinster Championship. Whilst Galway coming in was no doubt attractive to Leinster, it was they who wanted in and having been done a favour in the first place should stop bleating about wanting to take gate money out of the province. Now, their Under 21s and Minors moving into the Leinster Championships at those levels is a far more sensible argument and I do think Leinster should accommodate them on that score. As for hosting matches, it's the Leinster Championship, not the Leinster and a county out Wesht Championship so there should be an onus on Galway to recognise their guest status.
Not convenient - are you really serious!??  Its 2017, not 1917, travel has developed a little in the past 100 years so getting down West shouldn't be much of a bother to most Leinster counties!!  Anyway, on a more serious note, I really couldn't give a damn about the home games as Tullamore will do for now - the championship format will change eventually away from Leinster / Munster and into a more sensible group format with a home and away structure.  What's more important is getting our U21 and Minor teams into Leinster or wherever - the current system hinders badly our lads in those age brackets.

Pearse Stadium is 3 hours from Nowlan Park, near four hours from Wexford Park and 2.5 hours from Parnell Park and those times are in good traffic conditions which aren't usually prevalent on matchdays. Given that those are the regular features at the business end of the Leinster Championship are you going to tell us that Pearse Stadium is still convenient? Travel has seen a lot of developments over the last 100 years, thanks for telling me that because I wondered what those funny rectangular things with four circles under them, one at each corner, and another circle behind the front window on the right hand side was. Geography hasn't though and it's still a trek to get to Salthill for players and fans in the better counties.

The reason you see home and away matches in Championship hurling is because those counties have arrangements with each other. Try to find similar terms with Kilkenny, Wexford and Dublin and if ye can't, accept it and get on with the fact that the GAA's tendency in such circumstances is to go with neutral stadia which are as equidistant as possible to the competing counties. Couple that with the fact that since ye entered the Leinster Championship in 2009 ye've had (including this weekend) 23 matches, 19 of which have been at neutral venues, 4 away but against Westmeath (2011, 2012 and 2016) and Laois (2013) and it's not unusual in Leinster to give home advantage to weaker teams who entered the competition earlier (it's the norm with round robin entrants) what are ye actually giving out about anyway?

As I've said, I have more sympathy with the argument of Galway's underage structures being accommodated in Leinster but ye're doing yourselves no good by getting up people's noses by moaning about home advantage which rarely happens at Championship level anyway.
Agreed BUT its us doing most of the trekking over the years be that to Tullamore, Portlaoise or CP - there are quite a lot of hurling fans west of the corrib and Ballinasloe is only half way to Dublin! Like I said earlier, Tullamore will do for now, getting the underage teams catered for is much more important.  We have approached a few counties in relation to the home and away arrangement and other that KK, its been kicked to touch by all others AFAIK.
ye were complaining about going down to Munster years ago too

then it was complaining about playing Roscommon over the suck in Connacht finals

now complaints about travelling to Leinster

I think the Russian international soccer goalkeeper had a point when he said Luch Energiya Vladivostok should play in the Japanese league instead of the one in Russia; couldn't Galway play in the New York Championship or something?  ;D