Author Topic: The Sweeper  (Read 1055 times)

KKCat57

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The Sweeper
« on: February 21, 2017, 12:26:14 PM »
Can anyone please explain to me why managers don't just put a marker on the sweeper in hurling.

hardstation

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Re: The Sweeper
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2017, 02:39:50 PM »
Might end up like the time Tipp sent Lar Corbett out to mark Tommy Walsh, which was ridiculous.
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AZOffaly

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Re: The Sweeper
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2017, 02:55:32 PM »
Might end up like the time Tipp sent Lar Corbett out to mark Tommy Walsh, which was ridiculous.

Keystone Cops. Tommy after Pa Burke. Lar after Tommy. Jackie after Lar. All in a big heap in the corner after half time. Mental stuff.

I think the idea was they wanted Lar to mark Tommy, but instead of just lining him up at half forward, they did that mental thing. Cody wouldn't have moved Jackie out on Lar in the half back line if Pa Burke was in at #15. Jackie would have taken Burke and Tommy would have marked Lar. Sometimes people really overcomplicate things.

KKCat57

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Re: The Sweeper
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2017, 04:09:02 PM »
Thanks lads. I remember that day. I don't think it is the same thing. What would happen if say, Paul Murphy or Cillian Buckley picked up Tadhg de Burca? I get frustrated when I see a player running loose at each end of the field.

AZOffaly

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Re: The Sweeper
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2017, 04:20:30 PM »
OK, to be serious, I think marking the sweeper would be effective in stopping that man getting unopposed ball, however it does affect the shape of your own team, you'd have to sacrifice a defender. That would probably play into the hands of the team with the sweeper. 5 v 5 at one end is more likely to score than 7 v 7 at the other end.

I thought what Tipp did to de Burca in the Munster Final was class. They actually looked for him, and rained high balls in on top of him. The Tipp forwards challenged him from behind, and either won ball or broke it to other forwards who were expecting it. They basically put a target on the sweeper, and made his position the focal point of their attack.

Two Hands FFS

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Re: The Sweeper
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2017, 04:44:39 PM »
I'd have one of the corner forwards to play around the middle where the sweeper is . I think the corner back would follow the corner forward out the pitch..so it would be 2 v 1...instead of the Sweeper standing completely on his own. The sweeper will get fed up pretty soon not been able to stand completly on his own

Would still leave 2 of the Full Forward line in there.

KKCat57

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Re: The Sweeper
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2017, 04:46:58 PM »
Thanks for your response. Yes indeed. What Tipp did was brilliant because the last thing a sweeper needs is balls coming to him. Not sure I am happy that 5v5 has a better chance of scoring than 7v7. Given the state of our back 6 at the moment I suppose 5v5 would be a kind of madness. I would love to see a game played with a marker on the sweeper all the same.

Milltown Row2

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Re: The Sweeper
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2017, 06:34:15 PM »
Thanks for your response. Yes indeed. What Tipp did was brilliant because the last thing a sweeper needs is balls coming to him. Not sure I am happy that 5v5 has a better chance of scoring than 7v7. Given the state of our back 6 at the moment I suppose 5v5 would be a kind of madness. I would love to see a game played with a marker on the sweeper all the same.

So why don't they play the sweeper? Kilkenny have always had the attitude of every player win your own balls! Big clearance from defence win your ball and take the score... personnel has changed and they ain't able... the goal threat is limited now too.... as someone has pointed out rain them down on top of the sweeper or by pass him altogether... draw him out or push him back to fullback
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manfromdelmonte

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Re: The Sweeper
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2017, 11:27:08 PM »
Thanks for your response. Yes indeed. What Tipp did was brilliant because the last thing a sweeper needs is balls coming to him. Not sure I am happy that 5v5 has a better chance of scoring than 7v7. Given the state of our back 6 at the moment I suppose 5v5 would be a kind of madness. I would love to see a game played with a marker on the sweeper all the same.

So why don't they play the sweeper? Kilkenny have always had the attitude of every player win your own balls! Big clearance from defence win your ball and take the score... personnel has changed and they ain't able... the goal threat is limited now too.... as someone has pointed out rain them down on top of the sweeper or by pass him altogether... draw him out or push him back to fullback
Kilkenny have used the blanket tactic for their defence since Cody faced Cork in the mid 2000s.
Each line of players in the pitch falls backwards to cover the space around the next line.
Yes they've some good ball winners, but their principal defensive tactic is kill the space.
Even if a defender is beaten, there's another player dropping back to double up

johnneycool

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Re: The Sweeper
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2017, 09:37:57 AM »
Tipp have worked out Waterford and DeBurca twice using two different approaches.

First time the forwards stayed narrow and they rained high ball down on him and that gave the forwards time to get to the pitch of the ball and negate his effectiveness. Tipp now have some physically imposing forwards to suppliment bonner Maher and DeBurca isn't the biggest to hold his own in these challenges.

Also at times on Sunday they sprayed the ball wide away from him with the forwards staying wide, but both approaches depend on the quality of the ball coming in and this is where Tipp have improved immensely. Paudie Maher has improved in this regard as well as the brother Ronan in centre back who can pick out their team mates up the park.
Waterford need a plan B for Tipp if they want to go any further.

As for Kilkenny, they've been crowding their defence for years, Big Brian Hogan didn't venture far from in front of his full back line with the midfielders coming in and closing down that space as well as the half forwards filtering into midfield which left huge spaces for their forwards to thrive on which they duly did.
Yes, they could win their own ball, but they'd also the likes of Eddie Brennan, TJ Reid and Richie Hogan hovering around anything that broke off and bombing goal bound.
If Kilkenny can get TJ Reid, Hogan and the Fennelly's firing they'll be in the shake up, but big Walter will need to shake off the winter coat and do a bit more for the team.
Time to put Paul Murphy at 3 and Padraig Walsh at 6 IMO.


didlyi

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Re: The Sweeper
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2017, 01:54:54 PM »
I watched the Tipp Waterford Game and was amazaed at the number of times Waterford players try to kick the ball out of tackles, stick their feet into rucks and use their legs as defences against a ground stroke. The problem is that if a tipp player was to pull on the ground he would probably be penalised for rough play. This type of play is ugly to watch and Waterford are masters at it.

manfromdelmonte

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Re: The Sweeper
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2017, 04:59:47 PM »
Tipp have worked out Waterford and DeBurca twice using two different approaches.

First time the forwards stayed narrow and they rained high ball down on him and that gave the forwards time to get to the pitch of the ball and negate his effectiveness. Tipp now have some physically imposing forwards to suppliment bonner Maher and DeBurca isn't the biggest to hold his own in these challenges.

Also at times on Sunday they sprayed the ball wide away from him with the forwards staying wide, but both approaches depend on the quality of the ball coming in and this is where Tipp have improved immensely. Paudie Maher has improved in this regard as well as the brother Ronan in centre back who can pick out their team mates up the park.
Waterford need a plan B for Tipp if they want to go any further.

As for Kilkenny, they've been crowding their defence for years, Big Brian Hogan didn't venture far from in front of his full back line with the midfielders coming in and closing down that space as well as the half forwards filtering into midfield which left huge spaces for their forwards to thrive on which they duly did.
Yes, they could win their own ball, but they'd also the likes of Eddie Brennan, TJ Reid and Richie Hogan hovering around anything that broke off and bombing goal bound.
If Kilkenny can get TJ Reid, Hogan and the Fennelly's firing they'll be in the shake up, but big Walter will need to shake off the winter coat and do a bit more for the team.
Time to put Paul Murphy at 3 and Padraig Walsh at 6 IMO.
TJ Reid needs to stop taking the ball into contact and continuously looking to draw a free

he was a much better player before he put on all that extra muscle

johnneycool

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Re: The Sweeper
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2017, 10:50:43 AM »
I watched the Tipp Waterford Game and was amazaed at the number of times Waterford players try to kick the ball out of tackles, stick their feet into rucks and use their legs as defences against a ground stroke. The problem is that if a tipp player was to pull on the ground he would probably be penalised for rough play. This type of play is ugly to watch and Waterford are masters at it.

They're safe enough as no one pulls on a ball anymore, but you'd just love it if someone did open the shoulders and let fly in a ruck

Milltown Row2

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Re: The Sweeper
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2017, 02:48:54 PM »
I watched the Tipp Waterford Game and was amazaed at the number of times Waterford players try to kick the ball out of tackles, stick their feet into rucks and use their legs as defences against a ground stroke. The problem is that if a tipp player was to pull on the ground he would probably be penalised for rough play. This type of play is ugly to watch and Waterford are masters at it.

They're safe enough as no one pulls on a ball anymore, but you'd just love it if someone did open the shoulders and let fly in a ruck

Aye, they were the days!

The need to pick that ball up at the minute is intense
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

Last Man

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Re: The Sweeper
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2017, 03:53:47 PM »
Tipp have worked out Waterford and DeBurca twice using two different approaches.

First time the forwards stayed narrow and they rained high ball down on him and that gave the forwards time to get to the pitch of the ball and negate his effectiveness. Tipp now have some physically imposing forwards to suppliment bonner Maher and DeBurca isn't the biggest to hold his own in these challenges.

Also at times on Sunday they sprayed the ball wide away from him with the forwards staying wide, but both approaches depend on the quality of the ball coming in and this is where Tipp have improved immensely. Paudie Maher has improved in this regard as well as the brother Ronan in centre back who can pick out their team mates up the park.
Waterford need a plan B for Tipp if they want to go any further.

As for Kilkenny, they've been crowding their defence for years, Big Brian Hogan didn't venture far from in front of his full back line with the midfielders coming in and closing down that space as well as the half forwards filtering into midfield which left huge spaces for their forwards to thrive on which they duly did.
Yes, they could win their own ball, but they'd also the likes of Eddie Brennan, TJ Reid and Richie Hogan hovering around anything that broke off and bombing goal bound.
If Kilkenny can get TJ Reid, Hogan and the Fennelly's firing they'll be in the shake up, but big Walter will need to shake off the winter coat and do a bit more for the team.
Time to put Paul Murphy at 3 and Padraig Walsh at 6 IMO.
TJ Reid needs to stop taking the ball into contact and continuously looking to draw a free

he was a much better player before he put on all that extra muscle
He's that fond of the gym work now that he's openned his own i hear.