Kilkenny v Tipp

[mouview]

Best final I have ever seen and I was delighted to see that last free go wide to give us another match. I thought that Barry Kelly was harsh on kk to be honest, Eoin Larkin should have been awarded a free early in the match and both penalties were wrongly awarded considering that the offences were outside the box, therefore justice was done when they were both missed. Only 2 players have scored penalties now since the rule was amended, joe canning and Patrick Horgan so it is possible to score them even if the advantage to the fouled team is less now. I thought that Eddie Brennan was stupid to come out with his comments about Kelly though even if there is an element of truth about it. It came across all parochial and his objectivity would be questioned now IMHO .I would fully expect kk to win the replay now, with a different ref and so many players who can improve from Sundays display. Both fennellys and wally Walsh were poor in my opinion so expect to see changes there for the replay. Huge credit to tipp though, the players who had not really lit it up before the final, lar, noel mc grath, played well along with bubbles and seamus callinan. Bonner doesn't have a bad game ever it seems and if he ever got injured you'd have to worry about tipp. I would love to attend the replay as the atmosphere will be truly amazing but the match won't live up to the standards of the first one, I would say. Roll on sept 27th.

How much improvement is in KK though? Walter Walsh almost certainly won't start, Holden may not, 2 Fennellys almost certainly will, would expect Padraig Walsh and Taggy Fogarty to come in.  What does that leave on the bench for them? An ageing, and increasingly irrelevant Shefflin, Tommy Walsh whom Cody doesn't seem to trust, ditto Lester Ryan. Not a lot of great cover for an ageing and tiring defence there. Reid, Richie Hogan and Richie Power all played excellently but can they play any better, or can the rest of them up it either? Personally, I don't think they can and that they're creaking, but Cody is a master at problem-solving so maybe.

[AZOffaly]

I actually thought Richie Power was poor. I know he got 2-1, but in general play I thought he was well handled. He got a lovely point out under the Cusack, and finished his goals well, but I think he could be a lot more involved on another day.

[gallsman]

Question about the free the ref gave against the tipp keeper for lifting the ball in the square.  From watching it  barry seemed to blow his whistle for a free out but then went in to his umpires for a word. He then gave the free to kilkenny.  My question is did he reverse his decision and if he did was he allowed to?  Growing up we were always told not to slabber at refs because they couldnt change a decision they had made.

He only bothered to consult with umpires after Power started screaming about it - while ultimately "right", he definitely shouldn't be getting influenced by players. Was as clear as day, dunno what Gleeson thought he was doing.

[johnneycool]

Question about the free the ref gave against the tipp keeper for lifting the ball in the square.  From watching it  barry seemed to blow his whistle for a free out but then went in to his umpires for a word. He then gave the free to kilkenny.  My question is did he reverse his decision and if he did was he allowed to?  Growing up we were always told not to slabber at refs because they couldnt change a decision they had made.

He only bothered to consult with umpires after Power started screaming about it - while ultimately "right", he definitely shouldn't be getting influenced by players. Was as clear as day, dunno what Gleeson thought he was doing.

Panicking I think is what it is called. I think he's a bit of a weak link when the ball is in and around him, decent enough shot stopper, but a bit ropey with a ball and opponent in close proximity.

Have Kilkenny scope for improvement? Well yes they do, think of the goal chances they scuppered, Colin Fennelly trying to flick it to his brother when it was there for him to take on himself, maybe a lack of belief that you wouldn't normally associate with kilkenny forwards like Brennan, Shefflin and DJ. As well as the one Gleeson fumbled and Reid failed to capitalise.
If they had gone in then it was a very different game, so yes they've scope as a good few players were off the pace a bit.
I'd expect Cody to go with a bit more pace, with young Paudie Walsh either in the half back line or midfield depending on the fitness of Richie Hogan, possibly Fogarty as well although he didn't do a whole pile when he was on.
I'd still expect the high ball in and around the square to be deployed by Cody, but big Walter won't be the man they're dropping in on as I think his stickwork is pretty poor and not conducive to the close confines of there, he needs a bit of space to get that stroke away normally after a big shove off the defender. I'd be surprised if he starts.
Cody also used a young corner back in the league who'd a bit of speed about him, Kennedy who seems to have fallen back a bit in the rankings but he looked decent enough, he might replace Holden or drop Conor Fogarty back into a more familiar role, who'd know with Cody.

Can the Tipp forwards have the same rate of efficiency the next day out?

[gallsman]

Question about the free the ref gave against the tipp keeper for lifting the ball in the square.  From watching it  barry seemed to blow his whistle for a free out but then went in to his umpires for a word. He then gave the free to kilkenny.  My question is did he reverse his decision and if he did was he allowed to?  Growing up we were always told not to slabber at refs because they couldnt change a decision they had made.

He only bothered to consult with umpires after Power started screaming about it - while ultimately "right", he definitely shouldn't be getting influenced by players. Was as clear as day, dunno what Gleeson thought he was doing.

Panicking I think is what it is called. I think he's a bit of a weak link when the ball is in and around him, decent enough shot stopper, but a bit ropey with a ball and opponent in close proximity.

Have Kilkenny scope for improvement? Well yes they do, think of the goal chances they scuppered, Colin Fennelly trying to flick it to his brother when it was there for him to take on himself, maybe a lack of belief that you wouldn't normally associate with kilkenny forwards like Brennan, Shefflin and DJ. As well as the one Gleeson fumbled and Reid failed to capitalise.
If they had gone in then it was a very different game, so yes they've scope as a good few players were off the pace a bit.
I'd expect Cody to go with a bit more pace, with young Paudie Walsh either in the half back line or midfield depending on the fitness of Richie Hogan, possibly Fogarty as well although he didn't do a whole pile when he was on.
I'd still expect the high ball in and around the square to be deployed by Cody, but big Walter won't be the man they're dropping in on as I think his stickwork is pretty poor and not conducive to the close confines of there, he needs a bit of space to get that stroke away normally after a big shove off the defender. I'd be surprised if he starts.
Cody also used a young corner back in the league who'd a bit of speed about him, Kennedy who seems to have fallen back a bit in the rankings but he looked decent enough, he might replace Holden or drop Conor Fogarty back into a more familiar role, who'd know with Cody.

Can the Tipp forwards have the same rate of efficiency the next day out?

On the contrary, I think Walsh's stick work is excellent, especially so for a man of his size. Despite his size, he's not suited to being a target man. Doesn't always come out the best in the physical match ups.

I'd say Holden and W. Walsh might drop out with Joyce and either P. Walsh or Henry starting. Colin Fennelly might just hang on to his place. Assuming he's fit, think Cody will persist with Hogan at midfield ahead of Fennelly but will be quick to swap them if not going well early.

[AZOffaly]

Jesus the worst collision I ever saw on a hurling field was a couple of years (maybe last year) in Thurles when Kilkenny hurled Galway in the league. Walter Walsh absolutely wrote off Fergal Moore. It was a scary, scary collision, and I thought Moore was badly broke up. Walsh never flinched. I'd say the physical stuff would be well up his alley.

[gallsman]

Jesus the worst collision I ever saw on a hurling field was a couple of years (maybe last year) in Thurles when Kilkenny hurled Galway in the league. Walter Walsh absolutely wrote off Fergal Moore. It was a scary, scary collision, and I thought Moore was badly broke up. Walsh never flinched. I'd say the physical stuff would be well up his alley.

Paudie Maher handled him without too much bother at times on Sunday.

Not much was made of Gleeson clattering Larkin in the second half:

a) He came out feet first - is this legal?
b) One of the replays on TSG suggested Larkin's hurl reached the sliotar first, but not sure. If so, then surely a foul?

[AZOffaly]

In fairness Paudie Maher is a fairly big lad himself. I think Walter Walsh on the half forward line on Bergin or Brendan Maher would cause Tipp more problems.

[johnneycool]

Question about the free the ref gave against the tipp keeper for lifting the ball in the square.  From watching it  barry seemed to blow his whistle for a free out but then went in to his umpires for a word. He then gave the free to kilkenny.  My question is did he reverse his decision and if he did was he allowed to?  Growing up we were always told not to slabber at refs because they couldnt change a decision they had made.

He only bothered to consult with umpires after Power started screaming about it - while ultimately "right", he definitely shouldn't be getting influenced by players. Was as clear as day, dunno what Gleeson thought he was doing.

Panicking I think is what it is called. I think he's a bit of a weak link when the ball is in and around him, decent enough shot stopper, but a bit ropey with a ball and opponent in close proximity.

Have Kilkenny scope for improvement? Well yes they do, think of the goal chances they scuppered, Colin Fennelly trying to flick it to his brother when it was there for him to take on himself, maybe a lack of belief that you wouldn't normally associate with kilkenny forwards like Brennan, Shefflin and DJ. As well as the one Gleeson fumbled and Reid failed to capitalise.
If they had gone in then it was a very different game, so yes they've scope as a good few players were off the pace a bit.
I'd expect Cody to go with a bit more pace, with young Paudie Walsh either in the half back line or midfield depending on the fitness of Richie Hogan, possibly Fogarty as well although he didn't do a whole pile when he was on.
I'd still expect the high ball in and around the square to be deployed by Cody, but big Walter won't be the man they're dropping in on as I think his stickwork is pretty poor and not conducive to the close confines of there, he needs a bit of space to get that stroke away normally after a big shove off the defender. I'd be surprised if he starts.
Cody also used a young corner back in the league who'd a bit of speed about him, Kennedy who seems to have fallen back a bit in the rankings but he looked decent enough, he might replace Holden or drop Conor Fogarty back into a more familiar role, who'd know with Cody.

Can the Tipp forwards have the same rate of efficiency the next day out?

On the contrary, I think Walsh's stick work is excellent, especially so for a man of his size. Despite his size, he's not suited to being a target man. Doesn't always come out the best in the physical match ups.

I'd say Holden and W. Walsh might drop out with Joyce and either P. Walsh or Henry starting. Colin Fennelly might just hang on to his place. Assuming he's fit, think Cody will persist with Hogan at midfield ahead of Fennelly but will be quick to swap them if not going well early.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I think he's very slow at getting the stroke away at that level.

TBH, I thought he was pretty quick over the ground when chasing down a ball into the corner of the Cusack and Canal end with Cathal Barrett who's no slouch.

[gallsman]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I think he's very slow at getting the stroke away at that level.

TBH, I thought he was pretty quick over the ground when chasing down a ball into the corner of the Cusack and Canal end with Cathal Barrett who's no slouch.

He's no slouch and anyone who dismissed him a Micheal Webster type lumbering oaf was fairly taught a lesson by what he did to Galway in 2012. By all accounts he's been flying in training all summer - the KK lads in Meagher's before the semi-final were shocked he wasn't starting.

I just think for all the size and skill of him he could be an awful lot more dominant. When you have Richie Hogan and, to a lesser extent, Paul Murphy as relatively small lads on the field who are renowned for their ability to win high ball, I think this is somewhere you'd want to see Walsh shine.

[theskull1]

I just think for all the size and skill of him he could be an awful lot more dominant. When you have Richie Hogan and, to a lesser extent, Paul Murphy as relatively small lads on the field who are renowned for their ability to win high ball, I think this is somewhere you'd want to see Walsh shine.

I think it was quite striking just how poor walter was under the dropping ball. There was a few times he was a yard in front of where he should have been. I'd be in agreement with JC. Of course if he danced onto the right ball he'd be hard to stop, but he's lacking in quick footwork and stickwork AFAICS limiting his potential to be a threat. Right half forward would suit him better I think if he was to play anywhere

[cicfada]

Jesus the worst collision I ever saw on a hurling field was a couple of years (maybe last year) in Thurles when Kilkenny hurled Galway in the league. Walter Walsh absolutely wrote off Fergal Moore. It was a scary, scary collision, and I thought Moore was badly broke up. Walsh never flinched. I'd say the physical stuff would be well up his alley.

I wad at that match and remember the sight of fergals mother running onto the pitch to see her son. I also remember the comment from a prominent kk official at half time to the Galway board chairman.....after inquiring as to his well being, he said that Moore had. "Looked for it" . A poor comment from him considering the way Moore was brought off to hospital. Walsh has had 1 good match for the cats and that's the replay 2 years ago. He's done nothing since in my opinion and I would expect Padraig Walsh and or taggy  Fogarty to play the next time.

[johnneycool]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I think he's very slow at getting the stroke away at that level.

TBH, I thought he was pretty quick over the ground when chasing down a ball into the corner of the Cusack and Canal end with Cathal Barrett who's no slouch.

He's no slouch and anyone who dismissed him a Micheal Webster type lumbering oaf was fairly taught a lesson by what he did to Galway in 2012. By all accounts he's been flying in training all summer - the KK lads in Meagher's before the semi-final were shocked he wasn't starting.

I just think for all the size and skill of him he could be an awful lot more dominant. When you have Richie Hogan and, to a lesser extent, Paul Murphy as relatively small lads on the field who are renowned for their ability to win high ball, I think this is somewhere you'd want to see Walsh shine.

What Cody did with him in the replay against Galway was put him directly on Johnny Coen (who'd a stormer in the drawn game running onto loose ball and generally cleaning everything up) and pumped high ball down on top of him. Coen wasn't strong enough in the air to catch with him and big Walter gave him the big shove to pop over a few points on his right side.
Ever since then everyone has worked him out, even if he does catch it, don't get too close and be there for the block or flick when he tries to get that slow stroke away. I watched him catch at least three balls off Brendan Bugler in a league game on TG4 during the spring, but Bugler never let him hit any of the three before he was called ashore.

Did he catch much ball on Sunday? I think maybe one that I can think of.

I'm only judging him on what I see, but I don't get to see him training so maybe his is flying there, but its not transferring to big games, which he hasn't started too many of this year.

[seafoid]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I think he's very slow at getting the stroke away at that level.

TBH, I thought he was pretty quick over the ground when chasing down a ball into the corner of the Cusack and Canal end with Cathal Barrett who's no slouch.

He's no slouch and anyone who dismissed him a Micheal Webster type lumbering oaf was fairly taught a lesson by what he did to Galway in 2012. By all accounts he's been flying in training all summer - the KK lads in Meagher's before the semi-final were shocked he wasn't starting.

I just think for all the size and skill of him he could be an awful lot more dominant. When you have Richie Hogan and, to a lesser extent, Paul Murphy as relatively small lads on the field who are renowned for their ability to win high ball, I think this is somewhere you'd want to see Walsh shine.

What Cody did with him in the replay against Galway was put him directly on Johnny Coen (who'd a stormer in the drawn game running onto loose ball and generally cleaning everything up) and pumped high ball down on top of him. Coen wasn't strong enough in the air to catch with him and big Walter gave him the big shove to pop over a few points on his right side.
Ever since then everyone has worked him out, even if he does catch it, don't get too close and be there for the block or flick when he tries to get that slow stroke away. I watched him catch at least three balls off Brendan Bugler in a league game on TG4 during the spring, but Bugler never let him hit any of the three before he was called ashore.

Did he catch much ball on Sunday? I think maybe one that I can think of.

I'm only judging him on what I see, but I don't get to see him training so maybe his is flying there, but its not transferring to big games, which he hasn't started too many of this year.

Did he not start shining after Donnellan got sent off ?

[Milltown Row2]

Jesus the worst collision I ever saw on a hurling field was a couple of years (maybe last year) in Thurles when Kilkenny hurled Galway in the league. Walter Walsh absolutely wrote off Fergal Moore. It was a scary, scary collision, and I thought Moore was badly broke up. Walsh never flinched. I'd say the physical stuff would be well up his alley.

Paudie Maher handled him without too much bother at times on Sunday.

Not much was made of Gleeson clattering Larkin in the second half:

a) He came out feet first - is this legal?
b) One of the replays on TSG suggested Larkin's hurl reached the sliotar first, but not sure. If so, then surely a foul?

Clearly got the ball as the direction of the ball clearly showed before looking at the replay, wasn't really feet first, he (in my book) did rightly. Larkin was fine, tried to milk it a bit me thinks

Watched it all again tonight, as I'd a few more beers than I should have by the final whistle!! serious scoring but great defending also!!

What time is the replay?