Kilkenny v Tipp

[orangeman]

Didn't get to see replay or highlights of game but I thought the ref got the last free spot on.

By the way the sliotar is far too light for the modern game and scoring far too easy. Really have to either make it bigger or heavier imo.

For penalties there should be only the goalie on the line with the current "Nash Rule" kept.

You might have a different view when you review it.

Sligo that is very light - the minors were scoring from very long distances as well. 2 men on the line for a penalty might be the answer.

I wouldn't go along with those who say that KK defence deliberately pulled down Tipp attackers.

[north_antrim_hound]

I'm glad for everybody's sake that O'Dwyer's free tailed wide. It would not have been a fitting end to what can only be described as an epic.

Eddie did take a bit of a cheap shot at Barry Kelly last night. The free he didn't give Eoin Larkin was mind boggling.

There was no call for Eddie to say that, although Kelly was initially pretty hard on Eoin Larkin and you got the feeling that he'd earmarked Larkin as a bit of a diver and his judgement was a bit clouded.
Tipp defenders do have a habit of throwing out the spare arm, and got away with a few yesterday, but that's all too common in hurling today by all teams.
The last free was a strange one, did he blow Hogan up for charging as that's the only thing I could think off?
Although initially I thought overcarrying, but on replay he didn't and released the ball as soon as he hit the deck.

Apart from that I think Kelly got far more right than he did wrong and allowed a lot of niggly stuff go and kept the game as high paced as was allowed. He's certainly improved as a ref from his early days blowing every farts end in the NHL Div2.

As highlighted by the RTE panel, the selection of Walter Walsh meant the high ball would be pumped into what must have been perceived a weakish Tipp fullback line under the high ball. TBH it was a tactic that did work to an extent but KK fluffed a few very good goal opportunities before TJ Reid did finally set up Richie Power for the deft little flick over Gleeson, very tidy piece of hurling to take that goal. Also the way Reid who initially was well marshalled by Barry, who had him where he wanted him, was on his catching arm as the ball was dropping only for Reid to spin behind him and come up on the other side where Reid had the advantage and take the ball as it dropped, crafty bollox.
At the other end Tipp were running the KK backs all over the place (something KK would be better known for) and were getting their match ups right with Bonner Maher picked up by all and sundry until it was decided that Paul Murphy would do the best job on him, and whilst Murphy did well Bonner Maher was still causing problems and dangerous throughout, some horse of a man for one man.
That battle was a microcosm of other battles all over the pitch, one man on top, then the opponent and so on, Paudie Maher was lording it for a while, then came Richie Hogan, rattled over a few points off him, then the change to bring on Mickey Cahill to do a marking job, very interesting game all the way through.
Thought Lar and big Callanan also contributed well and Lar was set to get a goal and nearly succeeded where it looked as if no goal chance was on. He exercised some of the demons from his last AI against KK, but they won't be fully exercised until the win is achieved in three weeks time.

Tipp won many battles yesterday, midfield being one area, and their defence were sound if still a bit susceptible to the high ball in and around the square, plus were picking off a lot of nice scores in their forwards throughout.
Cody and KK in my mind have more to mull over especially if Richie Hogan is struggling with an injury. The goals kept them in it when it looked like Tipp would pull away near the end of the first half, but no better man to pick the bones out of this game and come up with solutions than Cody.

The Larkin thing happened right in front of me. 100 percent dive. He's been doing it all year so kelly has him sussed

Didn't see the hogan free that well at match but seen it on TV. He went on safari down the middle looked up and charged then dived
Two great decisions form a ref I didn't have much time for to yesterday
If Cody or whoever hadn't of got willie o connor to influence the ref via the national press all week he might have been different

Your right the tipp boys where using the spare arm
But so where Kilkenny backs on bonner
He was letting it go so no biggy
Best game I ever watched. Nobody deserved to lose

[Roashter]

On the penalties debate, for me anyways:-
The first penalty was a penalty. Maher was fouled outside the square and he made it into the square where the defender continued to foul him so I would argue that ref gave advantage until he got into the square and then blew for a penalty.
The 2nd penalty, foul was outside and penalty should not have been awarded. Corbett's momentum propelled him well into the square by the time he hit the deck.
Both penaltys where poorly hit and easily saved.

On the sunday game, wasn't overly keen on Brennan bringing up the Kelly last 6 games for Kilkenny and then trying to say that it wasn't something he had an issue with.
Also, for years we've heard the phrase "Cody doesn't do sentiment", yet Shefflin came on with 66 minutes gone and Kilkenny 3 points up -didn't touch the ball and Kilkenny almost lost the game. I'm not saying it was Shefflins fault but surely there was a question mark over making this substitution when the game was in the melting pot?

Anyways, really looking forward to the replay now. Still no idea who is going to win.

[AZOffaly]

Fantastic excitement, great day and a brilliant occasion. I know it's cliche to say no team deserved to lose, and they probably didn't, but I'd love to have seen Hawkeye say 'Score' at the end there

At the game, sometimes it's hard to analyse specific incidents in it from the stand, especially a hectic one like that, but I suppose a couple of points for me are

1 - Tipperary will have to be happy with the amount of goal chances they created. On another day Bonner, Corbett and Callinan would all have seen their shots rattle the net. Murphy was excellent, but I think Tipp will feel that if they create anything like that again, they will be in good shape.

2 - Lar Corbett, Seamus Callinan and John O'Dwyer stood up today and won ball, scored and made great runs. When it was slipping away, Lar came out the field and won some great ball, set up chances and set up points. Fair play to Callinan as well. JJ Delaney will beat him up a stick if the ball is pucked down on top of him, but when he gets those long legs moving out to the side, he proved he can get ball, and score.

3 - Paul Murphy and Bonner Maher was worth the admission fee alone. Almost a mirror opposite of the Callinan/JJ duel, in that every ball that came down between them, you fancied Bonner. When they had to move towards it, Murphy won most of them well.

4 - Kelly had a decent game I thought, although Kilkenny definitely had some cause for complaint with some of the decisions. Not bad as such, but contentious. I saw the Hogan free last night, and I agree with Kelly. At the game I thought Paudie cleaned him out, but last night I can see why Kelly gave it. Paudie seems to have stood his ground and Hogan turned the shoulder into him. That said, Paudie's arms came up and could have been seen as a shove. This really could have gone either way. I'd say Barry was happy it went wide I couldn't believe Kieron Bergins challenge on Larkin wasn't a foul, it looked like a bloody helicopter challenge. I think you are right about Larkin's card being marked because Kelly pulled him for diving early on and it looked harsh too.

5 - Richie Hogan is some operator as well. Floats around, picks up ball and scores. Simple as. Great player.

6 - TJ Reid caused trouble, and is another deadly player when he gets a chance. The goal was typical Kilkenny.

7 - When Tipp run at Kilkenny, a lá Lar, Bonner and Callinan, they are in big trouble. When Kilkenny do the same, it's likewise. Winning ball has never been more vital.

8 - Noel McGrath looked like he was going to have a nightmare. In the first half when he took way too long to clear a ball in midfield, and got hooked, as well as hit a bad wide, I thought he was gone. Credit to him for standing up and hitting some important scores later on. He's a grand lad, and really dedicated. It's hard to see him struggling but it was great to see him come into it. Hopefully he'll play well in the replay.

9 - Finally, at the game, I thought there were some outstanding defensive performances from Cathal Barrett, Paddy Stapleton (barring one brain fart),  JJ Delaney, Paul Murphy etc etc. To see the scoreboard at the end just shows that the attackers were absolutely deadly when they got chances.

10 - The Replay will be interesting again. Tipp got an awful lot right, and had good showings from the likes of Lar, Noel McGrath, Callinan, O'Dwyer. Will they do that again the next day? Will Mick Fennelly and Ritchie Power be as peripheral again for Kilkenny? Hard to see that. Will Ritchie Hogan be fit?

Great days to be alive.

[AZOffaly]

Shite, nearly forgot, on the penalties, I think both were struck poorly. Bubbles clearly paced out his, so I don't think the new rule 'constrained' his swing as such. He just went for low and hard and didn't really get the 'hard' part.

I think, at this stage, a 1 v 1 from 20 metres out with the keeper is the best solution. The Keeper normally goes out in front of the defenders anyway, so I'd say let it be more like a Football penalty. I'm glad the Nash rule came in because someone was going to be hurt badly, but people who say it's gotten a lot harder to score one are probably right.

[orangeman]

Fantastic excitement, great day and a brilliant occasion. I know it's cliche to say no team deserved to lose, and they probably didn't, but I'd love to have seen Hawkeye say 'Score' at the end there

At the game, sometimes it's hard to analyse specific incidents in it from the stand, especially a hectic one like that, but I suppose a couple of points for me are

1 - Tipperary will have to be happy with the amount of goal chances they created. On another day Bonner, Corbett and Callinan would all have seen their shots rattle the net. Murphy was excellent, but I think Tipp will feel that if they create anything like that again, they will be in good shape.

2 - Lar Corbett, Seamus Callinan and John O'Dwyer stood up today and won ball, scored and made great runs. When it was slipping away, Lar came out the field and won some great ball, set up chances and set up points. Fair play to Callinan as well. JJ Delaney will beat him up a stick if the ball is pucked down on top of him, but when he gets those long legs moving out to the side, he proved he can get ball, and score.

3 - Paul Murphy and Bonner Maher was worth the admission fee alone. Almost a mirror opposite of the Callinan/JJ duel, in that every ball that came down between them, you fancied Bonner. When they had to move towards it, Murphy won most of them well.

4 - Kelly had a decent game I thought, although Kilkenny definitely had some cause for complaint with some of the decisions. Not bad as such, but contentious. I saw the Hogan free last night, and I agree with Kelly. At the game I thought Paudie cleaned him out, but last night I can see why Kelly gave it. Paudie seems to have stood his ground and Hogan turned the shoulder into him. That said, Paudie's arms came up and could have been seen as a shove. This really could have gone either way. I'd say Barry was happy it went wide I couldn't believe Kieron Bergins challenge on him wasn't a foul, it looked like a bloody helicopter challenge. I think you are right about Larkin's card being marked because Kelly pulled him for diving early on and it looked harsh too.

5 - Richie Hogan is some operator as well. Floats around, picks up ball and scores. Simple as. Great player.

6 - TJ Reid caused trouble, and is another deadly player when he gets a chance. The goal was typical Kilkenny.

7 - When Tipp run at Kilkenny, a lá Lar, Bonner and Callinan, they are in big trouble. When Kilkenny do the same, it's likewise. Winning ball has never been more vital.

8 - Noel McGrath looked like he was going to have a nightmare. In the first half when he took way to long to clear a ball in midfield, and got hooked, as well as hit a bad wide, I thought he was gone. Credit to him for standing up and hitting some important scores later on. He's a grand lad, and really dedicated. It's hard to see him struggling but it was great to see him come into it. Hopefully he'll play well in the replay.

9 - Finally, at the game, I thought there were some outstanding defensive performances from Cathal Barrett, Paddy Stapleton (barring one brain fart),  JJ Delaney, Paul Murphy etc etc. To see the scoreboard at the end just shows that the attackers were absolutely deadly when they got chances.

10 - The Replay will be interesting again. Tipp got an awful lot right, and had good showings from the likes of Lar, Noel McGrath, Callinan, O'Dwyer. Will they do that again the next day? Will Mick Fennelly and Ritchie Power be as peripheral again for Kilkenny? Hard to see that. Will Ritchie Hogan be fit?

Great days to be alive.

I thought the same - but with Peter Mc Kenna on Hawk eye it was never going to be given.

Colin Fennelly was subbed yesterday. He'll not be as bad again.

I don't know what it was but there were a good few sloppy / intercepted passes and ones that went over the line but this could be seen as nit picking given the absolutely incredibly high standard of play. The skill level was ridiculous. Power's goals were as Donal Og said a thing of beauty.

[waterfordlad]

Fantastic game and I'm glad it was a draw as it would have been a shame if Tipp had won with that free at the end as it was a dubious decision and would have caused a lot of controversy if that decided a classic game. Plenty replays in hurling and football this year.

[gallsman]

I thought the same - but with Peter Mc Kenna on Hawk eye it was never going to be given.

Was given as wide because it was wide, nothing more! What should cause more ire was the fact that the last free was given around the 69.25 mark and at that point, a minute's additional time was called for. Bubbles took his time over the free, then we had Hawkeye for 20 or 30 seconds yet somehow the match was over.

Overall, just thought it was an incredible final. Better than '09 and last year, which were the two best in my memory.

Think KK have more room for improvement heading into the final as every single Tipp player showed up whereas KK had a few average performances. Richie Hogan's fitness could be a huge turning point though. Some very sloppy play from a few KK players. Think Cillian Buckley hand passed it out over the sideline twice. Not sure about Buckley at LHB. He always seems to strike his clearances on the back foot at a trajectory that sends the sliotar way up into the clouds and take away from the pace of the attack, Remarkable to say that Richie Power was quiet and still managed 2-1, both of the goals being sensational, although Gleeson should have been out to close the angle. He should have had another simple point and that decision to pass inside will be one he regrets for a while if they don't win the replay.

On the officiating - challenge on Larkin a clear foul. Larkin was inside him and away and was wrapped around the midriff and cleaned out of it. Hogan charged in my book but by Kelly's gesture, I thought he gave the free for a dive, similar to what he did to Larkin in the first half. Don't think you can give a dive just because someone hits the deck. These men are 6'2 or 6'3 and 14st and charging at each other full pelt. Of course they'll get flattened. Some of the earlier decisions to go to Hawkeye were remarkable. The Fennelly point was two feet inside the post ffs. Neither foul for the penalties was inside the box. Contrary to an earlier statement, Murphy did not continue to foul inside the box - when they were both on the ground he was still outside and Maher was just inside. How Kelly missed Gleeson fouling the ball I'll never know. As clear as daylight and only asked his umpires when he saw how furious Power was about it that there had to be something to it. Stapleton pulled the visor - end of discussion. They've been clamping down all year and to miss it on the biggest day of the lot didn't look good.

Of the debate around the "Nash rule", I'd like to see TJ hit a few before we decide that the advantage now lies with the defenders. Both penatlies yesterday were shite strikes which was far more contributory to them being saved than the distance from where they were struck. If a penalty was struck from the 21 the way TJ struck his shot for the goal I think you'd see plenty scored. Of more concern should be the blatant fouling by all players in lifting the ball for both frees and penalties. It's meant to be a jab or a roll and flick. Far too many players are getting away with balancing ball on the bas for a step to improve their strike.

[AZOffaly]

I thought the same - but with Peter Mc Kenna on Hawk eye it was never going to be given.

Was given as wide because it was wide, nothing more!

Correct, and isn't it great to have it? Imagine if the umpire was swayed by the Tipp crowd behind the goals and gave it?

Of more concern should be the blatant fouling by all players in lifting the ball for both frees and penalties. It's meant to be a jab or a roll and flick. Far too many players are getting away with balancing ball on the bas for a step to improve their strike.

that's going on with years. I remember DJ and Nicky English being accused of the same thing.

[gallsman]

Of more concern should be the blatant fouling by all players in lifting the ball for both frees and penalties. It's meant to be a jab or a roll and flick. Far too many players are getting away with balancing ball on the bas for a step to improve their strike.

that's going on with years. I remember DJ and Nicky English being accused of the same thing.

Oh I don't dispute that - just pointing out that having debates about the Nash penalties for safety reasons (I don't buy that argument) particularly en vogue when some of the fundamentals of the game (by players at top level, thus setting the model for youngsters) are ignored to the point that everyone fouls the balls. Keepers striking placed balls with keeper hurls shoud be banned.

[AZOffaly]

You don't buy that Nash's penalties were dangerous?

[gallsman]

You don't buy that Nash's penalties were dangerous?

No more so than TJ's rocket yesterday. Other than a bruising or getting the stuffing knocked out of you, the only real danger I can see is taking a strike like that to the bollocks. If Gleeson's had been in the way of TJ's, they'd be in an awful lot of trouble. How do you regulate that?

Make Nash take the penalty with regular hurl and you reduce the velocity first.

[AZOffaly]

If you are supposed to stand 'static' on the line, and I can throw a ball in the air approx 7 metres, and strike it at full force, unopposed, right at the adams apple or the nads, I think that's fairly dangerous.

[gallsman]

If you are supposed to stand 'static' on the line, and I can throw a ball in the air approx 7 metres, and strike it at full force, unopposed, right at the adams apple or the nads, I think that's fairly dangerous.

When it comes off the sweet spot though, that'll always be the case, in traffic or not. TJ's shot could potentially have had the same effect if Gleeson had been unlucky enough to take it full force. Letting players strike it with the bigger bas and ramping up the velocity accordingly is more dangerous that the distance in my book accordingly.

It's a game where thirty lads flail three foot pieces of wood about the place for seventy minutes. Nobody wears cups, shin pads and only a few continue to wear ash guards (although after what happened Michael Rice maybe they should be looked at as compulsory). It's a dangerous sport full stop, that's part of what makes it so exciting. I think 7/8 yards difference in from where a placed ball is struck is relatively down the list of safety issues in the game. Correct the fouls when lifting the ball and you wouldn't have too many able to move a 21 yard free in to the 13 and still get a god strike off.

[orangeman]

I thought the same - but with Peter Mc Kenna on Hawk eye it was never going to be given.

Was given as wide because it was wide, nothing more! What should cause more ire was the fact that the last free was given around the 69.25 mark and at that point, a minute's additional time was called for. Bubbles took his time over the free, then we had Hawkeye for 20 or 30 seconds yet somehow the match was over.

Overall, just thought it was an incredible final. Better than '09 and last year, which were the two best in my memory.

Think KK have more room for improvement heading into the final as every single Tipp player showed up whereas KK had a few average performances. Richie Hogan's fitness could be a huge turning point though. Some very sloppy play from a few KK players. Think Cillian Buckley hand passed it out over the sideline twice. Not sure about Buckley at LHB. He always seems to strike his clearances on the back foot at a trajectory that sends the sliotar way up into the clouds and take away from the pace of the attack, Remarkable to say that Richie Power was quiet and still managed 2-1, both of the goals being sensational, although Gleeson should have been out to close the angle. He should have had another simple point and that decision to pass inside will be one he regrets for a while if they don't win the replay.

On the officiating - challenge on Larkin a clear foul. Larkin was inside him and away and was wrapped around the midriff and cleaned out of it. Hogan charged in my book but by Kelly's gesture, I thought he gave the free for a dive, similar to what he did to Larkin in the first half. Don't think you can give a dive just because someone hits the deck. These men are 6'2 or 6'3 and 14st and charging at each other full pelt. Of course they'll get flattened. Some of the earlier decisions to go to Hawkeye were remarkable. The Fennelly point was two feet inside the post ffs. Neither foul for the penalties was inside the box. Contrary to an earlier statement, Murphy did not continue to foul inside the box - when they were both on the ground he was still outside and Maher was just inside. How Kelly missed Gleeson fouling the ball I'll never know. As clear as daylight and only asked his umpires when he saw how furious Power was about it that there had to be something to it. Stapleton pulled the visor - end of discussion. They've been clamping down all year and to miss it on the biggest day of the lot didn't look good.

Of the debate around the "Nash rule", I'd like to see TJ hit a few before we decide that the advantage now lies with the defenders. Both penatlies yesterday were shite strikes which was far more contributory to them being saved than the distance from where they were struck. If a penalty was struck from the 21 the way TJ struck his shot for the goal I think you'd see plenty scored. Of more concern should be the blatant fouling by all players in lifting the ball for both frees and penalties. It's meant to be a jab or a roll and flick. Far too many players are getting away with balancing ball on the bas for a step to improve their strike.

Only winding.