Galway v Kilkenny

[Reillers]

So would I be right in assuming Reillers that you reckon Cork would have more All Irelands if they were in Leinster?

Would you not agree that the lack of success of Galway,in recent years, is an illustration of how an easy route is most certainly not beneficial?

No, well that's neither here nor there.

Kilkenny for the past 3 years have been by far the better team, whether the cakewalk they've had for the past few years would have had any impact on them is unlikely, but it's the effect on their opposition that matters.
Do I think if say Kilkenny had been in Munster and Waterford had been in Leinster in 07 that they would have both been in the final and Waterford would have had a much better chance of winning the AI or running Kilkenny close, instead of falling against Limerick in the semi after a very long season to that point, yes, possibly.

I just think it would level the ground a bit. Kilkenny are better then anyone else at the minute, but if Kikenny had to play the same amount of competitive games like they do in Munster, instead of the likes of Dublin, Wexford..etc then I think things would even itself out a little more. It's hard enough trying to beat the best team on a normal day, but when you've had to play hard tiring games before hand while the other better team is able to time their peak, have their better players rested or recover from injuries and get good run outs against weaker teams, it makes it harder for the team that has to go and try and beat them.

[bottlethrower7]

So would I be right in assuming Reillers that you reckon Cork would have more All Irelands if they were in Leinster?

Would you not agree that the lack of success of Galway,in recent years, is an illustration of how an easy route is most certainly not beneficial?

No, well that's neither here nor there.

Kilkenny for the past 3 years have been by far the better team, whether the cakewalk they've had for the past few years would have had any impact on them is unlikely, but it's the effect on their opposition that matters.
Do I think if say Kilkenny had been in Munster and Waterford had been in Leinster in 07 that they would have both been in the final and Waterford would have had a much better chance of winning the AI or running Kilkenny close, instead of falling against Limerick in the semi after a very long season to that point, yes, possibly.

I just think it would level the ground a bit. Kilkenny are better then anyone else at the minute, but if Kikenny had to play the same amount of competitive games like they do in Munster, instead of the likes of Dublin, Wexford..etc then I think things would even itself out a little more. It's hard enough trying to beat the best team on a normal day, but when you've had to play hard tiring games before hand while the other better team is able to time their peak, have their better players rested or recover from injuries and get good run outs against weaker teams, it makes it harder for the team that has to go and try and beat them.

Its a double-edged sword though. On one hand Kilkenny would likely have reached less finals. On the other they'd probably have a far better return of those they contested. For example the Kilkenny team that contested the 1987 final was very weak. If they were in Munster they wouldn't have gotten near an all-Ireland final. And look how they were found out. But people never complained back then. Galway had it even easier sure. Only more recently did the complaining start.. And Leinster's demise is not Kilkenny's fault. It took a little while, but now the standard of the Munster championship is on a par with the rest of Leinster. So its as you were before all the complaining started.

[Reillers]

no Munster team can afford to time their peak, the only team that has the luxury of that is Kilkenny, and they've done it for years.

its not necessarily about 'timing' your peak though. Like, theres no button you can press that makes 'now' your peak time. Reaching your peak, how to do so, etc, differs from team to team. A settled side like Kilkenny will find themselves in more control of something like this than a side with a lot of new names like Limerick or the current Cork setup. Those teams, while I'm sure they'd rather a munster title, may be better off heading through the back door. The Cork side of 2004 won out because of the route they took to the final. Games fell at the right time and they were learning and developing as they went. They may not have had the benefit of what they learned through the back-door had they not had the extra games.

Anyone remember Clare throwing a Munster final? Dave Forde? 21-yard free? I do.

Kilkenny might not have gotten near the '04 final had Wexford not beaten them in Leinster that year. Actually I'm almost sure they wouldn't have. They were a team on the decline and, again, it was how and when games fell that enabled them go as far as they did.

In that context a team like Limerick might be better off through the back-door. Or even Cork or Clare. Waterford or Tipp are the only sides that I could see preferring the 'less' games route, being closer to being able to control when they peak.

The argument about Kilkenny getting a soft path to the final has not been valid for at the guts of 10 years now at this stage. If it were the case we'll no doubt start seeing Galway clearing up with all-Irelands over the next few years, seeing as they'll have pretty much the same path.

No I agree you can't "time" your peak, but you can aim for when you hope to peak and Cody is excellent at doing so.

Galway were put in Leinster for a reason, and it wasn't just to give Galway another shot, it was to try and level the competitive nature of the provincial championships.
If you're Tipp, and you've to play Cork, and then Waterford, one after the other and you want to go that direct route, and like you said, I think Cork will actually benefit this year with the backdoor for getting the young lads to click and Aisake back his touch and such, but no one really wants to have to go the back door unless you've a very unsettled side. But if you want to go the direct route which most want to, especially if you want to be challenging for an AI, then you need to be ready, all guns blazing at the start of June, not August like Kilkenny.

If you're Kilkenny, you're able to time almost the level of intensity you play at, building up and building it up, I mean Cody has it down to an art at this stage.
And like I said, it isn't a matter of Kilkenny only winning AI's because they get the soft route, they are the best and it probably doesn't have that much of an impact on them. But it's the impact it has on the likes of Tipp that will matter.

If you've to play hard competitive games all the way through to the final, with players not having much chance to recover and get rid of injuries, and not being able to look ahead to September, but only the next game in mind, it's going to impact on you're season. If you're Kilkenny and Shefflin gets injured and isn't 100% fit, they can afford to rest him for the Leinster game because they're not going to miss him at all against the likes of Dublin, but if you're Cork and Ben picks up a knock and isn't 100% fit, and you're to play Tipp, you can't afford to rest him, but then you run the risk of not having a fully fit Ben O Connor and possibly making the injury worse and loosing him for another game or so.

And then say you do get to the final, you've nothing much left in the tank, very little left to give, and you come up against a Kilkenny side who is not only better, but rested and ready, odds aren't going to be in your favour are they?

[Reillers]

So would I be right in assuming Reillers that you reckon Cork would have more All Irelands if they were in Leinster?

Would you not agree that the lack of success of Galway,in recent years, is an illustration of how an easy route is most certainly not beneficial?

No, well that's neither here nor there.

Kilkenny for the past 3 years have been by far the better team, whether the cakewalk they've had for the past few years would have had any impact on them is unlikely, but it's the effect on their opposition that matters.
Do I think if say Kilkenny had been in Munster and Waterford had been in Leinster in 07 that they would have both been in the final and Waterford would have had a much better chance of winning the AI or running Kilkenny close, instead of falling against Limerick in the semi after a very long season to that point, yes, possibly.

I just think it would level the ground a bit. Kilkenny are better then anyone else at the minute, but if Kikenny had to play the same amount of competitive games like they do in Munster, instead of the likes of Dublin, Wexford..etc then I think things would even itself out a little more. It's hard enough trying to beat the best team on a normal day, but when you've had to play hard tiring games before hand while the other better team is able to time their peak, have their better players rested or recover from injuries and get good run outs against weaker teams, it makes it harder for the team that has to go and try and beat them.

Its a double-edged sword though. On one hand Kilkenny would likely have reached less finals. On the other they'd probably have a far better return of those they contested. For example the Kilkenny team that contested the 1987 final was very weak. If they were in Munster they wouldn't have gotten near an all-Ireland final. And look how they were found out. But people never complained back then. Galway had it even easier sure. Only more recently did the complaining start.. And Leinster's demise is not Kilkenny's fault. It took a little while, but now the standard of the Munster championship is on a par with the rest of Leinster. So its as you were before all the complaining started.

But that was 87, I think we all know that it's much more professional at this stage, I mean most top teams are professional in everything but name at this stage. And like I've continually said, it's not a question of how good Kilkenny are or what impact it has on them, they are by far the better team, but it's the impact it has on the challenging team that matters.
I agree 100% in no way is Leinster's poor standard in anyway Kilkenny's fault. But as much as some Leinster type try to say so, Munster is still much better then the level of teams in Leinster, and I think the fact that Galway were moved in there says a lot.

[slow corner back]

Never mind all this munster v leinster palavar are we now saying that Kilkenny will field this weekend without Brian Hogan, Michael Kavanagh and Noel Hickey? If we are then that is a serious blow to any team no matter how good the panel. Hickey has been the best full back in ireland for at least five years and Kavanagh has been nailed on in corner back for 11 years. Bound to be a severe blow to loose them. Add on the fact that JJ Delany will now have to move to full back most likely and the cats have lost 2 outa 3 from the full back line and 2 outa 3 from the half back line that won the all ireland last year. The cats defensive strength in depth will be severly tested by this, last time they were this weak defensivly they lost to Galway when Niall Healy got a hat trick of goals. The odds on Galway winning this match must have shortened considerably.

[INDIANA]

So would I be right in assuming Reillers that you reckon Cork would have more All Irelands if they were in Leinster?

Would you not agree that the lack of success of Galway,in recent years, is an illustration of how an easy route is most certainly not beneficial?

No, well that's neither here nor there.

Kilkenny for the past 3 years have been by far the better team, whether the cakewalk they've had for the past few years would have had any impact on them is unlikely, but it's the effect on their opposition that matters.
Do I think if say Kilkenny had been in Munster and Waterford had been in Leinster in 07 that they would have both been in the final and Waterford would have had a much better chance of winning the AI or running Kilkenny close, instead of falling against Limerick in the semi after a very long season to that point, yes, possibly.

I just think it would level the ground a bit. Kilkenny are better then anyone else at the minute, but if Kikenny had to play the same amount of competitive games like they do in Munster, instead of the likes of Dublin, Wexford..etc then I think things would even itself out a little more. It's hard enough trying to beat the best team on a normal day, but when you've had to play hard tiring games before hand while the other better team is able to time their peak, have their better players rested or recover from injuries and get good run outs against weaker teams, it makes it harder for the team that has to go and try and beat them.

Its a double-edged sword though. On one hand Kilkenny would likely have reached less finals. On the other they'd probably have a far better return of those they contested. For example the Kilkenny team that contested the 1987 final was very weak. If they were in Munster they wouldn't have gotten near an all-Ireland final. And look how they were found out. But people never complained back then. Galway had it even easier sure. Only more recently did the complaining start.. And Leinster's demise is not Kilkenny's fault. It took a little while, but now the standard of the Munster championship is on a par with the rest of Leinster. So its as you were before all the complaining started.

But that was 87, I think we all know that it's much more professional at this stage, I mean most top teams are professional in everything but name at this stage. And like I've continually said, it's not a question of how good Kilkenny are or what impact it has on them, they are by far the better team, but it's the impact it has on the challenging team that matters.
I agree 100% in no way is Leinster's poor standard in anyway Kilkenny's fault. But as much as some Leinster type try to say so, Munster is still much better then the level of teams in Leinster, and I think the fact that Galway were moved in there says a lot.

Reillers why do you keep ignoring the evidence.
Offaly beat limerick last year
there is nothing between waterford and wexford
kilkenny beat cork

How can you say its a better standard when the head to head suggests otherwise?

[bottlethrower7]

If you're Kilkenny, you're able to time almost the level of intensity you play at, building up and building it up, I mean Cody has it down to an art at this stage.
And like I said, it isn't a matter of Kilkenny only winning AI's because they get the soft route, they are the best and it probably doesn't have that much of an impact on them. But it's the impact it has on the likes of Tipp that will matter.

If you've to play hard competitive games all the way through to the final, with players not having much chance to recover and get rid of injuries, and not being able to look ahead to September, but only the next game in mind, it's going to impact on you're season. If you're Kilkenny and Shefflin gets injured and isn't 100% fit, they can afford to rest him for the Leinster game because they're not going to miss him at all against the likes of Dublin, but if you're Cork and Ben picks up a knock and isn't 100% fit, and you're to play Tipp, you can't afford to rest him, but then you run the risk of not having a fully fit Ben O Connor and possibly making the injury worse and loosing him for another game or so.

ok, I take that point. There certainly is merit to it. But, not so much simply in the context of the Munster championship. I think most sides would rest an injured player in a Munster tie, knowing they'd rather have them in the back door than not have them through the front door (depending on the player in question). I think its a more valid argument in the context of what happened, say Cork and Wexford in 1992 (with the league final replays), or Waterford in 2007. In those cases games piled up on top of each other and players definitely burnt out. Look at this year's championship though. Tipp play Clare this weekend. Tipp have had a 3-week layoff since their last game. They're fit lads. Its not like we're talking 3 games in 8 days, as can often be the case at club level. We're talking 3-weeks. Plenty of time to rest. Its different from Limerick and Waterford admittedly, but no different from the case were Galway and Kilkenny to draw on saturday.

The burnout argument doesn't really hold with me. Some will argue having more games is better. I know thats the mindset in Kilkenny, despite what some might think. Yes, Cody is very adept at having Kilkenny primed for when they need to be at their best, but thats in the context of the situation Kilkenny find themselves in. Whats to say he still wouldn't be excellent at it if Kilkenny were in the Munster championship? He might have to do it slightly differently, but would it be beyond him? Maybe. Maybe not.

[bottlethrower7]

But as much as some Leinster type try to say so, Munster is still much better then the level of teams in Leinster, and I think the fact that Galway were moved in there says a lot.

we'll have to agree to disagree on this then. On the evidence of this year's munster championship its very difficult to put forward an argument backing this up.

And as for Galway, I think its no secret that a lot of the tweaking thats been done to the hurling championship since 1997 has been firmly with Galway in mind. They'd have been in Leinster long before now were it not for some resistance within the county. Leinster was the logical place for them to go. But it wasn't because of Leinster's problems. It just made sense all-round.

[Reillers]

If you're Kilkenny, you're able to time almost the level of intensity you play at, building up and building it up, I mean Cody has it down to an art at this stage.
And like I said, it isn't a matter of Kilkenny only winning AI's because they get the soft route, they are the best and it probably doesn't have that much of an impact on them. But it's the impact it has on the likes of Tipp that will matter.

If you've to play hard competitive games all the way through to the final, with players not having much chance to recover and get rid of injuries, and not being able to look ahead to September, but only the next game in mind, it's going to impact on you're season. If you're Kilkenny and Shefflin gets injured and isn't 100% fit, they can afford to rest him for the Leinster game because they're not going to miss him at all against the likes of Dublin, but if you're Cork and Ben picks up a knock and isn't 100% fit, and you're to play Tipp, you can't afford to rest him, but then you run the risk of not having a fully fit Ben O Connor and possibly making the injury worse and loosing him for another game or so.

ok, I take that point. There certainly is merit to it. But, not so much simply in the context of the Munster championship. I think most sides would rest an injured player in a Munster tie, knowing they'd rather have them in the back door than not have them through the front door (depending on the player in question). I think its a more valid argument in the context of what happened, say Cork and Wexford in 1992 (with the league final replays), or Waterford in 2007. In those cases games piled up on top of each other and players definitely burnt out. Look at this year's championship though. Tipp play Clare this weekend. Tipp have had a 3-week layoff since their last game. They're fit lads. Its not like we're talking 3 games in 8 days, as can often be the case at club level. We're talking 3-weeks. Plenty of time to rest. Its different from Limerick and Waterford admittedly, but no different from the case were Galway and Kilkenny to draw on saturday.

The burnout argument doesn't really hold with me. Some will argue having more games is better. I know thats the mindset in Kilkenny, despite what some might think. Yes, Cody is very adept at having Kilkenny primed for when they need to be at their best, but thats in the context of the situation Kilkenny find themselves in. Whats to say he still wouldn't be excellent at it if Kilkenny were in the Munster championship? He might have to do it slightly differently, but would it be beyond him? Maybe. Maybe not.

In 2007, that was one hell of a Munster championship.
Cork beat Clare in a high scoring game in the first round. Tipp and Limerick met, they had to play 3 times before they were seperated, and then Waterford played Cork (minus the suspended 3) and won by 3 points, it was an incredibly tough game, high intensity, end to end stuff, Cork hitting the post in the last second or two, which would have forced a replay, but the score was in points 30-27. And then Waterford met Limerick, after they eventually beat Tipp, and beat them well in another high scoring game.

Waterford then met Cork twice, two massively hard end to end intense games, they'd everything, including bad reffing might I add, but by the time Waterford met Limerick in the semi Waterford had nothing left to give, they were out on their feet. They were probably the team of the championship that year, but they were running on nothing by the time the semi came.
If Waterford had played Offaly, Wexford twice and Galway, and Kilkenny had Waterford's fixtures.
I think they would have had a fair chance of winning the AI that year, or a better one at least then they did in the 08 final, and then again in 2008 the "form" team Tipp didn't make the final, Waterford did because Tipp couldn't finish them.

And if you want to win the Munster final, and you've Clare, Cork and Tipp to play you're not going to be able to afford to rest your best player are you? But Kilkenny can rest theirs. They play Galway now, and I had hope that Galway might actually beat them, at least give them a game, but now the one reason I thought they might is now gone, Canning could well miss the game. So the purpose of Galway being there isn't as important as it should have been. No Canning, no confidence, no superstar. Galway are not in the same level as they are without Canning.

Burnout is, can be an excuse but other times it's clear. It has an impact on a lot of players, especially younger players who want to play all the time. I mean a few years agothe twins were playing non stop all the time with their club and county. It didn't really have much of an impact on them though I suppose, but then you've got the likes of Corcoran who retired early because of burn out. He was sick of it.
But the typical GAA though, they preach about burn out and all that jazz, but then when it comes to putting fixtures for the underage sides, it's a joke. The playersd that are most vulnerable to burn out are the young lads but none of that seems to matter when they are setting dates for the likes of the U21s matches. But that's another story all together.

Kilkenny are an excellent side, but would Cody be so succesfull in Munster then he is in Leinster with the way he plans the teams peak, I guess we'll never no.

And while Galway has levelled the field a small bit, the standards still aren't there in Leinster. Ya you could have Wexford going 100% giving absolutely everything in one qualifier game against Waterford, it's one game that they've been building for all season, if they were to play 5 times, I'd predict Waterford to win each time. The same can be said for the other Leinster teams, it's one thing for them to give one game in the qualifiers absolutely everything they have and maybe coming out with a result, but it's another to keep that consistancy there, and keep that level there, which they can't do.

[seafoid]

Galway beat fancied KK teams in 2 cracking matches in 2001 and 2005. There is a race memory of those matches somewhere in the Galway psyche if MCintyre can find it.  The prospect of another KK all-ireland is about as exciting as thinking about Ryan Tubridy presenting the Late Late show. Even if Galway lose they'll have a better idea of what they are aiming for. The all-ireland strike rate should definitely improve over the next 20 years thanks to the leinster move. You don't need to be the best team to win an all-ireland. You need to take your chances when they materialise. Galway haven't done that since Joe Cooney and Éanna Ryan were in their prime. And St Joe of Canning is only early 20s. It's time for KK to get off the pot. They are to hurling today what shamrock rovers were to the 1980s.

[awfulynice]

If you're Kilkenny, you're able to time almost the level of intensity you play at, building up and building it up, I mean Cody has it down to an art at this stage.
And like I said, it isn't a matter of Kilkenny only winning AI's because they get the soft route, they are the best and it probably doesn't have that much of an impact on them. But it's the impact it has on the likes of Tipp that will matter.

If you've to play hard competitive games all the way through to the final, with players not having much chance to recover and get rid of injuries, and not being able to look ahead to September, but only the next game in mind, it's going to impact on you're season. If you're Kilkenny and Shefflin gets injured and isn't 100% fit, they can afford to rest him for the Leinster game because they're not going to miss him at all against the likes of Dublin, but if you're Cork and Ben picks up a knock and isn't 100% fit, and you're to play Tipp, you can't afford to rest him, but then you run the risk of not having a fully fit Ben O Connor and possibly making the injury worse and loosing him for another game or so.

ok, I take that point. There certainly is merit to it. But, not so much simply in the context of the Munster championship. I think most sides would rest an injured player in a Munster tie, knowing they'd rather have them in the back door than not have them through the front door (depending on the player in question). I think its a more valid argument in the context of what happened, say Cork and Wexford in 1992 (with the league final replays), or Waterford in 2007. In those cases games piled up on top of each other and players definitely burnt out. Look at this year's championship though. Tipp play Clare this weekend. Tipp have had a 3-week layoff since their last game. They're fit lads. Its not like we're talking 3 games in 8 days, as can often be the case at club level. We're talking 3-weeks. Plenty of time to rest. Its different from Limerick and Waterford admittedly, but no different from the case were Galway and Kilkenny to draw on saturday.

The burnout argument doesn't really hold with me. Some will argue having more games is better. I know thats the mindset in Kilkenny, despite what some might think. Yes, Cody is very adept at having Kilkenny primed for when they need to be at their best, but thats in the context of the situation Kilkenny find themselves in. Whats to say he still wouldn't be excellent at it if Kilkenny were in the Munster championship? He might have to do it slightly differently, but would it be beyond him? Maybe. Maybe not.

In 2007, that was one hell of a Munster championship.
Cork beat Clare in a high scoring game in the first round. Tipp and Limerick met, they had to play 3 times before they were seperated, and then Waterford played Cork (minus the suspended 3) and won by 3 points, it was an incredibly tough game, high intensity, end to end stuff, Cork hitting the post in the last second or two, which would have forced a replay, but the score was in points 30-27. And then Waterford met Limerick, after they eventually beat Tipp, and beat them well in another high scoring game.

Waterford then met Cork twice, two massively hard end to end intense games, they'd everything, including bad reffing might I add, but by the time Waterford met Limerick in the semi Waterford had nothing left to give, they were out on their feet. They were probably the team of the championship that year, but they were running on nothing by the time the semi came.
If Waterford had played Offaly, Wexford twice and Galway, and Kilkenny had Waterford's fixtures.
I think they would have had a fair chance of winning the AI that year, or a better one at least then they did in the 08 final, and then again in 2008 the "form" team Tipp didn't make the final, Waterford did because Tipp couldn't finish them.

And if you want to win the Munster final, and you've Clare, Cork and Tipp to play you're not going to be able to afford to rest your best player are you? But Kilkenny can rest theirs. They play Galway now, and I had hope that Galway might actually beat them, at least give them a game, but now the one reason I thought they might is now gone, Canning could well miss the game. So the purpose of Galway being there isn't as important as it should have been. No Canning, no confidence, no superstar. Galway are not in the same level as they are without Canning.

Burnout is, can be an excuse but other times it's clear. It has an impact on a lot of players, especially younger players who want to play all the time. I mean a few years agothe twins were playing non stop all the time with their club and county. It didn't really have much of an impact on them though I suppose, but then you've got the likes of Corcoran who retired early because of burn out. He was sick of it.
But the typical GAA though, they preach about burn out and all that jazz, but then when it comes to putting fixtures for the underage sides, it's a joke. The playersd that are most vulnerable to burn out are the young lads but none of that seems to matter when they are setting dates for the likes of the U21s matches. But that's another story all together.

Kilkenny are an excellent side, but would Cody be so succesfull in Munster then he is in Leinster with the way he plans the teams peak, I guess we'll never no.

And while Galway has levelled the field a small bit, the standards still aren't there in Leinster. Ya you could have Wexford going 100% giving absolutely everything in one qualifier game against Waterford, it's one game that they've been building for all season, if they were to play 5 times, I'd predict Waterford to win each time. The same can be said for the other Leinster teams, it's one thing for them to give one game in the qualifiers absolutely everything they have and maybe coming out with a result, but it's another to keep that consistancy there, and keep that level there, which they can't do.

Reillers are you suggesting that 5 games over what 3 months is too much for a team??? the amount of b#llshit that is talked about players being tired etc is ridiculous, if this was the case kilkenny would be dropping like flies to burnout due to their "legendary" high entencity training sessions.

Waterford had a break of two weeks i think it was to the limerick game, more than enough time to recover from 70 minutes running...jesus if youve ever competed at a high level in club hurling youll know that you can have matches every weekend for a period of two or three months without anyone speaking about tiredness. Its an absolute myth thats bandied about by defeated teams to get themselves off the hook. The simple fact is Waterford were beaten by Limerick who were the better team on the day. And Waterford were hammered by KK last year, i think nerves played a part but I think [insert munster team] would have had no chance against the KK team that year.

Also someone in an early post said that the reason KK is so good is because cody doesnt have to concentrate on teaching them the basic skills of the game...what a crock of sh#te. There is no intercounty team that needs basic skills training.

KK have just had great talent coming together at the same time, Like Offaly or Clare in the nineties, You are born with talent, you cant learn to be able to play like henry shefflin or eoin kelly im afraid. And at the moment KK have a serious crop of hurlers, it will pass and we will all be lamenting the fact and asking whats wrong with the marble county in a few years time.

[bottlethrower7]

Reillers are you suggesting that 5 games over what 3 months is too much for a team??? the amount of b#llshit that is talked about players being tired etc is ridiculous, if this was the case kilkenny would be dropping like flies to burnout due to their "legendary" high entencity training sessions.

this would be my thinking too. That more games is actually better. Burnout is quite real but I really don't think it affects teams as a whole that much. Its more a personal thing and it moreso affects younger players and those players coming to the end of their careers. Teams are too willing to jump on this and use it as an excuse when it suits them. Kilkenny have had their share of replays too over the years. Its had no negative bearing on them. If Kilkenny won out in those years it was because they were good enough. If not, it was because they weren't good enough.

I can't figure out if the examples Reilliers provided actually backs up my original point moreso than not. The Limerick-Tipp trilogy, while exciting, was very very poor standardwise. It should never have reached a 3rd game and Tipp only have themselves to blame over that. The point being, it wouldn't have made much difference if Kilkenny had to go the route that the munster teams mentioned went, as more often than not, there would not have been replays. Kilkenny wouldn't have had too much bother with either Limerick or Tipp, given how bad both sides were at that stage of the championship. Waterford or Cork would have proved sterner opposition, but again, I could see it being settled with 1 or 2 games max.

Remember when Cork returned from their strike last year. Kilkenny offered to play the back match that was missed before the authorities stepped in and said it wouldn't permit it. That wasn't Kilkenny being nice. That was Kilkenny being selfish. They wanted the game. The attitude in Kilkenny is that more games is better. Yes, more games means a better chance of being knocked out somewhere along the line, but it also means having a better team when you're reaching the end of that line.

If anything, in my opinion, the ease which Kilkenny have won provincial titles over the past number of years is considered more of a hindrance than a help within the county. No one welcomes Galway to Leinster more than Kilkenny.

seafoid, tubridy doing the late late is a great thing.

[awfulynice]

Reillers are you suggesting that 5 games over what 3 months is too much for a team??? the amount of b#llshit that is talked about players being tired etc is ridiculous, if this was the case kilkenny would be dropping like flies to burnout due to their "legendary" high entencity training sessions.

this would be my thinking too. That more games is actually better. Burnout is quite real but I really don't think it affects teams as a whole that much. Its more a personal thing and it moreso affects younger players and those players coming to the end of their careers. Teams are too willing to jump on this and use it as an excuse when it suits them. Kilkenny have had their share of replays too over the years. Its had no negative bearing on them. If Kilkenny won out in those years it was because they were good enough. If not, it was because they weren't good enough.

I can't figure out if the examples Reilliers provided actually backs up my original point moreso than not. The Limerick-Tipp trilogy, while exciting, was very very poor standardwise. It should never have reached a 3rd game and Tipp only have themselves to blame over that. The point being, it wouldn't have made much difference if Kilkenny had to go the route that the munster teams mentioned went, as more often than not, there would not have been replays. Kilkenny wouldn't have had too much bother with either Limerick or Tipp, given how bad both sides were at that stage of the championship. Waterford or Cork would have proved sterner opposition, but again, I could see it being settled with 1 or 2 games max.

Remember when Cork returned from their strike last year. Kilkenny offered to play the back match that was missed before the authorities stepped in and said it wouldn't permit it. That wasn't Kilkenny being nice. That was Kilkenny being selfish. They wanted the game. The attitude in Kilkenny is that more games is better. Yes, more games means a better chance of being knocked out somewhere along the line, but it also means having a better team when you're reaching the end of that line.

If anything, in my opinion, the ease which Kilkenny have won provincial titles over the past number of years is considered more of a hindrance than a help within the county. No one welcomes Galway to Leinster more than Kilkenny.

seafoid, tubridy doing the late late is a great thing.

I can understand young players mainly in the 17 - 21 bracket getting burnout as the number of teams they can are elligable for.
In some cases it can be 6 or even 7 if a player is talented enough and in the right age bracket. For Example a few years ago a player from my club was in this situation

U-18 Club
U-18 County
Senior Schools
U-21 Club
U-21 County
Senior Club
Senior County

I dont think he was in the field twice for training as the demands on him were too much as he pretty much never had a free night. He played fantastic stuff for a year or two but by the time he was on his last year U21 he looked a bit jaded from previous years.

But if you are past the underage teams you will really only have your club and if youre lucky enough your county to train and play with so there isnt an issue

[mouview]

But as much as some Leinster type try to say so, Munster is still much better then the level of teams in Leinster, and I think the fact that Galway were moved in there says a lot.

we'll have to agree to disagree on this then. On the evidence of this year's munster championship its very difficult to put forward an argument backing this up.

And as for Galway, I think its no secret that a lot of the tweaking thats been done to the hurling championship since 1997 has been firmly with Galway in mind. They'd have been in Leinster long before now were it not for some resistance within the county. Leinster was the logical place for them to go. But it wasn't because of Leinster's problems. It just made sense all-round.

Jaaz, BT, the tweaking done in '97 most certainly didn't suit Galway above anyone; ourselves and Antrim were still not guaranteed 2 bites at the cherry back then. It suited KK down to a tee when they could regroup and beat us in Thurles that year. (Cyril totally losing the plot on the sideline didn't help either. )

[bottlethrower7]

Jaaz, BT, the tweaking done in '97 most certainly didn't suit Galway above anyone; ourselves and Antrim were still not guaranteed 2 bites at the cherry back then. It suited KK down to a tee when they could regroup and beat us in Thurles that year. (Cyril totally losing the plot on the sideline didn't help either. )

ha ha. Nor putting Nigel Shaugnessey on DJ.

'97 was one quare year, thats for sure.

Jaysus, when I think about it. Adrian Ronan in goals. Galway up by a cricket score. Then what happened?