Galway v Kilkenny

[orangeman]

Noel Hickey vs. Joe Canning would have been some battle had it materialised.
Kilkenny's injury list is growing and Galway have been the closet thing to a bogey team for the Cats under Cody.
Galway might set a tend of beating them every 4 years.
2001, 2005, 2009???

Was looking foward to this.

[seafoid]

Galway can only benefit from having a match against the cats at this time of the year. I don't care if they get beaten provided they win an all-ireland in the next 3 years in the name of all the dead generations of non premier, non  rebel and non cat counties.   

[INDIANA]

Typical, TYPICAL!! Canning would be feckin injured wouldn't he be, Kilkenny lucky again as per usual. If and I mean IF Canning was 100% fit and nothing else, and the other Galway players were on their top game then I was hoping that Galway could go on and actually beat Kilkenny. They are the best without question, but they do get a cake walk ever season to the semi final/final usually the final. And I was hoping that Galway would be able to put it up to them and might even beat them, but now I can see them being blown out of the water. FFS. Typical, just so fuckin typical.

In all honesty Reillers Munster hasn't exactly produced anything to challenge KK this year so far, two games - 1 ok but highlighted more weaknesses than strengths for both teams and the other game was truly awful. You worry about your own Province and we will worry about ours.

I can't see Galway beating Kilkenny, they might stick with them for 40 or 50 mins but KK to pull away

It's not the point, I know Kilkenny are by far better then anything in Munster, but for the Munster teams to challenge Kilkenny they need fair ground, Munster is competitive it's hard games, Kilkenny as good as they are have a cake walk to the semi usually the final, every season with the likes of the poorer teams in Leinster. I know Kilkenny are better but it'd be a hell lot easier if there was even ground and teams weren't running out of steam by the time they get to the final, while Kilkenny are there nice and fresh and having been able to time their peak to perfection. Kilkenny are excellent, but there should be even ground, as it is there's not and Munster are far more competitive and you'll get much tougher games there then you will in Leinster. It probably wouldn't have much impact on the Kilkenny preformance anyway, but it would help if both teams were after the same level of matches when they met eachother.

Havin watched Dublin being smashed by Tyrone last year after 5 weeks with no game I don't agree. Surely with more games -you'd be more sharp. Surely with the handier passage Kilkenny should be undercooked coming into play Munster teams who have 3/4 games behind them. Lets face it Kilkenny are simply a class apart.

[Reillers]

Typical, TYPICAL!! Canning would be feckin injured wouldn't he be, Kilkenny lucky again as per usual. If and I mean IF Canning was 100% fit and nothing else, and the other Galway players were on their top game then I was hoping that Galway could go on and actually beat Kilkenny. They are the best without question, but they do get a cake walk ever season to the semi final/final usually the final. And I was hoping that Galway would be able to put it up to them and might even beat them, but now I can see them being blown out of the water. FFS. Typical, just so fuckin typical.

In all honesty Reillers Munster hasn't exactly produced anything to challenge KK this year so far, two games - 1 ok but highlighted more weaknesses than strengths for both teams and the other game was truly awful. You worry about your own Province and we will worry about ours.

I can't see Galway beating Kilkenny, they might stick with them for 40 or 50 mins but KK to pull away

It's not the point, I know Kilkenny are by far better then anything in Munster, but for the Munster teams to challenge Kilkenny they need fair ground, Munster is competitive it's hard games, Kilkenny as good as they are have a cake walk to the semi usually the final, every season with the likes of the poorer teams in Leinster. I know Kilkenny are better but it'd be a hell lot easier if there was even ground and teams weren't running out of steam by the time they get to the final, while Kilkenny are there nice and fresh and having been able to time their peak to perfection. Kilkenny are excellent, but there should be even ground, as it is there's not and Munster are far more competitive and you'll get much tougher games there then you will in Leinster. It probably wouldn't have much impact on the Kilkenny preformance anyway, but it would help if both teams were after the same level of matches when they met eachother.

Havin watched Dublin being smashed by Tyrone last year after 5 weeks with no game I don't agree. Surely with more games -you'd be more sharp. Surely with the handier passage Kilkenny should be undercooked coming into play Munster teams who have 3/4 games behind them. Lets face it Kilkenny are simply a class apart.

The fact that they are a class apart isn't what's relevant.
Kilkenny have very competitive training games that are legendary at this stage. But if you're Tipp and you've to play Cork and then say Waterford in two extremley hard competitive games, and then you're Kilkenny who've to play Wexford and Dublin.

Who's going to feel that pinch more when you get to a semi/final?

[heffo]

Typical, TYPICAL!! Canning would be feckin injured wouldn't he be, Kilkenny lucky again as per usual. If and I mean IF Canning was 100% fit and nothing else, and the other Galway players were on their top game then I was hoping that Galway could go on and actually beat Kilkenny. They are the best without question, but they do get a cake walk ever season to the semi final/final usually the final. And I was hoping that Galway would be able to put it up to them and might even beat them, but now I can see them being blown out of the water. FFS. Typical, just so fuckin typical.

In all honesty Reillers Munster hasn't exactly produced anything to challenge KK this year so far, two games - 1 ok but highlighted more weaknesses than strengths for both teams and the other game was truly awful. You worry about your own Province and we will worry about ours.

I can't see Galway beating Kilkenny, they might stick with them for 40 or 50 mins but KK to pull away

It's not the point, I know Kilkenny are by far better then anything in Munster, but for the Munster teams to challenge Kilkenny they need fair ground, Munster is competitive it's hard games, Kilkenny as good as they are have a cake walk to the semi usually the final, every season with the likes of the poorer teams in Leinster. I know Kilkenny are better but it'd be a hell lot easier if there was even ground and teams weren't running out of steam by the time they get to the final, while Kilkenny are there nice and fresh and having been able to time their peak to perfection. Kilkenny are excellent, but there should be even ground, as it is there's not and Munster are far more competitive and you'll get much tougher games there then you will in Leinster. It probably wouldn't have much impact on the Kilkenny preformance anyway, but it would help if both teams were after the same level of matches when they met eachother.

Havin watched Dublin being smashed by Tyrone last year after 5 weeks with no game I don't agree. Surely with more games -you'd be more sharp. Surely with the handier passage Kilkenny should be undercooked coming into play Munster teams who have 3/4 games behind them. Lets face it Kilkenny are simply a class apart.

The fact that they are a class apart isn't what's relevant.
Kilkenny have very competitive training games that are legendary at this stage. But if you're Tipp and you've to play Cork and then say Waterford in two extremley hard competitive games, and then you're Kilkenny who've to play Wexford and Dublin.

Who's going to feel that pinch more when you get to a semi/final?

Having two or more tough games in the legendary Munster championship should be far better preparation than beating teams in Leinster 'who've already given up' - the intensity of KK's training sessions notwithstanding

[INDIANA]

I don't agree Reillers- you can't beat hard match practice. In my view Cork and Tipp are far better prepared than Kilkenny for the all-ireland series. You can't beat competitve games. Cork have always had 2 weeks to prepare for a championship tilt against kilkenny sometimes more. I've looked at all the sports science manuals on recovery and 2 weeks even for amateur sportsmen is ample time. Kilkenny are just better . I really wish the GAA for one season would abolish the provincial championships and give kilkenny a pass into Munster just to put this argument to bed once and for all.

[Tatler Jack]

Kilkenny have very competitive training games that are legendary at this stage

Indeed and I wonder how much of it is legend!! I lived there for a few years and attended a few training sessions and saw nothing extraordinary. But the myth has developed and will be kept alive. The reason Kilkenny are the best is that by the time players come into the senior panel they have a full range of skills that they developed at a young age. Cody does not have to waste time coaching them and getting rid of bad habits. Add in the fact that they keep the game simple, keep their feet on the ground with no big egos and you get a successful team. The fact that for the most part there is no football in the county helps also - all available time at under age level is devoted to hurling whereas in a lot of other counties the time is divided between football and hurling.

[mckieran]

The fact that for the most part there is no football in the county helps also - all available time at under age level is devoted to hurling whereas in a lot of other counties the time is divided between football and hurling.

I agree with this, this has to be a major contribution to Kilkennys success in hurling

I really wish the GAA for one season would abolish the provincial championships and give kilkenny a pass into Munster just to put this argument to bed once and for all.

There was an article in the connact tribune last week referring mostly to football admittedly, where the journalist feels the time for the back door format is over. 

[NAG1]

Reillers are you putting forward an arguement then for an open draw to stop the percieved cake walk of kilkenny? And what then of the oh so precious munster hurling championship?

[bottlethrower7]

Munster is competitive it's hard games

really? When did this happen?

its competitive by virtue of the fact that there are a lot of teams producing the same substandard fare. Last weekend, for example, would have been poor by Christy Ring cup standards (and the weather can't be blamed for what we saw in the first half). Limerick and Waterford would be pushing it to be ahead of Dublin and Wexford (and maybe even Offaly) if they were held up against Leinster teams.

And Kilkenny lucky? You sure? They have had injury problems the length of your arm season after season. This season being no different.

The Munster championship hasn't been competitive for years. If you think any performance by any team in that championship this year is something that could have beaten Kilkenny, then I think you're sorely mistaken.

[AZOffaly]

In fairness bt7, I think you are substituting high quality for competitive. I think the Munster Championship is competitive, in that most of the games are close enough, and most of the 5 major hurling counties would harbour ambitions of winning it every year.

In standard, however, I agree with you. Just because a province is competitive, does not mean it is of a high standard. Ulster football was competitive long before their representatives were of a high standard.

Munster used to be a lot higher standard, but it's not lost it's competitiveness.

Now, whether it has lost it's 'edge' is another story, and I think it has. Clare were like a wet blanket against Tipp in the final last year, and none of Tipp, Cork, Limerick or Waterford were really at a high level of intensity either.

[bottlethrower7]

In fairness bt7, I think you are substituting high quality for competitive. I think the Munster Championship is competitive, in that most of the games are close enough, and most of the 5 major hurling counties would harbour ambitions of winning it every year.

In standard, however, I agree with you. Just because a province is competitive, does not mean it is of a high standard. Ulster football was competitive long before their representatives were of a high standard.

Munster used to be a lot higher standard, but it's not lost it's competitiveness.

Now, whether it has lost it's 'edge' is another story, and I think it has. Clare were like a wet blanket against Tipp in the final last year, and none of Tipp, Cork, Limerick or Waterford were really at a high level of intensity either.

no, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm saying. Its the same as what you said.

the poor standard of the Munster championship over the last number of years is, in my opinion, a direct reflection of how the competing teams view it right now. In the overall scheme of things it doesn't matter a damn. A season with a Munster title but no all-Ireland is just not good enough for teams with any serious aspirations. Teams realise this. They don't want to peak in early summer. Thus, only a token effort is made. Its no fluke that these teams are frequently a lot better come august when the knock-out fare starts.

[Reillers]

In fairness bt7, I think you are substituting high quality for competitive. I think the Munster Championship is competitive, in that most of the games are close enough, and most of the 5 major hurling counties would harbour ambitions of winning it every year.

In standard, however, I agree with you. Just because a province is competitive, does not mean it is of a high standard. Ulster football was competitive long before their representatives were of a high standard.

Munster used to be a lot higher standard, but it's not lost it's competitiveness.

Now, whether it has lost it's 'edge' is another story, and I think it has. Clare were like a wet blanket against Tipp in the final last year, and none of Tipp, Cork, Limerick or Waterford were really at a high level of intensity either.

no, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm saying. Its the same as what you said.

the poor standard of the Munster championship over the last number of years is, in my opinion, a direct reflection of how the competing teams view it right now. In the overall scheme of things it doesn't matter a damn. A season with a Munster title but no all-Ireland is just not good enough for teams with any serious aspirations. Teams realise this. They don't want to peak in early summer. Thus, only a token effort is made. Its no fluke that these teams are frequently a lot better come august when the knock-out fare starts.

Typical from a Leinster man.
See in Muster the teams still care very much about winning Munster. And while you may think that it's not high standard. But these are the only teams that will go and challenge Kilkenny, there is no one else. And you're right a Munster title isn't viewed as enough for Cork or Tipp..etc. but it still means something. And while you may think that they don't care about it, they still have to play it. And if you win it, which people want to do, you get the easy route to the semi final. It still has to be played for teams to go to the semi final, so no Munster team can afford to time their peak, the only team that has the luxury of that is Kilkenny, and they've done it for years. Yes these teams are a lot better come August, but the Munster championship still has to be played and teams still want to win it to get to the semi final, in what is still a competitive tournament, where you've Tipp players comeing out after the game saying that was the hardest game they've played in a long time, levels above the League, (and that said after they played Kilkenny.)

It still has to be played, it is still competitive and teams want to win it, either to have the success of winning the title, or to get to the semi final the easy way, which means that Munster teams, unlike Kilkenny can't afford to time their peak because unless they play those games and win those games, they wont be there in August.

[imtommygunn]

So would I be right in assuming Reillers that you reckon Cork would have more All Irelands if they were in Leinster?

Would you not agree that the lack of success of Galway,in recent years, is an illustration of how an easy route is most certainly not beneficial?

[bottlethrower7]

no Munster team can afford to time their peak, the only team that has the luxury of that is Kilkenny, and they've done it for years.

its not necessarily about 'timing' your peak though. Like, theres no button you can press that makes 'now' your peak time. Reaching your peak, how to do so, etc, differs from team to team. A settled side like Kilkenny will find themselves in more control of something like this than a side with a lot of new names like Limerick or the current Cork setup. Those teams, while I'm sure they'd rather a munster title, may be better off heading through the back door. The Cork side of 2004 won out because of the route they took to the final. Games fell at the right time and they were learning and developing as they went. They may not have had the benefit of what they learned through the back-door had they not had the extra games.

Anyone remember Clare throwing a Munster final? Dave Forde? 21-yard free? I do.

Kilkenny might not have gotten near the '04 final had Wexford not beaten them in Leinster that year. Actually I'm almost sure they wouldn't have. They were a team on the decline and, again, it was how and when games fell that enabled them go as far as they did.

In that context a team like Limerick might be better off through the back-door. Or even Cork or Clare. Waterford or Tipp are the only sides that I could see preferring the 'less' games route, being closer to being able to control when they peak.

The argument about Kilkenny getting a soft path to the final has not been valid for at the guts of 10 years now at this stage. If it were the case we'll no doubt start seeing Galway clearing up with all-Irelands over the next few years, seeing as they'll have pretty much the same path.