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Well now its time to start making the predictions for Sept 7th. Going on the only real benchmark which is Limerick this year (Kilkenny and Tipp have had some awfully poor opponents this year) I reckon KK will just about shade it. Tipp need to up it a notch to win which is doable as they seem more together as a team than any other time  in the past few years.

Tipp by 6 points.

Would echo Laoislad's views. Honestly think that this Kilkenny team is there for the taking and Tipperary's constant and intelligent movement in their forward line will result in a imo very easy win for Tipperary.

Tipperary imo again would be wise to stear clear of all "rough stuff" in the early part of the game despite their tradition of never ever doing so.

Any team with Michael Cahil and others on the subs' bench is a seriously good team.

Tipperary by 7 to 10 points.

I'd expect a tipp win by a sizeable margin

If I was making those predictions about Tipp's winning margin, the site would be crashed with the outrage.  ;D

Personally I think Tipp are 7 or 8 points better than the Cats. I can't see is winning it that easily. Kilkenny's bitterness towards us will make sure they fight tooth and nail to make it a tight game.

I would fancy Tipp as well.
The aura around kilkenny looks to have faded a bit, and their full-forward line was atrocious against Limerick with only a single Eoin Larkin goal to show for their efforts from play. Ritchie Power will surely start inside and wouldn't be surprised to see Walter Walsh either.

Kilkenny's midfield is going really well this year, but the performance of McGrath & Woodlock the last day is a massive plus for Tipp.
Tipp's defence also looks very strong, and the team as a whole seems to have options all over the field.
I think Corbett must go the way of Shefflin as he was very poor against Cork. Impact sub might be the best option for him as I think there is huge potential in Jason Forde.

With the terrible weather conditions in the Kilkenny Limerick game I thought that Limerick were the better team on the day but Kilkenny managed to get over the line. Limerick have been a quality side these last 2 seasons to be fair, while Tip have been muck. Tipp really opened up against a poor Cork team on the day but can they deliver 2 quality performances in a row? And will Kilkenny deliver two poor performances in a row?

As PE has said, the bitterness between these two team will keep it tight, it's an All Ireland final ffs, Kilkenny won't play as bad next day out (they still won!!) The Kilkenny FB line is a lot stronger that Corks I would have thought, yes their forward line is missing that bit of bite (was only in one game) but I'd expect TJ to have a far better game than he did last time out, I thought he was lost or in poor form against Limerick which didn't help Kilkenny's game.

Kilkenny by the minimum

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 21, 2014, 11:34:56 AM
With the terrible weather conditions in the Kilkenny Limerick game I thought that Limerick were the better team on the day but Kilkenny managed to get over the line. Limerick have been a quality side these last 2 seasons to be fair, while Tip have been muck. Tipp really opened up against a poor Cork team on the day but can they deliver 2 quality performances in a row? And will Kilkenny deliver two poor performances in a row?

As PE has said, the bitterness between these two team will keep it tight, it's an All Ireland final ffs, Kilkenny won't play as bad next day out (they still won!!) The Kilkenny FB line is a lot stronger that Corks I would have thought, yes their forward line is missing that bit of bite (was only in one game) but I'd expect TJ to have a far better game than he did last time out, I thought he was lost or in poor form against Limerick which didn't help Kilkenny's game.

Kilkenny by the minimum

Kilkenny certainly are not the team they were and are very beatable as Limerick really should have had them albeit I think the poor weather suited Kilkenny and their more direct approach than Limerick who like the work the ball out a bit more before putting it into their forwards.
At the same time the abject poorness of Cork might gloss over a few Tipp failings which Cody will be doing his damnest to exploit. Firstly the high ball into Callanan won't work with JJ or Tyrell picking him up so they'll need to hit the spaces, but Kilkenny won't leave just so much space in behind there and they certainly won't leave the Tipp midfield and Paudie Maher with the freedom they enjoyed on Sunday to pick out players at will.
I was very impressed with the Tipp defence in general, Barrett, Bergin and these lads have a bit of pace about them so Kilkenny won't get a whole pile of easy scores either which will lead to another tight, dour struggle as their recent AI's have more or less been.
A lot IMO will depend on the style of refereeing, if its let go into an abrasive battle, then Kilkenny will probably come out on top, but if we get a few early frees setting the tone of how the tackle is to be allowed then I can see a far more open contest, probably favouring Tipp, if its the same Tipp that played Cork, that is.

My gut still says Kilkenny though, but then again I need a dose of epsom salts...

Lar was poorish against Cork but still did a few good things. His history v KK is mixed but until someone as good as him with that indefinable bit of extra class comes along, I think he's worth persisting with.

For all KK's fans hype of him, TJ Reid has been quiet *from play* in a number of big games this year, e.g. league final, draw with Galway, (MOTM in replay in fairness), quietish v Dublin and again v Lk. Indeed KK's forwards in general haven't set the c'ship alight; Colin Fennelly has been consistent and good, Eoin Larkin works hard but has not to date been a major scoring threat, Henry's impact has been largely marginal, Richie Power is dangerous but has been injury-plagued, Mark Kelly and Walter Walsh have just been poor and Taggy hasn't been starting.  Could KK suddenly go the way of MU??!!!!!

How anyone can look past KK for this game is beyond me.

Tipps tactic of lobbing the long ball in the the FF will be meat and drink to the KK backs. Lar can go out the field in search of all the loose ball he wants he just won't find any. Colin Fennelly on Paudie Maher would run him into the ground pace to burn.

I am no fan of KK but I just cant see the optimism for Tipp on this occasion and I had backed them to be beat Cork in the Semi final. But apart from a woeful Cork performance Tipp would probably have struggled to get over the line.

It will be a dog fight and the experienced heads will come out on top IMO.

Every year people say that KK are there for the taking but no one ever seems to be able to do the taking. Tipperary more than most have been on the losing side of most of these games. To say Tipp are 6-7 points better than this KK side is madness after  because they just beat a Cork team that did not show up. Tipp may not fear the KK full forward line but the half forward line will be a different story. There will be no easy ball for Maher and co to drive Tipp on. Most likely they will be under pressure facing their own goal.

KK by 4 at most

Quote from: Catscream on August 22, 2014, 04:21:10 PM
Every year people say that KK are there for the taking but no one ever seems to be able to do the taking. Tipperary more than most have been on the losing side of most of these games. To say Tipp are 6-7 points better than this KK side is madness after  because they just beat a Cork team that did not show up. Tipp may not fear the KK full forward line but the half forward line will be a different story. There will be no easy ball for Maher and co to drive Tipp on. Most likely they will be under pressure facing their own goal.

KK by 4 at most

I thought Tipp won in 2010.
It'll come down to how much change the Tipp forwards get out of the KK backs. 
The cats are not the force they were.
They might squeeze another title running on fumes and sheer willpower like Man Utd 2 seasons ago.

Hate to state the obvious but Tipp and Kilkenny have both played Limerick in championship this year, one lost and the other won. Think there are some delusional Tipp fans on here.

Quote from: sylvieslynanesnutsack on August 22, 2014, 05:10:30 PM
Hate to state the obvious but Tipp and Kilkenny have both played Limerick in championship this year, one lost and the other won. Think there are some delusional Tipp fans on here.

That's not how it works

Cork beat Limerick & Tipp stuffed Cork so where are we now ?

The common denominator is Limerick as far as Tipp and Kilkenny go.

Quote from: sylvieslynanesnutsack on August 23, 2014, 01:43:55 PM
The common denominator is Limerick as far as Tipp and Kilkenny go.

Galway are the other common denominator. KK beat us by 8 in a replay. Tipp beat us by 10. I've tried following form lines before when betting on games and it was a total failure. I don't know if it works in horse racing but it doesn't work in team sports. Way too many variables.

Agree Asal think some Tipp fans could do with a reality check though. 6 or 7 in a row on here saying how many they are going to beat kk by.

In fairness there's only 1 Tipp fan here.

KK by 3+. Couldn't judge Tipp on the Cork game, was made way too easy for them, whereas Limerick threw the kitchen sink at a ring-rusty Cats and still couldn't beat them. That said, would love to see the Tipp men do it.

5 June 2005, Irish Times


Keith Duggan listens as Tipperary hurling legend Jimmy Doyle modestly recalls the glories of his playing days and his enduring love for the game.  It is one of the most tantalising distractions in sport: matching the great teams of yesteryear against the hyped-up cast of the contemporary scene to see who would triumph.  In hurling, with its history defined by eras of long magnificence and towering figures, the fantasy is particularly appealing. To transport those Brylcreemed Cork boys of 1946 or the Limerick of Mick Mackey's era or Wexford in the 1950s to march in the millennial Croke Park in full bloom and vigour, for 70 minutes of hurling against the cream of the contemporary game . . .  Tickets would be gold dust. The notion occurred to Jimmy Doyle as he reflected on his Tipperary colleagues of 1964, the year when a county which took ownership of that hurling decade felt at its most potent and dynamic. The chief attacking threat of that era used a hospital crutch as a prop as he sat in his living room and explained the hazards of life as a small, lightning-quick scoring genius during that period. "Cork and Wexford in the 1960s, jeepers, they were big men. Or down to Limerick to play the Quaids or the Hartigans. The backs are small in comparison. I would love if our team could hurl now.

In my time, Jon Nolan was a big man, Tom McGarry of Limerick was big and Martin Coogan of Kilkenny. Powerful men. And they could move. They held an oul' retirement do for me not so long ago and Coogan was asked about his job in marking me, what he was told to do. 'Keep Jimmy within arms' reach,' he replied."  In a sense, hurling has always had Jimmy Doyle within arms' reach. He spent his childhood in the terraced houses that border Semple Stadium in Thurles and lives there today, close enough to see Tipperary win a penalty on television and to nip through the turnstiles and dart up to the stands before Eoin Kelly would trot over to take it.

Hours of solitary play in the shadows of that looming stadium, so vast and quiet on the many days when it held no matches, nourished Doyle's childhood imagination. And he can read a clean, unbroken line from the afternoon when his father, a cobbler, presented him with a pair of hurling boots when he was three-years-old through the long journey to becoming the celebrated ex-hurler of today. A teenage hurling prodigy, a Team of the Millennium man, a winner of six All-Ireland medals and the possessor of a name that still defines the grandeur of youth for Irish people of a certain age. "I never thought I was anybody," he said more than once on a humid Wednesday afternoon in his home as children roamed through the cloisters of Semple Stadium for a Rice Cup match.  Christy Ring was Jimmy Doyle's boyhood idol. He slides easily back through the decades to the late 1940s, when he was perhaps eight, and he would loiter around the Glenmorgan guesthouse waiting for the Cork team to arrive in Thurles before the match. He had eyes only for the Cloyne man, treating him as a matinee star."Nobody paid any attention to me. I could follow them into the hotel and then up to the field and fool my way into the ground. If Christy was playing into the Thurles end, I would stand behind the wire there and watch him for the first half. Then I would make my way around the other end for the second half. I was so small nobody took any notice. I was able to sneak down the tunnel afterwards to the dressingroom and watch him tog off.
"Then I would go back down to the Glenmorgan and watch him eat dinner. He used to mash everything up and then spoon the food into him, and so that was how I had to eat my dinner. Every chap had a favourite player and Ring was my god of that world. He fascinated me. I could never see Ring do any wrong. He was the greatest of all time, in my book anyhow. So it was an extraordinary thing for me when I grew up to eventually hurl on the same field as him and talk with him. And he never disappointed me." 

As a goalkeeper at the age of 14 on the Tipperary minor team that lost to Dublin in the 1954 All-Ireland final, Doyle collected minor medals as a dashing, elusive forward over the next two Septembers. Although captain of the 1957 teenage team, he was held in reserve for the senior game against Cork in the Munster championship, the day he first lined out on the same field as Ring.  "In a way, I would have almost preferred to have played minor because I grew up with these lads and this was my team. But I was down in the Glenmorgan with the older team and I said to Paddy Leahy, our boss, that I wanted to go up and have a look at the minors, that I didn't feel right. He warned me not to play, but the mistake they made was to give me my boots and hurley."  When Doyle appeared, Tipperary were 14 points up. "Cork were divils, though," he sighed. "A point, a point, a point, a goal. Next thing I know I am lacing up the boots on the side line. With 10 minutes to go, there was only a point in it and the minor mentor came up and said, 'What do you think, Jimmy?' And I said I was going in. So I hopped in and got four points and we won by five, but it was pure adrenaline. I did in 10 minutes what I should have done in an hour and I was a bit spent for the seniors. Cork beat us."

That was just a deferral of glory, however. Doyle was still a teenager when he collected the first of his All-Ireland senior medals in 1958. His father, Gerry, had been reserve goalkeeper on the Tipperary championship winning teams of 1937 and 1945, and he inherited his eye along with the neat athleticism of his uncle Tommy. The scoring flair was all his own.  "Tommy used to say to me: 'I held Ring. I could hold you too'. And I'd reply, 'I'm not sure, Tommy. I don't know what Christy was at in those games but I think I might get away for three or four, anyway'." Tommy advised him to get a collie to help him practise his hurling, and so Pal became Doyle's aide and opponent and coach in the hours he spent banging the ball to nobody at all behind Semple Stadium. Using the crutch again - the result of an accident while moving a table from a shed, when a stray brick broke his ankle - he demonstrated how he would have to strike the ball at speed before Pal would leap to grab it. Then he would chase it to control it before it hit the ground. He repeated the drill thousands of times, even after the dog had begun to slow and lack the energy for the sport.  "That was the best dog. I had to wear black glasses around the town for a week because I cried so much when he died."  For over a decade, the style and craft from those dedicated hours helped Doyle win acclaim and admiration he never became comfortable with. Away from the game, he worked as a cobbler with his father, and then in the Assumption Hospital in Thurles. On Sundays, though, his feats sent currents of static through wireless sets across the breadth of the country.

Through the 1960s Tipperary's All-Ireland successes were like an endless harvest. It got so the homecomings felt flat. As a lissome, crowd-pleasing forward, Doyle took punishment in those uncompromising matches - a smashed collarbone against Wexford, a broken ankle from a stroke delivered playing Cork as he rose to fetch a ball overhead.

"I'm good friends with the man that did it to this day. But there was no televisions then and I suppose if some of the stuff that went on was played back, there would have been trouble. That was the way of it."It was the fear of delivering such an injudicious blow that made Doyle take the hardest step of all. His waning coincided with the demise of Tipperary as an endless hurling power. In 1971, Tipperary won an All-Ireland final against Kilkenny, but by then Doyle was getting discs pushed back before games, and in the team the fire was out. Shortly afterwards, driving back from one of those chill and ugly autumn league games against Kildare, Gerry offered his son the only piece of advice about the game.   "There had been a bit of an oul' rowon the field. He waited until we dropped John Flanagan off and were alone, and he said, 'Jimmy, I think you might be getting a bit slow. I think your time is done. Retire. Get out. For the simple reason you might hit someone and regret it for the rest of your life'."  Doyle ended his Tipperary career as the substitute goalkeeper in 1973. Two years later, he won his 11th and last county title against Silvermines with Thurles Sarsfields and quit. His father passed away the next winter. Doyle partially stayed involved, coaching Portlaoise to a succession of county titles in the early 1980s.

He was rejected when he went for the Tipperary minor management post one year, something that still smarts. While he aged, the face retained a lot of its boyish, handsome qualities, and he never learned to grow comfortable with the expectant question, "Are you the Jimmy Doyle?"  "I never thought I was anything. There wasn't much made of it. Like, someone said I stood out, but you don't think you do. For instance, I would never see the crowd on the field. The hurling today where they stand on the wire and kiss the jersey, I think it is all soccer, all bunkum. It's ridiculous. I just scored and ran back to position. That was our job."  When Thurles Sarsfields organised a This Is Your Life, the fear was, according to Ger Corbett, Jimmy would bolt the room out of mortification. And he was overcome with embarrassment but also thrilled to see so many players of the era. Because leaving the game shook him deeply.  Not so long ago he contributed to a moving piece with Breaking Ball, walking the field in Semple Stadium and talking about that universal sporting feeling of when the game leaves you.  "I have it there," he said, gesturing at the VCR. "It never eases off. When you retire, it is there for years. You miss the boys. You are with them for years and they are like brothers to you. You always hope you will meet them again, but not enough. An odd time. Not enough. It would break your heart. Why wouldn't it, God almighty?"  He donated the medals to Croke Park.


As a town, Thurles still feels the same to him and he is happy to be just a neighbour, courtly and easy-going. He cannot wait to be rid of the infernal crutches which make him feel as if he has just picked up another hurling injury. Although he cannot return to the field with the team of 1964, he still has faith in Tipperary and is still immersed in the modern game.

At last year's All-Ireland final at Croke Park, he was introduced to Willie John Ring for the first time. Willie John told him about one evening years back in Cloyne when he went to confession and left his bike in at Christy's house. When he returned to collect the bike, Christy was sitting at the fire and wanted to talk.  "He said Christy told him he was watching this young fella for Tipperary playing minor in 1955 and 1956 and by '57 hitting towards senior. Christy said, 'I am watching him for the last three years and he is coming on in bounds. I think my era is going out, it is time to go'. I always wanted to tell you that. Christy was watching you the whole time."  Doyle was uncomfortable with this praise and delighted by it. As he thanked the Cork man, he walked away realising it had been years since he felt so light on his feet in Croke Park.

Brilliant article!

Quote from: seafoid on September 02, 2014, 06:27:05 PM
5 June 2005, Irish Times


Keith Duggan listens as Tipperary hurling legend Jimmy Doyle modestly recalls the glories of his playing days and his enduring love for the game.  It is one of the most tantalising distractions in sport: matching the great teams of yesteryear against the hyped-up cast of the contemporary scene to see who would triumph.  In hurling, with its history defined by eras of long magnificence and towering figures, the fantasy is particularly appealing. To transport those Brylcreemed Cork boys of 1946 or the Limerick of Mick Mackey's era or Wexford in the 1950s to march in the millennial Croke Park in full bloom and vigour, for 70 minutes of hurling against the cream of the contemporary game . . .  Tickets would be gold dust. The notion occurred to Jimmy Doyle as he reflected on his Tipperary colleagues of 1964, the year when a county which took ownership of that hurling decade felt at its most potent and dynamic. The chief attacking threat of that era used a hospital crutch as a prop as he sat in his living room and explained the hazards of life as a small, lightning-quick scoring genius during that period. "Cork and Wexford in the 1960s, jeepers, they were big men. Or down to Limerick to play the Quaids or the Hartigans. The backs are small in comparison. I would love if our team could hurl now.

Anyone on here wanna swap two super hurling tickets for section 303 for two football tickets?

I would love to see Tipp beating the cats out the gate. To go with last year's Cork match.

Quote from: seafoid on September 04, 2014, 11:16:37 AM
I would love to see Tipp beating the cats out the gate. To go with last year's Cork match.

Meh,
    Its hard to get excited about an AI final when two of the traditional big three go toe to toe, I couldn't care less who wins but will be wanted a good interesting game of hurling, not necessarily a score fest but both going hell for leather at it.

Still think the Cats will eek out the win by suffocating the Tipp forwards.

Quote from: johnneycool on September 05, 2014, 09:45:04 AM

Quote from: seafoid on September 04, 2014, 11:16:37 AM
I would love to see Tipp beating the cats out the gate. To go with last year's Cork match.

Meh,
    Its hard to get excited about an AI final when two of the traditional big three go toe to toe, I couldn't care less who wins but will be wanted a good interesting game of hurling, not necessarily a score fest but both going hell for leather at it.

Still think the Cats will eek out the win by suffocating the Tipp forwards.

It's more like the big 1 and the 2 stragglers these days
Tipp win the odd all Ireland every few years but it's a long way from hell's kitchen.

Last year was brilliant, and with our close links to Davy Fitz it was about as close as we're going to get to having an actual team in the final.  But at the same time I'm really looking forward to Sunday!

I don't think either team is as strong as the recent titanic clashes but I just love Kilkennys attitude.  Against limerick the full back line in particular where in all sorts of trouble but they never stopped and in the last 20 mins had their men beaten all ends up.

I'd imagine this is it for Henry and I would love to see him go out on a real high.

Cats by 4!

Quote from: seafoid on September 05, 2014, 10:06:08 AM

Quote from: johnneycool on September 05, 2014, 09:45:04 AM

Quote from: seafoid on September 04, 2014, 11:16:37 AM
I would love to see Tipp beating the cats out the gate. To go with last year's Cork match.

Meh,
    Its hard to get excited about an AI final when two of the traditional big three go toe to toe, I couldn't care less who wins but will be wanted a good interesting game of hurling, not necessarily a score fest but both going hell for leather at it.

Still think the Cats will eek out the win by suffocating the Tipp forwards.

It's more like the big 1 and the 2 stragglers these days
Tipp win the odd all Ireland every few years but it's a long way from hell's kitchen.

They'd have a lot more if they got a bye into the semi-finals like Galway enjoyed for years.

...26 years and counting....

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on September 05, 2014, 03:53:48 PM

Quote from: seafoid on September 05, 2014, 10:06:08 AM

Quote from: johnneycool on September 05, 2014, 09:45:04 AM

Quote from: seafoid on September 04, 2014, 11:16:37 AM
I would love to see Tipp beating the cats out the gate. To go with last year's Cork match.

Meh,
    Its hard to get excited about an AI final when two of the traditional big three go toe to toe, I couldn't care less who wins but will be wanted a good interesting game of hurling, not necessarily a score fest but both going hell for leather at it.

Still think the Cats will eek out the win by suffocating the Tipp forwards.

It's more like the big 1 and the 2 stragglers these days
Tipp win the odd all Ireland every few years but it's a long way from hell's kitchen.

They'd have a lot more if they got a bye into the semi-finals like Galway enjoyed for years.

...26 years and counting....

That long????????????????? Feck I remember (as a young lad) the first league game against Galway in Casement after the won the all Ireland that September. Some scenes after the game kids (myself included) running on to get the hurls signed or shake hands with the Galway lads

Kilkenny (SH team to play Tipperary): E Murphy; P Murphy, JJ Delaney, J Tyrrell; J Holden, B Hogan, Cillian Buckley; Richie Hogan, Conor Fogarty; M Fennelly, C Fennelly, TJ Reid; W Walsh, R Power, Eoin Larkin -

No Sheff or Tommy

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on September 05, 2014, 03:53:48 PM

Quote from: seafoid on September 05, 2014, 10:06:08 AM

Quote from: johnneycool on September 05, 2014, 09:45:04 AM

Quote from: seafoid on September 04, 2014, 11:16:37 AM
I would love to see Tipp beating the cats out the gate. To go with last year's Cork match.

Meh,
    Its hard to get excited about an AI final when two of the traditional big three go toe to toe, I couldn't care less who wins but will be wanted a good interesting game of hurling, not necessarily a score fest but both going hell for leather at it.

Still think the Cats will eek out the win by suffocating the Tipp forwards.

It's more like the big 1 and the 2 stragglers these days
Tipp win the odd all Ireland every few years but it's a long way from hell's kitchen.

They'd have a lot more if they got a bye into the semi-finals like Galway enjoyed for years.

...26 years and counting....

Mike, kindly, remain in school and complete your education. Avoid having to work in menial or dead-end jobs when you grow up.

Quote from: johnneycool on September 05, 2014, 09:45:04 AM

Quote from: seafoid on September 04, 2014, 11:16:37 AM
I would love to see Tipp beating the cats out the gate. To go with last year's Cork match.

Meh,
    Its hard to get excited about an AI final when two of the traditional big three go toe to toe, I couldn't care less who wins but will be wanted a good interesting game of hurling, not necessarily a score fest but both going hell for leather at it.

Still think the Cats will eek out the win by suffocating the Tipp forwards.

I know where your coming from JC but its still the AI final and never fails to get the nerve ends tingling come the weekend of it for me. In saying that this might be the 6th year in a row they are meeting in the championship so for some neutrals there might be less of an appeal.

I have a feeling its Kilkenny's year. Limerick really put up to them and I think that will stand to them plus a fitter Richie Power and Michael Fennelly is a real bonus for them. If one of the teams flops on the day, as we have seen in the past with them its more likely to be Tipp. I cant see the likes of Bubbles getting the freedom to score 6 from play like the last day so it points to a KK win for me.

One reservation I would have though is around Brian Hogan. A couple of times in the 2nd half of the semi Limerick ran through from the wing towards goal and Hogan really struggled to get across, if Tipp can take advantage of that maybe they could do it.

KK by 5.

I think Tipp could do it if they get the tactics right and let fly.
KK are not the force they were. I would be delighted if they could do a Man Utd.

Da fhad I an la tagann an oiche.

Haven't ever been as unexcited about an AIHF as this year.

Honestly think this will be all over by half time . Tipperary imho will win very easily.

For the first time in a long while KK imo again are carrying a few passengers with no impact from the bench. Monsoon conditions in s/f masked it over but just think that father time etc will hit them hard tomorrow.

Tipperary by far the better side since the wristbands, miraculous medals etc and the fistpumping when fouled has been jettisoned. If ( and I presume ) they will just jog or sprint into space when the KK backs try to rile them early they imo again will take the KK backs to the cleaners.

Any team with Cahill on the bench has to be a class act.

Joe Hayes is some craic

I just can't work this one out at all. Ageing KK team against a young vibrant full of running Tipp.

Would love to see Henry go out on a high but Tipp might have the legs on them.

Are Kilkenny that old though? 3 of their backs are getting on a bit(and are still only about the 30 mark I'd guess) , but  it looks a youngish team overall. Canalman, if you fancy Tipp to win easily, they're 11/4 (- 3 points). It's a bet I might make myself today, but with a lot less conviction than you.

Will be in dire need for decent link for the final and the minor game. any suggestion must welcome!

Check here closer to game http://www.wiziwig.tv/broadcast.php?matchid=276948&part=sports (http://www.wiziwig.tv/broadcast.php?matchid=276948&part=sports)

Why is the Sky commentator unable to see that the umpire twice called for Hawkeye? He claimed the umpire waved the shots wide on both occasions and the ref called for Hawkeye when clearly he didn't.

Kilkenny needed that goal and will be happy to get to half time still in the game.

Not often you see so many mistakes in an AI final. Commentator seems to be constantly using the phrases, 'dropped it initially', 'another poor handpass', 'doesn't reach its intended target' or 'missed it again.' Exciting though!

Fantastic game of hurling.
Second half should be epic.

Rachel Wyse's thighs hmmm

My rte has fucked up!

I'm listening to it an Raidio na Gaeltachta and Risteard de Paor has just scored a goal and it sounds like the Normans vs the Irish 

Great match. Wonder if it could end in a draw with the replay scheduled for Newbridge.

Brilliant. Tipp should have been out of sight with the amount of goal chances they had.

Great match - I think hawkeye was wrong!!  :o

Replay Sat 27th- I thought it would have been next Sunday?

All Ireland almost won by a hawk eye decision.

Phenomenal stuff and huge performances under pressure from the big players. Delighted it wasn't decided by that contentious free. Even more thrilled we'll get to see them play again.

Quote from: Zip Code on September 07, 2014, 05:02:28 PM
Replay Sat 27th- I thought it would have been next Sunday?

Lacrosse competition organised by the Ancient order of Hibernians (Notre Dame) , worth 9 billion to the Dublin economy , business decision

Quote from: Asal Mor on September 07, 2014, 05:04:02 PM
Phenomenal stuff and huge performances under pressure from the big players. Delighted it wasn't decided by that contentious free. Even more thrilled we'll get to see them play again.

If Galway could get a few lads who can score long range points we could be there or thereabouts next year 

Quote from: Carmen Stateside on September 07, 2014, 01:20:15 PM
Check here closer to game http://www.wiziwig.tv/broadcast.php?matchid=276948&part=sports (http://www.wiziwig.tv/broadcast.php?matchid=276948&part=sports)

great link thanks

Geat game. Hands up I didnt think KK had it in them. V well reffed imo.

Quote from: seafoid on September 07, 2014, 05:05:31 PM
If Galway could get a few lads who can score long range points we could be there or thereabouts next year

We live in hope seafoid and you're right to look on the bright side because there's way too much doom and gloom around Galway hurling.

It's not often I'm right about anything so I would like to point out that when they brought in the 20 meter line rule for frees, I predicted on here that it would pay for defenders to commit professional fouls. We saw it today, although the second penalty was outside the box.

Yes I thought the ref had a great game and added to what was probably the best AI final Ive seen.

Quote from: Asal Mor on September 07, 2014, 05:38:30 PM

Quote from: seafoid on September 07, 2014, 05:05:31 PM
If Galway could get a few lads who can score long range points we could be there or thereabouts next year

We live in hope seafoid and you're right to look on the bright side because there's way too much doom and gloom around Galway hurling.

It's not often I'm right about anything so I would like to point out that when they brought in the 20 meter line rule for frees, I predicted on here that it would pay for defenders to commit professional fouls. We saw it today, although the second penalty was outside the box.

To be fair they were incredibly poor penalties, the first one in particular. I don't think we can say the penalty is unfair yet though it does appear to be. I think it is fine in distance terms but we could look at the amount of players on the line.

http://balls.ie/gaa/the-british-hurling-reaction-to-the-all-ireland-final/

Absolutely unreal stuff. Fair fucks to both teams, the entire game was played at a mental speed and it was a game that made you proud to be a hurling man. Can't wait until the replay, hopefully more of the same

Btw, O'Dwyer is a sensational hurler. Very impressive in both the semi and the final. There is so much skill in that Tipp forward line with Callanan, McGrath and Corbett had a much game today than the semi against Limerick. Maher was fantastic at winning high balls also and is a vital option in that team

Quote from: didlyi on September 07, 2014, 05:39:34 PM
Yes I thought the ref had a great game and added to what was probably the best AI final Ive seen.

I thought the ref had a stinker and let Tipp backs away with murder in the first half (although I understand these were hard to see on the tv) also I thought it was against the rule book for a ref to ask an umpire about where a foul occurred.  Nearly had huge ramifications on the game.

QuoteIf Galway could get a few lads who can score long range points we could be there or thereabouts next year

Galway need a helluva lot more than that I fear.
Galway is full of players of a similar middling standard

Quote from: galwayman on September 07, 2014, 08:53:36 PM

QuoteIf Galway could get a few lads who can score long range points we could be there or thereabouts next year

Galway need a helluva lot more than that I fear.
Galway is full of players of a similar middling standard

Sure so were Tipp last year. A bit of momentum can do wonder for performance levels.

Quote from: David McKeown on September 07, 2014, 08:42:01 PM

Quote from: didlyi on September 07, 2014, 05:39:34 PM
Yes I thought the ref had a great game and added to what was probably the best AI final Ive seen.

I thought the ref had a stinker and let Tipp backs away with murder in the first half (although I understand these were hard to see on the tv) also I thought it was against the rule book for a ref to ask an umpire about where a foul occurred.  Nearly had huge ramifications on the game.

Ref had a shocker on the big calls. Neither penalty was actually a penalty, though that's a moot point as they were missed, but how Stapleton stayed on the field after pulling Power's faceguard is beyond me.

No advantage in a penalty anymore, probably less than 50/50 chance of scoring now.

Unbelievable standard of play.

What a day. Top quality hurling. Doesn't get much better than that. All Ireland hurling day is one of those days that shouldn't be missed. Met some hallions today. Made for a great days craic.  :)

Quote from: theskull1 on September 07, 2014, 11:45:44 PM
What a day. Top quality hurling. Doesn't get much better than that. All Ireland hurling day is one of those days that shouldn't be missed. Met some hallions today. Made for a great days craic.  :)

Those Loughgiel ones aren't the worst  ;)

It was fairly jaw dropping in the second half, the standard of hurling, the pace and intensity they were doing it at.

Actually not sure you could see a higher standard, we said that after 2009 I suppose & I think today surpassed it.

Regardless of where it stands in the pantheon, we should just enjoy it while we have it.

Eddie took a cheap shot at Barry Kelly on the Sunday Game tonight. KK mind games.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 08, 2014, 12:09:37 AM
Eddie took a cheap shot at Barry Kelly on the Sunday Game tonight. KK mind games.

Eddie Keher, Eddie O' Connor, Eddie Brennan. The conveyor belt is running well down there.

There were a few strange calls yesterday and Barry was lucky that last free tailed just wide. Think I'll watch the full game again today if I have time. There's no point in a highlights package for a game as good as that. 

Quote from: Zulu on September 07, 2014, 05:50:18 PM

To be fair they were incredibly poor penalties, the first one in particular. I don't think we can say the penalty is unfair yet though it does appear to be. I think it is fine in distance terms but we could look at the amount of players on the line.

I agree they were poor penalties but when the Tipp players were running through the Kilkenny backs made no effort to play the ball and blatantly dragged them down. There's no punishment. Just having the keeper on the line would be ok for penalties but sometimes players get deliberately dragged down outside the box when they're though on goal(like Tipp's second penalty yesterday) so they'd need to look at that situation too.  As it stands, the best option for a defender is to drag an attacker down when he's running at goal rather than even risk trying a legit tackle that might let him in.

Great match! Murphy v Maher was worth the admission alone never mind the incredible score fest! Thought if anything Tipp played the better hurling but Kilkenny have a serious workrate.

What's the story with Hogan, seemed to spend quite a bit of time stretching his calf in the last 15mins before coming off! Hopefully just cramp rather than a pull.  He was amazing second half

I'm glad for everybody's sake that O'Dwyer's free tailed wide. It would not have been a fitting end to what can only be described as an epic.

Eddie did take a bit of a cheap shot at Barry Kelly last night. The free he didn't give Eoin Larkin was mind boggling.

Barry Kelly let a lot go yesterday, on balance Tipp benefitted from a couple of howlers, but I think the result was fair. JUst when you thought last years final was awesome up steps another one. Fair play to both teams sport as it was meant to be. 82,000 spectators, on Sky TV and Joey Barton tweeting about it. How many mentions did it get on Radio Ulsters Sports Report emmmm lets see now, maybe after reporting on England's cricket team....ahh no not one fuc*ing word. The biggest event on the Island over the weekend doesn't justify a mention.

Quote from: orangeman on September 08, 2014, 09:04:52 AM
I'm glad for everybody's sake that O'Dwyer's free tailed wide. It would not have been a fitting end to what can only be described as an epic.

Eddie did take a bit of a cheap shot at Barry Kelly last night. The free he didn't give Eoin Larkin was mind boggling.

There was no call for Eddie to say that, although Kelly was initially pretty hard on Eoin Larkin and you got the feeling that he'd earmarked Larkin as a bit of a diver and his judgement was a bit clouded.
Tipp defenders do have a habit of throwing out the spare arm, and got away with a few yesterday, but that's all too common in hurling today by all teams.
The last free was a strange one, did he blow Hogan up for charging as that's the only thing I could think off?
Although initially I thought overcarrying, but on replay he didn't and released the ball as soon as he hit the deck.

Apart from that I think Kelly got far more right than he did wrong and allowed a lot of niggly stuff go and kept the game as high paced as was allowed. He's certainly improved as a ref from his early days blowing every farts end in the NHL Div2.

As highlighted by the RTE panel, the selection of Walter Walsh meant the high ball would be pumped into what must have been perceived a weakish Tipp fullback line under the high ball. TBH it was a tactic that did work to an extent but KK fluffed a few very good goal opportunities before TJ Reid did finally set up Richie Power for the deft little flick over Gleeson, very tidy piece of hurling to take that goal. Also the way Reid who initially was well marshalled by Barry, who had him where he wanted him, was on his catching arm as the ball was dropping only for Reid to spin behind him and come up on the other side where Reid had the advantage and take the ball as it dropped, crafty bollox.
At the other end Tipp were running the KK backs all over the place (something KK would be better known for) and were getting their match ups right with Bonner Maher picked up by all and sundry until it was decided that Paul Murphy would do the best job on him, and whilst Murphy did well Bonner Maher was still causing problems and dangerous throughout, some horse of a man for one man.
That battle was a microcosm of other battles all over the pitch, one man on top, then the opponent and so on, Paudie Maher was lording it for a while, then came Richie Hogan, rattled over a few points off him, then the change to bring on Mickey Cahill to do a marking job, very interesting game all the way through.
Thought Lar and big Callanan also contributed well and Lar was set to get a goal and nearly succeeded where it looked as if no goal chance was on. He exercised some of the demons from his last AI against KK, but they won't be fully exercised until the win is achieved in three weeks time.

Tipp won many battles yesterday, midfield being one area, and their defence were sound if still a bit susceptible to the high ball in and around the square, plus were picking off a lot of nice scores in their forwards throughout.
Cody and KK in my mind have more to mull over especially if Richie Hogan is struggling with an injury. The goals kept them in it when it looked like Tipp would pull away near the end of the first half, but no better man to pick the bones out of this game and come up with solutions than Cody.

Didn't get to see replay or highlights of game but I thought the ref got the last free spot on.

By the way the sliotar is far too light for the modern game and scoring far too easy. Really have to either make it bigger or heavier imo.

For penalties there should be only the goalie on the line with the current "Nash Rule" kept.

Quote from: Canalman on September 08, 2014, 09:40:03 AM
Didn't get to see replay or highlights of game but I thought the ref got the last free spot on.

By the way the sliotar is far too light for the modern game and scoring far too easy. Really have to either make it bigger or heavier imo.

For penalties there should be only the goalie on the line with the current "Nash Rule" kept.

In agreement on both counts.

the sliothar does indeed need changing, it can be the same size and even the same weight, just change the responsiveness of the material used in its core. Its almost like one of the super balls you used to get as a kid that flew off the walls like a bullet.
That free at the end was something like 97 metres out according to the TV graphic and it was still over the height of the posts as it was dropping into the Canal End.

Quote from: Canalman on September 08, 2014, 09:40:03 AM
Didn't get to see replay or highlights of game but I thought the ref got the last free spot on.

By the way the sliotar is far too light for the modern game and scoring far too easy. Really have to either make it bigger or heavier imo.

For penalties there should be only the goalie on the line with the current "Nash Rule" kept.

You might have a different view when you review it.

Sligo that is very light - the minors were scoring from very long distances as well. 2 men on the line for a penalty might be the answer.

I wouldn't go along with those who say that KK defence deliberately pulled down Tipp attackers.

Quote from: johnneycool on September 08, 2014, 09:39:31 AM

Quote from: orangeman on September 08, 2014, 09:04:52 AM
I'm glad for everybody's sake that O'Dwyer's free tailed wide. It would not have been a fitting end to what can only be described as an epic.

Eddie did take a bit of a cheap shot at Barry Kelly last night. The free he didn't give Eoin Larkin was mind boggling.

There was no call for Eddie to say that, although Kelly was initially pretty hard on Eoin Larkin and you got the feeling that he'd earmarked Larkin as a bit of a diver and his judgement was a bit clouded.
Tipp defenders do have a habit of throwing out the spare arm, and got away with a few yesterday, but that's all too common in hurling today by all teams.
The last free was a strange one, did he blow Hogan up for charging as that's the only thing I could think off?
Although initially I thought overcarrying, but on replay he didn't and released the ball as soon as he hit the deck.

Apart from that I think Kelly got far more right than he did wrong and allowed a lot of niggly stuff go and kept the game as high paced as was allowed. He's certainly improved as a ref from his early days blowing every farts end in the NHL Div2.

As highlighted by the RTE panel, the selection of Walter Walsh meant the high ball would be pumped into what must have been perceived a weakish Tipp fullback line under the high ball. TBH it was a tactic that did work to an extent but KK fluffed a few very good goal opportunities before TJ Reid did finally set up Richie Power for the deft little flick over Gleeson, very tidy piece of hurling to take that goal. Also the way Reid who initially was well marshalled by Barry, who had him where he wanted him, was on his catching arm as the ball was dropping only for Reid to spin behind him and come up on the other side where Reid had the advantage and take the ball as it dropped, crafty bollox.
At the other end Tipp were running the KK backs all over the place (something KK would be better known for) and were getting their match ups right with Bonner Maher picked up by all and sundry until it was decided that Paul Murphy would do the best job on him, and whilst Murphy did well Bonner Maher was still causing problems and dangerous throughout, some horse of a man for one man.
That battle was a microcosm of other battles all over the pitch, one man on top, then the opponent and so on, Paudie Maher was lording it for a while, then came Richie Hogan, rattled over a few points off him, then the change to bring on Mickey Cahill to do a marking job, very interesting game all the way through.
Thought Lar and big Callanan also contributed well and Lar was set to get a goal and nearly succeeded where it looked as if no goal chance was on. He exercised some of the demons from his last AI against KK, but they won't be fully exercised until the win is achieved in three weeks time.

Tipp won many battles yesterday, midfield being one area, and their defence were sound if still a bit susceptible to the high ball in and around the square, plus were picking off a lot of nice scores in their forwards throughout.
Cody and KK in my mind have more to mull over especially if Richie Hogan is struggling with an injury. The goals kept them in it when it looked like Tipp would pull away near the end of the first half, but no better man to pick the bones out of this game and come up with solutions than Cody.

The Larkin thing happened right in front of me. 100 percent dive. He's been doing it all year so kelly has him sussed

Didn't see the hogan free that well at match but seen it on TV. He went on safari down the middle looked up and charged then dived
Two great decisions form a ref I didn't have much time for to yesterday
If Cody or whoever hadn't of got willie o connor to influence the ref via the national press all week he might have been different

Your right the tipp boys where using the spare arm
But so where Kilkenny backs on bonner
He was letting it go so no biggy
Best game I ever watched. Nobody deserved to lose

On the penalties debate, for me anyways:-
The first penalty was a penalty. Maher was fouled outside the square and he made it into the square where the defender continued to foul him so I would argue that ref gave advantage until he got into the square and then blew for a penalty.
The 2nd penalty, foul was outside and penalty should not have been awarded. Corbett's momentum propelled him well into the square by the time he hit the deck.
Both penaltys where poorly hit and easily saved.

On the sunday game, wasn't overly keen on Brennan bringing up the Kelly last 6 games for Kilkenny and then trying to say that it wasn't something he had an issue with.
Also, for years we've heard the phrase "Cody doesn't do sentiment", yet Shefflin came on with 66 minutes gone and Kilkenny 3 points up -didn't touch the ball and Kilkenny almost lost the game. I'm not saying it was Shefflins fault but surely there was a question mark over making this substitution when the game was in the melting pot?

Anyways, really looking forward to the replay now. Still no idea who is going to win.

Fantastic excitement, great day and a brilliant occasion. I know it's cliche to say no team deserved to lose, and they probably didn't, but I'd love to have seen Hawkeye say 'Score' at the end there :)

At the game, sometimes it's hard to analyse specific incidents in it from the stand, especially a hectic one like that, but I suppose a couple of points for me are

1 - Tipperary will have to be happy with the amount of goal chances they created. On another day Bonner, Corbett and Callinan would all have seen their shots rattle the net. Murphy was excellent, but I think Tipp will feel that if they create anything like that again, they will be in good shape.

2 - Lar Corbett, Seamus Callinan and John O'Dwyer stood up today and won ball, scored and made great runs. When it was slipping away, Lar came out the field and won some great ball, set up chances and set up points. Fair play to Callinan as well. JJ Delaney will beat him up a stick if the ball is pucked down on top of him, but when he gets those long legs moving out to the side, he proved he can get ball, and score.

3 - Paul Murphy and Bonner Maher was worth the admission fee alone. Almost a mirror opposite of the Callinan/JJ duel, in that every ball that came down between them, you fancied Bonner. When they had to move towards it, Murphy won most of them well.

4 - Kelly had a decent game I thought, although Kilkenny definitely had some cause for complaint with some of the decisions. Not bad as such, but contentious. I saw the Hogan free last night, and I agree with Kelly. At the game I thought Paudie cleaned him out, but last night I can see why Kelly gave it. Paudie seems to have stood his ground and Hogan turned the shoulder into him. That said, Paudie's arms came up and could have been seen as a shove. This really could have gone either way. I'd say Barry was happy it went wide :) I couldn't believe Kieron Bergins challenge on Larkin wasn't a foul, it looked like a bloody helicopter challenge. I think you are right about Larkin's card being marked because Kelly pulled him for diving early on and it looked harsh too.

5 - Richie Hogan is some operator as well. Floats around, picks up ball and scores. Simple as. Great player.

6 - TJ Reid caused trouble, and is another deadly player when he gets a chance. The goal was typical Kilkenny.

7 - When Tipp run at Kilkenny, a lá Lar, Bonner and Callinan, they are in big trouble. When Kilkenny do the same, it's likewise. Winning ball has never been more vital.

8 - Noel McGrath looked like he was going to have a nightmare. In the first half when he took way too long to clear a ball in midfield, and got hooked, as well as hit a bad wide, I thought he was gone. Credit to him for standing up and hitting some important scores later on. He's a grand lad, and really dedicated. It's hard to see him struggling but it was great to see him come into it. Hopefully he'll play well in the replay.

9 - Finally, at the game, I thought there were some outstanding defensive performances from Cathal Barrett, Paddy Stapleton (barring one brain fart),  JJ Delaney, Paul Murphy etc etc. To see the scoreboard at the end just shows that the attackers were absolutely deadly when they got chances.

10 - The Replay will be interesting again. Tipp got an awful lot right, and had good showings from the likes of Lar, Noel McGrath, Callinan, O'Dwyer. Will they do that again the next day? Will Mick Fennelly and Ritchie Power be as peripheral again for Kilkenny? Hard to see that. Will Ritchie Hogan be fit?

Great days to be alive.

Shite, nearly forgot, on the penalties, I think both were struck poorly. Bubbles clearly paced out his, so I don't think the new rule 'constrained' his swing as such. He just went for low and hard and didn't really get the 'hard' part.

I think, at this stage, a 1 v 1 from 20 metres out with the keeper is the best solution. The Keeper normally goes out in front of the defenders anyway, so I'd say let it be more like a Football penalty. I'm glad the Nash rule came in because someone was going to be hurt badly, but people who say it's gotten a lot harder to score one are probably right.

Quote from: AZOffaly on September 08, 2014, 11:40:54 AM
Fantastic excitement, great day and a brilliant occasion. I know it's cliche to say no team deserved to lose, and they probably didn't, but I'd love to have seen Hawkeye say 'Score' at the end there :)

At the game, sometimes it's hard to analyse specific incidents in it from the stand, especially a hectic one like that, but I suppose a couple of points for me are

1 - Tipperary will have to be happy with the amount of goal chances they created. On another day Bonner, Corbett and Callinan would all have seen their shots rattle the net. Murphy was excellent, but I think Tipp will feel that if they create anything like that again, they will be in good shape.

2 - Lar Corbett, Seamus Callinan and John O'Dwyer stood up today and won ball, scored and made great runs. When it was slipping away, Lar came out the field and won some great ball, set up chances and set up points. Fair play to Callinan as well. JJ Delaney will beat him up a stick if the ball is pucked down on top of him, but when he gets those long legs moving out to the side, he proved he can get ball, and score.

3 - Paul Murphy and Bonner Maher was worth the admission fee alone. Almost a mirror opposite of the Callinan/JJ duel, in that every ball that came down between them, you fancied Bonner. When they had to move towards it, Murphy won most of them well.

4 - Kelly had a decent game I thought, although Kilkenny definitely had some cause for complaint with some of the decisions. Not bad as such, but contentious. I saw the Hogan free last night, and I agree with Kelly. At the game I thought Paudie cleaned him out, but last night I can see why Kelly gave it. Paudie seems to have stood his ground and Hogan turned the shoulder into him. That said, Paudie's arms came up and could have been seen as a shove. This really could have gone either way. I'd say Barry was happy it went wide :) I couldn't believe Kieron Bergins challenge on him wasn't a foul, it looked like a bloody helicopter challenge. I think you are right about Larkin's card being marked because Kelly pulled him for diving early on and it looked harsh too.

5 - Richie Hogan is some operator as well. Floats around, picks up ball and scores. Simple as. Great player.

6 - TJ Reid caused trouble, and is another deadly player when he gets a chance. The goal was typical Kilkenny.

7 - When Tipp run at Kilkenny, a lá Lar, Bonner and Callinan, they are in big trouble. When Kilkenny do the same, it's likewise. Winning ball has never been more vital.

8 - Noel McGrath looked like he was going to have a nightmare. In the first half when he took way to long to clear a ball in midfield, and got hooked, as well as hit a bad wide, I thought he was gone. Credit to him for standing up and hitting some important scores later on. He's a grand lad, and really dedicated. It's hard to see him struggling but it was great to see him come into it. Hopefully he'll play well in the replay.

9 - Finally, at the game, I thought there were some outstanding defensive performances from Cathal Barrett, Paddy Stapleton (barring one brain fart),  JJ Delaney, Paul Murphy etc etc. To see the scoreboard at the end just shows that the attackers were absolutely deadly when they got chances.

10 - The Replay will be interesting again. Tipp got an awful lot right, and had good showings from the likes of Lar, Noel McGrath, Callinan, O'Dwyer. Will they do that again the next day? Will Mick Fennelly and Ritchie Power be as peripheral again for Kilkenny? Hard to see that. Will Ritchie Hogan be fit?

Great days to be alive.

I thought the same - but with Peter Mc Kenna on Hawk eye it was never going to be given.

Colin Fennelly was subbed yesterday. He'll not be as bad again.

I don't know what it was but there were a good few sloppy / intercepted passes and ones that went over the line but this could be seen as nit picking given the absolutely incredibly high standard of play. The skill level was ridiculous. Power's goals were as Donal Og said a thing of beauty.

Fantastic game and I'm glad it was a draw as it would have been a shame if Tipp had won with that free at the end as it was a dubious decision and would have caused a lot of controversy if that decided a classic game. Plenty replays in hurling and football this year.

Quote from: orangeman on September 08, 2014, 11:47:40 AM
I thought the same - but with Peter Mc Kenna on Hawk eye it was never going to be given.

Was given as wide because it was wide, nothing more! What should cause more ire was the fact that the last free was given around the 69.25 mark and at that point, a minute's additional time was called for. Bubbles took his time over the free, then we had Hawkeye for 20 or 30 seconds yet somehow the match was over.

Overall, just thought it was an incredible final. Better than '09 and last year, which were the two best in my memory.

Think KK have more room for improvement heading into the final as every single Tipp player showed up whereas KK had a few average performances. Richie Hogan's fitness could be a huge turning point though. Some very sloppy play from a few KK players. Think Cillian Buckley hand passed it out over the sideline twice. Not sure about Buckley at LHB. He always seems to strike his clearances on the back foot at a trajectory that sends the sliotar way up into the clouds and take away from the pace of the attack, Remarkable to say that Richie Power was quiet and still managed 2-1, both of the goals being sensational, although Gleeson should have been out to close the angle. He should have had another simple point and that decision to pass inside will be one he regrets for a while if they don't win the replay.

On the officiating - challenge on Larkin a clear foul. Larkin was inside him and away and was wrapped around the midriff and cleaned out of it. Hogan charged in my book but by Kelly's gesture, I thought he gave the free for a dive, similar to what he did to Larkin in the first half. Don't think you can give a dive just because someone hits the deck. These men are 6'2 or 6'3 and 14st and charging at each other full pelt. Of course they'll get flattened. Some of the earlier decisions to go to Hawkeye were remarkable. The Fennelly point was two feet inside the post ffs. Neither foul for the penalties was inside the box. Contrary to an earlier statement, Murphy did not continue to foul inside the box - when they were both on the ground he was still outside and Maher was just inside. How Kelly missed Gleeson fouling the ball I'll never know. As clear as daylight and only asked his umpires when he saw how furious Power was about it that there had to be something to it. Stapleton pulled the visor - end of discussion. They've been clamping down all year and to miss it on the biggest day of the lot didn't look good.

Of the debate around the "Nash rule", I'd like to see TJ hit a few before we decide that the advantage now lies with the defenders. Both penatlies yesterday were shite strikes which was far more contributory to them being saved than the distance from where they were struck. If a penalty was struck from the 21 the way TJ struck his shot for the goal I think you'd see plenty scored. Of more concern should be the blatant fouling by all players in lifting the ball for both frees and penalties. It's meant to be a jab or a roll and flick. Far too many players are getting away with balancing ball on the bas for a step to improve their strike.

Quote from: gallsman on September 08, 2014, 12:33:50 PM

Quote from: orangeman on September 08, 2014, 11:47:40 AM
I thought the same - but with Peter Mc Kenna on Hawk eye it was never going to be given.

Was given as wide because it was wide, nothing more!

Correct, and isn't it great to have it? Imagine if the umpire was swayed by the Tipp crowd behind the goals and gave it?

Quote from: gallsman on September 08, 2014, 12:33:50 PM

Of more concern should be the blatant fouling by all players in lifting the ball for both frees and penalties. It's meant to be a jab or a roll and flick. Far too many players are getting away with balancing ball on the bas for a step to improve their strike.

that's going on with years. I remember DJ and Nicky English being accused of the same thing.

Quote from: AZOffaly on September 08, 2014, 12:58:43 PM

Quote from: gallsman on September 08, 2014, 12:33:50 PM
Of more concern should be the blatant fouling by all players in lifting the ball for both frees and penalties. It's meant to be a jab or a roll and flick. Far too many players are getting away with balancing ball on the bas for a step to improve their strike.

that's going on with years. I remember DJ and Nicky English being accused of the same thing.

Oh I don't dispute that - just pointing out that having debates about the Nash penalties for safety reasons (I don't buy that argument) particularly en vogue when some of the fundamentals of the game (by players at top level, thus setting the model for youngsters) are ignored to the point that everyone fouls the balls. Keepers striking placed balls with keeper hurls shoud be banned.

You don't buy that Nash's penalties were dangerous?

Quote from: AZOffaly on September 08, 2014, 01:16:50 PM
You don't buy that Nash's penalties were dangerous?

No more so than TJ's rocket yesterday. Other than a bruising or getting the stuffing knocked out of you, the only real danger I can see is taking a strike like that to the bollocks. If Gleeson's had been in the way of TJ's, they'd be in an awful lot of trouble. How do you regulate that?

Make Nash take the penalty with regular hurl and you reduce the velocity first.

If you are supposed to stand 'static' on the line, and I can throw a ball in the air approx 7 metres, and strike it at full force, unopposed, right at the adams apple or the nads, I think that's fairly dangerous. :D

Quote from: AZOffaly on September 08, 2014, 01:30:55 PM
If you are supposed to stand 'static' on the line, and I can throw a ball in the air approx 7 metres, and strike it at full force, unopposed, right at the adams apple or the nads, I think that's fairly dangerous. :D

When it comes off the sweet spot though, that'll always be the case, in traffic or not. TJ's shot could potentially have had the same effect if Gleeson had been unlucky enough to take it full force. Letting players strike it with the bigger bas and ramping up the velocity accordingly is more dangerous that the distance in my book accordingly.

It's a game where thirty lads flail three foot pieces of wood about the place for seventy minutes. Nobody wears cups, shin pads and only a few continue to wear ash guards (although after what happened Michael Rice maybe they should be looked at as compulsory). It's a dangerous sport full stop, that's part of what makes it so exciting. I think 7/8 yards difference in from where a placed ball is struck is relatively down the list of safety issues in the game. Correct the fouls when lifting the ball and you wouldn't have too many able to move a 21 yard free in to the 13 and still get a god strike off.

Quote from: gallsman on September 08, 2014, 12:33:50 PM

Quote from: orangeman on September 08, 2014, 11:47:40 AM
I thought the same - but with Peter Mc Kenna on Hawk eye it was never going to be given.

Was given as wide because it was wide, nothing more! What should cause more ire was the fact that the last free was given around the 69.25 mark and at that point, a minute's additional time was called for. Bubbles took his time over the free, then we had Hawkeye for 20 or 30 seconds yet somehow the match was over.

Overall, just thought it was an incredible final. Better than '09 and last year, which were the two best in my memory.

Think KK have more room for improvement heading into the final as every single Tipp player showed up whereas KK had a few average performances. Richie Hogan's fitness could be a huge turning point though. Some very sloppy play from a few KK players. Think Cillian Buckley hand passed it out over the sideline twice. Not sure about Buckley at LHB. He always seems to strike his clearances on the back foot at a trajectory that sends the sliotar way up into the clouds and take away from the pace of the attack, Remarkable to say that Richie Power was quiet and still managed 2-1, both of the goals being sensational, although Gleeson should have been out to close the angle. He should have had another simple point and that decision to pass inside will be one he regrets for a while if they don't win the replay.

On the officiating - challenge on Larkin a clear foul. Larkin was inside him and away and was wrapped around the midriff and cleaned out of it. Hogan charged in my book but by Kelly's gesture, I thought he gave the free for a dive, similar to what he did to Larkin in the first half. Don't think you can give a dive just because someone hits the deck. These men are 6'2 or 6'3 and 14st and charging at each other full pelt. Of course they'll get flattened. Some of the earlier decisions to go to Hawkeye were remarkable. The Fennelly point was two feet inside the post ffs. Neither foul for the penalties was inside the box. Contrary to an earlier statement, Murphy did not continue to foul inside the box - when they were both on the ground he was still outside and Maher was just inside. How Kelly missed Gleeson fouling the ball I'll never know. As clear as daylight and only asked his umpires when he saw how furious Power was about it that there had to be something to it. Stapleton pulled the visor - end of discussion. They've been clamping down all year and to miss it on the biggest day of the lot didn't look good.

Of the debate around the "Nash rule", I'd like to see TJ hit a few before we decide that the advantage now lies with the defenders. Both penatlies yesterday were shite strikes which was far more contributory to them being saved than the distance from where they were struck. If a penalty was struck from the 21 the way TJ struck his shot for the goal I think you'd see plenty scored. Of more concern should be the blatant fouling by all players in lifting the ball for both frees and penalties. It's meant to be a jab or a roll and flick. Far too many players are getting away with balancing ball on the bas for a step to improve their strike.

Only winding.

Quote from: gallsman on September 08, 2014, 12:33:50 PM

Quote from: orangeman on September 08, 2014, 11:47:40 AM
I thought the same - but with Peter Mc Kenna on Hawk eye it was never going to be given.

. Stapleton pulled the visor - end of discussion. They've been clamping down all year and to miss it on the biggest day of the lot didn't look good.

After Richie gave him a push to take him beyond the ball that is, but yes red card straight away for his reaction.

Davy Fitz would have been pulling the stuffing out of the sofa watching that considering he lost a player for it during the year!

I think we all know you'd nearly have to kill someone to get a straight red card in the latter stages of the hurling championship especially if the game is in Croke Park.

Benny Dunne was the last and a pretty obvious one that I can remember although Ryan O'Dwyer picked up a softish double yellow in the semi last year, but ever since all we've heard about is the softish sendings off for Henry (god forbid), Pa Horgan and O'Dwyer where the refs ruined the games FFS..

Quote from: gallsman on September 08, 2014, 01:38:41 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on September 08, 2014, 01:30:55 PM
If you are supposed to stand 'static' on the line, and I can throw a ball in the air approx 7 metres, and strike it at full force, unopposed, right at the adams apple or the nads, I think that's fairly dangerous. :D

When it comes off the sweet spot though, that'll always be the case, in traffic or not. TJ's shot could potentially have had the same effect if Gleeson had been unlucky enough to take it full force. Letting players strike it with the bigger bas and ramping up the velocity accordingly is more dangerous that the distance in my book accordingly.

It's a game where thirty lads flail three foot pieces of wood about the place for seventy minutes. Nobody wears cups, shin pads and only a few continue to wear ash guards (although after what happened Michael Rice maybe they should be looked at as compulsory). It's a dangerous sport full stop, that's part of what makes it so exciting. I think 7/8 yards difference in from where a placed ball is struck is relatively down the list of safety issues in the game. Correct the fouls when lifting the ball and you wouldn't have too many able to move a 21 yard free in to the 13 and still get a god strike off.

I understand all that, but the issue with the 20 metre penalty was that the lads on the line were sitting ducks. The momentum was all coming one way, and it was getting so close in it was a) dangerous, and b) Impossible to stop without doing exactly what Kelly did that time. (And did you see the lump on his leg after it?)

Ticket prices reduced to €50  for stand, €25 for hill and €10 for the kids.

Who said the GAA is all about taking as much money as possible from patrons ?.  ;)

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/ref-makes-a-run-for-it-during-hurling-match-641405.html

Could we get this man to ref the replay ?.

Just watching the game again here on sky. It's maybe significant that in the first 14 minutes the commentator makes 4 separate references to Kilkenny being upset with Kelly's decisions. That's before the issue of the incorrectly awarded penalties.

Still a superb game mind

Quote from: David McKeown on September 08, 2014, 04:37:58 PM
Just watching the game again here on sky. It's maybe significant that in the first 14 minutes the commentator makes 4 separate references to Kilkenny being upset with Kelly's decisions. That's before the issue of the incorrectly awarded penalties.

Still a superb game mind

Donal Og on the radio made the same references but said Kelly had done a good job.

Richie Hogan needs to ditch those predator boots, was the only player i noticed losing his footing especially when the surface was so good.

Quote from: orangeman on September 08, 2014, 02:47:42 PM
Ticket prices reduced to €50  for stand, €25 for hill and €10 for the kids.

Who said the GAA is all about taking as much money as possible from patrons ?.  ;)

I haven't been at a game in Croker for a few years as I'm out of the country but is it 50 for all stand seats? Surely there should be different prices for different parts of the stand given the vast difference in the quality of the view you get. Are there reduced rates for some of the most awful seats?

I wonder how the best seats are allocated?

Best final I have ever seen and I was delighted to see that last free go wide to give us another match. I thought that Barry Kelly was harsh on kk to be honest, Eoin Larkin should have been awarded a free early in the match and both penalties were wrongly awarded considering that the offences were outside the box, therefore justice was done when they were both missed. Only 2 players have scored penalties now since the rule was amended, joe canning and Patrick Horgan so it is possible to score them even if the advantage to the fouled team is less now. I thought that Eddie Brennan was stupid to come out with his comments about Kelly though even if there is an element of truth about it. It came across all parochial and his objectivity would be questioned now IMHO .I would fully expect kk to win the replay now, with a different ref and so many players who can improve from Sundays display. Both fennellys and wally Walsh were poor in my opinion so expect to see changes there for the replay. Huge credit to tipp though, the players who had not really lit it up before the final, lar, noel mc grath, played well along with bubbles and seamus callinan. Bonner doesn't have a bad game ever it seems and if he ever got injured you'd have to worry about tipp. I would love to attend the replay as the atmosphere will be truly amazing but the match won't live up to the standards of the first one, I would say. Roll on sept 27th.

On the flip side of the penalty debate if he'd awarded frees Tipp would likely have had 2 more points on the board so the penalty ended up penalising tipp more than kk...

Quote from: Asal Mor on September 09, 2014, 07:52:23 AM

Quote from: orangeman on September 08, 2014, 02:47:42 PM
Ticket prices reduced to €50  for stand, €25 for hill and €10 for the kids.

Who said the GAA is all about taking as much money as possible from patrons ?.  ;)

I haven't been at a game in Croker for a few years as I'm out of the country but is it 50 for all stand seats? Surely there should be different prices for different parts of the stand given the vast difference in the quality of the view you get. Are there reduced rates for some of the most awful seats?

I wonder how the best seats are allocated?

In fairness I don't think I've had a 'bad' view from any seat in Croke Park.

Quote from: Last Man on September 08, 2014, 08:38:07 PM
Richie Hogan needs to ditch those predator boots, was the only player i noticed losing his footing especially when the surface was so good.

Thought that myself - not the first time he's had issues with his footing either. Wonder if it had anything to do with him going down later in the match. Still, MOTM with six from play - I'd gladly take a few slips and slides for that kind of performance.

cicfada

Maybe the replay 2 years ago was a damb squib, but last years surpassed the first day out. I'll be going down hoping for something similar. Can see KK making at least 2 changes to the starting 15 the next day. Both Holden and Walsh looked off the pace for that level of hurling.

On the penalty debate: A penalty needs to be an advantage to the attacking team. Bringing it back to the 21 has taken that away. Nash making it a health and safety issue has caused a knee jerk reaction. Can see why they didn't make it 18 yard out before the strike to give the attacking team the advantage but still give the defenders time enough to turn their 4rse to it  :D

Question about the free the ref gave against the tipp keeper for lifting the ball in the square.  From watching it  barry seemed to blow his whistle for a free out but then went in to his umpires for a word. He then gave the free to kilkenny.  My question is did he reverse his decision and if he did was he allowed to?  Growing up we were always told not to slabber at refs because they couldnt change a decision they had made.

Quote from: AZOffaly on September 09, 2014, 09:52:56 AM

In fairness I don't think I've had a 'bad' view from any seat in Croke Park.

I got a particularly bad seat once. Near the canal end but not in it, right at the back of the lower Cusack???(could have been the Hogan) under the Premium boxes. You couldn't see the ball once it went high in the air. I paid full price for them too. Luckily it wasn't full and I was able to move to a better one.

I'm not fond of the upper levels. Feel a bit too removed from it all. Love a Premium ticket if I can get one though.

Quote from: cicfada on September 09, 2014, 09:24:10 AM
Best final I have ever seen and I was delighted to see that last free go wide to give us another match. I thought that Barry Kelly was harsh on kk to be honest, Eoin Larkin should have been awarded a free early in the match and both penalties were wrongly awarded considering that the offences were outside the box, therefore justice was done when they were both missed. Only 2 players have scored penalties now since the rule was amended, joe canning and Patrick Horgan so it is possible to score them even if the advantage to the fouled team is less now. I thought that Eddie Brennan was stupid to come out with his comments about Kelly though even if there is an element of truth about it. It came across all parochial and his objectivity would be questioned now IMHO .I would fully expect kk to win the replay now, with a different ref and so many players who can improve from Sundays display. Both fennellys and wally Walsh were poor in my opinion so expect to see changes there for the replay. Huge credit to tipp though, the players who had not really lit it up before the final, lar, noel mc grath, played well along with bubbles and seamus callinan. Bonner doesn't have a bad game ever it seems and if he ever got injured you'd have to worry about tipp. I would love to attend the replay as the atmosphere will be truly amazing but the match won't live up to the standards of the first one, I would say. Roll on sept 27th.

How much improvement is in KK though? Walter Walsh almost certainly won't start, Holden may not, 2 Fennellys almost certainly will, would expect Padraig Walsh and Taggy Fogarty to come in.  What does that leave on the bench for them? An ageing, and increasingly irrelevant Shefflin, Tommy Walsh whom Cody doesn't seem to trust, ditto Lester Ryan. Not a lot of great cover for an ageing and tiring defence there. Reid, Richie Hogan and Richie Power all played excellently but can they play any better, or can the rest of them up it either? Personally, I don't think they can and that they're creaking, but Cody is a master at problem-solving so maybe.

I actually thought Richie Power was poor. I know he got 2-1, but in general play I thought he was well handled. He got a lovely point out under the Cusack, and finished his goals well, but I think he could be a lot more involved on another day.

Quote from: andoireabu on September 09, 2014, 12:57:38 PM
Question about the free the ref gave against the tipp keeper for lifting the ball in the square.  From watching it  barry seemed to blow his whistle for a free out but then went in to his umpires for a word. He then gave the free to kilkenny.  My question is did he reverse his decision and if he did was he allowed to?  Growing up we were always told not to slabber at refs because they couldnt change a decision they had made.

He only bothered to consult with umpires after Power started screaming about it - while ultimately "right", he definitely shouldn't be getting influenced by players. Was as clear as day, dunno what Gleeson thought he was doing.

Quote from: gallsman on September 09, 2014, 02:35:04 PM

Quote from: andoireabu on September 09, 2014, 12:57:38 PM
Question about the free the ref gave against the tipp keeper for lifting the ball in the square.  From watching it  barry seemed to blow his whistle for a free out but then went in to his umpires for a word. He then gave the free to kilkenny.  My question is did he reverse his decision and if he did was he allowed to?  Growing up we were always told not to slabber at refs because they couldnt change a decision they had made.

He only bothered to consult with umpires after Power started screaming about it - while ultimately "right", he definitely shouldn't be getting influenced by players. Was as clear as day, dunno what Gleeson thought he was doing.

Panicking I think is what it is called. I think he's a bit of a weak link when the ball is in and around him, decent enough shot stopper, but a bit ropey with a ball and opponent in close proximity.

Have Kilkenny scope for improvement? Well yes they do, think of the goal chances they scuppered, Colin Fennelly trying to flick it to his brother when it was there for him to take on himself, maybe a lack of belief that you wouldn't normally associate with kilkenny forwards like Brennan, Shefflin and DJ. As well as the one Gleeson fumbled and Reid failed to capitalise.
If they had gone in then it was a very different game, so yes they've scope as a good few players were off the pace a bit.
I'd expect Cody to go with a bit more pace, with young Paudie Walsh either in the half back line or midfield depending on the fitness of Richie Hogan, possibly Fogarty as well although he didn't do a whole pile when he was on.
I'd still expect the high ball in and around the square to be deployed by Cody, but big Walter won't be the man they're dropping in on as I think his stickwork is pretty poor and not conducive to the close confines of there, he needs a bit of space to get that stroke away normally after a big shove off the defender. I'd be surprised if he starts.
Cody also used a young corner back in the league who'd a bit of speed about him, Kennedy who seems to have fallen back a bit in the rankings but he looked decent enough, he might replace Holden or drop Conor Fogarty back into a more familiar role, who'd know with Cody.

Can the Tipp forwards have the same rate of efficiency the next day out?

Quote from: johnneycool on September 09, 2014, 03:09:18 PM

Quote from: gallsman on September 09, 2014, 02:35:04 PM

Quote from: andoireabu on September 09, 2014, 12:57:38 PM
Question about the free the ref gave against the tipp keeper for lifting the ball in the square.  From watching it  barry seemed to blow his whistle for a free out but then went in to his umpires for a word. He then gave the free to kilkenny.  My question is did he reverse his decision and if he did was he allowed to?  Growing up we were always told not to slabber at refs because they couldnt change a decision they had made.

He only bothered to consult with umpires after Power started screaming about it - while ultimately "right", he definitely shouldn't be getting influenced by players. Was as clear as day, dunno what Gleeson thought he was doing.

Panicking I think is what it is called. I think he's a bit of a weak link when the ball is in and around him, decent enough shot stopper, but a bit ropey with a ball and opponent in close proximity.

Have Kilkenny scope for improvement? Well yes they do, think of the goal chances they scuppered, Colin Fennelly trying to flick it to his brother when it was there for him to take on himself, maybe a lack of belief that you wouldn't normally associate with kilkenny forwards like Brennan, Shefflin and DJ. As well as the one Gleeson fumbled and Reid failed to capitalise.
If they had gone in then it was a very different game, so yes they've scope as a good few players were off the pace a bit.
I'd expect Cody to go with a bit more pace, with young Paudie Walsh either in the half back line or midfield depending on the fitness of Richie Hogan, possibly Fogarty as well although he didn't do a whole pile when he was on.
I'd still expect the high ball in and around the square to be deployed by Cody, but big Walter won't be the man they're dropping in on as I think his stickwork is pretty poor and not conducive to the close confines of there, he needs a bit of space to get that stroke away normally after a big shove off the defender. I'd be surprised if he starts.
Cody also used a young corner back in the league who'd a bit of speed about him, Kennedy who seems to have fallen back a bit in the rankings but he looked decent enough, he might replace Holden or drop Conor Fogarty back into a more familiar role, who'd know with Cody.

Can the Tipp forwards have the same rate of efficiency the next day out?

On the contrary, I think Walsh's stick work is excellent, especially so for a man of his size. Despite his size, he's not suited to being a target man. Doesn't always come out the best in the physical match ups.

I'd say Holden and W. Walsh might drop out with Joyce and either P. Walsh or Henry starting. Colin Fennelly might just hang on to his place. Assuming he's fit, think Cody will persist with Hogan at midfield ahead of Fennelly but will be quick to swap them if not going well early.

Jesus the worst collision I ever saw on a hurling field was a couple of years (maybe last year) in Thurles when Kilkenny hurled Galway in the league. Walter Walsh absolutely wrote off Fergal Moore. It was a scary, scary collision, and I thought Moore was badly broke up. Walsh never flinched. I'd say the physical stuff would be well up his alley.

Quote from: AZOffaly on September 09, 2014, 03:49:26 PM
Jesus the worst collision I ever saw on a hurling field was a couple of years (maybe last year) in Thurles when Kilkenny hurled Galway in the league. Walter Walsh absolutely wrote off Fergal Moore. It was a scary, scary collision, and I thought Moore was badly broke up. Walsh never flinched. I'd say the physical stuff would be well up his alley.

Paudie Maher handled him without too much bother at times on Sunday.

Not much was made of Gleeson clattering Larkin in the second half:

a) He came out feet first - is this legal?
b) One of the replays on TSG suggested Larkin's hurl reached the sliotar first, but not sure. If so, then surely a foul?

In fairness Paudie Maher is a fairly big lad himself. I think Walter Walsh on the half forward line on Bergin or Brendan Maher would cause Tipp more problems.

Quote from: gallsman on September 09, 2014, 03:46:38 PM

Quote from: johnneycool on September 09, 2014, 03:09:18 PM

Quote from: gallsman on September 09, 2014, 02:35:04 PM

Quote from: andoireabu on September 09, 2014, 12:57:38 PM
Question about the free the ref gave against the tipp keeper for lifting the ball in the square.  From watching it  barry seemed to blow his whistle for a free out but then went in to his umpires for a word. He then gave the free to kilkenny.  My question is did he reverse his decision and if he did was he allowed to?  Growing up we were always told not to slabber at refs because they couldnt change a decision they had made.

He only bothered to consult with umpires after Power started screaming about it - while ultimately "right", he definitely shouldn't be getting influenced by players. Was as clear as day, dunno what Gleeson thought he was doing.

Panicking I think is what it is called. I think he's a bit of a weak link when the ball is in and around him, decent enough shot stopper, but a bit ropey with a ball and opponent in close proximity.

Have Kilkenny scope for improvement? Well yes they do, think of the goal chances they scuppered, Colin Fennelly trying to flick it to his brother when it was there for him to take on himself, maybe a lack of belief that you wouldn't normally associate with kilkenny forwards like Brennan, Shefflin and DJ. As well as the one Gleeson fumbled and Reid failed to capitalise.
If they had gone in then it was a very different game, so yes they've scope as a good few players were off the pace a bit.
I'd expect Cody to go with a bit more pace, with young Paudie Walsh either in the half back line or midfield depending on the fitness of Richie Hogan, possibly Fogarty as well although he didn't do a whole pile when he was on.
I'd still expect the high ball in and around the square to be deployed by Cody, but big Walter won't be the man they're dropping in on as I think his stickwork is pretty poor and not conducive to the close confines of there, he needs a bit of space to get that stroke away normally after a big shove off the defender. I'd be surprised if he starts.
Cody also used a young corner back in the league who'd a bit of speed about him, Kennedy who seems to have fallen back a bit in the rankings but he looked decent enough, he might replace Holden or drop Conor Fogarty back into a more familiar role, who'd know with Cody.

Can the Tipp forwards have the same rate of efficiency the next day out?

On the contrary, I think Walsh's stick work is excellent, especially so for a man of his size. Despite his size, he's not suited to being a target man. Doesn't always come out the best in the physical match ups.

I'd say Holden and W. Walsh might drop out with Joyce and either P. Walsh or Henry starting. Colin Fennelly might just hang on to his place. Assuming he's fit, think Cody will persist with Hogan at midfield ahead of Fennelly but will be quick to swap them if not going well early.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I think he's very slow at getting the stroke away at that level.

TBH, I thought he was pretty quick over the ground when chasing down a ball into the corner of the Cusack and Canal end with Cathal Barrett who's no slouch.

Quote from: johnneycool on September 09, 2014, 04:33:34 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I think he's very slow at getting the stroke away at that level.

TBH, I thought he was pretty quick over the ground when chasing down a ball into the corner of the Cusack and Canal end with Cathal Barrett who's no slouch.

He's no slouch and anyone who dismissed him a Micheal Webster type lumbering oaf was fairly taught a lesson by what he did to Galway in 2012. By all accounts he's been flying in training all summer - the KK lads in Meagher's before the semi-final were shocked he wasn't starting.

I just think for all the size and skill of him he could be an awful lot more dominant. When you have Richie Hogan and, to a lesser extent, Paul Murphy as relatively small lads on the field who are renowned for their ability to win high ball, I think this is somewhere you'd want to see Walsh shine.

Quote from: gallsman on September 09, 2014, 05:12:24 PM
I just think for all the size and skill of him he could be an awful lot more dominant. When you have Richie Hogan and, to a lesser extent, Paul Murphy as relatively small lads on the field who are renowned for their ability to win high ball, I think this is somewhere you'd want to see Walsh shine.

I think it was quite striking just how poor walter was under the dropping ball. There was a few times he was a yard in front of where he should have been. I'd be in agreement with JC. Of course if he danced onto the right ball he'd be hard to stop, but he's lacking in quick footwork and stickwork AFAICS limiting his potential to be a threat. Right half forward would suit him better I think if he was to play anywhere

Quote from: AZOffaly on September 09, 2014, 03:49:26 PM
Jesus the worst collision I ever saw on a hurling field was a couple of years (maybe last year) in Thurles when Kilkenny hurled Galway in the league. Walter Walsh absolutely wrote off Fergal Moore. It was a scary, scary collision, and I thought Moore was badly broke up. Walsh never flinched. I'd say the physical stuff would be well up his alley.

I wad at that match and remember the sight of fergals mother running onto the pitch to see her son. I also remember the comment from a prominent kk official at half time to the Galway board chairman.....after inquiring as to his well being, he said that Moore had. "Looked for it" . A poor comment from him considering the way Moore was brought off to hospital. Walsh has had 1 good match for the cats and that's the replay 2 years ago. He's done nothing since in my opinion and I would expect Padraig Walsh and or taggy  Fogarty to play the next time.

Quote from: gallsman on September 09, 2014, 05:12:24 PM

Quote from: johnneycool on September 09, 2014, 04:33:34 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I think he's very slow at getting the stroke away at that level.

TBH, I thought he was pretty quick over the ground when chasing down a ball into the corner of the Cusack and Canal end with Cathal Barrett who's no slouch.

He's no slouch and anyone who dismissed him a Micheal Webster type lumbering oaf was fairly taught a lesson by what he did to Galway in 2012. By all accounts he's been flying in training all summer - the KK lads in Meagher's before the semi-final were shocked he wasn't starting.

I just think for all the size and skill of him he could be an awful lot more dominant. When you have Richie Hogan and, to a lesser extent, Paul Murphy as relatively small lads on the field who are renowned for their ability to win high ball, I think this is somewhere you'd want to see Walsh shine.

What Cody did with him in the replay against Galway was put him directly on Johnny Coen (who'd a stormer in the drawn game running onto loose ball and generally cleaning everything up) and pumped high ball down on top of him. Coen wasn't strong enough in the air to catch with him and big Walter gave him the big shove to pop over a few points on his right side.
Ever since then everyone has worked him out, even if he does catch it, don't get too close and be there for the block or flick when he tries to get that slow stroke away. I watched him catch at least three balls off Brendan Bugler in a league game on TG4 during the spring, but Bugler never let him hit any of the three before he was called ashore.

Did he catch much ball on Sunday? I think maybe one that I can think of.

I'm only judging him on what I see, but I don't get to see him training so maybe his is flying there, but its not transferring to big games, which he hasn't started too many of this year.

Quote from: johnneycool on September 10, 2014, 09:42:20 AM

Quote from: gallsman on September 09, 2014, 05:12:24 PM

Quote from: johnneycool on September 09, 2014, 04:33:34 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I think he's very slow at getting the stroke away at that level.

TBH, I thought he was pretty quick over the ground when chasing down a ball into the corner of the Cusack and Canal end with Cathal Barrett who's no slouch.

He's no slouch and anyone who dismissed him a Micheal Webster type lumbering oaf was fairly taught a lesson by what he did to Galway in 2012. By all accounts he's been flying in training all summer - the KK lads in Meagher's before the semi-final were shocked he wasn't starting.

I just think for all the size and skill of him he could be an awful lot more dominant. When you have Richie Hogan and, to a lesser extent, Paul Murphy as relatively small lads on the field who are renowned for their ability to win high ball, I think this is somewhere you'd want to see Walsh shine.

What Cody did with him in the replay against Galway was put him directly on Johnny Coen (who'd a stormer in the drawn game running onto loose ball and generally cleaning everything up) and pumped high ball down on top of him. Coen wasn't strong enough in the air to catch with him and big Walter gave him the big shove to pop over a few points on his right side.
Ever since then everyone has worked him out, even if he does catch it, don't get too close and be there for the block or flick when he tries to get that slow stroke away. I watched him catch at least three balls off Brendan Bugler in a league game on TG4 during the spring, but Bugler never let him hit any of the three before he was called ashore.

Did he catch much ball on Sunday? I think maybe one that I can think of.

I'm only judging him on what I see, but I don't get to see him training so maybe his is flying there, but its not transferring to big games, which he hasn't started too many of this year.

Did he not start shining after Donnellan got sent off ?

Quote from: gallsman on September 09, 2014, 04:24:42 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on September 09, 2014, 03:49:26 PM
Jesus the worst collision I ever saw on a hurling field was a couple of years (maybe last year) in Thurles when Kilkenny hurled Galway in the league. Walter Walsh absolutely wrote off Fergal Moore. It was a scary, scary collision, and I thought Moore was badly broke up. Walsh never flinched. I'd say the physical stuff would be well up his alley.

Paudie Maher handled him without too much bother at times on Sunday.

Not much was made of Gleeson clattering Larkin in the second half:

a) He came out feet first - is this legal?
b) One of the replays on TSG suggested Larkin's hurl reached the sliotar first, but not sure. If so, then surely a foul?

Clearly got the ball as the direction of the ball clearly showed before looking at the replay, wasn't really feet first, he (in my book) did rightly. Larkin was fine, tried to milk it a bit me thinks

Watched it all again tonight, as I'd a few more beers than I should have by the final whistle!! serious scoring but great defending also!!

What time is the replay?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 10, 2014, 08:22:58 PM

Quote from: gallsman on September 09, 2014, 04:24:42 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on September 09, 2014, 03:49:26 PM
Jesus the worst collision I ever saw on a hurling field was a couple of years (maybe last year) in Thurles when Kilkenny hurled Galway in the league. Walter Walsh absolutely wrote off Fergal Moore. It was a scary, scary collision, and I thought Moore was badly broke up. Walsh never flinched. I'd say the physical stuff would be well up his alley.

Paudie Maher handled him without too much bother at times on Sunday.

Not much was made of Gleeson clattering Larkin in the second half:

a) He came out feet first - is this legal?
b) One of the replays on TSG suggested Larkin's hurl reached the sliotar first, but not sure. If so, then surely a foul?

Clearly got the ball as the direction of the ball clearly showed before looking at the replay, wasn't really feet first, he (in my book) did rightly. Larkin was fine, tried to milk it a bit me thinks

Watched it all again tonight, as I'd a few more beers than I should have by the final whistle!! serious scoring but great defending also!!

What time is the replay?

5pm

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 10, 2014, 08:22:58 PM

Quote from: gallsman on September 09, 2014, 04:24:42 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on September 09, 2014, 03:49:26 PM
Jesus the worst collision I ever saw on a hurling field was a couple of years (maybe last year) in Thurles when Kilkenny hurled Galway in the league. Walter Walsh absolutely wrote off Fergal Moore. It was a scary, scary collision, and I thought Moore was badly broke up. Walsh never flinched. I'd say the physical stuff would be well up his alley.

Paudie Maher handled him without too much bother at times on Sunday.

Not much was made of Gleeson clattering Larkin in the second half:

a) He came out feet first - is this legal?
b) One of the replays on TSG suggested Larkin's hurl reached the sliotar first, but not sure. If so, then surely a foul?

Clearly got the ball as the direction of the ball clearly showed before looking at the replay, wasn't really feet first, he (in my book) did rightly. Larkin was fine, tried to milk it a bit me thinks

Not necessarily, if (and that's a genuine if) Larkin got to the ball first and got clattered, the ball would have gone out the field anyway. The second replay definitely suggested Larkin nipped in front of him.

Quote from: gallsman on September 11, 2014, 09:06:40 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 10, 2014, 08:22:58 PM

Quote from: gallsman on September 09, 2014, 04:24:42 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on September 09, 2014, 03:49:26 PM
Jesus the worst collision I ever saw on a hurling field was a couple of years (maybe last year) in Thurles when Kilkenny hurled Galway in the league. Walter Walsh absolutely wrote off Fergal Moore. It was a scary, scary collision, and I thought Moore was badly broke up. Walsh never flinched. I'd say the physical stuff would be well up his alley.

Paudie Maher handled him without too much bother at times on Sunday.

Not much was made of Gleeson clattering Larkin in the second half:

a) He came out feet first - is this legal?
b) One of the replays on TSG suggested Larkin's hurl reached the sliotar first, but not sure. If so, then surely a foul?

Clearly got the ball as the direction of the ball clearly showed before looking at the replay, wasn't really feet first, he (in my book) did rightly. Larkin was fine, tried to milk it a bit me thinks

Not necessarily, if (and that's a genuine if) Larkin got to the ball first and got clattered, the ball would have gone out the field anyway. The second replay definitely suggested Larkin nipped in front of him.

My immediate reaction - it was a case of Gleeson taking Larkin out. Play on by the ref !. Larkin wasn't for getting many frees.

I remember a couple of times against Galway where Larkin engineered frees by holding the defenders arm so it looked like the defender was wrapping the hurl around him. I wouldn't have much sympathy for him. Like Drogba in the Champion's League semi against Barca, and the boy who cried wolf, what goes around comes around.

Quote from: Asal Mor on September 11, 2014, 04:23:15 PM
I remember a couple of times against Galway where Larkin engineered frees by holding the defenders arm so it looked like the defender was wrapping the hurl around him. I wouldn't have much sympathy for him. Like Drogba in the Champion's League semi against Barca, and the boy who cried wolf, what goes around comes around.

Hence why I believe his previous 'winning' of frees was in the back of Kelly's mind before he decided if Larkin was fouled or not.

Quote from: johnneycool on September 11, 2014, 04:27:19 PM

Quote from: Asal Mor on September 11, 2014, 04:23:15 PM
I remember a couple of times against Galway where Larkin engineered frees by holding the defenders arm so it looked like the defender was wrapping the hurl around him. I wouldn't have much sympathy for him. Like Drogba in the Champion's League semi against Barca, and the boy who cried wolf, what goes around comes around.

Hence why I believe his previous 'winning' of frees was in the back of Kelly's mind before he decided if Larkin was fouled or not.

Dead right. It's the only reason you could see for him not getting a couple of those decisions. I think it's fair enough too. Good man Barry.

Quote from: AZOffaly on September 08, 2014, 12:58:43 PM

Quote from: gallsman on September 08, 2014, 12:33:50 PM

Quote from: orangeman on September 08, 2014, 11:47:40 AM
I thought the same - but with Peter Mc Kenna on Hawk eye it was never going to be given.

Was given as wide because it was wide, nothing more!

Correct, and isn't it great to have it? Imagine if the umpire was swayed by the Tipp crowd behind the goals and gave it?

The Hawkeye operator then would have told Kelly that he needed to go to Hawkeye to review the last score attempt and it would have been disallowed.

Does the hawk eye guy have that power? I thought he had to be consulted, like the tmo in rugby.

Quote from: AZOffaly on September 11, 2014, 07:44:52 PM
Does the hawk eye guy have that power? I thought he had to be consulted, like the tmo in rugby.

Yep. If a point or wide is called incorrectly by the umpire and the referee doesn't over-rule him then the Hawkeye operator will tell the referee that he has to go to Hawkeye regarding that last score attempt. That much I'm sure of and from that I take it that every score/wide is verified by Hawkeye no matter how obvious it was. From recollection that's how the Limerick minors were robbed last year. The umpire gave the point but the Hawkeye operator called the referee because some ejiot put the football values into the system instead of the hurling ones.

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on September 11, 2014, 08:07:29 PM
Yep. If a point or wide is called incorrectly by the umpire and the referee doesn't over-rule him then the Hawkeye operator will tell the referee that he has to go to Hawkeye regarding that last score attempt. That much I'm sure of and from that I take it that every score/wide is verified by Hawkeye no matter how obvious it was. From recollection that's how the Limerick minors were robbed last year. The umpire gave the point but the Hawkeye operator called the referee because some ejiot put the football values into the system instead of the hurling ones.

Hmm. Everything on the GAA's website (http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/hawkeye/) suggests that Hawk-Eye only intervenes if the umpire makes no decision or the ref calls for it.

I don't think you're right Croí.

Actually deiseach, I had a look at that and I think Croí is right....

What happens if Umpire does not make a decision?
Where Umpire does not indicate that a point has been scored and the play continues:
Review Official communicates to Referee that a Hawk-Eye review is necessary
Referee stops play
Referee makes a 'box' signal with his hands to seek Hawk-Eye review
The Hawk-Eye replay is shown on the Big Screen
Referee confirms Hawk-Eye decision and awards a 'point'. Umpire signals the decision.
What happens if Referee seeks Hawk-Eye review of an Umpire decision?
Where Umpire makes an incorrect decision regarding a 'point' or 'wide':
Umpire makes incorrect decision (i.e. 'point' or 'wide')
Review Official communicates to Referee that a Hawk-Eye review is necessary
Referee makes a 'box' signal with his hands to seek Hawk-Eye review
The Hawk-Eye replay is shown on the Big Screen
Referee confirms Hawk-Eye decision and makes the appropriate decision. Umpire signals that decisio

But is that not only in the case of the umpire not making any decision?

Didn't the umpire call for Hawkeye on all 3 occasions anyway? He certainly made the box signal first on each occasion.

He did.

But that above says if the umpire makes no decision OR makes the wrong decision.

Quote from: AZOffaly on September 13, 2014, 09:34:59 AM
He did.

But that above says if the umpire makes no decision OR makes the wrong decision.

It's badly worded, but the line before the bit about the umpire making an incorrect decision says "What happens if Referee seeks Hawk-Eye review of an Umpire decision?" This implies the ref needs to question the umpire's decision to call in Hawk-Eye and everything that follows is the procedure in the event of the umpire getting it wrong, the Hawk-Eye equivalent of crossing the flags.

In short, why have all this verbiage if the rule is "Hawk-Eye makes every decision"? (NB the answers "cos this is the GAA" is a cop-out ;))

focusing on silly things, the umpire (who I assume completed the umpires course, yes there is one) called it right and if in doubt the referee would have made the main call either way

on a side note I noticed Clare are a decent price for next year (should they get their act together) 9/2 for the All Ireland, I take it Davy will still be manager next year?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 13, 2014, 09:53:55 AM
focusing on silly things, the umpire (who I assume completed the umpires course, yes there is one) called it right and if in doubt the referee would have made the main call either way

It was as big a call as it's possible to make and he a] had the cojones to make it and Hawk-Eye be damned, and b] he got it right. Maith an fear.

Quote from: Asal Mor on September 11, 2014, 04:37:28 PM

Quote from: johnneycool on September 11, 2014, 04:27:19 PM

Quote from: Asal Mor on September 11, 2014, 04:23:15 PM
I remember a couple of times against Galway where Larkin engineered frees by holding the defenders arm so it looked like the defender was wrapping the hurl around him. I wouldn't have much sympathy for him. Like Drogba in the Champion's League semi against Barca, and the boy who cried wolf, what goes around comes around.

Hence why I believe his previous 'winning' of frees was in the back of Kelly's mind before he decided if Larkin was fouled or not.

Dead right. It's the only reason you could see for him not getting a couple of those decisions. I think it's fair enough too. Good man Barry.

Whilst Barry might have had his previous of "winning" frees in the back of his mind before he decided if Larkin was fouled or not, then Barry went out with preconceived ideas of KK winning frees etc, started to ref the game in his mind, based on what he thought he saw  as opposed to what he actually saw and consequently rode Larkin and KK in general.

Good man Barry if your not from KK.

I'm not saying it's fair enough if he rode Kilkenny in general, and I don't think he did. But I do think there's some justice in Larkin's case as he's played for frees in the past ( and worst of all, he did it against Galway). I don't know if he's a consistent diver. I only really noticed him doing it against us. It's an unfair comparison to Larkin but I saw Ashley Young denied what should have been a penalty against West Ham too, probably because of his reputation, and I was thrilled. There's a great karmic justice in it.

Quote from: deiseach on September 13, 2014, 10:03:47 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 13, 2014, 09:53:55 AM
focusing on silly things, the umpire (who I assume completed the umpires course, yes there is one) called it right and if in doubt the referee would have made the main call either way

It was as big a call as it's possible to make and he a] had the cojones to make it and Hawk-Eye be damned, and b] he got it right. Maith an fear.

All the calls are big during a match, like the penalty decisions (which I though were spot on ish ;) ) I had to do the same thing last week and discussed with both umpires on a penalty decision, was he inside the line or not. They are 6 yards away I was 20 yards, that's what they are there for

Not looking for a thread just put it up here.

What a fantastic second half yesterday in the Under 21 final. so many good things about that match and defo up there with the senior game on Sunday, that is a real emerging Clare and Wexford team. Brilliant game and end to end stuff, Clare just had that extra throttle to push on and get the vital scores in the end to nudge in front by the safe margin (4 points) every time.

If Clare get the right man (Fitz is damaged goods I think) then they will win maybe the next 2/3 senior championships

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 14, 2014, 11:54:30 AM
Not looking for a thread just put it up here.

What a fantastic second half yesterday in the Under 21 final. so many good things about that match and defo up there with the senior game on Sunday, that is a real emerging Clare and Wexford team. Brilliant game and end to end stuff, Clare just had that extra throttle to push on and get the vital scores in the end to nudge in front by the safe margin (4 points) every time.

If Clare get the right man (Fitz is damaged goods I think) then they will win maybe the next 2/3 senior championships

I've loved this competition for years now, there's something purer about it than the senior game and a lot less negativity as well as a fantastic standard of hurling.

Clare probably have gotten all the senior hurlers off that team already that they will get, I think it was said that 7 or 8 are already on the senior panel so will need to hopefully keep going with these young men for the foreseeable, but they're real stars in Tony Kelly and Galvin who are very similar hurlers. I think they still need another few hurlers like John Conlan, able to win all sorts of ball that some their way, maybe Bobby Duggan is the most similar to that but a bit of balance is needed with the fast, wristy hurlers to get back to the first Sunday in September.
As for Davy, he'll have to go in his own time, remember daddy is county secretary and no one is allowed to question his methods even if indeed they seem to be detrimental to the team.

Wexford in McDonald have one of the best hurlers and scoring forwards about at the minute, he's the new Joe Canning, so expectation is going to mount on his shoulders over the coming years, and we'll see how he handles it.
Shoe in for young hurler of the year IMO.

Thank you TG4.

Quote from: johnneycool on September 15, 2014, 09:16:12 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 14, 2014, 11:54:30 AM
Not looking for a thread just put it up here.

What a fantastic second half yesterday in the Under 21 final. so many good things about that match and defo up there with the senior game on Sunday, that is a real emerging Clare and Wexford team. Brilliant game and end to end stuff, Clare just had that extra throttle to push on and get the vital scores in the end to nudge in front by the safe margin (4 points) every time.

If Clare get the right man (Fitz is damaged goods I think) then they will win maybe the next 2/3 senior championships

I've loved this competition for years now, there's something purer about it than the senior game and a lot less negativity as well as a fantastic standard of hurling.

Clare probably have gotten all the senior hurlers off that team already that they will get, I think it was said that 7 or 8 are already on the senior panel so will need to hopefully keep going with these young men for the foreseeable, but they're real stars in Tony Kelly and Galvin who are very similar hurlers. I think they still need another few hurlers like John Conlan, able to win all sorts of ball that some their way, maybe Bobby Duggan is the most similar to that but a bit of balance is needed with the fast, wristy hurlers to get back to the first Sunday in September.
As for Davy, he'll have to go in his own time, remember daddy is county secretary and no one is allowed to question his methods even if indeed they seem to be detrimental to the team.

Wexford in McDonald have one of the best hurlers and scoring forwards about at the minute, he's the new Joe Canning, so expectation is going to mount on his shoulders over the coming years, and we'll see how he handles it.
Shoe in for young hurler of the year IMO.

Thank you TG4.

That's for sure but he's not, nor anywhere near. Fairly good target man but awkward enough in spots and not always does anything come off his possessions. JC was fully formed even in his teenage years, vide his performance in '06 club final.

Quote from: mouview on September 15, 2014, 10:16:54 PM

Quote from: johnneycool on September 15, 2014, 09:16:12 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 14, 2014, 11:54:30 AM
Not looking for a thread just put it up here.

What a fantastic second half yesterday in the Under 21 final. so many good things about that match and defo up there with the senior game on Sunday, that is a real emerging Clare and Wexford team. Brilliant game and end to end stuff, Clare just had that extra throttle to push on and get the vital scores in the end to nudge in front by the safe margin (4 points) every time.

If Clare get the right man (Fitz is damaged goods I think) then they will win maybe the next 2/3 senior championships

I've loved this competition for years now, there's something purer about it than the senior game and a lot less negativity as well as a fantastic standard of hurling.

Clare probably have gotten all the senior hurlers off that team already that they will get, I think it was said that 7 or 8 are already on the senior panel so will need to hopefully keep going with these young men for the foreseeable, but they're real stars in Tony Kelly and Galvin who are very similar hurlers. I think they still need another few hurlers like John Conlan, able to win all sorts of ball that some their way, maybe Bobby Duggan is the most similar to that but a bit of balance is needed with the fast, wristy hurlers to get back to the first Sunday in September.
As for Davy, he'll have to go in his own time, remember daddy is county secretary and no one is allowed to question his methods even if indeed they seem to be detrimental to the team.

Wexford in McDonald have one of the best hurlers and scoring forwards about at the minute, he's the new Joe Canning, so expectation is going to mount on his shoulders over the coming years, and we'll see how he handles it.
Shoe in for young hurler of the year IMO.

Thank you TG4.

That's for sure but he's not, nor anywhere near. Fairly good target man but awkward enough in spots and not always does anything come off his possessions. JC was fully formed even in his teenage years, vide his performance in '06 club final.

Yeah, he'd a great '06 club final vrs Newtownshandrum but was getting exceptional ball put into him with Portumna in those days, he struggled badly in his last year at minor though when Paudie Maher held him well from play in the AI final which Tipp won. JC is human as well.

I'd have McDonald stronger in the air than JC, with JC being a better all round hurler.

Galway beat Clare in the minor semi-final in 2011. 3 years later the Clare lads have developed into All-Ireland winners at U-21 and senior and our lads haven't reached anywhere near their full potential.

It's unsurprising with the way things are run in Galway. No senior club championship games all summer(seemingly for financial reasons) and a league that is treated as a joke by most clubs. One championship match for the county U-21 team and 2 for the minors this year. We need to go into Leinster at underage for more games. It's not that surprising that good minors aren't developing into good seniors when they don't have games and competitions to train for during the summer.



All-Ireland Minor Hurling Championship Semi-Final – Galway 1-23 Clare 1-18
Galway Minors see off Clare after extra-time.

Clare Scorers: C O'Connell 0-6 (0-2f) A Cunningham 0-4, O Hickey 1-0, T Kelly 0-3 (0-1f), C Galvin 0-3, S O'Donnell 0-2, M Moroney 0-1.

Galway Scorers: S Maloney 0-10 (0-7f), G O'Donoghue 1-2, J Carr 0-3, P Brehony 0-2, D Higgins 0-2, J Hanbary 0-1, B Lane 0-1, M Mullins 0-1, B Molloy 0-1.

Clare: E Quilligan; S O'Brien, J Browne, S Morey; J Colleran, J Shanahan, G O'Connell; C Galvin, T Kelly; E Enright, C O'Connell, P Duggan; S O'Donnell, O Hickey, A Cunningham.
Subs: S Liddy for G O'Connell (38'), M Moronry for G O'Connell (45'), D Moloney for Liddy (70'), G O'Connell for O Hickey (77').

Galway: S Mannion; O Teagle, P Killeen, C Diviney; J Hanbary, S Sweeney, P Mannion; B Lane, P Brehony; J Flynn, J Glynn, A Tuohy; G O'Donoghue, S Maloney, K Cullinane.
Subs: J Carr for Cullinane (30'), D Higgins for Flynn (37'), B Molloy for Lane, M Mullins for Flynn (54'), P Flathery for G O'Donoghue (69').

I've loved this competition for years now, there's something purer about it than the senior game and a lot less negativity as well as a fantastic standard of hurling.

+1. just hurl.

If King Henry and Tommy are to play, they both surely must start.

Quote from: pullhard on September 22, 2014, 08:54:23 AM
If King Henry and Tommy are to play, they both surely must start.

IIRC Henry may have only started one game this year in the championship and Tommy none but I could be incorrect.

I'll find it hard to see either of them starting come saturday evening.

Regardless of whether he plays in replay and KK win Shefflin can say he won the 10 titles "on the field of play".

Thought the substitutions on both sides in the first game were bizarre tbh. To me anyway there seems to be a mentality out there that you HAVE  to make all 5 substitutions or else you are not an astute manager.

Only watching on the tv but it seemed lads who were playing well were being substituted.

Both Mahers fit to start on Saturday, will Richie Hogan make it as well?

What's up with him?

Quote from: theskull1 on September 23, 2014, 02:23:25 PM
What's up with him?

Was thinking the same? Have the Kilkenny board allowed club championship to proceed between finals?

Quote from: pullhard on September 23, 2014, 02:59:50 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on September 23, 2014, 02:23:25 PM
What's up with him?

Was thinking the same? Have the Kilkenny board allowed club championship to proceed between finals?

No, He was taken off in the drawn game due to a calf injury.

fingers crossed want to see the best players in the big games

Latest rumors for Kilkenny starting 15,

Sheff at FF
Mark Kelly at FF
Richie Hogan at Midfield and Centre forward
Mick Fennelly at Midfield.
Brian Hogan dropped.
Joey Holden dropped.
P Walsh at Midfield and half forward.
Walter Walsh dropped

The rumor mill continues.

So The Kilkenny team is

                    Murphy


Murphy           JJ                     Jackie

Nobody         Nobody              Buckley

         Richie H  Mick Fennelly and Padraig Walsh

Padraig Walsh        Richie Hogan         eoin Larkin

Colin Fennelly        Henry Shefflin and Mark Kelly   Ritchie Power


Interesting set up. Lot of work for Padraig and Richie to do, but I like the double full forward idea.

Basically that sums it up.

More seriously: would love to see M Fennelly at mid and Richie Hogan at CF. I think Ricie and TJ would be unstoppable in the same line while Fennelly would secure up around the half back line. I hope Walter Walsh is dropped and anyone who replaces him would be an improvement. On the Henry matter yes he looks lean and fit but I think the ferocity and pace that Tipp are hurling with would leave him caught for pace everywhere except for FF and I would not be taking R. Power out of there as his fitness levels will be much improved after 3 weeks and the goals will follow.

Quote from: AZOffaly on September 23, 2014, 05:02:32 PM
So The Kilkenny team is

                    Murphy


Murphy           JJ                     Jackie

Nobody         Nobody              Buckley

         Richie H  Mick Fennelly and Padraig Walsh

Padraig Walsh        Richie Hogan         eoin Larkin

Colin Fennelly        Henry Shefflin and Mark Kelly   Ritchie Power


Interesting set up. Lot of work for Padraig and Richie to do, but I like the double full forward idea.

Inspired by Utd no doubt! Sure JJ could cover full and wing back. After his performance in the last game it'd be rather tricky to drop Power, Which could leave a nice opening for Tommy on the wing.

I cant cant cant wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Like Henry I think the pace of the game may be too much for wee Tommy.

How old is tommy walsh? He not a bit young to be of the pace?

Quote from: imtommygunn on September 23, 2014, 10:15:10 PM
How old is tommy walsh? He not a bit young to be of the pace?

31, old by IC standards, he has a lot of miles in his legs at this stage.

Be interesting to see if KK take Hogan (assuming he's fit) out of midfield and put him on Maher. He didn't have the greatest of first halves in the middle last day but he absolutely annihilated Maher when he moved onto him - hammering the hammer as Tomás O'Sé and Eddie Brennan were saying. Maher is a huge player for Tipp, his catches and clearances very inspirational for both the team and the fans. If KK shut him down early, they'll be well on their way.

My view after the drawn game was that KK had more room to improve and, barring injury, still make them out to be favourites. If Hogan is injured, balance ships back towards Kilkenny.

In the backs, I'd bring Joyce in for Holden and move Buckley across. If Brian Hogan is having a bad day, Joyce can play CHB too.

Love the look of the KK team, think M Fennelly will start at MF. Full of pace in forwards, two great engines in MF and P Walsh will give great cover in the backs.

KK by 4-6

What is the team

Kilkenny: E Murphy; P Murphy, JJ Delaney, J Tyrrell; P Walsh, K Joyce, C Buckley; R Hogan, C Fogarty; M Fennelly, C Fennelly, E Larkin; R Power, TJ Reid, J Power.

Tipperary: D Gleeson; C Barrett, P Maher, P Stapleton; B Maher (captain), J Barry, K Bergin; S McGrath, J Woodlock; G Ryan, P Maher, J O'Dwyer, N McGrath, S Callanan, L Corbett.

E.Murphy
P.Murphy
JJ
Jackie
P. Walsh
K. Joyce
Buckley
Hogan
Fogarty
M.Fennelly
C.Fennelly
E.Larkin
R.Power
TJ
John Power

Probably be a few positional changes

John Power is a big, big call. Even more doubts hanging over him than there were over Richie or TJ at the start of their careers.

Be interesting to see if the Bonnar plays on Joyce. Could get very, very physical. Can see the KK back line, like last day, rotating almost as much as the forwards.

Quote from: gallsman on September 26, 2014, 12:49:14 AM
John Power is a big, big call. Even more doubts hanging over him than there were over Richie or TJ at the start of their careers.

Well worth a gamble though, given how innocuous Walsh, Kelly and Fogarty have been all year.

I got a ticket for the match. Can't wait to go.

Quote from: Asal Mor on September 26, 2014, 08:43:57 AM

Quote from: gallsman on September 26, 2014, 12:49:14 AM
John Power is a big, big call. Even more doubts hanging over him than there were over Richie or TJ at the start of their careers.

Well worth a gamble though, given how innocuous Walsh, Kelly and Fogarty have been all year.

Cody has never had any fears for making big calls on final day. Thought Shefflin might have been given nod.

Quote from: gallsman on September 26, 2014, 09:32:39 AM

Quote from: Asal Mor on September 26, 2014, 08:43:57 AM

Quote from: gallsman on September 26, 2014, 12:49:14 AM
John Power is a big, big call. Even more doubts hanging over him than there were over Richie or TJ at the start of their careers.

Well worth a gamble though, given how innocuous Walsh, Kelly and Fogarty have been all year.

Cody has never had any fears for making big calls on final day. Thought Shefflin might have been given nod.

John Power is probably an unknown at this level, but if Cody didn't think he'd anything to offer he wouldn't be there.

Too big of a risk in starting with Henry and then possibly having to take him off, the morale boost would spur Tipp on, Cody is right this time IMO.

Defence with Joyce and Paudie Walsh looks a lot more sprightly and with Tipp there's less of a need for the big powerful defenders although wur Jackie is still there to dish out the necessary medicine.

Still all in the balance though and too hard to call..

Quote from: johnneycool on September 26, 2014, 11:58:28 AM

Quote from: gallsman on September 26, 2014, 09:32:39 AM

Quote from: Asal Mor on September 26, 2014, 08:43:57 AM

Quote from: gallsman on September 26, 2014, 12:49:14 AM
John Power is a big, big call. Even more doubts hanging over him than there were over Richie or TJ at the start of their careers.

Well worth a gamble though, given how innocuous Walsh, Kelly and Fogarty have been all year.

Cody has never had any fears for making big calls on final day. Thought Shefflin might have been given nod.

John Power is probably an unknown at this level, but if Cody didn't think he'd anything to offer he wouldn't be there.

Too big of a risk in starting with Henry and then possibly having to take him off, the morale boost would spur Tipp on, Cody is right this time IMO.

Defence with Joyce and Paudie Walsh looks a lot more sprightly and with Tipp there's less of a need for the big powerful defenders although wur Jackie is still there to dish out the necessary medicine.

Still all in the balance though and too hard to call..

Sprightly wouldn't be a word that jumps to my mind when thinking of Joyce!

Quote from: gallsman on September 26, 2014, 05:33:58 PM

Quote from: johnneycool on September 26, 2014, 11:58:28 AM

Quote from: gallsman on September 26, 2014, 09:32:39 AM

Quote from: Asal Mor on September 26, 2014, 08:43:57 AM

Quote from: gallsman on September 26, 2014, 12:49:14 AM
John Power is a big, big call. Even more doubts hanging over him than there were over Richie or TJ at the start of their careers.

Well worth a gamble though, given how innocuous Walsh, Kelly and Fogarty have been all year.

Cody has never had any fears for making big calls on final day. Thought Shefflin might have been given nod.

John Power is probably an unknown at this level, but if Cody didn't think he'd anything to offer he wouldn't be there.

Too big of a risk in starting with Henry and then possibly having to take him off, the morale boost would spur Tipp on, Cody is right this time IMO.

Defence with Joyce and Paudie Walsh looks a lot more sprightly and with Tipp there's less of a need for the big powerful defenders although wur Jackie is still there to dish out the necessary medicine.

Still all in the balance though and too hard to call..

Sprightly wouldn't be a word that jumps to my mind when thinking of Joyce!

Compared to Brian Hogan he's a veritable spring lamb.

Still can't call this one.

KK traditionally do well in replays. But Tipp just wouldn't go away or be put away the last day and were inches from winning it.

Hoping for another Classic.

Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2014, 09:11:57 AM
I got a ticket for the match. Can't wait to go.

Lucky you seafoid. It will be epic. Enjoy. All I ask as ever,  is that I can get a good stream.

I'm going for the cats myself. They've learn't lessons better than their opposition in the past plus I think any team playing KK still psychologically see their opportunity as a punchers chance, so giving them a second go at you isnt something I see any team relishing. Could be wrong though  :o. Hope its as good as last years replay which was unreal for both atmosphere and standard.

What happens if its a drawn game? paddy is offering 8/1

Quote from: pullhard on September 27, 2014, 12:22:30 PM
What happens if its a drawn game? paddy is offering 8/1

Replay & ET after it I think

So we could be facing extra time, jaysus!

Any links to the game please?

Usually one up here:

http://www.wiziwig.tv/competition.php?part=sports&discipline=other

KK 4-24 Tipp 3-25 AET

Defences on top and free taking average at best today.

Remarkably different game to three weeks ago. All the heroes, on both sides, from the first day were kept quiet. Kilkenny's defensive intensity was incredible.

RTE gave Joyce man of the match for the job he did on the Bonnar. Fully deserved. Padraig Walsh would have been equally as worthy in my opinion.

Thought Padraig Walsh was unlucky not to get MOTM today, tipp never came out for the 2nd half because Kilkenny wouldn't let them. Another exciting finish but the cats well deserved the victory. Every club in the country should be showing this game to juveniles as a master class in hooking and blocking. Imagine having 10 AI medals.......

Another great game today, Kilkenny didn't let it slip this time. They were just a few fractions sharper around the half back line this time round.

Tipp were second best for much of the exchanges and breaks in the second half. They can have no complaints really the goal near the end gave them a sliver of hope that they deserved for all their hard work but Kilkenny deserved their victory.

Best team won. Colin fennelly must have been close to mom too.

Jj delaney's hook was amazing. He has done some amount of that over the years. Absolutely superb player.

The fielding of kk defenders was exceptional too. Every one of them.

Feel for tipp. Few excellent performances but they needed bigger performances out of the likes of Corbett and paudie maher. Bunny maher and bergin were excellent.

Tipp went for the throat in the first half when simple tap over points were on. Instead of taking the easy score they ran into one of hardest hitting, tigerish defences around and the chances disappeared quickly. Tipp could have gone in at half time 5/6 points up.

KK came out and went 5-0 up. When Tipp got a lucky break in the form of the dubious penalty, when only 2 points down, there seemed to be a preordained decision to go for the point. The decision to go for the point instead of the goal will be one of things that will exercise the minds of the Tipp players, management and supporters. Had Tipp gone into a 1 point lead at that stage, who knows ?. As I said last week, small margins.

That said KK were by far the better team in the 2nd half and Cody's big calls before the game and during it, won the game for KK. Tipp's heavy hitters of the last day were well quelled and KK's defence were tighter and meaner than the last day.

Cody celebrated today like it was the first. Most expect that it's the end of the road for a few of these KK greats.

But spare a thought for a gallant Tipp team who will get over the line in the next few years.

Great year for hurling again.

Quote from: orangeman on September 27, 2014, 11:18:50 PM
Tipp went for the throat in the first half when simple tap over points were on. Instead of taking the easy score they ran into one of hardest hitting, tigerish defences around and the chances disappeared quickly. Tipp could have gone in at half time 5/6 points up.

KK came out and went 5-0 up. When Tipp got a lucky break in the form of the dubious penalty, when only 2 points down, there seemed to be a preordained decision to go for the point. The decision to go for the point instead of the goal will be one of things that will exercise the minds of the Tipp players, management and supporters. Had Tipp gone into a 1 point lead at that stage, who knows ?. As I said last week, small margins.

That said KK were by far the better team in the 2nd half and Cody's big calls before the game and during it, won the game for KK. Tipp's heavy hitters of the last day were well quelled and KK's defence were tighter and meaner than the last day.

Cody celebrated today like it was the first. Most expect that it's the end of the road for a few of these KK greats.

But spare a thought for a gallant Tipp team who will get over the line in the next few years.

Great year for hurling again.

Kerry win 1 Kilkenny win the other. A year that does nothing for GAA.

Quote from: Aaron Boone on September 27, 2014, 11:47:19 PM

Quote from: orangeman on September 27, 2014, 11:18:50 PM
Tipp went for the throat in the first half when simple tap over points were on. Instead of taking the easy score they ran into one of hardest hitting, tigerish defences around and the chances disappeared quickly. Tipp could have gone in at half time 5/6 points up.

KK came out and went 5-0 up. When Tipp got a lucky break in the form of the dubious penalty, when only 2 points down, there seemed to be a preordained decision to go for the point. The decision to go for the point instead of the goal will be one of things that will exercise the minds of the Tipp players, management and supporters. Had Tipp gone into a 1 point lead at that stage, who knows ?. As I said last week, small margins.

That said KK were by far the better team in the 2nd half and Cody's big calls before the game and during it, won the game for KK. Tipp's heavy hitters of the last day were well quelled and KK's defence were tighter and meaner than the last day.

Cody celebrated today like it was the first. Most expect that it's the end of the road for a few of these KK greats.

But spare a thought for a gallant Tipp team who will get over the line in the next few years.

Great year for hurling again.

Kerry win 1 Kilkenny win the other. A year that does nothing for GAA.

What a negative response. The Gaa was never stronger. Today was another fantastic add for Sport, Gaa and Hurling. When KK and Kerry are beaten it will be all the sweeter. Same when Leicester beat Man U during the week. Thats Sport.

Quote from: Aaron Boone on September 27, 2014, 11:47:19 PM

Quote from: orangeman on September 27, 2014, 11:18:50 PM
Tipp went for the throat in the first half when simple tap over points were on. Instead of taking the easy score they ran into one of hardest hitting, tigerish defences around and the chances disappeared quickly. Tipp could have gone in at half time 5/6 points up.

KK came out and went 5-0 up. When Tipp got a lucky break in the form of the dubious penalty, when only 2 points down, there seemed to be a preordained decision to go for the point. The decision to go for the point instead of the goal will be one of things that will exercise the minds of the Tipp players, management and supporters. Had Tipp gone into a 1 point lead at that stage, who knows ?. As I said last week, small margins.

That said KK were by far the better team in the 2nd half and Cody's big calls before the game and during it, won the game for KK. Tipp's heavy hitters of the last day were well quelled and KK's defence were tighter and meaner than the last day.

Cody celebrated today like it was the first. Most expect that it's the end of the road for a few of these KK greats.

But spare a thought for a gallant Tipp team who will get over the line in the next few years.

Great year for hurling again.

Kerry win 1 Kilkenny win the other. A year that does nothing for GAA.

Had Dublin won the football the Time to split Dublin thread would have reached a 1000 pages by now.

Kerry were written off at the start of the year and were supposed to be done. There were big doubts over KK too. Both teams that won did it the hard way. They beat all comers so well done and fair play to them.

Gaa did a big deal with Sky this year too. Gareth Brooks didn't turn up but the American footballers did.

We were going to get €2 membership money refunded to the clubs. A massive year for the Gaa. And don't forget King Henry who won his 10th medal today.

Quote from: orangeman on September 28, 2014, 12:03:54 AM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on September 27, 2014, 11:47:19 PM

Quote from: orangeman on September 27, 2014, 11:18:50 PM
Tipp went for the throat in the first half when simple tap over points were on. Instead of taking the easy score they ran into one of hardest hitting, tigerish defences around and the chances disappeared quickly. Tipp could have gone in at half time 5/6 points up.

KK came out and went 5-0 up. When Tipp got a lucky break in the form of the dubious penalty, when only 2 points down, there seemed to be a preordained decision to go for the point. The decision to go for the point instead of the goal will be one of things that will exercise the minds of the Tipp players, management and supporters. Had Tipp gone into a 1 point lead at that stage, who knows ?. As I said last week, small margins.

That said KK were by far the better team in the 2nd half and Cody's big calls before the game and during it, won the game for KK. Tipp's heavy hitters of the last day were well quelled and KK's defence were tighter and meaner than the last day.

Cody celebrated today like it was the first. Most expect that it's the end of the road for a few of these KK greats.

But spare a thought for a gallant Tipp team who will get over the line in the next few years.

Great year for hurling again.

Kerry win 1 Kilkenny win the other. A year that does nothing for GAA.

Had Dublin won the football the Time to split Dublin thread would have reached a 1000 pages by now.

Kerry were written off at the start of the year and were supposed to be done. There were big doubts over KK too. Both teams that won did it the hard way. They beat all comers so well done and fair play to them.

Gaa did a big deal with Sky this year too. Gareth Brooks didn't turn up but the American footballers did.

We were going to get €2 membership money refunded to the clubs. A massive year for the Gaa. And don't forget King Henry who won his 10th medal today.

Ok then.

AI stats-wise it's them again.
You don't hear what a great year it was when looking at Wikipedia in a couple of yrs.

Thats the most nonsensical reasoning Ive heard right there.

Quote from: theskull1 on September 28, 2014, 01:00:35 AM
Thats the most nonsensical reasoning Ive heard right there.

I know, never heard the likes of it, Kerr weren't favourites at the start of the year and Kilkenny were well written off. Must be on his period.

Joyce for me anyways was clearly MOM his fielding and sheer fecking determination was immense. To be told you are playing centre half in all Ireland final during the week and not played as many championship games for Kilkenny must have scared the life out of some players but he different gravy yesterday as were all the defenders in Kilkenny tops. Fair play Tipp they had their chance but not too many teams beat Kilkenny and Cody a second time round

It's interesting how after so many teams win that the motivation provided by pundits and journalists etc emerges -

Cody after yesterday's win :

Manager Brian Cody rounded on critics of his ageing Kilkenny defence and, in particular, of full-back JJ Delaney after the Cats' 2-17 to 2-14 victory over Tipperary in the All-Ireland SHC final replay at Croke Park.
Cody's 10th All-Ireland success as manager will ultimately be remembered as the one when Henry Shefflin entered the history books as a 10-time winning player.
But Cody admitted one of the game's defining moments was actually 32-year old defender Delaney's 18th minute hook on Seamus Callanan.
Full-forward Callanan still finished with 2-05 but Delaney's last-gasp hook averted a goal concession at a crucial stage of the game.
Ironically, pundits had suggested that several of Kilkenny's thirty-something defenders, including Delaney, may be past their best after last year's early Championship exit.
"As we're so often told, our defenders are very, very slow and for JJ Delaney, who's meant to be old and beat at this stage and can't run, to get back and hook a player who, in your (the media's) opinion, and who is actually a speed merchant. Look we work a lot on speed to keep them quick," said Cody.
"You'd want to know what you're writing about when you're writing those things before you slaughter them. You'd want to realise it doesn't work like that."
Cody said his team's defending generally "was absolutely magnificent" though inevitably much of the post-match discussion centred on Shefflin's remarkable achievement.

Cody does come across as a bit of a bully when he is being interviewed.

Why not rise above it ?

He did. All year. Now he's fully vindicated (as if he needed to be) he can put people back in their place.

Callanan may have scored 2-05 (first goal was all Lar, second a freak ricochet. Were all the points frees?) but JJ won their battle hands down. Exceptional hurler and who'd bet against him matching Henry's haul?

Quote from: orangeman on September 27, 2014, 11:18:50 PM
Tipp went for the throat in the first half when simple tap over points were on. Instead of taking the easy score they ran into one of hardest hitting, tigerish defences around and the chances disappeared quickly. Tipp could have gone in at half time 5/6 points up.

KK came out and went 5-0 up. When Tipp got a lucky break in the form of the dubious penalty, when only 2 points down, there seemed to be a preordained decision to go for the point. The decision to go for the point instead of the goal will be one of things that will exercise the minds of the Tipp players, management and supporters. Had Tipp gone into a 1 point lead at that stage, who knows ?. As I said last week, small margins.

That said KK were by far the better team in the 2nd half and Cody's big calls before the game and during it, won the game for KK. Tipp's heavy hitters of the last day were well quelled and KK's defence were tighter and meaner than the last day.

Cody celebrated today like it was the first. Most expect that it's the end of the road for a few of these KK greats.

But spare a thought for a gallant Tipp team who will get over the line in the next few years.

Great year for hurling again.

There was a cameo halfway through the second half where Tipp had a chance for a point and spent too much time foostering and KK got the ball and drove it over the bar.
If Joe Canning had been born on the other side of the Shannon he would have scored the penalty for Tipp ;).
KK marginally better. Felt sorry for the Tipp goalie. He was immense.

I dunno how much more mileage those Cats players have.
I was looking at Kilkenny people in Croker wondering what it must be like to be from a county that has won 10 all Irelands in 15 years.
And then you think of the counties that have never won anything.

The ould fella had an interesting snippet. Is it true or not? He said Kilkenny is the only county that doesn't have a branch of Comhaltas.
And the Rose of Mooncoin is really shit - surely they could do better to mark such a level of perfection. 

Lookit Marty's interview with Mr and Mrs Shefflin was interesting too. The father in law who gave his consent to the union provided it didn't interfere with his hurling.  Class.     

Watched the game again there today. Unclear how the MOTM was choosen. Joyce did nothing wrong and produced the best catch of the game in the first half but wasnt in play often enough to stand out. Michael Fennelly, Paudraig Walsh & Conor Fogarty were the power houses for me. Buckley as well had some game. Up front Tipp just we'rent at the races second half. How much that was KK and how much it was Tipp its hard to say but they didnt look as if they wanted it the same as the cats.

The honesty of effort and tactical simplicity of the cats is amazing. You can't help but love them 

Quote from: theskull1 on September 28, 2014, 06:05:44 PM
Watched the game again there today. Unclear how the MOTM was choosen. Joyce did nothing wrong and produced the best catch of the game in the first half but wasnt in play often enough to stand out. Michael Fennelly, Paudraig Walsh & Conor Fogarty were the power houses for me. Buckley as well had some game. Up front Tipp just we'rent at the races second half. How much that was KK and how much it was Tipp its hard to say but they didnt look as if they wanted it the same as the cats.

The honesty of effort and tactical simplicity of the cats is amazing. You can't help but love them

Two of the tipp ff line were subbed which said a lot. Bonner couldn't get the runs going.
The hooking and blocking of the KK backs was exceptional.
But Tipp beat the cats when it REALLY mattered in 2010.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k38XD4dYMY

Quote from: theskull1 on September 28, 2014, 06:05:44 PM
Watched the game again there today. Unclear how the MOTM was choosen. Joyce did nothing wrong and produced the best catch of the game in the first half but wasnt in play often enough to stand out. Michael Fennelly, Paudraig Walsh & Conor Fogarty were the power houses for me. Buckley as well had some game. Up front Tipp just we'rent at the races second half. How much that was KK and how much it was Tipp its hard to say but they didnt look as if they wanted it the same as the cats.

The honesty of effort and tactical simplicity of the cats is amazing. You can't help but love them

You'd like Paul Murphy on your team. Brave as hell and can hurl a bit.

Quote from: johnneycool on August 21, 2014, 01:25:46 PM

A lot IMO will depend on the style of refereeing, if its let go into an abrasive battle, then Kilkenny will probably come out on top, but if we get a few early frees setting the tone of how the tackle is to be allowed then I can see a far more open contest, probably favouring Tipp, if its the same Tipp that played Cork, that is.

My gut still says Kilkenny though, but then again I need a dose of epsom salts...

This was a very good call from Johnney before the first game. Donal Og did a great little piece on the spare arm tackle on TSG last night, and showed how much Brian Gavin let go. It definitely suited Kilkenny, and JJ and Jackie in particular.

Quote from: seafoid on September 28, 2014, 03:00:43 PM
I dunno how much more mileage those Cats players have.

It's always evolving though. Eoin Larkin recently turned 30 but the only other 30+ players who started are JJ and Jackie. Lots of young lads on that team. Galway have more 30 year olds in their team than Kilkenny do.

You're right about the Rose of Mooncoin though. It's embarrassing.

Paul Murphy is only 25. Richie Hogan isn't that old either. Tyrrel, Delaney and Brian Hogan would really be the main older guard though did I read Joyce was 32?

They'll be around for a while yet I suspect. I would expect to see JJ get 10 too. I think Henry will likely retire - be interesting to see what Tommy Walsh does too.

Tipp's oldest is likely Corbett isn't it? Most of them will have a good few years in them yet.

Team of the year a bit heavy on KK and Tipp players.

Quote from: Asal Mor on September 29, 2014, 04:13:48 AM

Quote from: seafoid on September 28, 2014, 03:00:43 PM
I dunno how much more mileage those Cats players have.

It's always evolving though. Eoin Larkin recently turned 30 but the only other 30+ players who started are JJ and Jackie. Lots of young lads on that team. Galway have more 30 year olds in their team than Kilkenny do.

You're right about the Rose of Mooncoin though. It's embarrassing.

the drive is hard to keep going. Barca couldn't do it. Man Utd couldn't do it.
Kk had 2 draws this year and with another ref Tipp could have won. The gap is narrower than it was 6 years ago.

Quote from: Asal Mor on September 29, 2014, 04:00:46 AM

Quote from: johnneycool on August 21, 2014, 01:25:46 PM

A lot IMO will depend on the style of refereeing, if its let go into an abrasive battle, then Kilkenny will probably come out on top, but if we get a few early frees setting the tone of how the tackle is to be allowed then I can see a far more open contest, probably favouring Tipp, if its the same Tipp that played Cork, that is.

My gut still says Kilkenny though, but then again I need a dose of epsom salts...

This was a very good call from Johnney before the first game. Donal Og did a great little piece on the spare arm tackle on TSG last night, and showed how much Brian Gavin let go. It definitely suited Kilkenny, and JJ and Jackie in particular.

Mick Kavanagh gave a very good insight into this as well, the KK defenders will work out quite quickly what certain referees are prepared to allow and play accordingly, there's no doubt in my mind they're briefed before the game on the do's and don'ts once the referee is known and they have it down to a fine art and if they're concerned, Eddie Keher or someone will be despatched to the press with a tale of the manliness of the game being eroded.

Brian Gavin lets a fair bit of the pulling and tugging go to be seen as letting the game flow, but there comes a point where the rules are being broken and the referee has to call it and give it irrespective of what the general populace want or it'll descend into rollerball (showing my age here) on grass.
There's nothing manly about pulling a mans arm as they're attempting to strike the ball, purely cynical stuff and needs stopped by consistent punishment by the referees no matter who they are. Yes we'll possibly get a few shitty stop start games before players and management react accordingly, but the end product will be better.

As for the game itself, whilst it wasn't the free scoring fest of three weeks ago, the flicks, blocks, hooks, catches were fantastic where the defences came out on top, plus the amount of pressure the KK forwards exerted on the Tipp backs at times was unreal, several times Paudie Maher was forced into losing possession before he could get his head up to find a Tipp forward with the same level of accuracy he did the previous day.

Cody had his homework done, picked horses for courses, Joyce nullifying the bonner Maher and initially Colin Fennelly hounded Paudie Maher down any time he got on the ball and took him out of the game.
Those were the rocks Tipp perished on and apart from Noel McGrath rattling over a few good points early in the first half the Tipp forwards were suffocated and starved of possession with Lar and a few others not troubling the scoreboard for long durations.

Tipp can be proud of this years recovery from the doldrums, but not landing the big one will still rankle and the failings of too few forwards able to win the dirty ball is their Achilles heel. Address that and they'll be hard to work with.

One thing of note, the fine elbow delivered by Richie Power just as the ball was dropping to allow the catch that set up his goal, Sambo McNaughton was also a fine exponent of such skill.

:o

You'd have to question Tipps tactics up front on Sat. It was obvious that they were told to drop the shoulder and go for the jugular.  As a result on several occasions they took low percentage options doing this when an easy point was there for the taking, so even when they found space they played into KK's hands and were swamped out of it. You can understand the psychology of this tactic but its wasn't nuanced enough on the day. Taking the handy point when the space was there and keeping the scoreboard ticking over especially first half would have pushed KK out the field a bit and made a bit more space for their inside line.

Cody not pulling any punches in this interview. He's his own man, that's for sure.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/cody-puts-referee-kelly-and-former-kilkenny-greats-in-his-crosshairs-289094.html

Quote from: orangeman on September 29, 2014, 11:44:06 AM
Cody not pulling any punches in this interview. He's his own man, that's for sure.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/cody-puts-referee-kelly-and-former-kilkenny-greats-in-his-crosshairs-289094.html

This is the kind of thing that puts me Cody, he has just won an All Ireland and instead of being happy with that he uses the time to have a go at a ref. KK play on the borderline of the rules and frequently over it, they are one of the most cynical teams in the country in most aspects of the game.
If you look back to his gripe about HS getting the line from BK, he deserved to get two yellows that day and that's what he got. Time for Cody to grow up a bit and let it go really.

Quote from: NAG1 on September 29, 2014, 12:04:37 PM

Quote from: orangeman on September 29, 2014, 11:44:06 AM
Cody not pulling any punches in this interview. He's his own man, that's for sure.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/cody-puts-referee-kelly-and-former-kilkenny-greats-in-his-crosshairs-289094.html

This is the kind of thing that puts me Cody, he has just won an All Ireland and instead of being happy with that he uses the time to have a go at a ref. KK play on the borderline of the rules and frequently over it, they are one of the most cynical teams in the country in most aspects of the game.
If you look back to his gripe about HS getting the line from BK, he deserved to get two yellows that day and that's what he got. Time for Cody to grow up a bit and let it go really.

At this stage he isn't going to lose the bitter streak. Cut from the same cloth as Alex Ferguson in that regard.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 29, 2014, 01:38:04 PM

Quote from: NAG1 on September 29, 2014, 12:04:37 PM

Quote from: orangeman on September 29, 2014, 11:44:06 AM
Cody not pulling any punches in this interview. He's his own man, that's for sure.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/cody-puts-referee-kelly-and-former-kilkenny-greats-in-his-crosshairs-289094.html

This is the kind of thing that puts me Cody, he has just won an All Ireland and instead of being happy with that he uses the time to have a go at a ref. KK play on the borderline of the rules and frequently over it, they are one of the most cynical teams in the country in most aspects of the game.
If you look back to his gripe about HS getting the line from BK, he deserved to get two yellows that day and that's what he got. Time for Cody to grow up a bit and let it go really.

At this stage he isn't going to lose the bitter streak. Cut from the same cloth as Alex Ferguson in that regard.

I would find it different if he actually had something to be bitter about, he has the best squad in the country available to him almost every year, he bullies most refs and his players more or less get to do what they want on the pitch and somehow its still not enough.

In the first half Callanan charged at Pádraig Walsh in identical fashion to Hogan three wells previously and was awarded a free in.

Quote from: johnneycool on September 29, 2014, 10:56:54 AM
One thing of note, the fine elbow delivered by Richie Power just as the ball was dropping to allow the catch that set up his goal.

He's one cunning, skillful hoor and reminds me of Luis Suarez in that way. His three goals in the finals were all genius. Quick-thinking and incredible skill.

And this goal Aidan Fogarty scored against Cork in the 2010 semi-final probably demonstrates Power's cleverness better than any other. He doesn't touch Donal Og, just flashes his hurl across his line of vision, and Donal Og dropped it for Fogarty to score.

It's at about 1:10 in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22ubZ-Ov7z8

Quote from: Asal Mor on September 29, 2014, 03:16:00 PM

Quote from: johnneycool on September 29, 2014, 10:56:54 AM
One thing of note, the fine elbow delivered by Richie Power just as the ball was dropping to allow the catch that set up his goal.

He's one cunning, skillful hoor and reminds me of Luis Suarez in that way. His three goals in the finals were all genius. Quick-thinking and incredible skill.

And this goal Aidan Fogarty scored against Cork in the 2010 semi-final probably demonstrates Power's cleverness better than any other. He doesn't touch Donal Og, just flashes his hurl across his line of vision, and Donal Og dropped it for Fogarty to score.

It's at about 1:10 in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22ubZ-Ov7z8

Imm glad someone else brought powers goal up. Just before the ball came in bergin got an arm in the face allowing a clean catch. I think if really analyse costs view on Barry Kelly it's endorsement of lambasting ant ref that doesn't let kilkenny foul
The kilkenny goalie was getting feirce praise for running out and taking callinans legs from under him
Looked like a penalty to me. Kilkenny coughed up 3 penaltys i two games and thanks to james Nash they weren't punished
Brian Cody is a great manager but his crack at Barry Kelly is uncalled for

So much for Cody not talking about referees and their decisions. Anyway, his comments are probably designed to ensure that Kelly doesn't ref them again in the near future as his "style" doesn't suit them.

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on September 29, 2014, 04:15:28 PM
So much for Cody not talking about referees and their decisions. Anyway, his comments are probably designed to ensure that Kelly doesn't ref them again in the near future as his "style" doesn't suit them.

If Kelly was from a traditional hurling county the posse would be running to support him, but as he's from Westmeath he is fed to the wolves.

Gavin let Kilkenny away with a lot.

Quote from: manfromdelmonte on September 29, 2014, 08:09:06 PM
Gavin let Kilkenny away with a lot.

Bollocks. He gave Tipp a penalty for absolutely nothing ffs.

Quote from: gallsman on September 29, 2014, 11:24:05 PM
Bollocks. He gave Tipp a penalty for absolutely nothing ffs.

ithit

I don't think it is bollocks gallsman. Gavin wasn't biased but he let all the spare arm grabs and pulls go, and tapping the arms and shoulders (of the man in possession) with the hurl went unpunished too. It suited Kilkenny as they do that stuff better anyone.

I think he gave Tipperary quite a lot of dubious frees, but as the lads said, his style is more conducive to Kilkenny's more in your face approach. I don't have a problem with Kilkenny's approach, but it's definitely true that a certain type of ref would give them fits.

Offaly had the same thing with Herbert from Galway. He just interpreted every defensive flick by a defender as a foul, he must have seen it as playing the hurley or possibly a pull across the man. He did it to every team, but Offaly had defenders who made a living on that sort of dispossession and he used to crucify them.

I thought the ref had quite a decent game, allowed both plays to push and pull equally. Made a mistake with the penalty, but in the end it didn't have any impact.

Cody is right Kelly had an absolute shocker last day.

"Who knows when it will all end for us in Kilkenny. You can't keep winning the whole time, but we are definitely going to keep trying."

I love this quote from King Henry

Quote from: johnneycool on September 29, 2014, 04:33:29 PM

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on September 29, 2014, 04:15:28 PM
So much for Cody not talking about referees and their decisions. Anyway, his comments are probably designed to ensure that Kelly doesn't ref them again in the near future as his "style" doesn't suit them.

If Kelly was from a traditional hurling county the posse would be running to support him, but as he's from Westmeath he is fed to the wolves.

You can be sure our chairman won't miss this opportunity to get his name out there in defence of Kelly. In this instance I would actually agree with him.

As much as I admire the greatest hurling manager of all time, managing the greatest team of all time , he is out of order with his comments about Barry Kelly. Kelly is one of the few refs actually blowing the whistle for fouls.gavin letting eveything go suited kk very well and they could foul practically with impunity then. Mind you I don't think that michael kavanagh would have done his county any favours with his revelations about how kk play the ref. according to kav on the Sunday game, he said that kk players will wait to see how the ref is blowing up fouling in a game and then play accordingly. Makes sense in a way but the gaa should pull Cody on his comments . They are only designed to influence the choice of refs for kk matches and should not be tolerated. With gavin letting a lot go, it was only natural for both teams to be pulling and dragging with the free hand and in fairness, it was much easier for donal Og with zoom in cameras to be focusing on those type of fouls. Gavin had only a split second to make his decisions on the day!

That's it cicfada. Kelly's the one trying to apply the rules properly, and his style facilitated the better game.

Quote from: Asal Mor on September 30, 2014, 11:02:18 AM
That's it cicfada. Kelly's the one trying to apply the rules properly, and his style facilitated the better game.

I'd be in general agreement with this although there was a lot to be admired in the defensive blocking, hooking and so on especially by the Kilkenny defence in the replay. They can defend better than anyone without the pulling and dragging which they will engage in if let do.

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on September 30, 2014, 09:45:09 AM

Quote from: johnneycool on September 29, 2014, 04:33:29 PM

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on September 29, 2014, 04:15:28 PM
So much for Cody not talking about referees and their decisions. Anyway, his comments are probably designed to ensure that Kelly doesn't ref them again in the near future as his "style" doesn't suit them.

If Kelly was from a traditional hurling county the posse would be running to support him, but as he's from Westmeath he is fed to the wolves.

You can be sure our chairman won't miss this opportunity to get his name out there in defence of Kelly. In this instance I would actually agree with him.

aye,
but he won't carry the same weight in the corridors of power as Frank Murphy say, but then again few do.

It's a pity that Power dig on the Tipp back just before the killer goal wasn't picked up . I really don't think there is much between the cats and the chasing pack at this stage.
And it would make you feel better about Henry being sent off last year too.
They always skate very close to the edge.

BTW the razzmatazz after the match is a pain in the hole.
It's too in your face triumphalist for the GAA, I think. None of the Tipp people stayed around for it.
Why would you?  Mass borrowing from other sports and cultures.
I wonder who came up with it.

The pitch invasion culture was more like it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L088BmV4-g

Quote from: seafoid on September 30, 2014, 11:35:30 AM
BTW the razzmatazz after the match is a pain in the hole.
It's too in your face triumphalist for the GAA, I think. None of the Tipp people stayed around for it.
Why would you?  Mass borrowing from other sports and cultures.
I wonder who came up with it.

The pitch invasion culture was more like it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L088BmV4-g

Too true, it's completely unnecessary, as is the blaring out of music etc at every opportunity. McKenna's greasy paws are all over this I should think ,he was glowing about the 'razzmatazz' at the colleges game there a few weeks back and it's clearly what he's trying to achieve here. Sooner he and his ilk are gone the better.

Quote from: Owenmoresider on September 30, 2014, 01:10:29 PM

Quote from: seafoid on September 30, 2014, 11:35:30 AM
BTW the razzmatazz after the match is a pain in the hole.
It's too in your face triumphalist for the GAA, I think. None of the Tipp people stayed around for it.
Why would you?  Mass borrowing from other sports and cultures.
I wonder who came up with it.

The pitch invasion culture was more like it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L088BmV4-g

Too true, it's completely unnecessary, as is the blaring out of music etc at every opportunity. McKenna's greasy paws are all over this I should think ,he was glowing about the 'razzmatazz' at the colleges game there a few weeks back and it's clearly what he's trying to achieve here. Sooner he and his ilk are gone the better.

Yeah.
Outside the pitch the fans all mix together and discuss the match- I think it's really alien to the GAA culture to have all that tinsel
and whatever crap music they play for the lap of the pitch. 
   

+1

All the fecking music pumping does my head in (love cats ffs)

I think its fake as get out and as you say totally alien to real GAA supporters.

Stayed on for the presentation Saturday and was really underwhelmed. Maybe that was due to the underwhelming response from the Kilkenny fans and the near deserted stadium. 10 All Irelands in 15 seasons would dilute any fan's passion I suppose.

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on September 30, 2014, 09:45:09 AM

Quote from: johnneycool on September 29, 2014, 04:33:29 PM

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on September 29, 2014, 04:15:28 PM
So much for Cody not talking about referees and their decisions. Anyway, his comments are probably designed to ensure that Kelly doesn't ref them again in the near future as his "style" doesn't suit them.

If Kelly was from a traditional hurling county the posse would be running to support him, but as he's from Westmeath he is fed to the wolves.

You can be sure our chairman won't miss this opportunity to get his name out there in defence of Kelly. In this instance I would actually agree with him.

And here he is;

Form horgan stand.

Westmeath County Board chairman Sean Sheridan says Brian Cody's attack on Lake County referee Barry Kelly was "unwarranted".

The legendary Cats manager aimed an extraordinary verbal volley in Kelly's direction on Sunday relating to his handling of the drawn All-Ireland SHC final three weeks earlier and Sheridan says his fellow countyman deserves an apology:

"I am very disappointed that Brian Cody, a man we and every young lad playing hurling look up to in our county, would say such things," he remarks in The Irish Examiner. "Words can't truly describe how I feel about a man of his profession making those comments.

"Barry Kelly is an outstanding referee. This was his fourth All-Ireland final. I wouldn't tolerate what Brian Cody said and I wish he could think about it and revise his statement. We will be taking it further down the line. It was insulting to Barry Kelly and his family.

"That game is over and done with. Kilkenny won the replay. A man of his calibre, I wouldn't expect that from Brian Cody. I just wonder what he makes of the word 'criminal' because it means a lot of things to me. That was very unwarranted."

Quote from: theskull1 on September 30, 2014, 02:58:00 PM
+1

All the fecking music pumping does my head in (love cats ffs)

I think its fake as get out and as you say totally alien to real GAA supporters.

Camogs had music too after their game, think Down were something highly original like 'flower of the county Down' whereas Limerick got 'Zombie' by the Cranberries, always loved that wee ditty from Dolores and the crew.

Quote from: johnneycool on September 30, 2014, 03:04:17 PM

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on September 30, 2014, 09:45:09 AM

Quote from: johnneycool on September 29, 2014, 04:33:29 PM

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on September 29, 2014, 04:15:28 PM
So much for Cody not talking about referees and their decisions. Anyway, his comments are probably designed to ensure that Kelly doesn't ref them again in the near future as his "style" doesn't suit them.

If Kelly was from a traditional hurling county the posse would be running to support him, but as he's from Westmeath he is fed to the wolves.

You can be sure our chairman won't miss this opportunity to get his name out there in defence of Kelly. In this instance I would actually agree with him.

And here he is;

Form horgan stand.

Westmeath County Board chairman Sean Sheridan says Brian Cody's attack on Lake County referee Barry Kelly was "unwarranted".

The legendary Cats manager aimed an extraordinary verbal volley in Kelly's direction on Sunday relating to his handling of the drawn All-Ireland SHC final three weeks earlier and Sheridan says his fellow countyman deserves an apology:

"I am very disappointed that Brian Cody, a man we and every young lad playing hurling look up to in our county, would say such things," he remarks in The Irish Examiner. "Words can't truly describe how I feel about a man of his profession making those comments.

"Barry Kelly is an outstanding referee. This was his fourth All-Ireland final. I wouldn't tolerate what Brian Cody said and I wish he could think about it and revise his statement. We will be taking it further down the line. It was insulting to Barry Kelly and his family.

"That game is over and done with. Kilkenny won the replay. A man of his calibre, I wouldn't expect that from Brian Cody. I just wonder what he makes of the word 'criminal' because it means a lot of things to me. That was very unwarranted."

Didn't take long in fairness, agree with every word of it. If only we were as swift and thorough with all our affairs...

There really was no need for this from Cody. It is very Alex Ferguson esque. I hope he gets reprimanded from powers that be. Yes maybe Kelly made a mistake or two but there aren't many better refs about.

Quote from: johnneycool on September 30, 2014, 03:07:09 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on September 30, 2014, 02:58:00 PM
+1

All the fecking music pumping does my head in (love cats ffs)

I think its fake as get out and as you say totally alien to real GAA supporters.

Camogs had music too after their game, think Down were something highly original like 'flower of the county Down' whereas Limerick got 'Zombie' by the Cranberries, always loved that wee ditty from Dolores and the crew.

No imagination for the cats. They could have had a 3 minute video of highlights of the last 10 all Irelands or something but what they had was so bland.

If the great B Kelly is so good at applying the rules why were,

Two fouls outside the box given as penalties  in the first game.
The face mask pull on R Power clearly seen by all not punished .
And if the free given against B Hogan was a foul we would end up with the farcical situation  that has become of football with no flow to any game.

He is anti KK and has been for years,. If Cody doesnt say it as it is then who will. All this anti KK sentiment is the same crap that has been going on for years by counties that are just not good enough. Fair play to the Tipp fans after the game all saying only one team deserved to win while still praising their own as well.

Catscream, it was obvious that Kilkenny were better on the day. I don't think there's any debate about that, and even then Tipp had their chances. However, I don't think Barry Kelly was chronic the first day, and it doesn't cast Cody in a great light to be going on about it now. I know you can make the point that it's better to do it when you've won, and can't be accused of sour grapes, but it still comes off very badly.
Barry Kelly got some stuff wrong last time out, but he got a lot of stuff right too. Brian Gavin got some stuff wrong this time out, but he got a lot right as well.

The point that neutrals, and even slightly Tipp biased lads like myself, are making is that different refs have different styles, and Brian Gavin has a style which suits the Kilkenny approach, which is a physical approach. I've already said I have no issue with that approach per se, but giving out about Kelly because he probably has the more correct 'letter of the law' approach in general (notwithstanding the errors you've referred to) is unnecessary.

Kilkenny are brilliant, and a pleasure to have seen this past 14 years, but they are not whiter than white. If they were, they'd have won nothing.

(By the way, Paddy Stapleton, James Barry, Paudie Maher are all well able to leave in a hurley or a stray arm themselves, and this was also let go by Gavin).

Quote from: Catscream on September 30, 2014, 04:26:38 PM
If the great B Kelly is so good at applying the rules why were,

Two fouls outside the box given as penalties  in the first game.
The face mask pull on R Power clearly seen by all not punished .
And if the free given against B Hogan was a foul we would end up with the farcical situation  that has become of football with no flow to any game.

He is anti KK and has been for years,. If Cody doesnt say it as it is then who will. All this anti KK sentiment is the same crap that has been going on for years by counties that are just not good enough. Fair play to the Tipp fans after the game all saying only one team deserved to win while still praising their own as well.

What anti-KK sentiment?????

Quote from: Catscream on September 30, 2014, 04:26:38 PM
If the great B Kelly is so good at applying the rules why were,

Two fouls outside the box given as penalties  in the first game.
The face mask pull on R Power clearly seen by all not punished .
And if the free given against B Hogan was a foul we would end up with the farcical situation  that has become of football with no flow to any game.

He is anti KK and has been for years,. If Cody doesnt say it as it is then who will. All this anti KK sentiment is the same crap that has been going on for years by counties that are just not good enough. Fair play to the Tipp fans after the game all saying only one team deserved to win while still praising their own as well.

The cats in full flow are a joy to watch and the stickwork is exceptional but it doesn't have to be unconditional love. Keher is an arsehole and KK know when to play dirty with the chances it won't be picked up. They will win whatever it takes.

Quote from: seafoid on September 30, 2014, 08:29:00 PM

Quote from: Catscream on September 30, 2014, 04:26:38 PM
If the great B Kelly is so good at applying the rules why were,

Two fouls outside the box given as penalties  in the first game.
The face mask pull on R Power clearly seen by all not punished .
And if the free given against B Hogan was a foul we would end up with the farcical situation  that has become of football with no flow to any game.

He is anti KK and has been for years,. If Cody doesnt say it as it is then who will. All this anti KK sentiment is the same crap that has been going on for years by counties that are just not good enough. Fair play to the Tipp fans after the game all saying only one team deserved to win while still praising their own as well.

The cats in full flow are a joy to watch and the stickwork is exceptional but it doesn't have to be unconditional love. Keher is an arsehole and KK know when to play dirty with the chances it won't be picked up. They will win whatever it takes.

I don't think its even considered dirty, its the marginal stuff that they excel in, the tug on the upper arm, the slap down, some refs blow them up for it (Kelly, McGrath) and some don't (B Gavin).

All teams have players who are also at it, Shane O'Neill (Cork), Paudie Maher, Barrett (tipp) would also be good proponents of it, but Kilkenny are the masters of it, so maybe its time the Clares, Galways, Limericks of the world got cuter at it as well rather than the big obvious flail at someone.

Quote from: johnneycool on October 01, 2014, 09:13:09 AM

Quote from: seafoid on September 30, 2014, 08:29:00 PM

Quote from: Catscream on September 30, 2014, 04:26:38 PM
If the great B Kelly is so good at applying the rules why were,

Two fouls outside the box given as penalties  in the first game.
The face mask pull on R Power clearly seen by all not punished .
And if the free given against B Hogan was a foul we would end up with the farcical situation  that has become of football with no flow to any game.

He is anti KK and has been for years,. If Cody doesnt say it as it is then who will. All this anti KK sentiment is the same crap that has been going on for years by counties that are just not good enough. Fair play to the Tipp fans after the game all saying only one team deserved to win while still praising their own as well.

The cats in full flow are a joy to watch and the stickwork is exceptional but it doesn't have to be unconditional love. Keher is an arsehole and KK know when to play dirty with the chances it won't be picked up. They will win whatever it takes.

I don't think its even considered dirty, its the marginal stuff that they excel in, the tug on the upper arm, the slap down, some refs blow them up for it (Kelly, McGrath) and some don't (B Gavin).

All teams have players who are also at it, Shane O'Neill (Cork), Paudie Maher, Barrett (tipp) would also be good proponents of it, but Kilkenny are the masters of it, so maybe its time the Clares, Galways, Limericks of the world got cuter at it as well rather than the big obvious flail at someone.

It's funny there's a big hoo haa about Cody being out of line in his comments on Barry Kelly as its not the first time he has attacked someone after an all Ireland win
He referred to Ger Loughnane as that lunatic from clare a few years back when Ger came out and said kilkenny played on the edge on the rules front. I wonder will he afford M Kavanagh the same response now- don't think so
I always thought his attack on Loughnane was ironic when he took his template for sucess with the clare team of the nineties ( hard In house training matches in crusheen ) and applied it to his own county which had better resources

Quote from: johnneycool on October 01, 2014, 09:13:09 AM

Quote from: seafoid on September 30, 2014, 08:29:00 PM

Quote from: Catscream on September 30, 2014, 04:26:38 PM
If the great B Kelly is so good at applying the rules why were,

Two fouls outside the box given as penalties  in the first game.
The face mask pull on R Power clearly seen by all not punished .
And if the free given against B Hogan was a foul we would end up with the farcical situation  that has become of football with no flow to any game.

He is anti KK and has been for years,. If Cody doesnt say it as it is then who will. All this anti KK sentiment is the same crap that has been going on for years by counties that are just not good enough. Fair play to the Tipp fans after the game all saying only one team deserved to win while still praising their own as well.

The cats in full flow are a joy to watch and the stickwork is exceptional but it doesn't have to be unconditional love. Keher is an arsehole and KK know when to play dirty with the chances it won't be picked up. They will win whatever it takes.

I don't think its even considered dirty, its the marginal stuff that they excel in, the tug on the upper arm, the slap down, some refs blow them up for it (Kelly, McGrath) and some don't (B Gavin).

All teams have players who are also at it, Shane O'Neill (Cork), Paudie Maher, Barrett (tipp) would also be good proponents of it, but Kilkenny are the masters of it, so maybe its time the Clares, Galways, Limericks of the world got cuter at it as well rather than the big obvious flail at someone.

Let's say it's not particularly sporting

Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2014, 01:48:36 PM

Quote from: johnneycool on October 01, 2014, 09:13:09 AM

Quote from: seafoid on September 30, 2014, 08:29:00 PM

Quote from: Catscream on September 30, 2014, 04:26:38 PM
If the great B Kelly is so good at applying the rules why were,

Two fouls outside the box given as penalties  in the first game.
The face mask pull on R Power clearly seen by all not punished .
And if the free given against B Hogan was a foul we would end up with the farcical situation  that has become of football with no flow to any game.

He is anti KK and has been for years,. If Cody doesnt say it as it is then who will. All this anti KK sentiment is the same crap that has been going on for years by counties that are just not good enough. Fair play to the Tipp fans after the game all saying only one team deserved to win while still praising their own as well.

The cats in full flow are a joy to watch and the stickwork is exceptional but it doesn't have to be unconditional love. Keher is an arsehole and KK know when to play dirty with the chances it won't be picked up. They will win whatever it takes.

I don't think its even considered dirty, its the marginal stuff that they excel in, the tug on the upper arm, the slap down, some refs blow them up for it (Kelly, McGrath) and some don't (B Gavin).

All teams have players who are also at it, Shane O'Neill (Cork), Paudie Maher, Barrett (tipp) would also be good proponents of it, but Kilkenny are the masters of it, so maybe its time the Clares, Galways, Limericks of the world got cuter at it as well rather than the big obvious flail at someone.

Let's say it's not particularly sporting

This isn't cricket.

As Mick Kavanagh pointed out, you play to the referees interpretation of the rules, not how you think the rules are meant to be.


I'm sure if Fergal Moore was to pull the arm of Richie Hogan to prevent him scoring a goal in an AI final and get away with it for Galway to win, you would be overlooking that particular unsporting action.

Quote from: johnneycool on October 01, 2014, 02:57:03 PM

Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2014, 01:48:36 PM

Quote from: johnneycool on October 01, 2014, 09:13:09 AM

Quote from: seafoid on September 30, 2014, 08:29:00 PM

Quote from: Catscream on September 30, 2014, 04:26:38 PM
If the great B Kelly is so good at applying the rules why were,

Two fouls outside the box given as penalties  in the first game.
The face mask pull on R Power clearly seen by all not punished .
And if the free given against B Hogan was a foul we would end up with the farcical situation  that has become of football with no flow to any game.

He is anti KK and has been for years,. If Cody doesnt say it as it is then who will. All this anti KK sentiment is the same crap that has been going on for years by counties that are just not good enough. Fair play to the Tipp fans after the game all saying only one team deserved to win while still praising their own as well.

The cats in full flow are a joy to watch and the stickwork is exceptional but it doesn't have to be unconditional love. Keher is an arsehole and KK know when to play dirty with the chances it won't be picked up. They will win whatever it takes.

I don't think its even considered dirty, its the marginal stuff that they excel in, the tug on the upper arm, the slap down, some refs blow them up for it (Kelly, McGrath) and some don't (B Gavin).

All teams have players who are also at it, Shane O'Neill (Cork), Paudie Maher, Barrett (tipp) would also be good proponents of it, but Kilkenny are the masters of it, so maybe its time the Clares, Galways, Limericks of the world got cuter at it as well rather than the big obvious flail at someone.

Let's say it's not particularly sporting

This isn't cricket.

As Mick Kavanagh pointed out, you play to the referees interpretation of the rules, not how you think the rules are meant to be.


I'm sure if Fergal Moore was to pull the arm of Richie Hogan to prevent him scoring a goal in an AI final and get away with it for Galway to win, you would be overlooking that particular unsporting action.

I was thinking about that. I'm not sure I would.  I'd hope they'd be far enough ahead for it not to matter  ;)
I think the unsporting stuff does sully the 10 all Irelands actually.

And "the referee's interpretation"- Cody does a lot of passive aggressive stuff towards refs. 
The whole state of refereeing consistency is a massive issue for the GAA. 

what was Vince Lombardi's quote; "show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser"

He also said 'Act like you've been here before'.

Quote from: johnneycool on October 01, 2014, 04:31:33 PM
what was Vince Lombardi's quote; "show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser"

I'm not a fan of this quote or Vince Lombardi quotes in general. Learning to be gracious in defeat is one of the most valuable lessons you can get from sport. I think those Lombardi quotes encourage a lot of the silliness and gimmicks that we see in team management in the GAA these days.

When you take one in isolation, yes. If you look at his quotes as a whole, they're pretty good. the 'act like you've been there before' quote refers to winning (or scoring) with dignity.

There are some good ones to be fair. I've just read a lot of GAA biographies in the last few years, and they're all quoting him, like religious people quote the bible.

I came across this gem on the Tipp hurling forum. It's an old one apparently and may have been posted here before. I believe the original poster was called "Timber". He was a Tipp fan posting before a Tipp v Galway match. Had me in stitches anyway.


"Awful pity the Hill isn't open Sunday, severely decreases the opportunity for a bit of Mattie Baiting. Nothing better than positioning yourself in between a couple of groups of stone wall Matties and having them spitting feathers before a ball is even thrown in. If carried out correctly as per the below guide it should be mission accomplished before throw in, leaving you free to concentrate on the game at hand.

Many theories are held on the ideal positioning to attack your chosen Matties. Personally, I prefer to place myself directly in front of one group and behind another as this gives you the ultimate Mattie Baiting experience while still giving you an easy escape route left and right in case things get messy. It must be remembered that the Mattie is an extremely volatile creature and can flip at the mere mention of words like 89, Denton or Leahy.

So how does one distinguish a stone wall Mattie? Probably the two biggest factors are age and location. Your Mattie must be old enough to clearly remember the 89 affair and still be young enough to maintain a meaningful degree of bitterness. While bitterness is innate in all born within the countys border and has been witnessed in Matties as young as seven and eight, its best stick to the above criteria. You also need a Mattie that lives somewhere between Loughrea and Ballinslaoe. Kilbeacanty, Ahascragh, Killimordaly and Cappatagle are all renowned sources of this most bitter of creatures. At least three of any group should indeed be called Mattie and all should be dressed in their chosen attire of Galway jersey tucked into blue jeans stuck to their arse, complimented by buckled black shoes and a maroon and white headband tied on so tight the top of their head has turned purple. Id be looking for a group in their mid forties, most of whom should look like a cross between Sylvie Linnane and PJ O Connell. Ideally they shouldn't have missed a hurling match of any description since 'that person of a Cortina' let down Mattie Garvey bringing the boys to a league game during the thin freeze of 85.

The baiting should start as soon as you're in. Brag loudly about the bet you placed in Donie Mearas during the week, describing your Tipp -7 as 'money in the bank'. Have a laugh at the lads you saw in there backing Galway, 'one f**king eejit even backed them for the All-Ireland!!' is a popular one, best said with tears in your eyes. Your Matties should have noticed your presence by now, and should start shuffling nervously.

Next you whip out the programme. Again, laughing is key here. Start laughing the minute you open it. Wonder what gobshite they have in the goals this time, and add that they haven't had a decent keeper since Seamus Shinnors. Point out a few more lads, mispronounce their club and mention that they wouldn't make a decent Junior team in Tipp. You might get a bit of lip out them here, ignore it.

The teams should be making their way out by now. The minute you see Joe Canning, its time for a few disparaging remarks about his weight. Matties love Joe Canning. He's the one dying ember of hope they have of rediscovering the glory days, i.e the 13 months between August 1987 and September 1988. 'Jaysus, Curran wont know whether to mark him or calve him'' should do the trick. Wonder is he finished before describing the other five forwards as 'too windy'. Now might be an ideal time to wonder should you have gone for the Tipp -9 altogether.

As indicated at the start, you may well find yourselves in verbal conflict by now. Its vital to stay calm in these situations. Don't hit them, that's what they want you to do. Years of inbreeding and bitterness have ravaged their mental function to the extent that they can be easily outsmarted, even if you have overdone it in Quinns. The interchange wont get any more highbrow than calling ya 'a thick Tipp person' and describing us as 'red rotten usheless'.

Should things get physical or ye need assistance at any time, just roar 'we have a live one'. Myself, Mansfield and a few more expert baiters will be positioned at various points around the ground and will be on hand to diffuse the situation. Don't try do it yourself. Its best done by lads living within five miles of the bridge with at least five years of education in a Galway institution of education (The 5+5 Rule) and who have drank at least 500 pints in Ronnie Curleys.

Good luck and God Speed, and lets at all times remember the mantra of one of our fallen comrades.

As my Granfather, Lord Have Mercy on him, once said 'Show me Galway man, and I'll show ya a person'."

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/kilkenny-have-produced-the-only-meaningful-hurling-revolution-1.1951475?page=2

At around 7pm last Saturday evening, Tipperary manager Eamonn O'Shea gave one of the great Irish sporting valedictories. They should stick it on the Leaving Certificate course but the printed word could never do it justice; you need to hear the words as they were spoken.
He was composed but it was plain that the emotion of the match and the crushing disappointment was still flooding through his veins. He spoke with moving honesty about the team and his players as people, rationalising defeat even as he absorbed its pain and daring to admit the one thing that he couldn't admit during the season: that for him, the game of hurling exists on a slightly higher plane than the mere result.
"I do think that there are more important things and there are men down there who . . . didn't flinch when things didn't go their way and yet the team kept going. That is my understanding of sport. But when Tipp play now, we keep playing until it is no longer possible."

Is the speech anywhere online?

They were never going to "do" Cody. Not guilty.

Small consolation for Tipp in that they got more All Stars.