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Thought Cavanagh walked a tight line on his referee comments. Whether he overstepped the mark is a matter of opinion.

For what it matters his defence of McKenna was very forceful. The problem I had with overall discussion was that it suggested it was OK to come in and back up a team mate. Not only is that what starts a melee but if the rules do not allow you to defend yourself they can hardly allow you to defend a team mate.

There also seemed to be an agenda to blame Fermanagh for starting things - and the hand in face did not look good - but the simple fact is that if the Tyrone player had have released the ball when the referee blew his whistle then none of this would have happened.

In the end no matter what people think of the referee players caused the problem and he was probably under pressure to act in line with previous episodes.  We all asked for consistency after all.

One sure thing is that the gaa are definitely amature when it comes to enforcing rules or applying consistency.

While I agree on a lack of consistency the GAA will point out that the decisions of the referee were enforced in the Dublin v Kerry game, the Armagh v Donegal game and the Armagh v Tyrone game. The only person cited who was not picked out by referee was Rian O'Neill - and he won his appeal.

I have watched him and he is very good, just think that on what he has done so far he is over-rated and statements like yours there further add to that belief.  I was just interested to see his scoring stats from play as I don't think he contributes enough to the score board.  I would take the current version of Michael Murphy over him too and wouldn't have him as second best player in the country.

On a thread that is verging on the ridiculous at times (exception David McKeown) this is by far the most ridiculous by some distance. O'Neill's playing credentials are without question.

Agreed Mackers.

Martin McHugh is also on the CCC who looked at the Rian O'Neill incident. So we have the father of a Donegal player making decisions on an 'independent' panel who cited and issued a suspension to Armaghs best player. It's parish pump stuff.

Oneill still gave them more than enough to go on though... not as if mchugh has the final call but the evidence of a "strike" is there unfortunately for neutral fans.

Exactly. They didn't pull it out of thin air. It is cut & dried.

You may argue that they missed Donegal boys doing things that warrant suspension but Rian O'Neill is getting what he deserves for what he did.

It's far from cut and dried. We also don't know what he is been suspended for.

I have no issue if the players are getting suspended because their actions went further than merely the handbag stuff provided the following criteria are met. Firstly there is sufficient evidence that they went further and crucially they are charged with offences other than contributing to a melee. If both criteria are not met then I have an issue because one of two things have happened.

One either there's no consistency to the nebulous rule of contributing to a melee and a different standard is applied to players not only in different games but even in the same melees. No rule can sensibly exist with such inconsistent application.

Or two. The authorities know these players committed serious offences but don't have the evidence to prove it. As a result theyve ignored fundamental principles of fairness and natural justice to try and punish them regardless. That's an extreme injustice.

Of course it all loops back to. How 11 days after the incident we still don't know for certain what players are charged with is shambolic.  Particularly if we want to stop 'this sort of thing'.

I agree in particular that what Rian O'Neill did is not ' cut and dried'. If the referee had sent him off the video is unlikely to have cleared him but the pictures I saw do not prove conclusively that he punched anyone. I assume his argument will be that he was pushing an aggressor away ala Forker and Murphy discussed earlier.

It should also be noted that players are entitled to appeal. Conor McManus got his red overturned earlier in league.

Jesus I really liked watching Armagh over the course of the league, but ye are the greatest shower of whingers I've come across. And we have the Rossies for neighbours, so that's saying something.

Maybe we should ask a few posters to pretend they are Kerry posters so there can be more talk about league final ? 

https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2022/03/31/news/bans-hurt-armagh-more-than-donegal-devenney-2629484/

"It's certainly a marker being laid down by the powers that be to say 'here, cut the crap or you'll miss big championship games'.

Shame the power that be only look at Ulster   Northern Teams, Kerry and Dublin are untouchable and always have been.

If Dublin had been involved in TWO separate brawls during a single league campaign like Armagh have been, there would be uproar and outrage from all corners. It's actually incredible to me that more is not being made of the fact that Armagh are repeat offenders here.

You will be pleased to hear then that Armagh and Dublin played out a challenge match last night and there wasn't a brawl in sight. Think it was mostly squad members and Dublin won by a couple of points.

If Murphy struck on the full time whistle and there is no video evidence available, then I'm afraid that he will not be suspended. It doesn't mean that he is innocent, just that he didn't get caught.

Presumably both teams will have videoed  the match along with the actual TV footage but neither side are going to release footage incriminating their own players. Obviously the GAA have access to a lot more footage than we have seen publicly, otherwise I'm not sure how they could suspend the 3 Armagh lads who supposedly have received bans.

Either way there will appeals and counter appeals as this rumbles on for weeks.

As oisin said after the tyrone game, there shouldn't be any appeals. Tyrone should just take their medicine. Funny I haven't heard him say it this time.

Where was he interviewed?

Does he have to be interviewed to give his opinion? Isn't that what social media is for. He was passionate about the gaa drawing a line in the sand and saying enough is enough and that tyrone shouldn't appeal decisions. Well shoe is on the other foot now so if he was sincere come out and tell armagh to suck it up.

Same as kieran. Was having a dig at tyrone saying fergal will be sticking in an appeal then he has the cheek to appeal the single red card they got.

If he did say that (I dunno) then perhaps he should heed his own advice. Regardless, pundits are always going to be biased towards their own county.  Armagh are no different and Tyrone are no different  - its the nature of the game.

He said it on the Sunday game I think it was and I agreed with him. Most of tyrones red cards were justified and I had hoped that tyrone wouldn't appeal it but unfortunately they tried to.

Oisin is a very good pundit and is usually fair enough to be honest hopefully he will come out now that the players have been identified. As someone else has said this is like gold dust for Armagh in terms of creating a team bond. They should be well up for the rematch

I think I said before.

It is highly unlikely Oisin will say anything about it this week. He is part of Armagh under 20 management team who play Donegal in Ballybofey this Friday. He won't want to add any spice.

In the BBC podcast interview with Sam Mulroy he did quip he didn't think Armagh and Donegal liked each other. Think that is as far as he will go.

Good interview Oisin and Niblock had with Mulroy by the way.

So 3 for Armagh and 2 for Donegal.........don't know how they picked Soupy out of all that was happening in real time, and why only 2 for Donegal......??.  But, we were involved and need to take the punishment and move on, although it is hard to comprehend how out of all that happened, Michael Murphy did not get banned given he started it just at then end of normal time where the Linesman was right beside him!  Time now for Armagh to focus on the game and hopefully this will drive them on!

Yeah Soupy seems unfortunate and its a bit bizarre that only two from Donegal. Probably little chance of being successful with any appeal as HQ are looking to clamp down on melees this year.

Without wanting to signal anyone out maybe some Donegal players got lucky in that their bibs covered their squad numbers and the referee couldn't identify them. On the other hand if the referee includes that in his report and CCCC look at video there could be a few more players in trouble.

If Murphy struck on the full time whistle and there is no video evidence available, then I'm afraid that he will not be suspended. It doesn't mean that he is innocent, just that he didn't get caught.

Presumably both teams will have videoed  the match along with the actual TV footage but neither side are going to release footage incriminating their own players. Obviously the GAA have access to a lot more footage than we have seen publicly, otherwise I'm not sure how they could suspend the 3 Armagh lads who supposedly have received bans.

Either way there will appeals and counter appeals as this rumbles on for weeks.

As oisin said after the tyrone game, there shouldn't be any appeals. Tyrone should just take their medicine. Funny I haven't heard him say it this time.

Where was he interviewed?

Think he is busy preparing for under 20 championship match on Friday

[There was an unproven allegation that the Armagh captain told her to f......g move to the other side]

You'd exoect HQ will quickly establish the Armagh are the common denominator in most of the televised brawls over the past few years. They need to make an example. Didn't they even assault the poor girl who was the Cavan flag-bearer a couple of years back kicking off another melee?

I know I shouldn't.  But

Armagh have not been involved in a number of televised brawls over the last few years - as you would no doubt gloat about they have not been on television much as they have been playing in lower leagues!

The incident you talk about was from 2014. There is no point arguing over the rights and wrongs of what happened but nobody in the band was assaulted. There was an unproven allegation that the Armagh captain told her to f......g move to the other side so Armagh, as home team, could line up closest to fans.

Ciaran McKeever was the said captain. Why conveniently leave that fact out?? Because he has lots for form for the trampish behaviour he was accused of perhaps?? By coincidence he's now the assistant manager. Not hard to see what he brings to the party.

I hope you understand there is a big difference from what was alleged to have been said and assault. I would suggest falsely accusing someone of assault is much worse than telling them f.....g move.

The assault allegation came from the all in melee that followed not the verbal altercation

I should know better.

Read what you said initially and stop making yourself look foolish.

Anyway, that is my last comment.  Your experience will undoubtedly beat me.

[There was an unproven allegation that the Armagh captain told her to f......g move to the other side]

You'd exoect HQ will quickly establish the Armagh are the common denominator in most of the televised brawls over the past few years. They need to make an example. Didn't they even assault the poor girl who was the Cavan flag-bearer a couple of years back kicking off another melee?

I know I shouldn't.  But

Armagh have not been involved in a number of televised brawls over the last few years - as you would no doubt gloat about they have not been on television much as they have been playing in lower leagues!

The incident you talk about was from 2014. There is no point arguing over the rights and wrongs of what happened but nobody in the band was assaulted. There was an unproven allegation that the Armagh captain told her to f......g move to the other side so Armagh, as home team, could line up closest to fans.

Ciaran McKeever was the said captain. Why conveniently leave that fact out?? Because he has lots for form for the trampish behaviour he was accused of perhaps?? By coincidence he's now the assistant manager. Not hard to see what he brings to the party.

I hope you understand there is a big difference from what was alleged to have been said and assault. I would suggest falsely accusing someone of assault is much worse than telling them f.....g move.

As expected, it was fairly obvious that this would become a feeding frenzy for the media especially with the 2 counties playing each other again in a few weeks time. 

No sign of Murphy in any of that footage yet some people who were at the match have suggested that he started the whole thing off. Looking at the video there at least a few players who will be sweating unless they manage to get off on some form of technicality.

And the feeding frenzy will up the tension going into the game even more.

All the more reason why the GAA need to start to stamp out this stuff.

Its only a f**king game.

And hopefully the two management teams will agree to some orderly process for getting the teams into the changing rooms at half time and we don't have scuffles when the two teams converge on the steps down into that tiny tunnel as always happens when we play Tyrone in Ballybofey. Mickey Harte held his team back one year. Bonner and McGeeney should agree to the same.

100%

You'd exoect HQ will quickly establish the Armagh are the common denominator in most of the televised brawls over the past few years. They need to make an example. Didn't they even assault the poor girl who was the Cavan flag-bearer a couple of years back kicking off another melee?

I know I shouldn't.  But

Armagh have not been involved in a number of televised brawls over the last few years - as you would no doubt gloat about they have not been on television much as they have been playing in lower leagues!

The incident you talk about was from 2014. There is no point arguing over the rights and wrongs of what happened but nobody in the band was assaulted. There was an unproven allegation that the Armagh captain told her to f......g move to the other side so Armagh, as home team, could line up closest to fans.

I'm not getting into the rights and wrongs of it but the irony of a McGee complaining about physical aggression!

Fair enough, but it was the headlocks, specifically, from what I read.

If there isn't a specific rule that states that a headlock is a red card then the GAA should introduce it into the rulebook, I have no problem with that. It is arguably more dangerous than a lot of current red card offences.

After that, if anybody choked an opponent in a headlock, then if the existing rules allow it issue them with a suspension. As long as the rules are applied evenly to both sides rather than this implication that it is a pre conceived tactic employed specifically by Armagh. Referencing an incident from 2014 bears little relevance to a League match 8 years later.

Dangerous play is a red card as is contributing to a melee and also a red card is striking, either with fist, arm, elbow, knee, foot or head. It was all uncalled for and subs should be in the stand, away ta feck from the sidlines were they are getting worked up along with the management

By not making it a specific offence it is then left down to the interpretation of the referee as to what is deemed dangerous. Is a headlock deemed dangerous? We have seen before how different instances of the same offence are dealt with differently by different referees.

I think there is a degree of dangerous play in those headlocks and I certainly would not like to be on the end of them, Ive ref'd long enough and this for me isn't something I've seen at club level as much, pulling lads apart or lads entering from outside is common but I hope we don't see it this season, once its properly up and running.

It will never have the uniform approach from even the best referees in the country, who you think is the best referee others will have a far less opinion on, his approach will suit your style of how it should be ref'd and others will view it differently, Gaelic games are not ref'd like other sports to be fair, soccer seems to be an easier sport to ref but there are still huge debates during and after the games and these ref's at the top table are professional ref's.

the melee is more in the public eye now due to social media smart phones and better coverage from the national TV stations

I was listening to Aaron Kernan on Sideline Eye podcast ( a much more measured approach than Eamon McGee elsewhere ) and he suggested that Croke Park could be influenced on suspensions by media and social media comment. Does anyone else think this is likely?
As an Armagh man I obviously don't want anyone suspended but if they are genuinely guilty and everyone else is treated equally then they only have themselves to blame. I would hate to think that biased social media comment could influence who gets a ban - especially if anyone has the misfortune to read the Hoganstand Forum !

Armagh went into the league a lot fitter than everyone else. The last few games when other teams have caught up fitness wise have shown where Armagh are really at.

Not sure the fitness point is true. They beat Dublin and Kildare who got relegated and they were fitter than Tyrone who were only back from holiday. Today they started with out their 2 best players and gave 2 other players their county debut.

Armagh are on an upward trajectory but they still have a long way to go.