Man Utd Thread:

Started by full back, November 10, 2006, 08:13:49 AM

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stiffler

Poch showed tonight what a good manager can do to a team - and doesn't need hundreds of millions to do so.
GAABoard Fantasy Cheltenham Competition- Most winners 2009

Milltown Row2

That's the quadruple out of the way, Utd should put the reserves out now against City, probably do a better job
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Over the Bar

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2019, 10:53:51 PM
That's the quadruple out of the way, Utd should put the reserves out now against City, probably do a better job

Liverpool a shoo-in for the big double.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: Over the Bar on April 17, 2019, 11:59:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2019, 10:53:51 PM
That's the quadruple out of the way, Utd should put the reserves out now against City, probably do a better job

Liverpool a shoo-in for the big double.

Well deserved if they do, they've beaten the best in Europe
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

screenexile


Keyser soze

Quote from: screenexile on April 18, 2019, 09:36:48 AM
Sometimes Paddy Power hit the nail on the head . . .

https://www.facebook.com/paddypower/videos/1808345762598570/

Sums up to a tee some of the experts on here.

magpie seanie

Quote from: seafoid on April 17, 2019, 03:19:27 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on April 17, 2019, 03:14:51 PM
Read somewhere today that 4 of the back 5 for United last night started when United were eliminated by Basle from the group stages in 2011. Jones and Young were in midfield mind you.....
It was in the Daily Telegraph initially

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/04/17/end-ole-gunnar-solskjaers-honeymoon-gone-awry-manchester-united/

The end of Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's honeymoon: What's gone awry for Manchester United and what must happen this summer?
Manchester United's form has taken a nosedive - can Ole Gunnar Solskjaer turn things around again?
•   Alistair Tweedale

17 April 2019 • 11:13am


Okay, let's not panic just yet. Yes, Manchester United are not quite the force they had threatened to be in the early days of Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's reign, and yes, after a resounding 4-0 aggregate defeat to Barcelona, they are now out of the running in every competition, meaning the success of their season rests on securing qualification for the 2019/20 Champions League.
However, given the position they were in when Jose Mourinho was sacked in December - 11 points off fourth after 17 games, if you needed reminding - the chance to make this season's top four certainly shouldn't be sniffed at.
That said, after a run of five defeats in seven games (plus two unconvincing wins) in which dreams of a cup run were dashed both domestically and in Europe, it certainly feels like Solskjaer's honeymoon period has been brought to a resounding end.
So what's happened to United, and what next for the man at the wheel?
What has happened since the high of PSG?
In the second leg of the last-16 tie against Paris St-Germain last month, United produced one of the all-time great European comebacks with a youthful team that just shouldn't have been able to overturn a 2-0 home deficit.
Since then, it's been pretty much downhill. There was a league defeat at Arsenal, followed by the end of their FA Cup run at Wolves. Solskjaer said the dressing room "felt like a funeral" so dour was the performance in the win over Watford, before another loss at Wolves, this time in the league. Then, sandwiched in between two defeats to Barcelona (into which not too much should be read, such was the gulf in quality) was an extremely fortunate 2-1 win over West Ham last weekend, which came thanks to two Paul Pogba penalties.

The results in recent weeks have been woeful, but there had been warning signs already.
What has changed?
There have been a number of factors at play, and the combination of Solskjaer's inexperience as a manager, players losing form and a series of injuries to key men have been behind United's recent slump.
Teams are setting up with compact and narrow defences against them, and with United not currently boasting any wingers and Pogba out of sorts, they have found opponents more difficult to break down.
There has been an attempt in recent weeks to give themselves as much chance as possible to attack on the counter - they have had 51 per cent, 50 per cent and just 42 per cent possession against Watford, Wolves and West Ham, respectively, after having 64 per cent against Southampton, and have had four shots on the break in their last three league games after failing to have any in their previous four. However, this attempt at playing  the 'United Way' has left them far too vulnerable at the back.
A shoddy defence given little protection
Jose Mourinho was criticised for demanding yet more money to spend on a world class centre-back rather than attempting to improve the players he already had, but the need for new personnel at the back has never been more apparent.

Four of United's back five that lost at the Nou Camp on Tuesday were also in the starting lineup when they crashed out of the group stage of the 2011/12 Champions League at Basel. Since, Ashley Young has been converted into a frankly average full-back, while Chris Smalling and Phil Jones somehow remain in front of David De Gea.
It is expected that Solskjaer will make a similar request to his predecessor this summer, and the United defence will be given a refresh.

There has also been an issue further forwards. United's winter revival was centred around a consistent midfield three, with Ander Herrera and Nemanja Matic providing protection to a back four that needed it, and Pogba given the freedom to get forwards. Solskjaer has been unable to call on Herrera and Matic at various points in recent weeks, and Fred and Scott McTominay simply haven't provided the same level of screening to a poor defence.
Teams are now scything straight through the heart of the team all too readily, and De Gea, who has made big errors against both Arsenal and Barcelona, could do with a little more help at the moment.

Injury problems

United did well to hold Liverpool to a goalless draw at Old Trafford back in Feburary but the team was decimated by injuries that day, with Ander Herrera, Jesse Lingard and Juan Mata going off, and Marcus Rashford playing a significant portion of the match with a limp.
Those injuries picked apart the core of the team upon which Solskjaer had been relying during United's incredible run of form after he took over. That quartet have missed 12 Premier League games between them since that day, while Matic, Alexis Sanchez and Eric Bailly have all been absent at various points, too.
For all the money spent at Old Trafford in recent years, their squad still isn't deep enough to deal with this number of injuries, and it has shown in recent weeks.

Where have the goals gone?

United had been fortunate to come back to beat Southampton the weekend before the PSG win, but were bailed out in both games by two Romelu Lukaku goals. That signalled the end of the streaky Belgian's latest run of form: after a run of nine games without a goal he hit six in three, but has not found the net in five appearances since.
Anthony Martial, initially reinvigorated under Solskjaer, has gone missing in recent weeks, while Lingard looks half-fit. Marcus Rashford can be brilliant as a lone centre-forward, but he still seems like he isn't quite ready to do so for a big side week in, week out, and the last few games have seen a bit of a slump. Sanchez has had no impact whatsoever.
It all adds up to significantly fewer goals being scored and results taking a nosedive.

Solskjaer's inadequacies

Fans love to see a manager who changes his lineup depending on the opposition, mainly because it provides a sense that the man in charge has an actual idea of what he is doing.
Solskjaer has changed his tactics weekly, further endearing himself to supporters that already loved him, but he has got a few calls wrong in big games in recent weeks, perhaps highlighting his lack of managerial experience at the top level.
The decision to play Young on the right side of a back three at Wolves was catastrophic, while a two-man midfield was overrun at the Emirates.
He has done incredibly to ensure the players are enjoying themselves and playing with freedom once again, but he is still learning on the job, and there may be a few more harsh lessons as he continues his education.

Is it time to panic?

There is something to be said for the fact United's recent defeats haven't actually been that catastrophic. This season, Spurs too were thrashed by Barcelona, beaten (at home) by Wolves and lost at Arsenal, while they also struggled past Watford, but their matches were just spread out over a longer period than United's tough recent run.
Their confidence has taken a hit but perhaps they should be looking at the Watford and West Ham results as positives in that they got the wins despite playing badly. After a run of 17 games in which the home PSG game was the only loss, a poorer run is not the end of the world.
The problem is that they now face a difficult run-in. They are still to play:
•   Everton (a) - 21 April
•   Man City (h) - 24 April
•   Chelsea (h) - 28 April
•   Huddersfield (a) - 5 May
•   Cardiff (h) - 12 May

Those next three games will be pivotal, and it will be a huge test to rediscover form against an Everton side who have just beaten Chelsea and Arsenal at home, and then against Manchester City and Chelsea. It looks unlikely but their rivals for the top four face tricky fixtures, too, so Champions League qualification is not quite out of sight.
What needs to happen this summer?

The futures of De Gea and Mata need resolving as they are out of contract this summer, while a replacement for the seemingly soon-to-depart Herrera is another priority. A ball-playing midfielder who provides a significant degree of protection for the defence has been missing of late and United should use this chance to upgrade with somebody who can help get the most out of Pogba, which means settling on a formation that uses a midfield three and Pogba as the most advanced of those players.
In defence, it is likely a centre-back will be targeted, while United could do with a better first-choice right-back than Ashley Young.
Yet again, significant investment is needed at Old Trafford.

Finally, were United were right to appoint Solskjaer?

It had seemed like a masterstroke when Solskjaer came in and turned things around so dramatically, but recent results have seen doubts creep in.
Some feel it would have been wise to wait until the end of the season rather than appoint him on a permanent basis when they did, while others still believe a manager with a proven track record of long-term thinking - such as Mauricio Pochettino - would have been a better choice, even if it was the more expensive option.
It is too early to write Solskjaer off, and many United fans will be grateful for that mid-season run of form after  Mourinho's toxic tenure finally came to an end.
But it does feel as though United did themselves no favours by choosing not to wait until the summer, when his long-term impact and the future of De Gea and Herrera had become a little more clear.
Now they have invested in Solskjaer, they need to stick with him through this rough patch.

Ya. I wouldn't have seen it in the Torygraph but I must concede that's a very good article. Stopped clock I guess!

Maroon Manc

Ole needs more time to work his players and hopefully new players, he's clearly tactically very flexible and hasn't been affraid to try diferent systems some of which clearly hasn't worked although I'd put a lot of that down to our defensive frailties as opposed to Ole's tactical mishaps. I wouldn't fault Ole for the defeats to Barca and we were very unlcuky in the defeats to Arsenal & Wolves, we play well to an extent in both games and could easily have won both of them. The game in the cup against Wolves was the one game we didn't turn up but I'd put a lot of that down to what happened in Paris a few days earlier. We've been a bit unlucky with injuries too, Lingard, Martial, Matic & Herrera all got injured when playing really well, United were going to have to rely on a bit of luck with injuries to keep going.

We are a bit predictable to play against some times but that can be down to personnel too; A proper right winger is a must as we have nobody who looks comfortable at all on that side. Dalot is a brilliant crosser of the ball and and Luke Shaw is capable of offering more going forward, defensively he's been excellent this season and has improved as the season has gone on. Rashford & Martial are still young players who should continue to improve.

I don't see any reason as long as United buy 3 top players this summer that they can't achieve around 90 points next season with Ole in  charge. There's no need for the mass gloom, the squad is no way near as some are making out and is just lacking in a couple of top players in key positions.

TabClear

Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 18, 2019, 01:06:40 PM
Ole needs more time to work his players and hopefully new players, he's clearly tactically very flexible and hasn't been affraid to try diferent systems some of which clearly hasn't worked although I'd put a lot of that down to our defensive frailties as opposed to Ole's tactical mishaps. I wouldn't fault Ole for the defeats to Barca and we were very unlcuky in the defeats to Arsenal & Wolves, we play well to an extent in both games and could easily have won both of them. The game in the cup against Wolves was the one game we didn't turn up but I'd put a lot of that down to what happened in Paris a few days earlier. We've been a bit unlucky with injuries too, Lingard, Martial, Matic & Herrera all got injured when playing really well, United were going to have to rely on a bit of luck with injuries to keep going.

We are a bit predictable to play against some times but that can be down to personnel too; A proper right winger is a must as we have nobody who looks comfortable at all on that side. Dalot is a brilliant crosser of the ball and and Luke Shaw is capable of offering more going forward, defensively he's been excellent this season and has improved as the season has gone on. Rashford & Martial are still young players who should continue to improve.

I don't see any reason as long as United buy 3 top players this summer that they can't achieve around 90 points next season with Ole in  charge. There's no need for the mass gloom, the squad is no way near as some are making out and is just lacking in a couple of top players in key positions.

Thats some call, i think United have only topped 90 points 3 times even with their great teams.

Maroon Manc

Quote from: TabClear on April 18, 2019, 01:23:45 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 18, 2019, 01:06:40 PM
Ole needs more time to work his players and hopefully new players, he's clearly tactically very flexible and hasn't been affraid to try diferent systems some of which clearly hasn't worked although I'd put a lot of that down to our defensive frailties as opposed to Ole's tactical mishaps. I wouldn't fault Ole for the defeats to Barca and we were very unlcuky in the defeats to Arsenal & Wolves, we play well to an extent in both games and could easily have won both of them. The game in the cup against Wolves was the one game we didn't turn up but I'd put a lot of that down to what happened in Paris a few days earlier. We've been a bit unlucky with injuries too, Lingard, Martial, Matic & Herrera all got injured when playing really well, United were going to have to rely on a bit of luck with injuries to keep going.

We are a bit predictable to play against some times but that can be down to personnel too; A proper right winger is a must as we have nobody who looks comfortable at all on that side. Dalot is a brilliant crosser of the ball and and Luke Shaw is capable of offering more going forward, defensively he's been excellent this season and has improved as the season has gone on. Rashford & Martial are still young players who should continue to improve.

I don't see any reason as long as United buy 3 top players this summer that they can't achieve around 90 points next season with Ole in  charge. There's no need for the mass gloom, the squad is no way near as some are making out and is just lacking in a couple of top players in key positions.

Thats some call, i think United have only topped 90 points 3 times even with their great teams.

City & Liverpool aren't as good as the 2 great sides United had in 1999 and 2008 yet are both going to finish well ahead of United's points total. The league isn't as strong.

magpie seanie

Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 18, 2019, 01:38:42 PM
Quote from: TabClear on April 18, 2019, 01:23:45 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 18, 2019, 01:06:40 PM
Ole needs more time to work his players and hopefully new players, he's clearly tactically very flexible and hasn't been affraid to try diferent systems some of which clearly hasn't worked although I'd put a lot of that down to our defensive frailties as opposed to Ole's tactical mishaps. I wouldn't fault Ole for the defeats to Barca and we were very unlcuky in the defeats to Arsenal & Wolves, we play well to an extent in both games and could easily have won both of them. The game in the cup against Wolves was the one game we didn't turn up but I'd put a lot of that down to what happened in Paris a few days earlier. We've been a bit unlucky with injuries too, Lingard, Martial, Matic & Herrera all got injured when playing really well, United were going to have to rely on a bit of luck with injuries to keep going.

We are a bit predictable to play against some times but that can be down to personnel too; A proper right winger is a must as we have nobody who looks comfortable at all on that side. Dalot is a brilliant crosser of the ball and and Luke Shaw is capable of offering more going forward, defensively he's been excellent this season and has improved as the season has gone on. Rashford & Martial are still young players who should continue to improve.

I don't see any reason as long as United buy 3 top players this summer that they can't achieve around 90 points next season with Ole in  charge. There's no need for the mass gloom, the squad is no way near as some are making out and is just lacking in a couple of top players in key positions.

Thats some call, i think United have only topped 90 points 3 times even with their great teams.

City & Liverpool aren't as good as the 2 great sides United had in 1999 and 2008 yet are both going to finish well ahead of United's points total. The league isn't as strong.

United are averaging just below 2 points per game and that's with half the season being a disaster. I agree with MM that the net addition of 3 top class difference makers could push United well above the 2 point average into the 80's and maybe even higher. Getting the right players might be difficult but I feel the current management may be shrewder about what's required than anyone since Ferguson so cautiously optimistic.

Keyser soze

How does Ole's performance since appointed measure against Jose's for this season in terms of points, can't find any up to date stats.

Look-Up!

Quote from: Keyser soze on April 18, 2019, 03:37:48 PM
How does Ole's performance since appointed measure against Jose's for this season in terms of points, can't find any up to date stats.

Jose had 26 points from first 17. Ole is 38 points from last 16.
Klopp had 45 points from first 17. 40 from last 17.
Pep had 44 points from first 17. 39 from last 16.

GetOverTheBar

#44623
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 18, 2019, 01:06:40 PM
Ole needs more time to work his players and hopefully new players, he's clearly tactically very flexible and hasn't been affraid to try diferent systems some of which clearly hasn't worked although I'd put a lot of that down to our defensive frailties as opposed to Ole's tactical mishaps. I wouldn't fault Ole for the defeats to Barca and we were very unlcuky in the defeats to Arsenal & Wolves, we play well to an extent in both games and could easily have won both of them. The game in the cup against Wolves was the one game we didn't turn up but I'd put a lot of that down to what happened in Paris a few days earlier. We've been a bit unlucky with injuries too, Lingard, Martial, Matic & Herrera all got injured when playing really well, United were going to have to rely on a bit of luck with injuries to keep going.

We are a bit predictable to play against some times but that can be down to personnel too; A proper right winger is a must as we have nobody who looks comfortable at all on that side. Dalot is a brilliant crosser of the ball and and Luke Shaw is capable of offering more going forward, defensively he's been excellent this season and has improved as the season has gone on. Rashford & Martial are still young players who should continue to improve.

I don't see any reason as long as United buy 3 top players this summer that they can't achieve around 90 points next season with Ole in  charge. There's no need for the mass gloom, the squad is no way near as some are making out and is just lacking in a couple of top players in key positions.

This can't be a real statement considering the historical context of it. Your talking current squad + your 3 players winning around 25 games next year....

Not happening. Especially if DDG head is away like it's been recently.

Boycey

Without wanting to get sucked into this debate because I think a few new players isn't going to fix United, the current squad, give or take, won 25 games last year and could win up to 24 this year so why couldn't they do similiar next year with 3 new players?