Defo getting easier! >:(
They've been saying this for 20 years
Pah! The Leaving Cert is much harder ;)
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 16, 2007, 04:09:37 PM
Pah! The Leaving Cert is much harder ;)
I'd say it probably is! I see some lad managed SIX grade A's!!! I have no doubt he worked hard and is pretty intelligent but come off it!! SIX??? ???
Out of pure curiosity how many subjects do you do in them A Level exams
Them A Levels are a Joke, only have to do 2 subjects! no wonder the Brits dont know their Geography ;D
Quote from: hardstation on August 16, 2007, 04:27:42 PM
When I was doing my GCSE Additional Maths, my teacher used to give us Additional Maths past papers and Leaving Cert papers. There was no difference in the level of difficulty.
Unless things have changed from then.
I done seven in my Leaving Cert thats a big difference from 3/4...
Not saying one is harder than the other but studying for 7 exams and studying for 3 is a big difference
The difference is for A Levels you get to chose the subjects that you've at least half an interest in.
If you want to do medicine and you've done your leaving cert, you have to do a pre-med year, if you have the right A Levels you don't - that suggests you cover a lot more in A Level science than leaving cert.
Quote from: hardstation on August 16, 2007, 04:33:54 PM
Quote from: Tankie on August 16, 2007, 04:30:04 PM
Them A Levels are a Joke, only have to do 2 subjects! no wonder the Brits dont know their Geography ;D
You can do one if you like.
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 16, 2007, 04:31:34 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 16, 2007, 04:27:42 PM
When I was doing my GCSE Additional Maths, my teacher used to give us Additional Maths past papers and Leaving Cert papers. There was no difference in the level of difficulty.
Unless things have changed from then.
I done seven in my Leaving Cert thats a big difference from 3/4...
Not saying one is harder than the other but studying for 7 exams and studying for 3 is a big difference
Depends how much detail is involved.
I done Honours English,Maths,Physics,French,Tech Drawing,Building Construction quite a lot of detail in that let me tell you
Only Pass subject i done was Irish
I can feel a joke coming from Hardstation!!
My grammer isn't the best...Lucky im not a English teacher!
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 16, 2007, 04:37:50 PM
I done Honours English,Maths,Physics,French,Tech Drawing,Building Construction quite a lot of detail in that let me tell you
Just had a look at the syllabus for Leaving Cert French - correct me if I'm wrong but you didn't even have to study any French literature!
Now in fairness I had a look at the Irish syllabus and they have to do poetry and prose, same as A Level.
I don't think there's much between the two. With A-Levels you only have to study 3 subjects but they are clearly studied to a higher level than in the Leaving. But I really appreciated being able to drop maths and science after GCSE as I was brutal at them. If I had been doing the Leaving where you have to do these subjects I would have done no more near as well as I did in in my A-Levels.
The best part of A Level Irish for me was the pictures in Seán Ó Ríordáin's memorable novels.
There's uproar every year when the results improve, if it went the other way there'd be whinging that the system is failing the childer.
Quote from: bennydorano on August 16, 2007, 06:15:36 PM
There's uproar every year when the results improve, if it went the other way there'd be whinging that the system is failing the childer.
Agree with that benny. So many people are going to uni these days, competition for places is more fierce than ever before. If you want to get into a top course at a top university you're looking at 3 As. As a result A level students are working a hell of a lot harder than in previous years.
Fair play to the wee cub from Newry that got 6 As. On top of that, he was getting radiotherapy for lukmeia.
A Level examination questions are not getting any easier; it's the structure of the courses that helps today's students. Whereas I had to sit two big feckin exams at the end of two years of studying a subject, pupils will often sit 6 smaller exams over the two years, and can repeat these exams ad nauseum throughout the 2 years in order to get the desired result. I wish I had that system in my time, instead of trying to remember everything you'd been taught in the last 20 months.
Secondly teachers are more resource-aware now, making lessons more interesting and tailored to individual pupils. Interactive whiteboards, online pupil participation...all these things enhance the classroom experience for teachers and students. The Internet is a huge advantage for learners now as you can top up what you've been taught in the classroom.
Coursework is another notch in favour of today's pupils. You can earn up to 40% in some subjects before you sit an exam.
Teachers are under more pressure now to perform than ever before with parent scrutiny a much bigger issue than in 1957!
So all-in-all whereas examination questions are no easier than they were 50 years ago, pupils are better equipped now to achieve than ever before.
Your dead right ONeill, I was part of the first year group to do AS Levels and it was a massive advantage. Took the pressure off big time in the final year. When it came to the A Levels you sometimes knew what you were getting save a massive disaster. But remember all pupils take advantage of this so everyone does better and therefore the competition for Uni becomes so fierce.
QuoteI done seven in my Leaving Cert thats a big difference from 3/4...
I did 8 subjects for mine. Lord help me. What a year.
I presume as you do less subjects in the A levels they are done in more detail while in the leaving cert you are examined in a much broader range of subjects.
O'Neill you have a point about the structure making things easier but to argue that the level of difficulty of questions is no different is nonsense. Have three older siblings who went before me and all did additional maths GCSE and maths to A-Level, one of them doing further maths A-Level. I remember when doing my additional maths GCSE and looking at the past papers from my older brother and sister 10 years before and things were considerably more difficult - in fact a lot of it I covered later in A-Level.
In my year in college there were about 20 people got 3 Grade A's and 10 A's at GCSE, in my siblings years figures were less than half that.
Regarding the A-Level-Leaving Cert debate, it is clear that there are more subjects done for the leaving cert but at a SUBSTANTIALLY lower level (at least in the ones I can compare). I did French and Spanish to A-Level and then went to Dublin and the standard of people at college who had studied down south was by and large pretty crap - probably similar to a good GCSE student. If my experience of the way languages is taught down south is anything to go by, then there is no structure whatsoever to the way grammar is taught - the very building blocks of a language!
Quote from: CiKe on August 16, 2007, 08:06:59 PM
O'Neill you have a point about the structure making things easier but to argue that the level of difficulty of questions is no different is nonsense. Have three older siblings who went before me and all did additional maths GCSE and maths to A-Level, one of them doing further maths A-Level. I remember when doing my additional maths GCSE and looking at the past papers from my older brother and sister 10 years before and things were considerably more difficult - in fact a lot of it I covered later in A-Level.
In my year in college there were about 20 people got 3 Grade A's and 10 A's at GCSE, in my siblings years figures were less than half that.
Regarding the A-Level-Leaving Cert debate, it is clear that there are more subjects done for the leaving cert but at a SUBSTANTIALLY lower level (at least in the ones I can compare). I did French and Spanish to A-Level and then went to Dublin and the standard of people at college who had studied down south was by and large pretty crap - probably similar to a good GCSE student. If my experience of the way languages is taught down south is anything to go by, then there is no structure whatsoever to the way grammar is taught - the very building blocks of a language!
I dunno about maths CiKe about i'd agree with you about languages. I only did french to AS Level but my Uni friends who were schooled in the south said that we had a much better grasp at grammar, but i did have a teacher who drilled it into us. i still remember most of it :)
Tis all a loab of crap chaps.
When i did A levels two people out of 100 plus got 3 A's.Now 33% get an A Grade.
The proof that theyre getting easier is clear.
If everyone is now smarter/works harder then why dont they all get firsts at uni?
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on August 16, 2007, 08:22:36 PM
Tis all a loab of crap chaps.
When i did A levels two people out of 100 plus got 3 A's.Now 33% get an A Grade.
The proof that theyre getting easier is clear.
If everyone is now smarter/works harder then why dont they all get firsts at uni?
Universities, especially those that set and mark their own exams mark them much harder than the A Levels are marked. If too many students get firsts then it takes away from the prestige of the course and university. I was once told that a university will only ever give a certain number of firsts regardless of the standard. Therefore getting 3 As at A Level will always be easier than getting a first class honours degree.
Quote from: CiKe on August 16, 2007, 08:06:59 PM
O'Neill you have a point about the structure making things easier but to argue that the level of difficulty of questions is no different is nonsense. Have three older siblings who went before me and all did additional maths GCSE and maths to A-Level, one of them doing further maths A-Level. I remember when doing my additional maths GCSE and looking at the past papers from my older brother and sister 10 years before and things were considerably more difficult - in fact a lot of it I covered later in A-Level.
I wasn't talking about GCSE
f**k me, same oul shite every year. it must knock the bottom out of the youngsters who've sat the exams. anyone who knows anything about education will know the points outlined by oneill are spot on and that the same questions in various wordings have been asked for years. it's just a case of teachers knowing what to expect and preparing their students for it.
My mate teaches Alevels and said the content is maybe only slightly easier than it was years ago. He said its just the structure now makes it easier, because of the AS's, in his words they "get a few rips at it".
From what I hear the consensus is that A-Levels are approx 1.5 times the equivalent leaving cert subject. I'd say they're probably a bit higher than that, since from what I can tell Leaving Cert is essentially rote learning (to such an extent that people have learned off essays prior to going in for certain subjects), whilst A-Levels tend to be more discursive (in my experience).
On the whole it's all a bit irrelevant as I expect most posters on here know, exams such as these are essentially a crude tool for colleges etc to streamline students. The vast majority of knowledge learned is of little of no use in much of our everyday life nor does it help provide a rounded education, imo anyway.
As O'Neill points out, results have to get better each year, teachers have so much more know how in how to beat the system nowadays, that coupled with better resources mean that improvement should be expected.
Finally, how many of you even include them on your CV at this stage? I know I don't as they have no relevance anymore, that pretty much ends after your first job.
O'Neill i was also making the point that a good part of what i covered at A-level my older siblings had done at additional maths GCSE level - ie what they did at A-level was harder again, ie the difficulty level of individual questions is decreasing. The points you illustrate are valid and certainly explain some of the improvement but to say that the dificulty level in some subjects has not decreased is rubbish.
Maybe in order to differentiate to some extent they should have some sort of penalization for repeating like at University finals - fail first time around and pass second and all you get is a pass degree or something like that. With the number of people getting 3 A's these days, this is no longer enough to distinguish between students for the most sought after courses
Having done A Levels this year I can say that some of the exams i sat were probably harder than the past papers I had done! I got 3 A's and 1 B.
Exams are something that have to be passed by whatever means possible. How many of us tried to guess questions, tried to wear lecturers down as to content and photocopy every pass paper going in the library to try and second guess the examiner? Teachers are masters at getting students through exams these days. Some people are exceptional at doing exams but they aren't actually that smart. Employers are copping on to this and are more interested in other things. However in saying that getting 3 As at A Level still requires a fair degree of intelligence :D
Quote from: Derry Devil on August 16, 2007, 09:14:24 PM
Having done A Levels this year I can say that some of the exams i sat were probably harder than the past papers I had done! I got 3 A's and 1 B.
Congrats, don't let these fellas take away from your success ;D
Quote from: inisceithleann on August 16, 2007, 09:18:10 PM
Quote from: Derry Devil on August 16, 2007, 09:14:24 PM
Having done A Levels this year I can say that some of the exams i sat were probably harder than the past papers I had done! I got 3 A's and 1 B.
Congrats, don't let these fellas take away from your success ;D
Thanks ;)
Quote from: CiKe on August 16, 2007, 09:03:42 PM
O'Neill i was also making the point that a good part of what i covered at A-level my older siblings had done at additional maths GCSE level
Erm, and you think that's odd?
There is a much bigger focus on learning rather than teaching now in education and this must also be paying dividends. regarding declining standards I'll quote an old professor of mine "nostalgia and amnesia go together"
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 16, 2007, 04:37:50 PM
I done Honours English,Maths,Physics,French,Tech Drawing,Building Construction quite a lot of detail in that let me tell you
Only Pass subject i done was Irish
LL dont take this the wrong way, but did you do elect straight from school? would all them honours have been a waste for the apprenticeship? Thats if suir even took on apprentices :)
Quote from: ludermor on August 16, 2007, 09:58:24 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 16, 2007, 04:37:50 PM
I done Honours English,Maths,Physics,French,Tech Drawing,Building Construction quite a lot of detail in that let me tell you
Only Pass subject i done was Irish
LL dont take this the wrong way, but did you do elect straight from school? would all them honours have been a waste for the apprenticeship? Thats if suir even took on apprentices :)
Financially it doing the apprenticeship was probably the better decision, and sure they're not wasted - hasn't he got approx 5000 post on this board ;)
Quote from: ludermor on August 16, 2007, 09:58:24 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 16, 2007, 04:37:50 PM
I done Honours English,Maths,Physics,French,Tech Drawing,Building Construction quite a lot of detail in that let me tell you
Only Pass subject i done was Irish
LL dont take this the wrong way, but did you do elect straight from school? would all them honours have been a waste for the apprenticeship? Thats if suir even took on apprentices :)
LL created electricity he's that good :)
only problem was he didnt know we had it in Dublin for a hundred years so he just became a sparks ;D
Of course it's bloody well odd, an additional maths GCSE is not suppose to be the same standard as an A-Level. When I talk about covered, I mean covering for the first time - ie my older siblings were covering it in 5th year when I was seeing some of it in upper 6th.
Usually I wouldn't be the smart arse and most of your comments are generally very good but you're a teacher if I'm not mistaken. If you don't follow this simple line of thought then what hope is there for your students - the exams must be getting easier!
GCSE additional maths introduces students to the mathematics studied in AS and A Level GCE modules.
Quote from: ludermor on August 16, 2007, 09:58:24 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 16, 2007, 04:37:50 PM
I done Honours English,Maths,Physics,French,Tech Drawing,Building Construction quite a lot of detail in that let me tell you
Only Pass subject i done was Irish
LL dont take this the wrong way, but did you do elect straight from school? would all them honours have been a waste for the apprenticeship? Thats if suir even took on apprentices :)
Mmmm another who knows Suir i wish ye would own up to who ye are!!I didn't do my apprentiship with Suir anyways...
Too answer your orginal question though no i don't think they were a bit of a waste ,i would rather be working a Trade than stuck in a office as an accountant or something similar.
Also the Electrical apprenticship is not just learning how to change lightblubs and fixing sockets it involves an awful lot of Engineering and Electronics which includes Maths and Physics it's a lot more complex than you might think
And i now have my own company,and am doing very well at it,So no i don't think it is a waste,I certainly don't think someone who went to Uni and became a lawyer or whatever is any better than me
I know you weren't saying it in your post but it pisses me off sometimes that some people have a attitude that people who take up apprenticships are the ones who were not good enough to go to college.Intelligence comes in different forms in my opinion but because someone goes to college and some take on trades doesn't mean the person that went to college is any more intellegent than the fella who took the apprenticships
TYP, do you think there are handier A Levels than others, or is it simply relative to your interests/ability?
Quote from: Take Your Points on August 17, 2007, 12:01:08 AM
Quote from: ONeill on August 16, 2007, 11:38:07 PM
TYP, do you think there are handier A Levels than others, or is it simply relative to your interests/ability?
There is no doubt that some A levels are easier to get higher grades than others. Vocational A levels will always produce higher grades because of the coursework element, higher the % coursework the higher the grades.
If you look at the distribution of grades by CCEA, it does show that the distribution of grades differs.
The above table is for CCEA exams and shows the cumulative percentage of grades given for each subject. It is surprising to see which subjects are the most difficult to achieve A grades in. Geography is one of the toughest and in Maths 55% of the grades given are A's.
You do need to realise that the subject does dictate the ability of its students. e.g. Maths does attract the best students, although Geography does attract a broad ability range. The table is a rough guide to difficulty.
Makes me a bit more proud of the A i got in Geography :)
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 16, 2007, 10:48:34 PM
I know you weren't saying it in your post but it pisses me off sometimes that some people have a attitude that people who take up apprenticships are the ones who were not good enough to go to college.Intelligence comes in different forms in my opinion but because someone goes to college and some take on trades doesn't mean the person that went to college is any more intellegent than the fella who took the apprenticships
LL didnt mean that at all, i went to college but the 2 younger brothers done trades ( with all my blessings). I was just curious as to you having a good leaving cert and not doing Elect Eng for example, i suppose you were lucky in that you knew what you wanted to do at a young age.
And as they say in suir dont scan me scan
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on August 16, 2007, 08:22:36 PM
Tis all a loab of crap chaps.
When i did A levels two people out of 100 plus got 3 A's.Now 33% get an A Grade.
The proof that theyre getting easier is clear.
If everyone is now smarter/works harder then why dont they all get firsts at uni?
exactly!
Yeah I see Business Studies up there too and as A level subjects go it's fairly easy compared to others but it attracts an extremely 'broad range' of students which probably contributes to its standing on the table.
In relation to the Leaving Cert vs A Level stuff....
When UCAS benchmarked A-Levels against the leaving cert, they found that a Leaving Cert subject averaged out as about two 3rds of an A-level.
I got my results yesterday and was quite happy with BBC considering the amount of time that i put in to studying. I never really got into teh whole rythm and routine of revising and usually a few days before the exams just got stuck into it. My subjects were IT, Technolgy and History. I was quite lucky that the IT was 100% coursework and i knew before the results came that i had done well as i was sitting on a high B from AS.
Technolgy was 50% coursework and 50% exam and i can honestly say that i did absoulutly nothing for the theory paper. I had already done it in January and got an E but decided to repeat because my teacher made me but when i went to resit the exam i just sat at the desk and didnt do it. I knew that my coursework marks would pull my grade up and doing well in the paper wasnt neccessary. I ended up with a C or 416 out of 600 and i kinda regret not doing a bit better in the paper as 420 is a B and one more correct answer may have swung it for me.
History was a different story with 100% of the grade being exam assesed but i still found history relatively easy. We studied 6 modules throughout the 2 years and each of these modules were usually divided in two. For example in the Fascist Italy module it was divided into Mussolini's Foreign and Domestic Policy and when it came to the exam you only answered a question on one of the two. You were meant to study the whole course and then answer whichever question you wanted but we only studied his domestic policy and never went near the Foreign Policy, which meant that we had twice the time to study and half the work to get through. We then sat the exam before moving on to a different topic so as you can imagine it was relatively easy. Even when it came to studying for the exam i found this easy. When you go through the syllibus you realise that there are only certain questions that can be asked and the same questions appear year after year. I studied the patterns of the questions and then wrote out answers for the ones that i thought were going to come up. This was easy as well because i just copied a marks scheme from a previous years exam and therefore knew that my answer would be right. I then learned this off and when it came to the exam i just wrote it out and in effect i was just reciting off what i had learned and usually did not understand it. I may as well have been writing out a wee poem that i had learned.
To be honest i think that the exams are not getting easier as the same questions are still being asked but the structure of the course allows pupils to achieve their maximum potential. The teachers of the courses are also shrewd customers and in effect i feel the pupils have cracked the system. Coursework subjects are also a handy way out because the amount of copying that goes on is unreal with most pupils getting their work from wikipedia.
Quote from: Take Your Points on August 17, 2007, 07:08:35 PM
CAO retaliated by having modular A levels benchmarked against the leaving and changed the points. Points for an A fell from 150 to 120 making it almost impossible to get a place in a premium university in the south. To do medicine from the north you need 4 grade A and then you are chosen by lottery for a limited number of places for northerners.
That decision by CAO was incredibly unfair. When I did A-Levels we weren't usually allowed to do 4 subjects as there wasn't the teaching resources for it so it put paid to many peoples ideas of going south, to Trinity especially. Surely CAO and UCAS have to come to some arrangement over this, we are all Irish citizens after all.