A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

Started by winghalfback, May 27, 2015, 03:16:23 PM

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JPGJOHNNYG

Quote from: Harold Disgracey on December 12, 2018, 09:54:50 AM
Alleged extracurricular activity with an assistant to another assembly member, not a unionist MLA by the way. Heard this from several different sources.

Sure simpson was caught red handed and the rumours about IJP and ELP are rife so whats the problem? or is it because he did it with one of themmuns lol

johnnycool

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on December 12, 2018, 10:05:21 AM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on December 12, 2018, 09:54:50 AM
Alleged extracurricular activity with an assistant to another assembly member, not a unionist MLA by the way. Heard this from several different sources.

Sure simpson was caught red handed and the rumours about IJP and ELP are rife so whats the problem? or is it because he did it with one of themmuns lol

Depends if the assistant was male or female though...


weareros

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 12, 2018, 09:23:31 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 11, 2018, 11:27:57 PM
Heard someone on the radio earlier saying that anyone talking about a border poll should learn the lessons of the Brexit poll - make a decent plan before asking people to vote!
Correct, I have not seen any plan from either SF or SDLP that would get me to vote for a UI, and I consider myself a republican, small r. I'd abstain.

In any UI poll, both of those parties should take a backseat for the following reasons 1) them shouting  from rooftops would alienate the 15% - 20% of soft unionists needed to carry a vote - Mary Lou and co will not be able to help themselves however 2) neither party has really contributed to the factors that has made the Irish economy and culture attractive to Unionists, so it should not be their plan or vision that is on offer

BennyCake

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 12, 2018, 09:23:31 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 11, 2018, 11:27:57 PM
Heard someone on the radio earlier saying that anyone talking about a border poll should learn the lessons of the Brexit poll - make a decent plan before asking people to vote!
Correct, I have not seen any plan from either SF or SDLP that would get me to vote for a UI, and I consider myself a republican, small r. I'd abstain.

Yes agreed. Those rabbiting on about a United ireland are as deluded as those unionists who want to hang onto the union no matter the consequences.

Rois

Quote from: Applesisapples on December 12, 2018, 09:23:31 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 11, 2018, 11:27:57 PM
Heard someone on the radio earlier saying that anyone talking about a border poll should learn the lessons of the Brexit poll - make a decent plan before asking people to vote!
Correct, I have not seen any plan from either SF or SDLP that would get me to vote for a UI, and I consider myself a republican, small r. I'd abstain.
SDLP are not calling for a border poll at this time. I don't think it is a bad idea though for SF to keep mentioning it (despite knowing no one will grant it immediately) as it has the effect of making it sound inevitable.

naka

think it is important for the shinners to keep a referendum on a united ireland at the forefront.
it means the it becomes part of the psyche and an established reality that a referendum will take place eventually.
then we are into the revolving dates around when the next one will happen.
lets lose the first one then start preparation for the second one.
its simply an extension of the long war.

johnnycool

Quote from: weareros on December 12, 2018, 12:32:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 12, 2018, 09:23:31 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 11, 2018, 11:27:57 PM
Heard someone on the radio earlier saying that anyone talking about a border poll should learn the lessons of the Brexit poll - make a decent plan before asking people to vote!
Correct, I have not seen any plan from either SF or SDLP that would get me to vote for a UI, and I consider myself a republican, small r. I'd abstain.

In any UI poll, both of those parties should take a backseat for the following reasons 1) them shouting  from rooftops would alienate the 15% - 20% of soft unionists needed to carry a vote - Mary Lou and co will not be able to help themselves however 2) neither party has really contributed to the factors that has made the Irish economy and culture attractive to Unionists, so it should not be their plan or vision that is on offer

The form of government in a UI needs to be put forward by the Irish Government sitting in the Dail, not the Shinners or whoever.

JPGJOHNNYG

Quote from: johnnycool on December 12, 2018, 11:06:07 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on December 12, 2018, 10:05:21 AM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on December 12, 2018, 09:54:50 AM
Alleged extracurricular activity with an assistant to another assembly member, not a unionist MLA by the way. Heard this from several different sources.

Sure simpson was caught red handed and the rumours about IJP and ELP are rife so whats the problem? or is it because he did it with one of themmuns lol

Depends if the assistant was male or female though...

Yes true for the DUP that would be an issue and I guess if its a bloke from the themmuns then it is double trouble for them. Jeez is there anyone left in the DUP not hiding anything.

BennyCake

SF mentioning a UI at every farts end distracts from what they are elected to do in Stormont. It doesn't help either when they're trying to deal and PowerShare with unionists (not easy as we know).

But SF need Stormont up and running as if they are seen to be running things smoothly with unionists, it's easier to see a UI working as if both can work together at Stormont, why not Dublin?

yellowcard

Quote from: weareros on December 12, 2018, 12:32:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 12, 2018, 09:23:31 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 11, 2018, 11:27:57 PM
Heard someone on the radio earlier saying that anyone talking about a border poll should learn the lessons of the Brexit poll - make a decent plan before asking people to vote!
Correct, I have not seen any plan from either SF or SDLP that would get me to vote for a UI, and I consider myself a republican, small r. I'd abstain.

In any UI poll, both of those parties should take a backseat for the following reasons 1) them shouting  from rooftops would alienate the 15% - 20% of soft unionists needed to carry a vote - Mary Lou and co will not be able to help themselves however 2) neither party has really contributed to the factors that has made the Irish economy and culture attractive to Unionists, so it should not be their plan or vision that is on offer

I think that this is correct. The poll will be won on the votes of the Alliance/ soft unionists. Hard republicans and nationalists will vote for a UI in any case.

If we have learned the lessons of old Unionist triumphalism, it shouldn't be seen as a victory or defeat by either side but rather a coming together of people that will probably take a generation to normalise. I hope that there is not a rush to claim credit for such an eventuality when it does happen, because the reality is that the DUP will have done more to bring it about than either of the main nationalist parties.

BennyCake

Quote from: yellowcard on December 12, 2018, 03:23:31 PM
Quote from: weareros on December 12, 2018, 12:32:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 12, 2018, 09:23:31 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 11, 2018, 11:27:57 PM
Heard someone on the radio earlier saying that anyone talking about a border poll should learn the lessons of the Brexit poll - make a decent plan before asking people to vote!
Correct, I have not seen any plan from either SF or SDLP that would get me to vote for a UI, and I consider myself a republican, small r. I'd abstain.

In any UI poll, both of those parties should take a backseat for the following reasons 1) them shouting  from rooftops would alienate the 15% - 20% of soft unionists needed to carry a vote - Mary Lou and co will not be able to help themselves however 2) neither party has really contributed to the factors that has made the Irish economy and culture attractive to Unionists, so it should not be their plan or vision that is on offer

I think that this is correct. The poll will be won on the votes of the Alliance/ soft unionists. Hard republicans and nationalists will vote for a UI in any case.

If we have learned the lessons of old Unionist triumphalism, it shouldn't be seen as a victory or defeat by either side but rather a coming together of people that will probably take a generation to normalise. I hope that there is not a rush to claim credit for such an eventuality when it does happen, because the reality is that the DUP will have done more to bring it about than either of the main nationalist parties.

Really? Nearly 100 years of partition and this place is billions of light years away from being normal.


Therealdonald

Quote from: michaelg on December 19, 2018, 06:01:08 PM
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/dr-graham-gudgin-a-united-ireland-is-far-from-inevitable-and-here-is-why-37639295.html

You're the scrooge of all things Republican and National michaelg. When it inevitably happens and it will (in your lifetime), can I have your home address to post a hard copy of this link so I can watch you eat it?

michaelg

Quote from: Therealdonald on December 19, 2018, 06:33:14 PM
Quote from: michaelg on December 19, 2018, 06:01:08 PM
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/dr-graham-gudgin-a-united-ireland-is-far-from-inevitable-and-here-is-why-37639295.html

You're the scrooge of all things Republican and National michaelg. When it inevitably happens and it will (in your lifetime), can I have your home address to post a hard copy of this link so I can watch you eat it?
Whatever floats your boat, big lad!

red hander

#2399
Quote from: michaelg on December 19, 2018, 06:01:08 PM
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/dr-graham-gudgin-a-united-ireland-is-far-from-inevitable-and-here-is-why-37639295.html

Gudgin is hardly an independent, non-partisan voice. He's like the wee Dutch boy with his finger in the dyke (ooh err, missus). Basically ignores the impact of Brexit and the DUP's arousal of the nationalist electorate