Eighth Amendment poll

Started by Farrandeelin, May 01, 2018, 03:36:55 PM

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Are you in favour of repealing the 8th amendment?

Yes
47 (21.8%)
Yes but have no vote
73 (33.8%)
No
40 (18.5%)
No but have no vote
36 (16.7%)
Undecided
20 (9.3%)

Total Members Voted: 216

Voting closed: May 24, 2018, 03:36:55 PM

sid waddell

Quote from: gallsman on May 10, 2018, 11:03:48 AM

If your wife was raped and impregnated you'd be down the clinic in no time.
Iceman?

The Iceman

Quote from: gallsman on May 10, 2018, 11:03:48 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on May 10, 2018, 12:19:41 AM
I really hope your significant other doesn't experience the loss of a baby at 12 weeks...or any week.
I don't understand your outlook on this at all - I see no regard for life, no feelings or empathy for the baby and a strong aggressive push to bring elective abortion to Ireland and label it a human right and progress. You'll know in the end....

You are such a pathetic, shit-stirring bellend.

Trying to draw equivalence between losing a child and abortion. Utterly embarrassing.

If your wife was raped and impregnated you'd be down the clinic in no time.
First off you don't need to continue to insult me - you might bump in to me some time and I promise I will humble you.
Second, of course I can draw a comparison with a miscarriage at 12 weeks and an abortion at 12 weeks - its still a child. Have you spoken to anyone who's had an abortion - I have. I haven't met one who doesn't regret it. Do you know any women who have had miscarriages? I do, in my own family, and they mourn those children still.
And we would not be down any clinic - you know nothing about me or my family or what we have been through and are capable of handling.
I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight

trueblue1234

Quote from: longballin on May 10, 2018, 09:29:00 AM
It does seem the NO side have no regard for the physical or mental wellbeing of women. But that is how the Catholic Church traditionally treated women.

This just isn't true. Some understand but also feel that life (And some people believe either rightly or wrongly that a foetus is life) is also important. And therefore it's not a straightforward decision to make. Posts like the above are as unhelpful as anyone in the no camp shouting "murderer". I'll put my hands up and say that I was initially in the no camp. But am beginning to sway towards yes now. But have concerns on that side as well. So I honestly don't think there'll be a decision that I'll be fully happy with. 
Grammar: the difference between knowing your shit

magpie seanie

Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 10, 2018, 02:10:37 PM
Quote from: longballin on May 10, 2018, 09:29:00 AM
It does seem the NO side have no regard for the physical or mental wellbeing of women. But that is how the Catholic Church traditionally treated women.

This just isn't true. Some understand but also feel that life (And some people believe either rightly or wrongly that a foetus is life) is also important. And therefore it's not a straightforward decision to make. Posts like the above are as unhelpful as anyone in the no camp shouting "murderer". I'll put my hands up and say that I was initially in the no camp. But am beginning to sway towards yes now. But have concerns on that side as well. So I honestly don't think there'll be a decision that I'll be fully happy with.

Yes and no doubt you're not happy with the current situation either where women are travelling to England every day, pills are being bought online, women with health complications aren't being properly cared for, victims of rape/incest who become pregnant etc. What's proposed should the 8th amendment be removed is not a perfect solution. I feel though it's the safest and best compromise that should address a lot of concerns but clearly cannot cater for everything.

sid waddell

Quote from: The Iceman on May 10, 2018, 12:33:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 10, 2018, 11:03:48 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on May 10, 2018, 12:19:41 AM
I really hope your significant other doesn't experience the loss of a baby at 12 weeks...or any week.
I don't understand your outlook on this at all - I see no regard for life, no feelings or empathy for the baby and a strong aggressive push to bring elective abortion to Ireland and label it a human right and progress. You'll know in the end....

You are such a pathetic, shit-stirring bellend.

Trying to draw equivalence between losing a child and abortion. Utterly embarrassing.

If your wife was raped and impregnated you'd be down the clinic in no time.
First off you don't need to continue to insult me - you might bump in to me some time and I promise I will humble you.
Second, of course I can draw a comparison with a miscarriage at 12 weeks and an abortion at 12 weeks - its still a child. Have you spoken to anyone who's had an abortion - I have. I haven't met one who doesn't regret it. Do you know any women who have had miscarriages? I do, in my own family, and they mourn those children still.
And we would not be down any clinic - you know nothing about me or my family or what we have been through and are capable of handling.
Any chance you could provide statistics from a reputable source about women's reactions to having an abortion?

If your wife was raped and was made pregnant as a result, and she wanted an abortion, what would you say to her?

thebigfella

Quote from: The Iceman on May 10, 2018, 12:33:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 10, 2018, 11:03:48 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on May 10, 2018, 12:19:41 AM
I really hope your significant other doesn't experience the loss of a baby at 12 weeks...or any week.
I don't understand your outlook on this at all - I see no regard for life, no feelings or empathy for the baby and a strong aggressive push to bring elective abortion to Ireland and label it a human right and progress. You'll know in the end....

You are such a pathetic, shit-stirring bellend.

Trying to draw equivalence between losing a child and abortion. Utterly embarrassing.

If your wife was raped and impregnated you'd be down the clinic in no time.
First off you don't need to continue to insult me - you might bump in to me some time and I promise I will humble you.
Second, of course I can draw a comparison with a miscarriage at 12 weeks and an abortion at 12 weeks - its still a child. Have you spoken to anyone who's had an abortion - I have. I haven't met one who doesn't regret it. Do you know any women who have had miscarriages? I do, in my own family, and they mourn those children still.
And we would not be down any clinic - you know nothing about me or my family or what we have been through and are capable of handling.

So you've met every woman who's had an abortion?  ::)

trueblue1234

Quote from: magpie seanie on May 10, 2018, 02:18:00 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 10, 2018, 02:10:37 PM
Quote from: longballin on May 10, 2018, 09:29:00 AM
It does seem the NO side have no regard for the physical or mental wellbeing of women. But that is how the Catholic Church traditionally treated women.

This just isn't true. Some understand but also feel that life (And some people believe either rightly or wrongly that a foetus is life) is also important. And therefore it's not a straightforward decision to make. Posts like the above are as unhelpful as anyone in the no camp shouting "murderer". I'll put my hands up and say that I was initially in the no camp. But am beginning to sway towards yes now. But have concerns on that side as well. So I honestly don't think there'll be a decision that I'll be fully happy with.

Yes and no doubt you're not happy with the current situation either where women are travelling to England every day, pills are being bought online, women with health complications aren't being properly cared for, victims of rape/incest who become pregnant etc. What's proposed should the 8th amendment be removed is not a perfect solution. I feel though it's the safest and best compromise that should address a lot of concerns but clearly cannot cater for everything.

Exactly. I suppose it's an imperfect world and that and nothing is going to cover all bases. As I said I find myself moving over towards the yes side as per the reasons in your post. But I do take issue with posts like Longballin's who think that everyone in the no side have no concerns for a woman's health. I think that's rarely the case. Most are because they see the taking of a (Potential) life as a travesty. Which, if I'm honest, I struggle with as well. But realise that the alternative is equally horrid. That for me is the reason why I wouldn't actively push either side, I just don't have the conviction of my decision.

Not sure if that makes sense.....
Grammar: the difference between knowing your shit

magpie seanie

Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 10, 2018, 02:51:36 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on May 10, 2018, 02:18:00 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 10, 2018, 02:10:37 PM
Quote from: longballin on May 10, 2018, 09:29:00 AM
It does seem the NO side have no regard for the physical or mental wellbeing of women. But that is how the Catholic Church traditionally treated women.

This just isn't true. Some understand but also feel that life (And some people believe either rightly or wrongly that a foetus is life) is also important. And therefore it's not a straightforward decision to make. Posts like the above are as unhelpful as anyone in the no camp shouting "murderer". I'll put my hands up and say that I was initially in the no camp. But am beginning to sway towards yes now. But have concerns on that side as well. So I honestly don't think there'll be a decision that I'll be fully happy with.

Yes and no doubt you're not happy with the current situation either where women are travelling to England every day, pills are being bought online, women with health complications aren't being properly cared for, victims of rape/incest who become pregnant etc. What's proposed should the 8th amendment be removed is not a perfect solution. I feel though it's the safest and best compromise that should address a lot of concerns but clearly cannot cater for everything.

Exactly. I suppose it's an imperfect world and that and nothing is going to cover all bases. As I said I find myself moving over towards the yes side as per the reasons in your post. But I do take issue with posts like Longballin's who think that everyone in the no side have no concerns for a woman's health. I think that's rarely the case. Most are because they see the taking of a (Potential) life as a travesty. Which, if I'm honest, I struggle with as well. But realise that the alternative is equally horrid. That for me is the reason why I wouldn't actively push either side, I just don't have the conviction of my decision.

Not sure if that makes sense.....

Makes perfect sense and I'm not all that different from you in truth. I just think if we go with removing the 8th and introducing the new proposals I see very few additional negatives (the geographic location of where abortions are carried out is about all I can think of - which is a red herring for me) and a lot of positives for the difficult cases in comparison to the status quo that exists today.

Syferus

Quote from: The Iceman on May 10, 2018, 12:33:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 10, 2018, 11:03:48 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on May 10, 2018, 12:19:41 AM
I really hope your significant other doesn't experience the loss of a baby at 12 weeks...or any week.
I don't understand your outlook on this at all - I see no regard for life, no feelings or empathy for the baby and a strong aggressive push to bring elective abortion to Ireland and label it a human right and progress. You'll know in the end....

You are such a pathetic, shit-stirring bellend.

Trying to draw equivalence between losing a child and abortion. Utterly embarrassing.

If your wife was raped and impregnated you'd be down the clinic in no time.
First off you don't need to continue to insult me - you might bump in to me some time and I promise I will humble you.
Second, of course I can draw a comparison with a miscarriage at 12 weeks and an abortion at 12 weeks - its still a child. Have you spoken to anyone who's had an abortion - I have. I haven't met one who doesn't regret it. Do you know any women who have had miscarriages? I do, in my own family, and they mourn those children still.
And we would not be down any clinic - you know nothing about me or my family or what we have been through and are capable of handling.

You'll humble him? Sounds about the typical No side attitude alright. If my argument doesn't cut mustard I'll just get angry and threaten the other side. Problem solved?

Better get used to abortions in Ireland because it's going to pass.

AZOffaly

To be fair Syf, that attitude is not unique to the no side. I think trueblue articulated it fairly well, and I'd be very similar, except I can't get over my problem with the 12 week elective. That's what is swaying me the way I am.

Syferus

Quote from: AZOffaly on May 10, 2018, 03:39:23 PM
To be fair Syf, that attitude is not unique to the no side. I think trueblue articulated it fairly well, and I'd be very similar, except I can't get over my problem with the 12 week elective. That's what is swaying me the way I am.

I don't think the women on the Yes side are very likely to threaten to humble you, AZ, but maybe they're a lot tougher in Tipp than the ones I know at home or in Dublin.

AZOffaly

Quote from: Syferus on May 10, 2018, 03:41:25 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 10, 2018, 03:39:23 PM
To be fair Syf, that attitude is not unique to the no side. I think trueblue articulated it fairly well, and I'd be very similar, except I can't get over my problem with the 12 week elective. That's what is swaying me the way I am.

I don't think the women on the Yes side are very likely to threaten to humble you, AZ, but maybe they're a lot tougher in Tipp than the ones I know at home or in Dublin.

Well, yes, talking about 'humbling' someone is very UFC alright.

magpie seanie

Quote from: AZOffaly on May 10, 2018, 03:39:23 PM
To be fair Syf, that attitude is not unique to the no side. I think trueblue articulated it fairly well, and I'd be very similar, except I can't get over my problem with the 12 week elective. That's what is swaying me the way I am.

The 12 week elective is necessary to cover the cases of incest or rape (most - there will still be exceptions due mainly to later disclosure/discovery etc). How else would you propose these cases are dealt with? It's simply not possible to handle them any other way.

And it also covers the vast majority of elective cases that are already happening in the UK. You may not like this aspect but they are happening and surely it's more compassionate that a woman is able to have support round her and doesn't have to travel?

Mayo4Sam

Quote from: sid waddell on May 09, 2018, 04:45:02 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 09, 2018, 02:49:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 09, 2018, 12:55:33 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 09, 2018, 12:28:34 AM
We can all start the copy and paste nonsense sid. Except the child within a babies womb have no story to copy snd paste or ever will if it is taken away for no reason.

How can you have proper healthcare for all by taking away  the right to life of the unborn?

A healthy unborn child can have it's life ended with no legal consequences or justification. That is what the majority of abortions are and will be under the proposed legislation.
I'd thank you if you didn't flippantly dismiss the many real stories about the incredible harm the 8th Amendment causes as "nonsense", thanks.

You and every other No supporter has completely avoided dealing with them, because dealing with them would force you to confront the actual reality.

We're talking about real, actual human rights here - the right of women to not suffer grave health consequences because of conservative, patriarchal religious dogma, the right of a vulnerable woman not to have to carry a pregnancy to term against their wishes without risking a long jail sentence.

The nonsense I was taking about was your action of copy and pasting whole articles into this thread not that the actual stories ::)

I have discussed them, multiple times and I have said a better solution needs to be found for many of cases

Yes I am talking about real human rights, the first most basic right is the right to life, all other rights are subsequent to that primary right

I have laid out

Sure it was. Just admit that you don't like people quoting articles from reputable sources and actual real life experiences because both have a habit of destroying your argument.

Here's Article 1 of the UN Declaration on Human Rights:

"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood."

http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

Note the key word "born".

You don't get to impose your own, erroneous definition of human rights, thanks.

The UN also states that Ireland's abortion laws are "cruel and inhumane".

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/13/un-denounces-ireland-abortion-laws-as-cruel-and-inhumane-again

"Cruel and inhumane" are not words that are associated with human rights.

Sid, just a point of information here.
There is a dispute over what born actually means, legally speaking.
Some take it to mean the day in a hospital when you come out of the womb.
However others take it to be at the moment of conception.

These are such valid and divided stances that the state had to stop our court system ruling on the embryo case in 2006.

So ironically you don't get to define birth either.

It really is the key issue for this election
Excuse me for talking while you're trying to interrupt me

AZOffaly

Quote from: magpie seanie on May 10, 2018, 03:49:57 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 10, 2018, 03:39:23 PM
To be fair Syf, that attitude is not unique to the no side. I think trueblue articulated it fairly well, and I'd be very similar, except I can't get over my problem with the 12 week elective. That's what is swaying me the way I am.

The 12 week elective is necessary to cover the cases of incest or rape (most - there will still be exceptions due mainly to later disclosure/discovery etc). How else would you propose these cases are dealt with? It's simply not possible to handle them any other way.

And it also covers the vast majority of elective cases that are already happening in the UK. You may not like this aspect but they are happening and surely it's more compassionate that a woman is able to have support round her and doesn't have to travel?

It's not easy Seanie, I understand that. I absolutely understand why people feel differently to me. But I have to vote with my conscience, and I just can't get past this aspect. I'm not trying to convince anyone to vote No. As long as everyone votes according to their true gut feel on it, then that's democracy, and even if I'm on the wrong side of the result, and I don't like this aspect, I will be happy that at least it was done for the right reasons.