Las Vegas Shooting

[Tony Baloney]

Seems to be a lot of people questioning the accuracy of events e.g. how could a 64 year old man be able to carry and conceal so many weapons, get them up to the 32nd floor of a hotel, hide them from room service / cleaners, set up cameras, then shot himself before he could be questioned etc. etc.

Golf bags. Get porter to bring them up.

if you were a professional pool player you might have a lot of long bags with cues in them, not that suspicious.

The hotel has 3309 hotel rooms and 24 elevators and he was there for a few days beforehand, so it's not as if he was likely John Matrix in Commando pushing a shopping trolley full of automatic weapons. Plenty of time to get the stuff upstairs.

[lurganblue]

The Yanks do love a conspiracy

[whitey]

I was responding to a pretty crazy statistic....read the thread.

That thread had stemmed from another statement about the "average American"  and gun ownership. I live in MA and approx 85% of adults DO NOT own a gun.

The averages are completely skewed by the extremes amd wengave amlotnof extremes in this country. The averages are not the experience of middle America. If you think they are, thats your perogative!

Do you think the DOJ break down the murder stats by race and size of city for the good of their health or do you think they release them in this format because statistics without context are meaningless?

You do know what an average is, don't you Whitey? It is an explicit acknowledgement that there are extremes and an average is used to give an overall picture. So just because Middle America (which is very loosely defined as being where you come from) doesn't experience terrible gun violence, other places in the states do, which means as a citizen of a Republic, you should be concerned about the welfare and conditions of your fellow citizens, all of them having been created equal.

Or you could go the route you seem to want to go, refuting a straw man argument that somehow we all think the USA is a gun ridden fever swamp, and in so doing, defining yourself as different from the black, brown, minority citizens of your Republic.

Fact - the USA overall has a far higher rate of gun violence than other Western democracies

Fact - that rate does not change just because your anecdotal experience means you have not seen gun violence.

Fact - you are the first person to bring race into this, in defence of your own experience, and your employment of stats broken down by race, which are completely irrelevant to an incident where a white man attacked a largely white crowd.

So again, why do we need to hear that is people not like "you or I" in places "we wouldn't walk into" who are committing gun violence, in the aftermath of an atrocity which is the exact opposite of your example?

I think it's important to give context and background to the statistics.....you don't.....that's up to you

I don't work for the DOJ or the FBI...they issue the stats the way they do for a reason. Why do you think that is?


Do you think Irelands murder stats are skewed by the Hutchs and the Kinahans?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/republic-of-ireland-is-deadliest-place-to-live-in-irish-and-british-isles-new-figures-34614775.html

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/exclusive-almost-six-times-more-gun-homicides-here-than-in-england-and-wales-34566358.html


Sounds like a very dangerous place to live.  You should all look into leaving for your own safety

[seafoid]

The US murder rate is 4x the Irish rate. There have been 1500 mass murder events so far this year in the US involving guns and none in Ballyhaunis.

[Gabriel_Hurl]

The US murder rate is 4x the Irish rate. There have been 1500 mass murder events so far this year in the US involving guns and none in Ballyhaunis.

I'm 100% sure that this is 100% incorrect

[HiMucker]

The US murder rate is 4x the Irish rate. There have been 1500 mass murder events so far this year in the US involving guns and none in Ballyhaunis.

I'm 100% sure that this is 100% incorrect

I would say Seafoid has made a mistake.  Probably referencing from this link below.  Its an obscene number regardless.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi7wNuXm9fWAhXKIMAKHZC1BxYQqOcBCCYwAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fus-news%2Fng-interactive%2F2017%2Foct%2F02%2Famerica-mass-shootings-gun-violence&usg=AOvVaw37FDf-k2AcZQsFyEfr0BF8

[seafoid]

The US murder rate is 4x the Irish rate. There have been 1500 mass murder events so far this year in the US involving guns and none in Ballyhaunis.

I'm 100% sure that this is 100% incorrect

I would say Seafoid has made a mistake.  Probably referencing from this link below.  Its an obscene number regardless.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi7wNuXm9fWAhXKIMAKHZC1BxYQqOcBCCYwAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fus-news%2Fng-interactive%2F2017%2Foct%2F02%2Famerica-mass-shootings-gun-violence&usg=AOvVaw37FDf-k2AcZQsFyEfr0BF8

Sorry

It was only 274. 4 or more dead
Around 1500 dead from.them

   
   https://www.ft.com/content/7345d406-a745-11e7-ab55-27219df83c97

   According to the Gun Violence Archive, a US monitoring group, there have been 274 mass shootings — defined as those in which at least four people were killed or injured — this year. More than 11,000 people have been slain by guns in 2017, while just under 3,000 children have been injured or killed.

[seafoid]

Ft

That is the NRA's rule number one: insist that tragedy is no time for politics. Rule number two is to focus on the fixed quantum of human evil — hence Mr Trump's strange biblical riff. It is not guns that kill people. It is bad people who kill people. Rule number three is that good people should thus arm themselves. Whether it is pilots, teachers or concertgoers, innocent Americans must be able to protect themselves from evil.


The NRA were one of Trump's most important backers. 5m NRA members are core Trumpers. Some of them may be mentally ill and want to kill. 274 so far this year

[easytiger95]

I was responding to a pretty crazy statistic....read the thread.

That thread had stemmed from another statement about the "average American"  and gun ownership. I live in MA and approx 85% of adults DO NOT own a gun.

The averages are completely skewed by the extremes amd wengave amlotnof extremes in this country. The averages are not the experience of middle America. If you think they are, thats your perogative!

Do you think the DOJ break down the murder stats by race and size of city for the good of their health or do you think they release them in this format because statistics without context are meaningless?

You do know what an average is, don't you Whitey? It is an explicit acknowledgement that there are extremes and an average is used to give an overall picture. So just because Middle America (which is very loosely defined as being where you come from) doesn't experience terrible gun violence, other places in the states do, which means as a citizen of a Republic, you should be concerned about the welfare and conditions of your fellow citizens, all of them having been created equal.

Or you could go the route you seem to want to go, refuting a straw man argument that somehow we all think the USA is a gun ridden fever swamp, and in so doing, defining yourself as different from the black, brown, minority citizens of your Republic.

Fact - the USA overall has a far higher rate of gun violence than other Western democracies

Fact - that rate does not change just because your anecdotal experience means you have not seen gun violence.

Fact - you are the first person to bring race into this, in defence of your own experience, and your employment of stats broken down by race, which are completely irrelevant to an incident where a white man attacked a largely white crowd.

So again, why do we need to hear that is people not like "you or I" in places "we wouldn't walk into" who are committing gun violence, in the aftermath of an atrocity which is the exact opposite of your example?

I think it's important to give context and background to the statistics.....you don't.....that's up to you

I don't work for the DOJ or the FBI...they issue the stats the way they do for a reason. Why do you think that is?


Do you think Irelands murder stats are skewed by the Hutchs and the Kinahans?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/republic-of-ireland-is-deadliest-place-to-live-in-irish-and-british-isles-new-figures-34614775.html

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/exclusive-almost-six-times-more-gun-homicides-here-than-in-england-and-wales-34566358.html


Sounds like a very dangerous place to live.  You should all look into leaving for your own safety

Not at all - I live about 11kms from the north city centre, so I'm thankfully not dodging bullets. Where I differ from you in Middle America is that I feel empathy for people caught up in the gun violence, and I recognise that they are citizens of this city and this Republic, which is as much theirs as mine, and their inability to do so demeans my citizenship as much as it demeans theirs.

I had the privilege of helping to document an art project taking place this year with contributions from schoolkids all over the country - I got to spend two days down in Sheriff Street in pre-schools and primary schools, and it absolutely broke my heart to see the community solidarity and spirit down there, that was constantly being undermined by gang violence there. They soldiered on despite the physical violence, the mental stress and the bigotry and stereotyping that comes with a Dublin 1 address.

Again, there was absolutely no reason for you, other than race, to bring in those DOJ and FBI stats. This was a crime committed by a white man on a mainly white crowd. You still haven't answered why you felt the need to do this, bar the obvious - which I am doing my best not to label you with.

How about answering the question?

[magpie seanie]

Ft

That is the NRA's rule number one: insist that tragedy is no time for politics. Rule number two is to focus on the fixed quantum of human evil — hence Mr Trump's strange biblical riff. It is not guns that kill people. It is bad people who kill people. Rule number three is that good people should thus arm themselves. Whether it is pilots, teachers or concertgoers, innocent Americans must be able to protect themselves from evil.


The NRA were one of Trump's most important backers. 5m NRA members are core Trumpers. Some of them may be mentally ill and want to kill. 274 so far this year

Didn't Trump reverse some of the gun laws brought in by Obama to stop mentally ill people getting guns? A bit of payback for his backers.

[J70]

Part of the problem with respect to the NRA is that there are even more radical(!) gun organizations out there trying to move in on their ground. If they cede an inch, the whackjobs and the money will just move to someone who will toe the line.

[whitey]

If the Kinahans, Hutches, Dundons, Keanes, Thompsons etc wiped themselves out in a shootout I would crack open a beer to celebrate. 

I asked you a question which for either the second or third time you have refused to answer.

Why do the DOJ and FBI quote the stats they way they do if it's irrelevant?

It's them quoting the statistics ....I'm just pointing it out

[easytiger95]

Answer my question, which I posed first - why do you think it is relevant to talk about gun crime stats broken down by race, and also to make points about gun crime only happening where others, unlike you, live, in the aftermath of an atrocity committed by a white man on a white crowd?

Also, I said nothing about the Kinahans and Hutchs - I spoke about the community being victimised by their crimes.

So, do you have anything to say, besides being deliberately misleading?

[whitey]

Answer my question, which I posed first - why do you think it is relevant to talk about gun crime stats broken down by race, and also to make points about gun crime only happening where others, unlike you, live, in the aftermath of an atrocity committed by a white man on a white crowd?

Also, I said nothing about the Kinahans and Hutchs - I spoke about the community being victimised by their crimes.

So, do you have anything to say, besides being deliberately misleading?

"You feel empathy for people caught up in gun violence". Does your empathy extend to the people shooting up your city?

The stats are the stats and are presented as such....ignore them or discount them if you want....

(http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2012/mar/19/edward-flynn/85-percent-shooting-suspects-and-victims-milwaukee/)

[easytiger95]

Answer the question - why are you using stats based on race when it has no relevance to the atrocity in Las Vegas?
As for whether I feel empathy for people shooting up Dublin, nothing I wrote can have given you that impression. It's kind of pathetic to see you resorting to transparent tricks like that.
Are you going to answer the question?