Westminster Election 12th December 2019

Started by Ambrose, October 29, 2019, 02:24:04 PM

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five points

Quote from: seafoid on November 12, 2019, 06:41:37 PM
Quote from: five points on November 12, 2019, 05:49:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 12, 2019, 05:00:03 PM

Israel runs 2 legal systems and has separate roads for Jews and non Jews.
It's pure apartheid.

At least one dirty lie there and probably two.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/yourview/dispelling-the-myth-of-jews-only-roads-in-the-west-bank-856339.html
Have you ever been to the West Bank?

Jews and Palestinians have separate number plate systems. Jews are subject to Israeli civil law. Palestinians are subject to Israeli military law. Jews have enforceable property rights. Palestinians don't.

The politics are changing now. Sanders opposes the occupation. So do most young people.

You mentioned separate roads. I debunked it in seconds. You could have reseached it before you wrote it but instead you lied. You lose.

smelmoth

#571
Quote from: trailer on November 12, 2019, 03:53:37 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on November 12, 2019, 03:18:17 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on November 12, 2019, 12:52:22 PM
Minimum wage is £8.21 an hour for someone aged 25 and over.

Time for real change

I'm up for helping people but £15ph for this sort of work is not realistic. I run my own business and if the minimum wage was £15ph I'd be out of business pretty quick. Don't forget you have NI contributions and employers tax to pay on top of that.
It's these sort of crazy economics from Labour that scare people who create businesses and jobs.

Talk me through this. On £8.21 in Corbyn's constituency how long would your working week need to be to achieve non poverty levels of accommodation, food, clothing and heat. At this stage I'm not even getting into things like a pint or a tv or a movie?

At £15.00 how would it improve?? What is the propensity to spend by people earning £15.00 per hour.

Particularly interested in the bits of this you describe as crazy?

They might not get £15 it's an opening salvo but £8.21 is obscene

five points

Quote from: smelmoth on November 12, 2019, 06:48:44 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 12, 2019, 03:53:37 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on November 12, 2019, 03:18:17 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on November 12, 2019, 12:52:22 PM
Minimum wage is £8.21 an hour for someone aged 25 and over.

Time for real change

I'm up for helping people but £15ph for this sort of work is not realistic. I run my own business and if the minimum wage was £15ph I'd be out of business pretty quick. Don't forget you have NI contributions and employers tax to pay on top of that.
It's these sort of crazy economics from Labour that scare people who create businesses and jobs.

Talk me through this. On £8.21 in Corbyn's constituency how long would your working week need to be to achieve non poverty levels of accommodation, food, clothing and heat. At this stage I'm not even getting into things like a pint or a tv or a movie?

At £15.00 how would it improve?? What is the propensity to spend by people earning £15.00 per hour.

Particularly interested in the bits of this you describe as crazy?

They might not get £15 it's an opening salvo but £8.21 is obscene

I'd guess that most of the people who work at entry-level grades in your average McDonalds are students or other young people who live at home and don't have to put roofs over their heads.

seafoid

Quote from: five points on November 12, 2019, 06:45:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 12, 2019, 06:41:37 PM
Quote from: five points on November 12, 2019, 05:49:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 12, 2019, 05:00:03 PM

Israel runs 2 legal systems and has separate roads for Jews and non Jews.
It's pure apartheid.

At least one dirty lie there and probably two.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/yourview/dispelling-the-myth-of-jews-only-roads-in-the-west-bank-856339.html
Have you ever been to the West Bank?

Jews and Palestinians have separate number plate systems. Jews are subject to Israeli civil law. Palestinians are subject to Israeli military law. Jews have enforceable property rights. Palestinians don't.

The politics are changing now. Sanders opposes the occupation. So do most young people.

You mentioned separate roads. I debunked it in seconds. You could have reseached it before you wrote it but instead you lied. You lose.
Adam Levick is a Zionist spin merchant. Israelis have no answer to the charge of apartheid so they deny it.

Israel runs checkpoints on Palestinian roads. There are none in the Jewish road system. The article is bollocks.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

five points

Quote from: seafoid on November 12, 2019, 07:25:27 PM

Adam Levick is a Zionist spin merchant. Israelis have no answer to the charge of apartheid so they deny it.

Israel runs checkpoints on Palestinian roads. There are none in the Jewish road system. The article is bollocks.

No checkpoints? I'm going!

smelmoth

Quote from: five points on November 12, 2019, 06:55:42 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on November 12, 2019, 06:48:44 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 12, 2019, 03:53:37 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on November 12, 2019, 03:18:17 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on November 12, 2019, 12:52:22 PM
Minimum wage is £8.21 an hour for someone aged 25 and over.

Time for real change

I'm up for helping people but £15ph for this sort of work is not realistic. I run my own business and if the minimum wage was £15ph I'd be out of business pretty quick. Don't forget you have NI contributions and employers tax to pay on top of that.
It's these sort of crazy economics from Labour that scare people who create businesses and jobs.

Talk me through this. On £8.21 in Corbyn's constituency how long would your working week need to be to achieve non poverty levels of accommodation, food, clothing and heat. At this stage I'm not even getting into things like a pint or a tv or a movie?

At £15.00 how would it improve?? What is the propensity to spend by people earning £15.00 per hour.

Particularly interested in the bits of this you describe as crazy?

They might not get £15 it's an opening salvo but £8.21 is obscene

I'd guess that most of the people who work at entry-level grades in your average McDonalds are students or other young people who live at home and don't have to put roofs over their heads.
So why do people with homes and families and responsibilities and families not work there?

five points

Quote from: smelmoth on November 12, 2019, 08:28:45 PM
So why do people with homes and families and responsibilities and families not work there?

Because it's shit?

smelmoth

Quote from: five points on November 12, 2019, 08:45:50 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on November 12, 2019, 08:28:45 PM
So why do people with homes and families and responsibilities and families not work there?

Because it's shit?

In what way?

Eamonnca1

Quote from: smelmoth on November 12, 2019, 08:28:45 PM

So why do people with homes and families and responsibilities and families not work there?

How do you know they don't?

smelmoth

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 12, 2019, 08:52:51 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on November 12, 2019, 08:28:45 PM

So why do people with homes and families and responsibilities and families not work there?

How do you know they don't?

I never said that they don't. I'm teasing out the point made by others. See the post by 5 points that you deleted in order to quote me

trailer

Quote from: smelmoth on November 12, 2019, 06:48:44 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 12, 2019, 03:53:37 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on November 12, 2019, 03:18:17 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on November 12, 2019, 12:52:22 PM
Minimum wage is £8.21 an hour for someone aged 25 and over.

Time for real change

I'm up for helping people but £15ph for this sort of work is not realistic. I run my own business and if the minimum wage was £15ph I'd be out of business pretty quick. Don't forget you have NI contributions and employers tax to pay on top of that.
It's these sort of crazy economics from Labour that scare people who create businesses and jobs.

Talk me through this. On £8.21 in Corbyn's constituency how long would your working week need to be to achieve non poverty levels of accommodation, food, clothing and heat. At this stage I'm not even getting into things like a pint or a tv or a movie?

At £15.00 how would it improve?? What is the propensity to spend by people earning £15.00 per hour.

Particularly interested in the bits of this you describe as crazy?

They might not get £15 it's an opening salvo but £8.21 is obscene

You see , you see £15 per hour for minimum wage and think that solves all problems everywhere. But how much does a trades person then get an hour? What about other skilled people? It's all relative. It push wages up everywhere, which in turn pushes up costs. Who has to stump up? The consumer. Businesses don't absorb these costs. In real terms, probably no one is better off.
That's why this is crazy economics.

I get that it is difficult to make ends meet on £8.21 ph, but it's a multi faceted solution. Working families have always struggled to make ends meet going right back over this past 100 or 200 years. It's not a new problem and just simply paying people more isn't the answer.

smelmoth

Quote from: trailer on November 12, 2019, 09:29:53 PM

You see , you see £15 per hour for minimum wage and think that solves all problems everywhere

Why are you resorting to lies?
I didn't say this. You have invented it.
It cannot possibly help your argument. It's just a lie. Your lie

Quote from: trailer on November 12, 2019, 09:29:53 PM
But how much does a trades person then get an hour? What about other skilled people? It's all relative.
Wages are relative. I think most people get that

Quote from: trailer on November 12, 2019, 09:29:53 PM

It push wages up everywhere, which in turn pushes up costs.
The educational value of this site grows

Quote from: trailer on November 12, 2019, 09:29:53 PM
Who has to stump up? The consumer. Businesses don't absorb these costs. In real terms, probably no one is better off.

Society already stumps up. Housing allowance?? In work benefits?? Food banks??

Is the market working well enough for you for us to leave it well alone??

Quote from: trailer on November 12, 2019, 09:29:53 PM
That's why this is crazy economics.

I get that it is difficult to make ends meet on £8.21 ph, but it's a multi faceted solution. Working families have always struggled to make ends meet going right back over this past 100 or 200 years. It's not a new problem and just simply paying people more isn't the answer.

I haven't heard any of your multi-faceted solution but I'm willing to listen.

The fact that poor people are poor is no reason to leave them poor.

Again don't pretend that anybody claimed that paying people more was a magic bullet or a single solution . The attack was on Corbyn. Has he not put forward a fully costed package of measures in 2017 and is expected to do the same this weekend? I'm unaware of anyone in Labour who has argued that addressing low wages was anything other than a part of an overall suite of measures

seafoid

Quote from: trailer on November 12, 2019, 09:29:53 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on November 12, 2019, 06:48:44 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 12, 2019, 03:53:37 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on November 12, 2019, 03:18:17 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on November 12, 2019, 12:52:22 PM
Minimum wage is £8.21 an hour for someone aged 25 and over.

Time for real change

I'm up for helping people but £15ph for this sort of work is not realistic. I run my own business and if the minimum wage was £15ph I'd be out of business pretty quick. Don't forget you have NI contributions and employers tax to pay on top of that.
It's these sort of crazy economics from Labour that scare people who create businesses and jobs.

Talk me through this. On £8.21 in Corbyn's constituency how long would your working week need to be to achieve non poverty levels of accommodation, food, clothing and heat. At this stage I'm not even getting into things like a pint or a tv or a movie?

At £15.00 how would it improve?? What is the propensity to spend by people earning £15.00 per hour.

Particularly interested in the bits of this you describe as crazy?

They might not get £15 it's an opening salvo but £8.21 is obscene

You see , you see £15 per hour for minimum wage and think that solves all problems everywhere. But how much does a trades person then get an hour? What about other skilled people? It's all relative. It push wages up everywhere, which in turn pushes up costs. Who has to stump up? The consumer. Businesses don't absorb these costs. In real terms, probably no one is better off.
That's why this is crazy economics.

I get that it is difficult to make ends meet on £8.21 ph, but it's a multi faceted solution. Working families have always struggled to make ends meet going right back over this past 100 or 200 years. It's not a new problem and just simply paying people more isn't the answer.

That's a standard business as usual view of minimum wage. But UK wages post inflation are 15% lower than in 2007. This is not business as usual. Unemployment is very low yet the tax take has not improved. This is very strange. Most of the new jobs are low pay. Plus the UK has a current account deficit. It all builds into a very challenging picture a long way from business as usual.
It's a different model that requires different thinking.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

five points

Quote from: smelmoth on November 12, 2019, 08:47:05 PM
Quote from: five points on November 12, 2019, 08:45:50 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on November 12, 2019, 08:28:45 PM
So why do people with homes and families and responsibilities and families not work there?

Because it's shit?

In what way?

You hardly need me to explain how working in McDonald's is a shit job.

Shit company, shit product, shit atmosphere, shit HR policies.

trailer

Quote from: smelmoth on November 12, 2019, 10:54:50 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 12, 2019, 09:29:53 PM

You see , you see £15 per hour for minimum wage and think that solves all problems everywhere

Why are you resorting to lies?
I didn't say this. You have invented it.
It cannot possibly help your argument. It's just a lie. Your lie

Quote from: trailer on November 12, 2019, 09:29:53 PM
But how much does a trades person then get an hour? What about other skilled people? It's all relative.
Wages are relative. I think most people get that

Quote from: trailer on November 12, 2019, 09:29:53 PM

It push wages up everywhere, which in turn pushes up costs.
The educational value of this site grows

Quote from: trailer on November 12, 2019, 09:29:53 PM
Who has to stump up? The consumer. Businesses don't absorb these costs. In real terms, probably no one is better off.

Society already stumps up. Housing allowance?? In work benefits?? Food banks??

Is the market working well enough for you for us to leave it well alone??

Quote from: trailer on November 12, 2019, 09:29:53 PM
That's why this is crazy economics.

I get that it is difficult to make ends meet on £8.21 ph, but it's a multi faceted solution. Working families have always struggled to make ends meet going right back over this past 100 or 200 years. It's not a new problem and just simply paying people more isn't the answer.

I haven't heard any of your multi-faceted solution but I'm willing to listen.

The fact that poor people are poor is no reason to leave them poor.

Again don't pretend that anybody claimed that paying people more was a magic bullet or a single solution . The attack was on Corbyn. Has he not put forward a fully costed package of measures in 2017 and is expected to do the same this weekend? I'm unaware of anyone in Labour who has argued that addressing low wages was anything other than a part of an overall suite of measures

I tried to have a grown up discussion with you, but you've resorted to being a cheeky cnut.