Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football

Started by APM, October 02, 2018, 04:43:21 PM

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manfromdelmonte


Esmarelda

Quote from: Rossfan on December 01, 2018, 11:48:17 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 30, 2018, 11:08:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 30, 2018, 10:52:02 PM
Read the first two paragraphs again. Think of football and tbink of hurling and why we are having exciting hurling and bite fests in football. Then like me you might think aidan is talking shite. Yes people do want high fielding and man to man contests in my opinion.

Of course we do! .....unless we ban the hand pass completely!
Ah sure we'd only have FOOTball then and seemingly that can't be allowed to hspoen
Handball, rubby,  hurley stuff, mayowestros. Give it a rest.

Rossfan

Another lúlá with a humour by pass (hazard a guess from 6 Cos)
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack

This is an excellent initiative by the GAA.

Anyone who wants to watch the current game permeated by 75% hand-passes should sign up for Olympic Handball.

We have to try something . The only people against the current rules are

1- Ulster GAA ( they are typically against anything anyway)
2- Inter-county managers of crap team who can pack defences and don't have any players capable of kicking the ball accurately
3- GPA- Never happy about anything unless they instigate the change
4- Sadists

If this doesn't work we need to try something else. Because the current game is only shite to watch

Eamonnca1

The etymology of "football" has nothing to do with using your foot to kick a ball. It's descended from games that were played by working people "on foot" as opposed to games that were played by nobles on horseback. There are about seven versions of games called football and only one of them predominantly uses the foot to deliver the ball. There's not a whole lot of kicking in Rugby football or American football.

A commonly-held myth about the origin of a word is a strange criterion to be using for designing the rules of a sport. If we were all speaking Irish and referring to the game as "Peile" I doubt if we'd be having this discussion.

In any case I don't see what people have against the handpass. As long as there's a crisp striking action it looks just fine and keeps the game moving. Why do people compare it to Basketball or Handball as if that's a pejorative? Are those sports inferior? Are they boring to watch?

Eamonnca1

Quote from: From the Bunker on November 30, 2018, 11:08:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 30, 2018, 10:52:02 PM
Read the first two paragraphs again. Think of football and tbink of hurling and why we are having exciting hurling and bite fests in football. Then like me you might think aidan is talking shite. Yes people do want high fielding and man to man contests in my opinion.

Of course we do! But them days are gone! And no amount of rules are going to make this happen unless we ban the hand pass completely!

Award the mark from a kickout, that'd bring back high fielding.

Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 06, 2018, 11:01:28 PM
The etymology of "football" has nothing to do with using your foot to kick a ball. It's descended from games that were played by working people "on foot" as opposed to games that were played by nobles on horseback. There are about seven versions of games called football and only one of them predominantly uses the foot to deliver the ball. There's not a whole lot of kicking in Rugby football or American football.

A commonly-held myth about the origin of a word is a strange criterion to be using for designing the rules of a sport. If we were all speaking Irish and referring to the game as "Peile" I doubt if we'd be having this discussion.

In any case I don't see what people have against the handpass. As long as there's a crisp striking action it looks just fine and keeps the game moving. Why do people compare it to Basketball or Handball as if that's a pejorative? Are those sports inferior? Are they boring to watch?

Because Gaelic Football was founded on the transferring of the ball with the foot.

Handball was founded on the transfer of the ball by hand.

The hand-pass in it's current guise has allowed dreadful county teams and equally poor club sides to somehow call themselves football teams by getting  a fitness level , a system , a tackle count and good hand-passing skills. Thus ignoring the fact that neither there club nor their county coaches were ever able to teach their players the basic skill of kicking the ball accurately

I don't want to watch teams like Carlow for example playing Gaelic Football and masquerading themselves as a semi good team playing one forward up front even against teams of their own level like Laois.

How is that what the game was ever meant to be? 75% hand-passing at inter county level was never what the game was envisaged to be .And at club level watching the sort of "Gaelic Football" the Derry championship produced this year wouldn't pass as entertainment even to the parents of the club sides involved.

The game is in crisis. Not every team wants to play like Crossmaglen or Dublin.

But the rules should favour the sides that want to score

Not the other way around.

manfromdelmonte

Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 07, 2018, 12:23:54 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 06, 2018, 11:01:28 PM
The etymology of "football" has nothing to do with using your foot to kick a ball. It's descended from games that were played by working people "on foot" as opposed to games that were played by nobles on horseback. There are about seven versions of games called football and only one of them predominantly uses the foot to deliver the ball. There's not a whole lot of kicking in Rugby football or American football.

A commonly-held myth about the origin of a word is a strange criterion to be using for designing the rules of a sport. If we were all speaking Irish and referring to the game as "Peile" I doubt if we'd be having this discussion.

In any case I don't see what people have against the handpass. As long as there's a crisp striking action it looks just fine and keeps the game moving. Why do people compare it to Basketball or Handball as if that's a pejorative? Are those sports inferior? Are they boring to watch?

Because Gaelic Football was founded on the transferring of the ball with the foot.

Handball was founded on the transfer of the ball by hand.

The hand-pass in it's current guise has allowed dreadful county teams and equally poor club sides to somehow call themselves football teams by getting  a fitness level , a system , a tackle count and good hand-passing skills. Thus ignoring the fact that neither there club nor their county coaches were ever able to teach their players the basic skill of kicking the ball accurately

I don't want to watch teams like Carlow for example playing Gaelic Football and masquerading themselves as a semi good team playing one forward up front even against teams of their own level like Laois.

How is that what the game was ever meant to be? 75% hand-passing at inter county level was never what the game was envisaged to be .And at club level watching the sort of "Gaelic Football" the Derry championship produced this year wouldn't pass as entertainment even to the parents of the club sides involved.

The game is in crisis. Not every team wants to play like Crossmaglen or Dublin.

But the rules should favour the sides that want to score

Not the other way around.
How many trophies have Carlow won with their football/handball style?

johnnycool


Itchy

I have to say, while I initially thought the rules were stupid I have changed my tune a bit. Firstly the game is in crisis. It is horrible to watch in 90% of games. The defensive handpassing muck is being transferred from county to every club in the country. My big issue is that like it or not we are in competition for the hearts and minds of kids. Soccer is all razzmatazz of the premier league which is often entertaining. Rugby that our kids see is exciting stuff with Ireland winning big friendlies against big teams. Football is turgid horrible stuff at the moment in most counties. Also, I think our creative skillful players would rather be at home milking the cows rather than play in these boring systems that are being rolled out by coaches.

So we have to try something and we have every right to try something.

The handpass rule is an interesting one. I was thinking about what would I do if I were a coach. Well for one I know that a close in kick pass is not as accurate as a close in hand pass so I would personally push up an extra player or two and try and turn teams over higher up the pitch. The net effect of this would be to leave space in my defence so if a long ball did get out of the opponents defence, there would be a good chance for my opponent to get a score. I can see this rule helping to make football a better spectacle. It may need tweaking but why not try it.

What would sicken a mans hole is to listen to all these people right out objecting to it, as if football is a great sport altogether and we should leave as is. That is real madness.

joemamas

Quote from: Itchy on December 07, 2018, 02:18:38 PM
I have to say, while I initially thought the rules were stupid I have changed my tune a bit. Firstly the game is in crisis. It is horrible to watch in 90% of games. The defensive handpassing muck is being transferred from county to every club in the country. My big issue is that like it or not we are in competition for the hearts and minds of kids. Soccer is all razzmatazz of the premier league which is often entertaining. Rugby that our kids see is exciting stuff with Ireland winning big friendlies against big teams. Football is turgid horrible stuff at the moment in most counties. Also, I think our creative skillful players would rather be at home milking the cows rather than play in these boring systems that are being rolled out by coaches.

So we have to try something and we have every right to try something.

The handpass rule is an interesting one. I was thinking about what would I do if I were a coach. Well for one I know that a close in kick pass is not as accurate as a close in hand pass so I would personally push up an extra player or two and try and turn teams over higher up the pitch. The net effect of this would be to leave space in my defence so if a long ball did get out of the opponents defence, there would be a good chance for my opponent to get a score. I can see this rule helping to make football a better spectacle. It may need tweaking but why not try it.

What would sicken a mans hole is to listen to all these people right out objecting to it, as if football is a great sport altogether and we should leave as is. That is real madness.

Agree 100% on all your points, and this is coming from someone who ten years ago would get enjoyment out of watching a random game of Gaelic football, over last five years, I truly have gotten so frustrated watching this bullshit hand passing spectacle where players are programmed not to kick the ball, that my personal viewing of gaelic games has dropped off measurably.

lets see how the proposed changes work, cannot believe the negativity before they are even tried.
one thing it hopefully will do is get rid of the "chancer" managers, who sole strategy if to keep possession at all costs, and get a few results to justify their expenses.

DuffleKing


Is it not apparent to everyone that none of these proposals - least of all the handpass restriction - are going to discourage packing defences? Quite the opposite.

tippabu

Quote from: DuffleKing on December 10, 2018, 12:22:26 PM

Is it not apparent to everyone that none of these proposals - least of all the handpass restriction - are going to discourage packing defences? Quite the opposite.

It's crazy, I can confirm I'm not from Ulster, a saddist, manager or whoever else is against it apparently. It's funny to see some of these sweeping statements when it's clear no thought to the concequesnces of these. I've put out there multiple times in detail why I think these won't work so won't again. Like you I feel this will only encourage and reward the mass defence mentality and tactic. One of the worst things though, this is being trialed in the league and we've no idea how it will go, league is too important to try these out in.

If these turn out to be a huge success and we get great games I will be the 1st to hold my hands up and say I was wrong

Rossfan

If the first response to anything is "we'll pack our defences".....
How the Hell are we ever to change that mindset?
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Jell 0 Biafra

Quote from: Rossfan on December 10, 2018, 03:12:42 PM
If the first response to anything is "we'll pack our defences".....
How the Hell are we ever to change that mindset?

I don't think there's anything wrong with packing defences, but if we want that to stop, then surely a rule that disallows that, whatever it might look like, is the starting point?