American Sports Thread

[stringbean]

Seanie, if I were a gambling man, I'd probably still bet on GSW.

But I do have to quibble with your notion of greatness.  In my view, there are plenty of great teams that have won nothing.  In your view, I'm sure, then they were not great.  But to define greatness solely on championships won is to fall prey to media hype and a narrow definition of greatness.

In 1995, the Cleveland Indians finished the season with a record of 100-44 and won their division by 30 games. In the playoffs they swept the Red Sox and went to the World Series (hate that term) against the Atlanta Braves. They lost the series in six, losing Game 1 2-1 and Game 6 1-0.  They just didn't hit in those two games, even though their lineup included Manny Ramirez, Albert Belle and Kenny Lofton.  They were still a great team.  It's just that on those two particular days, Atlanta was better.

On a more mundane level, I used to coach a high school quiz team.  In the state competition (164 teams, I think), we reached the final.  We had a great team, and we squared off against another great team, but with nine questions left we were losing by eight.  Luckily, my whiz kid went nuts and answered all nine questions.  We lifted the state title and in the annals of Ohio state quiz greatness, the other team vanished into oblivion. But, believe me, they were a great team, as good as we were, and on another day . . . .

We were a great team, but up to that point had won no championships, so did we suddenly become great simply because we won the title.  Not in my view.

Golden State is a great team, not yet in the realm of the Bulls, Celtics or Lakers of old, but great nonetheless.

Oraisteach

A argument well made but can't agree that a great team doesn't necessarily need to win a championship - surely this is the benchmark for measuring a team's greatness. Whilst I would think you can't judge a great player on championships won, surely the way to measure a great team is by what it means.

Think of the great sports teams in history - Kerry in the 70s, Liverpool in the 80s, United in the 90s, the pats, the Bulls - what made these teams great was the championships they won!

[Oraisteach]

Muck, I wouldn't be despondent yet.  As Syf said, it's all about Game 4.  If the Cavs pull it off, then it's time to find straws to clutch at, but if the Dubs win, I think they're home and dried. 

String, the teams you list are undoubtedly their sports' greats, but sometimes great teams are camouflaged in the shadow of the GREATS.

In a different sense, GSW is a great team, perhaps not of the calibre of the teams you list, but great nevertheless.  Their performance this year, particularly in the tough Western Conference, was undeniably great, so I guess greatness is a relative term.  A team can be great in the history of a sport, but greatness can be achieved within a season.

Hobbled as they are, there is a Cinderella greatness about the Cavs too, but only if they pull off the seemingly impossible.  But if they do, I wonder how much time will be spent debating whether or not LBJ is the greatest ever, and how little will be spent on the side players who played out of their skins with the never-say-die grit that bc talks about.

[Jell 0 Biafra]

Why do yiz  all keep referring to GS as "the dubs"?

[The Iceman]

I would hazard a guess - the Warriors. The W's = the dubs? dub-ya's as the yanks would pronounce it?

[Muck Savage]

I would hazard a guess - the Warriors. The W's = the dubs? dub-ya's as the yanks would pronounce it?

Correct

Oraisteach - I'm not too despondent yet as I thought there was a glimmer last night in the 4th quarter. Lee is a smart player and will make better decisions than Ezeli and showed a lot more heart. Curry began to get in a groove and Igi played well. I do believe that the need to win tomorrow and the way to do this is being aggressive in the 1st.

A stat shown last night that the winner of game 3 in a 1-1 situation going into it won 85% of the series outright.

[Jell 0 Biafra]

I would hazard a guess - the Warriors. The W's = the dubs? dub-ya's as the yanks would pronounce it?

Cheers, Iceman; makes sense now.   Though I haven't heard anyone call them that over here--only on this board.

[gawa316]

I would hazard a guess - the Warriors. The W's = the dubs? dub-ya's as the yanks would pronounce it?

Cheers, Iceman; makes sense now.   Though I haven't heard anyone call them that over here--only on this board.

Iceman is right. Heard them called that a load of times over here.

[magpie seanie]

Seanie, if I were a gambling man, I'd probably still bet on GSW.

But I do have to quibble with your notion of greatness.  In my view, there are plenty of great teams that have won nothing.  In your view, I'm sure, then they were not great.  But to define greatness solely on championships won is to fall prey to media hype and a narrow definition of greatness.

In 1995, the Cleveland Indians finished the season with a record of 100-44 and won their division by 30 games. In the playoffs they swept the Red Sox and went to the World Series (hate that term) against the Atlanta Braves. They lost the series in six, losing Game 1 2-1 and Game 6 1-0.  They just didn't hit in those two games, even though their lineup included Manny Ramirez, Albert Belle and Kenny Lofton.  They were still a great team.  It's just that on those two particular days, Atlanta was better.

On a more mundane level, I used to coach a high school quiz team.  In the state competition (164 teams, I think), we reached the final.  We had a great team, and we squared off against another great team, but with nine questions left we were losing by eight.  Luckily, my whiz kid went nuts and answered all nine questions.  We lifted the state title and in the annals of Ohio state quiz greatness, the other team vanished into oblivion. But, believe me, they were a great team, as good as we were, and on another day . . . .

We were a great team, but up to that point had won no championships, so did we suddenly become great simply because we won the title.  Not in my view.

Golden State is a great team, not yet in the realm of the Bulls, Celtics or Lakers of old, but great nonetheless.

I take all your points but I just think "great" is a term that is used a little too lightly. Regards GSW (or any team) I think a good deal more than one superb regular season should be the bar for greatness.

[stew]

GSW are a great team, look at what they accomplished in the regular season, they have beaten all before them in the playoffs and are going to be a dynasty in the years ahead, they are young, hungry and are still learning, they are the deepest team in the NBA by far and to me they have come across the greatest athlete the NBA has ever seen in LBJ, that cat is doing the work of two men and is outcoaching the rookie and NBA legend Steve Kerr.

GSW have exactly zero rings between them it has shown in this series, LBJ knows how to win championships and I have never seen a player exert such enormous influence over a series than LeBron has in this one.

MJ had Kerr, Pippen and Rodman, not to mention Horace Grant at times, LBJ has a cast of cast offs, of players not even drafted or drafted late, he has lost two, count em two All Stars and yet here he sits!

One last thing, the current MVP needs to seriously bulk up, he is getting throttled in the trenches and if this series has shown us anything it is that LBJ is by far, by far mind you, the most valuable player on the planet and he is also light years ahead of young Curry when and where it matters!

[AZOffaly]

You're some man for the hyperbole Stew I don't see how a team that hasn't won anything yet, but might do in the future, can be called great now. Potentially great, maybe. Maybe they'll go on to win this series and make a better case for great.

If you don't win anything, you need to be close to winning for several years before you are 'great' in my view. Like that Buffalo Bills team could maybe be called a great team, even if they never sealed the deal, because they continued to be in the Superbowl year after year. If they had played well for one year, and disappeared, they'd not be in any discussion of a 'great' team.

[brokencrossbar1]

You're some man for the hyperbole Stew I don't see how a team that hasn't won anything yet, but might do in the future, can be called great now. Potentially great, maybe. Maybe they'll go on to win this series and make a better case for great.

If you don't win anything, you need to be close to winning for several years before you are 'great' in my view. Like that Buffalo Bills team could maybe be called a great team, even if they never sealed the deal, because they continued to be in the Superbowl year after year. If they had played well for one year, and disappeared, they'd not be in any discussion of a 'great' team.

Totally agree.  I would suggest that it would be better to say that GSW have had a great season and have been great this year in their performances but greatness is created through consistency and repeated success. 

[muppet]

You're some man for the hyperbole Stew I don't see how a team that hasn't won anything yet, but might do in the future, can be called great now. Potentially great, maybe. Maybe they'll go on to win this series and make a better case for great.

If you don't win anything, you need to be close to winning for several years before you are 'great' in my view. Like that Buffalo Bills team could maybe be called a great team, even if they never sealed the deal, because they continued to be in the Superbowl year after year. If they had played well for one year, and disappeared, they'd not be in any discussion of a 'great' team.

Totally agree.  I would suggest that it would be better to say that GSW have had a great season and have been great this year in their performances but greatness is created through consistency and repeated success.

If Dunphy, Brolly & Hook have taught us anything, it is that greatness is in the eye of the begrudger.

[magpie seanie]

GSW are a great team, look at what they accomplished in the regular season, they have beaten all before them in the playoffs and are going to be a dynasty in the years ahead, they are young, hungry and are still learning, they are the deepest team in the NBA by far and to me they have come across the greatest athlete the NBA has ever seen in LBJ, that cat is doing the work of two men and is outcoaching the rookie and NBA legend Steve Kerr.

GSW have exactly zero rings between them it has shown in this series, LBJ knows how to win championships and I have never seen a player exert such enormous influence over a series than LeBron has in this one.

MJ had Kerr, Pippen and Rodman, not to mention Horace Grant at times, LBJ has a cast of cast offs, of players not even drafted or drafted late, he has lost two, count em two All Stars and yet here he sits!

One last thing, the current MVP needs to seriously bulk up, he is getting throttled in the trenches and if this series has shown us anything it is that LBJ is by far, by far mind you, the most valuable player on the planet and he is also light years ahead of young Curry when and where it matters!

Sorry - I can't let that go unchallenged. Who had LeBron with him in his (2) championships that he has won to date? Hardly a rag tag bunch in Miami was there (and he managed to lose two finals with that very strong support cast)? Of the players you mentioned that played with MJ only one (Pippen) played with Jordan in his 6 championship wins, the most any other did was 3. LeBron is absolutely playing lights out in these playoffs, a great player at the top of his powers, so just enjoy it.

I still think Jordan is/was the greatest but LeBron is magnificent also.

[Oraisteach]

Just the kind of game I feared it would be, and we looked knackered.  Advantage Golden State.

[gawa316]

Just the kind of game I feared it would be, and we looked knackered.  Advantage Golden State.

And that's just the kind of game I expected from day one. Splash Bros quiet enough but Green and Iggy really stepped it up. Lee has made a difference as well.

LBJ took some fall and at the time I thought he was doing his iDisk but the gash on his head was pretty severe.