American Sports Thread

[brokencrossbar1]

Wow, Cavs beat Bulls at the buzzer.  Teams tied 2-2.  Brutally physical tussle.

Great game and an unreal finish. James showed unreal ability with that final shot. BC junior was gutted as he's a Bulls fan, reckons he could be the next Noah, he has the beard and is working on the hair!!!

[gallsman]

Wow, Cavs beat Bulls at the buzzer.  Teams tied 2-2.  Brutally physical tussle.

Was watching! Lebron won, lost and then won it for them again in the 4th. Some shot with 0.8 in the clock and having committed the offensive foul that let Chicago level it up.

[Oraisteach]

BC1, after that Noah remark, I have an entirely new view of your appearance.  So, now the Walking Dead return to Cleveland, and if Pasol can play, that's huge for Chicago.  It stinks to see Kyrie Irving hobbling around with no burst of speed. 

[brokencrossbar1]

BC1, after that Noah remark, I have an entirely new view of your appearance.  So, now the Walking Dead return to Cleveland, and if Pasol can play, that's huge for Chicago.  It stinks to see Kyrie Irving hobbling around with no burst of speed.

I had the Noah look the odd time back in the good old days, just not in public!! 

Having Pau back would be huge for Bulls as he is key to their game plan. Kyrie really should not have played, he looked a busted flush.

[Minder]

Brady suspended for 4 games

Pats lose 1st round (2016) & 4th round (2017) draft picks

$1m fine

NFL making it up as they go along

[David McKeown]

Shows you what I know. As I said having read the report from a legal standpoint I'm surprised they went ahead with a suspension of Brady. I'd be very interested to see if he/ the Patriots appeal.

[magpie seanie]

Good enough for them. All they have achieved in the recent era is badly tainted.

[cadhlancian]

Badly tainted my hole Seany. You can't look at anything objectively ever, it's only ever based on your hatred of said player/ team. You hate the Pats/ Brady, the Packers/Rodgers. Throw Liverpool/Arsenal / City and Chelsea  into that as well....
Tainted my hole....

[magpie seanie]

Badly tainted my hole Seany. You can't look at anything objectively ever, it's only ever based on your hatred of said player/ team. You hate the Pats/ Brady, the Packers/Rodgers. Throw Liverpool/Arsenal / City and Chelsea  into that as well....
Tainted my hole....

I hope you're ready with the personal attacks and accusations for the hordes of people who agree with my viewpoint.

Still have butt ache over Aaron Rodger...jeez.

[AZOffaly]

I don't think what they've achieved is tainted by this, but throw in the Spygate as well and you at least have an unsavoury element to the way they go about their business.

What they have done is phenomonal, and they don't need to be letting air out of footballs, or spying on the New York F**king Jets. Belichik has grown an empire there, in fairness to him, and Brady is his totem. For Belichik and Brady to be caught cheating in two separate incidents is disappointing to say the least.

*However* the NFL are absolutely making things up as they go, and are a complete joke. Goodell has been good for the league in a lot of ways, but his approach to discipline and penalties is ridiculous. This is far too big for what the offence actually was, and removing a draft pick is in many ways worse than missing Brady for 4 games. What precedence was used for this? I can see the appeal reducing it, although the appeals process is flawed in the NFL as Goodell hears the appeals, essentially, as well. I know the process has changed slightly recently, but I don't think Goodell will be far away from any decision.

It is interesting what becomes the norm though, and how outraged people get. They are up in arms over this, and yet how many players in the league are currently playing despite having PEDs discovered in their bodies? How many served pathetic suspensions? And yet bulked up players must be the single most dangerous aspect to another player's safety, and yet because it is now sort of accepted, this deflate gate thing is getting more air time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of the Pat, but I admire what they've done in the free agent era. It's incredible. I think deflating balls was stupid, sly and unnecessary and is probably a bit of glimpse into their mentality and ethical compass, but does it taint all their achievements? Not at all in my view.

[wherefromreferee?]

I don't think what they've achieved is tainted by this, but throw in the Spygate as well and you at least have an unsavoury element to the way they go about their business.

What they have done is phenomonal, and they don't need to be letting air out of footballs, or spying on the New York F**king Jets. Belichik has grown an empire there, in fairness to him, and Brady is his totem. For Belichik and Brady to be caught cheating in two separate incidents is disappointing to say the least.

*However* the NFL are absolutely making things up as they go, and are a complete joke. Goodell has been good for the league in a lot of ways, but his approach to discipline and penalties is ridiculous. This is far too big for what the offence actually was, and removing a draft pick is in many ways worse than missing Brady for 4 games. What precedence was used for this? I can see the appeal reducing it, although the appeals process is flawed in the NFL as Goodell hears the appeals, essentially, as well. I know the process has changed slightly recently, but I don't think Goodell will be far away from any decision.

It is interesting what becomes the norm though, and how outraged people get. They are up in arms over this, and yet how many players in the league are currently playing despite having PEDs discovered in their bodies? How many served pathetic suspensions? And yet bulked up players must be the single most dangerous aspect to another player's safety, and yet because it is now sort of accepted, this deflate gate thing is getting more air time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of the Pat, but I admire what they've done in the free agent era. It's incredible. I think deflating balls was stupid, sly and unnecessary and is probably a bit of glimpse into their mentality and ethical compass, but does it taint all their achievements? Not at all in my view.

Fair post, but this did make me smile - intentional?

[magpie seanie]

I don't think what they've achieved is tainted by this, but throw in the Spygate as well and you at least have an unsavoury element to the way they go about their business.

What they have done is phenomonal, and they don't need to be letting air out of footballs, or spying on the New York F**king Jets. Belichik has grown an empire there, in fairness to him, and Brady is his totem. For Belichik and Brady to be caught cheating in two separate incidents is disappointing to say the least.

*However* the NFL are absolutely making things up as they go, and are a complete joke. Goodell has been good for the league in a lot of ways, but his approach to discipline and penalties is ridiculous. This is far too big for what the offence actually was, and removing a draft pick is in many ways worse than missing Brady for 4 games. What precedence was used for this? I can see the appeal reducing it, although the appeals process is flawed in the NFL as Goodell hears the appeals, essentially, as well. I know the process has changed slightly recently, but I don't think Goodell will be far away from any decision.

It is interesting what becomes the norm though, and how outraged people get. They are up in arms over this, and yet how many players in the league are currently playing despite having PEDs discovered in their bodies? How many served pathetic suspensions? And yet bulked up players must be the single most dangerous aspect to another player's safety, and yet because it is now sort of accepted, this deflate gate thing is getting more air time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of the Pat, but I admire what they've done in the free agent era. It's incredible. I think deflating balls was stupid, sly and unnecessary and is probably a bit of glimpse into their mentality and ethical compass, but does it taint all their achievements? Not at all in my view.

So there's an

unsavoury element to the way they go about their business

but that doesn't taint anything? A bit of fence riding there my friend!

I go along with all you say besides. Their achievements are simply stunning, no doubt. The way they build through the draft and are so ruthlessly efficient in free agency is incredible and it has sustained them as challengers for an almost impossible length of time. Unbelievable coaching is obviously to the fore also as of course is possibly one of the top 5 QB's to ever play the game.

I think because of the spygate thing this issue is getting much more attention than it normally would. They didn't need to be at this kind of thing and it doesn't sit well with lots of people.

The disciplinary system in the NFL is a complete joke and has got out of hand under Goodell. He screwed up so badly on Rice that he now seems to impose penalties based on how he thinks the public will react. This will be appealed and halved.

[Clov]

What is the appropriate punishment in this case and why?

The NFL is a 32 team cartel and as such when it comes to disciplinary issues their only real concern is the impact their disciplinary decisions have on the ability to flog their product to Joe Public. They will punish cheating, even when in instances like this it had no material affect on the game outcome, as it is paramount that the public has confidence in the integrity of the game.

[AZOffaly]

I don't think what they've achieved is tainted by this, but throw in the Spygate as well and you at least have an unsavoury element to the way they go about their business.

What they have done is phenomonal, and they don't need to be letting air out of footballs, or spying on the New York F**king Jets. Belichik has grown an empire there, in fairness to him, and Brady is his totem. For Belichik and Brady to be caught cheating in two separate incidents is disappointing to say the least.

*However* the NFL are absolutely making things up as they go, and are a complete joke. Goodell has been good for the league in a lot of ways, but his approach to discipline and penalties is ridiculous. This is far too big for what the offence actually was, and removing a draft pick is in many ways worse than missing Brady for 4 games. What precedence was used for this? I can see the appeal reducing it, although the appeals process is flawed in the NFL as Goodell hears the appeals, essentially, as well. I know the process has changed slightly recently, but I don't think Goodell will be far away from any decision.

It is interesting what becomes the norm though, and how outraged people get. They are up in arms over this, and yet how many players in the league are currently playing despite having PEDs discovered in their bodies? How many served pathetic suspensions? And yet bulked up players must be the single most dangerous aspect to another player's safety, and yet because it is now sort of accepted, this deflate gate thing is getting more air time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of the Pat, but I admire what they've done in the free agent era. It's incredible. I think deflating balls was stupid, sly and unnecessary and is probably a bit of glimpse into their mentality and ethical compass, but does it taint all their achievements? Not at all in my view.

So there's an

unsavoury element to the way they go about their business

but that doesn't taint anything? A bit of fence riding there my friend!

I go along with all you say besides. Their achievements are simply stunning, no doubt. The way they build through the draft and are so ruthlessly efficient in free agency is incredible and it has sustained them as challengers for an almost impossible length of time. Unbelievable coaching is obviously to the fore also as of course is possibly one of the top 5 QB's to ever play the game.

I think because of the spygate thing this issue is getting much more attention than it normally would. They didn't need to be at this kind of thing and it doesn't sit well with lots of people.

The disciplinary system in the NFL is a complete joke and has got out of hand under Goodell. He screwed up so badly on Rice that he now seems to impose penalties based on how he thinks the public will react. This will be appealed and halved.

It depends what you mean by taint. I took it that you meant it tainted them in that there should be an 'asterix' beside their name when they won the superbowls or whatever. In otherwords they won BECAUSE they did this sort of thing.

I don't believe that.

I do believe they are not averse to a bit of sneakiness, based on those two incidents alone even, but that's not a reason why they won.

[AZOffaly]

What is the appropriate punishment in this case and why?

The NFL is a 32 team cartel and as such when it comes to disciplinary issues their only real concern is the impact their disciplinary decisions have on the ability to flog their product to Joe Public. They will punish cheating, even when in instances like this it had no material affect on the game outcome, as it is paramount that the public has confidence in the integrity of the game.

A lot of truth in that Clov, and it's the reason why I think they make it up as they go along. They try to guage the public outrage and match a punishment to that, rather than having a set of consistent punishments that everyone knows is applicable for certain types of offences. Then the only variable becomes matching a specific incident to a category and getting the relevant punishment.

In this case, I believe they were trying to manipulate equipment to give their quarterback a bit more comfort when throwing a ball. Given that this game was going to be a run,run,run game I don't think it materially impacted the result.

To me it's along the lines of Brian Clough watering the bejaysus out of a pitch to make it a bog before a European tie, or Cork trying to use their own sliotars rather than the approved O'Neills ones in games. (remember when Donal Óg used to switch them at puck out?).

I would have thought that that sort of manipulation of equipment would merit a fine, and perhaps a one game suspension for Brady. I suspect when the appeal is heard it may end up more like that anyway.