American Sports Thread

[foxcommander]

And as for Bears - Bears have killed people. Such a sick nickname to have on a team. victims of Bear violence really shouldn't have to put up with this affront.

If you think about it the Chicago Bears is offensive to the gay community.

[Oraisteach]

Seanie, I'm with AZ on this one.  I think the issue extends beyond PCness and into a recognition of how some of these nicknames and logos genuinely offend the peoples on whom they're based.  You bring up the Notre Dame Fighting Irish, and there probably would be a move to ban the name and logo if a groundswell of Irish people found them offensive and complained forcefully to the NCAA about the matter.  As far as I know, no one has ever raised a serious voice of protest on the issue.  Frankly, I'm not calling for their removal, but I do find the idiotic logo and the feckin' leprechaun mascot irritating.

As a longtime Cleveland Indians fan, I've always been bothered by the Chief Wahoo mascot.  Far from honouring a Native American called Sockalexis, as some proponents argue, it demeans all Indians, in the same way that cartoon images of ape-like Irish did in years past.  And though 70% of Clevelanders favour the retention of the symbol, they are not the ones being ridiculed by his big nose and leering smile.

AZ mentions the FSU Seminoles, but there's a difference here.  The Seminole people of Florida and Oklahoma have approved of FSU's use of Chief Osceola as their mascot.  In fact, before each game Chief Osceola rides out on an Apaloosa, brandishing a flaming spear, and drives the spear into the face of mascot painted at centre field.  As far as I know, the Seminole people have been consulted about the clothes, face paint and feathers that the human mascot wears.  I do have to admit, though, that it's a little odd to be honouring a Seminole chief by driving a spear into his face, not to mention having thousands in attendance doing the tomahawk chop.

On a separate note, I've always thought that Notre Dame should be called the Squabbling French since the university was founded by Moreau and Dujarie, two Frenchmen.

And on a final note, maybe Muslims in Belfast should rise up and object to the name of the Irish League soccer team Crusaders.  Now I'm being facetious.

[Puckoon]

My old English teacher (RIP) used to tell me I was being facetious, with fair regularity. I think you are being facetious now

I don't think a nickname like the Chicago Negroes or Dallas Blackfaces would be allowed. And that's why I think Redskins is offensive to some.

Nothing to do with Bears, Cardinals, Lions or Vikings.

As I said, there appears to be several other team names which don't cause much hassle, like the Chiefs, Blackhawks, Braves, Seminoles, Utes etc. None of them refer to the tribes in a derogatory way. Redskin is very similar to Negro or Nigger in it's usage.

It is, but it isn't. Wife and I were just discussing this last night while watching the Chiefs. I have never heard the word Redskin be used in any context other than to address the football team. Same cannot be said of the other two in the bolded sentence.

[Oraisteach]

Puck, apart from it being used to identify colleges or sports team, the only time I ever heard the term "Redskin" being used was in Westerns I watched in the 60s.  Invariably, it was used to denote the "baddies," those wild barbarians hellbent on kidnapping, raping, pillaging and, of course, scalping the civilized white folk.  I imagine that's why Native Americans are offended by the word.

[AZOffaly]

Exactly Oraisteach. Puck, I think *today* you seldom hear people talk about the 'red' man or redskins, but historically that's exactly what it was, a term, usually derogatory, to identify the Indian tribes as 'Redskins'. Sames as the other terms I used, although I accept that the usage of the Redskin term is generally confined to old Cowboy movies. That doesn't change it's origins though.

[J70]

I've just been reading a little bit about the Washington Redskins name controversy. It's incredible that in the year 2014 they are still refusing to change it, despite requests from several Native American groups who find it offensive.

PC nonsense if you ask me. Should Notre Dame's nickname be changed? Very negative connotations towards Irish people..... 

Don't agree at all. Just because it took decades for society to cop on to the offensiveness of using a derogatory ethnic name for a team doesn't mean it should be allowed to continue. The n-word was considered acceptable for much longer that the Washington team has existed.

[foxcommander]

I've just been reading a little bit about the Washington Redskins name controversy. It's incredible that in the year 2014 they are still refusing to change it, despite requests from several Native American groups who find it offensive.

PC nonsense if you ask me. Should Notre Dame's nickname be changed? Very negative connotations towards Irish people..... 

yep, the whole redskins fiasco was really started as a lawsuit to try get some cash out of the franchise by some enterprising fellows.
get the liberal media on-board with a story and boom...they get hold of something that is perceived as offensive and run with it. it sells papers and gets viewers.


How come all of a sudden huge numbers of people get offended by the name of a team. You would swear its the first time they have heard it.
there lies the power of suggestion via the press. we seems to have a few on this board who gets sucked in too.

[thejuice]

The majority of native Americans don't want the name to change but that fact seems to be overlooked. And honestly would a team adopt a name they thought was derogatory. That would suggest their thought process was "let's use the name of a people we think are below us for our team, that will really inspire our players".

But if the few get their way, Dan Snyder could always change it to the Washington Pioneers or maybe Washington Frontiersmen, in a strange echo of history.

[AZOffaly]

The majority of native Americans don't want the name to change but that fact seems to be overlooked. And honestly would a team adopt a name they thought was derogatory. That would suggest their thought process was "let's use the name of a people we think are below us for our team, that will really inspire our players".

But if the few get their way, Dan Snyder could always change it to the Washington Pioneers or maybe Washington Frontiersmen, in a strange echo of history.

Is that true? If so, then it should stay. I don't find Redskins offensive, how could I? I just can see how people would. And juice, the Washington Redskins were founded in 1932. There's a lot of stuff went on in 1932 and later in America that wouldn't exactly adhere to today's standards.

[Asal Mor]

It's probably true that the majority of Native Americans aren't upset by it but a lot of Native Americans have come out and said they find it offensive and want it changed. I don't think it's for us to say whether they should be offended or not, but I can see why they would be and if some of them find it offensive, I think it should be changed.
I don't think the minority should be ignored.

I'm not always politically correct myself but I think it's wrong that political correctness has taken on such a negative meaning. PC isn't all bad. When you look at how far we've come in the last 50 years, from extreme racism and total segregation to near-equality and togetherness, a lot of that is down to political correctness(learning not to use the n word for example, or make jokes about stereotypes). The term redskin has many similarities to the n word.  Although it is claimed to be and probably was intended as a tribute, in history it was often used as a derogatory term.

[J70]

It's probably true that the majority of Native Americans aren't upset by it but a lot of Native Americans have come out and said they find it offensive and want it changed. I don't think it's for us to say whether they should be offended or not, but I can see why they would be and if some of them find it offensive, I think it should be changed.
I don't think the minority should be ignored.

I'm not always politically correct myself but I think it's wrong that political correctness has taken on such a negative meaning. PC isn't all bad. When you look at how far we've come in the last 50 years, from extreme racism and total segregation to near-equality and togetherness, a lot of that is down to political correctness(learning not to use the n word for example, or make jokes about stereotypes). The term redskin has many similarities to the n word.  Although it is claimed to be and probably was intended as a tribute, in history it was often used as a derogatory term.

Exactly,  it's a bit cheeky and presumptuous for a bunch of white people to tell some other ethnic or racial group what names used to label them are and are not offensive.

[gallsman]

JJ Watt is absolutely ridiculous.

[magpie seanie]

JJ Watt is absolutely ridiculous.

I was just about to post the same thing. Completely ridiculous. MVP for the season so far without a doubt. He has 3 flippin TD's!!!!!!!

[gallsman]

JJ Watt is absolutely ridiculous.

I was just about to post the same thing. Completely ridiculous. MVP for the season so far without a doubt. He has 3 flippin TD's!!!!!!!

Saw a tweet that his 3 is more than Shady McCoy, Megatron and Larry Fitz combined. If he keeps form up, he'll have to be in MVP mix but would the AP be brave enough to go for a defensive player?

[AZOffaly]

JJ Watt is absolutely ridiculous.

I was just about to post the same thing. Completely ridiculous. MVP for the season so far without a doubt. He has 3 flippin TD's!!!!!!!

Saw a tweet that his 3 is more than Shady McCoy, Megatron and Larry Fitz combined. If he keeps form up, he'll have to be in MVP mix but would the AP be brave enough to go for a defensive player?

I think they would in Watt's case. He has the profile, the off field oersona and there is a cult of Watt. Everyone knows who he is, so I think he has the profile to overcome any issues about being a defender. Anyway, he caught a TD pass as a TE, so he's not just defense