American Sports Thread

[J70]

"Fix his mechanics"??

Is that as simple as it sounds?

I heard Chris Carter on the radio lambasting both his footwork AND his throwing.

[J70]

who are playing in the big games on Thanksgiving? is that in the next couple of weeks? I always look forward to those games, the hype and furore is brilliant

Think Green Bay and Detroit is one. I heard one prediction that that will be the Packers first loss!

I'm looking forward to Xmas eve: Giants V Jets!

[Minder]

who are playing in the big games on Thanksgiving? is that in the next couple of weeks? I always look forward to those games, the hype and furore is brilliant

Packers @ Lions

Dolphins @ Cowboys

49ers @ Ravens

[mc_grens]

Don't tell me what I am trying to say!

your word meant helping out colleagues....

your post smacked of arrogance but to be fair, I am not that into college football but I will take the word of nationally renowned football men over yours, no offense mate!

my life smacks of arrogance according to my wife. As I have said on this board repeatedly what makes this a good discussion board is the opinions on it, and everyone has one, and I'm delighted. I get uppity when mine isn't represented (or it's not taken as gospel- my wife again) as in this case.

Tebow is ranked by many in the top 25 college players, even cracks the top 10 in a few polls but nowhere not even in Florida is he number one. Hence my pointy response.

It's funny Peyton Manning has 4 League MVP awards, but the Colts lose him for the season, and guess what- turns out Manning was actually being under rated...

In my opinion what Reggie Bush is to NFL RBs is what Tebow is to NFL QBs. I'd take Eli Manning over Tebow.

Anyone would take Eli manning over Tebow at this stage however one is a rookie and the other is a veteran, hardly a fair comparison.

Peyton Manning is not under-rated, he is a top five qb of all time, he would have struggled with this years vintage with maybe two wins to hius credit, they are woeful.

OK. I'll take Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, Sam Bradford, or Matthew Stafford over Tebow. I totally believe coach Fox is doing this to get Tebow totally out of the franchise and it's fanbase's system. He clearly doesn't believe in him (and he's forgotten more about football than either you or I know), do he's starting him and letting the situation play itself out.

Fix his mechanics, give him the line any of those mentioned has and see what happens.

Manning went 1-15 in his first year I believe, and i am not talking Eli here. This kid needs time and a decent line and he will be fine.

Why you would not want a kid like this on your team is beyond me bar being he is not good enough.

Answered your own question there fella. Also Denver has some of the better young O-line players in the league.

[stew]

Don't tell me what I am trying to say!

your word meant helping out colleagues....

your post smacked of arrogance but to be fair, I am not that into college football but I will take the word of nationally renowned football men over yours, no offense mate!

my life smacks of arrogance according to my wife. As I have said on this board repeatedly what makes this a good discussion board is the opinions on it, and everyone has one, and I'm delighted. I get uppity when mine isn't represented (or it's not taken as gospel- my wife again) as in this case.

Tebow is ranked by many in the top 25 college players, even cracks the top 10 in a few polls but nowhere not even in Florida is he number one. Hence my pointy response.

It's funny Peyton Manning has 4 League MVP awards, but the Colts lose him for the season, and guess what- turns out Manning was actually being under rated...

In my opinion what Reggie Bush is to NFL RBs is what Tebow is to NFL QBs. I'd take Eli Manning over Tebow.

Anyone would take Eli manning over Tebow at this stage however one is a rookie and the other is a veteran, hardly a fair comparison.

Peyton Manning is not under-rated, he is a top five qb of all time, he would have struggled with this years vintage with maybe two wins to hius credit, they are woeful.

OK. I'll take Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, Sam Bradford, or Matthew Stafford over Tebow. I totally believe coach Fox is doing this to get Tebow totally out of the franchise and it's fanbase's system. He clearly doesn't believe in him (and he's forgotten more about football than either you or I know), do he's starting him and letting the situation play itself out.

Fix his mechanics, give him the line any of those mentioned has and see what happens.

Manning went 1-15 in his first year I believe, and i am not talking Eli here. This kid needs time and a decent line and he will be fine.

Why you would not want a kid like this on your team is beyond me bar being he is not good enough.

Answered your own question there fella. Also Denver has some of the better young O-line players in the league.

You dont know if he is good enough or not yet,. nobody does! it's called time to develop.

Denvers O line is complete and utter shite, they couldnt stop a nose bleed so i have a hard time believing they are good.

[heganboy]

Doesn't look like he is putting the fear of God into his opponents:
from http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-silver_morning_rush_tebow_struggles_103111


DENVER – During more than two decades of covering the NFL, I've heard players disparage opponents on numerous occasions. As a journalist who has yet to be crushed by the proliferation of trash-talk, I've happily facilitated this dastardly dissing and shared it with the masses when given the chance.

Usually, these statements are designed to rile a rival, or to send a message that a player and his team won't be intimidated. On Sunday at Sports Authority Field at Mile High, however, Tim Tebow(notes) was disrobed and demystified by a superior team – and then the young quarterback got low-blowed with a degree of disrespect that blew my mind.


Louis Delmas and the Lions turned Tim Tebow's world upside down.
(AP)
"Can you believe '15'?" one Detroit Lions defender asked after his team's 45-10 immolation of Tebow and the Denver Broncos. "Come on – that's embarrassing. I mean, it's a joke. We knew all week that if we brought any kind of defensive pressure, he couldn't do anything. In the second half it got boring out there. We were like, 'Come on – that's your quarterback? Seriously?' "

It would be one thing if this particular defender could be written off as an outlier, but during the time I spent in the Lions' locker room after the game – and, later, on the phone with various coaches, front-office executives and players around the league – similarly harsh assessments were uttered about the second-year quarterback making his second start of the 2011 season.

Words like atrocious, terrible, completely exposed and not even close to ready kept coming up in these conversations; a couple of Lions even used the term oh my god. They did not appear to be mocking Tebow's devout Christian beliefs – however, at least two Detroit players (middle linebacker Stephen Tulloch(notes) and tight end Tony Scheffler(notes)) made a point of "Tebowing" during the game, imitating the prayerful pose the quarterback struck following the previous Sunday's stunning overtime victory over the Miami Dolphins.


The point that was driven home on Sunday, and quite forcefully, was this: Against a crappy team like the winless Dolphins, the possibility exists that Tebow can get away with 55 minutes of flaccid football and, with the help of a blessed onside-kick recovery, add to the legend forged at Florida, where he had one of the most decorated college football careers of all time. However, against an emerging power like the Lions (6-2), he's as overmatched and vulnerable as an adolescent's eardrums in the front row of a Nickelback concert.

"As long as he felt our pressure," said Lions defensive end Cliff Avril(notes), whose third-quarter sack/fumble/recovery/return produced one of Detroit's two defensive scores, "he was gonna make crazy decisions."

In fairness, Tebow's 18-for-39, 172-yard performance – numbers padded considerably by garbage-time completions, if you can believe that – wasn't solely the product of dubious choices. His limited skill set was also on display, from an acute lack of accuracy, to a deliberate delivery (Avril dislodged the ball while Tebow was extending his arm backward before attempting to pass), to an apparent uncertainty about where to go with the ball.

None of this was necessarily a surprise to the Broncos' brass, including coach John Fox and executive vice president of football operations John Elway. Tebow's flaws were obvious to all trained observers during training camp, which is why veteran Kyle Orton(notes) was named the team's unquestioned starter in August.

Orton's struggles – and Denver (2-5) losing four of its first five games – caused the Broncos' decision-makers to call an audible, a move greeted by great popular acclaim. Yet it's hard to imagine that Elway, one of the greatest quarterbacks in football history, saw anything he didn't expect on Sunday. It was as if, by starting Tebow, he said to the 74,977 fans at Mile High, "You wanted this guy? OK, then ... Heeeerrrree's Timmy!"

Said one Lions offensive player: "It was like, 'See? Here's why ...' "

Realistically, playing Tebow makes sense on a practical level. Trading up to pick him in the first round of the 2010 draft was the highest-profile move of former coach Josh McDaniels' reign of error, and even if the Broncos plan to trade or cut Tebow after 2011, it behooves them to evaluate his potential under game conditions.

It's not Tebow's fault that his draft position heightened already inflated expectations, or that McDaniels got fired last December and a new regime less enthusiastic about the quarterback's abilities was installed. And it's debatable whether the kid has a fighting chance given Denver's obvious talent deficiencies.

"Can you believe '15'? Come on – that's embarrassing. I mean, it's a joke. We knew all week that if we brought any kind of defensive pressure, he couldn't do anything. In the second half it got boring out there. We were like, 'Come on – that's your quarterback? Seriously?'
– Unnamed Detroit Lions defender

Again, this reflects poorly on McDaniels, now the St. Louis Rams' offensive coordinator, whose record as a first-time talent evaluator is proving to be Millenesque. He made eight picks in the first two rounds of the 2009 and 2010 drafts, yet that crop yielded only three current starters: Tebow, guard Zane Beadles(notes) and defensive end Robert Ayers(notes). Of McDaniels' 19 picks overall, only eight are on Denver's active roster, three in reserve roles.

So, is Tebow being judged in an unfairly harsh light? His legions of fans would undoubtedly answer in the affirmative. They revere him for his work ethic, his values, his leadership qualities and, not insignificantly, his faith.

However – and this is a big however – there's a glaring disconnect between many fans' assessment of Tebow's status as a wholesome winner and the way many NFL players process his presence. To some, the notion that Tebow somehow pushes harder or taps into a higher power than they do is insulting. The NFL is full of maniacally driven grinders who've overcome incredible odds to reach the pinnacle of their profession, and many of them are clean-living and well-mannered, too.

While few NFL players seem to have a problem with Tebow on a personal level, I know plenty who are put off by the mythology and the holier-than-thou fan base that lionizes his every accomplishment and perceives negative depictions of his ability through a persecution-complex-tinted prism.

The result, as we saw on Sunday, is in-your-face Tebowing: Tulloch, after a first-quarter sack, literally knelt over the fallen Tebow while striking the pose. He later said he meant no disrespect – and Tulloch is a thoughtful veteran hardly known for his insolence – but neither he nor his teammates were overly apologetic, either.

After a decade as the NFL's laughingstock, these Lions are embracing a Bad Boy image similar to that of the '80s Pistons, with second-year defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh(notes) playing the role of Bill Laimbeer. On Friday, an NFL.com headline portrayed Sunday's showdown as a struggle between good and evil, with accompanying photos of Tebow and Suh.

"Evil prevails," Suh told reporters after a defensive effort that included seven sacks.

How torturous was it? With 11 minutes left in the game, not long after he'd served up a 100-yard interception return to Lions cornerback Chris Houston(notes), Tebow was 8-for-26 for 85 yards. At one point, the Broncos had seven consecutive three-play drives. He ran 10 times for 63 yards, getting pummeled by safety Louis Delmas(notes) after a 12-yard scramble on the final play of the third quarter. When he threw, he seemed locked in on his primary receiver.

That "IN-COM-PLETE" cheer that Broncos fans like to bust out for opposing passers? They might want to come up with an alternate version to herald Tebow's completions.

Afterward, Fox refused to commit to Tebow as his starter for next Sunday's game against the Raiders in Oakland. "It's too early to say," he told reporters.

A source familiar with the Broncos' thinking said he expected Tebow to last another couple of games until – barring a dramatic improvement on the left-hander's part – the team turns to current third-stringer Brady Quinn(notes), a 2007 first-round pick of the Cleveland Browns. The Broncos would then target a quarterback in the first round of next April's draft, with a trio of Big 12 passers – Oklahoma's Landry Jones, Baylor's Robert Griffin and Oklahoma State's Brandon Weeden – the likeliest candidates at this point. The draft's projected top QB prize, Andrew Luck, would presumably be off the board before Denver picks.

Until then, the Tebow Dream lives on, albeit in a slightly battered and heavily disrespected state after Sunday's thrashing.

"You've got to go out there and get better," Tebow told reporters in his postgame news conference. "[If] you want it to be different, then make it different."

If he's going to make it different in Denver, he'd better get better soon. For right now, as some of Tebow's opponents will gladly attest, it appears as though he doesn't have a prayer.

[stew]

That last article has me convinced.   

The Lions will get their shit handed to them on Thanksgiving day, Rodgers will destroy them and  once that game is won Detroit will be lucky to scrape into the playoffs, I hope they don't, I hope it is the bears that get in because they are in green Bays pocket.

I was hoping the Lions would do well this year, no more, they have accomplished nothing and since they are in the same division as the pack they will continue to do nothing because the pack are building a dynasty and the bears are just as good as Detroit.

One last thought, if Tebow was black they would not have said half of the things they said in that article, reverse racism, I think so.

[heganboy]

One last thought, if Tebow was black they would not have said half of the things they said in that article, reverse racism, I think so.

I've heard it all now. You have got to be kidding?

Maybe it's because eye's a guy- if he was a girl there wouldn't be any of this sort of stuff either. Or maybe its because he's straight or he's a Christian. Actually you know what its because of his name Tim, Tim's get it tough.

Or maybe its because he's not good enough for the NFL (yet- i'll give you that even though I don't think he'll make it)

[sammymaguire]

who are playing in the big games on Thanksgiving? is that in the next couple of weeks? I always look forward to those games, the hype and furore is brilliant

Packers @ Lions

Dolphins @ Cowboys

49ers @ Ravens

Looking like a good line up, 1st two games will create some buzz

[stew]

One last thought, if Tebow was black they would not have said half of the things they said in that article, reverse racism, I think so.

I've heard it all now. You have got to be kidding?

Do you think there is no reverse racism in the NFL??? The verbiage they used in that article would never be used to describe a black athlete, never.

Maybe it's because eye's a guy- if he was a girl there wouldn't be any of this sort of stuff either. Or maybe its because he's straight or he's a Christian. Actually you know what its because of his name Tim, Tim's get it tough.

it's an opinion, my opinion, nothing to do with his name, who he shags or his faith.

Or maybe its because he's not good enough for the NFL (yet- i'll give you that even though I don't think he'll make it)

Professionals should  never call each other out like that and by the way, a Detroit player who sacked Rodgers last season called him a effin cracker as he knocked seven shades of bleep out of him, I suppose he did that because he was a straight Christian boy named Aaron. 

I know he will make it, maybe he isnt cut out to be a QB but believe me they will find a home for him somewhere, he is too good an athlete not to.

[new devil]

One last thought, if Tebow was black they would not have said half of the things they said in that article, reverse racism, I think so.

I've heard it all now. You have got to be kidding?

Do you think there is no reverse racism in the NFL??? The verbiage they used in that article would never be used to describe a black athlete, never.

Maybe it's because eye's a guy- if he was a girl there wouldn't be any of this sort of stuff either. Or maybe its because he's straight or he's a Christian. Actually you know what its because of his name Tim, Tim's get it tough.

it's an opinion, my opinion, nothing to do with his name, who he shags or his faith.

Or maybe its because he's not good enough for the NFL (yet- i'll give you that even though I don't think he'll make it)

Professionals should  never call each other out like that and by the way, a Detroit player who sacked Rodgers last season called him a effin cracker as he knocked seven shades of bleep out of him, I suppose he did that because he was a straight Christian boy named Aaron. 

I know he will make it, maybe he isnt cut out to be a QB but believe me they will find a home for him somewhere, he is too good an athlete not to.

Nail on head

[thejuice]

maybe he isnt cut out to be a QB but believe me they will find a home for him somewhere, he is too good an athlete not to.

on a rugby field in Europe would be his best bet 

[GalwayBayBoy]

The window of opportunity for Tebow is not big. Another horror show from him and the Broncos will be able to say to their fans "see we told you he wasn't ready". Not to mention there are some very good QB's in next year's draft like Andrew Luck and Landry Jones. Lads who will probably go straight into starting QB slots on an NFL team so there will be even less space for a project with questionable fundamentals like Tebow.

[stew]

The window of opportunity for Tebow is not big. Another horror show from him and the Broncos will be able to say to their fans "see we told you he wasn't ready". Not to mention there are some very good QB's in next year's draft like Andrew Luck and Landry Jones. Lads who will probably go straight into starting QB slots on an NFL team so there will be even less space for a project with questionable fundamentals like Tebow.

He deserves a chance but will probably not get it, it is a win now league but if it was me I would give him the experience the rest of the way to see if he can tighten up, i am sure he can, it's not as if he is thick now is it?

[Jonah]

Can anyone explain why LA Galaxy were playing New York Red Bulls in the Western Conf semi final the other night?
Also is there anywhere I can watch MLS games online?