Has the intercounty system in football told us all it’s ever going to tell us?

Started by caprea, February 13, 2020, 05:38:52 AM

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thewobbler

But Caprea, the county game doesn't generate €70m. Nothing close to it.

There were €36.1m ticket sales and this was an exceptionally good year as there was an AI final replay.

That's sales. That revenue. It's not profit.

——

For reference, over €10m was generated from concerts, from roughly 5% the number of events, as there was GAA matches.

——

What is it makes you believe that if you keep saying €70m that this will be the figure that people believe? Stop being a twit.

caprea

Quote from: thewobbler on February 21, 2020, 09:09:08 PM
But Caprea, the county game doesn't generate €70m. Nothing close to it.

There were €36.1m ticket sales and this was an exceptionally good year as there was an AI final replay.

That's sales. That revenue. It's not profit.

——

For reference, over €10m was generated from concerts, from roughly 5% the number of events, as there was GAA matches.

——

What is it makes you believe that if you keep saying €70m that this will be the figure that people believe? Stop being a twit.

Must have never being TV Cameras at the matches you were at, no sponsorship either.

LeoMc

Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 08:58:51 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2020, 07:34:15 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 01:19:51 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2020, 01:13:12 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 01:05:37 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2020, 12:55:47 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 12:39:07 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2020, 12:14:30 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 12:00:23 PM
So people will pay 100 euro for an all Ireland final ticket between Kerry and Dublin Junior teams?

It will be the Kerry and Dublin senior teams. With the best available talent. There's always some players who make themselves unavailable. I don't know a single person who would stop attending a game because certain players wasn't playing. If by your view all the players for all the teams decided to strike (Which would never happen), and the GAA replaced the players with the best available, the AI final between Dublin and Kerry would still sell out. I have no doubt of that. And it would still be Sam Maguire they win, and the supporters would still celebrate the win as much as any.

So fans will pay 100 euro to see Kerry and Dublin's current junior teams play for Sam maguire in a packed Croker?

I know if Tyrone were in the AI final, I would pay £100 to see them. I know most in my circles would as well. If that team was the best of what was available then absolutely. I don't believe a players strike for pay would have support in the wider GAA community. I actually think if this was to happen many within the GAA community would make a point of supporting the players who stepped up to replace them.
So my answer is yes fans would pay it.
Do you think a players strike for pay would have support in the wider community?

Ok thanks. I don't agree. We've seen what happens when teams strike and how supporter interest is affected and how striking players always won the fight and county boards had to accede to their demands.

No I don't think striking players would have support in the community. It would divide opinion but ultimately they wouldn't have huge support for sure. Do I think it matters? Yes. Do I think it matters a lot? No I don't.

The biggest problems I see with what I propose is South Dublin doesn't have a stadium, GPO's would be laid off and replaced by pro players in their off season. That will be painful and I don't have an easy answer to it.
Yeah this is the bit I can't accept. It would come down to a decision by the GAA to side with 800 odd players or side with the majority of the organisation. I think they know where their bread is buttered and I don't think it would be the 800 odd players. The reality is if they replace these 800 players, then new players will step up and shine. There'll be new elite players who will know what will happens if they decide to strike and therefore won't take that option. And the GAA will return to where it was. It's a misconception that the players have the power (In my eyes anyway).

I think you underestimate the power of elite players and the idea they can be easily replaced with inferior players and people will still pay ticket prices in anywhere the same numbers is not something I'd be onboard with.
And in my opinion you are overestimating their power. I know for a large swathe if the GAA membership it is club first. County games are grand for a few days out in the summer but if your County is beat, great let's get on with the real football.

Sure I don't follow the county game at all. Waste of time. I'm pure club. Doesn't mean the county game doesn't generate 70 million a year.
So why the obsession with IC finances and ways to break the current IC structure and its attendant loyalties.

caprea

Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2020, 10:39:18 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 08:58:51 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2020, 07:34:15 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 01:19:51 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2020, 01:13:12 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 01:05:37 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2020, 12:55:47 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 12:39:07 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2020, 12:14:30 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 12:00:23 PM
So people will pay 100 euro for an all Ireland final ticket between Kerry and Dublin Junior teams?

It will be the Kerry and Dublin senior teams. With the best available talent. There's always some players who make themselves unavailable. I don't know a single person who would stop attending a game because certain players wasn't playing. If by your view all the players for all the teams decided to strike (Which would never happen), and the GAA replaced the players with the best available, the AI final between Dublin and Kerry would still sell out. I have no doubt of that. And it would still be Sam Maguire they win, and the supporters would still celebrate the win as much as any.

So fans will pay 100 euro to see Kerry and Dublin's current junior teams play for Sam maguire in a packed Croker?

I know if Tyrone were in the AI final, I would pay £100 to see them. I know most in my circles would as well. If that team was the best of what was available then absolutely. I don't believe a players strike for pay would have support in the wider GAA community. I actually think if this was to happen many within the GAA community would make a point of supporting the players who stepped up to replace them.
So my answer is yes fans would pay it.
Do you think a players strike for pay would have support in the wider community?

Ok thanks. I don't agree. We've seen what happens when teams strike and how supporter interest is affected and how striking players always won the fight and county boards had to accede to their demands.

No I don't think striking players would have support in the community. It would divide opinion but ultimately they wouldn't have huge support for sure. Do I think it matters? Yes. Do I think it matters a lot? No I don't.

The biggest problems I see with what I propose is South Dublin doesn't have a stadium, GPO's would be laid off and replaced by pro players in their off season. That will be painful and I don't have an easy answer to it.
Yeah this is the bit I can't accept. It would come down to a decision by the GAA to side with 800 odd players or side with the majority of the organisation. I think they know where their bread is buttered and I don't think it would be the 800 odd players. The reality is if they replace these 800 players, then new players will step up and shine. There'll be new elite players who will know what will happens if they decide to strike and therefore won't take that option. And the GAA will return to where it was. It's a misconception that the players have the power (In my eyes anyway).

I think you underestimate the power of elite players and the idea they can be easily replaced with inferior players and people will still pay ticket prices in anywhere the same numbers is not something I'd be onboard with.
And in my opinion you are overestimating their power. I know for a large swathe if the GAA membership it is club first. County games are grand for a few days out in the summer but if your County is beat, great let's get on with the real football.

Sure I don't follow the county game at all. Waste of time. I'm pure club. Doesn't mean the county game doesn't generate 70 million a year.
So why the obsession with IC finances and ways to break the current IC structure and its attendant loyalties.

The reason is stated in the topic title.

For now let's go on with the intercounty system but if Dublin with a little bit of Kerry dominate for the next decade then it's time to rethink the structure drastically.

caprea

Quote from: caprea on February 21, 2020, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 21, 2020, 09:09:08 PM
But Caprea, the county game doesn't generate €70m. Nothing close to it.

There were €36.1m ticket sales and this was an exceptionally good year as there was an AI final replay.

That's sales. That revenue. It's not profit.

——

For reference, over €10m was generated from concerts, from roughly 5% the number of events, as there was GAA matches.

——

What is it makes you believe that if you keep saying €70m that this will be the figure that people believe? Stop being a twit.

Must have never being TV Cameras at the matches you were at, no sponsorship either.

In addition the 36.1 million in Gate receipts is wrong. It's 49 million for championship games. I don't think that includes league receipts either so it's higher again.


caprea

Quote from: thewobbler on February 22, 2020, 10:51:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/0211/1114542-gaa-announce-record-revenue-of-73-9-million-for-2019/

That's my source. Looking forward to seeing yours.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/galway-top-of-the-turnstiles-as-gaa-take-in-60m-in-2019-38976578.html

A figure of €36.1m, spurred by a ticket price increase, an All-Ireland football final replay and bigger average attendances at centrally organised games, was recorded at last week's presentation of the annual report to Congress.

But on top of that there was a further €13.3m gathered through the four provincial championships, bringing the turnstile value of inter-county games to €49.4m. Munster and Leinster both recorded gates in excess of €5m, benefiting off the back of the second year of the hurling championship's new round-robin format.

caprea

We are still playing Leinster championship games even though Dublin are unbeatable in it? What's the point in a competition where we already know the outcome, not just for this year but for the foreseeable future, maybe for all time. The gap is not closing, it's widening.

BennyCake

Quote from: caprea on November 22, 2020, 01:56:41 AM
We are still playing Leinster championship games even though Dublin are unbeatable in it? What's the point in a competition where we already know the outcome, not just for this year but for the foreseeable future, maybe for all time. The gap is not closing, it's widening.

Are you talking about Leinster or the All Ireland championships?

caprea

Quote from: BennyCake on November 22, 2020, 09:05:37 AM
Quote from: caprea on November 22, 2020, 01:56:41 AM
We are still playing Leinster championship games even though Dublin are unbeatable in it? What's the point in a competition where we already know the outcome, not just for this year but for the foreseeable future, maybe for all time. The gap is not closing, it's widening.

Are you talking about Leinster or the All Ireland championships?

Leinster.

In terms of all Ireland's. I think we'll see Dublin win most of the next ten and kerry win a few. So kerry and Dublin.. the most historically successful counties ..go forward to win more. So what's the point really. We know they were the best already. If that never changes, hasn't the intercounty system run its course so that more than a handful of counties have a real interest in an all Ireland.

BennyCake

Quote from: caprea on November 22, 2020, 09:32:36 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 22, 2020, 09:05:37 AM
Quote from: caprea on November 22, 2020, 01:56:41 AM
We are still playing Leinster championship games even though Dublin are unbeatable in it? What's the point in a competition where we already know the outcome, not just for this year but for the foreseeable future, maybe for all time. The gap is not closing, it's widening.

Are you talking about Leinster or the All Ireland championships?

Leinster.

In terms of all Ireland's. I think we'll see Dublin win most of the next ten and kerry win a few. So kerry and Dublin.. the most historically successful counties ..go forward to win more. So what's the point really. We know they were the best already. If that never changes, hasn't the intercounty system run its course so that more than a handful of counties have a real interest in an all Ireland.

I doubt we'll even see that.

The AI championship is finished. Even the most successful team needs rivals to make it in some way interesting.

I think a lot of people had some hope this year, with a knockout format, heavy pitches, no second chances. Dublin with new manager, a couple of opt outs, maybe they could be caught cold. Absolutely no chance. If they can't be caught in this situation, they'll not be caught in a CL style format, usual format or a A/B championship format.

When Dublin stroll to 6 in a row in December, any air that was left in the championship bag will be long gone.

caprea

Quote from: BennyCake on November 22, 2020, 10:58:09 AM
Quote from: caprea on November 22, 2020, 09:32:36 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 22, 2020, 09:05:37 AM
Quote from: caprea on November 22, 2020, 01:56:41 AM


When Dublin stroll to 6 in a row in December, any air that was left in the championship bag will be long gone.

Nah, there's a few years of pointlessness left. But we are in the dying throes of the intercounty system. It just doesn't work as an interesting structure anymore.

Look-Up!

Quote from: BennyCake on November 22, 2020, 10:58:09 AM
Quote from: caprea on November 22, 2020, 09:32:36 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 22, 2020, 09:05:37 AM
Quote from: caprea on November 22, 2020, 01:56:41 AM
We are still playing Leinster championship games even though Dublin are unbeatable in it? What's the point in a competition where we already know the outcome, not just for this year but for the foreseeable future, maybe for all time. The gap is not closing, it's widening.

Are you talking about Leinster or the All Ireland championships?

Leinster.

In terms of all Ireland's. I think we'll see Dublin win most of the next ten and kerry win a few. So kerry and Dublin.. the most historically successful counties ..go forward to win more. So what's the point really. We know they were the best already. If that never changes, hasn't the intercounty system run its course so that more than a handful of counties have a real interest in an all Ireland.

I doubt we'll even see that.

The AI championship is finished. Even the most successful team needs rivals to make it in some way interesting.

I think a lot of people had some hope this year, with a knockout format, heavy pitches, no second chances. Dublin with new manager, a couple of opt outs, maybe they could be caught cold. Absolutely no chance. If they can't be caught in this situation, they'll not be caught in a CL style format, usual format or a A/B championship format.

When Dublin stroll to 6 in a row in December, any air that was left in the championship bag will be long gone.
No problem if you play all your games in CP

Rossfan

Munster SFC -  a 2 County competition. Only issue is which will come first Kerry's 100th or Cork's 50th.
Connacht SFC - 3 Counties competitive now.
Ulster SFC - 3 Counties have shared the last 12 with Tyrone and Donegal dominating.
Leinster- 1 County has won 15 of the last 16.
All Ireland SFC -1 County has won 7 of the last 9 and looking like 8 out of 10.
All getting a bit pointless.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Eire90

if they bring back super 8s dublin could be beat twice and still win all ireland.