The Catholic religious orders and power

[Owen Brannigan]

If the Church presented the government with a bill for all its health,educational and social services provision for decades,the state would be bankrupt

Not in the North where the state has been funding education and health for the benefit of the non-state providers.

[T Fearon]

It is only comparatively recently that the Mater Hospital in Belfast became state funded.By the way are there many so called Catholic Schools who have clergy on the teaching staff these days? Unlike my day,when all Catholic Schools invariably had five or six clergy on teaching staff and the School Principal was invariably a priest or nun.

[longballin]

It is only comparatively recently that the Mater Hospital in Belfast became state funded.By the way are there many so called Catholic Schools who have clergy on the teaching staff these days? Unlike my day,when all Catholic Schools invariably had five or six clergy on teaching staff and the School Principal was invariably a priest or nun.

true had the misfortune to be taught by a few of them... most either perverts or sadists

[Owen Brannigan]

It is only comparatively recently that the Mater Hospital in Belfast became state funded.By the way are there many so called Catholic Schools who have clergy on the teaching staff these days? Unlike my day,when all Catholic Schools invariably had five or six clergy on teaching staff and the School Principal was invariably a priest or nun.

While the Mater came into NHS control in 1972, it was funded by the state since the beginning of the welfare state after the war.

There are no clergy teaching or principals in any schools in N.Ireland.  One school in NI has a nun as its principal, otherwise there are no members of religious orders working as principals or teachers in NI.

[Itchy]

It is only comparatively recently that the Mater Hospital in Belfast became state funded.By the way are there many so called Catholic Schools who have clergy on the teaching staff these days? Unlike my day,when all Catholic Schools invariably had five or six clergy on teaching staff and the School Principal was invariably a priest or nun.

true had the misfortune to be taught by a few of them... most either perverts or sadists

Sure they can't find enough priests to man the churches never mind schools.

[Dougal Maguire]

It is only comparatively recently that the Mater Hospital in Belfast became state funded.By the way are there many so called Catholic Schools who have clergy on the teaching staff these days? Unlike my day,when all Catholic Schools invariably had five or six clergy on teaching staff and the School Principal was invariably a priest or nun.

true had the misfortune to be taught by a few of them... most either perverts or sadists

Well said.

[Dougal Maguire]

If the Church presented the government with a bill for all its health,educational and social services provision for decades,the state would be bankrupt

Church now morally bankrupt as details of what went on continue to emerge

[T Fearon]

Well,that being the case,how much control does the Church have on modern education,or on healthcare?

My memories of school and the clergy therein are thankfully fond ones.I or no one else I heard of had any experience of any malpractice from any one of these fine men,all doing their best for students while living with a vow of poverty (though ironically there was one lay teacher,married with kids,who had a notorious reputation and was eventually convicted for abuse,and that was back in the 80s).I also went on priest led school trips abroad,with no problems whatsoever.

[longballin]

Well,that being the case,how much control does the Church have on modern education,or on healthcare?

My memories of school and the clergy therein are thankfully fond ones.I or no one else I heard of had any experience of any malpractice from any one of these fine men,all doing their best for students while living with a vow of poverty (though ironically there was one lay teacher,married with kids,who had a notorious reputation and was eventually convicted for abuse,and that was back in the 80s).I also went on priest led school trips abroad,with no problems whatsoever.

Your head's full of magic Tony... vow of poverty    living off the backs of the people in their big parish houses driving the best of cars...

[Owen Brannigan]

Well,that being the case,how much control does the Church have on modern education,or on healthcare?

My memories of school and the clergy therein are thankfully fond ones.I or no one else I heard of had any experience of any malpractice from any one of these fine men,all doing their best for students while living with a vow of poverty (though ironically there was one lay teacher,married with kids,who had a notorious reputation and was eventually convicted for abuse,and that was back in the 80s).I also went on priest led school trips abroad,with no problems whatsoever.

No they didn't.  Priests in schools received their salary like any other teacher.  Only nuns and brothers had their pay taken by their orders and were given a meagre allowance to live on.

[Owen Brannigan]

Well,that being the case,how much control does the Church have on modern education,or on healthcare?

In NI, the Church has the following controls:

1. It has formed the N.Ireland Council for Catholic Education which has a number of bishops working with some representatives of religious orders.  They control the direction of the Catholic schools in terms of their ethos and religious teaching.  They will appoint representatives to the Boards of Governors of all schools who are the managers of the schools.  Some schools do not follow their edicts, e.g. they have demanded an end to academic selection but his has not been followed by every grammar school where the Boards of Governors still have their own opinions and are in law the school managers.  The NICCE also appoints the membership of the Council for Catholic Maintained Schools (CCMS) and it is the nominal owner of the school estate that it handed over to the state.

2. CCMS is controlled by the representatives of the Church.  It is the employing authority for Catholic Maintained schools but not grammar schools.  It provides HR facilities for the schools and pays the teachers on their behalf.  It looks after development of the schools estate and the curriculum standards.

3. Each school has a Board of Governors since the Church accepted the deal for full funding all Boards have a 4:3:1:1 ratio of governors.  4 Church reps, 3 State reps, 1 teacher rep and 1 parent rep.  So, the Church doesn't have a majority control of school Boards.

[T Fearon]

The priests Vincentians all lived in the College and shared a Hillman Imp.

[manfromdelmonte]

Ok.How about the Church and faithful withdraw their (mainly voluntary) services in all aspects of Irish Life including charity (SVP),Chaplaincies etc

SVP is run by lay people in the republic for the most part. my mother is involved with them

chaplaincy isn't voluntary, they get paid for it in most cases and its indoctrination by another means

[seafoid]

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/its-not-acceptable-that-women-have-to-fight-for-healthcare-dr-ciara-kelly-slams-proposed-maternity-hospital-move-35646104.html

Dr Ciara Kelly has lashed out against move to make the Sisters  ;of Charity the sole owners of the new National Maternity Hospital

Dr. Kelly criticised the religious order in showing a "significant failure of atonement" in failing to pay off their outstanding debt to the redress scheme, adding that there was a "huge anger" among the public.

"The big thing is about the ethos. There is a long history of conflict between the church and providing women's health in this country. The church does not approve of contraception, sterilisation, IVF, egg freezing," Dr. Kelly said.

"It's not acceptable that women have to fight for healthcare in this country."

[Owen Brannigan]

Surely the government could draft and pass legislation to simply cease the land and properties belonging to the orders to the value they owe and do it now.