Ballyjamesduff

[Esmarelda]

We now have people diagnosed with psychosis when they are dead. How did that mental state examination happen.? As a previous poster stated  this thread should be closed. Halfwits posing as forensic psychiatrists.

Who diagnosed him with psychosis, if that's even possible?

The expert said that he progressed to psychotic symptoms. He was asked to give his opinion.

A diagnosis after death can only be speculation.

Nobody has mentioned diagnosis except you.

[charlieTully]

We now have people diagnosed with psychosis when they are dead. How did that mental state examination happen.? As a previous poster stated  this thread should be closed. Halfwits posing as forensic psychiatrists.

Who diagnosed him with psychosis, if that's even possible?

The expert said that he progressed to psychotic symptoms. He was asked to give his opinion.

A diagnosis after death can only be speculation.

Nobody has mentioned diagnosis except you.

So he was visiting a therapist and doctor who hadn't diagnosed him with anything apart from stress. But retrospectively another doctor diagnosed him as suffering from depression and psychosis. Was this diagnosis based on the additional actions of murdering his family and suicide?

The point Im getting at is does that diagnosis diminish his responsibility?
.....And could he plead accordingly at a murder trial if he hadn't committed suicide?

Also a murder trial would doubtless have given another perspective of being a man being overwhelmed with pride and jealousy who snapped because his wife was leaving him, killed her in a rage and then callously killed his children so they would never know the monster he was.

The psychologist in this case also feels that Alan Hawe suffered from a depressive condition which then developed into a psychotic act that day.


Mental health support is too mysterious. Even if Hawe had problems at work and in his marriage 4 people didn't need to die. Maybe he could have been hospitalised for a month or two.
If people are experiencing psychotic symptoms they should be under medical supervision
Most of the 450 or so people who take their own lives every year do not know that help is available.

[seafoid]

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/hawe-killings-fit-characteristics-of-other-murder-suicides-1.3336832

Hawe's lengthy suicide notes left at the scene of his crimes – evidence that Prof Kennedy relied on, along with Hawe's counselling and GP notes, for his diagnosis – reveal a man intent on taking his own life and explaining the murders of his family on the basis that he was saving them from the shame of living with his suicide.

"I know you all will suffer with this but I couldn't do it to the one who loved me so much and boys so young. I was ultimately going to ruin the rest of their lives," Hawe wrote to members of his own family and his wife's family.

'Shame'

In another section, he wrote: "I cannot let them face a life without me and the shame they would have to bear that their father had committed suicide. I have wanted to kill myself for a long time now and I just could not bear the thought of leaving my mess and the anger and rejection that Clodagh and the boys would have to live with forever."

He expressed shame repeatedly, over the effect of his mental state on his family, over his work and over himself.

"I am sorry for all the people who showed me so much love and I never repaid it. I was always a selfish person. Clodagh didn't deserve to have to put up with that. I am so, so sorry. Don't forgive me."

Clinical psychologist Dr Eoin Galavan said that it is common for suicidal people to see themselves as a burden on others and to believe that they would be better off without them. He cited "burdensomeness" as one of the core concepts from research by Florida State University academic Thomas Joiner in the area of murder-suicides.



"Believing you are a burden on those around you, that this burdensomeness is a stable and permanent and unlikely to change, is a potent driver of the desire for death," said Dr Galavan.

"A person may believe they are sparing the victim the pain of enduring the wake of their own suicide . . . Of course, this is a distorted belief, and from the outside looking in this is obvious. However, the suicidal person can believe this with deep conviction."

Warped

The normal desire to protect your children can become warped when someone suffers from psychosis.

"In the case of murder suicide, these everyday beliefs and attitudes are distorted and perverted to the point of killing those whom the person may believe they are caring about," said Dr Galavan.

Brendan Kelly, professor of psychiatry at Trinity College Dublin, says delusional people can often fear something terrible is about to happen to them or their family and to avoid this suffering they have to kill their family.

"It is a very deluded mental state but the alleviation of suffering through killing is obviously a big risk factor and it has been described in many cases of murder-suicide," he said.

Hawe's beliefs, revealed in his notes, that people were looking at him "oddly" over the summer before he committed the murders or that they had a dim view of his work as a teacher seem to have fed his unstable state.

"Murder-suicide can also be based on delusions which are fixed, false belief but delusions are a little more than regular beliefs," said Prof Kelly.

"They usually carry more of a conviction that a person needs to act."

[Hereiam]

That was a hard watch tonite about what went on in that house.. The man clearly was a control freak and got caught at the school doing something he shouldn't and realise he was going to lose this control so ended it all. Why is the school not disclosing to the family what had went on, its all very strange.

[trailer]

That was a hard watch tonite about what went on in that house.. The man clearly was a control freak and got caught at the school doing something he shouldn't and realise he was going to lose this control so ended it all. Why is the school not disclosing to the family what had went on, its all very strange.

He was a cold calculated murderer and nothing more. Sub human. What those children suffered is incomprehensible. Some trying to throw the cloak of depression over this as cover are just as dangerous. Nothing can excuse his actions. Nothing. Society is rightly outraged.

[seafoid]

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/transcript-of-clodagh-hawe-family-interviews-1.3805969

[rosnarun]

That was a hard watch tonite about what went on in that house.. The man clearly was a control freak and got caught at the school doing something he shouldn't and realise he was going to lose this control so ended it all. Why is the school not disclosing to the family what had went on, its all very strange.

He was a cold calculated murderer and nothing more. Sub human. What those children suffered is incomprehensible. Some trying to throw the cloak of depression over this as cover are just as dangerous. Nothing can excuse his actions. Nothing. Society is rightly outraged.

Society or you ?
I always say people have a very Right on attitude to mental health until they are faced with it and the consequences then its all about sins and evil and any will to understand and perhaps prevent a reoccurrence . goes out the window,
out rage and revenge,even on a dead man,  helps no one

[Tony Baloney]

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/transcript-of-clodagh-hawe-family-interviews-1.3805969

That's hard going. You need to be in deep to do that to your own wife and kids.

[seafoid]

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/transcript-of-clodagh-hawe-family-interviews-1.3805969

That's hard going. You need to be in deep to do that to your own wife and kids.

It's even worse reading it now I think .
That family went through so much even before the night

And I said, "please God, don't let anybody else be dead." Her husband and daughter's husband had already died and then there were 5 more in the kitchen.

He never raised a hand to them until the night he killed them.

It is just awful
Deciding to murder your wife and kids because you want to kill yourself has to be the worst.  Taking that control into death is evil.

[J70]

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/transcript-of-clodagh-hawe-family-interviews-1.3805969

That poor family (both the wife and kids and those left behind).

The sheer brutality, literally butchering his wife and kids, and no one knows or is able to find out why?

[seafoid]

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/transcript-of-clodagh-hawe-family-interviews-1.3805969

That poor family (both the wife and kids and those left behind).

The sheer brutality, literally butchering his wife and kids, and no one knows or is able to find out why?

It must have been linked to him losing his social position because of whatever we don't know about and the day before the return to school triggering it