Super 8s

[From the Bunker]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0228/855993-wicklow-boss-backs-strike-over-super-8-proposals/

Wicklow senior football manager Johnny Magee believes that football players should go on strike in response to the so-called Super 8 proposals for Championship football.

The motion to introduce the Super 8 was passed at Congress at the weekend with 76 per cent of the delegates voting to trial the new format for a three-year period.

GPA CEO Dermot Earley spoke out about the new changes on behalf of the inter-county players, stating that there was not proper consultation and that the new format would not help the gulf in standards between the top sides in the country and the weaker counties.

However, the GPA left it late to formulate an opinion on the Super 8 proposals and their views appeared to be sidelined at Congress.

Wicklow boss Magee feels that it's a move that will only benefit the bigger counties and that it will widen the gap further between the haves and the have nots.

"There's only so many times you can kick a dog before it bites back," he said on RTÉ's Game On.

"It suits the so called top teams because it leads to more exposure and advertising, so they're not going to complain about it.

"How are you meant to entice the players to play? By 2 April we [Wicklow] will have played 10 games – that's 10 games in 13 or 14 weeks in the muck of winter football.

"We then played two Championship matches last year on 14 May and on 18 June and then nothing for over five months."

"They missed out on all the summer and where in the fairness and the equality?

"Croke Park are not looking at the so-called weaker teams. To have a game that you love and to be left out in the cold – that's exactly what's happening here."

Johnny Magee‏ @JohnnyMagee06  Feb 25

More Total disrespect&regard 4 club&county players opinion.There is NO game without players! #ALL OUTSTRIKE club&county


The former Dublin defender went even further when speaking to the Irish Examiner and claimed that if he was still a player, he go on strike.

"What do they really expect up in Croke Park?," he asked. "The word strike might sound very strong but at the end of the day the players have voiced their opinion and it's not been listened to. And this is not once, it's happened two years in a row that the GPA has been ignored.

"I feel the players have been disrespected once too often. If I was still a player, my opinion would be that I will go on strike because that's twice now they haven't listened to us."

"I can't see it ending in a nice way. And it's not going to be the fault of players. They feel they've voiced their opinion twice now and been shot down. So where does it end?"

"Something has to change. It keeps going round in circles but at the end of the day it's not going to solve anything."

[AZOffaly]

Sure Wicklow are on strike with years now.

[Rossfan]

Sure Wicklow are on strike with years now.

110 at least!

[Zulu]

Utter nonsense from Johnny. What he is actually saying is why aren't Wicklow playing more games in the summer. Ok so, if the system was set up so that the weaker teams were playing less in winter (Spring I think you'll find in reality) and more in the summer then when do club players play Johnny??? Another thing for Johnny and  Wicklow to consider is trying to bloody improve!!! You'll get more summer games if you do that.

The GPA are talking rubbish and the CPA not much better and then we have the paranoid Dub bashers who see everything as a Dub promotion tool and everyone as a Dub.

People calming down and watching how this works out is the way forward.

[From the Bunker]

Where are u from Zulu anyway?

[Main Street]

Utter nonsense from Johnny. What he is actually saying is why aren't Wicklow playing more games in the summer. Ok so, if the system was set up so that the weaker teams were playing less in winter (Spring I think you'll find in reality) and more in the summer then when do club players play Johnny??? Another thing for Johnny and  Wicklow to consider is trying to bloody improve!!! You'll get more summer games if you do that.

The GPA are talking rubbish and the CPA not much better and then we have the paranoid Dub bashers who see everything as a Dub promotion tool and everyone as a Dub.

People calming down and watching how this works out is the way forward.

Be more respectful to others' opinions and less of that you know the real way forward and all must agree with you, otherwise they're talking rubbish because you are so sure of the way forward. The Wicklow manager has his valid concerns and his valid opinions, just as other people here have their opinions, what we abide by in the end are the rules of congress and observe the test of time.

I am open to the new format but I have my reservations.
The current long drawn out championship format could have been tweaked positivily in different ways re scheduling However the current shortcomings have been used to push this "radical" so called solution which at present is just a questionable theory which might go some way to relieve some of the shortcomings of the current system.
I think the Wicklow manager knows more about how this  can possibly effect his county than you do.

[trileacman]

Utter nonsense from Johnny. What he is actually saying is why aren't Wicklow playing more games in the summer. Ok so, if the system was set up so that the weaker teams were playing less in winter (Spring I think you'll find in reality) and more in the summer then when do club players play Johnny??? Another thing for Johnny and  Wicklow to consider is trying to bloody improve!!! You'll get more summer games if you do that.

The GPA are talking rubbish and the CPA not much better and then we have the paranoid Dub bashers who see everything as a Dub promotion tool and everyone as a Dub.

People calming down and watching how this works out is the way forward.

Be more respectful to others' opinions and less of that you know the real way forward and all must agree with you, otherwise they're talking rubbish because you are so sure of the way forward. The Wicklow manager has his valid concerns and his valid opinions, just as other people here have their opinions, what we abide by in the end are the rules of congress and observe the test of time.

I am open to the new format but I have my reservations.
The current long drawn out championship format could have been tweaked positivily in different ways re scheduling However the current shortcomings have been used to push this "radical" so called solution which at present is just a questionable theory which might go some way to relieve some of the shortcomings of the current system.
I think the Wicklow manager knows more about how this  can possibly effect his county than you do.

Agreed. Most of the rebukes centre on the view that  "he should worry about managing Wicklow".

Blaming a manager for Wicklow lack of success is the just being oblivious to the plight of the weaker counties but of course that's a beloved past time of the elite and top brass.

[Zulu]

Utter nonsense from Johnny. What he is actually saying is why aren't Wicklow playing more games in the summer. Ok so, if the system was set up so that the weaker teams were playing less in winter (Spring I think you'll find in reality) and more in the summer then when do club players play Johnny??? Another thing for Johnny and  Wicklow to consider is trying to bloody improve!!! You'll get more summer games if you do that.

The GPA are talking rubbish and the CPA not much better and then we have the paranoid Dub bashers who see everything as a Dub promotion tool and everyone as a Dub.

People calming down and watching how this works out is the way forward.

Be more respectful to others' opinions and less of that you know the real way forward and all must agree with you, otherwise they're talking rubbish because you are so sure of the way forward. The Wicklow manager has his valid concerns and his valid opinions, just as other people here have their opinions, what we abide by in the end are the rules of congress and observe the test of time.

I am open to the new format but I have my reservations.
The current long drawn out championship format could have been tweaked positivily in different ways re scheduling However the current shortcomings have been used to push this "radical" so called solution which at present is just a questionable theory which might go some way to relieve some of the shortcomings of the current system.
I think the Wicklow manager knows more about how this  can possibly effect his county than you do.

Agreed. Most of the rebukes centre on the view that  "he should worry about managing Wicklow".

Blaming a manager for Wicklow lack of success is the just being oblivious to the plight of the weaker counties but of course that's a beloved past time of the elite and top brass.

Do you mean respectful in the way Johnny is being respectful by suggesting strikes for minor changes in the season?

By the way, if you read what I said then you'd know I don't claim to know the way forward. In fact, I've repeatedly said there is no perfect way forward. However, it's hard to give credit to a guy saying players should strike because Wicklow aren't getting more games in the summer yet offering no concrete alternative.

My objection is to the ridiculous criticism of a fairly minor change and the abuse genuine GAA men like Pauric Duffy have gotten when there hasn't been one genuine alternative workable solution.

The super 8 isn't the solution but is better than what we have and worth having a look at. 

[Captain Obvious]

My objection is to the ridiculous criticism of a fairly minor change and the abuse genuine GAA men like Pauric Duffy have gotten when there hasn't been one genuine alternative workable solution.

The super 8 isn't the solution but is better than what we have and worth having a look at

Duffy genuine 

Zulu it seems you are one of those that wanted a change for the sake of change and couldn't care less what half arse change was made so long as the current format was changed.

[Esmarelda]

I hope Johnny and everyone else sit down sharpish and thrash this out because the debate is becoming very tiresome.

[Main Street]

Utter nonsense from Johnny. What he is actually saying is why aren't Wicklow playing more games in the summer. Ok so, if the system was set up so that the weaker teams were playing less in winter (Spring I think you'll find in reality) and more in the summer then when do club players play Johnny??? Another thing for Johnny and  Wicklow to consider is trying to bloody improve!!! You'll get more summer games if you do that.

The GPA are talking rubbish and the CPA not much better and then we have the paranoid Dub bashers who see everything as a Dub promotion tool and everyone as a Dub.

People calming down and watching how this works out is the way forward.

Be more respectful to others' opinions and less of that you know the real way forward and all must agree with you, otherwise they're talking rubbish because you are so sure of the way forward. The Wicklow manager has his valid concerns and his valid opinions, just as other people here have their opinions, what we abide by in the end are the rules of congress and observe the test of time.

I am open to the new format but I have my reservations.
The current long drawn out championship format could have been tweaked positivily in different ways re scheduling However the current shortcomings have been used to push this "radical" so called solution which at present is just a questionable theory which might go some way to relieve some of the shortcomings of the current system.
I think the Wicklow manager knows more about how this  can possibly effect his county than you do.

Agreed. Most of the rebukes centre on the view that  "he should worry about managing Wicklow".

Blaming a manager for Wicklow lack of success is the just being oblivious to the plight of the weaker counties but of course that's a beloved past time of the elite and top brass.

Do you mean respectful in the way Johnny is being respectful by suggesting strikes for minor changes in the season?

By the way, if you read what I said then you'd know I don't claim to know the way forward. In fact, I've repeatedly said there is no perfect way forward. However, it's hard to give credit to a guy saying players should strike because Wicklow aren't getting more games in the summer yet offering no concrete alternative.

My objection is to the ridiculous criticism of a fairly minor change and the abuse genuine GAA men like Pauric Duffy have gotten when there hasn't been one genuine alternative workable solution.

The super 8 isn't the solution but is better than what we have and worth having a look at.

He said 'that if he was still a player, he'd go on strike'.
And it follows that the CPA also ignored by Congress have not ruled out strike action.

The issue for Johnny is not just about the super 8s  but also about not being listened to and disrespected.
"the players have voiced their opinion and it's not been listened to. And this is not once, it's happened two years in a row that the GPA has been ignored."
"I feel the players have been disrespected once too often. If I was still a player, my opinion would be that I will go on strike because that's twice now they haven't listened to us."

As even any good parent should realise, it's important to listen.

Johnny's opinion on the super 8s is that it's a negative step for the weaker counties which won't address the concerns he experiences. He does not have to offer up an alternative solution in order to point out the negatives of the super 8s for the weaker counties.
If he was asked, he might have done, but he does not have to point out his step forward  in order to have valid concerns about what he perceives as a step backwards for the players of the weaker counties.

You should listen to Johnny and show some respect for his opinions rather than keep repeating "rubbish".

[Esmarelda]

Main Street, I think you're giving Magee to much credit here, possibly to have a go at Zulu, I don't know.

Anyone can give an opinion and not offer an alternative. It doesn't lead to much. "I think the Super 8 is brilliant and that's all that I have to say on the matter."

What players weren't listened to? As far as I can see, from the limited amount of information out there, the intercounty players got the retention of the provincials and the inclusion of everyone in the race for Sam, which is the feedback received last summer. The clubs of every county will have their county players back earlier than last year. I know this isn't specifically about the Super 8, but Motion 4 & 5 were part of the overall proposal along with the Super 8 so I think all changes to the intercounty championship should be looked at when deciding on whether things have improved. I think the CPA was too late coming to the table for this year, considering how long it took for the GPA to be recognised.

We've heard in the past week of how badly the GPA sought to hear their members' views on this and the reasons given for the vote against the Super 8 was that it didn't do enough for the weaker counties.  Fine, that's what it didn't do. But again, what was it that the weaker counties wanted? What was Duffy supposed to do? Leave it as it is or have a guess at what the weaker counties wanted? We also heard of one player not voting at all as the GPA hadn't explained the proposal well enough. I'd be interested t see the specific split of GPA members' votes.

I'm delighted with what was passed with the two other motions. I think the Super 8 could be interesting but will fail with the potential for dead rubber games.

[Fuzzman]

I would imagine the weaker counties much preferred the current system where they can go on a good run of matches through the qualifiers, playing teams of similar levels and then have a crack at a provincial winner in Croke Park. Tipperary's win over Galway last year can be compared to Wexford and Fermanagh making it to the AI semi finals in previous years.

Yes teams like that can still make it to the last 8 but they have a much lesser chance now of coming out of a group of 4 with 2 provincial winners and another qualifier. If Tipperary were in a group with say Galway, Monaghan and Westmeath they might fancy their chances but as been said before it's much harder to beat 2 provincial winners, especially one at their home venue.

I'm a little confused about some people saying that the clubs will be without their county players for longer now.
Is this correct as I thought they will all be finished 1 month earlier?

[BennyHarp]

I would imagine the weaker counties much preferred the current system where they can go on a good run of matches through the qualifiers, playing teams of similar levels and then have a crack at a provincial winner in Croke Park. Tipperary's win over Galway last year can be compared to Wexford and Fermanagh making it to the AI semi finals in previous years.

Yes teams like that can still make it to the last 8 but they have a much lesser chance now of coming out of a group of 4 with 2 provincial winners and another qualifier. If Tipperary were in a group with say Galway, Monaghan and Westmeath they might fancy their chances but as been said before it's much harder to beat 2 provincial winners, especially one at their home venue.

I'm a little confused about some people saying that the clubs will be without their county players for longer now.
Is this correct as I thought they will all be finished 1 month earlier?

Would so called weaker teams who are seriously looking to develop not embrace the super 8 and have three big games rather than one?

[Fuzzman]

That's one way of looking at it Benny from a neutral who would think it could benefit them long term in their progress but I suppose it's a lot more rewarding when they beat a big team in a knock out game and progress to an AI semi.

Think back to 2008 when Tyrone beat Dublin in the quarterfinal in the rain. Can you imagine if he had won that game but then had to meet them again in the semi final or final. It's hard to spring a surprise twice, especially for a smaller county. If Tipp had to play Galway again I wonder would they have beaten them again.