Leinster Championship 2020

[Ed Ricketts]

If Dublin win 15 or 20 in a row and are routinely winning All-Ireland finals by 10-15 points plus, we might talk then about a split

The concept is valid, then. We're now just haggling over the timing. This is progress.

I don't know how there cannot be real hope of "catching out" Dublin once in a while given their five in a row All-Ireland finals had margins of 3, 0 (1), 1, 6 and 0 (6) points

Great for Kerry and for Mayo's best side ever. They can get within a few points - but still lose.

Not so good for the rest of the country. The intercounty championship used to have more going for it than the hope of catching out a goliath on an off day once or twice a decade.

Dublin aren't going to win 15 or 20 in row

If you say so...

We'll be 40% of the way to 15 in a few weeks time.

And they're getting better.

[sid waddell]

Dublin U21/U20 have won 9 Leinster titles in the last 12 years compared to 7 in the previous 45 years.

They've gone on to win 5 All-Irelands [and are in the final again this year] in those 12 years, having won 1 All-Ireland in the previous 45 years of the competition.

Anyone who goes on about a golden generation of players is talking absolute codswallop, unless they can explain how one golden generation managed to win 5[and possibly 6] U21/U20 over the span of 12 years.

That's still less than Cork's six All-Ireland under-21 football titles in the 1980s

Galway won four between 2002 and 2013

Limerick won three u-21 titles in hurling from 2000 to 2002

Clare won four from 2009 to 2014

The latter three didn't capitalise hugely off those, only Clare got one senior title in 2013

It's an inexact science

Somebody mentioned ladies' football

Cork won 11 titles from 12 from 2005 to 2016 - I presume people were calling for Cork to be split up

[Angelo]

In representative sport, the odds will generally be against one team because representative sport has inherent unfairness built into it

When England played Croatia in 2016, the odds were stacked against Croatia with their population of 3 or 4 million people against England's 55 million - in the the quarter-final they overcame Russia, population 144 million

This fact about representative sport being inherently unfair seems lost on people - it always was unfair, it always will be

If you want fairness, the logical outcome is 10 or 12 regional teams based on roughly equal population - but that would mean the end of most county teams and a glorious new era of the BMW Bandits franchise, representing Westmeath, Longford, Roscommon, Leitrim and Cavan, and the West Coast Spreadeagles franchise, representing Galway, Mayo and Clare

Ah here, we're not thick.

Everyone accepted the consequences of the imbalances in the county structure. Dublin averaged an AI every 5 or 6 years for the first 120 years of the GAA. That was fine, because other counties could still have their odd day in the sun.

But 7 out of 9, soon to be 8 from 10, is a problem. The consequence of this sort of dominance is hopelessness.

Smaller teams don't need to match the output of the big boys, we all know the demographics won't allow it. But it's important to feel that there is real hope of catching them out every once in a while. That hope is now dead across most of the country. Dublin have set the bar far beyond what will ever be possible for most counties, and people in those counties know it.

But Dublin's dominance is not unprecendented

It has existed before

If Dublin win 15 or 20 in a row and are routinely winning All-Ireland finals by 10-15 points plus, we might talk then about a split

But this is not the case

I don't know how there cannot be real hope of "catching out" Dublin once in a while given their five in a row All-Ireland finals had margins of 3, 0 (1), 1, 6 and 0 (6) points

Defending the indefensible with falsehoods as usual.

No county had won 10 Leinster Football titles on trot before - unprecedented.
14 of 15 Leinster Football titles - unprecedented
5 All Ireland titles on the trot - unprecedented


As much as you dislike the truth, maybe try and stick with it next time.

You might address my point about the Scottish Premier League and Serie A

You're a big fan of both these leagues - yet Celtic and Juventus have consistently strolled to facile league titles in the same time that Dublin have been dominating Leinster

Both are on nine in a row now and it seems to be a huge to deal to you that Celtic get that vital tenth title in a row

This simply doesn't tally with what you say about Dublin

If dominance by one team was such a turn off for you, you'd have no interest in those leagues - but you do

You're now comparing professional sports with ones that are supposedly amateur.

That's your problem here with defending the indefensible, you don't have enough smarts or integrity to debate the issue, you have to fabricate lies and spin to deflect.

We know quite clearly now that you are incapable of putting up a solid defence without insulting the intelligence of all the posters on this board.

You told us it was not unprecedented at intercounty football level, when the facts prove you wrong you then try to deflect to other sports. The issue here is Dublin GAA and no amount of spoofing on Scottish football or Italian football will detract us from that.

[seafoid]

I don't think the public are ready for 7 in a row.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/kevin-mcstay-if-dublin-win-six-will-the-gaa-see-it-as-a-problem-1.4020060

"If Dublin win six, then the thing moves from historic to overwhelming. In public, Dublin talk about humility and community and family. And they mean it. Their public persona is that it is a huge privilege to wear that jersey. And it is. But when they get down to business, it is a hugely professional structure driven by people whose specialise in excellence.
So for the rest of the GAA family, the sight of six-in-a-row will be a bridge too far. They will begin to insist on intervention. Nobody within the official GAA has stepped out yet and said: we acknowledge that this is a problem
Canavan has said we have to accept that this is the new reality. He is right. But the bigger picture is that the other counties just can't match it."

Dublin will keep on hoovering up titles as long as they are allowed to.
The core problem is the GAA who let them.

[seafoid]

Dublin U21/U20 have won 9 Leinster titles in the last 12 years compared to 7 in the previous 45 years.

They've gone on to win 5 All-Irelands [and are in the final again this year] in those 12 years, having won 1 All-Ireland in the previous 45 years of the competition.

Anyone who goes on about a golden generation of players is talking absolute codswallop, unless they can explain how one golden generation managed to win 5[and possibly 6] U21/U20 over the span of 12 years.

That's still less than Cork's six All-Ireland under-21 football titles in the 1980s

Galway won four between 2002 and 2013

Limerick won three u-21 titles in hurling from 2000 to 2002

Clare won four from 2009 to 2014

The latter three didn't capitalise hugely off those, only Clare got one senior title in 2013

It's an inexact science

Somebody mentioned ladies' football

Cork won 11 titles from 12 from 2005 to 2016 - I presume people were calling for Cork to be split up

Are RTE viewers going to watch all Ireland finals beyond 6 in a row ?
Are aserial all Ireland hammerings > 8 points  to 2030 and beyond likely to be of interest to neutrals ?
The GAA has destoyed its core product.  #Facepalm

As David Halberstam said of Robert McNamara in his book "the Best and the Brightest". - ": "they were brilliant, and they were fools."

[caprea]

Dublin U21/U20 have won 9 Leinster titles in the last 12 years compared to 7 in the previous 45 years.

They've gone on to win 5 All-Irelands [and are in the final again this year] in those 12 years, having won 1 All-Ireland in the previous 45 years of the competition.

Anyone who goes on about a golden generation of players is talking absolute codswallop, unless they can explain how one golden generation managed to win 5[and possibly 6] U21/U20 over the span of 12 years.

That's still less than Cork's six All-Ireland under-21 football titles in the 1980s

Galway won four between 2002 and 2013

Limerick won three u-21 titles in hurling from 2000 to 2002

Clare won four from 2009 to 2014

The latter three didn't capitalise hugely off those, only Clare got one senior title in 2013

It's an inexact science

Somebody mentioned ladies' football

Cork won 11 titles from 12 from 2005 to 2016 - I presume people were calling for Cork to be split up

Are RTE viewers going to watch all Ireland finals beyond 6 in a row ?
Are aserial all Ireland hammerings > 8 points  to 2030 and beyond likely to be of interest to neutrals ?
The GAA has destoyed its core product.  #Facepalm

As David Halberstam said of Robert McNamara in his book "the Best and the Brightest". - ": "they were brilliant, and they were fools."

It's possible this would have happened without the money. Dublin are Barcelona, Milan, Munich. The rest are IFK Gothenburg, Basel, Bruges.

History will probably say it was the money but I'm not so sure.

As I've probably said before, Dublins population INCREASE since 1990 is larger than the present TOTAL population of Kildare or Meath.

Demographics.

[Eire90]

in the 90s  how many teams could u say had a legitimate chance of winning all ireland compared to now

[sid waddell]

In representative sport, the odds will generally be against one team because representative sport has inherent unfairness built into it

When England played Croatia in 2016, the odds were stacked against Croatia with their population of 3 or 4 million people against England's 55 million - in the the quarter-final they overcame Russia, population 144 million

This fact about representative sport being inherently unfair seems lost on people - it always was unfair, it always will be

If you want fairness, the logical outcome is 10 or 12 regional teams based on roughly equal population - but that would mean the end of most county teams and a glorious new era of the BMW Bandits franchise, representing Westmeath, Longford, Roscommon, Leitrim and Cavan, and the West Coast Spreadeagles franchise, representing Galway, Mayo and Clare

Ah here, we're not thick.

Everyone accepted the consequences of the imbalances in the county structure. Dublin averaged an AI every 5 or 6 years for the first 120 years of the GAA. That was fine, because other counties could still have their odd day in the sun.

But 7 out of 9, soon to be 8 from 10, is a problem. The consequence of this sort of dominance is hopelessness.

Smaller teams don't need to match the output of the big boys, we all know the demographics won't allow it. But it's important to feel that there is real hope of catching them out every once in a while. That hope is now dead across most of the country. Dublin have set the bar far beyond what will ever be possible for most counties, and people in those counties know it.

But Dublin's dominance is not unprecendented

It has existed before

If Dublin win 15 or 20 in a row and are routinely winning All-Ireland finals by 10-15 points plus, we might talk then about a split

But this is not the case

I don't know how there cannot be real hope of "catching out" Dublin once in a while given their five in a row All-Ireland finals had margins of 3, 0 (1), 1, 6 and 0 (6) points

Defending the indefensible with falsehoods as usual.

No county had won 10 Leinster Football titles on trot before - unprecedented.
14 of 15 Leinster Football titles - unprecedented
5 All Ireland titles on the trot - unprecedented


As much as you dislike the truth, maybe try and stick with it next time.

You might address my point about the Scottish Premier League and Serie A

You're a big fan of both these leagues - yet Celtic and Juventus have consistently strolled to facile league titles in the same time that Dublin have been dominating Leinster

Both are on nine in a row now and it seems to be a huge to deal to you that Celtic get that vital tenth title in a row

This simply doesn't tally with what you say about Dublin

If dominance by one team was such a turn off for you, you'd have no interest in those leagues - but you do

You're now comparing professional sports with ones that are supposedly amateur.

That's your problem here with defending the indefensible, you don't have enough smarts or integrity to debate the issue, you have to fabricate lies and spin to deflect.

We know quite clearly now that you are incapable of putting up a solid defence without insulting the intelligence of all the posters on this board.

You told us it was not unprecedented at intercounty football level, when the facts prove you wrong you then try to deflect to other sports. The issue here is Dublin GAA and no amount of spoofing on Scottish football or Italian football will detract us from that.

Whether sports are amateur or professional is totally irrelevant

In the Scottish Premier League and Serie A, teams have won nine in a row and yet you are huge fans of these leagues and desperate for Celtic to win 10 in a row against the might of Caley Thistle and Hamilton Accies, and, apparently, a club which has only existed since 2012 and has never won anything of note - at least say Celtic supporters

This does not compute

[sid waddell]

Dublin U21/U20 have won 9 Leinster titles in the last 12 years compared to 7 in the previous 45 years.

They've gone on to win 5 All-Irelands [and are in the final again this year] in those 12 years, having won 1 All-Ireland in the previous 45 years of the competition.

Anyone who goes on about a golden generation of players is talking absolute codswallop, unless they can explain how one golden generation managed to win 5[and possibly 6] U21/U20 over the span of 12 years.

That's still less than Cork's six All-Ireland under-21 football titles in the 1980s

Galway won four between 2002 and 2013

Limerick won three u-21 titles in hurling from 2000 to 2002

Clare won four from 2009 to 2014

The latter three didn't capitalise hugely off those, only Clare got one senior title in 2013

It's an inexact science

Somebody mentioned ladies' football

Cork won 11 titles from 12 from 2005 to 2016 - I presume people were calling for Cork to be split up

Are RTE viewers going to watch all Ireland finals beyond 6 in a row ?
Are aserial all Ireland hammerings > 8 points  to 2030 and beyond likely to be of interest to neutrals ?
The GAA has destoyed its core product.  #Facepalm

As David Halberstam said of Robert McNamara in his book "the Best and the Brightest". - ": "they were brilliant, and they were fools."

TG4's viewing figures and the spectators at Croke Park increased hugely while Cork were winning 11 of 12 ladies' All-Irelands

I guess you could say they were good for the game

[sid waddell]

Dublin U21/U20 have won 9 Leinster titles in the last 12 years compared to 7 in the previous 45 years.

They've gone on to win 5 All-Irelands [and are in the final again this year] in those 12 years, having won 1 All-Ireland in the previous 45 years of the competition.

Anyone who goes on about a golden generation of players is talking absolute codswallop, unless they can explain how one golden generation managed to win 5[and possibly 6] U21/U20 over the span of 12 years.

That's still less than Cork's six All-Ireland under-21 football titles in the 1980s

Galway won four between 2002 and 2013

Limerick won three u-21 titles in hurling from 2000 to 2002

Clare won four from 2009 to 2014

The latter three didn't capitalise hugely off those, only Clare got one senior title in 2013

It's an inexact science

Somebody mentioned ladies' football

Cork won 11 titles from 12 from 2005 to 2016 - I presume people were calling for Cork to be split up

Are RTE viewers going to watch all Ireland finals beyond 6 in a row ?
Are aserial all Ireland hammerings > 8 points  to 2030 and beyond likely to be of interest to neutrals ?
The GAA has destoyed its core product.  #Facepalm

As David Halberstam said of Robert McNamara in his book "the Best and the Brightest". - ": "they were brilliant, and they were fools."

It's possible this would have happened without the money. Dublin are Barcelona, Milan, Munich. The rest are IFK Gothenburg, Basel, Bruges.

History will probably say it was the money but I'm not so sure.

As I've probably said before, Dublins population INCREASE since 1990 is larger than the present TOTAL population of Kildare or Meath.

Demographics.

How many of this population increase are eligible to play for Dublin?

I don't think Wayne from Basildon who is living in Dublin and fixing Sky boxes for a living, or Deepak from Mohali who is fixing computers, or Frida from Odense who is at Google, or Jasmine from Quezon City who is working as a child minder, or Ricardo from Belo Horizonte who is Deliverooing will make much of a difference to Dublin's prospects

Maybe their kids will - or maybe their kids will make a difference to the prospects of Meath or Kildare

[BennyCake]

in the 90s  how many teams could u say had a legitimate chance of winning all ireland compared to now

8 different winners.
11 different finalists.

The highest winning margin I believe was 4 points, so 11 teams had a legitimate chance.

Plus, Roscommon, Offaly, Clare, Cavan got to semi finals, losing only by a few points each.

[caprea]

Dublin U21/U20 have won 9 Leinster titles in the last 12 years compared to 7 in the previous 45 years.

They've gone on to win 5 All-Irelands [and are in the final again this year] in those 12 years, having won 1 All-Ireland in the previous 45 years of the competition.

Anyone who goes on about a golden generation of players is talking absolute codswallop, unless they can explain how one golden generation managed to win 5[and possibly 6] U21/U20 over the span of 12 years.

That's still less than Cork's six All-Ireland under-21 football titles in the 1980s

Galway won four between 2002 and 2013

Limerick won three u-21 titles in hurling from 2000 to 2002

Clare won four from 2009 to 2014

The latter three didn't capitalise hugely off those, only Clare got one senior title in 2013

It's an inexact science

Somebody mentioned ladies' football

Cork won 11 titles from 12 from 2005 to 2016 - I presume people were calling for Cork to be split up

Are RTE viewers going to watch all Ireland finals beyond 6 in a row ?
Are aserial all Ireland hammerings > 8 points  to 2030 and beyond likely to be of interest to neutrals ?
The GAA has destoyed its core product.  #Facepalm

As David Halberstam said of Robert McNamara in his book "the Best and the Brightest". - ": "they were brilliant, and they were fools."

It's possible this would have happened without the money. Dublin are Barcelona, Milan, Munich. The rest are IFK Gothenburg, Basel, Bruges.

History will probably say it was the money but I'm not so sure.

As I've probably said before, Dublins population INCREASE since 1990 is larger than the present TOTAL population of Kildare or Meath.

Demographics.

How many of this population increase are eligible to play for Dublin?

I don't think Wayne from Basildon who is living in Dublin and fixing Sky boxes for a living, or Deepak from Mohali who is fixing computers, or Frida from Odense who is at Google, or Jasmine from Quezon City who is working as a child minder, or Ricardo from Belo Horizonte who is Deliverooing will make much of a difference to Dublin's prospects

Maybe their kids will - or maybe their kids will make a difference to the prospects of Meath or Kildare

But of course Sid. It's only Dublin where the new population increase is all foreign immigrants. You'll never see a black person or polish person in Kildare. We actually only allow people in who can trace their lineage to an all Ireland winner.

Key point.. Dublins population INCREASE since 1990 is larger than the present TOTAL population of Kildare or Meath.

That's the crux of the domination. The funding has a affect but is largely a red herring.

Culchies moving to Dublins suburbs after getting work in Dublin and taking their traditions of GAA with them.

It's economic more than sport.

[restorepride]

in the 90s  how many teams could u say had a legitimate chance of winning all ireland compared to now

8 different winners.
11 different finalists.

The highest winning margin I believe was 4 points, so 11 teams had a legitimate chance.

Plus, Roscommon, Offaly, Clare, Cavan got to semi finals, losing only by a few points each.

With no back door and no Super 8s - I could live with that again.

[Rossfan]

Dream on....
Sadly 2020s will be Dublin 9
Kerry 1

[Angelo]

In representative sport, the odds will generally be against one team because representative sport has inherent unfairness built into it

When England played Croatia in 2016, the odds were stacked against Croatia with their population of 3 or 4 million people against England's 55 million - in the the quarter-final they overcame Russia, population 144 million

This fact about representative sport being inherently unfair seems lost on people - it always was unfair, it always will be

If you want fairness, the logical outcome is 10 or 12 regional teams based on roughly equal population - but that would mean the end of most county teams and a glorious new era of the BMW Bandits franchise, representing Westmeath, Longford, Roscommon, Leitrim and Cavan, and the West Coast Spreadeagles franchise, representing Galway, Mayo and Clare

Ah here, we're not thick.

Everyone accepted the consequences of the imbalances in the county structure. Dublin averaged an AI every 5 or 6 years for the first 120 years of the GAA. That was fine, because other counties could still have their odd day in the sun.

But 7 out of 9, soon to be 8 from 10, is a problem. The consequence of this sort of dominance is hopelessness.

Smaller teams don't need to match the output of the big boys, we all know the demographics won't allow it. But it's important to feel that there is real hope of catching them out every once in a while. That hope is now dead across most of the country. Dublin have set the bar far beyond what will ever be possible for most counties, and people in those counties know it.

But Dublin's dominance is not unprecendented

It has existed before

If Dublin win 15 or 20 in a row and are routinely winning All-Ireland finals by 10-15 points plus, we might talk then about a split

But this is not the case

I don't know how there cannot be real hope of "catching out" Dublin once in a while given their five in a row All-Ireland finals had margins of 3, 0 (1), 1, 6 and 0 (6) points

Defending the indefensible with falsehoods as usual.

No county had won 10 Leinster Football titles on trot before - unprecedented.
14 of 15 Leinster Football titles - unprecedented
5 All Ireland titles on the trot - unprecedented


As much as you dislike the truth, maybe try and stick with it next time.

You might address my point about the Scottish Premier League and Serie A

You're a big fan of both these leagues - yet Celtic and Juventus have consistently strolled to facile league titles in the same time that Dublin have been dominating Leinster

Both are on nine in a row now and it seems to be a huge to deal to you that Celtic get that vital tenth title in a row

This simply doesn't tally with what you say about Dublin

If dominance by one team was such a turn off for you, you'd have no interest in those leagues - but you do

You're now comparing professional sports with ones that are supposedly amateur.

That's your problem here with defending the indefensible, you don't have enough smarts or integrity to debate the issue, you have to fabricate lies and spin to deflect.

We know quite clearly now that you are incapable of putting up a solid defence without insulting the intelligence of all the posters on this board.

You told us it was not unprecedented at intercounty football level, when the facts prove you wrong you then try to deflect to other sports. The issue here is Dublin GAA and no amount of spoofing on Scottish football or Italian football will detract us from that.

Whether sports are amateur or professional is totally irrelevant

In the Scottish Premier League and Serie A, teams have won nine in a row and yet you are huge fans of these leagues and desperate for Celtic to win 10 in a row against the might of Caley Thistle and Hamilton Accies, and, apparently, a club which has only existed since 2012 and has never won anything of note - at least say Celtic supporters

This does not compute

As was pre-empted. You're trying to muddy the waters and deflect. This isn't a thread about association football, Celtic or Scottish football.

Why are you doing this? Because you support capitalist greed.