Leinster Championship 2020

[BennyCake]

Don't forget the women Dublin footballers. Sure they're on for 4 in a row this year.

But I suppose that's also down to a once in a generation group of lassies (can I still say lassies these days?)

[sid waddell]

In representative sport, the odds will generally be against one team because representative sport has inherent unfairness built into it

When England played Croatia in 2016, the odds were stacked against Croatia with their population of 3 or 4 million people against England's 55 million - in the the quarter-final they overcame Russia, population 144 million

This fact about representative sport being inherently unfair seems lost on people - it always was unfair, it always will be

If you want fairness, the logical outcome is 10 or 12 regional teams based on roughly equal population - but that would mean the end of most county teams and a glorious new era of the BMW Bandits franchise, representing Westmeath, Longford, Roscommon, Leitrim and Cavan, and the West Coast Spreadeagles franchise, representing Galway, Mayo and Clare

Ah here, we're not thick.

Everyone accepted the consequences of the imbalances in the county structure. Dublin averaged an AI every 5 or 6 years for the first 120 years of the GAA. That was fine, because other counties could still have their odd day in the sun.

But 7 out of 9, soon to be 8 from 10, is a problem. The consequence of this sort of dominance is hopelessness.

Smaller teams don't need to match the output of the big boys, we all know the demographics won't allow it. But it's important to feel that there is real hope of catching them out every once in a while. That hope is now dead across most of the country. Dublin have set the bar far beyond what will ever be possible for most counties, and people in those counties know it.

But Dublin's dominance is not unprecendented

It has existed before

If Dublin win 15 or 20 in a row and are routinely winning All-Ireland finals by 10-15 points plus, we might talk then about a split

But this is not the case

I don't know how there cannot be real hope of "catching out" Dublin once in a while given their five in a row All-Ireland finals had margins of 3, 0 (1), 1, 6 and 0 (6) points

[twohands!!!]

Don't forget the women Dublin footballers. Sure they're on for 4 in a row this year.

But I suppose that's also down to a once in a generation group of lassies (can I still say lassies these days?)

The U21 hurlers have also won 4 Leinster titles since 2007. In the 43 years prior to 2007 they had won 2.
The minor hurlers have won 5 Leinster titles since 2007. In the 79 year prior to 2007 they had won 11.

[sid waddell]

Fair enough, Sid. I don't disagree with any of that.
However, my memory is getting flaky I know but in that replay Dublin pulled ahead in the last quarter or so. Mayo players were out on their feet at the end. I'd say the same happened in last year's final replay also. C!ifford in particular was dragged all over the place by his marker and failed to score in the last 20 minutes. Dublin may may have had a lucky escape in the drawn game but we're well-prepared for the next one and they can't be blamed for that.
Throughout the years when Mayo were serious contenders, Dublin got the lucky breaks more than once but Mayo never complained. That is what to expect at the business end in intercounty football. Moaning about Dublin's advantages will lead nowhere. At the same time, things cannot continue as they are.
If neither Kerry nor Mayo could slug it out to the end with Dublin, then I can't see any other team in the land being able to do so either.
In a proverbial nutshell, the pride in the parish and the loyalty to one's county has been the GAA's greatest strength down the years but there comes a time to let go and, imo, that time has arrived.

There's a right conundrum here: Dublin cannot survive if the county is divided- there aren't enough clubs in some of the new counties to allow them to stay viable and yet, if things continue as they are, the GAA will face financial meltdown.
A rock and a hard place comes to mind.

Players are generally out on their feet at the end of All-Ireland semi-final replays - Dublin were out on their feet at the end of the drawn 2015 semi-final

Events change matches - if Hennelly doesn't take a bad kickout and Mayo have an extra covering defender, Brogan probably doesn't get his foot on the end of a loose ball and score a goal - then McMahon probably doesn't slap the ball out of Hennelly's arms for another goal - and McManamon probably doesn't have the space to score a third goal, as Mayo probably aren't desperately pushing up into attack

In the 2019 replay against Kerry, the first half was even - the game changed because Murchan went through from the restart - and that goal was pretty dubious in terms of steps - had it been ruled out, as it probably should have been, you have a different game

If Kerry take one of the goal chances they had, you also have a different game

Clifford was marked like a hawk because Dublin know what he do - that's football

I think Mayo are probably not as strong as 2016 and 2017 now, but it's also arguable as to whether Dublin are better, and as I said Dublin do stand to lose eight or nine years really experienced, top performers, the real backbone of their success, over the next year or two, and the younger generation of leaders - Fenton, Kilkenny, Small etc. are no longer young either - they're 27, pushing 28

Kilkenny hurlers were thought invincible too

[Ed Ricketts]

If Dublin win 15 or 20 in a row and are routinely winning All-Ireland finals by 10-15 points plus, we might talk then about a split

The concept is valid, then. We're now just haggling over the timing. This is progress.

I don't know how there cannot be real hope of "catching out" Dublin once in a while given their five in a row All-Ireland finals had margins of 3, 0 (1), 1, 6 and 0 (6) points

Great for Kerry and for Mayo's best side ever. They can get within a few points - but still lose.

Not so good for the rest of the country. The intercounty championship used to have more going for it than the hope of catching out a goliath on an off day once or twice a decade.

[twohands!!!]

If Dublin win 15 or 20 in a row and are routinely winning All-Ireland finals by 10-15 points plus, we might talk then about a split

Dublin GAA and their supporters would do well to remember that it will be the other 31 counties deciding their fate.

I can definitely see a scenario where the rest of the GAA give Dublin the option of being split in 5/6/7/8 and if they don't accept the split being kicked out of the senior championsip.

[sid waddell]

Don't forget the women Dublin footballers. Sure they're on for 4 in a row this year.

But I suppose that's also down to a once in a generation group of lassies (can I still say lassies these days?)

The U21 hurlers have also won 4 Leinster titles since 2007. In the 43 years prior to 2007 they had won 2.
The minor hurlers have won 5 Leinster titles since 2007. In the 79 year prior to 2007 they had won 11.

And one Leinster senior title is their lot, with another one not looking to be on the horizon

[sid waddell]

If Dublin win 15 or 20 in a row and are routinely winning All-Ireland finals by 10-15 points plus, we might talk then about a split

Dublin GAA and their supporters would do well to remember that it will be the other 31 counties deciding their fate.

I can definitely see a scenario where the rest of the GAA give Dublin the option of being split in 5/6/7/8 and if they don't accept the split being kicked out of the senior championsip.

You've obviously thought very deeply about this

[Angelo]

In representative sport, the odds will generally be against one team because representative sport has inherent unfairness built into it

When England played Croatia in 2016, the odds were stacked against Croatia with their population of 3 or 4 million people against England's 55 million - in the the quarter-final they overcame Russia, population 144 million

This fact about representative sport being inherently unfair seems lost on people - it always was unfair, it always will be

If you want fairness, the logical outcome is 10 or 12 regional teams based on roughly equal population - but that would mean the end of most county teams and a glorious new era of the BMW Bandits franchise, representing Westmeath, Longford, Roscommon, Leitrim and Cavan, and the West Coast Spreadeagles franchise, representing Galway, Mayo and Clare

Ah here, we're not thick.

Everyone accepted the consequences of the imbalances in the county structure. Dublin averaged an AI every 5 or 6 years for the first 120 years of the GAA. That was fine, because other counties could still have their odd day in the sun.

But 7 out of 9, soon to be 8 from 10, is a problem. The consequence of this sort of dominance is hopelessness.

Smaller teams don't need to match the output of the big boys, we all know the demographics won't allow it. But it's important to feel that there is real hope of catching them out every once in a while. That hope is now dead across most of the country. Dublin have set the bar far beyond what will ever be possible for most counties, and people in those counties know it.

But Dublin's dominance is not unprecendented

It has existed before

If Dublin win 15 or 20 in a row and are routinely winning All-Ireland finals by 10-15 points plus, we might talk then about a split

But this is not the case

I don't know how there cannot be real hope of "catching out" Dublin once in a while given their five in a row All-Ireland finals had margins of 3, 0 (1), 1, 6 and 0 (6) points

Defending the indefensible with falsehoods as usual.

No county had won 10 Leinster Football titles on trot before - unprecedented.
14 of 15 Leinster Football titles - unprecedented
5 All Ireland titles on the trot - unprecedented


As much as you dislike the truth, maybe try and stick with it next time.

[sid waddell]

If Dublin win 15 or 20 in a row and are routinely winning All-Ireland finals by 10-15 points plus, we might talk then about a split

The concept is valid, then. We're now just haggling over the timing. This is progress.

I don't know how there cannot be real hope of "catching out" Dublin once in a while given their five in a row All-Ireland finals had margins of 3, 0 (1), 1, 6 and 0 (6) points

Great for Kerry and for Mayo's best side ever. They can get within a few points - but still lose.

Not so good for the rest of the country. The intercounty championship used to have more going for it than the hope of catching out a goliath on an off day once or twice a decade.

Dublin aren't going to win 15 or 20 in row

The historical competitiveness of the inter-county championships has also been quite overstated - I think this is because a lot of posters here were young in the 1990s and remember that era

But for the previous two decades, Ulster and Connacht might as well not have existed, they were cannon fodder

Kerry galloped ahead again from 2000 on with really only Tyrone and to a lesser extent Armagh challenging them on a consistent basis

There has rarely been more than three or four genuine contenders in a year

[twohands!!!]

Don't forget the women Dublin footballers. Sure they're on for 4 in a row this year.

But I suppose that's also down to a once in a generation group of lassies (can I still say lassies these days?)

The U21 hurlers have also won 4 Leinster titles since 2007. In the 43 years prior to 2007 they had won 2.
The minor hurlers have won 5 Leinster titles since 2007. In the 79 year prior to 2007 they had won 11.

And one Leinster senior title is their lot, with another one not looking to be on the horizon

The previous Leinster senior title Dublin won was in 1961. [There was no Galway in Leinster back then]

There's also the first and second All-Ireland club hurling titles won by Cuala.

Dublin hurling has never been stronger and with the huge underage numbers being tutored by the 70 coaches employed by Dublin GAA it's only a matter of time before Dublin starts picking up more hurling titles.

[sid waddell]

In representative sport, the odds will generally be against one team because representative sport has inherent unfairness built into it

When England played Croatia in 2016, the odds were stacked against Croatia with their population of 3 or 4 million people against England's 55 million - in the the quarter-final they overcame Russia, population 144 million

This fact about representative sport being inherently unfair seems lost on people - it always was unfair, it always will be

If you want fairness, the logical outcome is 10 or 12 regional teams based on roughly equal population - but that would mean the end of most county teams and a glorious new era of the BMW Bandits franchise, representing Westmeath, Longford, Roscommon, Leitrim and Cavan, and the West Coast Spreadeagles franchise, representing Galway, Mayo and Clare

Ah here, we're not thick.

Everyone accepted the consequences of the imbalances in the county structure. Dublin averaged an AI every 5 or 6 years for the first 120 years of the GAA. That was fine, because other counties could still have their odd day in the sun.

But 7 out of 9, soon to be 8 from 10, is a problem. The consequence of this sort of dominance is hopelessness.

Smaller teams don't need to match the output of the big boys, we all know the demographics won't allow it. But it's important to feel that there is real hope of catching them out every once in a while. That hope is now dead across most of the country. Dublin have set the bar far beyond what will ever be possible for most counties, and people in those counties know it.

But Dublin's dominance is not unprecendented

It has existed before

If Dublin win 15 or 20 in a row and are routinely winning All-Ireland finals by 10-15 points plus, we might talk then about a split

But this is not the case

I don't know how there cannot be real hope of "catching out" Dublin once in a while given their five in a row All-Ireland finals had margins of 3, 0 (1), 1, 6 and 0 (6) points

Defending the indefensible with falsehoods as usual.

No county had won 10 Leinster Football titles on trot before - unprecedented.
14 of 15 Leinster Football titles - unprecedented
5 All Ireland titles on the trot - unprecedented


As much as you dislike the truth, maybe try and stick with it next time.

You might address my point about the Scottish Premier League and Serie A

You're a big fan of both these leagues - yet Celtic and Juventus have consistently strolled to facile league titles in the same time that Dublin have been dominating Leinster

Both are on nine in a row now and it seems to be a huge to deal to you that Celtic get that vital tenth title in a row

This simply doesn't tally with what you say about Dublin

If dominance by one team was such a turn off for you, you'd have no interest in those leagues - but you do

[twohands!!!]

If Dublin win 15 or 20 in a row and are routinely winning All-Ireland finals by 10-15 points plus, we might talk then about a split

Dublin GAA and their supporters would do well to remember that it will be the other 31 counties deciding their fate.

I can definitely see a scenario where the rest of the GAA give Dublin the option of being split in 5/6/7/8 and if they don't accept the split being kicked out of the senior championsip.

You've obviously thought very deeply about this

Because I believe the current structure is wholly unfair and massively damaging to the GAA.

[sid waddell]

Don't forget the women Dublin footballers. Sure they're on for 4 in a row this year.

But I suppose that's also down to a once in a generation group of lassies (can I still say lassies these days?)

The U21 hurlers have also won 4 Leinster titles since 2007. In the 43 years prior to 2007 they had won 2.
The minor hurlers have won 5 Leinster titles since 2007. In the 79 year prior to 2007 they had won 11.

And one Leinster senior title is their lot, with another one not looking to be on the horizon

The previous Leinster senior title Dublin won was in 1961. [There was no Galway in Leinster back then]

There's also the first and second All-Ireland club hurling titles won by Cuala.

Dublin hurling has never been stronger and with the huge underage numbers being tutored by the 70 coaches employed by Dublin GAA it's only a matter of time before Dublin starts picking up more hurling titles.

Dublin are around the ninth best team in hurling

Not exactly stellar, and not exactly only a matter of time before dominance is achieved

[sid waddell]

If Dublin win 15 or 20 in a row and are routinely winning All-Ireland finals by 10-15 points plus, we might talk then about a split

Dublin GAA and their supporters would do well to remember that it will be the other 31 counties deciding their fate.

I can definitely see a scenario where the rest of the GAA give Dublin the option of being split in 5/6/7/8 and if they don't accept the split being kicked out of the senior championsip.

You've obviously thought very deeply about this

Because I believe the current structure is wholly unfair and massively damaging to the GAA.

I was being sarcastic

I don't think you've thought about it very deeply at all

Dominance by one team for a prolonged period might not be great to watch but it is part of sport - it always come to an end eventually