Down Club Hurling & Football

[down1]

Hard luck to Burren tonight, armagh were just the better team, thats what happens when you put a club team out against at county team!!!!

[bridge fan]

Hard luck to Burren tonight, armagh were just the better team, thats what happens when you put a club team out against at county team!!!!

its a good job shorty didn't take his boots or he could have been brough on also

[thegael]

Please explain the following -
John Clarke doesn't start a game since the first league game , he was lucky to start All Ireland final yet he starts v Armagh.
Midfield McArdle is brought on as midfield sub , where did he come from ? I know about genetics but to come on in Ulster Senior Football C'ship , I'M baffled !
The full back line has been  weak point since All Ireland and prior yet we have 2 out of 3 still there.
Who was our midfield when King went in (for a rest) to full forward?
We haven't sorted out reliable free takers from both sides.
Benny is taken off !
Our kickouts were a disaster in All Ireland Final and also in league v Cork and others and yet again v Armagh .
Ronan Murtagh , Paul Murphy ,Conor Laverty ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, unfairly treated.
Maginn injured ?  yet fit to come on after 23 mins maybe he wasn't injured but just not picked ahead of J Clarke ..............
Team weekends not everyone buying into the team ethic and starting players who are  drinking as they see fit ........
Please help to clear up these things...........

[Leo]

B McVeigh   6   Good on the basics, serious issues on the kick-out
D McCartan   3   Brother where art thou? Sometimes passion just isn't enough.
D Gordon   5   Time to end this silly experiment – back to the centre where he is direly needed
B McArdle   6   Could do a job at 3 – gritty performance
D Rooney   6   Curate's egg stuff, good & bad – would put him at 6
K McKernan   6   Same old story we all ignore – great going forward, defensive nightmare, we can't afford a marquee player at no. 6
G McCartan   5   There is surely better outside Burren - but he was not the worst
K King      3   When he is bad he is very very bad but when he is good he is wicked – he was wickedly bad tonight , game lad but it was not game on tonight
P Fitzpatrick   3   Don't want to be too hard on a good prospect but did he turn up?
D Hughes   5   POR did his homework well – without Hughes we are toothless – a few forays but otherwise man-marked out of it
M Clarke   6   Still mixing the brilliant with the bizarre
M Poland   7   It defies all logic that he should be so good but he is
J Clarke   3   Great club player, lovely lad, great in the winter leagues – come May he is lost - would he get anywhere near the Cork team? No, didn't think so.
B Coulter   8   One leg or two he is the business, why oh why was he playing half back for half the first half? That gave Armagh the start they built on.
P McComiskey7   He knows if he even scores a hat-trick he will be taken off
C  Maginn   7   Big impact
The rest of the substitutions owed more to panic than tactics

So my man of the match didn't even  play three quarters of the game....
Time for bed

[Mourne Rover]

A tough night for Down supporters. but we have been through worse and we will be back. Congratulations to a fine Armagh side who were well organised, well motivated and well...better than us when it counted in this game.

We had a disagreement among the experts in the car on the way home, but I still feel we lost it in the first ten minutes. Putting Dan McCartan on Jamie Clarke was a massive call, which turned out to be completely wrong. Clarke destroyed us until Gerard McCartan was shifted on to him and did pretty well all told. We still had a decent start, with two good points and a great take from big Dan which was unfortunately followed by a careless handpass and ten seconds later the ball was in our net. The game then turned against us, and our midfield was not able to cope.

Poland's goal was outstanding, and got us back into a contest which was almost out of sight. It looked good in the third quarter for a while, but in reality we were struggling all over the pitch and Benny's miss - which from our seat was a penalty but he should have taken the point - was the end of the story even before he limped off.

McVeigh made a couple of brilliant punches under huge pressure but his kick-outs were not of the required standard. Dan McCartan is all heart and commitment, and almost got us a goal late on, but it is difficult to believe that he could be asked to take on a forward of the quality of Jamie Clarke. If he starts the next day, it may be the defining moment for our management. Gerard McCartan is a better option in every way.

Big Dan had a strange day, but got stronger and - despite all the alternative views - it is difficult to see who could play at full back instead of him. We could have done with him at midfield and perhaps at full forward, but he can only play one role at a time. McArdle was reasonable, but Rooney and McKernan, while better pushing up, did not do their basic jobs at the back in some ways.

Midfield was probably our biggest problem.  KK had a disaster early on, improved later but the switch to the square looked like desperation. Fitzpatrick had a couple of decent moments but  could have been replaced earlier.

Danny Hughes, apart from a wonder point late on, had his worse game for some years, although Armagh had a decent game plan for him. Poland was brilliant, and may never get an All Star but deserves one. Marty was somewhere between good and excellent, and his free in the corner against a barrage of abuse was from the top drawer. If and when he goes, it will be with our best wishes.

John Clarke has been one of our best players of the last decade but it may have been one game too many and the selection did not reflect league form and has to go down as a  considerable mistake. McComiskey, as always, is a class act, and may have been replaced too soon. The word is that Benny should not have started, still played his heart out and might even have won it for us.

Of the subs, Magiinn made a huge difference and it is hard to understand why he was not deemed fit enough to start. Murtagh, sadly, did not contribute effectively and his only shot was dreadful. McArdle did not get into the game, and Laverty and Eoin McCartan were introduced at a very late stage.

The reality is that,without Ambrose - who had another setback last week - we may struggle to get to the next stage of our development. The qualifiers will be tough, and it all depends on the draw.

[Gabriel]

Good analysis there Mourne Rover. I was unable to go to the game but it sounds desperately disappointing, I did not see a performance like this coming after our progress over the past couple of years. Decision to take off McComiskey seemed mystifying, as it was in the All Ireland Final. Optimistically we might regroup in the qualifiers like we did last year but who's to know what confidence will be like after this result? Hugely disappointing. I wonder if we might have seen the last of John Clarke, the decision to start him after hardly any game time in the league backfired majorly. I also agree with Leo that it's time to get Dan back to midfield, could play B McArdle at 3. It's an effective tactic against the likes of Donaghy but playing Dan back there is wasting one of the best midfielders in the country.

All in all, a demoralising defeat. We need to get the tails back up for the qualifiers now.

[Dubh driocht]

VG MR
And right- apart from significance of Jamie Clarke's goal. He is the real deal. Shit always happens but when a team pulls itself back to go ahead in the third quarter (well done the management but more importantly the players- especially the hungry Mourne men ) the significance of early scores decreases.
Armagh were good in all areas tonight- fair play.
We were good in most areas but 'most' doesn't win USFC games.
Dan G was wonderful. Marty and Poly were mostly the same. Conor Maginn should have been there from the start. We are back to square one. Ambrose should have got an All Star last year.Now most people will see why.
f**k it.

[thewobbler]

On full reflection, I'd suggest Down weren't actually that bad last night so much as beaten by a better team on the night.

I'd also think that should the teams meet 10 times, then Down would be the better team on 8 occasions. It just so happened last night that the likes of Mackin and Padden had their best games at county level, the likes of Mallon had their best game in years, while younger players like Dyas, Clarke and Vernon all delivered.

It's actually very hard to pick an Armagh player who was below a 7/10. They were all on song.

The dream start faciliated this though and it has to be said that Down's early complacency and confusion was the main factor behind Armagh's half-forward line transforming from Junior B to All Ireland contender standard.

If Down had have opened the game up in a cagier and more aggressive way, the result probably would have been different.

In terms of performances, Dan McC got found out a fair bit in the opening quarter, but I still think this had as much to do with the absence of protection as much as anything. While Gerard McC's greater pace was useful, by the time he got onto Clarke, the Cross man no longer had his pick of spots to run into.

McKernan had a stinker during that time, and seemed lost, but in fairness to the lad he has one of the most influential players during our comeback, and did look classy.

King and Fitz went alarmingly missing in the last 20. It's not like Armagh won more ball at midfield because of fitness or strength during this time. I wondered, like I did during the AI final, is it down to leadership when this happens; does each of them always expect the other to be the driving force?

Up front, I mentioned on the other thread that Down need shooters on the field. We'd too many playmakers on the pitch and not enough finishers. Murtagh needs to start, and if that means one of Hughes / Poland / M Clarke / Maginn misses out, then so be it.

Or forwards probably could suggest though that 1.10 on a wet night should be enough to make things competitive.

Wee James didn't have his best hour as a manager. Some of the Burren bias comments above are out of order - they are our county champions and the best defensive unit in Down. The decision to bring on Anton was a strange one (a bit like Jadon Brown last year) but that didn't cost Down the game. The bigger issues revolved around the balance and motivation of the team.

[here comes 6]

The Gael, Leo, Mounre Rover, Gaberial & Dubh Driocht

All on the mark with your comments


What i could see was the lack of confidence from Down attacking when j clarke was on the field. the man is complety out of his depth and if I was j clarke i wouldnt be back out of embaressment.   what everyone seems to agree with also is that Gordan must be push out to the middle again with B mcardle put at no.3.
 
This was not the result we desired but we are still in the running even after last night.   
Heads up and lets keep supporting the lads

[13aside]

having opened brightly we then nudged the self destruct button giving the ball away in defence for the goal,however we then reduced a six point gap to two before the break.The manager saw fit to remove a forward who was not playing well but left the defence alone where we had real problems.We began the second as the first and missed a couple of chances to increase our tally.When Armagh began to assert we appeared leaderless,the guile,awareness,craft ,ability and the will to win were all wearing Armagh jerseys.The substitution calls for Down bordered on the bizarre and left many Down supporters bewildered-An empty feeling last night and its still around this morning,maybe its time for honesty that we just dont have the quality or strength in depth at the moment

[Mourne Rover]

I don't want to fall out with the Wobbler, one of the most thoughtful posters on this site, but he is looking at Murtagh in Ballyholland rather than Down terms. Murtagh has been in the Down senior squad for the last decade and it is difficult to recall a single championship match when he has performed effectively as a starter. He has the ability, and is capable of making an impact as a sub, but rating him ahead of the likes of Marty, Hughes and Poland makes no sense. Murtagh has a tendency to go for dramatic long-range scores when easier options are available, and his only shot last night, after we put together a brilliant move, was pretty hopeless and deflated us at a big moment. He also tried an over-ambitious pass against Dublin in injury tiime in the league which lost us possession and led to their late goal. However, as a sub last summer, he was frequently outstanding. It would be very surprising if he starts the next day.

[back off the net]

All yous are good for is going to Dublin and kissing the ass off the Queen. Do you think the boys from south Armagh that has come though so much as a result off the Queen was going to stand back and let a team that kissed her ass a few days earlier come to Armagh and beat them? NOT A CHANCE yous should hold your heads in shame

[Mid Down Gael]

Truth be told this was an awful performance and result for Down last night. Our management got it wrong in a lot of areas and where out foxed tactically by ORourke, who saved his job in orchestrating Armaghs comprehensive victory.
Down looked a very ordinary side and on the evidence of last night last year could turn out to be a one year wonder, we certainly wont get as easy a passage to the promised land.
Our management made 5 changes, subtituting 4 forwards while our defence where being destroyed. Dan McCartan is not good enough for county football, simple as. He is only on the team due to favourtism and imo is a very poor inter county footballer, i dont see what he brings to the table. Gordon is a stop gap at full back and its time to look at someonelse for this role as Dan is required in midfield. McArdle and Rooney where roasted by Paddan and Mackin respectively while McKernan, although good going forward, failed in marking playmaker Miceal ORourke. Gerard McCartan done rightly and stuck tightly to Jamie Clarke, just a pity he didnt start the game on Armaghs prolific youngster. 
King was woeful in the first half, although he improved in the second half while Fitzpatrick was average as he usually is. I believe we require a new midfield partnership going forward and i would be picking Dan Gordon along with Murphy or Colgan. Colgan also could revert to the sweeper role as he does it more effectivly that McKernan.
Our attack faltered last night, Marty tried hard while Poland was superb in the first half. McComiskey had some good moments while Maginn worked his socks off. Benny didnt look sharp while the decision to start Clarkey backfired. Lavertys performance in recent weeks in friendlys and at training merited a start and he would have offered much more. Murtagh, like Benny was not match fit imo, not having played club football this year due to an ankle injury.
The Anton McArdle subtitution was hard to understand. If he was from any other club rather than Burren he wouldnt be near the place.
Back to the drawing board and hopefully the management learn from their mistakes.

[here comes 6]

i think Aidan Carr and Paul Murphy need to start the next day. somtimes a change of players does the team alot of good.  i would also try playing with a3 man fflline. but just remember the seasons a long way from being over

[lucan]

hey james; why didnt you take on your da. sorry i foregot he is not from burren.