Shot Clock

Started by Dinny Breen, March 04, 2019, 12:24:09 PM

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Dinny Breen

Quote from: Hound on March 04, 2019, 02:53:28 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 04, 2019, 02:44:24 PM

Btw for the usual grunters I never said I was in favour but I have obviously have a more open mind the myopic Dublin supporters....must be all the fake All-Irelands that make them so angry...they know...
Yeah, it's just Dublin supporters against this ridiculous idea...

Although I see your distancing yourself from it now! Maybe, you've decided to think it through.

Grunter!! Getting a tad grumpy in oul age Dinny

Ridiculous idea! hardly considering it's been doing the rounds for years. Now giving Dublin millions and not splitting them up, doesn't get more ridiculous than that in fairness, oh wait letting Dublin use Croke for league matches since 2011.......The GAA is full of ridiculous ideas but one to actually improve the game as a spectacle certainly isn't...
#newbridgeornowhere

priceyreilly

If teams were to go ultra defensive, then how would they score? The shot clock will run out on them. Having said that, don't think it's the best idea. Something has to be done about the keep ball though. A number of teams are adopting it now.

brokencrossbar1

Dinny I get the idea of bringing change in to make it better but I think that a shot clock isn't the way for it.  As someone who has played basketball and still do as best as I can it is easier to implement in it as it is a transition sport over short distances and is more 'play' orientated.  Smaller numbers and more control make it easier to manage and implement.  I think the idea of reducing numbers might work and I have always been an advocate of 'team fouls' using the basketball analogy.  If a team can be punished for cumulative fouls then there is a huge incentive for teams to actually go at each other and attack....8-10 fouls a half....21 yard free....

TheGreatest

Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 04, 2019, 02:58:27 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 04, 2019, 02:53:28 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 04, 2019, 02:44:24 PM

Btw for the usual grunters I never said I was in favour but I have obviously have a more open mind the myopic Dublin supporters....must be all the fake All-Irelands that make them so angry...they know...
Yeah, it's just Dublin supporters against this ridiculous idea...

Although I see your distancing yourself from it now! Maybe, you've decided to think it through.

Grunter!! Getting a tad grumpy in oul age Dinny

Ridiculous idea! hardly considering it's been doing the rounds for years. Now giving Dublin millions and not splitting them up, doesn't get more ridiculous than that in fairness, oh wait letting Dublin use Croke for league matches since 2011.......The GAA is full of ridiculous ideas but one to actually improve the game as a spectacle certainly isn't...

Ewan....

priceyreilly

How about this?
Shot clock of 1 minute.
At least 3 players have to be in the opposition 45 at all times.
5 hand passes before you have to kick.

BennyCake

Quote from: priceyreilly on March 04, 2019, 04:54:56 PM
How about this?
Shot clock of 1 minute.
At least 3 players have to be in the opposition 45 at all times.
5 hand passes before you have to kick.

Is that you Barry Hearn?

The 3 men in the 45 thing is impossible to police. Clock might be worth a try though.

No back pass to the keeper I'd recommend. Won't solve all ills, but it'll help.

Rossfan

Firstly let's implement the 4 step rule in toto. No letting ball carriers take 10 or 12 steps just because they're being tackled.
Also penalise all fouling by ball carriers.
And there HAS to be restrictions on consecutive throwpasses.
Also black card/sinbin for the cynical tactical fouls by forwards to stop a team breaking fast from defence.
The same for not handing over the ball when it's a free against you or standing in the way to prevent a quick free.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

mrdeeds

I always thought the simplest thing to do is enforce the steps rule so turnover is easier so ball has to be moved quicker and no more than one player tackling a player eliminating the point of the blanket.

6th sam

Bc1 , like the idea of cumulative fouls being penalised. Would really open things up and would be easily policed by referees and also by managers and team mates who will no longer tolerate conceding cheap fouls.

Any changes have to be manageable for single referees at all levels

tippabu

Quote from: Hound on March 04, 2019, 01:00:41 PM
It's not a credible idea. It could only be put forward by people who have either never watched basketball or never watched gaelic football.

If this was brought into gaelic football, every single kickout would be uncontested. The team on the defence would bring every player back into their own 45m and try force their opponents to shoot long from distance. Rinse and repeat.

It would not only encourage a defensive set up, it would demand an ultra defensive set up.

I'm surprised it took only 4 posts before someone spoke sense and realised how much of a huge negative effect it would have. I'll be honest I only read the 1st 6 posts but it's mad how people think everything in the gaa is about Dublin.

This is not a cut at fermanagh, they are having a great year and all the best to them but for me how they are playing is atrocious in terms of a spectacle. If everyone played like this the game would be dead. Again I fully respect fermanagh and they've such a small pool of players and resources that they are doing what best for them and being very successful but this is an issue that nobody trys to fix if we want a better game to watch and take part in.

Sionnach

Quote from: BennyCake on March 04, 2019, 05:01:01 PM
Quote from: priceyreilly on March 04, 2019, 04:54:56 PM
How about this?
Shot clock of 1 minute.
At least 3 players have to be in the opposition 45 at all times.
5 hand passes before you have to kick.

Is that you Barry Hearn?

The 3 men in the 45 thing is impossible to police. Clock might be worth a try though.

No back pass to the keeper I'd recommend. Won't solve all ills, but it'll help.

Enforcing 3 or 4 men in the 45 becomes trivially easy to police by simply giving 3-4 designated attackers / defenders on each team a different jersey, like the goalkeeper.   There are a few small annoyances the rule would cause e.g. a player having to stop chasing the ball because it has gone back behind the 45, but frankly those would be a very small price to pay for ending the blanket defence in a single stroke.

BennyCake

Quote from: Sionnach on March 04, 2019, 09:54:00 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 04, 2019, 05:01:01 PM
Quote from: priceyreilly on March 04, 2019, 04:54:56 PM
How about this?
Shot clock of 1 minute.
At least 3 players have to be in the opposition 45 at all times.
5 hand passes before you have to kick.

Is that you Barry Hearn?

The 3 men in the 45 thing is impossible to police. Clock might be worth a try though.

No back pass to the keeper I'd recommend. Won't solve all ills, but it'll help.

Enforcing 3 or 4 men in the 45 becomes trivially easy to police by simply giving 3-4 designated attackers / defenders on each team a different jersey, like the goalkeeper.   There are a few small annoyances the rule would cause e.g. a player having to stop chasing the ball because it has gone back behind the 45, but frankly those would be a very small price to pay for ending the blanket defence in a single stroke.

I think you just like disagreeing with Armagh men

Nothing like over-complicating things! If teams had less players, you wouldn't need to keep 3/4 players in the opposing half. That's the simplest solution and less strife for officials. It's no wonder the refs get so much wrong.

Never beat the deeler

Are we not totally missing the point here?

We are trying to force the winning team go into an area packed with bodies rather than holding on to possession and trying to draw the defending team out.

Surely we should be stopping the defending team from all sitting inside their own 45
Hasta la victoria siempre

thewobbler

Quote from: Never beat the deeler on March 05, 2019, 01:51:12 AM
Are we not totally missing the point here?

We are trying to force the winning team go into an area packed with bodies rather than holding on to possession and trying to draw the defending team out.

Surely we should be stopping the defending team from all sitting inside their own 45

You have to look at this problem laterally.

What basketball's shotclock, and halfway line, does is place the onus on the team with the ball to attack. Rugby league's 5th tackle the same. NFL's 4th down the same.

By restricting the potential for endless ball retention, it changes the dynamic of how both teams approach the game. A team whose sole intention is to minimise the number of attacks they face, runs into the problem that they'll face a much larger number of attacks. It's surely only natural at this point yo ensure that these attacks are snuffed out as far away from their own goal as possible; hence they'll step up a little. Then maybe a little more. Whereas a more attack minded team would surely be required to include a regular long ball option in their arsenal; it is the ultimate plan B - so coaches would be forced - against their current "better judgement" to train players in delivering longer passes.

——

FWIW I reckons fionntomnach's concept has serious legs. It is so simple that is bloody clever.

In terms if implementation, it would need accompanied by a strict edict, across all matches from u10 club to AISF, that referees will book and send off anyone and everyone who accuses them of poor time management / bias / cheating. Everyone would need to get on board with the fact that this rule is not designed not to reward defence, but to penalise a lack of attacking intent. It requires a cultural change among our robotic players and paranoid managers. The quickest way to see that change through is with red cards. Everywhere.


Sionnach

Quote from: BennyCake on March 04, 2019, 11:40:44 PM
Quote from: Sionnach on March 04, 2019, 09:54:00 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 04, 2019, 05:01:01 PM
Quote from: priceyreilly on March 04, 2019, 04:54:56 PM
How about this?
Shot clock of 1 minute.
At least 3 players have to be in the opposition 45 at all times.
5 hand passes before you have to kick.

Is that you Barry Hearn?

The 3 men in the 45 thing is impossible to police. Clock might be worth a try though.

No back pass to the keeper I'd recommend. Won't solve all ills, but it'll help.

Enforcing 3 or 4 men in the 45 becomes trivially easy to police by simply giving 3-4 designated attackers / defenders on each team a different jersey, like the goalkeeper.   There are a few small annoyances the rule would cause e.g. a player having to stop chasing the ball because it has gone back behind the 45, but frankly those would be a very small price to pay for ending the blanket defence in a single stroke.

I think you just like disagreeing with Armagh men

Nothing like over-complicating things! If teams had less players, you wouldn't need to keep 3/4 players in the opposing half. That's the simplest solution and less strife for officials. It's no wonder the refs get so much wrong.

It's a very simple change, not sure what's so complicated about designating 3-4 attackers and giving them different jerseys like the  'keeper. With the different jerseys, there's no reason why referees would have any difficulty at all enforcing that rule, and I don't see any major disadvantages to it.  Packed defences are the problem, so why not simply ban them?

I do think 13-a-side is worth discussing though as a matter of fact.