The SDLP

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

There is nobody in Irish politics trying to rewrite the troubles as much as SF. So if rewriting history irks you as you say you must be genuinely disgusted with SF.

Staggering ignorance.

Just yesterday we had a FF councillor on twitter claiming that the Provos carried out the Omagh bombing, and made the claim purely in an attempt to have a cheap pop at Sinn Féin. How's that for re-writing history? But sure, it was only the biggest atrocity of the conflict and sure it was all to take a pop at the shinners, so who cares eh?

But you're probably right. The state that went as far as introducing a law aimed at censoring what was reported about the conflict to the people of the south was probably not trying to subvert the truth of what was happening at all at all 

A FG TD claimed that the IRA committed the Dublin/Monaghan bombings (it was the UVF aided by arms of the British State) - an atrocity his party helped coverup and deny justice to the victims.

Another FG TD blamed Gerry Adams for loyalists coming into his constituency office and opening fire on unarmed civilians killing 3.

The narrative from FF/FG is that Northern nationalists deserved all they got and how dare them for fighting back.

The formation of the Provos was an inevitable reality during the troubles and it is the British and Free State Governments that have blood on their hands from their inaction.

Some outlandish claims there. The individuals making the claims are idiots.

The claim that FF/FG attitude to Northern nationalists was that deserved all they got is similarly idiotic. Where do get this shit.

You have never explained why, during the troubles, a majority of nationalists living in the prevailing condition NI never thought that the provos' actions were justified?

Outlandish claims are commonplace and happen on a daily basis down south from FF and FG.

We never had any sort of consensus whether the vast majority of nationalists supported the Provos or not. It's impossible to say because there is nothing to back up your assertion. The Provos could not operate as successfully as they did without the cooperation of local communities and certainly in the likes of South Armagh, East Tyrone and South Derry they would have had significant support in local areas as well as urban cities like Belfast and Derry.

Well that seems to be attitude of FF/FG. They consistently try to politicise the troubles, you and I both know about the role the British State played in many atrocities on innocent nationalist civilians and their dirty campaign north of the border and in the Dublin Monaghan bombings too. Yet where is the political pressure there from FF/FG? Why do they consistently ignore the vast majority of nationalist victims of the Troubles?

They have no problem trying to play political football with victims of the trouble but when they had the opportunity to assist the McAnespie family to get justice they actively thwarted the quest and refused to release what could be an invaluable report in doing so.

They operated with about 10% support of nationalist population until ceasefire

Care to substantiate this claim with any evidence? While you attempt to, I'll direct you this QUB study carried out in 2005, which found that "42 percent of Catholics expressed sympathy for republican paramilitary groups" and goes to to say "The opinion poll evidence in both societies about support for physical force tells a remarkably consistent—and shocking—story. As in previous research, (25) the results show that significant minorities within both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland (as well as within each of their respective religious communities) support the use of violence for political ends" https://www.abdn.ac.uk/staffpages/uploads/soc207/polviolence.pdf

Look at SF results until 1996.sure aye sympathy but active support naw sorry didn't happen

SF barely functioned in any meaningful way for the majority of the troubles ya dope.  If you are going to refute an academic study, you might want to up your game in terms of evidence.

You for real. They stood in every election from 81 onwards. What are you claiming. That people supported the Ra but voted SDLP instead. And please stop with the insults, that's a few times now.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Max 20% across north .

I already linked to a study which fairly resoundly makes nonsense of your "max 20%" claim.

What are you saying about abstentionism. I'm lost. They always and still do have abstentionism policy at Westminster, even though they take full wage and London office

They don't.

Lol. God love yer innocence

[RedHand88]

Max 20% across north .

I already linked to a study which fairly resoundly makes nonsense of your "max 20%" claim.

What are you saying about abstentionism. I'm lost. They always and still do have abstentionism policy at Westminster, even though they take full wage and London office

They don't.

Lol. God love yer innocence

They really don't. Westminster don't give it to them.

https://fullfact.org/news/sinn-fein-salaries/

This was very easy to find out.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Max 20% across north .

I already linked to a study which fairly resoundly makes nonsense of your "max 20%" claim.

What are you saying about abstentionism. I'm lost. They always and still do have abstentionism policy at Westminster, even though they take full wage and London office

They don't.

Lol. God love yer innocence

They really don't. Westminster don't give it to them.

https://fullfact.org/news/sinn-fein-salaries/

This was very easy to find out.

Ok I'll give you that. But as British ministers of parliament they do take their expenses . 170k?

[Snapchap]

You for real. They stood in every election from 81 onwards. What are you claiming. That people supported the Ra but voted SDLP instead. And please stop with the insults, that's a few times now.

And stood in a climate where their representatives were being targetted for execution by the state and where nationalists in many cases didn't engage in electoral politics. Does that sound like a level playing field by which a party's performance could be judged? Again, if you want to refute an academic study, you're going to have to put forward something a bit better than this.

[Snapchap]

Max 20% across north .

I already linked to a study which fairly resoundly makes nonsense of your "max 20%" claim.

What are you saying about abstentionism. I'm lost. They always and still do have abstentionism policy at Westminster, even though they take full wage and London office

They don't.

Lol. God love yer innocence

They really don't. Westminster don't give it to them.

https://fullfact.org/news/sinn-fein-salaries/

This was very easy to find out.

Ok I'll give you that. But as British ministers of parliament they do take their expenses . 170k?

lol caught out spouting again, I see?

And yes,they do take expenses. Why wouldn't they? Their MPs run a full time constituency service. Believe it or not, most of an MPs work takes place outside the commons chamber.

[screenexile]

They'd need the expenses alright sure the Northern Bank money has probably run out at this stage!!

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Max 20% across north .

I already linked to a study which fairly resoundly makes nonsense of your "max 20%" claim.

What are you saying about abstentionism. I'm lost. They always and still do have abstentionism policy at Westminster, even though they take full wage and London office

They don't.

Lol. God love yer innocence

They really don't. Westminster don't give it to them.

https://fullfact.org/news/sinn-fein-salaries/

This was very easy to find out.

Ok I'll give you that. But as British ministers of parliament they do take their expenses . 170k?

lol caught out spouting again, I see?

And yes,they do take expenses. Why wouldn't they? Their MPs run a full time constituency service. Believe it or not, most of an MPs work takes place outside the commons chamber.

Ill retract the wages one, clearly wrong, but ill stand over everything else ive said. Im not sure how second home allowances in London or hotel rooms has anything to do with irish republican politics but

Anyhow im still in state of shock to find out that all them Hume supporters in Derry back in the day were really closet Ra men. Every day is a school day

[Snapchap]

Max 20% across north .

I already linked to a study which fairly resoundly makes nonsense of your "max 20%" claim.

What are you saying about abstentionism. I'm lost. They always and still do have abstentionism policy at Westminster, even though they take full wage and London office

They don't.

Lol. God love yer innocence

They really don't. Westminster don't give it to them.

https://fullfact.org/news/sinn-fein-salaries/

This was very easy to find out.

Ok I'll give you that. But as British ministers of parliament they do take their expenses . 170k?

lol caught out spouting again, I see?

And yes,they do take expenses. Why wouldn't they? Their MPs run a full time constituency service. Believe it or not, most of an MPs work takes place outside the commons chamber.

Ill retract the wages one, clearly wrong, but ill stand over everything else ive said. Im not sure how second home allowances in London or hotel rooms has anything to do with irish republican politics but

Anyhow im still in state of shock to find out that all them Hume supporters in Derry back in the day were really closet Ra men. Every day is a school day

I rang QUB there. Apprently sarcasm isn't a sufficient method to challenge the findings of an academic study. Anything else?

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Max 20% across north .

I already linked to a study which fairly resoundly makes nonsense of your "max 20%" claim.

What are you saying about abstentionism. I'm lost. They always and still do have abstentionism policy at Westminster, even though they take full wage and London office

They don't.

Lol. God love yer innocence

They really don't. Westminster don't give it to them.

https://fullfact.org/news/sinn-fein-salaries/

This was very easy to find out.

Ok I'll give you that. But as British ministers of parliament they do take their expenses . 170k?

lol caught out spouting again, I see?

And yes,they do take expenses. Why wouldn't they? Their MPs run a full time constituency service. Believe it or not, most of an MPs work takes place outside the commons chamber.

Ill retract the wages one, clearly wrong, but ill stand over everything else ive said. Im not sure how second home allowances in London or hotel rooms has anything to do with irish republican politics but

Anyhow im still in state of shock to find out that all them Hume supporters in Derry back in the day were really closet Ra men. Every day is a school day

I rang QUB there. Apprently sarcasm isn't a sufficient method to challenge the findings of an academic study. Anything else?

Have you read the report in full,  because at a glance it concludes that a significant minority supported violence , which I think is what I have said. And its not sarcasm, its voting fact. What about them London gaffs anyhow?

[Snapchap]

Max 20% across north .

I already linked to a study which fairly resoundly makes nonsense of your "max 20%" claim.

What are you saying about abstentionism. I'm lost. They always and still do have abstentionism policy at Westminster, even though they take full wage and London office

They don't.

Lol. God love yer innocence

They really don't. Westminster don't give it to them.

https://fullfact.org/news/sinn-fein-salaries/

This was very easy to find out.

Ok I'll give you that. But as British ministers of parliament they do take their expenses . 170k?

lol caught out spouting again, I see?

And yes,they do take expenses. Why wouldn't they? Their MPs run a full time constituency service. Believe it or not, most of an MPs work takes place outside the commons chamber.

Ill retract the wages one, clearly wrong, but ill stand over everything else ive said. Im not sure how second home allowances in London or hotel rooms has anything to do with irish republican politics but

Anyhow im still in state of shock to find out that all them Hume supporters in Derry back in the day were really closet Ra men. Every day is a school day

I rang QUB there. Apprently sarcasm isn't a sufficient method to challenge the findings of an academic study. Anything else?

Have you read the report in full,  because at a glance it concludes that a significant minority supported violence , which I think is what I have said. And its not sarcasm, its voting fact. What about them London gaffs anyhow?

You said 20% "max". How on earth can you look at a report that suggests it was more than double that level of support and attempt to present it as evidence that you were right 

And what "gaffs"? As far as I can see the "gaffs" you refer to are two rented flats used by their MPs and staff. Just because the expenses are termed "second home allowances" doesn't actually mean their MPs own second homes in London.

Anyway, isn't it ironic that the SDLP thread has been jumped on by those only interested in attacking SF, given that attacking SF has been seemingly the SDLPs only apparent policy/reason for existence in recent years.

[Angelo]

There is nobody in Irish politics trying to rewrite the troubles as much as SF. So if rewriting history irks you as you say you must be genuinely disgusted with SF.

Staggering ignorance.

Just yesterday we had a FF councillor on twitter claiming that the Provos carried out the Omagh bombing, and made the claim purely in an attempt to have a cheap pop at Sinn Féin. How's that for re-writing history? But sure, it was only the biggest atrocity of the conflict and sure it was all to take a pop at the shinners, so who cares eh?

But you're probably right. The state that went as far as introducing a law aimed at censoring what was reported about the conflict to the people of the south was probably not trying to subvert the truth of what was happening at all at all 

A FG TD claimed that the IRA committed the Dublin/Monaghan bombings (it was the UVF aided by arms of the British State) - an atrocity his party helped coverup and deny justice to the victims.

Another FG TD blamed Gerry Adams for loyalists coming into his constituency office and opening fire on unarmed civilians killing 3.

The narrative from FF/FG is that Northern nationalists deserved all they got and how dare them for fighting back.

The formation of the Provos was an inevitable reality during the troubles and it is the British and Free State Governments that have blood on their hands from their inaction.

Some outlandish claims there. The individuals making the claims are idiots.

The claim that FF/FG attitude to Northern nationalists was that deserved all they got is similarly idiotic. Where do get this shit.

You have never explained why, during the troubles, a majority of nationalists living in the prevailing condition NI never thought that the provos' actions were justified?

Outlandish claims are commonplace and happen on a daily basis down south from FF and FG.

We never had any sort of consensus whether the vast majority of nationalists supported the Provos or not. It's impossible to say because there is nothing to back up your assertion. The Provos could not operate as successfully as they did without the cooperation of local communities and certainly in the likes of South Armagh, East Tyrone and South Derry they would have had significant support in local areas as well as urban cities like Belfast and Derry.

Well that seems to be attitude of FF/FG. They consistently try to politicise the troubles, you and I both know about the role the British State played in many atrocities on innocent nationalist civilians and their dirty campaign north of the border and in the Dublin Monaghan bombings too. Yet where is the political pressure there from FF/FG? Why do they consistently ignore the vast majority of nationalist victims of the Troubles?

They have no problem trying to play political football with victims of the trouble but when they had the opportunity to assist the McAnespie family to get justice they actively thwarted the quest and refused to release what could be an invaluable report in doing so.

They operated with about 10% support of nationalist population until ceasefire

If you're talking about constitutional politics, SF operated with an abstention policy in the O6 until after the ceasefire. The political party was merely an ancillary unit to the IRA up until the peace talks began to gain traction.

I grew up in a Heartland. Max 40% I'm very small tight knit areas. Max 20% across north . What are you saying about abstentionism. I'm lost. They always and still do have abstentionism policy at Westminster, even though they take full wage and London office

What I'm saying is that  for pretty much the entirety of the troubles it was direct rule that took place in the O6.  SF were an abstentionist party throughout that time and still are at Westminister. The power O6 MPs had in that period was extremely limited as it the state was controlled under the British government. When devolved powers moved back it did not take very long for SF to swat aside the SDLP and represent nationalists views in the north.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Max 20% across north .

I already linked to a study which fairly resoundly makes nonsense of your "max 20%" claim.

What are you saying about abstentionism. I'm lost. They always and still do have abstentionism policy at Westminster, even though they take full wage and London office

They don't.

Lol. God love yer innocence

They really don't. Westminster don't give it to them.

https://fullfact.org/news/sinn-fein-salaries/

This was very easy to find out.

Ok I'll give you that. But as British ministers of parliament they do take their expenses . 170k?

lol caught out spouting again, I see?

And yes,they do take expenses. Why wouldn't they? Their MPs run a full time constituency service. Believe it or not, most of an MPs work takes place outside the commons chamber.

Ill retract the wages one, clearly wrong, but ill stand over everything else ive said. Im not sure how second home allowances in London or hotel rooms has anything to do with irish republican politics but

Anyhow im still in state of shock to find out that all them Hume supporters in Derry back in the day were really closet Ra men. Every day is a school day

I rang QUB there. Apprently sarcasm isn't a sufficient method to challenge the findings of an academic study. Anything else?

Have you read the report in full,  because at a glance it concludes that a significant minority supported violence , which I think is what I have said. And its not sarcasm, its voting fact. What about them London gaffs anyhow?

You said 20% "max". How on earth can you look at a report that suggests it was more than double that level of support and attempt to present it as evidence that you were right 

And what "gaffs"? As far as I can see the "gaffs" you refer to are two rented flats used by their MPs and staff. Just because the expenses are termed "second home allowances" doesn't actually mean their MPs own second homes in London.

Anyway, isn't it ironic that the SDLP thread has been jumped on by those only interested in attacking SF, given that attacking SF has been seemingly the SDLPs only apparent policy/reason for existence in recent years.

im right, as I said having sympathy for ( which is what the report says)and actually doing something is completely different. I have sympathy for Hamas ffs.

There is a book of remembrance in Rath Mór Creggan. Every single person's who actively helped the movement family is approached upon their death to see if the family want them in there.
That help can have been a safe house, comms smuggled into the Kesh, membership, anything- well have a look at the numbers,  what I said is that it was a significant minority and would never have passed 20% at any one time. In the 1982 election when you thought sympathy should have been at its highest SF only got 10% of vote, ah thats right they were all voting SDLP sure.

As for attacking SF, that is their modus operendi on Twitter and about every other medium they are on,  they dont like people, especially insiders putting it up to them.

The Derry SF Twitterati have gone very quiet recently , must have been a memo from Mary Lou. i suppose it will give Monga time to concentrate of his fulltime job as "bonfire officer" in the council! Wtf having a laugh, council jobs with pensions givien out, that got some laugh here I tell you that. Nepotism again.

No and they dont need flats or houses in London which us the tax payer pays for, what constituency work is done in London? You cant run with fox and the hounds

[Snapchap]

im right, as I said having sympathy for ( which is what the report says)and actually doing something is completely different. I have sympathy for Hamas ffs.

The debate wasn't about who was "doing something". It was about the level of support the IRA has from the nationalist community. You suggested that the level was "max 20%". The QUB study says 42%. Over twice your guess. You were, yet again, wrong.

There is a book of remembrance in Rath Mór Creggan. Every single person's who actively helped the movement family is approached upon their death to see if the family want them in there.
That help can have been a safe house, comms smuggled into the Kesh, membership, anything- well have a look at the numbers,  what I said is that it was a significant minority and would never have passed 20% at any one time. In the 1982 election when you thought sympathy should have been at its highest SF only got 10% of vote, ah thats right they were all voting SDLP sure.

Again, this isn't evidence. If you want to refute the findding of an academic study, you need to produce research contradicting it. I'm still waiting.

The Derry SF Twitterati have gone very quiet recently , must have been a memo from Mary Lou. i suppose it will give Monga time to concentrate of his fulltime job as "bonfire officer" in the council! Wtf having a laugh, council jobs with pensions givien out, that got some laugh here I tell you that. Nepotism again.

I don't follow any "Derry SF twitterati" so I've no idea what you're on about.

No  and they dont need flats or houses in London which us the tax payer pays for, what constituency work is done in London? You cant run with fox and the hounds

They don't need accomodation? You think that the only thing MPs do in Westminster attend sessions in the chamber? You really need to get a grip on what MPs actually do. To quote Professor Jon Tonge, "They are in London with ever-greater frequency these days, They regularly have meetings in Portcullis House. They are quite a big presence there these days. But they won't enter the chamber. In every other capacity you could argue that Sinn Fein are good constituency MPs." In fact, last year, the "People Power Index" which assesses the individual activity of every MP, found that Paul Maskey came into the top 10% of all 650 MPs. Results also showed that out of the 18 MPs in the north, all of the SF MPS except one, came in with the highest score. The only non-SF MP to be in the top 7 was the DUPs Jim Shannon. Bearing in mind that the index takes voting record into consideration, then the fact that SF rate so highly on the scale, and the fact that Paul Maskey, despite not having any voting record still comes in in the top 10%, shows how much they work on behalf of constituents.

[RedHand88]

Burn.