Is the rush of Catholics to vote DUP being overstated? I see Bernie Smyth siddling up to Ian og on the front of the Irish News. The party that supported shoot to kill and whose founder ridiculed the pope as an 'anti Christ'. What I have lived to see.
Christ, you haven't actually fallen for it, have you??
Quote from: haranguerer on June 05, 2018, 12:06:20 PM
Christ, you haven't actually fallen for it, have you??
I doubt there will be huge numbers but obviously there are some.
Quote from: longballin on June 05, 2018, 11:54:04 AM
Is the rush of Catholics to vote DUP being overstated? I see Bernie Smyth siddling up to Ian og on the front of the Irish News. The party that supported shoot to kill and whose founder ridiculed the pope as an 'anti Christ'. What I have lived to see.
It seems to me there's a cohort of conservative Roman Catholics in the wee six - plenty on this forum - that have far more in common with the DUP than they do with the vast majority of Roman Catholics both in the wee six and in the Republic who don't take religion very seriously.
But abortion and to a lesser extent same sex marriage are issues which could deeply undermine unionism and particularly the DUP.
There is huge public support for reform of abortion laws in Northern Ireland.
Sinn Fein and the SDLP have already seen which way the wind is blowing on these issues.
The DUP will end up losing touch with their base on these issues in the same way the Roman Catholic Church lost touch.
Protestant, unionist women need abortions.
And there are plenty of gay Protestant, unionists too.
The forces which will modernise the laws on these issues in the wee six are going to rise inexorably in the near future and they will rise across all communities.
The backwoodsmen won't be able to hold back the tide forever.
Good post. Hope you're right.
Quote from: sid waddell on June 05, 2018, 12:17:37 PM
Quote from: longballin on June 05, 2018, 11:54:04 AM
Is the rush of Catholics to vote DUP being overstated? I see Bernie Smyth siddling up to Ian og on the front of the Irish News. The party that supported shoot to kill and whose founder ridiculed the pope as an 'anti Christ'. What I have lived to see.
It seems to me there's a cohort of conservative Roman Catholics in the wee six - plenty on this forum - that have far more in common with the DUP than they do with the vast majority of Roman Catholics both in the wee six and in the Republic who don't take religion very seriously.
But abortion and to a lesser extent same sex marriage are issues which could deeply undermine unionism and particularly the DUP.
There is huge public support for reform of abortion laws in Northern Ireland.
Sinn Fein and the SDLP have already seen which way the wind is blowing on these issues.
The DUP will end up losing touch with their base on these issues in the same way the Roman Catholic Church lost touch.
Protestant, unionist women need abortions.
And there are plenty of gay Protestant, unionists too.
The forces which will modernise the laws on these issues in the wee six are going to rise inexorably in the near future and they will rise across all communities.
The backwoodsmen won't be able to hold back the tide forever.
Sid could you do us a favour and drop the Roman bit. It was and is used in a derogatory way by those backwoodsmen that you have described, so there is no need for us to take it on ourselves.
Quote from: NAG1 on June 05, 2018, 12:30:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 05, 2018, 12:17:37 PM
Quote from: longballin on June 05, 2018, 11:54:04 AM
Is the rush of Catholics to vote DUP being overstated? I see Bernie Smyth siddling up to Ian og on the front of the Irish News. The party that supported shoot to kill and whose founder ridiculed the pope as an 'anti Christ'. What I have lived to see.
It seems to me there's a cohort of conservative Roman Catholics in the wee six - plenty on this forum - that have far more in common with the DUP than they do with the vast majority of Roman Catholics both in the wee six and in the Republic who don't take religion very seriously.
But abortion and to a lesser extent same sex marriage are issues which could deeply undermine unionism and particularly the DUP.
There is huge public support for reform of abortion laws in Northern Ireland.
Sinn Fein and the SDLP have already seen which way the wind is blowing on these issues.
The DUP will end up losing touch with their base on these issues in the same way the Roman Catholic Church lost touch.
Protestant, unionist women need abortions.
And there are plenty of gay Protestant, unionists too.
The forces which will modernise the laws on these issues in the wee six are going to rise inexorably in the near future and they will rise across all communities.
The backwoodsmen won't be able to hold back the tide forever.
Sid could you do us a favour and drop the Roman bit. It was and is used in a derogatory way by those backwoodsmen that you have described, so there is no need for us to take it on ourselves.
There are plenty of ways the Roman Catholic Church could be referred to which are much more derogatory than its actual name.
Quote from: longballin on June 05, 2018, 12:13:24 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on June 05, 2018, 12:06:20 PM
Christ, you haven't actually fallen for it, have you??
I doubt there will be huge numbers but obviously there are some.
Some? I would reckon you can count on the one hand, and they're probably like Ruth Dudley Edwards so no big loss.
Well you know some should vote for them. I've always said that right wing religious nutters like Tony Fearon have more in common with the DUP than any other party on the island. Maybe in a United Ireland where the DUP will have to change and re-brand itself, they will indeed add religious nutters of all persuasions to their ranks.
Quote from: NAG1 on June 05, 2018, 12:30:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 05, 2018, 12:17:37 PM
Quote from: longballin on June 05, 2018, 11:54:04 AM
Is the rush of Catholics to vote DUP being overstated? I see Bernie Smyth siddling up to Ian og on the front of the Irish News. The party that supported shoot to kill and whose founder ridiculed the pope as an 'anti Christ'. What I have lived to see.
It seems to me there's a cohort of conservative Roman Catholics in the wee six - plenty on this forum - that have far more in common with the DUP than they do with the vast majority of Roman Catholics both in the wee six and in the Republic who don't take religion very seriously.
But abortion and to a lesser extent same sex marriage are issues which could deeply undermine unionism and particularly the DUP.
There is huge public support for reform of abortion laws in Northern Ireland.
Sinn Fein and the SDLP have already seen which way the wind is blowing on these issues.
The DUP will end up losing touch with their base on these issues in the same way the Roman Catholic Church lost touch.
Protestant, unionist women need abortions.
And there are plenty of gay Protestant, unionists too.
The forces which will modernise the laws on these issues in the wee six are going to rise inexorably in the near future and they will rise across all communities.
The backwoodsmen won't be able to hold back the tide forever.
Sid could you do us a favour and drop the Roman bit. It was and is used in a derogatory way by those backwoodsmen that you have described, so there is no need for us to take it on ourselves.
Didn't know that myself, learn something every day..
As much as I don't doubt there may be devout Catholics who'd vote DUP purely on the abortion issue at the same time the DUP voters can't just be solely evangelical, right wing prods as there's every bit as many non attenders/believers in their voting strength as well.
Ian O'g and Arlene may be reading a bit too much into this one priests letter and the power he has over his congregation yet can ignore the other side of the argument that whilst DUP voters won't be moving over to the Shinners, they'll probably vote Alliance or the fence sitting UUP.
Quote from: johnnycool on June 05, 2018, 01:41:07 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on June 05, 2018, 12:30:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 05, 2018, 12:17:37 PM
Quote from: longballin on June 05, 2018, 11:54:04 AM
Is the rush of Catholics to vote DUP being overstated? I see Bernie Smyth siddling up to Ian og on the front of the Irish News. The party that supported shoot to kill and whose founder ridiculed the pope as an 'anti Christ'. What I have lived to see.
It seems to me there's a cohort of conservative Roman Catholics in the wee six - plenty on this forum - that have far more in common with the DUP than they do with the vast majority of Roman Catholics both in the wee six and in the Republic who don't take religion very seriously.
But abortion and to a lesser extent same sex marriage are issues which could deeply undermine unionism and particularly the DUP.
There is huge public support for reform of abortion laws in Northern Ireland.
Sinn Fein and the SDLP have already seen which way the wind is blowing on these issues.
The DUP will end up losing touch with their base on these issues in the same way the Roman Catholic Church lost touch.
Protestant, unionist women need abortions.
And there are plenty of gay Protestant, unionists too.
The forces which will modernise the laws on these issues in the wee six are going to rise inexorably in the near future and they will rise across all communities.
The backwoodsmen won't be able to hold back the tide forever.
Sid could you do us a favour and drop the Roman bit. It was and is used in a derogatory way by those backwoodsmen that you have described, so there is no need for us to take it on ourselves.
Didn't know that myself, learn something every day..
As much as I don't doubt there may be devout Catholics who'd vote DUP purely on the abortion issue at the same time the DUP voters can't just be solely evangelical, right wing prods as there's every bit as many non attenders/believers in their voting strength as well.
Ian O'g and Arlene may be reading a bit too much into this one priests letter and the power he has over his congregation yet can ignore the other side of the argument that whilst DUP voters won't be moving over to the Shinners, they'll probably vote Alliance or the fence sitting UUP.
If and I say it is a big IF this priest's letter exists and if Ian Og publishes it, I think it could cause more trouble for that parish than they realise. I would think the priest would come under severe pressure to be moved at the least.
SF I think have missed the trick on this one, there are lots of moderate Catholics who can see the progressive side of this and are willing to accept the will of the majority, but SF's celebratory tones after the result have angered a lot of these people.
Regardless of the outcome this was not an issue to be striking such tones over.
Quote from: longballin on June 05, 2018, 12:13:24 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on June 05, 2018, 12:06:20 PM
Christ, you haven't actually fallen for it, have you??
I doubt there will be huge numbers but obviously there are some.
Minuscule amounts who are a bit touched - like (second generation) immigrant 'britain first' voters
The numbers would not be significant enough to sway any electoral mathematics I shouldn't think.
(Is it electoral mathematics or electoral math? I was going to say electoral math but figured it was a Yank term)
Maths please.
Sums.
Official name is "the Catholic Church" the Roman part is an adjective to differentiate from other churches that use the same name, and is so called because the Bishop of Rome leads the church.
It is viewed in many cases as a derogatory term, but not always, as the church itself does use the term in its own literature.
Quote from: johnnycool on June 05, 2018, 01:41:07 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on June 05, 2018, 12:30:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 05, 2018, 12:17:37 PM
Quote from: longballin on June 05, 2018, 11:54:04 AM
Is the rush of Catholics to vote DUP being overstated? I see Bernie Smyth siddling up to Ian og on the front of the Irish News. The party that supported shoot to kill and whose founder ridiculed the pope as an 'anti Christ'. What I have lived to see.
It seems to me there's a cohort of conservative Roman Catholics in the wee six - plenty on this forum - that have far more in common with the DUP than they do with the vast majority of Roman Catholics both in the wee six and in the Republic who don't take religion very seriously.
But abortion and to a lesser extent same sex marriage are issues which could deeply undermine unionism and particularly the DUP.
There is huge public support for reform of abortion laws in Northern Ireland.
Sinn Fein and the SDLP have already seen which way the wind is blowing on these issues.
The DUP will end up losing touch with their base on these issues in the same way the Roman Catholic Church lost touch.
Protestant, unionist women need abortions.
And there are plenty of gay Protestant, unionists too.
The forces which will modernise the laws on these issues in the wee six are going to rise inexorably in the near future and they will rise across all communities.
The backwoodsmen won't be able to hold back the tide forever.
Sid could you do us a favour and drop the Roman bit. It was and is used in a derogatory way by those backwoodsmen that you have described, so there is no need for us to take it on ourselves.
Didn't know that myself, learn something every day..
As much as I don't doubt there may be devout Catholics who'd vote DUP purely on the abortion issue at the same time the DUP voters can't just be solely evangelical, right wing prods as there's every bit as many non attenders/believers in their voting strength as well.
Ian O'g and Arlene may be reading a bit too much into this one priests letter and the power he has over his congregation yet can ignore the other side of the argument that whilst DUP voters won't be moving over to the Shinners, they'll probably vote Alliance or the fence sitting UUP.
Or alternatively they don't believe what they are saying and it is just a pr stunt....
Put them on the spot to share their views on catholicism with the world and then see how many votes they get.
Nothing said about the DUP voters who might not agree with the party on this issue and sent a wee letter to Ian Paisley Jnr or Arlene Foster to say they are going to vote Sinn Fein or the SDLP now? It's not always one-way traffic, as I know a former Unionist voter who decided to change his views on constitutional issues and vote Sinn Fein now.
I believe Sammy was at a committee of pro abortionists in Westminister today and his "direct" approach did not quite go down well. He likes to give it, but may not be as keen to take it.
I'd highly doubt there's too many. I'll admit not too sure I agree with abortions, it just doesn't sit right with me, I'm not religious I don't really believe in god. But I believe fully in a United ireland and disagreement on one issue with Sinn Fein won't make me want to be a unionist all of a sudden. Not everyone can agree fully with every political party policy, you just have to associate yourself with the one where you agree mostly with. For me it's sinn Fein.
While I agree with DUPs stance on same sex marriage and abortion, I still wouldn't vote for them. SF and their stance on above certainly don't represent me, and I'll never be voting for them again.
This talk about "if you haven't voted, you can't complain about what's going on". I look at it this way - I don't vote, so the pantomime politics going on, well I'm not responsible for any of it.
Sammy getting a rough ride in the house of commons.
Can't see Arlene and co wanting direct rule so much now!
Lets get the sdlp and the uup back in charge.
I would be against Abortion but realise the current laws are not working and would be in favour of some change. While it's a very emotive issue. I find it hard to believe anyone would vote DUP on this issue alone.
I disagree with SF on almost everything. I still won't be voting DUP.
Quote from: ziggysego on June 05, 2018, 08:46:32 PM
Nothing said about the DUP voters who might not agree with the party on this issue and sent a wee letter to Ian Paisley Jnr or Arlene Foster to say they are going to vote Sinn Fein or the SDLP now? It's not always one-way traffic, as I know a former Unionist voter who decided to change his views on constitutional issues and vote Sinn Fein now.
Exactly, I would say on balance, the DUP lost more voters than it gained on this issue.
Quote from: heganboy on June 05, 2018, 03:48:44 PM
Official name is "the Catholic Church" the Roman part is an adjective to differentiate from other churches that use the same name, and is so called because the Bishop of Rome leads the church.
It is viewed in many cases as a derogatory term, but not always, as the church itself does use the term in its own literature.
When the Irish Census takes place, the options are:
- Roman Catholic
- Church of Ireland
- Islam
- Presbyterian
- Orthodox
- Other religion
- No religion
I wouldn't consider "Roman Catholic" derogatory in the slightest. (Unless maybe when said in a certain tone by certain northern accents!).
Think Roman Catholic becomes derogatory when you have the likes of Gregory Campbell saying it. Catholics don't generally refer to themselves as Roman Catholic.
Quote from: markl121 on June 06, 2018, 02:17:00 PM
Think Roman Catholic becomes derogatory when you have the likes of Gregory Campbell saying it. Catholics don't generally refer to themselves as Roman Catholic.
Think some say Roman Catholic to distinguish from Anglo Catholic (ie Anglicans who consider themselves Catholic).
Sammy the Gammon seems to have no scuples in showcasing the DinosaurUP for the world to see. Normal Brits must surely question why they are underwriting all this.
Quote from: weareros on June 06, 2018, 02:34:23 PM
Quote from: markl121 on June 06, 2018, 02:17:00 PM
Think Roman Catholic becomes derogatory when you have the likes of Gregory Campbell saying it. Catholics don't generally refer to themselves as Roman Catholic.
Think some say Roman Catholic to distinguish from Anglo Catholic (ie Anglicans who consider themselves Catholic).
Sammy the Gammon seems to have no scuples in showcasing the DinosaurUP for the world to see. Normal Brits must surely question why they are underwriting all this.
:o :o
(https://media.giphy.com/media/RUpQW9jwRO4ow/giphy.gif)
everyone is against abortion until the kid is born and they have to look at them. Then you're on your own jack.
where do you think the 100,000 people in NI because of abortion control comes from?
also - quite simply, while I might not be pro abortion- its not my body, and its not my choice, but everyone has a right to their choice.
I think the DUP are playing a dangerous game. You would think they want to keep tight with the Brits until Brexit is resolved at least. They could have been more careful and way less emotive about how they are going to bat about abortion. I would have thought a more strategic thing would be say that it's a matter for discussion by assembly, so let's redouble our efforts etc.. etc..
By roaring and shouting about it they are bringing more attention on the rest of their whacky shite: (Sammy on ethnics, Peter on sending Muslims to the shops, gays repulsing Ian Óg, Poots on creationsim). Arlene getting involved in Scottish Orange Order march adds more fuel.
I mean WTF? Is there no single strategist among them all? I know people caricature this crew but surely someone in the party is saying hold the horses, let's box a bit clever here and stop playing to the caricature?
/Jim.
I hear An Taoiseach is to visit Orange Order HQ.
Will they be able to control their prejudices ?
DUP/SF play the "treatment table" card when things need sorting. No executive suits them both so they can't be blamed for controversial legislation being passed (DUP - SS marriage/abortion, SF - Brexit).
They both know they can do nothing about them, so rather than be blamed afterwards, they have a get out clause of "treatment table" (no executive). That's why you'll see no executive until after abortion, Brexit and gay marriage is wrapped up. So they can both blame the British government.
Then again, the British government have wiped their hands with the North too since 98 in particular, they blame parties here when it suits them.
Quote from: ziggysego on June 05, 2018, 08:46:32 PM
Nothing said about the DUP voters who might not agree with the party on this issue and sent a wee letter to Ian Paisley Jnr or Arlene Foster to say they are going to vote Sinn Fein or the SDLP now? It's not always one-way traffic, as I know a former Unionist voter who decided to change his views on constitutional issues and vote Sinn Fein now.
"In the BBC survey, 29% of those with a Protestant background defined themselves as Irish, but only 4% of those with a Catholic background identified as British."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44398502
Very interesting.
Who ever thought Peter Robinson would be suggesting periodic border polls?
I don't think he'd even vote for the DUP any more.
The term Roman Catholic to northerners of my generation is seen as a derogatory one, as in "some of my best Friends are Roman Catholic." I said this to a southern friend recently and he was surprised. On abortion, you can't expect political parties to totally reflect your personal views on social and moral issues. The question you should be asking is does that policy force me to do something against my will, ie have an abortion, marry somone of your own sex etc... If not then what is the issue, other than you making a judgement which runs contrary to the teaching of Christ for compassion and forgiveness.
Quote from: ziggysego on June 08, 2018, 09:03:25 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 05, 2018, 08:46:32 PM
Nothing said about the DUP voters who might not agree with the party on this issue and sent a wee letter to Ian Paisley Jnr or Arlene Foster to say they are going to vote Sinn Fein or the SDLP now? It's not always one-way traffic, as I know a former Unionist voter who decided to change his views on constitutional issues and vote Sinn Fein now.
"In the BBC survey, 29% of those with a Protestant background defined themselves as Irish, but only 4% of those with a Catholic background identified as British."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44398502
Identity crisis 101 = asking someone born and brought up anywhere on the island of Ireland how British they feel. Makes about as much sense as asking the same cohort how French do they feel. Britain is the union between England Scotland and Wales, no-one born on the island of Ireland is British. Some may consider themselves UK-ish, and more power to them (metaphorically).
The fact the BBC are putting this out there... Tories chipping away at the "identity" of the statelet? Wouldn't put it past them, they have no affinity for the UK-ish aside from when it is politically pragmatic.
Quote from: tiempo on June 08, 2018, 10:12:31 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 08, 2018, 09:03:25 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 05, 2018, 08:46:32 PM
Nothing said about the DUP voters who might not agree with the party on this issue and sent a wee letter to Ian Paisley Jnr or Arlene Foster to say they are going to vote Sinn Fein or the SDLP now? It's not always one-way traffic, as I know a former Unionist voter who decided to change his views on constitutional issues and vote Sinn Fein now.
"In the BBC survey, 29% of those with a Protestant background defined themselves as Irish, but only 4% of those with a Catholic background identified as British."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44398502
Identity crisis 101 = asking someone born and brought up anywhere on the island of Ireland how British they feel. Makes about as much sense as asking the same cohort how French do they feel. Britain is the union between England Scotland and Wales, no-one born on the island of Ireland is British. Some may consider themselves UK-ish, and more power to them (metaphorically).
The fact the BBC are putting this out there... Tories chipping away at the "identity" of the statelet? Wouldn't put it past them, they have no affinity for the UK-ish aside from when it is politically pragmatic.
Seriously?
You're hanging your hat on an irrelevant labeling technicality? UK ethnicity, NOT British, that should grab a bit of attention and be taken seriously all right!
Ireland is part of the British Isles BTW in the sciences and geography. ;)
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2018, 01:45:40 PM
Quote from: tiempo on June 08, 2018, 10:12:31 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 08, 2018, 09:03:25 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 05, 2018, 08:46:32 PM
Nothing said about the DUP voters who might not agree with the party on this issue and sent a wee letter to Ian Paisley Jnr or Arlene Foster to say they are going to vote Sinn Fein or the SDLP now? It's not always one-way traffic, as I know a former Unionist voter who decided to change his views on constitutional issues and vote Sinn Fein now.
"In the BBC survey, 29% of those with a Protestant background defined themselves as Irish, but only 4% of those with a Catholic background identified as British."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44398502
Identity crisis 101 = asking someone born and brought up anywhere on the island of Ireland how British they feel. Makes about as much sense as asking the same cohort how French do they feel. Britain is the union between England Scotland and Wales, no-one born on the island of Ireland is British. Some may consider themselves UK-ish, and more power to them (metaphorically).
The fact the BBC are putting this out there... Tories chipping away at the "identity" of the statelet? Wouldn't put it past them, they have no affinity for the UK-ish aside from when it is politically pragmatic.
Seriously?
You're hanging your hat on an irrelevant labeling technicality? UK ethnicity, NOT British, that should grab a bit of attention and be taken seriously all right!
Ireland is part of the British Isles BTW in the sciences and geography. ;)
Only the British refer to it as that and Americans who know no better.
Quote from: ziggysego on June 08, 2018, 02:07:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2018, 01:45:40 PM
Quote from: tiempo on June 08, 2018, 10:12:31 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 08, 2018, 09:03:25 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 05, 2018, 08:46:32 PM
Nothing said about the DUP voters who might not agree with the party on this issue and sent a wee letter to Ian Paisley Jnr or Arlene Foster to say they are going to vote Sinn Fein or the SDLP now? It's not always one-way traffic, as I know a former Unionist voter who decided to change his views on constitutional issues and vote Sinn Fein now.
"In the BBC survey, 29% of those with a Protestant background defined themselves as Irish, but only 4% of those with a Catholic background identified as British."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44398502
Identity crisis 101 = asking someone born and brought up anywhere on the island of Ireland how British they feel. Makes about as much sense as asking the same cohort how French do they feel. Britain is the union between England Scotland and Wales, no-one born on the island of Ireland is British. Some may consider themselves UK-ish, and more power to them (metaphorically).
The fact the BBC are putting this out there... Tories chipping away at the "identity" of the statelet? Wouldn't put it past them, they have no affinity for the UK-ish aside from when it is politically pragmatic.
Seriously?
You're hanging your hat on an irrelevant labeling technicality? UK ethnicity, NOT British, that should grab a bit of attention and be taken seriously all right!
Ireland is part of the British Isles BTW in the sciences and geography. ;)
Only the British refer to it as that and Americans who know no better.
Really? I must have been dreaming when I heard former GAA president Sean Kelly use this very term from the podium in Semple Stadium, so.
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2018, 01:45:40 PM
Quote from: tiempo on June 08, 2018, 10:12:31 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 08, 2018, 09:03:25 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 05, 2018, 08:46:32 PM
Nothing said about the DUP voters who might not agree with the party on this issue and sent a wee letter to Ian Paisley Jnr or Arlene Foster to say they are going to vote Sinn Fein or the SDLP now? It's not always one-way traffic, as I know a former Unionist voter who decided to change his views on constitutional issues and vote Sinn Fein now.
"In the BBC survey, 29% of those with a Protestant background defined themselves as Irish, but only 4% of those with a Catholic background identified as British."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44398502
Identity crisis 101 = asking someone born and brought up anywhere on the island of Ireland how British they feel. Makes about as much sense as asking the same cohort how French do they feel. Britain is the union between England Scotland and Wales, no-one born on the island of Ireland is British. Some may consider themselves UK-ish, and more power to them (metaphorically).
The fact the BBC are putting this out there... Tories chipping away at the "identity" of the statelet? Wouldn't put it past them, they have no affinity for the UK-ish aside from when it is politically pragmatic.
Seriously?
You're hanging your hat on an irrelevant labeling technicality? UK ethnicity, NOT British, that should grab a bit of attention and be taken seriously all right!
Ireland is part of the British Isles BTW in the sciences and geography. ;)
How is it irrelevant that the people obsessed with being seen as more British than the British aren't actually British. Stockholm syndrome 101. Add to that their forefathers/representatives oversaw a programme of state sponsored sectarian oppression against the native population in order to progress a land-grab/pogrom.
There's no need to hang a hat anywhere and don't be put off by technicalities, lets just agree I'm right on this, unless you can show me otherwise. Congratulations to science and geography, same group of cowboys responsible for naming the Irish Sea?
Put it like this, the British see the UK-ish as Irish and would be shot of the whole lot of them and the gerrymandered statelet in the morning if they could, the UK-ish and Irish are shit on the shoe of the British ruling class, to think otherwise is to underestimate their absolute lack of conscience. They are well on their way to dumping the UK-ish through nefarious political means.
But sure lookit, we'll co-opt them into a new state for all and get on with it.
Quote from: ziggysego on June 08, 2018, 02:07:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2018, 01:45:40 PM
Quote from: tiempo on June 08, 2018, 10:12:31 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 08, 2018, 09:03:25 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 05, 2018, 08:46:32 PM
Nothing said about the DUP voters who might not agree with the party on this issue and sent a wee letter to Ian Paisley Jnr or Arlene Foster to say they are going to vote Sinn Fein or the SDLP now? It's not always one-way traffic, as I know a former Unionist voter who decided to change his views on constitutional issues and vote Sinn Fein now.
"In the BBC survey, 29% of those with a Protestant background defined themselves as Irish, but only 4% of those with a Catholic background identified as British."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44398502
Identity crisis 101 = asking someone born and brought up anywhere on the island of Ireland how British they feel. Makes about as much sense as asking the same cohort how French do they feel. Britain is the union between England Scotland and Wales, no-one born on the island of Ireland is British. Some may consider themselves UK-ish, and more power to them (metaphorically).
The fact the BBC are putting this out there... Tories chipping away at the "identity" of the statelet? Wouldn't put it past them, they have no affinity for the UK-ish aside from when it is politically pragmatic.
Seriously?
You're hanging your hat on an irrelevant labeling technicality? UK ethnicity, NOT British, that should grab a bit of attention and be taken seriously all right!
Ireland is part of the British Isles BTW in the sciences and geography. ;)
Only the British refer to it as that and Americans who know no better.
Not the case. British Isles is all over the natural sciences. The islands are treated as a group in many studies and reviews. The use of the name is simple expediency in the lack of an alternative.
Every time I hear 'British Isles' mentioned, I correct it with 'British & Irish Isles'. It's a lazy description. Does Tory Island belong to Britain? Aran Islands? No and no. So, enough of your British Isles crap.
Quote from: tiempo on June 08, 2018, 02:36:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2018, 01:45:40 PM
Quote from: tiempo on June 08, 2018, 10:12:31 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 08, 2018, 09:03:25 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 05, 2018, 08:46:32 PM
Nothing said about the DUP voters who might not agree with the party on this issue and sent a wee letter to Ian Paisley Jnr or Arlene Foster to say they are going to vote Sinn Fein or the SDLP now? It's not always one-way traffic, as I know a former Unionist voter who decided to change his views on constitutional issues and vote Sinn Fein now.
"In the BBC survey, 29% of those with a Protestant background defined themselves as Irish, but only 4% of those with a Catholic background identified as British."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44398502
Identity crisis 101 = asking someone born and brought up anywhere on the island of Ireland how British they feel. Makes about as much sense as asking the same cohort how French do they feel. Britain is the union between England Scotland and Wales, no-one born on the island of Ireland is British. Some may consider themselves UK-ish, and more power to them (metaphorically).
The fact the BBC are putting this out there... Tories chipping away at the "identity" of the statelet? Wouldn't put it past them, they have no affinity for the UK-ish aside from when it is politically pragmatic.
Seriously?
You're hanging your hat on an irrelevant labeling technicality? UK ethnicity, NOT British, that should grab a bit of attention and be taken seriously all right!
Ireland is part of the British Isles BTW in the sciences and geography. ;)
How is it irrelevant that the people obsessed with being seen as more British than the British aren't actually British. Stockholm syndrome 101. Add to that their forefathers/representatives oversaw a programme of state sponsored sectarian oppression against the native population in order to progress a land-grab/pogrom.
There's no need to hang a hat anywhere and don't be put off by technicalities, lets just agree I'm right on this, unless you can show me otherwise. Congratulations to science and geography, same group of cowboys responsible for naming the Irish Sea?
Put it like this, the British see the UK-ish as Irish and would be shot of the whole lot of them and the gerrymandered statelet in the morning if they could, the UK-ish and Irish are shit on the shoe of the British ruling class, to think otherwise is to underestimate their absolute lack of conscience. They are well on their way to dumping the UK-ish through nefarious political means.
But sure lookit, we'll co-opt them into a new state for all and get on with it.
So you ARE actually serious with this "argument"!
It's irrelevant in that your ridiculous, if inconsequential, nit pick doesn't mean a thing in the real world. We all know what is meant by their classing themselves as British. If you want to debate that it's an invalid label, knock yourself out, but I seriously doubt many people give a bollocks.
Put it this way, what would classifying themselves as UK- ish change?
It's certainly not going to change their ethnic identity or national affiliation.
Britain is comprised of England and Wales., Great Britain is England, Wales and Scotland.
Quote from: BennyCake on June 08, 2018, 04:43:30 PM
Every time I hear 'British Isles' mentioned, I correct it with 'British & Irish Isles'. It's a lazy description. Does Tory Island belong to Britain? Aran Islands? No and no. So, enough of your British Isles crap.
It's not MY crap.
I'm simply stating a fact.
Although I am guilty of not really giving a shit if the discussion was about the biogeography of the British Isles or the geological evolution of the British Isles.
It's not a political forum.
I would add to the previous that Irish natural science issues are generally dealt with on a whole island basis and I don't recall ever hearing complaints from those of a unionist persuasion. Political boundaries are irrelevant in that context.
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2018, 04:48:11 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 08, 2018, 04:43:30 PM
Every time I hear 'British Isles' mentioned, I correct it with 'British & Irish Isles'. It's a lazy description. Does Tory Island belong to Britain? Aran Islands? No and no. So, enough of your British Isles crap.
It's not MY crap.
I'm simply stating a fact.
Although I am guilty of not really giving a shit if the discussion was about the biogeography of the British Isles or the geological evolution of the British Isles.
It's not a political forum.
I was getting at Britain rather than you ;)
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2018, 04:44:21 PM
Quote from: tiempo on June 08, 2018, 02:36:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2018, 01:45:40 PM
Quote from: tiempo on June 08, 2018, 10:12:31 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 08, 2018, 09:03:25 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 05, 2018, 08:46:32 PM
Nothing said about the DUP voters who might not agree with the party on this issue and sent a wee letter to Ian Paisley Jnr or Arlene Foster to say they are going to vote Sinn Fein or the SDLP now? It's not always one-way traffic, as I know a former Unionist voter who decided to change his views on constitutional issues and vote Sinn Fein now.
"In the BBC survey, 29% of those with a Protestant background defined themselves as Irish, but only 4% of those with a Catholic background identified as British."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44398502
Identity crisis 101 = asking someone born and brought up anywhere on the island of Ireland how British they feel. Makes about as much sense as asking the same cohort how French do they feel. Britain is the union between England Scotland and Wales, no-one born on the island of Ireland is British. Some may consider themselves UK-ish, and more power to them (metaphorically).
The fact the BBC are putting this out there... Tories chipping away at the "identity" of the statelet? Wouldn't put it past them, they have no affinity for the UK-ish aside from when it is politically pragmatic.
Seriously?
You're hanging your hat on an irrelevant labeling technicality? UK ethnicity, NOT British, that should grab a bit of attention and be taken seriously all right!
Ireland is part of the British Isles BTW in the sciences and geography. ;)
How is it irrelevant that the people obsessed with being seen as more British than the British aren't actually British. Stockholm syndrome 101. Add to that their forefathers/representatives oversaw a programme of state sponsored sectarian oppression against the native population in order to progress a land-grab/pogrom.
There's no need to hang a hat anywhere and don't be put off by technicalities, lets just agree I'm right on this, unless you can show me otherwise. Congratulations to science and geography, same group of cowboys responsible for naming the Irish Sea?
Put it like this, the British see the UK-ish as Irish and would be shot of the whole lot of them and the gerrymandered statelet in the morning if they could, the UK-ish and Irish are shit on the shoe of the British ruling class, to think otherwise is to underestimate their absolute lack of conscience. They are well on their way to dumping the UK-ish through nefarious political means.
But sure lookit, we'll co-opt them into a new state for all and get on with it.
So you ARE actually serious with this "argument"!
It's irrelevant in that your ridiculous, if inconsequential, nit pick doesn't mean a thing in the real world. We all know what is meant by their classing themselves as British. If you want to debate that it's an invalid label, knock yourself out, but I seriously doubt many people give a bollocks.
Put it this way, what would classifying themselves as UK- ish change?
It's certainly not going to change their ethnic identity or national affiliation.
I'm not in a position of needing to aruge, no-one born on the island of Ireland is British, fact, and i know you understand that. Better still when partition is ended Britain will still exist but the UK won't.
Just look at the lobbying by northern Unionist politicians to have the olympic team name changed from Team GB to Team UK, they know full well the narrow confines of technicalities in which they exist. And was the team name changed? Of course not because no-one in the British ruling class cares about the gerrymandered statelet.
CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES
1. The participants endorse the commitment made by the British and Irish
Governments that, in a new British-Irish Agreement replacing the Anglo-
Irish Agreement, they will:
...
(vi) recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to
identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they
may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both
British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would
not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.
Quote from: tiempo on June 08, 2018, 07:42:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2018, 04:44:21 PM
Quote from: tiempo on June 08, 2018, 02:36:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2018, 01:45:40 PM
Quote from: tiempo on June 08, 2018, 10:12:31 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 08, 2018, 09:03:25 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 05, 2018, 08:46:32 PM
Nothing said about the DUP voters who might not agree with the party on this issue and sent a wee letter to Ian Paisley Jnr or Arlene Foster to say they are going to vote Sinn Fein or the SDLP now? It's not always one-way traffic, as I know a former Unionist voter who decided to change his views on constitutional issues and vote Sinn Fein now.
"In the BBC survey, 29% of those with a Protestant background defined themselves as Irish, but only 4% of those with a Catholic background identified as British."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44398502
Identity crisis 101 = asking someone born and brought up anywhere on the island of Ireland how British they feel. Makes about as much sense as asking the same cohort how French do they feel. Britain is the union between England Scotland and Wales, no-one born on the island of Ireland is British. Some may consider themselves UK-ish, and more power to them (metaphorically).
The fact the BBC are putting this out there... Tories chipping away at the "identity" of the statelet? Wouldn't put it past them, they have no affinity for the UK-ish aside from when it is politically pragmatic.
Seriously?
You're hanging your hat on an irrelevant labeling technicality? UK ethnicity, NOT British, that should grab a bit of attention and be taken seriously all right!
Ireland is part of the British Isles BTW in the sciences and geography. ;)
How is it irrelevant that the people obsessed with being seen as more British than the British aren't actually British. Stockholm syndrome 101. Add to that their forefathers/representatives oversaw a programme of state sponsored sectarian oppression against the native population in order to progress a land-grab/pogrom.
There's no need to hang a hat anywhere and don't be put off by technicalities, lets just agree I'm right on this, unless you can show me otherwise. Congratulations to science and geography, same group of cowboys responsible for naming the Irish Sea?
Put it like this, the British see the UK-ish as Irish and would be shot of the whole lot of them and the gerrymandered statelet in the morning if they could, the UK-ish and Irish are shit on the shoe of the British ruling class, to think otherwise is to underestimate their absolute lack of conscience. They are well on their way to dumping the UK-ish through nefarious political means.
But sure lookit, we'll co-opt them into a new state for all and get on with it.
So you ARE actually serious with this "argument"!
It's irrelevant in that your ridiculous, if inconsequential, nit pick doesn't mean a thing in the real world. We all know what is meant by their classing themselves as British. If you want to debate that it's an invalid label, knock yourself out, but I seriously doubt many people give a bollocks.
Put it this way, what would classifying themselves as UK- ish change?
It's certainly not going to change their ethnic identity or national affiliation.
I'm not in a position of needing to aruge, no-one born on the island of Ireland is British, fact, and i know you understand that. Better still when partition is ended Britain will still exist but the UK won't.
Just look at the lobbying by northern Unionist politicians to have the olympic team name changed from Team GB to Team UK, they know full well the narrow confines of technicalities in which they exist. And was the team name changed? Of course not because no-one in the British ruling class cares about the gerrymandered statelet.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/british (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/british)
https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-nationality (https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-nationality)
But I ask again, what difference does it make, in the real world, outside of whatever semantic hold this apparently has on you, whether or not a unionist goes by the label British or UKish?
I'd say Tiempo will have an unmercifully fit if he lives to see the tyoe of All Ireland State we'll end up with😁😂
The DUP's reaching out in July hasn't lasted. Arlene on holiday next week and no one else heading down to me the pope. Every other party and church can get someone to attend.
They will all be sitting watching when Paisley met the pope instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlbmIMbKZa4
Quote from: pbat on August 17, 2018, 07:17:49 PM
The DUP's reaching out in July hasn't lasted. Arlene on holiday next week and no one else heading down to me the pope. Every other party and church can get someone to attend.
They will all be sitting watching when Paisley met the pope instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlbmIMbKZa4
All about keeping the votes.
Quote from: GJL on August 17, 2018, 08:40:22 PM
Quote from: pbat on August 17, 2018, 07:17:49 PM
The DUP's reaching out in July hasn't lasted. Arlene on holiday next week and no one else heading down to me the pope. Every other party and church can get someone to attend.
They will all be sitting watching when Paisley met the pope instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlbmIMbKZa4
All about keeping the votes.
This kind of carry on would lose as many votes as it would keep.
Any one going to the see the pope wants a kick in the hole and should take a serious look at themselves based on latest revelations and stop looking to be offended by DUP Neanderthals
Quote from: Itchy on August 17, 2018, 11:18:04 PM
Any one going to the see the pope wants a kick in the hole and should take a serious look at themselves based on latest revelations and stop looking to be offended by DUP Neanderthals
As an a la carte once or twice a year catholic, seeing the pope has no real appeal to me. but many catholics feel differently. I will credit this pope with trying to force the church to face up to the scandals and trying to do the right thing, very often in the face of opposition from more conservative elements. The DUP and UUP leaders have shown their true colours in not meeting the Pope, and it is not surprising if disappointing. For me the Pope must meet the survivors of abuse and I know he has issued apologies before, but now is the time for action in driving further reform, opening up the church to all including a greater role for women, and a harder line on scandal hit prelates.
I think he said he was going to meet some abuse victims?
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 18, 2018, 09:01:27 AM
I think he said he was going to meet some abuse victims?
He would need to grovel.
Quote from: tiempo on June 08, 2018, 07:42:15 PM
no-one born on the island of Ireland is british. Fact.
you see that is where you go wrong. At the very beginning. The word for what in your head is UKish is British. This is not a difficult concept and it would be embarrassing for you if you were to make this mistake again and worrying for those who care about you
Quote from: Rossfan on June 09, 2018, 12:53:36 PM
I'd say Tiempo will have an unmercifully fit if he lives to see the tyoe of All Ireland State we'll end up with😁😂
Tiempo would not be on his own. There is still widespread ignorance in NI about what the GFA actually says. When Stormont's executive collapsed SF called for joint authority. If they know what the GFA actually states then they would know that there is no proviso for joint authority. Stormont is here for ever. If it doesn't work then as long as we are in the Uk power reverts to Westminster. In a UI scenario Stormont remains in play and in a collapsed scenario power reverts to Dublin with the British government playing the role currently occupied by Coveney et all.
In answer to the thread title it is inevitable that some catholics will vote DUP and do so for religious reasons.
After all if they can make you believe absurdities they can make you commit atrocities
Quote from: smelmoth on August 18, 2018, 10:50:18 AM
Quote from: tiempo on June 08, 2018, 07:42:15 PM
no-one born on the island of Ireland is british. Fact.
you see that is where you go wrong. At the very beginning. The word for what in your head is UKish is British. This is not a difficult concept and it would be embarrassing for you if you were to make this mistake again and worrying for those who care about you
The fact that is the case reflects the colonial nature of the state.
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 18, 2018, 08:59:58 AM
Quote from: Itchy on August 17, 2018, 11:18:04 PM
Any one going to the see the pope wants a kick in the hole and should take a serious look at themselves based on latest revelations and stop looking to be offended by DUP Neanderthals
As an a la carte once or twice a year catholic, seeing the pope has no real appeal to me. but many catholics feel differently. I will credit this pope with trying to force the church to face up to the scandals and trying to do the right thing, very often in the face of opposition from more conservative elements. The DUP and UUP leaders have shown their true colours in not meeting the Pope, and it is not surprising if disappointing. For me the Pope must meet the survivors of abuse and I know he has issued apologies before, but now is the time for action in driving further reform, opening up the church to all including a greater role for women, and a harder line on scandal hit prelates.
Educate yourself lad to whom is in this popes inner circle and who covered up abuse and then realise the only thing any pope is really interested in is the retention of the power of the church
Quote from: armaghniac on August 18, 2018, 12:43:49 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on August 18, 2018, 10:50:18 AM
Quote from: tiempo on June 08, 2018, 07:42:15 PM
no-one born on the island of Ireland is british. Fact.
you see that is where you go wrong. At the very beginning. The word for what in your head is UKish is British. This is not a difficult concept and it would be embarrassing for you if you were to make this mistake again and worrying for those who care about you
The fact that is the case reflects the colonial nature of the state.
It certainly reflects the colonial history of the nation
Quote from: Itchy on August 18, 2018, 02:06:34 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 18, 2018, 08:59:58 AM
Quote from: Itchy on August 17, 2018, 11:18:04 PM
Any one going to the see the pope wants a kick in the hole and should take a serious look at themselves based on latest revelations and stop looking to be offended by DUP Neanderthals
As an a la carte once or twice a year catholic, seeing the pope has no real appeal to me. but many catholics feel differently. I will credit this pope with trying to force the church to face up to the scandals and trying to do the right thing, very often in the face of opposition from more conservative elements. The DUP and UUP leaders have shown their true colours in not meeting the Pope, and it is not surprising if disappointing. For me the Pope must meet the survivors of abuse and I know he has issued apologies before, but now is the time for action in driving further reform, opening up the church to all including a greater role for women, and a harder line on scandal hit prelates.
Educate yourself lad to whom is in this popes inner circle and who covered up abuse and then realise the only thing any pope is really interested in is the retention of the power of the church
The pope only has to one thing to show that he is giving the abuse scandal the appropriate response. He just has to decree and back up that:
1) All who know of abuse and are not declaring it to the appropriate legal authorities and
2) All who sheltered assets from bodies to allocate compensation to victims
Will be excommunicated
It's simple and any failure means it's not being taken seriously
Quote from: smelmoth on August 18, 2018, 06:05:32 PM
Quote from: Itchy on August 18, 2018, 02:06:34 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 18, 2018, 08:59:58 AM
Quote from: Itchy on August 17, 2018, 11:18:04 PM
Any one going to the see the pope wants a kick in the hole and should take a serious look at themselves based on latest revelations and stop looking to be offended by DUP Neanderthals
As an a la carte once or twice a year catholic, seeing the pope has no real appeal to me. but many catholics feel differently. I will credit this pope with trying to force the church to face up to the scandals and trying to do the right thing, very often in the face of opposition from more conservative elements. The DUP and UUP leaders have shown their true colours in not meeting the Pope, and it is not surprising if disappointing. For me the Pope must meet the survivors of abuse and I know he has issued apologies before, but now is the time for action in driving further reform, opening up the church to all including a greater role for women, and a harder line on scandal hit prelates.
Educate yourself lad to whom is in this popes inner circle and who covered up abuse and then realise the only thing any pope is really interested in is the retention of the power of the church
The pope only has to one thing to show that he is giving the abuse scandal the appropriate response. He just has to decree and back up that:
1) All who know of abuse and are not declaring it to the appropriate legal authorities and
2) All who sheltered assets from bodies to allocate compensation to victims
Will be excommunicated and reported to the civil authorities.
All relevant documentation will be handed over to the prosecution. Lay and clerical members of the church with knowledge of the crimes will be required by church edict to give evidence in any criminal proceedings.
It's simple and any failure means it's not being taken seriously
I'd go a good bit further, as added above.
Quote from: Hardy on August 18, 2018, 07:06:35 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on August 18, 2018, 06:05:32 PM
Quote from: Itchy on August 18, 2018, 02:06:34 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 18, 2018, 08:59:58 AM
Quote from: Itchy on August 17, 2018, 11:18:04 PM
Any one going to the see the pope wants a kick in the hole and should take a serious look at themselves based on latest revelations and stop looking to be offended by DUP Neanderthals
As an a la carte once or twice a year catholic, seeing the pope has no real appeal to me. but many catholics feel differently. I will credit this pope with trying to force the church to face up to the scandals and trying to do the right thing, very often in the face of opposition from more conservative elements. The DUP and UUP leaders have shown their true colours in not meeting the Pope, and it is not surprising if disappointing. For me the Pope must meet the survivors of abuse and I know he has issued apologies before, but now is the time for action in driving further reform, opening up the church to all including a greater role for women, and a harder line on scandal hit prelates.
Educate yourself lad to whom is in this popes inner circle and who covered up abuse and then realise the only thing any pope is really interested in is the retention of the power of the church
The pope only has to one thing to show that he is giving the abuse scandal the appropriate response. He just has to decree and back up that:
1) All who know of abuse and are not declaring it to the appropriate legal authorities and
2) All who sheltered assets from bodies to allocate compensation to victims
Will be excommunicated and reported to the civil authorities.
All relevant documentation will be handed over to the prosecution. Lay and clerical members of the church with knowledge of the crimes will be required by church edict to give evidence in any criminal proceedings.
It's simple and any failure means it's not being taken seriously
I'd go a good bit further, as added above.
Im right there with you but I've made the first step so easy that any refusal to do exposes the organisation as morally bankrupt and the pope personally as morally bankrupt.
Are both not taken as read nowadays?
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on August 18, 2018, 07:53:49 PM
Are both not taken as read nowadays?
A re-validation of the proof is important.
A re-validation of the proof against the pope personally is also timely. His morality is putrid and yet we will witness a hero's welcome and the conscription of school children to the visual appearance of mass consent and moral approval
Here is one of the key note speakers at the world meeting of families, the event that coincides with the popes visit...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/pennsylvania-s-predatory-priests-the-cardinal-wuerl-connection-1.3599790
Does it sound to any of you like much has changed, to be lectured on the family by this sc**bag.
Quote from: Itchy on August 18, 2018, 10:27:33 PM
Here is one of the key note speakers at the world meeting of families, the event that coincides with the popes visit...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/pennsylvania-s-predatory-priests-the-cardinal-wuerl-connection-1.3599790
Does it sound to any of you like much has changed, to be lectured on the family by this sc**bag.
If I contacted some of his victims and they made a complaint against him, and I then reported his presence in this country to the Garda, could he be arrested?
Quote from: Hardy on August 19, 2018, 12:42:29 AM
Quote from: Itchy on August 18, 2018, 10:27:33 PM
Here is one of the key note speakers at the world meeting of families, the event that coincides with the popes visit...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/pennsylvania-s-predatory-priests-the-cardinal-wuerl-connection-1.3599790
Does it sound to any of you like much has changed, to be lectured on the family by this sc**bag.
If I contacted some of his victims and they made a complaint against him, and I then reported his presence in this country to the Garda, could he be arrested?
I'm sure the gardai would find a reaaon not tyo arrest him
Quote from: Itchy on August 19, 2018, 08:49:50 AM
Quote from: Hardy on August 19, 2018, 12:42:29 AM
Quote from: Itchy on August 18, 2018, 10:27:33 PM
Here is one of the key note speakers at the world meeting of families, the event that coincides with the popes visit...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/pennsylvania-s-predatory-priests-the-cardinal-wuerl-connection-1.3599790
Does it sound to any of you like much has changed, to be lectured on the family by this sc**bag.
If I contacted some of his victims and they made a complaint against him, and I then reported his presence in this country to the Garda, could he be arrested?
I'm sure the gardai would find a reaaon not tyo arrest him
That is a matter for the Pennsylvania authorities, who seem to be on the case.
Quote from: Hardy on August 19, 2018, 12:42:29 AM
Quote from: Itchy on August 18, 2018, 10:27:33 PM
Here is one of the key note speakers at the world meeting of families, the event that coincides with the popes visit...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/pennsylvania-s-predatory-priests-the-cardinal-wuerl-connection-1.3599790
Does it sound to any of you like much has changed, to be lectured on the family by this sc**bag.
If I contacted some of his victims and they made a complaint against him, and I then reported his presence in this country to the Garda, could he be arrested?
Somehow I doubt it.
It seems he has pulled out of the event with no explanation from Vatican
Quote from: Itchy on August 18, 2018, 02:06:34 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 18, 2018, 08:59:58 AM
Quote from: Itchy on August 17, 2018, 11:18:04 PM
Any one going to the see the pope wants a kick in the hole and should take a serious look at themselves based on latest revelations and stop looking to be offended by DUP Neanderthals
As an a la carte once or twice a year catholic, seeing the pope has no real appeal to me. but many catholics feel differently. I will credit this pope with trying to force the church to face up to the scandals and trying to do the right thing, very often in the face of opposition from more conservative elements. The DUP and UUP leaders have shown their true colours in not meeting the Pope, and it is not surprising if disappointing. For me the Pope must meet the survivors of abuse and I know he has issued apologies before, but now is the time for action in driving further reform, opening up the church to all including a greater role for women, and a harder line on scandal hit prelates.
Educate yourself lad to whom is in this popes inner circle and who covered up abuse and then realise the only thing any pope is really interested in is the retention of the power of the church
That may be, and I alluded to it but change has to come from within. Eamonn Martin said the other day and he is right, that the church must adapt to a new found minority status. I would go further and say that with the average age of a priest hitting 70 the church will have to get used to bringing the faithful with it, as it no longer has the power to command and that is no bad thing.
1) are there Catholics who vote for the DUP?
2) are there Catholics who attend and celebrate Twelfth parades?
Quote from: Orior on August 21, 2018, 11:06:43 AM
1) are there Catholics who vote for the DUP?
2) are there Catholics who attend and celebrate Twelfth parades?
1)I'm sure there could be. Number doing so likely to negligibly small.
2) I'd say some go to observe or check out from interest point of view. Can't imagine any going to 'celebrate' given the fact the OO is exclusively protestant.
Quote from: Orior on August 21, 2018, 11:06:43 AM
1) are there Catholics who vote for the DUP?
2) are there Catholics who attend and celebrate Twelfth parades?
1. Doubt it
2. Plenty get stuck in their cars waiting for them to pass by.
Quote from: Orior on August 21, 2018, 11:06:43 AM
1) are there Catholics who vote for the DUP?
2) are there Catholics who attend and celebrate Twelfth parades?
1. There are bound to be some, but an infinitesimally small proportion of the population, a couple of hundred at the most.
2. Fewer than 1).
Quote from: AQMP on August 21, 2018, 04:21:32 PM
Quote from: Orior on August 21, 2018, 11:06:43 AM
1) are there Catholics who vote for the DUP?
2) are there Catholics who attend and celebrate Twelfth parades?
1. There are bound to be some, but an infinitesimally small proportion of the population, a couple of hundred at the most.
2. Fewer than 1).
So it is either the Landed Gentry who, through some fluke in the breeding process, converted to catholism, or modern English whose work brought them here and live in Cultra and are anglo catholic. Fair play to the OO for seeking these people out and counting them.
Quote from: smelmoth on August 18, 2018, 10:50:18 AM
Quote from: tiempo on June 08, 2018, 07:42:15 PM
no-one born on the island of Ireland is british. Fact.
you see that is where you go wrong. At the very beginning. The word for what in your head is UKish is British. This is not a difficult concept and it would be embarrassing for you if you were to make this mistake again and worrying for those who care about you
https://soundcloud.com/thestandwitheamondunphy/ep-211-robert-fisk-on-the-age-of-trump
36mins 20sec if you want to hear it from the mouth of a British subject. Way and lie down you quisling.
Quote from: tiempo on August 22, 2018, 05:40:29 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on August 18, 2018, 10:50:18 AM
Quote from: tiempo on June 08, 2018, 07:42:15 PM
no-one born on the island of Ireland is british. Fact.
you see that is where you go wrong. At the very beginning. The word for what in your head is UKish is British. This is not a difficult concept and it would be embarrassing for you if you were to make this mistake again and worrying for those who care about you
https://soundcloud.com/thestandwitheamondunphy/ep-211-robert-fisk-on-the-age-of-trump
36mins 20sec if you want to hear it from the mouth of a British subject. Way and lie down you quisling.
Just because you don't live on the island of Great Britain, doesn't mean that you cannot be British. Does that mean that folk on Aran Island are not Irish?
Quote from: michaelg on August 22, 2018, 06:04:49 PM
Quote from: tiempo on August 22, 2018, 05:40:29 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on August 18, 2018, 10:50:18 AM
Quote from: tiempo on June 08, 2018, 07:42:15 PM
no-one born on the island of Ireland is british. Fact.
you see that is where you go wrong. At the very beginning. The word for what in your head is UKish is British. This is not a difficult concept and it would be embarrassing for you if you were to make this mistake again and worrying for those who care about you
https://soundcloud.com/thestandwitheamondunphy/ep-211-robert-fisk-on-the-age-of-trump
36mins 20sec if you want to hear it from the mouth of a British subject. Way and lie down you quisling.
Just because you don't live on the island of Great Britain, doesn't mean that you cannot be British. Does that mean that folk on Aran Island are not Irish?
https://youtu.be/zrWoG8IckyE
Quote from: tiempo on August 22, 2018, 06:41:49 PM
Quote from: michaelg on August 22, 2018, 06:04:49 PM
Quote from: tiempo on August 22, 2018, 05:40:29 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on August 18, 2018, 10:50:18 AM
Quote from: tiempo on June 08, 2018, 07:42:15 PM
no-one born on the island of Ireland is british. Fact.
you see that is where you go wrong. At the very beginning. The word for what in your head is UKish is British. This is not a difficult concept and it would be embarrassing for you if you were to make this mistake again and worrying for those who care about you
https://soundcloud.com/thestandwitheamondunphy/ep-211-robert-fisk-on-the-age-of-trump
36mins 20sec if you want to hear it from the mouth of a British subject. Way and lie down you quisling.
Just because you don't live on the island of Great Britain, doesn't mean that you cannot be British. Does that mean that folk on Aran Island are not Irish?
https://youtu.be/zrWoG8IckyE
You do realise he was just repeating your argument back to you?
Quote from: tiempo on August 22, 2018, 05:40:29 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on August 18, 2018, 10:50:18 AM
Quote from: tiempo on June 08, 2018, 07:42:15 PM
no-one born on the island of Ireland is british. Fact.
you see that is where you go wrong. At the very beginning. The word for what in your head is UKish is British. This is not a difficult concept and it would be embarrassing for you if you were to make this mistake again and worrying for those who care about you
https://soundcloud.com/thestandwitheamondunphy/ep-211-robert-fisk-on-the-age-of-trump
36mins 20sec if you want to hear it from the mouth of a British subject. Way and lie down you quisling.
I suppose you're going a post now that proves Robert Fisk cannot be wrong?
Anyway thanks for the quisling jibe. It proves all by suspicions
Quote from: smelmoth on August 22, 2018, 07:29:51 PM
Quote from: tiempo on August 22, 2018, 06:41:49 PM
Quote from: michaelg on August 22, 2018, 06:04:49 PM
Quote from: tiempo on August 22, 2018, 05:40:29 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on August 18, 2018, 10:50:18 AM
Quote from: tiempo on June 08, 2018, 07:42:15 PM
no-one born on the island of Ireland is british. Fact.
you see that is where you go wrong. At the very beginning. The word for what in your head is UKish is British. This is not a difficult concept and it would be embarrassing for you if you were to make this mistake again and worrying for those who care about you
https://soundcloud.com/thestandwitheamondunphy/ep-211-robert-fisk-on-the-age-of-trump
36mins 20sec if you want to hear it from the mouth of a British subject. Way and lie down you quisling.
Just because you don't live on the island of Great Britain, doesn't mean that you cannot be British. Does that mean that folk on Aran Island are not Irish?
https://youtu.be/zrWoG8IckyE
You do realise he was just repeating your argument back to you?
The internet equivalent of chicken scratch, what he/she said is indecipherable, literally.
Quote from: smelmoth on August 22, 2018, 07:31:56 PM
Quote from: tiempo on August 22, 2018, 05:40:29 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on August 18, 2018, 10:50:18 AM
Quote from: tiempo on June 08, 2018, 07:42:15 PM
no-one born on the island of Ireland is british. Fact.
you see that is where you go wrong. At the very beginning. The word for what in your head is UKish is British. This is not a difficult concept and it would be embarrassing for you if you were to make this mistake again and worrying for those who care about you
https://soundcloud.com/thestandwitheamondunphy/ep-211-robert-fisk-on-the-age-of-trump
36mins 20sec if you want to hear it from the mouth of a British subject. Way and lie down you quisling.
I suppose you're going a post now that proves Robert Fisk cannot be wrong?
Anyway thanks for the quisling jibe. It proves all by suspicions
I'm glad you agree with me.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/foster-has-blown-an-important-opportunity-by-not-meeting-the-pope-1.3604235?mode=amp
However, there remains an enormous appetite in Northern Ireland for symbolic acts of rapprochement. There have been three such moments since Stormont collapsed: Ian Paisley jnr thanking Martin McGuinness for his leadership and friendship to the Paisley family; Foster and O'Neill shaking hands at McGuinness's funeral; and DUP and Sinn Féin former ministers Edwin Poots and John O'Dowd speaking of the need for reconciliation, after Sinn Féin's Barry McElduff was accused of mocking the Kingsmill massacre. All provoked an outpouring of public emotion. Such acts might not sway a single vote for Sinn Féin and the DUP but they demonstrate the desire for agreement amid the fog of anger, making agreement easier to reach.
Meeting the pope could have been another such a moment, in large part because it is the only unionist gesture comparable to McGuinness's 2012 handshake with the Queen. The sense among republicans in particular that this has never been reciprocated, and that McGuinness had thus been made to look a fool, was no small matter in Stormont's collapse – it was voiced strongly to the Sinn Féin leadership by party members.
Quote from: seafoid on August 23, 2018, 09:57:08 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/foster-has-blown-an-important-opportunity-by-not-meeting-the-pope-1.3604235?mode=amp
However, there remains an enormous appetite in Northern Ireland for symbolic acts of rapprochement. There have been three such moments since Stormont collapsed: Ian Paisley jnr thanking Martin McGuinness for his leadership and friendship to the Paisley family; Foster and O'Neill shaking hands at McGuinness's funeral; and DUP and Sinn Féin former ministers Edwin Poots and John O'Dowd speaking of the need for reconciliation, after Sinn Féin's Barry McElduff was accused of mocking the Kingsmill massacre. All provoked an outpouring of public emotion. Such acts might not sway a single vote for Sinn Féin and the DUP but they demonstrate the desire for agreement amid the fog of anger, making agreement easier to reach.
Meeting the pope could have been another such a moment, in large part because it is the only unionist gesture comparable to McGuinness's 2012 handshake with the Queen. The sense among republicans in particular that this has never been reciprocated, and that McGuinness had thus been made to look a fool, was no small matter in Stormont's collapse – it was voiced strongly to the Sinn Féin leadership by party members.
And not just party members, many ordinary nationalists are flabbergasted by the total lack of respect emanating from Foster and the DUP the supposed leaders of Unionism.
I would think that when Paisely and McGuinness were in charge there would have been some catholic voters in main unionist areas that would have voted DUP to keep that successfull power sharing partnership going, rather having the UUP in.. since that break up I doubt very mucg that any Nationalist or catholic would vote DUP ever again
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 23, 2018, 10:36:06 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 23, 2018, 09:57:08 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/foster-has-blown-an-important-opportunity-by-not-meeting-the-pope-1.3604235?mode=amp
However, there remains an enormous appetite in Northern Ireland for symbolic acts of rapprochement. There have been three such moments since Stormont collapsed: Ian Paisley jnr thanking Martin McGuinness for his leadership and friendship to the Paisley family; Foster and O'Neill shaking hands at McGuinness's funeral; and DUP and Sinn Féin former ministers Edwin Poots and John O'Dowd speaking of the need for reconciliation, after Sinn Féin's Barry McElduff was accused of mocking the Kingsmill massacre. All provoked an outpouring of public emotion. Such acts might not sway a single vote for Sinn Féin and the DUP but they demonstrate the desire for agreement amid the fog of anger, making agreement easier to reach.
Meeting the pope could have been another such a moment, in large part because it is the only unionist gesture comparable to McGuinness's 2012 handshake with the Queen. The sense among republicans in particular that this has never been reciprocated, and that McGuinness had thus been made to look a fool, was no small matter in Stormont's collapse – it was voiced strongly to the Sinn Féin leadership by party members.
And not just party members, many ordinary nationalists are flabbergasted by the total lack of respect emanating from Foster and the DUP the supposed leaders of Unionism.
Both spot on. It always amazes me how a lot of commentators, journos and the "why don't they all just get back to work" brigade seem to ignore this point.
Quote from: AQMP on August 23, 2018, 11:21:32 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 23, 2018, 10:36:06 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 23, 2018, 09:57:08 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/foster-has-blown-an-important-opportunity-by-not-meeting-the-pope-1.3604235?mode=amp
However, there remains an enormous appetite in Northern Ireland for symbolic acts of rapprochement. There have been three such moments since Stormont collapsed: Ian Paisley jnr thanking Martin McGuinness for his leadership and friendship to the Paisley family; Foster and O'Neill shaking hands at McGuinness's funeral; and DUP and Sinn Féin former ministers Edwin Poots and John O'Dowd speaking of the need for reconciliation, after Sinn Féin's Barry McElduff was accused of mocking the Kingsmill massacre. All provoked an outpouring of public emotion. Such acts might not sway a single vote for Sinn Féin and the DUP but they demonstrate the desire for agreement amid the fog of anger, making agreement easier to reach.
Meeting the pope could have been another such a moment, in large part because it is the only unionist gesture comparable to McGuinness's 2012 handshake with the Queen. The sense among republicans in particular that this has never been reciprocated, and that McGuinness had thus been made to look a fool, was no small matter in Stormont's collapse – it was voiced strongly to the Sinn Féin leadership by party members.
And not just party members, many ordinary nationalists are flabbergasted by the total lack of respect emanating from Foster and the DUP the supposed leaders of Unionism.
Both spot on. It always amazes me how a lot of commentators, journos and the "why don't they all just get back to work" brigade seem to ignore this point.
Because there is a spurious equality "one is as bad as the other" put forward all the time.
Quote from: AQMP on August 23, 2018, 11:21:32 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 23, 2018, 10:36:06 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 23, 2018, 09:57:08 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/foster-has-blown-an-important-opportunity-by-not-meeting-the-pope-1.3604235?mode=amp
However, there remains an enormous appetite in Northern Ireland for symbolic acts of rapprochement. There have been three such moments since Stormont collapsed: Ian Paisley jnr thanking Martin McGuinness for his leadership and friendship to the Paisley family; Foster and O'Neill shaking hands at McGuinness's funeral; and DUP and Sinn Féin former ministers Edwin Poots and John O'Dowd speaking of the need for reconciliation, after Sinn Féin's Barry McElduff was accused of mocking the Kingsmill massacre. All provoked an outpouring of public emotion. Such acts might not sway a single vote for Sinn Féin and the DUP but they demonstrate the desire for agreement amid the fog of anger, making agreement easier to reach.
Meeting the pope could have been another such a moment, in large part because it is the only unionist gesture comparable to McGuinness's 2012 handshake with the Queen. The sense among republicans in particular that this has never been reciprocated, and that McGuinness had thus been made to look a fool, was no small matter in Stormont's collapse – it was voiced strongly to the Sinn Féin leadership by party members.
And not just party members, many ordinary nationalists are flabbergasted by the total lack of respect emanating from Foster and the DUP the supposed leaders of Unionism.
Both spot on. It always amazes me how a lot of commentators, journos and the "why don't they all just get back to work" brigade seem to ignore this point.
I still find it galling that the local media still believe that the reason there's no Assembly is purely down to Sinn Feins intransigence surrounding the ILA.
Have they not been commentating on the RHI Inquiry which going by what has been brought out in the open is at best a huge clusterfuck of incompetence and at worst a fraudulent attempt to suck as much money out of Whitehall (initially) as possible and lining mates pockets at will.
I think Arlene stepping down was quite mild of Martin back then as this Inquiry is proving.
Twitter melting by the fact that the DUP have an STD
Quote from: Orior on February 17, 2019, 08:16:15 AM
Twitter melting by the fact that the DUP have an STD
In all honesty, who overviews their campaigns.
Sir Patrick Coghlin maybe?
Quote from: Orior on February 17, 2019, 08:16:15 AM
Twitter melting by the fact that the DUP have an STD
Emma Little Pengelly is the most likely source for STDs according to Ian og.