Sam Maguire Group 2 - Galway, Armagh, Tyrone, Westmeath

[lurganblue]

He punched him surely. Noticed it at the time. It's one of those ones where he knew rightly he would get away with it but if you are clearly caught on camera then you have to deal with the consequences.  He should get a 1 game ban (as much as I would hate that as I think that would be a huge blow to Armagh)

That said, I'm sure there are loads of sly digs to ribs etc in all games that go unpunished and not caught on camera. It's the risk you run if you engage in that behaviour.   For example I stood watching Matty Donnelly choke Forker with 2 hands on 2 occasions in Omagh, not 20 yards from me. No action and no trial by media.

Ahh get away with that there would ye.

It was literally directly in front of me - forker instigated the whole thing - because Armagh were well beat at that stage and were never going to come back, and he wanted to start and stir up stuff.
The two of them had hands on each other. Matty Donnelly is as honest a player you'll get and would not provoke unless provoked.
Forker is what he is - hard enough reliable defender but will never go down as a great in ulster let alone AI history. Has had many a roasting and limitations exposed.

Nonsense.  What did Forker do to instigate being choked... twice?  a bit of goading or slabbering?  Just take it for what it was.  The same way I can see what Forker did last week was wrong. Or Rian too.  Too many supporters put the blinkers on.

[trueblue1234]

To be fair David, it means you can't call out any action ever if you try and use that line of defence. It's a case of muddying the water enough to try and introduce an element of doubt. Every single nasty stroke ever, could use the same defence, no matter how obvious it might look. Sometimes a spade is a spade.

[Redhand Santa]

He punched him surely. Noticed it at the time. It's one of those ones where he knew rightly he would get away with it but if you are clearly caught on camera then you have to deal with the consequences.  He should get a 1 game ban (as much as I would hate that as I think that would be a huge blow to Armagh)

That said, I'm sure there are loads of sly digs to ribs etc in all games that go unpunished and not caught on camera. It's the risk you run if you engage in that behaviour.   For example I stood watching Matty Donnelly choke Forker with 2 hands on 2 occasions in Omagh, not 20 yards from me. No action and no trial by media.

Ahh get away with that there would ye.

It was literally directly in front of me - forker instigated the whole thing - because Armagh were well beat at that stage and were never going to come back, and he wanted to start and stir up stuff.
The two of them had hands on each other. Matty Donnelly is as honest a player you'll get and would not provoke unless provoked.
Forker is what he is - hard enough reliable defender but will never go down as a great in ulster let alone AI history. Has had many a roasting and limitations exposed.

Nonsense.  What did Forker do to instigate being choked... twice?  a bit of goading or slabbering?  Just take it for what it was.  The same way I can see what Forker did last week was wrong. Or Rian too.  Too many supporters put the blinkers on.

I didn't see Donnelly's hands on his throat but I did see Forker with his two arms wrapped round Mattie trying to stop him join a Tyrone attack.

[David McKeown]

To be fair David, it means you can't call out any action ever if you try and use that line of defence. It's a case of muddying the water enough to try and introduce an element of doubt. Every single nasty stroke ever, could use the same defence, no matter how obvious it might look. Sometimes a spade is a spade.

What line of defence? You've lost me a bit

[Solo_run]

Why are we not talking about the game rather than having countless posts where everyone knows Forker punched him twice and it was cowardly. It shouldn't have happened. Fellow Armagh fans have to call out this shit for what it is just accept it happened and move on. There is crap like this going on every game, doesn't matter if it is a punch to the face or a dig to the ribs, if you are intentionally punching someone and get punished then touch sh*t.

Can we go back to analysing some of the games.

[trueblue1234]

To be fair David, it means you can't call out any action ever if you try and use that line of defence. It's a case of muddying the water enough to try and introduce an element of doubt. Every single nasty stroke ever, could use the same defence, no matter how obvious it might look. Sometimes a spade is a spade.

What line of defence? You've lost me a bit

Mainly this

^{I honestly don't accept that. To use the two most recent examples. I fully accept that my position is that Forker deliberately punches and then attempts to punch Kelly in the head. But I also accept that I can't be 100% certain of both of those things. The first video when slowed down seems to show a deliberate punch initially. However when at normal speed I can't be certain that Forker isn't making some kind of bad attempt on the ball. There's also sudden head movement which I would have expected. So there clearly is credible evidence for an alternative point of view.}
You could argue that against 100% of actions no matter how clear.

[David McKeown]

To be fair David, it means you can't call out any action ever if you try and use that line of defence. It's a case of muddying the water enough to try and introduce an element of doubt. Every single nasty stroke ever, could use the same defence, no matter how obvious it might look. Sometimes a spade is a spade.

What line of defence? You've lost me a bit

Mainly this

^{I honestly don't accept that. To use the two most recent examples. I fully accept that my position is that Forker deliberately punches and then attempts to punch Kelly in the head. But I also accept that I can't be 100% certain of both of those things. The first video when slowed down seems to show a deliberate punch initially. However when at normal speed I can't be certain that Forker isn't making some kind of bad attempt on the ball. There's also sudden head movement which I would have expected. So there clearly is credible evidence for an alternative point of view.}
You could argue that against 100% of actions no matter how clear.

Fair enough. Maybe I didn't explain myself well enough. I'm not defending Forker I think when considered in the round he punched twice. I think he should be punished for it and it was stupid. I don't expect he will be punished and excuses such as quality of the footage and other incidents going unpunished will be made.

That said I do accept that others may have a different point of view and I do accept there are arguably things that ought to be explained/aren't clear in the footage but I'd happily debate those points with any poster whose opinion on whether or not he struck was different to mine.

All that said I have an issue with posters who stifle the debate on that and resort to personal attacks for whatever reason. Clearly I'm in the minority in believing this was a discussion board. I'll leave it to those who wish to banter over attendances figures and the like.

I'll say no more.

[naka]

Do Galway have anyone who would be considered a dirty player? They are developing a wee bit more cynicism but no one stands out.

There's no Galway or Kerry players who I would consider a dirty player.

You don't watch Kerry that much then
They are extremely cynical and have always been
But given they aren't northern it's not flagged up.

[blanketattack]

Do Galway have anyone who would be considered a dirty player? They are developing a wee bit more cynicism but no one stands out.

There's no Galway or Kerry players who I would consider a dirty player.

You don't watch Kerry that much then
They are extremely cynical and have always been
But given they aren't northern it's not flagged up.

Cynical fouling to prevent a quick attack, yes, but by dirty I presume he means sly punches to the head, eye-gouging, dropping a knee onto someone  on the ground's head, ....

[seafoid]

To be fair David, it means you can't call out any action ever if you try and use that line of defence. It's a case of muddying the water enough to try and introduce an element of doubt. Every single nasty stroke ever, could use the same defence, no matter how obvious it might look. Sometimes a spade is a spade.

What line of defence? You've lost me a bit

Mainly this

^{I honestly don't accept that. To use the two most recent examples. I fully accept that my position is that Forker deliberately punches and then attempts to punch Kelly in the head. But I also accept that I can't be 100% certain of both of those things. The first video when slowed down seems to show a deliberate punch initially. However when at normal speed I can't be certain that Forker isn't making some kind of bad attempt on the ball. There's also sudden head movement which I would have expected. So there clearly is credible evidence for an alternative point of view.}
You could argue that against 100% of actions no matter how clear.

Fair enough. Maybe I didn't explain myself well enough. I'm not defending Forker I think when considered in the round he punched twice. I think he should be punished for it and it was stupid. I don't expect he will be punished and excuses such as quality of the footage and other incidents going unpunished will be made.

That said I do accept that others may have a different point of view and I do accept there are arguably things that ought to be explained/aren't clear in the footage but I'd happily debate those points with any poster whose opinion on whether or not he struck was different to mine.

All that said I have an issue with posters who stifle the debate on that and resort to personal attacks for whatever reason. Clearly I'm in the minority in believing this was a discussion board. I'll leave it to those who wish to banter over attendances figures and the like.

I'll say no more.

You are so interesting between the law and Armagh. The law has precedent and is clear . The GAA doesn't always and is not. You can't make up the law but you can handcraft GAA rules.
The law cannot be discussed but  GAA punches can.

[naka]

As I said Kerry are as apt to drop knees, nip ,etc and have always been for as long as I remember
Cathal o Rourke being taken out in 2000
Kennelly in the all Ireland final throw in against cork to name two that aren't even recent
Undoubtedly as cynical as anyone and  fair play they know how to
Win

[yellowcard]

As gaelic football has become a much less physical sport with players told to avoid taking the ball into contact, there is less room for those types of players. Most inter county players now are lean, athletic and are comfortable playing anywhere on the pitch. There is much less room for the enforcers of the past whose sole job was to stop the opponent. There are a lot of defenders from 10-20 years ago who would be out of place if asked to play the modern game as a result of this. I can't think of very many genuine hard men (dirty players) left playing the game at the top level. 

[Milltown Row2]

Its the niggly arsehole defenders who don't even look at the ball or play with their heads up that get me, nipping , pulling and dragging players, slabbering and so on. I generally warn them to be not at it and remember one getting a belt in the mouth and had the cheek to come to me complaining.

He was told very quickly that he had it coming

[Orior]

Its the niggly arsehole defenders who don't even look at the ball or play with their heads up that get me, nipping , pulling and dragging players, slabbering and so on. I generally warn them to be not at it and remember one getting a belt in the mouth and had the cheek to come to me complaining.

He was told very quickly that he had it coming

Whoa, hang on, hold the boat, the poor defender was only saying "Elephant juice" to the forward, lol.

[Solo_run]

As gaelic football has become a much less physical sport with players told to avoid taking the ball into contact, there is less room for those types of players. Most inter county players now are lean, athletic and are comfortable playing anywhere on the pitch. There is much less room for the enforcers of the past whose sole job was to stop the opponent. There are a lot of defenders from 10-20 years ago who would be out of place if asked to play the modern game as a result of this. I can't think of very many genuine hard men (dirty players) left playing the game at the top level.

Can barely get away with a good clean shoulder hit these days.