Armagh v Derry Official Thread

[Uladh]

What do you want me to say exile?  Cry that Joe's leaving?  You must be joking, I can't wait to see the back of him and I think you'll find I'm not on my own! 

Joe's not leaving.

Pints,
Joe Kernan has won 1 All-Ireland, 1 National League & 5 Ulster titles for Armagh.
What have you done for Armagh?

4 ulster titles....

and he helped win them

[orangeman]

It's the end of a truly remarkable and sensational Armagh era - Joe should be congratulated - not pilloried !

[corn02]

I would thank the players.

[Armagh Exile]

It's the end of a truly remarkable and sensational Armagh era - Joe should be congratulated - not pilloried !

Well spoken, Orangeman, agree with your sentiments entirely.

[pintsofguinness]

I would thank the players.

Agreed

Joe's not leaving.

Dont say that uladh!

[Armamike]

Poor display again by Armagh going forward. But not really all that surprising in light of the league performances and the absence of Clarke etc. Always disappointing to lose in injury time,  but Armagh just weren't good enough to pull away in the last 15 mins. That's 2 games, 2 defeats - not good reading. The really disappointing thing for me was that the lack of switches and subs used again. Dyas only got a run out due to McKeever's injury. He did really well.  The only other sub was Lavery for Toner, who got hauled off after a misplaced pass. Seemed a bit harsh.  The half forward line YET AGAIN was crying out for a change - McKeever and S Kernan were poor again. But Joe stood and did nothing until 10 mins from the end with Keenan coming on for McKeever. Too little, too late.  From the first minute of the game the Derry half back line were attacking at will.  Charlie Vernon must be wondering what he has to do to get 5 mins championship football under Joe Kernan. Maybe a new management set up would give him his chance.

It's time to look to the future and give more of the younger lads a go.  Any of the new faces that have been tried have done well - pity Kernan didn't put his faith in another one or two of them, who will now have to wait until next year to taste championship action (Vernon, Toal, Forker, O'Rourke etc).  This will probably be the end of the road for 4-5 household names - players who've given unbelievable service to the county over many years.  It's not a nice way to end a county career, but a football career is like politics, usually ends in failure!

[corn02]

We have been to Croker in the championship every year since 1999. A thank you to the players and ALL the managers involved over this period.

Believe me lads, Armagh football will be back as strong next year.

[02]

Believe me lads, Armagh football will be back as strong next year.

Hope not 2 losses is 2 games isn't exactly strong!  I think you guys are being ultra optimistic about the Armagh Senior team, even with good players and decent management it will take 2-3 years for the players to gel together and get the necessary inter-county experience. 

On a more positive note, hopefully club football in Armagh will improve with having county men available again (another issue with JKs management).

[corn02]

02 look at the two losses, we outplayed Donegal and should of taken Derry but did not score for the last twenty minutes. If we had of came through either one of these one point defeats would people still be talking of the death of Armagh football?

[02]

I agree with you corn02 these were very small margins, and a lot of Armaghs' success came on the back of small margins but we were consistently on the right side of them.  But if we are looking at rebuilding, realistically it will take a few years to get up to where we have been. 

The only people talking about Armagh football being dead are the Down supporters and I guess it's a welcome change after 12 years of mourning their own countys' demise.

[Bensars]

if you regard success as ulster titles then fair enough. They no longer hold the same reverence as they used to.

To present aramagh have failed to fill their own ambition, players and management would confess to rhis. The fact of not winning a second all ireland will forever haunt this group of players and management.

What did joe say about the difference in good teams and great teams?

[cavanmaniac]

I was at both Armagh's games this year and each was almost a carbon copy of the other.

The big push in both games, the old 'turning of the screw' phase we've come to expect from Armagh, simply didn't yield enough scores to secure the game in either Ballybofey or Clones today. A two point lead was a poor reflection on the degree to which Derry were suffocated out of the game and on the ropes in the third quarter.

Once the lead was secured, Armagh appeared to sit back and allowed a spirited but still extremely limited Derry side to keep in touch with frees, some of them very soft - Aaron Kernan's free to the wee red haired lad, and the one Fergal Doherty absolutely bought prior to that were as cheap a pair of frees as you'll see. Armagh won a few handy ones too but none of them coughed up easy scores like these frees that were instrumental in keeping a pulse in a Derry team that barely got out of their half at times in second half.

Armagh only woke up in the last minutes when they generally have a divine right to win games but panicky option-taking, poor execution and admittedly fantastic defending from Derry (as it had been all day) kept them at bay. The sucker punch duly arrived when Derry won the game with the first score from play in the second half, deep in injury time on the counter attack - with Geezer notably on his knees without the puff to get up and chase back. I struggle to even recall other Derry attempts on goal from play in the second half save for the punched effort that went wide shortly after the break.

Still, it's up to Armagh as a genuine Sam Maguire contender to punish these shortcomings in their opponents and they failed to do so either against Donegal or now Derry, so tough shit I suppose.

Finally, could some people cutting up big Joe wind their necks in. Talk about an ungrateful shower. Fine, maybe it's time for him to move on but not with rancour ringing in his ears.

[Rufus T Firefly]

That was as poor a Derry team as I have seen in years, and they beat Armagh - enough said! When we look back on the two matches this year, the one thing that will stand out will be the lack of a scoring threat. In this regard, the loss of Clarke and Mallon were catastrophic. Essentially we were reduced to Stevie as the one forward with a real cutting edge. The pressure then begins to tell. There is also a general lack of incision throughout our forwards. What one of our attackers can beat a man for speed and take a point? With Clarke in there, the high ball would have worked as before - but Stevie and Oisin are not going to benefit from that against that Derry defence.

Good luck to Derry, and to their supporters who bothered to turn up today - hope they go well.

For Armagh, the inquests will obviously begin - it is clear though that something needs to change to freshen things up, e.g. some combination of management, personnel, tactics.

A depressing day, although one that has been on the cards for a long time now. There will be interesting days ahead!

[bigpaul]

A very fine summation Cavanmaniac! I thought the referee suited Armagh in the first half but really helped Derry across the line in the last quarter. To have to read criticism of the legend that is Joe Kernan from somebody who obviously spent the match reading updates from a Donegal man who was listening to Highland Radio is just plain ridiculous!!!!!!!!

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

To present aramagh have failed to fill their own ambition, players and management would confess to rhis. The fact of not winning a second all ireland will forever haunt this group of players and management.

I very much doubt that the Armagh lads who retire now will spend the rest of their days being "haunted" by not winning a second All-Ireland. They made history by taking Sam to their county for the first time, thats what these boys will rightly dwell on in the future. I also find some of the stick that Joe Kernan is getting on here to be well out of order, he did a superb job to keep Armagh at the top end of the game over several years and brought great success. My own personal opinion, and Ive no doubt most of the Armagh folk will disagree, was that he got more out of that group of players than perhaps he had a right to. His only real mistake, and that of a few of his stalwarts, was maybe staying on a year too long.
I can see Armagh taking a bit of time to regroup now but writing them off would be crazy, still plenty of class in there.