Ulster Senior Football Final, Donegal v Down 22nd July .

[cadence]

Maybe go with a new approach. You are not going to run through Donegal. Maybe play a 3 man full forward line of Coulter,Gordon and Poland with half forwards of Carr,Laverty and Hughes as a screen in front of midfield to stop Donegal runners.

I don't think there's much point playing a full forward line against Donegal. Mulligan and O'Neill were worthless for the entire game on Saturday. Drag three men back, play a 3-4-4-3 formation, control the middle or maybe draw them out a bit, make it way harder for them to break at pace and make it easier for your own players to make runs from deep and find some space.

Donegal just love it when teams throw players forward. It's their trap. The way they break at speed is reminiscent of Real Madrid and I'd bet anything McGuinness has showed his players videos of them.

Sooner or later some team is going to work put how to deal with Donegal's players sweeping forward. They've have clearly developed a devastatingly effective system but the difference between them and Tyrone at their best is that they have almost totally sacrificed individual flair and creativity and an ability to think individually in favour of a relentless adherence to the system. Tyrone enabled individual flair and creativity to flourish within a system. Time and again Tyrone over the last decade Tyrone have, through football intelligence, turned games that were going against them completely in their favour. Donegal have yet to do that. There is no Plan B and when faced with a situation where they needed a goal against Dublin last year, no imagination or intelligent thinking. There is only one-track thinking, a relentless adherence the system they have.

sure mcfadden had a good opportunity to score a goal against dublin.

+ how do you play a game and score points without any imagination or intelligent thinking. i'm intrigued. how exactly does this phenomena happen?

[J70]

And I must have imagined us digging ourselves out of holes against Tyrone and kildare last year.

[cadence]

aw now... a great piece of imaginative irish fiction. but we shouldn't be discouraging raw talent if we're to continue punching above our weight at the aul' writing.

[Sidney]

And I must have imagined us digging ourselves out of holes against Tyrone and kildare last year.

Tyrone had got to grips with Donegal last year and a disastrous defensive error handed them the match on a plate. Kildare couldn't deal with Donegal's system but even still were also denied a perfectly good goal which would have killed off Donegal's challenge. On neither occasion did Donegal vary their tactics. When faced with a situation against 14 man Dublin where they needed to score and needed to show a bit of intelligence in varying their tactics they were couldn't and were easily dealt with for the last ten minutes plus injury time.

[Sidney]

+ how do you play a game and score points without any imagination or intelligent thinking. i'm intrigued. how exactly does this phenomena happen?

I specifically mentioned the last ten minutes against Dublin. Perhaps you can point out the imagination or intelligent thinking Donegal displayed there?

[cadence]

+ how do you play a game and score points without any imagination or intelligent thinking. i'm intrigued. how exactly does this phenomena happen?

I specifically mentioned the last ten minutes against Dublin. Perhaps you can point out the imagination or intelligent thinking Donegal displayed there?

imagination and intelligence does not revitalise your physical energy stores. donegal were a shot force in the last ten minutes. kept going, but no pep left, the legs were gone. but please, carry on, by all means.

[moysider]

+ how do you play a game and score points without any imagination or intelligent thinking. i'm intrigued. how exactly does this phenomena happen?

I specifically mentioned the last ten minutes against Dublin. Perhaps you can point out the imagination or intelligent thinking Donegal displayed there?

imagination and intelligence does not revitalise your physical energy stores. donegal were a shot force in the last ten minutes. kept going, but no pep left, the legs were gone. but please, carry on, by all means.

Correct. Only a couple of scores in it. Worst thing a team can do is change their strategy and lose shape in last few minutes - and they were struggling for air, and Karl Lacey was gone too? That s just desperation and asking to get killed. Donegals best chance of a result was doing what they did. As somebody already pointed out McFadden missed a great goal chance late on.

Whatever about plan B, most teams can t get a good A game together. If people are critical of Donegals lack of flexibility what does that say about likes of Kildare - who don t even have a good A game. Dublin had little enough imagination last year (and the last day too), while Cork have become competitive by abandoning their tradition and bullying and snarling their way to success.

Whoever manages to beat Donegal I expect to win AI but I m not sure they will be beaten. They are not a team that will be bullied by Cork either because physically they are as big and their discipline is way better. That s a clash I hope happens and I would expect Donegal to prevail.

I ve seen them twice live this year and it is impossible not to be impressed. There is no other team close to them as regards keeping the ball under pressure, and the way the game is developing that is going to be a massive plus. Not many teams would take as strategic an approach as Tyrone did the last day and I expect them to punish severly any team that tries to play anything except a very defensive game against them.

[JHume]

You might get your wish in the All-Ireland semi final, moysider, as the Ulster and Munster champions are scheduled to meet at that stage.

Although Down might have something to say about that.

Cork will beat Clare in Munster and Donegal should beat Down. But if there's one team I worry about playing in championship its Down, especially in finals. They gave us an awful tanking in the 1991 Ulster final, and the history books say they beat Donegal in several deciders in the 1960s. We have huge respect for Down's championship tradition and pedigree.

But, Down have blown very hot and cold for the past 2 years, exemplified by their performance against Monaghan last time out.

Donegal's physical condition is much commented upon, but their mental strength less so. This Donegal team doesn't do hot and cold. They might well lose, but, under McGuinness' tutelage they will not flop.

They will be confident of beating Down and, all things being equal, they will do so. And if they fail, Down will have had to put in a performance for the ages and Donegal will have died with their boots on.

It's going to be fascinating.

[Aristo 60]

Down played Antrim tonight in Carryduff. Believe it was 2-14 to 1-7 but little can be read into the scoreline as many of the likely starting 15 watched from the sidelines and trained on the banks. Down actually played with 14 men for the final 10 minutes as Timmy Hanna came off with a niggle and wasn't replaced.

Wet conditions, slippy ball.

Benny, Dan Gordon & Doyle all played. Maginn, Aidan Brannigan and Arthur McConville also involved. Eoin McCartan replaced Benny for last 5/10mins.

Down's 2 goals were from Benny in first half and McConville in second half.

Didn't see Garvey, King or O'Hagan but I could just have missed them.

Team's and management's spirits seemed up.

Fair play to Carryduff for accommodating the lads on short notice.

Any Down fans who want some more specific insight on individual performances or points of note by all means PM me.   

[Orangemac]

While it would make you yearn for the free flowing puke football of 2003 it is hard to see many teams coping with Donegal this year.

Dublin at their best,Kerry if they can regain their hunger. I think Donegal would beat Cork handily, player for player you would put them ahead of Donegal but hey always seem to lack a sense of purpose, lateral passing without any particular game plan.

Michael Murphy did not look fit aginst Tyrone, if he doesn't hit top form and or McFadden got injured it would be difficult to see Donegal getting further than last year.

[moysider]

While it would make you yearn for the free flowing puke football of 2003 it is hard to see many teams coping with Donegal this year.

Dublin at their best,Kerry if they can regain their hunger. I think Donegal would beat Cork handily, player for player you would put them ahead of Donegal but hey always seem to lack a sense of purpose, lateral passing without any particular game plan.

Michael Murphy did not look fit aginst Tyrone, if he doesn't hit top form and or McFadden got injured it would be difficult to see Donegal getting further than last year.

So who s going to beat them Orangemac?

[moysider]

You might get your wish in the All-Ireland semi final, moysider, as the Ulster and Munster champions are scheduled to meet at that stage.

Although Down might have something to say about that.Cork will beat Clare in Munster and Donegal should beat Down. But if there's one team I worry about playing in championship its Down, especially in finals. They gave us an awful tanking in the 1991 Ulster final, and the history books say they beat Donegal in several deciders in the 1960s. We have huge respect for Down's championship tradition and pedigree.

But, Down have blown very hot and cold for the past 2 years, exemplified by their performance against Monaghan last time out.

Donegal's physical condition is much commented upon, but their mental strength less so. This Donegal team doesn't do hot and cold. They might well lose, but, under McGuinness' tutelage they will not flop.

They will be confident of beating Down and, all things being equal, they will do so. And if they fail, Down will have had to put in a performance for the ages and Donegal will have died with their boots on.

It's going to be fascinating.

Not really my wish or anything but it is one challenge I d like to see Cork deal with.

Last August Mayo beat Cork playing a bit of football. Most people stupidly put it down to Cork losing concentration - you usually get that explanation when a team loses to Mayo . Cork s reaction was rabid - in the league and league final. IMO they possibly have already bought the farm.

They took losing that qf so seriously that you would swear they were listening to the media than looking at themselves. Imo they looked to rehabilitate themselves by looking for Mayo. When I doubt Mayo were really too bothered. Counihan and a lot of his players have been around a long time and there appears to be a lot of pressure there. I suspect they picked the wrong opposition to up the ante and show their hand so early.
Cork s discipline is poor and it is unlikely that any ref will allowed himself to be bullied in this champ. like Deegan was in League Final. I m sure it has been pointed out to him that he missed big cards on Cork in that match. I ve no doubt that a marker has been put down as a result of this. In fairness to Mayo tongues were bitten and pricks in the media set the usual agenda but refereering was mangled that day and they wont be listening to Brolly and Eugene McGee.

And before anybody poopoos this - anybody see a sending off of a Louth player for trying to lift a Westmeath player off the ground? What he did was harmless compared to what Noel O Leary did  in league so I suspect that a bit of a 'circular' has gone out to refs. I also suspect that the 'throating' of a player - well demonstrated by Shields, Cadogan and Goulding- will also be treated as a striking offence. And rightly so as anybody with a smashed larynx will tell you    Maybe, after all, the powers that be, are serving us better than likes of Brolly and Spillane who focused on a player diving - even though he took argueably 5 yellow/red card tackles.

[cadence]

While it would make you yearn for the free flowing puke football of 2003 it is hard to see many teams coping with Donegal this year.

Dublin at their best,Kerry if they can regain their hunger. I think Donegal would beat Cork handily, player for player you would put them ahead of Donegal but hey always seem to lack a sense of purpose, lateral passing without any particular game plan.

Michael Murphy did not look fit aginst Tyrone, if he doesn't hit top form and or McFadden got injured it would be difficult to see Donegal getting further than last year.

thought murphy was off the pace as well. a month's worth of good mixed training, nice and steady, he'll be hard to stop again. i'd be happy if we got to another semi-final. what the players need is a nice long run, competing with the big boys, giving them a game. good to get a sense of progress, that things are still going forward. we could get a crap draw and not get as far as last year. even if they don't get as far as last year, it's that feeling of improving that's important. rome wasn't built in a day and all that.   

[viva the mccooey]

Donegal will destroy Down. That is the worst Down team i have seen, oh let me see, ....since last year!!

[Aristo 60]

Viva, Maybe the real strenght is in Down's sub bench? They dispatched Antrim handy enough last night.