Ulster IFC
5/11/23 - Preliminary Round
Teemore, Maguiresbridge, Derrylin, Donagh, Newtownbutler, Tempo, Irvinestown, Belcoo (Fermanagh) v Annaclone, St John's, Rostrevor, Liatroim (Down)
12/11/23 - Quarter Finals
(Derry) v Sarsfields, Glenravel, All Saints, St Teresa's(Antrim)
Ballyhaise, Shercock, Killinkere, Denn (Cavan) v (Donegal)
(Tyrone) v Cullyhanna, Belleeks, Tir ná nÓg, Pearse Og, Wolfe Tones, Keady, St Paul's, Derrynoose (Armagh)
Cremartin, Emyvale, Killaney, Castleblayney, Monaghan Harps, Carrickmacross (Monaghan) v (Fermanagh/Down)
Ulster JFC
29/10/23 - Preliminary Round
Ballyhegan, Clonmore, Corrinshego (Armagh) v Fintona, Drumragh, Cookstown, Aghaloo (Tyrone)
5/11/23 - Quarter Finals
(Derry) v Shannon Gaels, Knockbride, Drumalee, Arva (Cavan)
(Donegal) v (Fermanagh)
Drumhowan, Oram, Eire Og, Killeevan, Blackhill, Tyholland, Currin (Monaghan) v O'Donnell's. Eire Og, Rasharkin, St Malachy's (Antim)
(Armagh/Tyrone) v East Belfast, Kilclief, Drumaness, Dromara, Ardglass (Down)
Armagh IFC semi-finals
Pearse Óg v Cullyhanna
Keady v St Paul's
See Lisnaskea are in Fermanagh Junior Final. They'd be decent if they make it into Ulster?
Ardglass v Drumaness in jfc final.
Quote from: clarshack on September 30, 2023, 08:08:35 PMSee Lisnaskea are in Fermanagh Junior Final. They'd be decent if they make it into Ulster?
Not the team they were back in the day, a lot of young players in the team and haven't had a great league. Be between Derry/Tyrone for Ulster in Junior level
Armagh JFC final
Ballyhegan v Clann Éireann II
Arva versus Knockbride in Cavan junior final. Whoever wins should be a strong contender in Ulster but presume Arva will win as stayed up in division 1 and have three Cavan Seniors.
Intermediate Ballyhaise versus Denn. Ballyhaise be favourites as they've been in quite a few recent finals.
Quote from: general_lee on October 03, 2023, 08:57:01 AMArmagh JFC final
Ballyhegan v Clann Éireann II
Ballyhegan to represent Armagh in Ulster then. Some going by CE seconds to make a final in their first year.
Ardglass v Drumaness in the Down JFC final. Drumaness would have been pre-competition favourites as they played their league football in Division 3 this year, albeit they got relegated. Ardglass have done extremely well to get to the final and will surely give it their all.
Liatroim and Rostrevor are into the Down IFC final. Rostrevor lost to Saval in the final last year so they will be looking to go one better this year. Liatroim have a serious amount of talent and a close final is in prospect.
Down's JFC reps for Ulster won't be anywhere near the same level as the usual suspects, Cavan, Monaghan and Tyrone. Our IFC reps should be competitive.
Quote from: mrdeeds on October 03, 2023, 09:16:12 AMArva versus Knockbride in Cavan junior final. Whoever wins should be a strong contender in Ulster but presume Arva will win as stayed up in division 1 and have three Cavan Seniors.
Intermediate Ballyhaise versus Denn. Ballyhaise be favourites as they've been in quite a few recent finals.
You'd like to think a Division 1 club would be strong contenders for an Ulster Junior. Jesus Christ have yous no shame, as bad as them Kerry ones.
Quote from: general_lee on October 03, 2023, 11:34:17 AMQuote from: mrdeeds on October 03, 2023, 09:16:12 AMArva versus Knockbride in Cavan junior final. Whoever wins should be a strong contender in Ulster but presume Arva will win as stayed up in division 1 and have three Cavan Seniors.
Intermediate Ballyhaise versus Denn. Ballyhaise be favourites as they've been in quite a few recent finals.
You'd like to think a Division 1 club would be strong contenders for an Ulster Junior. Jesus Christ have yous no shame, as bad as them Kerry ones.
They were bet in junior final last year so what can you do? League and championship seperate in Cavan. Knockbride actually will be a division 1 team next year too. Denn in intermediate final were division 3 and Ballyhaise are division 1.
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 03, 2023, 09:33:19 AMQuote from: general_lee on October 03, 2023, 08:57:01 AMArmagh JFC final
Ballyhegan v Clann Éireann II
Ballyhegan to represent Armagh in Ulster then. Some going by CE seconds to make a final in their first year.
Not their first year. They fielded a IIs team about 8 years ago but only lasted a season or two. This year they've a few senior championship medalists in their ranks and got promotion from 3B so they've had a good return to Junior football. With the numbers they have they should really push on at this level.
Quote from: mrdeeds on October 03, 2023, 11:38:39 AMQuote from: general_lee on October 03, 2023, 11:34:17 AMQuote from: mrdeeds on October 03, 2023, 09:16:12 AMArva versus Knockbride in Cavan junior final. Whoever wins should be a strong contender in Ulster but presume Arva will win as stayed up in division 1 and have three Cavan Seniors.
Intermediate Ballyhaise versus Denn. Ballyhaise be favourites as they've been in quite a few recent finals.
You'd like to think a Division 1 club would be strong contenders for an Ulster Junior. Jesus Christ have yous no shame, as bad as them Kerry ones.
They were bet in junior final last year so what can you do? League and championship seperate in Cavan. Knockbride actually will be a division 1 team next year too. Denn in intermediate final were division 3 and Ballyhaise are division 1.
Oh I understand, used to be the same in Armagh. Does it not seem a bit ridiculous though, Division 1 clubs competing in 2nd and 3rd tier championships?
The way some counties run their league and championships is plain weird.
Arva were only beaten by a point by Drumlane in last year's Cavan Junior Final and Drumlane were a damn good side in Ulster only losing the Final on pens. I don't think this season's Tyrone Junior champions would just be at that level yet but I don't think they would meet until the final anyway. Drumragh or Fintona should beat the Armagh and Down champions handy enough first but then it will get much tougher with the Monaghan champions likely in the semi-final.
Quote from: general_lee on October 03, 2023, 11:51:28 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 03, 2023, 09:33:19 AMQuote from: general_lee on October 03, 2023, 08:57:01 AMArmagh JFC final
Ballyhegan v Clann Éireann II
Ballyhegan to represent Armagh in Ulster then. Some going by CE seconds to make a final in their first year.
Not their first year. They fielded a IIs team about 8 years ago but only lasted a season or two. This year they've a few senior championship medalists in their ranks and got promotion from 3B so they've had a good return to Junior football. With the numbers they have they should really push on at this level.
Yes an in addition to that would have a few ex county minors to supplement that.
Is that a 2nd or 3rds teams, Does Armagh not have a reserve league for 2nd teams?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 03, 2023, 09:05:40 PMIs that a 2nd or 3rds teams, Does Armagh not have a reserve league for 2nd teams?
they do. But if you've the numbers makes more sense to field a stand alone seconds team to play in the junior league. Better standard
G, a reserve team in Derry couldn't play in a Junior league, it have to be a thirds team and called such.
Ulster IFC
5/11/23 - Preliminary Round
Teemore, Irvinestown, Derrylin, Tempo (Fermanagh) v Rostrevor, Liatroim (Down)
12/11/23 - Quarter Finals
(Derry) v Glenravel, All Saints (Antrim)
Ballyhaise, Denn (Cavan) v Termon, Downings, Malin, Fanad Gaels (Donegal)
(Tyrone) v Cullyhanna, Belleeks, Tir ná nÓg, Pearse Og, Wolfe Tones, Keady, St Paul's, Derrynoose (Armagh)
Cremartin, Killaney, Monaghan Harps, Carrickmacross (Monaghan) v (Fermanagh/Down)
Ulster JFC
29/10/23 - Preliminary Round
Ballyhegan (Armagh) v Fintona, Drumragh (Tyrone)
5/11/23 - Quarter Finals
(Derry) v Knockbride, Arva (Cavan)
Na Rossa, Moville, Lifford (Donegal) v Aughnadrumsee, Lisnaskea (Fermanagh)
Drumhowan, Eire Og, Blackhill, Tyholland (Monaghan) v O'Donnell's, Rasharkin (Antim)
(Armagh/Tyrone) v Drumaness, Ardglass (Down)
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 03, 2023, 10:32:48 PMG, a reserve team in Derry couldn't play in a Junior league, it have to be a thirds team and called such.
Reserve leagues in Armagh aren't graded and are a complete mismatch: they're based geographically, senior clubs can play against intermediate & junior clubs and half them barely field.
If you've 40+ lads coming to training every night, entering a second panel into the league system is a much better way of guaranteeing meaningful football. If your club have an extra 20 lads who are capable of fielding an intermediate standard side (like Crossmaglen) what benefit is it for them to play reserves?
Quote from: DownFanatic on October 04, 2023, 09:05:27 AMUlster IFC
5/11/23 - Preliminary Round
Teemore, Irvinestown, Derrylin, Tempo (Fermanagh) v Rostrevor, Liatroim (Down)
12/11/23 - Quarter Finals
(Derry) v Glenravel, All Saints (Antrim)
Ballyhaise, Denn (Cavan) v Termon, Downings, Malin, Fanad Gaels (Donegal)
(Tyrone) v Cullyhanna, Belleeks, Tir ná nÓg, Pearse Og, Wolfe Tones, Keady, St Paul's, Derrynoose (Armagh)
Cremartin, Killaney, Monaghan Harps, Carrickmacross (Monaghan) v (Fermanagh/Down)
Ulster JFC
29/10/23 - Preliminary Round
Ballyhegan (Armagh) v Fintona, Drumragh (Tyrone)
5/11/23 - Quarter Finals
(Derry) v Knockbride, Arva (Cavan)
Na Rossa, Moville, Lifford (Donegal) v Aughnadrumsee, Lisnaskea (Fermanagh)
Drumhowan, Eire Og, Blackhill, Tyholland (Monaghan) v O'Donnell's, Rasharkin (Antim)
(Armagh/Tyrone) v Drumaness, Ardglass (Down)
A few corrections. Donegal Intermediate is down to Malin v Downings.
Donegal Junior- Lifford are gone. It's the other Naomh Padraig from Muff in the semi final I believe.
Derry senior reserve football would be very strong with most teams if not all, stronger than Junior football,
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 04, 2023, 02:35:54 PMDerry senior reserve football would be very strong with most teams if not all stronger than Junior football,
then they be as well fielding proper seconds teams
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 04, 2023, 02:35:54 PMDerry senior reserve football would be very strong with most teams if not all, stronger than Junior football,
I take pride in the strength of our clubs but I'd disagree with this to be honest. Would be stronger than the weakest few teams in the county, but I don't think they'd have beat those Desertmartin or Craigbane teams that won the last few Junior championships.
Quote from: oakleaflad on October 05, 2023, 08:31:00 AMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on October 04, 2023, 02:35:54 PMDerry senior reserve football would be very strong with most teams if not all, stronger than Junior football,
I take pride in the strength of our clubs but I'd disagree with this to be honest. Would be stronger than the weakest few teams in the county, but I don't think they'd have beat those Desertmartin or Craigbane teams that won the last few Junior championships.
couple of reserve teams in Armagh wouldn't look out of place at intermediate level but maybe thats how poor the standard is. Cross enter their first team, seconds and a reserve side as well!
Ulster IFC
5/11/23 - Preliminary Round
Teemore, Derrylin (Fermanagh) v Rostrevor, Liatroim (Down)
12/11/23 - Quarter Finals
Glenullin, Drumsurn, Greenlough, Banagher (Derry) v Glenravel (Antrim)
Ballyhaise, Denn (Cavan) v Downings, Malin (Donegal)
Pomeroy, Derrylaughan, Moy, Clonoe (Tyrone) v Cullyhanna, St Paul's (Armagh)
Cremartin, Killaney, Monaghan Harps, Carrickmacross (Monaghan) v (Fermanagh/Down)
Ulster JFC
29/10/23 - Preliminary Round
Ballyhegan (Armagh) v Fintona, Drumragh (Tyrone)
5/11/23 - Quarter Finals
Moneymore, Glack, Ballymaguigan, Ballerin (Derry) v Knockbride, Arva (Cavan)
Na Rossa, Moville, Muff (Donegal) v Aughnadrumsee, Lisnaskea (Fermanagh)
Blackhill, Tyholland (Monaghan) v Rasharkin (Antim)
(Armagh/Tyrone) v Drumaness, Ardglass (Down)
How are Glenullin still Intermediate? Did they not win it last year or the year before?
Quote from: general_lee on October 09, 2023, 02:36:09 PMHow are Glenullin still Intermediate? Did they not win it last year or the year before?
They won it last year but Galbally beat them well in Ulster. If they win Derry again this year can they play in Ulster?
Quote from: clarshack on October 09, 2023, 02:37:34 PMQuote from: general_lee on October 09, 2023, 02:36:09 PMHow are Glenullin still Intermediate? Did they not win it last year or the year before?
They won it last year but Galbally beat them well in Ulster. If they win Derry again this year can they play in Ulster?
Surely they should play senior in Derry though?
Quote from: general_lee on October 09, 2023, 02:58:39 PMQuote from: clarshack on October 09, 2023, 02:37:34 PMQuote from: general_lee on October 09, 2023, 02:36:09 PMHow are Glenullin still Intermediate? Did they not win it last year or the year before?
They won it last year but Galbally beat them well in Ulster. If they win Derry again this year can they play in Ulster?
Surely they should play senior in Derry though?
Historically there has never been promotion through winning the junior or intermediate championship; promotion has always been based on league.
However, that is changing. This year there has been a "de-coupling" of the league and championship meaning, for example, next year Lavey will be playing Division 2 football but are still in the senior championship and 2 out of Swatragh, Coleraine, Loup and Ballinderry will still be playing Division 1 football but will be in the intermediate championship.
I still don't think there is any promotion for winning junior or intermediate championship this year (and possibly next year??) as the numbers in the senior championship are being reduced from 16 to 12.
Quote from: cornerback on October 09, 2023, 04:13:15 PMQuote from: general_lee on October 09, 2023, 02:58:39 PMQuote from: clarshack on October 09, 2023, 02:37:34 PMQuote from: general_lee on October 09, 2023, 02:36:09 PMHow are Glenullin still Intermediate? Did they not win it last year or the year before?
They won it last year but Galbally beat them well in Ulster. If they win Derry again this year can they play in Ulster?
Surely they should play senior in Derry though?
Historically there has never been promotion through winning the junior or intermediate championship; promotion has always been based on league.
However, that is changing. This year there has been a "de-coupling" of the league and championship meaning, for example, next year Lavey will be playing Division 2 football but are still in the senior championship and 2 out of Swatragh, Coleraine, Loup and Ballinderry will still be playing Division 1 football but will be in the intermediate championship.
I still don't think there is any promotion for winning junior or intermediate championship this year (and possibly next year??) as the numbers in the senior championship are being reduced from 16 to 12.
Why are they dropping senior down to 12? What's the rationale?
Making room for 4 regional teams??
Clann Éireann II 4-12
Ballyhegan 1-8
A really poor showing from Ballyhegan but they'll represent Armagh regardless.
Quote from: smort on October 13, 2023, 09:14:27 PMMaking room for 4 regional teams??
That would be great stuff.
The Townies - Derry city, limavady, and Coleraine (portstewart).
Mountain men - craigbane, Claudy, slaughtmanus, foreglen, Feeney, glack
The midcounty badlands - Ballerin, glenullin, drumsurn, drum, greenlough
South Derry blacksheep - ballinderry and the rest of the non top tier south Derry clubs not already mentioned!!
Ballinderry probably be the strongest team at that level since Glen dropped down 10yrs bck.
Lisnaskea running amock in the fermanagh junior final, 15 points up with 20 mins to go.
Seems to be a classic in the Derry championship. Just 1 score in the opening 20 minutes of Watty Grahams and slaughtneil.
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 15, 2023, 06:24:59 PMSeems to be a classic in the Derry championship. Just 1 score in the opening 20 minutes of Watty Grahams and slaughtneil.
Bit of scrapping providing the entertainment but
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 15, 2023, 01:18:55 AMBallinderry probably be the strongest team at that level since Glen dropped down 10yrs bck.
On what basis?
Poor outfit.
I'd say Ballinderry have a lot of players coming through.
Coleraine don't. Mc Goldericks and Holly etc. have been brilliant sevants to the GAA. But age catching up with them not and with little coming through, they could slip into junior over the next 5 or 6 years.
Ulster IFC
5/11/23 - Preliminary Round
Teemore, Derrylin (Fermanagh) v Liatroim (Down)
12/11/23 - Quarter Finals
Glenullin, Banagher (Derry) v Glenravel (Antrim)
Ballyhaise (Cavan) v Downings (Donegal)
Pomeroy, Moy (Tyrone) v Cullyhanna, St Paul's (Armagh)
Killanny, Carrickmacross (Monaghan) v (Fermanagh/Down)
Ulster JFC
29/10/23 - Preliminary Round
Ballyhegan (Armagh) v Fintona (Tyrone)
5/11/23 - Quarter Finals
Moneymore, Ballymaguigan (Derry) v Arva (Cavan)
Na Rossa (Donegal) v Lisnaskea (Fermanagh)
Blackhill, Tyholland (Monaghan) v Rasharkin (Antim)
Ballyhegan, Fintona (Armagh/Tyrone) v Drumaness (Down)
Arva with their experience of playing in Division 1 this year should be favourites for the Junior Championship.
If Blackhill win Monaghan they'd be favourites to reach the final In the other side of the draw. They won Ulster in 2019 and narrowly lost a final in 2016 to the Rock.
Some decent teams in the Ulster Junior Championship overall.
Two of Declan Bonner's sons were lining out for Na Rossa at the weekend, as was Adrian Sweeney, former county star, who transferred from Dungloe not too long ago. Another lad who was in the Donegal squad for a few years, Adrian Hanlon, also lined out.
Some comeback for Bonner and the rest of the club. They came near to folding in recent years.
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2023, 03:35:56 PMTwo of Declan Bonner's sons were lining out for Na Rossa at the weekend, as was Adrian Sweeney, former county star, who transferred from Dungloe not too long ago. Another lad who was in the Donegal squad for a few years, Adrian Hanlon, also lined out.
Some comeback for Bonner and the rest of the club. They came near to folding in recent years.
Adrian Sweeney must be near 50?
In Junior, Fintona will have far too much for Ballyhegan. Junior in Armagh isn't of a great standard and Ballyhegan were stuffed by a reserve team in the final.
St Paul's are in their second Intermediate final in a row and third final in four years. Despite beating Cullyhanna in the last league game of the season to deny them any chance of promotion, they'll be big underdogs. Cullyhanna have 3 intercounty players and have been shooting the lights out at this level. Expect them to make swift their return to senior football - it will be a humdinger with them v either Moy or Pomeroy.
Quote from: clarshack on October 16, 2023, 03:46:03 PMQuote from: J70 on October 16, 2023, 03:35:56 PMTwo of Declan Bonner's sons were lining out for Na Rossa at the weekend, as was Adrian Sweeney, former county star, who transferred from Dungloe not too long ago. Another lad who was in the Donegal squad for a few years, Adrian Hanlon, also lined out.
Some comeback for Bonner and the rest of the club. They came near to folding in recent years.
Adrian Sweeney must be near 50?
He's 47-48ish. Retired from intercounty in 2008.
Its only a few years since NaRossa were so short that Declan Bonner himself lined out in nets at the age of 54!
https://www.donegaldaily.com/2019/09/28/declan-bonner-to-the-fore-as-na-rossa-reach-junior-semi-finals/ (https://www.donegaldaily.com/2019/09/28/declan-bonner-to-the-fore-as-na-rossa-reach-junior-semi-finals/)
Quote from: general_lee on October 16, 2023, 04:26:50 PMIn Junior, Fintona will have far too much for Ballyhegan. Junior in Armagh isn't of a great standard and Ballyhegan were stuffed by a reserve team in the final.
St Paul's are in their second Intermediate final in a row and third final in four years. Despite beating Cullyhanna in the last league game of the season to deny them any chance of promotion, they'll be big underdogs. Cullyhanna have 3 intercounty players and have been shooting the lights out at this level. Expect them to make swift their return to senior football - it will be a humdinger with them v either Moy or Pomeroy.
Not really fair on Ballyhegan after getting a tanking asking them to play in Ulster. Hope they can pull together and put up a good performance. Cullyhanna on paper have far too much for St Paul's but Murnin is good enough to win games on his own at that level. Cullyhanna probably have had an Ulster run on their minds since they were relegated though.
IFC very lop sided draw for me. Would it be a bold shout to say Moy / Pomeroy, Cullyhanna and Carrickmacross might be the 3 strongest teams if they make it that far and only one can make the Ulster final
Quote from: ClubScene13 on October 17, 2023, 01:02:51 PMIFC very lop sided draw for me. Would it be a bold shout to say Moy / Pomeroy, Cullyhanna and Carrickmacross might be the 3 strongest teams if they make it that far and only one can make the Ulster final
Wouldn't be too quick to look past Banagher if they come out of Derry
Quote from: InnocentByStander on October 17, 2023, 01:13:01 PMQuote from: ClubScene13 on October 17, 2023, 01:02:51 PMIFC very lop sided draw for me. Would it be a bold shout to say Moy / Pomeroy, Cullyhanna and Carrickmacross might be the 3 strongest teams if they make it that far and only one can make the Ulster final
Wouldn't be too quick to look past Banagher if they come out of Derry
Entirely possible, the Ulster club at Intermediate and Junior can tend to be a bit of a lottery at times, didn't mention Derry just based on Glenullin's showing last year
Quote from: ClubScene13 on October 17, 2023, 01:25:56 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on October 17, 2023, 01:13:01 PMQuote from: ClubScene13 on October 17, 2023, 01:02:51 PMIFC very lop sided draw for me. Would it be a bold shout to say Moy / Pomeroy, Cullyhanna and Carrickmacross might be the 3 strongest teams if they make it that far and only one can make the Ulster final
Wouldn't be too quick to look past Banagher if they come out of Derry
Entirely possible, the Ulster club at Intermediate and Junior can tend to be a bit of a lottery at times, didn't mention Derry just based on Glenullin's showing last year
Glenullin are a better team this year than last year too not as old and a few new fresh young faces. Banagher have usually been a senior side won IFC in 2018 and lost in the SF in free kicks. Derry's winners will be stronger this year
Quote from: InnocentByStander on October 17, 2023, 01:58:57 PMGlenullin are a better team this year than last year too not as old and a few new fresh young faces. Banagher have usually been a senior side won IFC in 2018 and lost in the SF in free kicks. Derry's winners will be stronger this year
Banagher are playing like a Senior team this year. They will be a handful.
You'd have to fancy the Derry, Cavan, Tyrone (although could be a toss of a coin if Cullyhanna win Armagh) & Monaghan winners to make the semis.
Glenullin and Banagher both have experience at this level as do The Moy and Pomeroy, the latter two having won the competition in recent years. Cullyhanna & St Paul's you need to go back near 10 years since either won Armagh.
The rest are unknowns afaik.
Quote from: general_lee on October 17, 2023, 06:36:58 PMYou'd have to fancy the Derry, Cavan, Tyrone (although could be a toss of a coin if Cullyhanna win Armagh) & Monaghan winners to make the semis.
Glenullin and Banagher both have experience at this level as do The Moy and Pomeroy, the latter two having won the competition in recent years. Cullyhanna & St Paul's you need to go back near 10 years since either won Armagh.
The rest are unknowns afaik.
St Paul's been falling just short for a good few years in Armagh now and I doubt they'd be looking any further but have plenty of talent and like I've said before Murnin is good enough to win games on his own at this level.
Cullyhanna are a decent senior level team but a pile of injuries/retirements/opt outs in the last few years plus being without 3 county men for league games has seen them slip to intermediate. They've got lads back now and seem to have got their ducks in a row. Couldn't imagine too many intermediate teams in Ulster would have the talent that they do.
Having said that though Armagh teams outside of Cross have barely won a game at any level ever in Ulster. Be hoping for that to change this year for sure
Antrims Glenravel aren't a bad side
Untried at this level and have a tough opener. Done the league and champ double this year and have a coach who knows derry intermediate football well so don't rule them out.
Quote from: ClubScene13 on October 17, 2023, 01:25:56 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on October 17, 2023, 01:13:01 PMQuote from: ClubScene13 on October 17, 2023, 01:02:51 PMIFC very lop sided draw for me. Would it be a bold shout to say Moy / Pomeroy, Cullyhanna and Carrickmacross might be the 3 strongest teams if they make it that far and only one can make the Ulster final
Wouldn't be too quick to look past Banagher if they come out of Derry
Entirely possible, the Ulster club at Intermediate and Junior can tend to be a bit of a lottery at times, didn't mention Derry just based on Glenullin's showing last year
The 2021 Derry champions, steelstown won the all Ireland in a canter, were barely tested outside of Derry (moortown apart). As you say, lottery.
It has the makings of a very strong Ulster IFC this year. Down's Liatroim have won their first IFC in 25 years and are stacked with a lot of talent including a couple of county players. Would imagine Arva would be big favourites for the JFC.
Quote from: onefineday on October 17, 2023, 11:46:09 PMQuote from: ClubScene13 on October 17, 2023, 01:25:56 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on October 17, 2023, 01:13:01 PMQuote from: ClubScene13 on October 17, 2023, 01:02:51 PMIFC very lop sided draw for me. Would it be a bold shout to say Moy / Pomeroy, Cullyhanna and Carrickmacross might be the 3 strongest teams if they make it that far and only one can make the Ulster final
Wouldn't be too quick to look past Banagher if they come out of Derry
Entirely possible, the Ulster club at Intermediate and Junior can tend to be a bit of a lottery at times, didn't mention Derry just based on Glenullin's showing last year
The 2021 Derry champions, steelstown won the all Ireland in a canter, were barely tested outside of Derry (moortown apart). As you say, lottery.
That's a great shout I had forgot about Steelstown. Ye never know who has dropped out of senior from 1 bad year that will be strong at this level. Will be interesting to see what comes this year
Quote from: DownFanatic on October 18, 2023, 08:56:40 AMIt has the makings of a very strong Ulster IFC this year. Down's Liatroim have won their first IFC in 25 years and are stacked with a lot of talent including a couple of county players. Would imagine Arva would be big favourites for the JFC.
And went on to win the first ever Ulster Intermediate Championship that year, that was the end of the road as there was no All Ireland series yet.
Who would be favourites in the Derry Junior final? Moneymore v Bsllymaguigan. Arva play the winners in Derry
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 19, 2023, 05:35:53 PMWho would be favourites in the Derry Junior final? Moneymore v Bsllymaguigan. Arva play the winners in Derry
Ballymaguigan would be strong favourites.
Lisnaskea have won the Junior championship in Fermanagh.
They won the All Ireland intermediate club title in 2011
Quote from: JoG2 on October 19, 2023, 06:56:50 PMQuote from: rodney trotter on October 19, 2023, 05:35:53 PMWho would be favourites in the Derry Junior final? Moneymore v Bsllymaguigan. Arva play the winners in Derry
Ballymaguigan would be strong favourites.
How would Ballymaguigan compare to last year's champions Craigbane?
Quote from: clarshack on October 19, 2023, 08:49:53 PMQuote from: JoG2 on October 19, 2023, 06:56:50 PMQuote from: rodney trotter on October 19, 2023, 05:35:53 PMWho would be favourites in the Derry Junior final? Moneymore v Bsllymaguigan. Arva play the winners in Derry
Ballymaguigan would be strong favourites.
How would Ballymaguigan compare to last year's champions Craigbane?
Wouldn't be a while pile between the 2 sides. If they were to play tomorrow, Craigbane would maybe shade it, but alot of their big hitters have alot of miles on the clock. Craigbane are back down to junior for next year along with 2 other intermediate teams in another restructure
Quote from: JoG2 on October 19, 2023, 10:21:26 PMQuote from: clarshack on October 19, 2023, 08:49:53 PMQuote from: JoG2 on October 19, 2023, 06:56:50 PMQuote from: rodney trotter on October 19, 2023, 05:35:53 PMWho would be favourites in the Derry Junior final? Moneymore v Bsllymaguigan. Arva play the winners in Derry
Ballymaguigan would be strong favourites.
How would Ballymaguigan compare to last year's champions Craigbane?
Wouldn't be a while pile between the 2 sides. If they were to play tomorrow, Craigbane would maybe shade it, but alot of their big hitters have alot of miles on the clock. Craigbane are back down to junior for next year along with 2 other intermediate teams in another restructure
Ballymaguigan v Arva would be a close enough game then. Craigbane were only beaten by a point by Drumlane in last year's championship and Drumlane had only beaten Arva by a point in the Cavan Junior Final. Arva will still be favourites having had Division 1 experience this season though.
Arva were favourites to beat Drumlane last year, but were very wasteful in the final. Drumlane just about got past Craigbane. Craigbane played most of the game with 14 men after a early sending off
Safe to say Cullyhanna will be representing Armagh in IFC, 3.14 to 5 up with 20 mins to go. Winning as 1/7 shots should but I expected more from St Paul's.
Now 4-20 to 0-8, 4-18 from play for Cullyhanna so far. Definitely not St Paul's day, everything that could go wrong for them went wrong.
How are the teams set for the Armagh IFC?
That score line would suggest Cullyhanna are in the wrong grade.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 22, 2023, 03:41:35 PMHow are the teams set for the Armagh IFC?
That score line would suggest Cullyhanna are in the wrong grade.
Cullyhanna played in 2 senior finals in the 10's in 2013 and 2016 getting beat by cross handsomely and maghery by a goal respectively
QuoteCullyhanna are a decent senior level team but a pile of injuries/retirements/opt outs in the last few years plus being without 3 county men for league games has seen them slip to intermediate. They've got lads back now and seem to have got their ducks in a row. Couldn't imagine too many intermediate teams in Ulster would have the talent that they do.
Cullyhanna's current situation best illustrated by Armagh18's post above.
Armagh has leagues set out as D1a & 1b - senior, 2a & 2b intermediate and 3a & 3b for Junior, determines your championship grade
Quote from: thewobbler on October 22, 2023, 03:41:35 PMHow are the teams set for the Armagh IFC?
That score line would suggest Cullyhanna are in the wrong grade.
Were relegated in the league last year. League and Championship linked. 3 County players make some difference and another couple of lads back as well
Cullyhanna v Moy or Pomeroy will be some game.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 22, 2023, 03:41:35 PMHow are the teams set for the Armagh IFC?
That score line would suggest Cullyhanna are in the wrong grade.
Cullyhanna were only holidaying in Intermediate, just as Derry were in Div 4 at a national level.
I suspect that Culloville, the other team promoted, would have had a much narrower scoreline today.
Ulster IFC
5/11/23 - Preliminary Round
Teemore (Fermanagh) v Liatroim (Down)
12/11/23 - Quarter Finals
Glenullin, Banagher (Derry) v Glenravel (Antrim)
Ballyhaise (Cavan) v Downings (Donegal)
Pomeroy, Moy (Tyrone) v Cullyhanna (Armagh)
Killanny, Carrickmacross (Monaghan) v Teemore/Liatroim (Fermanagh/Down)
Ulster JFC
29/10/23 - Preliminary Round
Ballyhegan (Armagh) v Fintona (Tyrone)
5/11/23 - Quarter Finals
Ballymaguigan (Derry) v Arva (Cavan)
Na Rossa (Donegal) v Lisnaskea (Fermanagh)
Blackhill (Monaghan) v Rasharkin (Antim)
Ballyhegan, Fintona (Armagh/Tyrone) v Drumaness (Down)
Why is there a difference between clubs at Junior level playing clubs from different counties to Senior and Intermd.?
How would Ballyhegan compare to last year's champions Derrynoose?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2023, 03:17:53 PMWhy is there a difference between clubs at Junior level playing clubs from different counties to Senior and Intermd.?
Senior champions is the best club in the county. The intermediate and junior champions are rather contrived subdivisions which are not the same in every county.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 26, 2023, 10:44:52 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2023, 03:17:53 PMWhy is there a difference between clubs at Junior level playing clubs from different counties to Senior and Intermd.?
Senior champions is the best club in the county. The intermediate and junior champions are rather contrived subdivisions which are not the same in every county.
But senior and intermediate is drawn the same, just junior it same.
Also GAA shouldn't be an elitist organisation, bringing junior and intermediate is their best idea for a while
Quote from: clarshack on October 26, 2023, 07:34:17 PMHow would Ballyhegan compare to last year's champions Derrynoose?
They'd be a fair bit off. They've a couple of lads who'd be fit to play on any team in the county but they were hammered by a seconds team in county final. Derrynoose be a fair bit stronger
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 27, 2023, 12:23:52 AMQuote from: clarshack on October 26, 2023, 07:34:17 PMHow would Ballyhegan compare to last year's champions Derrynoose?
They'd be a fair bit off. They've a couple of lads who'd be fit to play on any team in the county but they were hammered by a seconds team in county final. Derrynoose be a fair bit stronger
Would expect Fintona to win then by at least what Clann Eireann seconds won by.
Quote from: clarshack on October 27, 2023, 10:50:32 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 27, 2023, 12:23:52 AMQuote from: clarshack on October 26, 2023, 07:34:17 PMHow would Ballyhegan compare to last year's champions Derrynoose?
They'd be a fair bit off. They've a couple of lads who'd be fit to play on any team in the county but they were hammered by a seconds team in county final. Derrynoose be a fair bit stronger
Would expect Fintona to win then by at least what Clann Eireann seconds won by.
I'd expect a cricket score. Junior football in Armagh isn't strong at all.
Quote from: general_lee on October 27, 2023, 10:58:24 AMQuote from: clarshack on October 27, 2023, 10:50:32 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 27, 2023, 12:23:52 AMQuote from: clarshack on October 26, 2023, 07:34:17 PMHow would Ballyhegan compare to last year's champions Derrynoose?
They'd be a fair bit off. They've a couple of lads who'd be fit to play on any team in the county but they were hammered by a seconds team in county final. Derrynoose be a fair bit stronger
Would expect Fintona to win then by at least what Clann Eireann seconds won by.
I'd expect a cricket score. Junior football in Armagh isn't strong at all.
Yeah the only time we'd ever have a decent team at junior is when theres a team just dropped down or else a team that probably should have been promoted in previous years but were u lucky for one reason or another. Derrynoose i think were unlucky last year if I remember as were Belleek a few years back. Probably the strongest team in a while with 3 county lads Forkhill missed out on Ulster due to covid. Ironically one of our stronger intermediate team Clan Na Gael missed out the same year.
Down probably have the most honest Championship structure in Ulster, maybe Ireland. Our Junior teams are proper Junior teams. There are very few if any anomalies. That's why our record is so poor at Ulster JFC level.
Quote from: DownFanatic on October 27, 2023, 12:51:32 PMDown probably have the most honest Championship structure in Ulster, maybe Ireland. Our Junior teams are proper Junior teams. There are very few if any anomalies. That's why our record is so poor at Ulster JFC level.
How so? If there are 47 clubs in Tyrone and we've split them 16 Senior, 16 intermediate and 15 junior can it be done any fairer than that?
Quote from: ClubScene13 on October 27, 2023, 02:49:36 PMQuote from: DownFanatic on October 27, 2023, 12:51:32 PMDown probably have the most honest Championship structure in Ulster, maybe Ireland. Our Junior teams are proper Junior teams. There are very few if any anomalies. That's why our record is so poor at Ulster JFC level.
How so? If there are 47 clubs in Tyrone and we've split them 16 Senior, 16 intermediate and 15 junior can it be done any fairer than that?
Same with Armagh. 16 senior, 16 intermediate and 14 junior (was 16 but a couple of teams folded)
Quote from: ClubScene13 on October 27, 2023, 02:49:36 PMQuote from: DownFanatic on October 27, 2023, 12:51:32 PMDown probably have the most honest Championship structure in Ulster, maybe Ireland. Our Junior teams are proper Junior teams. There are very few if any anomalies. That's why our record is so poor at Ulster JFC level.
How so? If there are 47 clubs in Tyrone and we've split them 16 Senior, 16 intermediate and 15 junior can it be done any fairer than that?
same in Armagh
Think Monaghan is split evenly 3 ways as well.
Quote from: DownFanatic on October 27, 2023, 12:51:32 PMDown probably have the most honest Championship structure in Ulster, maybe Ireland. Our Junior teams are proper Junior teams. There are very few if any anomalies. That's why our record is so poor at Ulster JFC level.
Ours is the same our clubs are just shite tbh. Could really do with reducing each championship to 12 and bringing in a junior b championship because most of our mid to low end senior teams would be intermediate standard in most counties and most lower intermediate teams are really junior level.
In Fermanagh we have a split of 8, 8 and 4 for Junior. For a long time we didn't have a Junior Championship and just had 10 in both Senior and Intermediate (and 12 and 8 at one stage too iirc.)
Can we replace the annual Tyrone is the most competitive championship and they is why they never win Ulster" discussion with a "Down is the most honest championship and that is why their most honest team wins it"
Quote from: LeoMc on October 27, 2023, 04:41:44 PMCan we replace the annual Tyrone is the most competitive championship and they is why they never win Ulster" discussion with a "Down is the most honest championship and that is why their most honest team wins it"
;D Bravo Leo
The Kerry style championship has a lot to be said for it, surprised its not used in smaller counties like Fermanagh. I'd love to see it trialed in other counties. Run the junior championship early, get a few divisional (or most practical amalgamation) teams going play them in intermediate and see how it goes, if successful try it the next year with divisional intermediate teams in the Senior as well.
Quote from: bennydorano on October 27, 2023, 07:54:42 PMThe Kerry style championship has a lot to be said for it, surprised its not used in smaller counties like Fermanagh. I'd love to see it trialed in other counties. Run the junior championship early, get a few divisional (or most practical amalgamation) teams going play them in intermediate and see how it goes, if successful try it the next year with divisional intermediate teams in the Senior as well.
I think some GAA offical was giving out about the divisional teams this week.
It was Sean Kelly, he was behind the concept of Divisional teams with 8 Senior teams but feels it has run its course
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41252611.html
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 27, 2023, 10:19:27 PMIt was Sean Kelly, he was behind the concept of Divisional teams with 8 Senior teams but feels it has run its course
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41252611.html
Thanks.
Is that divisional concept something for Counties to consider during the split season?
Feb-June a pre-season competition with clubs or divisional sides.
With the condensed club season Clubs don't need to be flogging their players from Feb so it gives an opportunity for willing players to play at a different level against different opposition.
Fintona 1-16 Ballyhegan 1-06
Fairly easy and straight forward for Fintona, Ballyhegan had some nice forwards but not much else out the pitch.
Quote from: Aughafad on October 28, 2023, 06:56:06 PMFintona 1-16 Ballyhegan 1-06
Fairly easy and straight forward for Fintona, Ballyhegan had some nice forwards but not much else out the pitch.
Young McCormack for them would be well fit to play on any team in Armagh
Ballyhegan were the equivalent of a mid to lower half table Tyrone Junior team. Fintona will win similarly against Drumaness but Blackhill will be a completely different proposition for them in the semis.
Think the winner comes from the other side of the draw which looks much stronger. Ballymaguigan v Arva could easily be the final.
https://www.donegallive.ie/news/gaa/1340380/declan-bonner-brands-officiating-an-absolute-disgracefollowing-ulster-exit.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0NGcAzJBcKwWY3DuqmlvlSgrMSQzIbXc66s2baTVOI9JO_NCr7kVQ7RUk
Sounds like this referee totally lost the run of himself. Declan Bonner would be a well measured person.
Not the first time he's made headlines this year
As a matter of interest - is every county different in terms of whether or not there is a link between league and championship?
In Galway we used to have senior league, intermediate league, junior league etc. You played at that same grade for Championship.2 up and 2 down each year.
To get senior you either had to win the intermediate league or win the intermediate championship.
Restructure maybe 10-11 years ago removed the link between c'ship and league.
Your league division has nothing to do with what championship grade you play in at all.
My own club play junior championship but in our league (division 3) all
of the other teams play either intermediate or senior championship.
These provincial club championships are amazing competitions.
Played in a Connacht final a good few years back and was a brilliant experience.
Armagh is linked but it wasn't a few years back. Don't think Down is linked.
Quote from: galwayman on November 05, 2023, 12:27:03 PMAs a matter of interest - is every county different in terms of whether or not there is a link between league and championship?
In Galway we used to have senior league, intermediate league, junior league etc. You played at that same grade for Championship.2 up and 2 down each year.
To get senior you either had to win the intermediate league or win the intermediate championship.
Restructure maybe 10-11 years ago removed the link between c'ship and league.
Your league division has nothing to do with what championship grade you play in at all.
My own club play junior championship but in our league (division 3) all
of the other teams play either intermediate or senior championship.
These provincial club championships are amazing competitions.
Played in a Connacht final a good few years back and was a brilliant experience.
There should be a link between league and championship, probably the fairest way when it comes to provincial club competitions. Cavan have a similar set up with Division 1 clubs plying their trade at Junior level - pretty ridiculous that clubs good enough to play Division 1 football are able to compete against genuine Junior clubs in Ulster competition.
Quote from: general_lee on November 05, 2023, 01:33:20 PMQuote from: galwayman on November 05, 2023, 12:27:03 PMAs a matter of interest - is every county different in terms of whether or not there is a link between league and championship?
In Galway we used to have senior league, intermediate league, junior league etc. You played at that same grade for Championship.2 up and 2 down each year.
To get senior you either had to win the intermediate league or win the intermediate championship.
Restructure maybe 10-11 years ago removed the link between c'ship and league.
Your league division has nothing to do with what championship grade you play in at all.
My own club play junior championship but in our league (division 3) all
of the other teams play either intermediate or senior championship.
These provincial club championships are amazing competitions.
Played in a Connacht final a good few years back and was a brilliant experience.
There should be a link between league and championship, probably the fairest way when it comes to provincial club competitions. Cavan have a similar set up with Division 1 clubs plying their trade at Junior level - pretty ridiculous that clubs good enough to play Division 1 football are able to compete against genuine Junior clubs in Ulster competition.
Quote from: general_lee on November 05, 2023, 01:33:20 PMQuote from: galwayman on November 05, 2023, 12:27:03 PMAs a matter of interest - is every county different in terms of whether or not there is a link between league and championship?
In Galway we used to have senior league, intermediate league, junior league etc. You played at that same grade for Championship.2 up and 2 down each year.
To get senior you either had to win the intermediate league or win the intermediate championship.
Restructure maybe 10-11 years ago removed the link between c'ship and league.
Your league division has nothing to do with what championship grade you play in at all.
My own club play junior championship but in our league (division 3) all
of the other teams play either intermediate or senior championship.
These provincial club championships are amazing competitions.
Played in a Connacht final a good few years back and was a brilliant experience.
There should be a link between league and championship, probably the fairest way when it comes to provincial club competitions. Cavan have a similar set up with Division 1 clubs plying their trade at Junior level - pretty ridiculous that clubs good enough to play Division 1 football are able to compete against genuine Junior clubs in Ulster competition.
Don't see why there should be a link. Teams play without county players for league so some teams would have a huge advantage. Arva winning comfortably despite playing a lot of game with 14.
Quote from: mrdeeds on November 05, 2023, 03:14:43 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 05, 2023, 01:33:20 PMQuote from: galwayman on November 05, 2023, 12:27:03 PMAs a matter of interest - is every county different in terms of whether or not there is a link between league and championship?
In Galway we used to have senior league, intermediate league, junior league etc. You played at that same grade for Championship.2 up and 2 down each year.
To get senior you either had to win the intermediate league or win the intermediate championship.
Restructure maybe 10-11 years ago removed the link between c'ship and league.
Your league division has nothing to do with what championship grade you play in at all.
My own club play junior championship but in our league (division 3) all
of the other teams play either intermediate or senior championship.
These provincial club championships are amazing competitions.
Played in a Connacht final a good few years back and was a brilliant experience.
There should be a link between league and championship, probably the fairest way when it comes to provincial club competitions. Cavan have a similar set up with Division 1 clubs plying their trade at Junior level - pretty ridiculous that clubs good enough to play Division 1 football are able to compete against genuine Junior clubs in Ulster competition.
Quote from: general_lee on November 05, 2023, 01:33:20 PMQuote from: galwayman on November 05, 2023, 12:27:03 PMAs a matter of interest - is every county different in terms of whether or not there is a link between league and championship?
In Galway we used to have senior league, intermediate league, junior league etc. You played at that same grade for Championship.2 up and 2 down each year.
To get senior you either had to win the intermediate league or win the intermediate championship.
Restructure maybe 10-11 years ago removed the link between c'ship and league.
Your league division has nothing to do with what championship grade you play in at all.
My own club play junior championship but in our league (division 3) all
of the other teams play either intermediate or senior championship.
These provincial club championships are amazing competitions.
Played in a Connacht final a good few years back and was a brilliant experience.
There should be a link between league and championship, probably the fairest way when it comes to provincial club competitions. Cavan have a similar set up with Division 1 clubs plying their trade at Junior level - pretty ridiculous that clubs good enough to play Division 1 football are able to compete against genuine Junior clubs in Ulster competition.
Don't wee why there should be a link. Teams play without county players for league so some teams would have a huge advantage. Arva winning comfortably despite playing a lot of game with 14.
But if you're fit to play division 1 league without your county players why should you be playing junior championship with your county players lol
Arva battered Ballymaguigan by 15 points and Ballymaguigan are no mugs. Looks very ominous for the rest of the teams left in the Ulster Junior Championship..
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 03:20:42 PMQuote from: mrdeeds on November 05, 2023, 03:14:43 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 05, 2023, 01:33:20 PMQuote from: galwayman on November 05, 2023, 12:27:03 PMAs a matter of interest - is every county different in terms of whether or not there is a link between league and championship?
In Galway we used to have senior league, intermediate league, junior league etc. You played at that same grade for Championship.2 up and 2 down each year.
To get senior you either had to win the intermediate league or win the intermediate championship.
Restructure maybe 10-11 years ago removed the link between c'ship and league.
Your league division has nothing to do with what championship grade you play in at all.
My own club play junior championship but in our league (division 3) all
of the other teams play either intermediate or senior championship.
These provincial club championships are amazing competitions.
Played in a Connacht final a good few years back and was a brilliant experience.
There should be a link between league and championship, probably the fairest way when it comes to provincial club competitions. Cavan have a similar set up with Division 1 clubs plying their trade at Junior level - pretty ridiculous that clubs good enough to play Division 1 football are able to compete against genuine Junior clubs in Ulster competition.
Quote from: general_lee on November 05, 2023, 01:33:20 PMQuote from: galwayman on November 05, 2023, 12:27:03 PMAs a matter of interest - is every county different in terms of whether or not there is a link between league and championship?
In Galway we used to have senior league, intermediate league, junior league etc. You played at that same grade for Championship.2 up and 2 down each year.
To get senior you either had to win the intermediate league or win the intermediate championship.
Restructure maybe 10-11 years ago removed the link between c'ship and league.
Your league division has nothing to do with what championship grade you play in at all.
My own club play junior championship but in our league (division 3) all
of the other teams play either intermediate or senior championship.
These provincial club championships are amazing competitions.
Played in a Connacht final a good few years back and was a brilliant experience.
There should be a link between league and championship, probably the fairest way when it comes to provincial club competitions. Cavan have a similar set up with Division 1 clubs plying their trade at Junior level - pretty ridiculous that clubs good enough to play Division 1 football are able to compete against genuine Junior clubs in Ulster competition.
Don't wee why there should be a link. Teams play without county players for league so some teams would have a huge advantage. Arva winning comfortably despite playing a lot of game with 14.
But if you're fit to play division 1 league without your county players why should you be playing junior championship with your county players lol
That's one outlier. When they got from division 3 to 1 they only had Ciaran Brady in county panel. Now have 3. A competition by it's nature is meant to be fair and even so linking two is in no way fair.
Who are Arva's 2 other county players?
The reason I like the fact that there is no link is that the league can go ahead to conclusion without county players. Not sure that would be the case if it affected your championship status.
We get a league game every two weeks uninterrupted from early March up until early July (dual county so alternate football and hurling weekends). And then a short 3-4 weeks until first round of championship.
Much better than it used to be
Quote from: clarshack on November 05, 2023, 03:36:58 PMWho are Arva's 2 other county players?
Tristan Noack Hoffman and Johnaton McCabe.
Quote from: general_lee on November 05, 2023, 01:33:20 PMQuote from: galwayman on November 05, 2023, 12:27:03 PMAs a matter of interest - is every county different in terms of whether or not there is a link between league and championship?
In Galway we used to have senior league, intermediate league, junior league etc. You played at that same grade for Championship.2 up and 2 down each year.
To get senior you either had to win the intermediate league or win the intermediate championship.
Restructure maybe 10-11 years ago removed the link between c'ship and league.
Your league division has nothing to do with what championship grade you play in at all.
My own club play junior championship but in our league (division 3) all
of the other teams play either intermediate or senior championship.
These provincial club championships are amazing competitions.
Played in a Connacht final a good few years back and was a brilliant experience.
There should be a link between league and championship, probably the fairest way when it comes to provincial club competitions. Cavan have a similar set up with Division 1 clubs plying their trade at Junior level - pretty ridiculous that clubs good enough to play Division 1 football are able to compete against genuine Junior clubs in Ulster competition.
Div. 1 league teams should be in senior championship, Div. 2 in Intermediate and Div. 3 should be in Junior championship.
Mad that clubs in Cavan play Div. 1 but play Junior - crazy stuff.
Each to their own i suppose whatever works in each county. In Armagh its more or less accepted you won't have your county men for the bulk of the league so you just forget about them but its still linked.
Totally agree with Marty above.
Quote from: mrdeeds on November 05, 2023, 03:52:42 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 05, 2023, 03:36:58 PMWho are Arva's 2 other county players?
Tristan Noack Hoffman and Johnaton McCabe.
They'll have plenty of ex Cavan Minor & U-20/21 players too?
Quote from: mrdeeds on November 05, 2023, 03:14:43 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 05, 2023, 01:33:20 PMQuote from: galwayman on November 05, 2023, 12:27:03 PMAs a matter of interest - is every county different in terms of whether or not there is a link between league and championship?
In Galway we used to have senior league, intermediate league, junior league etc. You played at that same grade for Championship.2 up and 2 down each year.
To get senior you either had to win the intermediate league or win the intermediate championship.
Restructure maybe 10-11 years ago removed the link between c'ship and league.
Your league division has nothing to do with what championship grade you play in at all.
My own club play junior championship but in our league (division 3) all
of the other teams play either intermediate or senior championship.
These provincial club championships are amazing competitions.
Played in a Connacht final a good few years back and was a brilliant experience.
There should be a link between league and championship, probably the fairest way when it comes to provincial club competitions. Cavan have a similar set up with Division 1 clubs plying their trade at Junior level - pretty ridiculous that clubs good enough to play Division 1 football are able to compete against genuine Junior clubs in Ulster competition.
Quote from: general_lee on November 05, 2023, 01:33:20 PMQuote from: galwayman on November 05, 2023, 12:27:03 PMAs a matter of interest - is every county different in terms of whether or not there is a link between league and championship?
In Galway we used to have senior league, intermediate league, junior league etc. You played at that same grade for Championship.2 up and 2 down each year.
To get senior you either had to win the intermediate league or win the intermediate championship.
Restructure maybe 10-11 years ago removed the link between c'ship and league.
Your league division has nothing to do with what championship grade you play in at all.
My own club play junior championship but in our league (division 3) all
of the other teams play either intermediate or senior championship.
These provincial club championships are amazing competitions.
Played in a Connacht final a good few years back and was a brilliant experience.
There should be a link between league and championship, probably the fairest way when it comes to provincial club competitions. Cavan have a similar set up with Division 1 clubs plying their trade at Junior level - pretty ridiculous that clubs good enough to play Division 1 football are able to compete against genuine Junior clubs in Ulster competition.
Don't see why there should be a link. Teams play without county players for league so some teams would have a huge advantage. Arva winning comfortably despite playing a lot of game with 14.
Quote from: clarshack on November 05, 2023, 03:29:36 PMArva battered Ballymaguigan by 15 points and Ballymaguigan are no mugs. Looks very ominous for the rest of the teams left in the Ulster Junior Championship..
Great to see Arva prevail at the expense of the Derry Div 3 junior champions.
Maybe Derry should send Loup or Newbridge into junior next year, pick up some junior level silverware
Quote from: clarshack on November 05, 2023, 04:08:39 PMQuote from: mrdeeds on November 05, 2023, 03:52:42 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 05, 2023, 03:36:58 PMWho are Arva's 2 other county players?
Tristan Noack Hoffman and Johnaton McCabe.
They'll have plenty of ex Cavan Minor & U-20/21 players too?
Yeah the Morris brothers and Bouchier. They were probably knocking about the senior panel too I think.
Stewartstown were fortunate enough to beat Drumlane who knocked out Arva last season and Stewartstown were only in Junior due to Covid. Just can't see the Cavan champions getting caught out this year.
Will next year too see Knockbride playing in Division 1 having won the Division 2 Final and playing in the Junior Championship?
Quote from: JoG2 on November 05, 2023, 04:16:25 PMQuote from: mrdeeds on November 05, 2023, 03:14:43 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 05, 2023, 01:33:20 PMQuote from: galwayman on November 05, 2023, 12:27:03 PMAs a matter of interest - is every county different in terms of whether or not there is a link between league and championship?
In Galway we used to have senior league, intermediate league, junior league etc. You played at that same grade for Championship.2 up and 2 down each year.
To get senior you either had to win the intermediate league or win the intermediate championship.
Restructure maybe 10-11 years ago removed the link between c'ship and league.
Your league division has nothing to do with what championship grade you play in at all.
My own club play junior championship but in our league (division 3) all
of the other teams play either intermediate or senior championship.
These provincial club championships are amazing competitions.
Played in a Connacht final a good few years back and was a brilliant experience.
There should be a link between league and championship, probably the fairest way when it comes to provincial club competitions. Cavan have a similar set up with Division 1 clubs plying their trade at Junior level - pretty ridiculous that clubs good enough to play Division 1 football are able to compete against genuine Junior clubs in Ulster competition.
Quote from: general_lee on November 05, 2023, 01:33:20 PMQuote from: galwayman on November 05, 2023, 12:27:03 PMAs a matter of interest - is every county different in terms of whether or not there is a link between league and championship?
In Galway we used to have senior league, intermediate league, junior league etc. You played at that same grade for Championship.2 up and 2 down each year.
To get senior you either had to win the intermediate league or win the intermediate championship.
Restructure maybe 10-11 years ago removed the link between c'ship and league.
Your league division has nothing to do with what championship grade you play in at all.
My own club play junior championship but in our league (division 3) all
of the other teams play either intermediate or senior championship.
These provincial club championships are amazing competitions.
Played in a Connacht final a good few years back and was a brilliant experience.
There should be a link between league and championship, probably the fairest way when it comes to provincial club competitions. Cavan have a similar set up with Division 1 clubs plying their trade at Junior level - pretty ridiculous that clubs good enough to play Division 1 football are able to compete against genuine Junior clubs in Ulster competition.
Don't see why there should be a link. Teams play without county players for league so some teams would have a huge advantage. Arva winning comfortably despite playing a lot of game with 14.
Quote from: clarshack on November 05, 2023, 03:29:36 PMArva battered Ballymaguigan by 15 points and Ballymaguigan are no mugs. Looks very ominous for the rest of the teams left in the Ulster Junior Championship..
Great to see Arva prevail at the expense of the Derry Div 3 junior champions.
Maybe Derry should send Loup or Newbridge into junior next year, pick up some junior level silverware
To be fair I see the Swa had a handsome win in Ulster Junior hurling championship yesterday.
Quote from: mrdeeds on November 05, 2023, 03:31:59 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 03:20:42 PMQuote from: mrdeeds on November 05, 2023, 03:14:43 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 05, 2023, 01:33:20 PMQuote from: galwayman on November 05, 2023, 12:27:03 PMAs a matter of interest - is every county different in terms of whether or not there is a link between league and championship?
In Galway we used to have senior league, intermediate league, junior league etc. You played at that same grade for Championship.2 up and 2 down each year.
To get senior you either had to win the intermediate league or win the intermediate championship.
Restructure maybe 10-11 years ago removed the link between c'ship and league.
Your league division has nothing to do with what championship grade you play in at all.
My own club play junior championship but in our league (division 3) all
of the other teams play either intermediate or senior championship.
These provincial club championships are amazing competitions.
Played in a Connacht final a good few years back and was a brilliant experience.
There should be a link between league and championship, probably the fairest way when it comes to provincial club competitions. Cavan have a similar set up with Division 1 clubs plying their trade at Junior level - pretty ridiculous that clubs good enough to play Division 1 football are able to compete against genuine Junior clubs in Ulster competition.
Quote from: general_lee on November 05, 2023, 01:33:20 PMQuote from: galwayman on November 05, 2023, 12:27:03 PMAs a matter of interest - is every county different in terms of whether or not there is a link between league and championship?
In Galway we used to have senior league, intermediate league, junior league etc. You played at that same grade for Championship.2 up and 2 down each year.
To get senior you either had to win the intermediate league or win the intermediate championship.
Restructure maybe 10-11 years ago removed the link between c'ship and league.
Your league division has nothing to do with what championship grade you play in at all.
My own club play junior championship but in our league (division 3) all
of the other teams play either intermediate or senior championship.
These provincial club championships are amazing competitions.
Played in a Connacht final a good few years back and was a brilliant experience.
There should be a link between league and championship, probably the fairest way when it comes to provincial club competitions. Cavan have a similar set up with Division 1 clubs plying their trade at Junior level - pretty ridiculous that clubs good enough to play Division 1 football are able to compete against genuine Junior clubs in Ulster competition.
Don't wee why there should be a link. Teams play without county players for league so some teams would have a huge advantage. Arva winning comfortably despite playing a lot of game with 14.
But if you're fit to play division 1 league without your county players why should you be playing junior championship with your county players lol
That's one outlier. When they got from division 3 to 1 they only had Ciaran Brady in county panel. Now have 3. A competition by it's nature is meant to be fair and even so linking two is in no way fair.
How's it not fair? You're either one of Senior, intermediate or junior. I've never seen anything as ridiculous in my life as Division 1 clubs playing Junior football.
Let's have a quick check, in which Ulster counties are league and championship linked.
As you know, Cavan = not linked
What about the other Ulster counties?
Fyi few counties around me - Sligo, mayo, Galway = not linked
Down was linked and was based on your league finishing position up until COVID then it changed.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 05, 2023, 07:47:07 PMAntrim linked (though you can apply to play up, you can't play down)
Armagh linked
Tyrone linked
So let me get this right. I those counties if you win intermediate you are automatically promoted to senior and to Div1?
If you win Div2 league you automatically get promoted to the senior Championship too?
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 07:39:19 PMLet's have a quick check, in which Ulster counties are league and championship linked.
As you know, Cavan = not linked
What about the other Ulster counties?
Fyi few counties around me - Sligo, mayo, Galway = not linked
Why don't we check which counties in Ulster have Division 1 clubs playing Junior Championship:
Cavan
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 07:57:05 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 05, 2023, 07:47:07 PMAntrim linked (though you can apply to play up, you can't play down)
Armagh linked
Tyrone linked
So let me get this right. I those counties if you win intermediate you are automatically promoted to senior and to Div1?
If you win Div2 league you automatically get promoted to the senior Championship too?
Of course
[l
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 05, 2023, 07:47:07 PMAntrim linked (though you can apply to play up, you can't play down)
Armagh linked
Tyrone linked
Probably not a bad idea.
For example Cullyhanna there this year didnt win the league but got their 3 county men back and steamrolled the championship. Them being relegated though was an outlier due to retirements, emigration and county men missing. If they keep the lads together they'll probably finish mid to high table in the league and give senior championship a very good rattle with the county men in.
Quote from: general_lee on November 05, 2023, 07:57:25 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 07:39:19 PMLet's have a quick check, in which Ulster counties are league and championship linked.
As you know, Cavan = not linked
What about the other Ulster counties?
Fyi few counties around me - Sligo, mayo, Galway = not linked
Why don't we check which counties in Ulster have Division 1 clubs playing Junior Championship:
Cavan
I see what you did there, you are very clever
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 08:04:18 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 05, 2023, 07:57:25 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 07:39:19 PMLet's have a quick check, in which Ulster counties are league and championship linked.
As you know, Cavan = not linked
What about the other Ulster counties?
Fyi few counties around me - Sligo, mayo, Galway = not linked
Why don't we check which counties in Ulster have Division 1 clubs playing Junior Championship:
Cavan
I see what you did there, you are very clever
I genuinely can't see the argument for a team that plays division 1 football to play at a lower level in championship. Can understand a team maybe playing up a level if they usually play league games without s few county men who make a big difference when they come back for the championship.
In Tyrone the reason (or so I was told) for championship winners also being promoted into the league above was that they would be better prepared for the championship the following year by playing teams at the same level in that league.
IMHO I think there should be a rule that if there is a 2 Division gap (Division 1/Junior) like in the case of Arva then they don't get to play in the provincial championships like Divisional and 3rd teams don't get to play either.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 07:58:27 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 07:57:05 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 05, 2023, 07:47:07 PMAntrim linked (though you can apply to play up, you can't play down)
Armagh linked
Tyrone linked
So let me get this right. I those counties if you win intermediate you are automatically promoted to senior and to Div1?
If you win Div2 league you automatically get promoted to the senior Championship too?
Of course
Ok but then how do you keep equal teams in your league and championship? Isn't it possible 2 teams could go up to senior every year (intermediate champions and Div2 winners). Do 2 teams get related then when that happens?
Quote from: clarshack on November 05, 2023, 08:07:47 PMIn Tyrone the reason (or so I was told) for championship winners also being promoted into the league above was that they would be better prepared for the championship the following year by playing teams at the same level in that league.
IMHO I think there should be a rule that if there is a 2 Division gap (Division 1/Junior) like in the case of Arva then they don't get to play in the provincial championships like Divisional and 3rd teams don't get to play either.
Maybe so. However this is a very unusual occurrence. I think I remember it happened in Cavan once before with Drumgoon, prob 20 yrs ago.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 07:58:27 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 07:57:05 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 05, 2023, 07:47:07 PMAntrim linked (though you can apply to play up, you can't play down)
Armagh linked
Tyrone linked
So let me get this right. I those counties if you win intermediate you are automatically promoted to senior and to Div1?
If you win Div2 league you automatically get promoted to the senior Championship too?
Of course
No if you win Intermediate in Antrim you play senior championship the next year but do not get promoted
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 05, 2023, 08:15:01 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 07:58:27 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 07:57:05 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 05, 2023, 07:47:07 PMAntrim linked (though you can apply to play up, you can't play down)
Armagh linked
Tyrone linked
So let me get this right. I those counties if you win intermediate you are automatically promoted to senior and to Div1?
If you win Div2 league you automatically get promoted to the senior Championship too?
Of course
No if you win Intermediate in Antrim you play senior championship the next year but do not get promoted
So Antrim is not linked in that case.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 08:06:40 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 08:04:18 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 05, 2023, 07:57:25 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 07:39:19 PMLet's have a quick check, in which Ulster counties are league and championship linked.
As you know, Cavan = not linked
What about the other Ulster counties?
Fyi few counties around me - Sligo, mayo, Galway = not linked
Why don't we check which counties in Ulster have Division 1 clubs playing Junior Championship:
Cavan
I see what you did there, you are very clever
I genuinely can't see the argument for a team that plays division 1 football to play at a lower level in championship. Can understand a team maybe playing up a level if they usually play league games without s few county men who make a big difference when they come back for the championship.
There's no argument. It's unfair in the extreme. 'Guigan are a good junior side. For them to go up against a Div 1 is absolutely ridiculous and makes a farce of the competition...it usually takes the competition to reach farcical levels @ All Ireland semi final stages when you get a junior team v Kerry Div 1 turkey shoot.
Quote from: JoG2 on November 05, 2023, 08:22:37 PMThere's no argument. It's unfair in the extreme. 'Guigan are a good junior side. For them to go up against a Div 1 is absolutely ridiculous and makes a farce of the competition...it usually takes the competition to reach farcical levels @ All Ireland semi final stages when you get a junior team v Kerry Div 1 turkey shoot.
I actually would have had Ballymaguigan ranked joint 2nd with Blackhill out of the 9 teams before the competition started with Fintona next.
Looking at Wikipedia only 3 Cavan clubs have won this competition since 2001.
Keeping league and championship seperate I suggest is the way the vast majority of counties do things as far as I'm aware (that's why I asked for what other counties do).
Anyway, Arva haven't won anything yet.
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 08:10:15 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 07:58:27 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 07:57:05 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 05, 2023, 07:47:07 PMAntrim linked (though you can apply to play up, you can't play down)
Armagh linked
Tyrone linked
So let me get this right. I those counties if you win intermediate you are automatically promoted to senior and to Div1?
If you win Div2 league you automatically get promoted to the senior Championship too?
Of course
Ok but then how do you keep equal teams in your league and championship? Isn't it possible 2 teams could go up to senior every year (intermediate champions and Div2 winners). Do 2 teams get related then when that happens?
2 up 2 down every year. So we have leagues of 8 senior A and B, intermediate A and B and Junior which splits into A and B half way through the year. Bottom 2 in senior A drop to senior B, and so on. Intermediate A league winners and winners of intermediate championship go straight to senior B league the following year. If a team does the double then 2nd in the league go up with them.
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 08:34:01 PMLooking at Wikipedia only 3 Cavan clubs have won this competition since 2001.
Keeping league and championship seperate I suggest is the way the vast majority of counties do things as far as I'm aware (that's why I asked for what other counties do).
Anyway, Arva haven't won anything yet.
Arva's biggest test before they play Listowel in the All Ireland Final (yes it's that predictable) will be the Twinning Final/All Ireland 1/4 Final against the British Champions most likely Wandsworth Gaels who beat Glasgow Gaels today in the semis.
Anyone in owenbeg today? Reports that referee was pushed and linesman hit by a Ballymaguigan player who was sent off.
Quote from: SHEEDY on November 05, 2023, 08:42:19 PMAnyone in owenbeg today? Reports that referee was pushed and linesman hit by a Ballymaguigan player who was sent off.
https://www.northernsound.ie/sport/arva-too-strong-for-ballymaguigan-in-ill-tempered-contest-225254?utm_campaign=web&utm_source=messenger&utm_medium=web
Quote from: Brendan on November 05, 2023, 09:10:11 PMQuote from: SHEEDY on November 05, 2023, 08:42:19 PMAnyone in owenbeg today? Reports that referee was pushed and linesman hit by a Ballymaguigan player who was sent off.
https://www.northernsound.ie/sport/arva-too-strong-for-ballymaguigan-in-ill-tempered-contest-225254?utm_campaign=web&utm_source=messenger&utm_medium=web
That referee did the Ulster Junior Final between Stewartstown and Drumlane last season and while the Harps ended up lifting the trophy he absolutely favoured the Cavan team throughout the contest. I'm not surprised to see a headline like this and the Ulster Council have had a nightmare this weekend with referees in the Ulster Junior Championship. He's a Donegal referee but somebody told me he is a Guard stationed in Cavan but don't know how true that is. Think there was controversy with him as well in the 2022 Donegal Senior Final.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 05, 2023, 09:29:01 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 05, 2023, 09:25:13 PMQuote from: Brendan on November 05, 2023, 09:10:11 PMQuote from: SHEEDY on November 05, 2023, 08:42:19 PMAnyone in owenbeg today? Reports that referee was pushed and linesman hit by a Ballymaguigan player who was sent off.
https://www.northernsound.ie/sport/arva-too-strong-for-ballymaguigan-in-ill-tempered-contest-225254?utm_campaign=web&utm_source=messenger&utm_medium=web
That referee did the Ulster Junior Final between Stewartstown and Drumlane last season and while the Harps ended up lifting the trophy he absolutely favoured the Cavan team throughout the contest. I'm not surprised to see a headline like this and the Ulster Council have had a nightmare this weekend with referees in the Ulster Junior Championship. He's a Donegal referee but somebody told me he is a Guard stationed in Cavan but don't know how true that is.
And the linesman??
Wee bit of victim blaming going on there. They were getting tanked with a minute left despite being a man up from before half time.
3 controversies that we know of with this referee in just over a year.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 05, 2023, 08:51:31 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 08:22:05 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on November 05, 2023, 08:15:01 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 07:58:27 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 07:57:05 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 05, 2023, 07:47:07 PMAntrim linked (though you can apply to play up, you can't play down)
Armagh linked
Tyrone linked
So let me get this right. I those counties if you win intermediate you are automatically promoted to senior and to Div1?
If you win Div2 league you automatically get promoted to the senior Championship too?
Of course
No if you win Intermediate in Antrim you play senior championship the next year but do not get promoted
So Antrim is not linked in that case.
Sorry, I thought I explained that. It is linked in that you cannot play down. If you are Division 1 you can't play intermediate or junior. If you are Division 2, you can't play junior. But you can play up. You might have to or you can apply to.
So just to clarify, if in Antrim you are a Junior Club in Div3. You win the Div3 league but you do not win the Junior championship. In this case next year you are in Div2 and also in the intermediate championship?
Quote from: clarshack on November 05, 2023, 09:58:22 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 05, 2023, 09:29:01 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 05, 2023, 09:25:13 PMQuote from: Brendan on November 05, 2023, 09:10:11 PMQuote from: SHEEDY on November 05, 2023, 08:42:19 PMAnyone in owenbeg today? Reports that referee was pushed and linesman hit by a Ballymaguigan player who was sent off.
https://www.northernsound.ie/sport/arva-too-strong-for-ballymaguigan-in-ill-tempered-contest-225254?utm_campaign=web&utm_source=messenger&utm_medium=web
That referee did the Ulster Junior Final between Stewartstown and Drumlane last season and while the Harps ended up lifting the trophy he absolutely favoured the Cavan team throughout the contest. I'm not surprised to see a headline like this and the Ulster Council have had a nightmare this weekend with referees in the Ulster Junior Championship. He's a Donegal referee but somebody told me he is a Guard stationed in Cavan but don't know how true that is.
And the linesman??
Wee bit of victim blaming going on there. They were getting tanked with a minute left despite being a man up from before half time.
3 controversies that we know of with this referee in just over a year.
He must be quare biased to cause his favourite team to win by 15 points even after playing half the game with 14 men
There is also no excuse to push a referee and strike a linesman. The big man that did it will be getting 12 month ban and deserves it too.
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 10:08:05 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 05, 2023, 09:58:22 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 05, 2023, 09:29:01 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 05, 2023, 09:25:13 PMQuote from: Brendan on November 05, 2023, 09:10:11 PMQuote from: SHEEDY on November 05, 2023, 08:42:19 PMAnyone in owenbeg today? Reports that referee was pushed and linesman hit by a Ballymaguigan player who was sent off.
https://www.northernsound.ie/sport/arva-too-strong-for-ballymaguigan-in-ill-tempered-contest-225254?utm_campaign=web&utm_source=messenger&utm_medium=web
That referee did the Ulster Junior Final between Stewartstown and Drumlane last season and while the Harps ended up lifting the trophy he absolutely favoured the Cavan team throughout the contest. I'm not surprised to see a headline like this and the Ulster Council have had a nightmare this weekend with referees in the Ulster Junior Championship. He's a Donegal referee but somebody told me he is a Guard stationed in Cavan but don't know how true that is.
And the linesman??
Wee bit of victim blaming going on there. They were getting tanked with a minute left despite being a man up from before half time.
3 controversies that we know of with this referee in just over a year.
He must be quare biased to cause his favourite team to win by 15 points even after playing half the game with 14 men
There is also no excuse to push a referee and strike a linesman. The big man that did it will be getting 12 month ban and deserves it too.
Agree that there is no excuse for what happened just saying that he seems to be a controversial referee.
Quote from: general_lee on November 05, 2023, 05:59:30 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 05, 2023, 04:16:25 PMQuote from: mrdeeds on November 05, 2023, 03:14:43 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 05, 2023, 01:33:20 PMQuote from: galwayman on November 05, 2023, 12:27:03 PMAs a matter of interest - is every county different in terms of whether or not there is a link between league and championship?
In Galway we used to have senior league, intermediate league, junior league etc. You played at that same grade for Championship.2 up and 2 down each year.
To get senior you either had to win the intermediate league or win the intermediate championship.
Restructure maybe 10-11 years ago removed the link between c'ship and league.
Your league division has nothing to do with what championship grade you play in at all.
My own club play junior championship but in our league (division 3) all
of the other teams play either intermediate or senior championship.
These provincial club championships are amazing competitions.
Played in a Connacht final a good few years back and was a brilliant experience.
There should be a link between league and championship, probably the fairest way when it comes to provincial club competitions. Cavan have a similar set up with Division 1 clubs plying their trade at Junior level - pretty ridiculous that clubs good enough to play Division 1 football are able to compete against genuine Junior clubs in Ulster competition.
Quote from: general_lee on November 05, 2023, 01:33:20 PMQuote from: galwayman on November 05, 2023, 12:27:03 PMAs a matter of interest - is every county different in terms of whether or not there is a link between league and championship?
In Galway we used to have senior league, intermediate league, junior league etc. You played at that same grade for Championship.2 up and 2 down each year.
To get senior you either had to win the intermediate league or win the intermediate championship.
Restructure maybe 10-11 years ago removed the link between c'ship and league.
Your league division has nothing to do with what championship grade you play in at all.
My own club play junior championship but in our league (division 3) all
of the other teams play either intermediate or senior championship.
These provincial club championships are amazing competitions.
Played in a Connacht final a good few years back and was a brilliant experience.
There should be a link between league and championship, probably the fairest way when it comes to provincial club competitions. Cavan have a similar set up with Division 1 clubs plying their trade at Junior level - pretty ridiculous that clubs good enough to play Division 1 football are able to compete against genuine Junior clubs in Ulster competition.
Don't see why there should be a link. Teams play without county players for league so some teams would have a huge advantage. Arva winning comfortably despite playing a lot of game with 14.
Quote from: clarshack on November 05, 2023, 03:29:36 PMArva battered Ballymaguigan by 15 points and Ballymaguigan are no mugs. Looks very ominous for the rest of the teams left in the Ulster Junior Championship..
Great to see Arva prevail at the expense of the Derry Div 3 junior champions.
Maybe Derry should send Loup or Newbridge into junior next year, pick up some junior level silverware
To be fair I see the Swa had a handsome win in Ulster Junior hurling championship yesterday.
Fair point.
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 08:04:18 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 05, 2023, 07:57:25 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 07:39:19 PMLet's have a quick check, in which Ulster counties are league and championship linked.
As you know, Cavan = not linked
What about the other Ulster counties?
Fyi few counties around me - Sligo, mayo, Galway = not linked
Why don't we check which counties in Ulster have Division 1 clubs playing Junior Championship:
Cavan
I see what you did there, you are very clever
Crazy that Div. 1 team can play Junior championship - a complete farce.
In Derry, to get relegated to Intermediate championship would be an embarrassment. They'd find some loop hole to get out of it and stay in senior.
Quote from: marty34 on November 05, 2023, 10:33:48 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 08:04:18 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 05, 2023, 07:57:25 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 07:39:19 PMLet's have a quick check, in which Ulster counties are league and championship linked.
As you know, Cavan = not linked
What about the other Ulster counties?
Fyi few counties around me - Sligo, mayo, Galway = not linked
Why don't we check which counties in Ulster have Division 1 clubs playing Junior Championship:
Cavan
I see what you did there, you are very clever
Crazy that Div. 1 team can play Junior championship - a complete farce.
In Derry, to get relegated to Intermediate championship would be an embarrassment. They'd find some loop hole to get out of it and stay in senior.
The biggest farce in the history of the competition were the Cliffords running around pretending they were Junior Club players.
Quote from: clarshack on November 05, 2023, 10:39:34 PMQuote from: marty34 on November 05, 2023, 10:33:48 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 08:04:18 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 05, 2023, 07:57:25 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 07:39:19 PMLet's have a quick check, in which Ulster counties are league and championship linked.
As you know, Cavan = not linked
What about the other Ulster counties?
Fyi few counties around me - Sligo, mayo, Galway = not linked
Why don't we check which counties in Ulster have Division 1 clubs playing Junior Championship:
Cavan
I see what you did there, you are very clever
Crazy that Div. 1 team can play Junior championship - a complete farce.
In Derry, to get relegated to Intermediate championship would be an embarrassment. They'd find some loop hole to get out of it and stay in senior.
The biggest farce in the history of the competition were the Cliffords running around pretending they were Junior Club players.
Fossa are a tiny club with a couple of once in a lifetime players.
That's what the Kerry boys want you to think. It's a myth that they are a tiny club. They had some list of players listed in the programme for the All-Ireland series last year. Just look at their FB page and between mens and ladies they are similar to the likes of Clonoe in Tyrone.
Quote from: clarshack on November 05, 2023, 11:38:11 PMThat's what the Kerry boys want you to think. It's a myth that they are a tiny club. They had some list of players listed in the programme for the All-Ireland series last year. Just look at their FB page and between mens and ladies they are similar to the likes of Clonoe in Tyrone.
Could be wrong but thought they had never won a junior before the Clifford lads came along? Anyway they'll probably win an AI intermediate this year anyway.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 06, 2023, 12:09:37 AMQuote from: clarshack on November 05, 2023, 11:38:11 PMThat's what the Kerry boys want you to think. It's a myth that they are a tiny club. They had some list of players listed in the programme for the All-Ireland series last year. Just look at their FB page and between mens and ladies they are similar to the likes of Clonoe in Tyrone.
Could be wrong but thought they had never won a junior before the Clifford lads came along? Anyway they'll probably win an AI intermediate this year anyway.
Will play in Div 2 next year for the first time ever. Won junior for the first time last year.
By the way, Clifford parents met in Dublin while both working in Dept of Justice. That was the Dept moved to Killarney a few decades ago....probably on a toss of a coin or some such government policy. So the lads could have been born anywhere. Except the wee six, obviously.
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 10:04:18 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 05, 2023, 08:51:31 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 08:22:05 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on November 05, 2023, 08:15:01 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 07:58:27 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 07:57:05 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 05, 2023, 07:47:07 PMAntrim linked (though you can apply to play up, you can't play down)
Armagh linked
Tyrone linked
So let me get this right. I those counties if you win intermediate you are automatically promoted to senior and to Div1?
If you win Div2 league you automatically get promoted to the senior Championship too?
Of course
No if you win Intermediate in Antrim you play senior championship the next year but do not get promoted
So Antrim is not linked in that case.
Sorry, I thought I explained that. It is linked in that you cannot play down. If you are Division 1 you can't play intermediate or junior. If you are Division 2, you can't play junior. But you can play up. You might have to or you can apply to.
So just to clarify, if in Antrim you are a Junior Club in Div3. You win the Div3 league but you do not win the Junior championship. In this case next year you are in Div2 and also in the intermediate championship?
Not entirely true, St Endas go to the all Ireland intermediate final while playing Div 1
Quote from: clarshack on November 05, 2023, 04:46:03 PMStewartstown were fortunate enough to beat Drumlane who knocked out Arva last season and Stewartstown were only in Junior due to Covid. Just can't see the Cavan champions getting caught out this year.
Will next year too see Knockbride playing in Division 1 having won the Division 2 Final and playing in the Junior Championship?
Yep they should walk Junior next year now that Arva are out of it.
The Junior clubs in Cavan will be glad to see the back of those two and things should start to level off from now on.
Quote from: Cavan19 on November 06, 2023, 08:37:33 AMQuote from: clarshack on November 05, 2023, 04:46:03 PMStewartstown were fortunate enough to beat Drumlane who knocked out Arva last season and Stewartstown were only in Junior due to Covid. Just can't see the Cavan champions getting caught out this year.
Will next year too see Knockbride playing in Division 1 having won the Division 2 Final and playing in the Junior Championship?
Yep they should walk Junior next year now that Arva are out of it.
The Junior clubs in Cavan will be glad to see the back of those two and things should start to level off from now on.
Did covid make a balls of the whole thing?
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 06, 2023, 09:23:10 AMQuote from: Cavan19 on November 06, 2023, 08:37:33 AMQuote from: clarshack on November 05, 2023, 04:46:03 PMStewartstown were fortunate enough to beat Drumlane who knocked out Arva last season and Stewartstown were only in Junior due to Covid. Just can't see the Cavan champions getting caught out this year.
Will next year too see Knockbride playing in Division 1 having won the Division 2 Final and playing in the Junior Championship?
Yep they should walk Junior next year now that Arva are out of it.
The Junior clubs in Cavan will be glad to see the back of those two and things should start to level off from now on.
Did covid make a balls of the whole thing?
It had nothing to do with Covid.
They relegated two teams back a few years ago to even up the grades and do away with bye rounds. The last few years there have been at least two very strong teams in the Junior Championship. Drumlane won it last year and got to the Ulster final but would not have been a team many would have picked to get out of Cavan. Knockbride have been trying to get out of Junior a good few years but are not producing come the business end of the championship. They got promoted to Division 1 this year but were playing Division 3 league last year.
Arva lost a lot of players who went travelling and Ciaran Brady had a bad injury and they went from Senior to Junior. All the players are back now and a lot of those lads are at their peak now as well. They are a serious outfit and will be one of the favorites for intermediate next year in Cavan.
All the Junior clubs in Cavan will want Knockbride to win it next year as it will open it up and the real Junior clubs will have a chance of winning it from then on.
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 08:10:15 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 07:58:27 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 07:57:05 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 05, 2023, 07:47:07 PMAntrim linked (though you can apply to play up, you can't play down)
Armagh linked
Tyrone linked
So let me get this right. I those counties if you win intermediate you are automatically promoted to senior and to Div1?
If you win Div2 league you automatically get promoted to the senior Championship too?
Of course
Ok but then how do you keep equal teams in your league and championship? Isn't it possible 2 teams could go up to senior every year (intermediate champions and Div2 winners). Do 2 teams get related then when that happens?
In Tyrone it is similar to Armagh with 2 up and 2 down but we also have play-off's (involving the next 4) for a potential 3rd team to go up/down.
In theory we could have 6 teams in and out of Intermediate each year. This keeps our leagues competitive.
The same Cavan who put school amalgamations into Ulster colleges, all they're looking is the same easy road to a few wins same as their Kerry counterparts with misaligned competitions and grades
One for the wtf thread ... why was that Kerry amalgamation bs on TG4 yesterday, club champ live broadcasting should be reserved for real club teams, not divisional fakery
Quote from: tiempo on November 06, 2023, 10:02:09 AMThe same Cavan who put school amalgamations into Ulster colleges, all they're looking is the same easy road to a few wins same as their Kerry counterparts with misaligned competitions and grades
One for the wtf thread ... why was that Kerry amalgamation bs on TG4 yesterday, club champ live broadcasting should be reserved for real club teams, not divisional fakery
No problem with them being on TG4 myself, people want to see the best players playing. You're gonna get more people tuning in to watch the Cliffords than pretty much anyone else
Quote from: tiempo on November 06, 2023, 10:02:09 AMThe same Cavan who put school amalgamations into Ulster colleges, all they're looking is the same easy road to a few wins same as their Kerry counterparts with misaligned competitions and grades
One for the wtf thread ... why was that Kerry amalgamation bs on TG4 yesterday, club champ live broadcasting should be reserved for real club teams, not divisional fakery
What school amalgamation?
Quote from: mrdeeds on November 06, 2023, 10:34:01 AMQuote from: tiempo on November 06, 2023, 10:02:09 AMThe same Cavan who put school amalgamations into Ulster colleges, all they're looking is the same easy road to a few wins same as their Kerry counterparts with misaligned competitions and grades
One for the wtf thread ... why was that Kerry amalgamation bs on TG4 yesterday, club champ live broadcasting should be reserved for real club teams, not divisional fakery
What school amalgamation?
Maybe he means the Ulster Minor and U-21 Club Competitions? Pretty sure there has been Amalgamated Cavan sides playing in those. Southern Gaels?
Fossa not like Clonoe,it's a very small place, with a hotel full of Ukrainians beside them if they want expand their player base. Ballymaguigan to me would be a genuine Strong Junior team, so that hammering yesterday, you have to question their level of Opposition.I remember another team from Cavan Drumgoon,who were in the Junior championship yet in Senior football around the same time or year after it.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 06, 2023, 11:41:20 AMFossa not like Clonoe,it's a very small place, with a hotel full of Ukrainians beside them if they want expand their player base. Ballymaguigan to me would be a genuine Strong Junior team, so that hammering yesterday, you have to question their level of Opposition.I remember another team from Cavan Drumgoon,who were in the Junior championship yet in Senior football around the same time or year after it.
Yeah your right Clonoe doesn't even have an hotel lol.
Everywhere round Killarney got Hotels, that one I stayed in 4yrs bck, so dropped over to the pitch beside it, there not alot round there to be honest, with 2 big teams not 2 mile down the round. Maybe if divisional teams dudnt exist, Cliffords may have moved.
Not sure what the outrage is about Arva. They are where they are for a reason. If some counties want to link things in all manner of ways, then let them at it. In Cavan, Championship is rewarded with Championship and you move up or down by your standard in Championship not League. We simply don't reward Championship from the League. Before we did a few seasons of clubs applying to be upgraded and some clubs had a good generational team that never won a Championship that their standard deserved after they were upgraded.
The simple facts are that Arva have some good players now, but they were relegated down for reasons in prior years. They weren't good enough for Senior, weren't good enough for intermediate. They were in Junior grade, and even last year did not show enough to be the 27th best team out of 40 in Cavan. The fact that they've built up players, got some back from injury, got their act together this year and so on is not their fault. They likely are a good Cavan intermediate level team now, but failed to get up there last year. And that happens. They've gotten good very quickly which can happen, suck it up and deal with it. It'll right itself as anything will
For Counties that do not link league and championship, how do teams get relegated to a lower championship?
I can understand league positions but if 50% of your clubs get beat in the first round how do you determine which one gets replaced by the winner of the lower grade?
Division 1 teams should not be playing junior simple as
Quote from: InnocentByStander on November 06, 2023, 01:19:07 PMDivision 1 teams should not be playing junior simple as
But what if they got relegated to Junior based on Championship results? There's an obsession with League here, but facts are they weren't good enough in successive Championships, and a combination of factors with injured and returning players caused this. But it's an anomaly. This isn't the usual, just the way it fell for this particular club. They deserved to be a Junior club last 2 years and won't be next year
Quote from: LeoMc on November 06, 2023, 12:55:28 PMFor Counties that do not link league and championship, how do teams get relegated to a lower championship?
I can understand league positions but if 50% of your clubs get beat in the first round how do you determine which one gets replaced by the winner of the lower grade?
In Cavan there's relegation playoffs.
Quote from: LeoMc on November 06, 2023, 12:55:28 PMFor Counties that do not link league and championship, how do teams get relegated to a lower championship?
I can understand league positions but if 50% of your clubs get beat in the first round how do you determine which one gets replaced by the winner of the lower grade?
Relegation playoffs which happen while the quarter finals etc of that Championship are ongoing. And in 2021 Arva were poor enough to lose both they were in to go down to Junior. They won 1 out of 4 group games, then lost the relegation playoff.
Cavan has a system where each grade has a table of 12 to 14 teams, open draw where each team plays 4 games (but no repeat pairings) and then base the table off that. Top 8 into quarters (1 v 8, 2 v 7 etc) and then bottom 4 into relegation, 11th v 14th, 12th v 13th and so on. See link here:
Cavan Intermediate Championship 2021 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Cavan_Intermediate_Football_Championship)
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 06, 2023, 01:24:47 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 06, 2023, 01:19:07 PMDivision 1 teams should not be playing junior simple as
But what if they got relegated to Junior based on Championship results? There's an obsession with League here, but facts are they weren't good enough in successive Championships, and a combination of factors with injured and returning players caused this. But it's an anomaly. This isn't the usual, just the way it fell for this particular club. They deserved to be a Junior club last 2 years and won't be next year
Were they put down or relegated? There are teams in all counties where teams who arnt good enough for their championship but too strong for the one below. If a team is good enough to stay in Div 1 with senior teams it is evident they are too strong for junior and it isn't fair on proper junior teams.
Quote from: InnocentByStander on November 06, 2023, 03:16:24 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 06, 2023, 01:24:47 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 06, 2023, 01:19:07 PMDivision 1 teams should not be playing junior simple as
But what if they got relegated to Junior based on Championship results? There's an obsession with League here, but facts are they weren't good enough in successive Championships, and a combination of factors with injured and returning players caused this. But it's an anomaly. This isn't the usual, just the way it fell for this particular club. They deserved to be a Junior club last 2 years and won't be next year
Were they put down or relegated? There are teams in all counties where teams who arnt good enough for their championship but too strong for the one below. If a team is good enough to stay in Div 1 with senior teams it is evident they are too strong for junior and it isn't fair on proper junior teams.
Relegated. They lost a Senior relegation playoff in 2017, then an Intermediate one in 2021.
I agree to a point. They clearly were not good enough in 2021 when relegated to Junior. But 2 factors to consider. They would have been favourites for Junior as it was in 2022 (don't most relegated teams tend to be stronger than what is down there?) but then they got players back from injury, travelling, and some went into the county setup so they got benefit there. Like I said above, this is anomalous. A perfect storm. It meant that this year they were very strong, especially after losing the final last year and learning from that. They barely stayed up in Division 1. They are an intermediate level team based on results this year, and that's where they will be next year. But that does not mean they did not deserve to be Junior this year. Again, Championship determines Championship here
Ballymaguigan are traditionally an Intermediate club, they even own the cup used for the Intermediate championship. Either Ballymaguigan have declined over the past decade or the Derry Intermediate championship has become much more competitive. I think both things are true, the 2001 Intermediate final was Ballymaguigan v Moneymore and nowadays both clubs would be unlikely to win the intermediate. They got to the Intermediate final in 2018 but they lost a few players since then and the best player in that team transferred back to Magherafelt.
An interesting point about Ballymaguigan is that one of their best players is 43 and he is playing along side some of the children of his primary school class mates.
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 06, 2023, 01:24:47 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 06, 2023, 01:19:07 PMDivision 1 teams should not be playing junior simple as
But what if they got relegated to Junior based on Championship results? There's an obsession with League here, but facts are they weren't good enough in successive Championships, and a combination of factors with injured and returning players caused this. But it's an anomaly. This isn't the usual, just the way it fell for this particular club. They deserved to be a Junior club last 2 years and won't be next year
League form gives a better indication of a clubs ability. If it works in Cavan then fair enough but at a provincial level, any club playing Division 1 senior football should be barred from playing in the provincial Junior Championship.
I know in Armagh years ago you would have had the odd weaker division one club play intermediate championship etc but none that would have been out of place
Quote from: InnocentByStander on November 06, 2023, 03:16:24 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 06, 2023, 01:24:47 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 06, 2023, 01:19:07 PMDivision 1 teams should not be playing junior simple as
But what if they got relegated to Junior based on Championship results? There's an obsession with League here, but facts are they weren't good enough in successive Championships, and a combination of factors with injured and returning players caused this. But it's an anomaly. This isn't the usual, just the way it fell for this particular club. They deserved to be a Junior club last 2 years and won't be next year
Were they put down or relegated? There are teams in all counties where teams who arnt good enough for their championship but too strong for the one below. If a team is good enough to stay in Div 1 with senior teams it is evident they are too strong for junior and it isn't fair on proper junior teams.
Correct.
A bit of a joke that a team in Div. 1 league, play in Junior Championship.
If there're good enough to play in Div. 1, they should play in senior championship.
Imagine Kerry looking to play in Tailteann Cup.
Quote from: marty34 on November 06, 2023, 06:47:18 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 06, 2023, 03:16:24 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 06, 2023, 01:24:47 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 06, 2023, 01:19:07 PMDivision 1 teams should not be playing junior simple as
But what if they got relegated to Junior based on Championship results? There's an obsession with League here, but facts are they weren't good enough in successive Championships, and a combination of factors with injured and returning players caused this. But it's an anomaly. This isn't the usual, just the way it fell for this particular club. They deserved to be a Junior club last 2 years and won't be next year
Were they put down or relegated? There are teams in all counties where teams who arnt good enough for their championship but too strong for the one below. If a team is good enough to stay in Div 1 with senior teams it is evident they are too strong for junior and it isn't fair on proper junior teams.
Correct.
A bit of a joke that a team in Div. 1 league, play in Junior Championship.
If there're good enough to play in Div. 1, they should play in senior championship.
Imagine Kerry looking to play in Tailteann Cup.
That's not how it works in Cavan. You earn or lose your championship status through championship football. League has nothing to do with it. They wouldn't be near Senior Championship level, couldn't win the Junior Championship last year.
Arva won a relegation playoff to stay in Div 1. They're a small club whose tradition would be Junior and Intermediate football, currently working off golden generation.
Quote from: general_lee on November 06, 2023, 04:37:14 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 06, 2023, 01:24:47 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 06, 2023, 01:19:07 PMDivision 1 teams should not be playing junior simple as
But what if they got relegated to Junior based on Championship results? There's an obsession with League here, but facts are they weren't good enough in successive Championships, and a combination of factors with injured and returning players caused this. But it's an anomaly. This isn't the usual, just the way it fell for this particular club. They deserved to be a Junior club last 2 years and won't be next year
League form gives a better indication of a clubs ability. If it works in Cavan then fair enough but at a provincial level, any club playing Division 1 senior football should be barred from playing in the provincial Junior Championship.
Does it? I mean, like their Championship form has been a better indication. They got relegated from Intermediate in 2021 winning 1 game from 5, and failed to get out of Junior last year. But you'd have them in Senior? So you'd have them whipping boys of Senior, possibly demoralising a small club, and denying the the Junior title their level deserved? Yous have this all wrong. They're not good enough for Senior as they've shown. They might give Intermediate a rattle next year, but surviving in Division 1 on a playoff is hardly an indicator of Championship ability here.
We see what way Ballinderry cut it next year playing Senior football and Intermediate championship, I think they badly lopside many a team next year, young team or not.
If they playing Division 1 league they should be a Division 1 team, Ballymaguigan is a Junior team playing Div 3 Football, what about teams at their level not getting a fair craic at it, there 2 entire leagues above them football wise,
I don't see what the outrage is regarding the Cavan junior champions being in division 1. League and championship shouldn't be linked as far I'm concerned.
Armagh this year is the perfect example of why they shouldn't be linked.
Look at the Armagh senior championship this year - 16 teams entering into a group stage, seeded based on league positions. So a small club like Shane O'Neills are missing their 3 county players for 90% of their league games, come bottom of division 1b and get punished by a being a bottom seed in the senior championship.
Cullyhanna are another example of the problems caused by linking both - they get relegated in the league in 2022 as they have 3 or 4 players away with the county team. As a result they also move down championship and walk to an intermediate championship in 2023. The Cavan system seems to be much fairer than this.
Pomeroy v Cullyhanna should be a serious game on Saturday evening - there's every chance this is the 2 strongest teams meeting in the 1st round. Could be wrong of course but on paper I'd say that's the case.
Pomeroy maybe stronger all around 15 but Cullyhanna are very capable as they've shown, and have some star power.
Would Killanny or Ballyhaise be up to much? I'd already be expecting a Monaghan Cavan junior final for reasons stated above. Maybe Fintona to upset Blackhill but they seem to have good pedigree at the level.
Quote from: ClubScene13 on November 07, 2023, 12:32:22 PMPomeroy v Cullyhanna should be a serious game on Saturday evening - there's every chance this is the 2 strongest teams meeting in the 1st round. Could be wrong of course but on paper I'd say that's the case.
Pomeroy maybe stronger all around 15 but Cullyhanna are very capable as they've shown, and have some star power.
Would Killanny or Ballyhaise be up to much? I'd already be expecting a Monaghan Cavan junior final for reasons stated above. Maybe Fintona to upset Blackhill but they seem to have good pedigree at the level.
Ballyhaise would be a big strong team with some very good footballers but whether they can do it in Ulster is another thing they got over the line handy enough in Cavan this year.
Quote from: ranch on November 07, 2023, 12:14:49 PMI don't see what the outrage is regarding the Cavan junior champions being in division 1. League and championship shouldn't be linked as far I'm concerned.
Armagh this year is the perfect example of why they shouldn't be linked.
Look at the Armagh senior championship this year - 16 teams entering into a group stage, seeded based on league positions. So a small club like Shane O'Neills are missing their 3 county players for 90% of their league games, come bottom of division 1b and get punished by a being a bottom seed in the senior championship.
Cullyhanna are another example of the problems caused by linking both - they get relegated in the league in 2022 as they have 3 or 4 players away with the county team. As a result they also move down championship and walk to an intermediate championship in 2023. The Cavan system seems to be much fairer than this.
Read that back to yourself a couple of times
I may have missed the explanation for this but did Glenullin not won the intermediate championship in Derry last year?
No promotion re championship in Derry this year. Ballymaguigan and Glenullin back to back winners
Quote from: DuffleKing on November 07, 2023, 01:23:52 PMI may have missed the explanation for this but did Glenullin not won the intermediate championship in Derry last year?
Yes they did. Always thought that if you were to win your own counties IFC or JFC 2 or more years in a row that you didn't get to play after the first year in the provincial series. I suppose nobody is really getting upset about Glenullin because they were stuffed in the first round last year. There'd probably be more outrage if they had went further in Ulster last year and then stayed down to try and win it this year.
Quote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 01:30:31 PMNo promotion re championship in Derry this year. Ballymaguigan and Glenullin back to back winners
Its in the official guide that you are automatically promoted via Champ win and if that isn't the case in Derry its a) f**king embarrassing and b) against the rule, but mainly (a). Major red flag that a club has no ambition if they accept another year at the lower level
Quote from: tiempo on November 07, 2023, 02:39:28 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 01:30:31 PMNo promotion re championship in Derry this year. Ballymaguigan and Glenullin back to back winners
Its in the official guide that you are automatically promoted via Champ win and if that isn't the case in Derry its a) f**king embarrassing and b) against the rule, but mainly (a). Major red flag that a club has no ambition if they accept another year at the lower level
Did you not see the celebrations after the final whistle?. You'd have had thought it was their first championship title in decades. Embarrasing stuff.
In Derry it was 2 up 2 down for as many years as I remember, then pulled the stunt of the 2nd place team play the 2nd lower above in a play off, Derry Championship never dictated going up and tha be the same in many a county, handbook or not.
Quote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 01:30:31 PMNo promotion re championship in Derry this year. Ballymaguigan and Glenullin back to back winners
Craigbane won Derry Junior last year?
Quote from: tiempo on November 07, 2023, 02:39:28 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 01:30:31 PMNo promotion re championship in Derry this year. Ballymaguigan and Glenullin back to back winners
Its in the official guide that you are automatically promoted via Champ win and if that isn't the case in Derry its a) f**king embarrassing and b) against the rule, but mainly (a). Major red flag that a club has no ambition if they accept another year at the lower level
Neither two of these teams won their championships easy, Glenullin went to ET in both SF and final and should have lost the final so it was no walk in the park for them, they also played in Div 2 so they are a true Intermediate side. Guigan also did not win their championship handy coming through a tough SF with Bellerin and also played in Div 3. Dont see a problem with teams staying in same division and especially in this case as both teams would be whipping boys if they went up.
There is however a major problem with a club playing and staying in div 1 playing senior teams all year and then dropping down 2 grades to walk their own county and more than likely to an ulster title. Not far on these teams in Div 3 dead rubber year for them.
Quote from: clarshack on November 07, 2023, 02:59:11 PMQuote from: tiempo on November 07, 2023, 02:39:28 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 01:30:31 PMNo promotion re championship in Derry this year. Ballymaguigan and Glenullin back to back winners
Its in the official guide that you are automatically promoted via Champ win and if that isn't the case in Derry its a) f**king embarrassing and b) against the rule, but mainly (a). Major red flag that a club has no ambition if they accept another year at the lower level
Did you not see the celebrations after the final whistle?. You'd have had thought it was their first championship title in decades. Embarrasing stuff.
One of the worst posts I have ever read. Fellas train all year for one reason to win their championship god forbid they celebrate. Also they were underdogs for the final and scored a last minute goal just to get to ET.
So the embarssing stuff here is your post for trying to out a team for winning a championship
Quote from: clarshack on November 07, 2023, 03:01:58 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 01:30:31 PMNo promotion re championship in Derry this year. Ballymaguigan and Glenullin back to back winners
Craigbane won Derry Junior last year?
Sorry, yes. Ballymaguigan beaten finalists
Quote from: InnocentByStander on November 07, 2023, 03:07:36 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 07, 2023, 02:59:11 PMQuote from: tiempo on November 07, 2023, 02:39:28 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 01:30:31 PMNo promotion re championship in Derry this year. Ballymaguigan and Glenullin back to back winners
Its in the official guide that you are automatically promoted via Champ win and if that isn't the case in Derry its a) f**king embarrassing and b) against the rule, but mainly (a). Major red flag that a club has no ambition if they accept another year at the lower level
Did you not see the celebrations after the final whistle?. You'd have had thought it was their first championship title in decades. Embarrasing stuff.
One of the worst posts I have ever read. Fellas train all year for one reason to win their championship god forbid they celebrate. Also they were underdogs for the final and scored a last minute goal just to get to ET.
So the embarssing stuff here is your post for trying to out a team for winning a championship
Agreed...ridiculous post
Quote from: InnocentByStander on November 07, 2023, 03:07:36 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 07, 2023, 02:59:11 PMQuote from: tiempo on November 07, 2023, 02:39:28 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 01:30:31 PMNo promotion re championship in Derry this year. Ballymaguigan and Glenullin back to back winners
Its in the official guide that you are automatically promoted via Champ win and if that isn't the case in Derry its a) f**king embarrassing and b) against the rule, but mainly (a). Major red flag that a club has no ambition if they accept another year at the lower level
Did you not see the celebrations after the final whistle?. You'd have had thought it was their first championship title in decades. Embarrasing stuff.
One of the worst posts I have ever read. Fellas train all year for one reason to win their championship god forbid they celebrate. Also they were underdogs for the final and scored a last minute goal just to get to ET.
So the embarssing stuff here is your post for trying to out a team for winning a championship
Sorry but the celebrations were way OTT having won it last season and not moving up to Senior. Are they moving up to Senior next year?
Quote from: clarshack on November 07, 2023, 03:13:29 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 07, 2023, 03:07:36 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 07, 2023, 02:59:11 PMQuote from: tiempo on November 07, 2023, 02:39:28 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 01:30:31 PMNo promotion re championship in Derry this year. Ballymaguigan and Glenullin back to back winners
Its in the official guide that you are automatically promoted via Champ win and if that isn't the case in Derry its a) f**king embarrassing and b) against the rule, but mainly (a). Major red flag that a club has no ambition if they accept another year at the lower level
Did you not see the celebrations after the final whistle?. You'd have had thought it was their first championship title in decades. Embarrasing stuff.
One of the worst posts I have ever read. Fellas train all year for one reason to win their championship god forbid they celebrate. Also they were underdogs for the final and scored a last minute goal just to get to ET.
So the embarssing stuff here is your post for trying to out a team for winning a championship
Sorry but the celebrations were way OTT having won it last season and not moving up to Senior. Are they moving up to Senior next year?
You must have some championship CV
Ill just assume you come from a c
Quote from: clarshack on November 07, 2023, 03:13:29 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 07, 2023, 03:07:36 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 07, 2023, 02:59:11 PMQuote from: tiempo on November 07, 2023, 02:39:28 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 01:30:31 PMNo promotion re championship in Derry this year. Ballymaguigan and Glenullin back to back winners
Its in the official guide that you are automatically promoted via Champ win and if that isn't the case in Derry its a) f**king embarrassing and b) against the rule, but mainly (a). Major red flag that a club has no ambition if they accept another year at the lower level
Did you not see the celebrations after the final whistle?. You'd have had thought it was their first championship title in decades. Embarrasing stuff.
One of the worst posts I have ever read. Fellas train all year for one reason to win their championship god forbid they celebrate. Also they were underdogs for the final and scored a last minute goal just to get to ET.
So the embarssing stuff here is your post for trying to out a team for winning a championship
Sorry but the celebrations were way OTT having won it last season and not moving up to Senior. Are they moving up to Senior next year?
Ill assume you come from a club that doesn't win much, my club has won alot of senior titles as of late and every titles is as special as the last. No Why would they have to? they arnt senior standard.
Quote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 03:16:15 PMYou must have some championship CV
No just not used to teams not moving up a level when they should. I guess we do things different in Tyrone ;D
Quote from: InnocentByStander on November 07, 2023, 03:19:59 PMIll assume you come from a club that doesn't win much, my club has won alot of senior titles as of late and every titles is as special as the last. No Why would they have to? they arnt senior standard.
Completely different scenario in winning consecutive Senior titles to Intermediate/Junior ffs. So the Derry Intermediate Champions should never go up then as they won't be senior standard?
Quote from: InnocentByStander on November 07, 2023, 03:19:59 PMIll just assume you come from a c
Quote from: clarshack on November 07, 2023, 03:13:29 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 07, 2023, 03:07:36 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 07, 2023, 02:59:11 PMQuote from: tiempo on November 07, 2023, 02:39:28 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 01:30:31 PMNo promotion re championship in Derry this year. Ballymaguigan and Glenullin back to back winners
Its in the official guide that you are automatically promoted via Champ win and if that isn't the case in Derry its a) f**king embarrassing and b) against the rule, but mainly (a). Major red flag that a club has no ambition if they accept another year at the lower level
Did you not see the celebrations after the final whistle?. You'd have had thought it was their first championship title in decades. Embarrasing stuff.
One of the worst posts I have ever read. Fellas train all year for one reason to win their championship god forbid they celebrate. Also they were underdogs for the final and scored a last minute goal just to get to ET.
So the embarssing stuff here is your post for trying to out a team for winning a championship
Sorry but the celebrations were way OTT having won it last season and not moving up to Senior. Are they moving up to Senior next year?
Ill assume you come from a club that doesn't win much, my club has won alot of senior titles as of late and every titles is as special as the last. No Why would they have to? they arnt senior standard.
Hang on. If you win an intermediate you should be moving up. Anything else is absolutely daft.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 07, 2023, 03:37:34 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 07, 2023, 03:19:59 PMIll just assume you come from a c
Quote from: clarshack on November 07, 2023, 03:13:29 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 07, 2023, 03:07:36 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 07, 2023, 02:59:11 PMQuote from: tiempo on November 07, 2023, 02:39:28 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 01:30:31 PMNo promotion re championship in Derry this year. Ballymaguigan and Glenullin back to back winners
Its in the official guide that you are automatically promoted via Champ win and if that isn't the case in Derry its a) f**king embarrassing and b) against the rule, but mainly (a). Major red flag that a club has no ambition if they accept another year at the lower level
Did you not see the celebrations after the final whistle?. You'd have had thought it was their first championship title in decades. Embarrasing stuff.
One of the worst posts I have ever read. Fellas train all year for one reason to win their championship god forbid they celebrate. Also they were underdogs for the final and scored a last minute goal just to get to ET.
So the embarssing stuff here is your post for trying to out a team for winning a championship
Sorry but the celebrations were way OTT having won it last season and not moving up to Senior. Are they moving up to Senior next year?
Ill assume you come from a club that doesn't win much, my club has won alot of senior titles as of late and every titles is as special as the last. No Why would they have to? they arnt senior standard.
Hang on. If you win an intermediate you should be moving up. Anything else is absolutely daft.
[/qQuote from: clarshack on November 07, 2023, 03:21:19 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 03:16:15 PMYou must have some championship CV
No just not used to teams not moving up a level when they should. I guess we do things different in Tyrone ;D
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 07, 2023, 03:37:34 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 07, 2023, 03:19:59 PMIll just assume you come from a c
Quote from: clarshack on November 07, 2023, 03:13:29 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 07, 2023, 03:07:36 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 07, 2023, 02:59:11 PMQuote from: tiempo on November 07, 2023, 02:39:28 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 01:30:31 PMNo promotion re championship in Derry this year. Ballymaguigan and Glenullin back to back winners
Its in the official guide that you are automatically promoted via Champ win and if that isn't the case in Derry its a) f**king embarrassing and b) against the rule, but mainly (a). Major red flag that a club has no ambition if they accept another year at the lower level
Did you not see the celebrations after the final whistle?. You'd have had thought it was their first championship title in decades. Embarrasing stuff.
One of the worst posts I have ever read. Fellas train all year for one reason to win their championship god forbid they celebrate. Also they were underdogs for the final and scored a last minute goal just to get to ET.
So the embarssing stuff here is your post for trying to out a team for winning a championship
Sorry but the celebrations were way OTT having won it last season and not moving up to Senior. Are they moving up to Senior next year?
Ill assume you come from a club that doesn't win much, my club has won alot of senior titles as of late and every titles is as special as the last. No Why would they have to? they arnt senior standard.
Hang on. If you win an intermediate you should be moving up. Anything else is absolutely daft.
I take back my statement teams should be moving up even if they arnt at the standard. Although i don't think there was much of a mention of it because they weren't really expected to win it this year or even last year.
Quote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 01:13:55 PMQuote from: ranch on November 07, 2023, 12:14:49 PMI don't see what the outrage is regarding the Cavan junior champions being in division 1. League and championship shouldn't be linked as far I'm concerned.
Armagh this year is the perfect example of why they shouldn't be linked.
Look at the Armagh senior championship this year - 16 teams entering into a group stage, seeded based on league positions. So a small club like Shane O'Neills are missing their 3 county players for 90% of their league games, come bottom of division 1b and get punished by a being a bottom seed in the senior championship.
Cullyhanna are another example of the problems caused by linking both - they get relegated in the league in 2022 as they have 3 or 4 players away with the county team. As a result they also move down championship and walk to an intermediate championship in 2023. The Cavan system seems to be much fairer than this.
Read that back to yourself a couple of times
And survived with 2 wins out of 12, bottom of the table, and won a relegation playoff with an ambush. They're simply not a Senior level club.
The fact they got relegated from intermediate in 2021 and lost the Junior final last year tells you all as to their actual level at Championship time when all have county players back. Read that back to yourself too
Derry are in the middle of a league and championship restructure that will take a couple of years to work itself out.
Moving from a 14 team senior and intermediate championship to 12 senior and intermediate championship and breaking the link from league and championship.
2 teams being relegated from grade above with no promotion this year. From 2024, it will be 1 up and 1 down. Glenullin are staying intermediate next year but are being joined by Ballinderry and Coleraine.
They were hoping to get it done last year but clubs objected when they realised they were in relegation bother.
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 07, 2023, 04:07:15 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 01:13:55 PMQuote from: ranch on November 07, 2023, 12:14:49 PMI don't see what the outrage is regarding the Cavan junior champions being in division 1. League and championship shouldn't be linked as far I'm concerned.
Armagh this year is the perfect example of why they shouldn't be linked.
Look at the Armagh senior championship this year - 16 teams entering into a group stage, seeded based on league positions. So a small club like Shane O'Neills are missing their 3 county players for 90% of their league games, come bottom of division 1b and get punished by a being a bottom seed in the senior championship.
Cullyhanna are another example of the problems caused by linking both - they get relegated in the league in 2022 as they have 3 or 4 players away with the county team. As a result they also move down championship and walk to an intermediate championship in 2023. The Cavan system seems to be much fairer than this.
Read that back to yourself a couple of times
And survived with 2 wins out of 12, bottom of the table, and won a relegation playoff with an ambush. They're simply not a Senior level club.
The fact they got relegated from intermediate in 2021 and lost the Junior final last year tells you all as to their actual level at Championship time when all have county players back. Read that back to yourself too
Those words will be comforting to the Cavan junior clubs and Ballymaguigan so far.
Quote from: InnocentByStander on November 07, 2023, 04:02:58 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 07, 2023, 03:37:34 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 07, 2023, 03:19:59 PMIll just assume you come from a c
Quote from: clarshack on November 07, 2023, 03:13:29 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 07, 2023, 03:07:36 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 07, 2023, 02:59:11 PMQuote from: tiempo on November 07, 2023, 02:39:28 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 01:30:31 PMNo promotion re championship in Derry this year. Ballymaguigan and Glenullin back to back winners
Its in the official guide that you are automatically promoted via Champ win and if that isn't the case in Derry its a) f**king embarrassing and b) against the rule, but mainly (a). Major red flag that a club has no ambition if they accept another year at the lower level
Did you not see the celebrations after the final whistle?. You'd have had thought it was their first championship title in decades. Embarrasing stuff.
One of the worst posts I have ever read. Fellas train all year for one reason to win their championship god forbid they celebrate. Also they were underdogs for the final and scored a last minute goal just to get to ET.
So the embarssing stuff here is your post for trying to out a team for winning a championship
Sorry but the celebrations were way OTT having won it last season and not moving up to Senior. Are they moving up to Senior next year?
Ill assume you come from a club that doesn't win much, my club has won alot of senior titles as of late and every titles is as special as the last. No Why would they have to? they arnt senior standard.
Hang on. If you win an intermediate you should be moving up. Anything else is absolutely daft.
[/qQuote from: clarshack on November 07, 2023, 03:21:19 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 03:16:15 PMYou must have some championship CV
No just not used to teams not moving up a level when they should. I guess we do things different in Tyrone ;D
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 07, 2023, 03:37:34 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 07, 2023, 03:19:59 PMIll just assume you come from a c
Quote from: clarshack on November 07, 2023, 03:13:29 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 07, 2023, 03:07:36 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 07, 2023, 02:59:11 PMQuote from: tiempo on November 07, 2023, 02:39:28 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 01:30:31 PMNo promotion re championship in Derry this year. Ballymaguigan and Glenullin back to back winners
Its in the official guide that you are automatically promoted via Champ win and if that isn't the case in Derry its a) f**king embarrassing and b) against the rule, but mainly (a). Major red flag that a club has no ambition if they accept another year at the lower level
Did you not see the celebrations after the final whistle?. You'd have had thought it was their first championship title in decades. Embarrasing stuff.
One of the worst posts I have ever read. Fellas train all year for one reason to win their championship god forbid they celebrate. Also they were underdogs for the final and scored a last minute goal just to get to ET.
So the embarssing stuff here is your post for trying to out a team for winning a championship
Sorry but the celebrations were way OTT having won it last season and not moving up to Senior. Are they moving up to Senior next year?
Ill assume you come from a club that doesn't win much, my club has won alot of senior titles as of late and every titles is as special as the last. No Why would they have to? they arnt senior standard.
Hang on. If you win an intermediate you should be moving up. Anything else is absolutely daft.
I take back my statement teams should be moving up even if they arnt at the standard. Although i don't think there was much of a mention of it because they weren't really expected to win it this year or even last year.
If you win the lower level championship one year then surely you're at the standard to give the higher level a rattle the next year. If you win it 2 years in a row then you certainly should be moving up. Jesus some backward backward counties out there.
Quote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 03:08:34 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 07, 2023, 03:01:58 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 01:30:31 PMNo promotion re championship in Derry this year. Ballymaguigan and Glenullin back to back winners
Craigbane won Derry Junior last year?
Sorry, yes. Ballymaguigan beaten finalists
*Semi-finalists
Quote from: oakleaflad on November 07, 2023, 06:19:07 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 03:08:34 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 07, 2023, 03:01:58 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 01:30:31 PMNo promotion re championship in Derry this year. Ballymaguigan and Glenullin back to back winners
Craigbane won Derry Junior last year?
Sorry, yes. Ballymaguigan beaten finalists
*Semi-finalists
Indeed! Final in all but name ;)
Quote from: ranch on November 07, 2023, 12:14:49 PMI don't see what the outrage is regarding the Cavan junior champions being in division 1. League and championship shouldn't be linked as far I'm concerned.
Armagh this year is the perfect example of why they shouldn't be linked.
Look at the Armagh senior championship this year - 16 teams entering into a group stage, seeded based on league positions. So a small club like Shane O'Neills are missing their 3 county players for 90% of their league games, come bottom of division 1b and get punished by a being a bottom seed in the senior championship.
Cullyhanna are another example of the problems caused by linking both - they get relegated in the league in 2022 as they have 3 or 4 players away with the county team. As a result they also move down championship and walk to an intermediate championship in 2023. The Cavan system seems to be much fairer than this.
WTF are you on about?
How were Shane's being punished?
They won Intermediate league & championship double last year ffs! Why wouldn't they be fit to give senior a rattle?
They didn't exactly disgrace themselves either - pretty sure they beat this years senior finalists in the league and and were only beaten by the semi finalists by a point in the groups. They'll be one of the favourites for the Intermediate title in 2024.
Quote from: general_lee on November 07, 2023, 07:27:44 PMQuote from: ranch on November 07, 2023, 12:14:49 PMI don't see what the outrage is regarding the Cavan junior champions being in division 1. League and championship shouldn't be linked as far I'm concerned.
Armagh this year is the perfect example of why they shouldn't be linked.
Look at the Armagh senior championship this year - 16 teams entering into a group stage, seeded based on league positions. So a small club like Shane O'Neills are missing their 3 county players for 90% of their league games, come bottom of division 1b and get punished by a being a bottom seed in the senior championship.
Cullyhanna are another example of the problems caused by linking both - they get relegated in the league in 2022 as they have 3 or 4 players away with the county team. As a result they also move down championship and walk to an intermediate championship in 2023. The Cavan system seems to be much fairer than this.
WTF are you on about?
How were Shane's being punished?
They won Intermediate league & championship double last year ffs! Why wouldn't they be fit to give senior a rattle?
They didn't exactly disgrace themselves either - pretty sure they beat this years senior finalists in the league and and were only beaten by the semi finalists by a point in the groups. They'll be one of the favourites for the Intermediate title in 2024.
They won the league at a canter (mainly without county men) and were full value for their championship win although they got the rub of the green in the final. They'd been knocking at the door for a few years and were ready to go up.
A combination of losing county men for the league; retirements and lads going travelling meant they went down this year. Any normal sport if you win the lower level competition you enter the next level the following year. Not sure why thats such an alien concept
Quote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 04:14:03 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 07, 2023, 04:07:15 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 01:13:55 PMQuote from: ranch on November 07, 2023, 12:14:49 PMI don't see what the outrage is regarding the Cavan junior champions being in division 1. League and championship shouldn't be linked as far I'm concerned.
Armagh this year is the perfect example of why they shouldn't be linked.
Look at the Armagh senior championship this year - 16 teams entering into a group stage, seeded based on league positions. So a small club like Shane O'Neills are missing their 3 county players for 90% of their league games, come bottom of division 1b and get punished by a being a bottom seed in the senior championship.
Cullyhanna are another example of the problems caused by linking both - they get relegated in the league in 2022 as they have 3 or 4 players away with the county team. As a result they also move down championship and walk to an intermediate championship in 2023. The Cavan system seems to be much fairer than this.
Read that back to yourself a couple of times
And survived with 2 wins out of 12, bottom of the table, and won a relegation playoff with an ambush. They're simply not a Senior level club.
The fact they got relegated from intermediate in 2021 and lost the Junior final last year tells you all as to their actual level at Championship time when all have county players back. Read that back to yourself too
Those words will be comforting to the Cavan junior clubs and Ballymaguigan so far.
Literally a Junior club until they won the final pal, don't know what you want me to say. Some anomalous circumstances, sure, but Junior regardless. The team who beat them in the Junior final last year lost in Ulster...
Here Derry used to be 16 league team set up for both Senior and Intermediate. Teams wanted to be at that level, sure in Derry teams fought in the boardroom to stay up, when they should been put down. Been some craic telling them you can play senior league but enter Junior championship. The clubs simply wouldn't do it.
Quote from: tiempo on November 07, 2023, 02:39:28 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 07, 2023, 01:30:31 PMNo promotion re championship in Derry this year. Ballymaguigan and Glenullin back to back winners
Its in the official guide that you are automatically promoted via Champ win and if that isn't the case in Derry its a) f**king embarrassing and b) against the rule, but mainly (a). Major red flag that a club has no ambition if they accept another year at the lower level
If memory serves me, glenullin first dropped to div 2 in the mid 2010's and in what was a first for Derry football, demanded to retain senior championship status when they would probably have had an excellent chance of progessing through Ulster and maybe beyond at intermediate level.
Quote from: Jimmy on November 07, 2023, 04:08:37 PMDerry are in the middle of a league and championship restructure that will take a couple of years to work itself out.
Moving from a 14 team senior and intermediate championship to 12 senior and intermediate championship and breaking the link from league and championship.
2 teams being relegated from grade above with no promotion this year. From 2024, it will be 1 up and 1 down. Glenullin are staying intermediate next year but are being joined by Ballinderry and Coleraine.
They were hoping to get it done last year but clubs objected when they realised they were in relegation bother.
What's the rationale behind these changes Jimmy?
Are we going the cavan route, league has no bearing on championship?
My ideal would have been keep it at 16 each and enforce the link between championship and league. 2 teams up and down each year, 1 team via league, 1 team via championship.
They still had the 2 Bradleys, G O'Kane, B Mullan, at that stage, would been very strong for that level but again weren't strong enough to win the senior championship.
Quote from: onefineday on November 08, 2023, 01:20:47 AMQuote from: Jimmy on November 07, 2023, 04:08:37 PMDerry are in the middle of a league and championship restructure that will take a couple of years to work itself out.
Moving from a 14 team senior and intermediate championship to 12 senior and intermediate championship and breaking the link from league and championship.
2 teams being relegated from grade above with no promotion this year. From 2024, it will be 1 up and 1 down. Glenullin are staying intermediate next year but are being joined by Ballinderry and Coleraine.
They were hoping to get it done last year but clubs objected when they realised they were in relegation bother.
What's the rationale behind these changes Jimmy?
Are we going the cavan route, league has no bearing on championship?
My ideal would have been keep it at 16 each and enforce the link between championship and league. 2 teams up and down each year, 1 team via league, 1 team via championship.
Couple of things came into to play but ultimately the main goal was to raise standards in intermediate and junior football. In a 16 team league you have a few going for 1st spot and 3/4 teams trying to avoid relegation and a lot in the middle just playing out games. Whereas a 12 team league would have more games with teams trying to win a league or avoid relegation.
You also have teams 13/14/15/16 along with the top 3/4 teams in old division 2 should make a fairly competitive league. In the old 16 team system when it came to championship, realistically teams 13/14/15/16 were never a factor, unless they happened to draw one another. I don't think the goal was to get better teams in the provincial intermediate and junior competitions, but is undoubtedly a by-product of the changes.
The split season also complicated matters. Even if Derry have an awful year, in the new system they will still be playing in June and clubs are unlikely to have access to county players. County players played no league games at all this year. Add in county under 20 and hurling, that's 4 panels of players that weren't available to clubs at a stage.
Senior hurlers got to Christy Ring final which was in June, under 20 footballers got to ulster final in May I think, and under 20 hurlers won the all Ireland B competition. All teams that have to be catered for and players that were unavailable to clubs in early part of year. It was no coincidence that bottom 5 clubs in early stages of league were all dual clubs at a stage. So I think breaking the link between league and championship is a fair enough move.
There was also time factor. Getting to 12 team division 1 and 2 had been on the cards for a while and it's quicker to run off a 12 team league rather than a 16 team league. But then changes to inter county season meant the expansion of group based championships so probably not that big a factor now.
Is Ballinderry definitely intermediate grade next season?
My point about Shane's being punished this year isn't that they're in the senior championship. It's that they miss their county players throughout the league, but come championship time they're punished by being seeded based on league position. It's ridiculous.
Down, who people like to claim have the fairest system, have also moved away from linking league and championship and are now using relegation playoffs for championship too. Bosco for example were in intermediate but also div 4 this year, whereas Drumaness were div 3 but won the junior.
Quote from: Truth hurts on November 08, 2023, 09:53:50 AMIs Ballinderry definitely intermediate grade next season?
Ballinderry will be intermediate championship and division 1 league next year assuming all league changes stay in place.
Championship should absolutely be linked to leagues. if you're div 1 league you're playing against better teams and therefore your team are used to playing at a higher standard than those playing in the divisions below, I honestly cant understand how anyone can say a div 1 team are a Junior club
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 08, 2023, 01:12:55 AMHere Derry used to be 16 league team set up for both Senior and Intermediate. Teams wanted to be at that level, sure in Derry teams fought in the boardroom to stay up, when they should been put down. Been some craic telling them you can play senior league but enter Junior championship. The clubs simply wouldn't do it.
And your proud of this? What's went on in Derry the last 2 or 3 years has been shambolic. Genuinely laughable. A complete and utter mess. Glenullin going for 3 in a row intermediate next year would that be correct?
Quote from: ranch on November 08, 2023, 09:59:44 AMMy point about Shane's being punished this year isn't that they're in the senior championship. It's that they miss their county players throughout the league, but come championship time they're punished by being seeded based on league position. It's ridiculous.
Down, who people like to claim have the fairest system, have also moved away from linking league and championship and are now using relegation playoffs for championship too. Bosco for example were in intermediate but also div 4 this year, whereas Drumaness were div 3 but won the junior.
I had understood the point you were making Ranch and it is an entirely fair point. A lot of leagues across the country are played without county players, or at least at various stages of the year. Meanwhile Championships will virtually always have teams at their strongest, now which seems more logical to base gradings on? The weaker league teams or the stronger Championship?
It's obviously not as simple as that, but most of you are allowing the rare confluence of events that led Arva to be a Div 1 team and at Junior Championship level to base your opinions off. However if we were to thoroughly examine Championships based off leagues, would we find certain clubs with no (or few) county players who are arguably playing at a Championship grade beyond them?
In Fermanagh we have a similar system to Cavan and this rare event has never occurred. However a team who one year is not good enough to win the Junior Championship within their own County is then deemed to be too strong for the Provincial Championship one year later? Bear in mind that the team that won that Championship (Drumlane) didn't even win the Provincial Championship. It wasn't an issue last year but now once they have improved as a team, it is a problem. Maybe they shouldn't be allowed to play their returning players from emigration or lads back from injuries which will have them back at the level people seemingly want for the grade ::). No grading system will be perfect and on rare occasions teams will end up being very strong at their grade, or very weak, which will be more down to the personal circumstances of the team than whether it is Championship or League based relegation/promotion.
When you strip it all back, the All Ireland Intermediate and Junior competitions aren't really fit for purpose. The sentiment at the time of their creation was in the right spirit. But when you look at it, both competitions operate on a skewed playing field. There are huge disparities in how counties run their internal competitions.
Quote from: DownFanatic on November 08, 2023, 11:02:19 AMWhen you strip it all back, the All Ireland Intermediate and Junior competitions aren't really fit for purpose. The sentiment at the time of their creation was in the right spirit. But when you look at it, both competitions operate on a skewed playing field. There are huge disparities in how counties run their internal competitions.
There's no doubt it is a skewed playing field, but I'm not even sure if everyone applied the same rules across the board would the playing field really level out at Provincial level given the disparity in the number of clubs between each county. It would nearly need an individual directive within each county, is that realistic? I don't think it is, but there should be some attempt to reduce the anomalies that can occur.
I still believe they are both good competitions even if they can be skewed at times.
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on November 08, 2023, 10:20:03 AMChampionship should absolutely be linked to leagues. if you're div 1 league you're playing against better teams and therefore your team are used to playing at a higher standard than those playing in the divisions below, I honestly cant understand how anyone can say a div 1 team are a Junior club
But equally can't see how playing in a League that is set to run without county players etc. means a team who managed to reach Division 1 and barely held on means they'll be good enough for Senior. Especially when their Championship results over last 8 years show they deserved to be a Junior team.
Is it hard to understand that a diluted League with no County men might not be the best judge of a team?
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 08, 2023, 12:46:24 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on November 08, 2023, 10:20:03 AMChampionship should absolutely be linked to leagues. if you're div 1 league you're playing against better teams and therefore your team are used to playing at a higher standard than those playing in the divisions below, I honestly cant understand how anyone can say a div 1 team are a Junior club
But equally can't see how playing in a League that is set to run without county players etc. means a team who managed to reach Division 1 and barely held on means they'll be good enough for Senior. Especially when their Championship results over last 8 years show they deserved to be a Junior team.
Is it hard to understand that a diluted League with no County men might not be the best judge of a team?
They stayed in Div 1 mainly wihtout their county men so surely they are stronger with them?
Quote from: InnocentByStander on November 08, 2023, 01:07:18 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 08, 2023, 12:46:24 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on November 08, 2023, 10:20:03 AMChampionship should absolutely be linked to leagues. if you're div 1 league you're playing against better teams and therefore your team are used to playing at a higher standard than those playing in the divisions below, I honestly cant understand how anyone can say a div 1 team are a Junior club
But equally can't see how playing in a League that is set to run without county players etc. means a team who managed to reach Division 1 and barely held on means they'll be good enough for Senior. Especially when their Championship results over last 8 years show they deserved to be a Junior team.
Is it hard to understand that a diluted League with no County men might not be the best judge of a team?
They stayed in Div 1 mainly wihtout their county men so surely they are stronger with them?
All 3 of Cavan's provincial representatives Senior (Gowna), Intermediate (Ballyhaise) & Junior (Arva) play in Cavan Division 1.
Cavan people think this is perfectly normal. Imagine Tyrone sending the team that finished 13th in Division 1 (Coalisland) to play in the Ulster Junior.
Quote from: InnocentByStander on November 08, 2023, 01:07:18 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 08, 2023, 12:46:24 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on November 08, 2023, 10:20:03 AMChampionship should absolutely be linked to leagues. if you're div 1 league you're playing against better teams and therefore your team are used to playing at a higher standard than those playing in the divisions below, I honestly cant understand how anyone can say a div 1 team are a Junior club
But equally can't see how playing in a League that is set to run without county players etc. means a team who managed to reach Division 1 and barely held on means they'll be good enough for Senior. Especially when their Championship results over last 8 years show they deserved to be a Junior team.
Is it hard to understand that a diluted League with no County men might not be the best judge of a team?
They stayed in Div 1 mainly wihtout their county men so surely they are stronger with them?
They won 2 from 12 without county men and finished bottom of the table. Then ambushed a relegation playoff.
Make no mistake, they are not a Senior level team. I cannot understand how people can think a team that got relegated to Junior in 21 and lost a Junior final in 22 are suddenly fit to be a Senior team. Their Championship results show that. An odd League set-up which is played without county players is not representative of all the teams. Is this really hard to understand?
Quote from: general_lee on November 08, 2023, 01:31:45 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 08, 2023, 01:07:18 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 08, 2023, 12:46:24 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on November 08, 2023, 10:20:03 AMChampionship should absolutely be linked to leagues. if you're div 1 league you're playing against better teams and therefore your team are used to playing at a higher standard than those playing in the divisions below, I honestly cant understand how anyone can say a div 1 team are a Junior club
But equally can't see how playing in a League that is set to run without county players etc. means a team who managed to reach Division 1 and barely held on means they'll be good enough for Senior. Especially when their Championship results over last 8 years show they deserved to be a Junior team.
Is it hard to understand that a diluted League with no County men might not be the best judge of a team?
They stayed in Div 1 mainly wihtout their county men so surely they are stronger with them?
All 3 of Cavan's provincial representatives Senior (Gowna), Intermediate (Ballyhaise) & Junior (Arva) play in Cavan Division 1.
Cavan people think this is perfectly normal. Imagine Tyrone sending the team that finished 13th in Division 1 (Coalisland) to play in the Ulster Junior.
Each team are where they are for a reason. Ballyhaise a good side, but have lost multiple Intermediate finals in recent years before this year. They were not good enough to get up before this.
Quote from: general_lee on November 08, 2023, 01:31:45 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 08, 2023, 01:07:18 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 08, 2023, 12:46:24 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on November 08, 2023, 10:20:03 AMChampionship should absolutely be linked to leagues. if you're div 1 league you're playing against better teams and therefore your team are used to playing at a higher standard than those playing in the divisions below, I honestly cant understand how anyone can say a div 1 team are a Junior club
But equally can't see how playing in a League that is set to run without county players etc. means a team who managed to reach Division 1 and barely held on means they'll be good enough for Senior. Especially when their Championship results over last 8 years show they deserved to be a Junior team.
Is it hard to understand that a diluted League with no County men might not be the best judge of a team?
They stayed in Div 1 mainly wihtout their county men so surely they are stronger with them?
All 3 of Cavan's provincial representatives Senior (Gowna), Intermediate (Ballyhaise) & Junior (Arva) play in Cavan Division 1.
Cavan people think this is perfectly normal. Imagine Tyrone sending the team that finished 13th in Division 1 (Coalisland) to play in the Ulster Junior.
Arva lost to Drumlane last year in the Cavan Junior Final. Drumlane then lost to the Stewartstown in the Ulster Final. Why not look at the actual games rather than an imaginary scenario?
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 08, 2023, 01:47:22 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 08, 2023, 01:07:18 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 08, 2023, 12:46:24 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on November 08, 2023, 10:20:03 AMChampionship should absolutely be linked to leagues. if you're div 1 league you're playing against better teams and therefore your team are used to playing at a higher standard than those playing in the divisions below, I honestly cant understand how anyone can say a div 1 team are a Junior club
But equally can't see how playing in a League that is set to run without county players etc. means a team who managed to reach Division 1 and barely held on means they'll be good enough for Senior. Especially when their Championship results over last 8 years show they deserved to be a Junior team.
Is it hard to understand that a diluted League with no County men might not be the best judge of a team?
They stayed in Div 1 mainly wihtout their county men so surely they are stronger with them?
They won 2 from 12 without county men and finished bottom of the table. Then ambushed a relegation playoff.
Make no mistake, they are not a Senior level team. I cannot understand how people can think a team that got relegated to Junior in 21 and lost a Junior final in 22 are suddenly fit to be a Senior team. Their Championship results show that. An odd League set-up which is played without county players is not representative of all the teams. Is this really hard to understand?
I really struggle to see your argument.
I mean, a team that is capable of winning 2 games against other senior teams, and then manage to defeat another senior team to stay in the top division, cannot be that bad that they compete in junior?
No disrespect to any junior teams in Armagh, but if they were playing in the top division in the league, they would be getting tanked every week, there would be no wins for them, no draws, no close results.
Senior teams are senior for a reason, and junior are junior for a reason and compete at that level come championship, because the playing field is truly level.
The other junior teams in Cavan that play junior league, whats their stance on teams plying their trade all year in the senior team playing junior champo, surley they cannot be happy with that?
Quote from: Westside on November 08, 2023, 02:00:50 PMArva lost to Drumlane last year in the Cavan Junior Final. Drumlane then lost to the Stewartstown in the Ulster Final. Why not look at the actual games rather than an imaginary scenario?
All Cavan's provincial reps played Senior league this year, weak mentality in the county pushing this drivel and amalgamations into provincial underage competitions
Quote from: Westside on November 08, 2023, 02:00:50 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 08, 2023, 01:31:45 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 08, 2023, 01:07:18 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 08, 2023, 12:46:24 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on November 08, 2023, 10:20:03 AMChampionship should absolutely be linked to leagues. if you're div 1 league you're playing against better teams and therefore your team are used to playing at a higher standard than those playing in the divisions below, I honestly cant understand how anyone can say a div 1 team are a Junior club
But equally can't see how playing in a League that is set to run without county players etc. means a team who managed to reach Division 1 and barely held on means they'll be good enough for Senior. Especially when their Championship results over last 8 years show they deserved to be a Junior team.
Is it hard to understand that a diluted League with no County men might not be the best judge of a team?
They stayed in Div 1 mainly wihtout their county men so surely they are stronger with them?
All 3 of Cavan's provincial representatives Senior (Gowna), Intermediate (Ballyhaise) & Junior (Arva) play in Cavan Division 1.
Cavan people think this is perfectly normal. Imagine Tyrone sending the team that finished 13th in Division 1 (Coalisland) to play in the Ulster Junior.
Arva lost to Drumlane last year in the Cavan Junior Final. Drumlane then lost to the Stewartstown in the Ulster Final. Why not look at the actual games rather than an imaginary scenario?
I'm familiar with Stewartstown, for all intents and purposes they're a middling Intermediate team that slipped into junior (Covid-related) and came right back up again. So for a Cavan Junior team to take them to extra time leads me to believe that like Stewartstown, they're not actually Junior standard.
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 08, 2023, 01:47:22 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 08, 2023, 01:07:18 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 08, 2023, 12:46:24 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on November 08, 2023, 10:20:03 AMChampionship should absolutely be linked to leagues. if you're div 1 league you're playing against better teams and therefore your team are used to playing at a higher standard than those playing in the divisions below, I honestly cant understand how anyone can say a div 1 team are a Junior club
But equally can't see how playing in a League that is set to run without county players etc. means a team who managed to reach Division 1 and barely held on means they'll be good enough for Senior. Especially when their Championship results over last 8 years show they deserved to be a Junior team.
Is it hard to understand that a diluted League with no County men might not be the best judge of a team?
They stayed in Div 1 mainly wihtout their county men so surely they are stronger with them?
They won 2 from 12 without county men and finished bottom of the table. Then ambushed a relegation playoff.
Make no mistake, they are not a Senior level team. I cannot understand how people can think a team that got relegated to Junior in 21 and lost a Junior final in 22 are suddenly fit to be a Senior team. Their Championship results show that. An odd League set-up which is played without county players is not representative of all the teams. Is this really hard to understand?
They managed not to get relegated to Div 3, What's stopping them from tanking for a few years to go down and get success because to me it sounds very do able.
Quote from: general_lee on November 08, 2023, 02:45:24 PMI'm familiar with Stewartstown, for all intents and purposes they're a middling Intermediate team that slipped into junior (Covid-related) and came right back up again. So for a Cavan Junior team to take them to extra time leads me to believe that like Stewartstown, they're not actually Junior standard.
Drumlane were the slightly better team that day and can consider themselves very unlucky to have lost on penalties.
They were a big physical team and would have been the equivalent of a top half Tyrone Division 2 side. They also had at least 3 players who played for Cavan Seniors at some stage as well - Dane O'Dowd, Ryan Connolly and whatever you called their full back. Think they finished joint top of Division 2 with Arva last year but Arva won the playoffs final. Arva 2023 version will be a stronger outfit than Drumlane 2022 from the benefit of their Division 1 experience.
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on November 08, 2023, 02:18:53 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 08, 2023, 01:47:22 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 08, 2023, 01:07:18 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 08, 2023, 12:46:24 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on November 08, 2023, 10:20:03 AMChampionship should absolutely be linked to leagues. if you're div 1 league you're playing against better teams and therefore your team are used to playing at a higher standard than those playing in the divisions below, I honestly cant understand how anyone can say a div 1 team are a Junior club
But equally can't see how playing in a League that is set to run without county players etc. means a team who managed to reach Division 1 and barely held on means they'll be good enough for Senior. Especially when their Championship results over last 8 years show they deserved to be a Junior team.
Is it hard to understand that a diluted League with no County men might not be the best judge of a team?
They stayed in Div 1 mainly wihtout their county men so surely they are stronger with them?
They won 2 from 12 without county men and finished bottom of the table. Then ambushed a relegation playoff.
Make no mistake, they are not a Senior level team. I cannot understand how people can think a team that got relegated to Junior in 21 and lost a Junior final in 22 are suddenly fit to be a Senior team. Their Championship results show that. An odd League set-up which is played without county players is not representative of all the teams. Is this really hard to understand?
I really struggle to see your argument.
I mean, a team that is capable of winning 2 games against other senior teams, and then manage to defeat another senior team to stay in the top division, cannot be that bad that they compete in junior?
No disrespect to any junior teams in Armagh, but if they were playing in the top division in the league, they would be getting tanked every week, there would be no wins for them, no draws, no close results.
Senior teams are senior for a reason, and junior are junior for a reason and compete at that level come championship, because the playing field is truly level.
The other junior teams in Cavan that play junior league, whats their stance on teams plying their trade all year in the senior team playing junior champo, surley they cannot be happy with that?
It's literally this simple: In Championship they were poor enough in 2021 to win 1 from 4 in Intermediate and then lose a relegation playoff to get relegated to Junior. And then last year lost a Junior final. Any team supposedly good enough for Senior is not doing the likes of that.
It is honestly mind boggling to me how much ye have this the wrong way round. I'd understand if both were linked nad teams moved up and down on merits of both. But they don't here. Their Championship record has them where they are, and one result in Ulster against what looks like a poor team from a County with equally weird layouts does not mean that these are some unbelievable Senior side based on League. If they walk the All Ireland maybe we could talk, but hold your horses
Quote from: general_lee on November 08, 2023, 02:45:24 PMQuote from: Westside on November 08, 2023, 02:00:50 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 08, 2023, 01:31:45 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 08, 2023, 01:07:18 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 08, 2023, 12:46:24 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on November 08, 2023, 10:20:03 AMChampionship should absolutely be linked to leagues. if you're div 1 league you're playing against better teams and therefore your team are used to playing at a higher standard than those playing in the divisions below, I honestly cant understand how anyone can say a div 1 team are a Junior club
But equally can't see how playing in a League that is set to run without county players etc. means a team who managed to reach Division 1 and barely held on means they'll be good enough for Senior. Especially when their Championship results over last 8 years show they deserved to be a Junior team.
Is it hard to understand that a diluted League with no County men might not be the best judge of a team?
They stayed in Div 1 mainly wihtout their county men so surely they are stronger with them?
All 3 of Cavan's provincial representatives Senior (Gowna), Intermediate (Ballyhaise) & Junior (Arva) play in Cavan Division 1.
Cavan people think this is perfectly normal. Imagine Tyrone sending the team that finished 13th in Division 1 (Coalisland) to play in the Ulster Junior.
Arva lost to Drumlane last year in the Cavan Junior Final. Drumlane then lost to the Stewartstown in the Ulster Final. Why not look at the actual games rather than an imaginary scenario?
I'm familiar with Stewartstown, for all intents and purposes they're a middling Intermediate team that slipped into junior (Covid-related) and came right back up again. So for a Cavan Junior team to take them to extra time leads me to believe that like Stewartstown, they're not actually Junior standard.
So what you are saying is that Stewartstown shouldn't have been a Junior team but nevertheless ended up a Junior team, despite this being based on the presumed correct way of doing things via the league. Have yous thought of basing the gradings off the Championship ;D
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 08, 2023, 12:46:24 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on November 08, 2023, 10:20:03 AMChampionship should absolutely be linked to leagues. if you're div 1 league you're playing against better teams and therefore your team are used to playing at a higher standard than those playing in the divisions below, I honestly cant understand how anyone can say a div 1 team are a Junior club
But equally can't see how playing in a League that is set to run without county players etc. means a team who managed to reach Division 1 and barely held on means they'll be good enough for Senior. Especially when their Championship results over last 8 years show they deserved to be a Junior team.
Is it hard to understand that a diluted League with no County men might not be the best judge of a team?
My issue with the club leagues is that start far too early.
Club lads will be training like mad from January on even though there's a 'split season' now.
Push the club leagues back 6 weeks and start training in March.
Quote from: Lucifer on November 08, 2023, 04:06:20 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 08, 2023, 02:45:24 PMQuote from: Westside on November 08, 2023, 02:00:50 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 08, 2023, 01:31:45 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 08, 2023, 01:07:18 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 08, 2023, 12:46:24 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on November 08, 2023, 10:20:03 AMChampionship should absolutely be linked to leagues. if you're div 1 league you're playing against better teams and therefore your team are used to playing at a higher standard than those playing in the divisions below, I honestly cant understand how anyone can say a div 1 team are a Junior club
But equally can't see how playing in a League that is set to run without county players etc. means a team who managed to reach Division 1 and barely held on means they'll be good enough for Senior. Especially when their Championship results over last 8 years show they deserved to be a Junior team.
Is it hard to understand that a diluted League with no County men might not be the best judge of a team?
They stayed in Div 1 mainly wihtout their county men so surely they are stronger with them?
All 3 of Cavan's provincial representatives Senior (Gowna), Intermediate (Ballyhaise) & Junior (Arva) play in Cavan Division 1.
Cavan people think this is perfectly normal. Imagine Tyrone sending the team that finished 13th in Division 1 (Coalisland) to play in the Ulster Junior.
Arva lost to Drumlane last year in the Cavan Junior Final. Drumlane then lost to the Stewartstown in the Ulster Final. Why not look at the actual games rather than an imaginary scenario?
I'm familiar with Stewartstown, for all intents and purposes they're a middling Intermediate team that slipped into junior (Covid-related) and came right back up again. So for a Cavan Junior team to take them to extra time leads me to believe that like Stewartstown, they're not actually Junior standard.
So what you are saying is that Stewartstown shouldn't have been a Junior team but nevertheless ended up a Junior team, despite this being based on the presumed correct way of doing things via the league. Have yous thought of basing the gradings off the Championship ;D
Precisely. I think Tyrone amended their leagues as a one-off during Covid and for whatever reason Stewartstown ended up being relegated to Junior. Hence why they were talked up so much as being contenders for an AI club junior. Not for one second do I think Stewartstown were a junior club last year.
I played a couple of times in Junior Ulster Championship,then, the way the Derry league was set,we were the 33rd team league wise, teams we played against were Intermediate.How that work playing against a team rated maybe 13th Team in a county,it be like playing Ballinascreen/Lavey (13/14 in the Derry league) in the Junior Championship, I doubt the Cavan champs would beat them to be honest.
Quote from: general_lee on November 08, 2023, 06:16:24 PMQuote from: Lucifer on November 08, 2023, 04:06:20 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 08, 2023, 02:45:24 PMQuote from: Westside on November 08, 2023, 02:00:50 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 08, 2023, 01:31:45 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 08, 2023, 01:07:18 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 08, 2023, 12:46:24 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on November 08, 2023, 10:20:03 AMChampionship should absolutely be linked to leagues. if you're div 1 league you're playing against better teams and therefore your team are used to playing at a higher standard than those playing in the divisions below, I honestly cant understand how anyone can say a div 1 team are a Junior club
But equally can't see how playing in a League that is set to run without county players etc. means a team who managed to reach Division 1 and barely held on means they'll be good enough for Senior. Especially when their Championship results over last 8 years show they deserved to be a Junior team.
Is it hard to understand that a diluted League with no County men might not be the best judge of a team?
They stayed in Div 1 mainly wihtout their county men so surely they are stronger with them?
All 3 of Cavan's provincial representatives Senior (Gowna), Intermediate (Ballyhaise) & Junior (Arva) play in Cavan Division 1.
Cavan people think this is perfectly normal. Imagine Tyrone sending the team that finished 13th in Division 1 (Coalisland) to play in the Ulster Junior.
Arva lost to Drumlane last year in the Cavan Junior Final. Drumlane then lost to the Stewartstown in the Ulster Final. Why not look at the actual games rather than an imaginary scenario?
I'm familiar with Stewartstown, for all intents and purposes they're a middling Intermediate team that slipped into junior (Covid-related) and came right back up again. So for a Cavan Junior team to take them to extra time leads me to believe that like Stewartstown, they're not actually Junior standard.
So what you are saying is that Stewartstown shouldn't have been a Junior team but nevertheless ended up a Junior team, despite this being based on the presumed correct way of doing things via the league. Have yous thought of basing the gradings off the Championship ;D
Precisely. I think Tyrone amended their leagues as a one-off during Covid and for whatever reason Stewartstown ended up being relegated to Junior. Hence why they were talked up so much as being contenders for an AI club junior. Not for one second do I think Stewartstown were a junior club last year.
So dropping to junior in a county where league and championship
are linked isn't enough to make you a proper junior team and dropping to junior in a county where league and championship
aren't linked isn't enough to make you a property junior team... How do we assess who to allow into the Ulster Junior Championship?
Simply put,a Team has to be in the Junior league, if a Intermediate league team win the Junior championship they can't go forward, Glen 3rds couldnt go forward one year, as they had a senior team, same in Armagh this year also, just need bring in a rule about a team playing in higher leagues not been eligible to play Ulster Junior Championship.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 08, 2023, 10:21:44 PMSimply put,a Team has to be in the Junior league, if a Intermediate league team win the Junior championship they can't go forward, Glen 3rds couldnt go forward one year, as they had a senior team, same in Armagh this year also, just need bring in a rule about a team playing in higher leagues not been eligible to play Junior Championship.
So if you're a junior team for 10 years, you get up to Div 2 win no games and get relegated in the league and then win the junior championship - you are excluded from the Ulster Junior Championship because you played Division 2 that year?
Yip,the year in question your still a Intermediate team, and in the Junior League the following year.
Quote from: Westside on November 08, 2023, 10:14:42 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 08, 2023, 06:16:24 PMQuote from: Lucifer on November 08, 2023, 04:06:20 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 08, 2023, 02:45:24 PMQuote from: Westside on November 08, 2023, 02:00:50 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 08, 2023, 01:31:45 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 08, 2023, 01:07:18 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 08, 2023, 12:46:24 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on November 08, 2023, 10:20:03 AMChampionship should absolutely be linked to leagues. if you're div 1 league you're playing against better teams and therefore your team are used to playing at a higher standard than those playing in the divisions below, I honestly cant understand how anyone can say a div 1 team are a Junior club
But equally can't see how playing in a League that is set to run without county players etc. means a team who managed to reach Division 1 and barely held on means they'll be good enough for Senior. Especially when their Championship results over last 8 years show they deserved to be a Junior team.
Is it hard to understand that a diluted League with no County men might not be the best judge of a team?
They stayed in Div 1 mainly wihtout their county men so surely they are stronger with them?
All 3 of Cavan's provincial representatives Senior (Gowna), Intermediate (Ballyhaise) & Junior (Arva) play in Cavan Division 1.
Cavan people think this is perfectly normal. Imagine Tyrone sending the team that finished 13th in Division 1 (Coalisland) to play in the Ulster Junior.
Arva lost to Drumlane last year in the Cavan Junior Final. Drumlane then lost to the Stewartstown in the Ulster Final. Why not look at the actual games rather than an imaginary scenario?
I'm familiar with Stewartstown, for all intents and purposes they're a middling Intermediate team that slipped into junior (Covid-related) and came right back up again. So for a Cavan Junior team to take them to extra time leads me to believe that like Stewartstown, they're not actually Junior standard.
So what you are saying is that Stewartstown shouldn't have been a Junior team but nevertheless ended up a Junior team, despite this being based on the presumed correct way of doing things via the league. Have yous thought of basing the gradings off the Championship ;D
Precisely. I think Tyrone amended their leagues as a one-off during Covid and for whatever reason Stewartstown ended up being relegated to Junior. Hence why they were talked up so much as being contenders for an AI club junior. Not for one second do I think Stewartstown were a junior club last year.
So dropping to junior in a county where league and championship are linked isn't enough to make you a proper junior team and dropping to junior in a county where league and championship aren't linked isn't enough to make you a property junior team... How do we assess who to allow into the Ulster Junior Championship?
Start by not letting a Division 1 team play in the Junior Championship.
It should be in the WTF thread.
A joke.
Image Burren, Cavan Gaels or Gaoth Dobhair saying they want to play in their Junior Club Championship.
You would all have some craic if there was a thread like this for hurling or Camogie. As some counties aren't deemed good enough to play senior you can end up with a counties senior champions in the junior championship.
Quote from: Westside on November 08, 2023, 10:28:22 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on November 08, 2023, 10:21:44 PMSimply put,a Team has to be in the Junior league, if a Intermediate league team win the Junior championship they can't go forward, Glen 3rds couldnt go forward one year, as they had a senior team, same in Armagh this year also, just need bring in a rule about a team playing in higher leagues not been eligible to play Junior Championship.
So if you're a junior team for 10 years, you get up to Div 2 win no games and get relegated in the league and then win the junior championship - you are excluded from the Ulster Junior Championship because you played Division 2 that year?
If you're playing D2 league you should be playing intermediate championship thst year. Problem solved. If it turns out you weren't good enough then you'll be back to junior the following year
Quote from: SaffronSports on November 09, 2023, 01:07:21 AMYou would all have some craic if there was a thread like this for hurling or Camogie. As some counties aren't deemed good enough to play senior you can end up with a counties senior champions in the junior championship.
I think in Camogie the club winners play at whatever level the county team does. I know the Armagh senior hurling winners go to Ulster Intermediate.
Quote from: SaffronSports on November 09, 2023, 01:07:21 AMYou would all have some craic if there was a thread like this for hurling or Camogie. As some counties aren't deemed good enough to play senior you can end up with a counties senior champions in the junior championship.
Fair point SaffronSports.
Quote from: Westside on November 08, 2023, 10:14:42 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 08, 2023, 06:16:24 PMQuote from: Lucifer on November 08, 2023, 04:06:20 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 08, 2023, 02:45:24 PMQuote from: Westside on November 08, 2023, 02:00:50 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 08, 2023, 01:31:45 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 08, 2023, 01:07:18 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 08, 2023, 12:46:24 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on November 08, 2023, 10:20:03 AMChampionship should absolutely be linked to leagues. if you're div 1 league you're playing against better teams and therefore your team are used to playing at a higher standard than those playing in the divisions below, I honestly cant understand how anyone can say a div 1 team are a Junior club
But equally can't see how playing in a League that is set to run without county players etc. means a team who managed to reach Division 1 and barely held on means they'll be good enough for Senior. Especially when their Championship results over last 8 years show they deserved to be a Junior team.
Is it hard to understand that a diluted League with no County men might not be the best judge of a team?
They stayed in Div 1 mainly wihtout their county men so surely they are stronger with them?
All 3 of Cavan's provincial representatives Senior (Gowna), Intermediate (Ballyhaise) & Junior (Arva) play in Cavan Division 1.
Cavan people think this is perfectly normal. Imagine Tyrone sending the team that finished 13th in Division 1 (Coalisland) to play in the Ulster Junior.
Arva lost to Drumlane last year in the Cavan Junior Final. Drumlane then lost to the Stewartstown in the Ulster Final. Why not look at the actual games rather than an imaginary scenario?
I'm familiar with Stewartstown, for all intents and purposes they're a middling Intermediate team that slipped into junior (Covid-related) and came right back up again. So for a Cavan Junior team to take them to extra time leads me to believe that like Stewartstown, they're not actually Junior standard.
So what you are saying is that Stewartstown shouldn't have been a Junior team but nevertheless ended up a Junior team, despite this being based on the presumed correct way of doing things via the league. Have yous thought of basing the gradings off the Championship ;D
Precisely. I think Tyrone amended their leagues as a one-off during Covid and for whatever reason Stewartstown ended up being relegated to Junior. Hence why they were talked up so much as being contenders for an AI club junior. Not for one second do I think Stewartstown were a junior club last year.
So dropping to junior in a county where league and championship are linked isn't enough to make you a proper junior team and dropping to junior in a county where league and championship aren't linked isn't enough to make you a property junior team... How do we assess who to allow into the Ulster Junior Championship?
Stewartstown dropping to junior was an anomaly, as was clearly explained.
Quote from: SaffronSports on November 09, 2023, 01:07:21 AMYou would all have some craic if there was a thread like this for hurling or Camogie. As some counties aren't deemed good enough to play senior you can end up with a counties senior champions in the junior championship.
I have already pointed out that the likes of Swatragh playing Junior hurling is a joke. If they were in Armagh they'd be challenging Keady & Middletown.
Quote from: general_lee on November 09, 2023, 09:21:22 AMQuote from: SaffronSports on November 09, 2023, 01:07:21 AMYou would all have some craic if there was a thread like this for hurling or Camogie. As some counties aren't deemed good enough to play senior you can end up with a counties senior champions in the junior championship.
I have already pointed out that the likes of Swatragh playing Junior hurling is a joke. If they were in Armagh they'd be challenging Keady & Middletown.
Do they win Ulster Juniors regularly? Were they in it the year Craobh Rua from Armagh won it? Craobh Rua went up to senior and were well off the 2 big clubs.
They don't play in it regularly. Every derry team starts in senior and it depends where you get in it whether you go into junior or not. They have been in senior finals in the not that distant past.
wiki link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derry_Junior_Hurling_Championship)
Banagher were in intermediate the other year nearly getting to the AI final and got beat in the junior final this year.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 09:38:50 AMQuote from: general_lee on November 09, 2023, 09:21:22 AMQuote from: SaffronSports on November 09, 2023, 01:07:21 AMYou would all have some craic if there was a thread like this for hurling or Camogie. As some counties aren't deemed good enough to play senior you can end up with a counties senior champions in the junior championship.
I have already pointed out that the likes of Swatragh playing Junior hurling is a joke. If they were in Armagh they'd be challenging Keady & Middletown.
Do they win Ulster Juniors regularly? Were they in it the year Craobh Rua from Armagh won it? Craobh Rua went up to senior and were well off the 2 big clubs.
No Team can win Ulster IHC or JHC "Regularly" as once you win the competition you have a ban on entering the competition for a certain number of years.
Derry Hurling is a strange run competition starting off with group games and where you finish determines what grade your in.
Quote from: marty34 on November 08, 2023, 11:46:46 PMQuote from: Westside on November 08, 2023, 10:14:42 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 08, 2023, 06:16:24 PMQuote from: Lucifer on November 08, 2023, 04:06:20 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 08, 2023, 02:45:24 PMQuote from: Westside on November 08, 2023, 02:00:50 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 08, 2023, 01:31:45 PMQuote from: InnocentByStander on November 08, 2023, 01:07:18 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 08, 2023, 12:46:24 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on November 08, 2023, 10:20:03 AMChampionship should absolutely be linked to leagues. if you're div 1 league you're playing against better teams and therefore your team are used to playing at a higher standard than those playing in the divisions below, I honestly cant understand how anyone can say a div 1 team are a Junior club
But equally can't see how playing in a League that is set to run without county players etc. means a team who managed to reach Division 1 and barely held on means they'll be good enough for Senior. Especially when their Championship results over last 8 years show they deserved to be a Junior team.
Is it hard to understand that a diluted League with no County men might not be the best judge of a team?
They stayed in Div 1 mainly wihtout their county men so surely they are stronger with them?
All 3 of Cavan's provincial representatives Senior (Gowna), Intermediate (Ballyhaise) & Junior (Arva) play in Cavan Division 1.
Cavan people think this is perfectly normal. Imagine Tyrone sending the team that finished 13th in Division 1 (Coalisland) to play in the Ulster Junior.
Arva lost to Drumlane last year in the Cavan Junior Final. Drumlane then lost to the Stewartstown in the Ulster Final. Why not look at the actual games rather than an imaginary scenario?
I'm familiar with Stewartstown, for all intents and purposes they're a middling Intermediate team that slipped into junior (Covid-related) and came right back up again. So for a Cavan Junior team to take them to extra time leads me to believe that like Stewartstown, they're not actually Junior standard.
So what you are saying is that Stewartstown shouldn't have been a Junior team but nevertheless ended up a Junior team, despite this being based on the presumed correct way of doing things via the league. Have yous thought of basing the gradings off the Championship ;D
Precisely. I think Tyrone amended their leagues as a one-off during Covid and for whatever reason Stewartstown ended up being relegated to Junior. Hence why they were talked up so much as being contenders for an AI club junior. Not for one second do I think Stewartstown were a junior club last year.
So dropping to junior in a county where league and championship are linked isn't enough to make you a proper junior team and dropping to junior in a county where league and championship aren't linked isn't enough to make you a property junior team... How do we assess who to allow into the Ulster Junior Championship?
Start by not letting a Division 1 team play in the Junior Championship.
It should be in the WTF thread.
A joke.
Image Burren, Cavan Gaels or Gaoth Dobhair saying they want to play in their Junior Club Championship.
If Burren, Cavan Gaels or Gaoth Dobhair got relegated from Senior in 2017, relegated from intermediate in 2021, and lost a Junior final in 2022 then yes they'd play in a Junior Championship this year. You realise you're not comparing the same things here?
It happens all the time all over the country. an otherwise decent team gets relegated etc How often do we double take on club results where we see a team we always considered Senior down playing an Intermediate game or such. It happens.
The relevance of league positions to championship levels has become cloudy with the split season. A medium-sized club in a competitive county could get to end of May without a number of u20 county players, and end of July without a number of senior county players. A situation heightened again if dealing with a dual club. At which point there's really no comparison in terms of ability, between their senior football league team of early May and their championship team of late August.
That said. For as long as there's a core of "non-county" players within their club capable of holding down a D1 league spot, then that club should never be permitted an opportunity to play championship in any grade below SFC. Otherwise you might as well completely bin league football and just declare every match before August a friendly.
Sure it's not a question of saying you "want" to play junior championship.
If you manage to get yourself relegated in championship football from both senior and intermediate then it will happen.
Where there is no link between league and championship it can and sometimes does happen.
Sin e
In reference to the talk of Division 1 teams in Junior Championship.
The opposite is actually true in Leitrim.
Gortletteragh a Division 3 team stayed up in Senior Championship this year.
Whilst Dromahair who got relegated to division 3 from division 2 also stayed up in Senior Championship.
Perhaps some Leitrim posters will provide more information on this?
I don't really get the bitterness from some re the Cavan grading. Drumlane and Denn both won and reached the junior final in recent years neither of them were Division 1. I think looking at the history of the competition it seems to be mostly won by Tyrone, Cavan and Monaghan clubs as they are stronger at that level. In contrast Cavan clubs have barely won a match in the Ulster Senior club for 20 years. Theres a lot of differences between counties in grading, and reserve teams playing in first team leagues. I'm not sure there is a best way. Even posters have mentioned here Cullyhanna are basically a top Senior championship side operating in Intermediate because of the league grading system.
I'd be much more concerned about super clubs totally dominating the Senior Club All Ireland, with the same winners year in year out and the likes of Kilmacud with more players and backing than most county teams.
Quote from: thewobbler on November 09, 2023, 12:01:49 PMThe relevance of league positions to championship levels has become cloudy with the split season. A medium-sized club in a competitive county could get to end of May without a number of u20 county players, and end of July without a number of senior county players. A situation heightened again if dealing with a dual club. At which point there's really no comparison in terms of ability, between their senior football league team of early May and their championship team of late August.
That said. For as long as there's a core of "non-county" players within their club capable of holding down a D1 league spot, then that club should never be permitted an opportunity to play championship in any grade below SFC. Otherwise you might as well completely bin league football and just declare every match before August a friendly.
The county players argument actually works against people saying its grand for a team to play division one league and junior championship. As you say, surely if a team can play in division one with no county men, if you add the county men back in they are even stronger? Madness
Quote from: full moon on November 09, 2023, 02:35:41 PMI don't really get the bitterness from some re the Cavan grading. Drumlane and Denn both won and reached the junior final in recent years neither of them were Division 1. I think looking at the history of the competition it seems to be mostly won by Tyrone, Cavan and Monaghan clubs as they are stronger at that level. In contrast Cavan clubs have barely won a match in the Ulster Senior club for 20 years. Theres a lot of differences between counties in grading, and reserve teams playing in first team leagues. I'm not sure there is a best way. Even posters have mentioned here Cullyhanna are basically a top Senior championship side operating in Intermediate because of the league grading system.
I'd be much more concerned about super clubs totally dominating the Senior Club All Ireland, with the same winners year in year out and the likes of Kilmacud with more players and backing than most county teams.
Cullyhanna had declined, they'd lost a good few lads. This year they pulled themselves together and got close to a full strength team out. They'd done very little in the senior championship the last few years as well
Quote from: full moon on November 09, 2023, 02:35:41 PMI don't really get the bitterness from some re the Cavan grading. Drumlane and Denn both won and reached the junior final in recent years neither of them were Division 1. I think looking at the history of the competition it seems to be mostly won by Tyrone, Cavan and Monaghan clubs as they are stronger at that level. In contrast Cavan clubs have barely won a match in the Ulster Senior club for 20 years. Theres a lot of differences between counties in grading, and reserve teams playing in first team leagues. I'm not sure there is a best way. Even posters have mentioned here Cullyhanna are basically a top Senior championship side operating in Intermediate because of the league grading system.
I'd be much more concerned about super clubs totally dominating the Senior Club All Ireland, with the same winners year in year out and the likes of Kilmacud with more players and backing than most county teams.
Cullyhanna this year had two former county players(Sean Connell & Mickey Murray)and two players returning from abroad ( Ciaran McCooey and Tony Donnelly who were involved with New York previously) playing this year who were not involved last year. They then have three players with county duffy, nugent and mcquillan who played little in the league. If Cullyhanna had the same player availability as last year, I do not believe they would have won Armagh as convincingly as they did. Pearse Og botched two massive goal chances in the semi final at the start of second half, if either goes in Cullyhanna could have easily been beat.
I believe the structure in the Armagh championship is sound the way it is and this is more of a once off as the intermediate championship would normally be more competitive than senior and probably 5/6 teams minimum with a genuine belief they can win it. Would also note that Culloville also beat Cullyhanna in league decider to win the league with all county men available as far as I know. I can't remember the last time an Armagh team won a game in Ulster at intermediate either but its at least 10 years.
This weekends predictions
Senior
Trillick (Tyrone) v Crossmaglen (Armagh) - Crossmaglen by 2
Kilcoo (Down) v - Scotstown (Monaghan) - Draw, Kilcoo by 5
Glenn (Derry) v Cargin (Antrim) - Glen by 8
Gowna (Cavan) v Glenties (Donegal) - Glenties by 3
Intermediate
Ballyhaise (Cavan) v Downings (Donegal) - Ballyhaise by 4
Liatroim (Down) v Killanny (Monaghan) - Killanny by 4
Glenullin (Derry) v Glenravel (Antrim) - Glenullin by 11
Pomeroy (Tyrone) v St Patricks (Armagh) - Pomeroy by 9
Anyone else throwing their hat into the ring?
Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 09, 2023, 04:03:57 PMThis weekends predictions
Senior
Trillick (Tyrone) v Crossmaglen (Armagh) - Crossmaglen by 2
Kilcoo (Down) v - Scotstown (Monaghan) - Draw, Kilcoo by 5
Glenn (Derry) v Cargin (Antrim) - Glen by 8
Gowna (Cavan) v Glenties (Donegal) - Glenties by 3
Intermediate
Ballyhaise (Cavan) v Downings (Donegal) - Ballyhaise by 4
Liatroim (Down) v Killanny (Monaghan) - Killanny by 4
Glenullin (Derry) v Glenravel (Antrim) - Glenullin by 11
Pomeroy (Tyrone) v St Patricks (Armagh) - Pomeroy by 9
Anyone else throwing their hat into the ring?
I see Paddy Power have Killanny as favourites v Liatroim. Ive genuinely never heard off them, Liatroim have home advantage, and had a solid win last week. They are also a big physical team, which is no harm this time of year.
I've had a punt on them @ 13/8 I think it's good value. Have Killanny a bit of pedigree that I am overlooking?
Quote from: ardtole on November 09, 2023, 04:53:52 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 09, 2023, 04:03:57 PMThis weekends predictions
Senior
Trillick (Tyrone) v Crossmaglen (Armagh) - Crossmaglen by 2
Kilcoo (Down) v - Scotstown (Monaghan) - Draw, Kilcoo by 5
Glenn (Derry) v Cargin (Antrim) - Glen by 8
Gowna (Cavan) v Glenties (Donegal) - Glenties by 3
Intermediate
Ballyhaise (Cavan) v Downings (Donegal) - Ballyhaise by 4
Liatroim (Down) v Killanny (Monaghan) - Killanny by 4
Glenullin (Derry) v Glenravel (Antrim) - Glenullin by 11
Pomeroy (Tyrone) v St Patricks (Armagh) - Pomeroy by 9
Anyone else throwing their hat into the ring?
I see Paddy Power have Killanny as favourites v Liatroim. Ive genuinely never heard off them, Liatroim have home advantage, and had a solid win last week. They are also a big physical team, which is no harm this time of year.
I've had a punt on them @ 13/8 I think it's good value. Have Killanny a bit of pedigree that I am overlooking?
You could be right but I watched the game last weekend and Teemore didn't perform at all. Only for a 15 minute spell in the second half where they had Liatroim under pressure.
Glenullin by 11???
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 02:41:23 PMQuote from: thewobbler on November 09, 2023, 12:01:49 PMThe relevance of league positions to championship levels has become cloudy with the split season. A medium-sized club in a competitive county could get to end of May without a number of u20 county players, and end of July without a number of senior county players. A situation heightened again if dealing with a dual club. At which point there's really no comparison in terms of ability, between their senior football league team of early May and their championship team of late August.
That said. For as long as there's a core of "non-county" players within their club capable of holding down a D1 league spot, then that club should never be permitted an opportunity to play championship in any grade below SFC. Otherwise you might as well completely bin league football and just declare every match before August a friendly.
The county players argument actually works against people saying its grand for a team to play division one league and junior championship. As you say, surely if a team can play in division one with no county men, if you add the county men back in they are even stronger? Madness
Killygarry are one of the top sides in Cavan, finalists last year, drew with Gowna in the championship. They have a lot of county players and got relegated in the league. If the league and championship were linked they would be intermediate championship next year.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 05:58:03 AMQuote from: SaffronSports on November 09, 2023, 01:07:21 AMYou would all have some craic if there was a thread like this for hurling or Camogie. As some counties aren't deemed good enough to play senior you can end up with a counties senior champions in the junior championship.
I think in Camogie the club winners play at whatever level the county team does. I know the Armagh senior hurling winners go to Ulster Intermediate.
Camogie only has one Intermediate club championship I believe which means Eglish of Tyrone will represent Ulster in the All Ireland Intermediate.
Last year you had Down Vs Tyrone but because Clonduff won the All Ireland the Down champions are up to Senior level.
Armagh and Cavan senior champs go to Junior A with Antrim, Derry and Down Intermediate. There's Junior B as well and then a tournament called the Bridie McMenamin Shield which has the Antrim Junior champs etc but it stops at Ulster level.
In hurling Setanta won the Donegal senior and Ulster Junior last year. As has been said Swatragh are in Junior but probably one of the strongest teams in it are Castleblayney who have played Intermediate for years but lost the Monaghan final so are in Junior this year.
I'm not sure what you do to try to balance it out to be honest. It's all very complex. I don't really understand the Arva thing. Presumably there's straight relegation from the Championship while they've maintained their league position but struggled at championship. In Antrim there's the opposite issue with Dunloy. Made the senior football final this year but got relegated to division 3 in the league.
Quote from: ardtole on November 09, 2023, 04:53:52 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 09, 2023, 04:03:57 PMThis weekends predictions
Senior
Trillick (Tyrone) v Crossmaglen (Armagh) - Crossmaglen by 2
Kilcoo (Down) v - Scotstown (Monaghan) - Draw, Kilcoo by 5
Glenn (Derry) v Cargin (Antrim) - Glen by 8
Gowna (Cavan) v Glenties (Donegal) - Glenties by 3
Intermediate
Ballyhaise (Cavan) v Downings (Donegal) - Ballyhaise by 4
Liatroim (Down) v Killanny (Monaghan) - Killanny by 4
Glenullin (Derry) v Glenravel (Antrim) - Glenullin by 11
Pomeroy (Tyrone) v St Patricks (Armagh) - Pomeroy by 9
Anyone else throwing their hat into the ring?
I see Paddy Power have Killanny as favourites v Liatroim. Ive genuinely never heard off them, Liatroim have home advantage, and had a solid win last week. They are also a big physical team, which is no harm this time of year.
I've had a punt on them @ 13/8 I think it's good value. Have Killanny a bit of pedigree that I am overlooking?
they came from knowhere to win Monaghan so I'm told so could be right having saw both cullyhanna and Pomeroy in the flesh it certainly won't be a 9 point game
Unless Cullyhanna have been on the piss for 2 weeks or Pomeroy are a whole lot better than most people think then that'll be closer than a 9 point game
Senior
Trillick (Tyrone) v Crossmaglen (Armagh) - Trillick by 1
Kilcoo (Down) v - Scotstown (Monaghan) - Kilcoo by 7
Glen (Derry) v Cargin (Antrim) - Glen by 11
Gowna (Cavan) v Glenties (Donegal) - Glenties by 1
Intermediate
Ballyhaise (Cavan) v Downings (Donegal) - Ballyhaise by 2
Liatroim (Down) v Killanny (Monaghan) - Liatroim by 6
Glenullin (Derry) v Glenravel (Antrim) - Glenullin by 12
Pomeroy (Tyrone) v St Patricks (Armagh) - StPatricks by 3
Trillick (Tyrone) v Crossmaglen (Armagh) - Cross by 3
Kilcoo (Down) v - Scotstown (Monaghan) - Kilcoo by 5
Glen (Derry) v Cargin (Antrim) - Glen by 9
Gowna (Cavan) v Glenties (Donegal) - Glenties by 2
Intermediate
Ballyhaise (Cavan) v Downings (Donegal) - Ballyhaise by 3
Liatroim (Down) v Killanny (Monaghan) - Liatroim by 2
Glenullin (Derry) v Glenravel (Antrim) - Glenullin by 5
Pomeroy (Tyrone) v St Patricks (Armagh) - StPatricks by 4
Few guesses there lol
Trillick (Tyrone) v Crossmaglen (Armagh) - Trillick AET
Kilcoo (Down) v - Scotstown (Monaghan) - Kilcoo by 3
Glen (Derry) v Cargin (Antrim) - Glen by 6
Gowna (Cavan) v Glenties (Donegal) - Glenties by 4
Intermediate
Ballyhaise (Cavan) v Downings (Donegal) - Ballyhaise by 15
Liatroim (Down) v Killanny (Monaghan) - Liatroim by 1
Glenullin (Derry) v Glenravel (Antrim) - Glenullin by 6
Pomeroy (Tyrone) v St Patricks (Armagh) - Pomeroy by 2
Trillick (Tyrone) v Crossmaglen (Armagh) - Crossmaglen by 2
Kilcoo (Down) v - Scotstown (Monaghan) - Kilcoo by 5
Glen (Derry) v Cargin (Antrim) - Glen by 8
Gowna (Cavan) v Glenties (Donegal) - Glenties by 3
Intermediate
Ballyhaise (Cavan) v Downings (Donegal) - Ballyhaise by 6
Liatroim (Down) v Killanny (Monaghan) - Liatroim by 2
Glenullin (Derry) v Glenravel (Antrim) - Glenravel by 2
Pomeroy (Tyrone) v St Patricks (Armagh) - Pomeroy by 2
Trillick by 2
Scotstown by 1
Glen by 8
Gowna by 3
Ballyhaise by 3
Liatroim by 2
Glenullin by 5
Pomeroy by 7
Trillick (Tyrone) v Crossmaglen (Armagh) - Cross by 1
Kilcoo (Down) v - Scotstown (Monaghan) - Kilcoo by 4
Glen (Derry) v Cargin (Antrim) - Glen by 7
Gowna (Cavan) v Glenties (Donegal) - Gowna by 1
Intermediate
Ballyhaise (Cavan) v Downings (Donegal) - Ballyhaise by 9
Liatroim (Down) v Killanny (Monaghan) - Killanny by 2
Glenullin (Derry) v Glenravel (Antrim) - Glenravel by 3
Pomeroy (Tyrone) v St Patricks (Armagh) - Pomeroy by 1
Trillick (Tyrone) v Crossmaglen (Armagh) - Trillick by 2
Kilcoo (Down) v - Scotstown (Monaghan) - Kilcoo by 3
Glen (Derry) v Cargin (Antrim) - Glen by 6
Gowna (Cavan) v Glenties (Donegal) - Glenties by 2
Intermediate
Ballyhaise (Cavan) v Downings (Donegal) - Ballyhaise by 5
Liatroim (Down) v Killanny (Monaghan) - Liatroim by 5
Glenullin (Derry) v Glenravel (Antrim) - Glenullin by 4
Pomeroy (Tyrone) v St Patricks (Armagh) - Cullyhanna by 2
Trillick (Tyrone) v Crossmaglen (Armagh) - Crossmaglen by 2
Kilcoo (Down) v - Scotstown (Monaghan) - Kilcoo by 2
Glen (Derry) v Cargin (Antrim) - Glen by 5
Gowna (Cavan) v Glenties (Donegal) - Glenties by 2
Intermediate
Ballyhaise (Cavan) v Downings (Donegal) - Ballyhaise by 5
Liatroim (Down) v Killanny (Monaghan) - Liatroim by 3
Glenullin (Derry) v Glenravel (Antrim) - Glenullin by 4
Pomeroy (Tyrone) v St Patricks (Armagh) - Cullyhanna by 4
Is the leaked partial referees report doing the rounds on WhatsApp from the Na Rossa/Lisnaskea game genuine?
Six Counties the buzz word lol.
Trillick (Tyrone) v Crossmaglen (Armagh) - Trillick by 2
Kilcoo (Down) v - Scotstown (Monaghan) - Kilcoo by 2
Glen (Derry) v Cargin (Antrim) - Glen by 8
Gowna (Cavan) v Glenties (Donegal) - Glenties by 4
Intermediate
Ballyhaise (Cavan) v Downings (Donegal) - Ballyhaise by 3
Liatroim (Down) v Kilkenny (Monaghan) - Kilkenny by 2
Glenullin (Derry) v Glenravel (Antrim) - Glenullin by 8
Pomeroy (Tyrone) v St Patricks (Armagh) - Pomeroy by 1
Quote from: DownFanatic on November 08, 2023, 11:02:19 AMWhen you strip it all back, the All Ireland Intermediate and Junior competitions aren't really fit for purpose. The sentiment at the time of their creation was in the right spirit. But when you look at it, both competitions operate on a skewed playing field. There are huge disparities in how counties run their internal competitions.
Disagree entirely, these are excellent competitions that give a whole raft of players and clubs chances of provincial glory and maybe even the chance of bringing the parish to Croker.
Whilst of course it's virtually impossible to align grades across counties, that's simply a function of the county populations. How could the 20th best team in Leitrim be expected to compete with Galway's 20th best team for example (I don't think Leitrim have 20 teams!).
For a junior or intermediate club, win your own county, enjoy it and then if you think you've a chance, have a crack at going further - but it's bonus territory.
As some have said arva might be strong for junior, but it looks like they're well off senior, so this is their chance to give the club a day out and go on a run that might be remembered for decades.
Quote from: onefineday on November 11, 2023, 07:47:05 AMQuote from: DownFanatic on November 08, 2023, 11:02:19 AMWhen you strip it all back, the All Ireland Intermediate and Junior competitions aren't really fit for purpose. The sentiment at the time of their creation was in the right spirit. But when you look at it, both competitions operate on a skewed playing field. There are huge disparities in how counties run their internal competitions.
Disagree entirely, these are excellent competitions that give a whole raft of players and clubs chances of provincial glory and maybe even the chance of bringing the parish to Croker.
Whilst of course it's virtually impossible to align grades across counties, that's simply a function of the county populations. How could the 20th best team in Leitrim be expected to compete with Galway's 20th best team for example (I don't think Leitrim have 20 teams!).
For a junior or intermediate club, win your own county, enjoy it and then if you think you've a chance, have a crack at going further - but it's bonus territory.
As some have said arva might be strong for junior, but it looks like they're well off senior, so this is their chance to give the club a day out and go on a run that might be remembered for decades.
Most county junior champs have pretty much zero chance though, that's the problem. You manage to prevail in Ulster, the likelihood is you'll either face a Kerry Div 1 team in the semi or final
Regardless of how certain Cavan men in here try to paint this, Arva with a plethora of county men plying their trade in Div 1 and competing in Junior is unfair in the extreme (both in the Cavan junior championship and Ulster)
Pomeroy have been much sharper but only 1 ahead at h/t. They've kept the Armagh county men quiet though.
Pomeroy went 8-5 up early in 2nd half but Cullyhanna have scored 4 in a row. Think it was McGeary who missed an easy free for Pomeroy so it should be level with nearly 10 mins left.
Cullyhanna win it with pretty much the last kick. Pomeroy suffer first defeat in Ulster into their 3rd campaign.
Pomeroy beat. Cullyhanna win it by a point. What time's throw in for Cross Vs Trillick?
Nugent good at the frees. Don't usually see it with rian taking everything with the county
Quote from: SaffronSports on November 11, 2023, 06:22:14 PMPomeroy beat. Cullyhanna win it by a point. What time's throw in for Cross Vs Trillick?
7:15 I think
Was there to be extra time? Feel like there should have been time left there for Pomeroy to get a shot off
Was the ref told to make sure it wasn't a draw with RTÉ in town for the next game
Quote from: smort on November 11, 2023, 06:26:05 PMWas there to be extra time? Feel like there should have been time left there for Pomeroy to get a shot off
Was the ref told to make sure it wasn't a draw with RTÉ in town for the next game
Thought there could have been another 20 seconds or so possibly.
Well done Cullyhanna, never sure what to expect with them sometimes. Always produce really classy footballers but can be a bit flakey imo - tho that could describe 90% of teams tbf.
Quote from: clarshack on November 11, 2023, 06:05:37 PMPomeroy went 8-5 up early in 2nd half but Cullyhanna have scored 4 in a row. Think it was McGeary who missed an easy free for Pomeroy so it should be level with nearly 10 mins left.
was a big turning point he had kicked two monster scores before missing the easy free.
Quote from: smort on November 11, 2023, 06:26:05 PMWas there to be extra time? Feel like there should have been time left there for Pomeroy to get a shot off
Was the ref told to make sure it wasn't a draw with RTÉ in town for the next game
they mentioned on commentary et and penos so presume so, the amount of time from the foul to Nugent kicking ball over Pomeroy should definitely have been given more time.
Huge result for Cullyhanna. Big upset.
How it a big upset with 3 county men, game was seen as very close going into it. Don't know what paper u read, Big upset not!!
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 11, 2023, 07:45:27 PMHow it a big upset with 3 county men, game was seen as very close going into it. Don't know what paper u read, Big upset not!!
Irish news mostly!
Pomeroy 4/5 odds on favourites for the game and favourites for the title.
Its an upset ok.
Great result for them.
Great win for Cullyhanna. On paper they're good enough to win Ulster but like someone has said already they're flakey enough.
Quote from: JoG2 on November 11, 2023, 10:36:23 AMQuote from: onefineday on November 11, 2023, 07:47:05 AMQuote from: DownFanatic on November 08, 2023, 11:02:19 AMWhen you strip it all back, the All Ireland Intermediate and Junior competitions aren't really fit for purpose. The sentiment at the time of their creation was in the right spirit. But when you look at it, both competitions operate on a skewed playing field. There are huge disparities in how counties run their internal competitions.
Disagree entirely, these are excellent competitions that give a whole raft of players and clubs chances of provincial glory and maybe even the chance of bringing the parish to Croker.
Whilst of course it's virtually impossible to align grades across counties, that's simply a function of the county populations. How could the 20th best team in Leitrim be expected to compete with Galway's 20th best team for example (I don't think Leitrim have 20 teams!).
For a junior or intermediate club, win your own county, enjoy it and then if you think you've a chance, have a crack at going further - but it's bonus territory.
As some have said arva might be strong for junior, but it looks like they're well off senior, so this is their chance to give the club a day out and go on a run that might be remembered for decades.
Most county junior champs have pretty much zero chance though, that's the problem. You manage to prevail in Ulster, the likelihood is you'll either face a Kerry Div 1 team in the semi or final
Regardless of how certain Cavan men in here try to paint this, Arva with a plethora of county men plying their trade in Div 1 and competing in Junior is unfair in the extreme (both in the Cavan junior championship and Ulster)
My point is that clubs like arva (who never entered my consciousness before) have never won a senior title and are unlikely to, so this gives them that outlet. Are they any less deserving of it than ballymaguigan? Would the Guigan sacrifice their Derry senior title for an all Ireland junior title?? I'd be shocked if they would.
As I said at the start, this just gives that wee injection of pride and momentum into another rural area, it's a positive, it bonus territory and time everybody stopped their moaning!!
Quote from: grounded on November 11, 2023, 07:56:30 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on November 11, 2023, 07:45:27 PMHow it a big upset with 3 county men, game was seen as very close going into it. Don't know what paper u read, Big upset not!!
Irish news mostly!
Pomeroy 4/5 odds on favourites for the game and favourites for the title.
Its an upset ok.
Great result for them.
4/5 for the home team means they're essentially even.
These were the two teams at the top of the betting, if it had been in the athletic grounds, cullyhanna would probably have been favs. Slight upset at best.
Quote from: JoG2 on November 11, 2023, 10:36:23 AMQuote from: onefineday on November 11, 2023, 07:47:05 AMQuote from: DownFanatic on November 08, 2023, 11:02:19 AMWhen you strip it all back, the All Ireland Intermediate and Junior competitions aren't really fit for purpose. The sentiment at the time of their creation was in the right spirit. But when you look at it, both competitions operate on a skewed playing field. There are huge disparities in how counties run their internal competitions.
Disagree entirely, these are excellent competitions that give a whole raft of players and clubs chances of provincial glory and maybe even the chance of bringing the parish to Croker.
Whilst of course it's virtually impossible to align grades across counties, that's simply a function of the county populations. How could the 20th best team in Leitrim be expected to compete with Galway's 20th best team for example (I don't think Leitrim have 20 teams!).
For a junior or intermediate club, win your own county, enjoy it and then if you think you've a chance, have a crack at going further - but it's bonus territory.
As some have said arva might be strong for junior, but it looks like they're well off senior, so this is their chance to give the club a day out and go on a run that might be remembered for decades.
Most county junior champs have pretty much zero chance though, that's the problem. You manage to prevail in Ulster, the likelihood is you'll either face a Kerry Div 1 team in the semi or final
Regardless of how certain Cavan men in here try to paint this, Arva with a plethora of county men plying their trade in Div 1 and competing in Junior is unfair in the extreme (both in the Cavan junior championship and Ulster)
Cavan restructured the Intermediate and Junior championship 2 years ago because there was too many teams in Senior. 3 teams went down to Junior. Arva had players in Australia and some injured and were one of the teams relegated to Junior. League and Championship is separate in Cavan , like it is in lots of counties outside Ulster.
What's also not Fair is Glenullin winning Derry intermediate last year and this year and still being allowed compete in Ulster. What is the point of that
Quote from: clarshack on November 11, 2023, 06:30:26 PMQuote from: smort on November 11, 2023, 06:26:05 PMWas there to be extra time? Feel like there should have been time left there for Pomeroy to get a shot off
Was the ref told to make sure it wasn't a draw with RTÉ in town for the next gameg
Thought there could have been another 20 seconds or so possibly.
Looked strange to me. I didn't see the board as missed a bit at that time but commentator paddy hunter kept saying there was a min still to go.
If he thought time was up why did he not blow it on the kick out. Instead he let Pomeroy win kick out and advance to 45 and blew it. Strange
Pomeroy kicked some poor wides in second half that was the reason they lost not the ref.
Quote from: onefineday on November 12, 2023, 12:41:09 AMQuote from: grounded on November 11, 2023, 07:56:30 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on November 11, 2023, 07:45:27 PMHow it a big upset with 3 county men, game was seen as very close going into it. Don't know what paper u read, Big upset not!!
Irish news mostly!
Pomeroy 4/5 odds on favourites for the game and favourites for the title.
Its an upset ok.
Great result for them.
4/5 for the home team means they're essentially even.
How does that work when Cullyhanna were 11/8 in a 2 horse race? We all knew the game was drawn for Omagh, and the bookies will have factored that into their odds along with the possibility of a draw.
Anyway i thought it was a fair upset. And once again great result for Cullyhanna.
Quote from: grounded on November 12, 2023, 12:10:40 PMQuote from: onefineday on November 12, 2023, 12:41:09 AMQuote from: grounded on November 11, 2023, 07:56:30 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on November 11, 2023, 07:45:27 PMHow it a big upset with 3 county men, game was seen as very close going into it. Don't know what paper u read, Big upset not!!
Irish news mostly!
Pomeroy 4/5 odds on favourites for the game and favourites for the title.
Its an upset ok.
Great result for them.
4/5 for the home team means they're essentially even.
How does that work when Cullyhanna were 11/8 in a 2 horse race? We all knew the game was drawn for Omagh, and the bookies will have factored that into their odds along with the possibility of a draw.
Anyway i thought it was a fair upset. And once again great result for Cullyhanna.
I don't think anyone other than you is actually shocked. I had fancied Pomeroy by a point or two but there was never going to be much in it. Who do Cullyhanna play next?
Quote from: general_lee on November 12, 2023, 12:23:37 PMQuote from: grounded on November 12, 2023, 12:10:40 PMQuote from: onefineday on November 12, 2023, 12:41:09 AMQuote from: grounded on November 11, 2023, 07:56:30 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on November 11, 2023, 07:45:27 PMHow it a big upset with 3 county men, game was seen as very close going into it. Don't know what paper u read, Big upset not!!
Irish news mostly!
Pomeroy 4/5 odds on favourites for the game and favourites for the title.
Its an upset ok.
Great result for them.
4/5 for the home team means they're essentially even.
How does that work when Cullyhanna were 11/8 in a 2 horse race? We all knew the game was drawn for Omagh, and the bookies will have factored that into their odds along with the possibility of a draw.
Anyway i thought it was a fair upset. And once again great result for Cullyhanna.
I don't think anyone other than you is actually shocked. I had fancied Pomeroy by a point or two but there was never going to be much in it. Who do Cullyhanna play next?
The winners of Liatroim v Kilanny
Wouldn't have said its an upset. Anyone I talked to reckoned it would be tight and go either way by a point or two. A great result and hopefully they go on and win the whole thing now. Be some craic if they were to play Fossa at some point.
Not sure where the flakey talk is coming from. Would say that about their neighbours moreso.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 12, 2023, 01:36:40 PMWouldn't have said its an upset. Anyone I talked to reckoned it would be tight and go either way by a point or two. A great result and hopefully they go on and win the whole thing now. Be some craic if they were to play Fossa at some point.
Not sure where the flakey talk is coming from. Would say that about their neighbours moreso.
Cullyhanna v Fossa would be a possible Final. Posted this on the Tyrone thread last night:
'Have to say the Pomeroy V Cullyhanna game was at the same level as the All Ireland Intermediate Final between Galbally and Rathmore at the start of the year. Cullyhanna good enough now to go the distance.
Pomeroy just unlucky to meet a similar damn good side in the first round.'
Glenullin have massively improved from last year. Still a joke though that they aren't moving up to Senior in 2024 either.
Quote from: clarshack on November 12, 2023, 01:46:41 PMGlenullin have massively improved from last year. Still a joke though that they aren't moving up to Senior in 2024 either.
Wtf is that about. Ulster GAA should step in.
Glenullin winning handy - thought it'd be much closer as Glenravel were making big strides in Antrim. That said, Glenullin being in the Intermediate Championship again is more farcical than the Cavan situation with Arva.
Quote from: tintin25 on November 12, 2023, 01:59:19 PMGlenullin winning handy - thought it'd be much closer as Glenravel were making big strides in Antrim. That said, Glenullin being in the Intermediate Championship again is more farcical than the Cavan situation with Arva.
Hope Cullyhanna tank them
Quote from: clarshack on November 12, 2023, 01:46:41 PMGlenullin have massively improved from last year. Still a joke though that they aren't moving up to Senior in 2024 either.
That is a farce. What exactly is stopping them becoming a senior club?
Quote from: general_lee on November 12, 2023, 02:11:25 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 12, 2023, 01:46:41 PMGlenullin have massively improved from last year. Still a joke though that they aren't moving up to Senior in 2024 either.
That is a farce. What exactly is stopping them becoming a senior club?
Restructuring apparently. Maybe a 3rd team should have been relegated to Intermediate to enable them to move up next year?
Can't understand why people are so baffled by Glenullin still being intermediate, Steelstown won an All Ireland, went up to Derry senior and got tanked in their first year and Glenullin are far off the pace with them. Also consider Ballinderry and Coleraine, multiple Derry senior championships between them are in Derry Intermeidate next year
Not sure if anyone is watching Ballyhaise v Downings.
As good a first half from a team as I've seen at his level.
Ballyhiase 3-9 0-5 Downings.
Ballyhaise with great use of the kick pass.
Not sure how good Downings are but Cullyhanna could have competition for this Ulster title yet.
Glenullin with a routine victory also.
Ballyhaise would be very big physically and an excellent team. Have been trying to win intermediate for years in Cavan and kept losing finals.
Derry League was 16 for years, currently 14, think they moving to 12, hence there no teams coming up for a few years to its levels our, Yah be a joke if they were playing senior football like the Cavan team. They won 2years in a row but I still don't think they were the best team in Derry at their level either year.
Quote from: Brendan on November 12, 2023, 02:48:56 PMCan't understand why people are so baffled by Glenullin still being intermediate, Steelstown won an All Ireland, went up to Derry senior and got tanked in their first year and Glenullin are far off the pace with them. Also consider Ballinderry and Coleraine, multiple Derry senior championships between them are in Derry Intermeidate next year
Because in most other counties when you win Junior or Intermediate you are promoted not stuck in the same championship the following year.
Quote from: Brendan on November 12, 2023, 02:48:56 PMCan't understand why people are so baffled by Glenullin still being intermediate, Steelstown won an All Ireland, went up to Derry senior and got tanked in their first year and Glenullin are far off the pace with them. Also consider Ballinderry and Coleraine, multiple Derry senior championships between them are in Derry Intermeidate next year
Because in a normal world if you win the lower level comp you go up to the next tier.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 12, 2023, 01:52:54 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 12, 2023, 01:46:41 PMGlenullin have massively improved from last year. Still a joke though that they aren't moving up to Senior in 2024 either.
Wtf is that about. Ulster GAA should step in.
Agree, any county grading that allows teams to win an Intermediate championship not get promotion then sit there and win it again the following year is farcical.
Grading system very suspect in Derry it seems.
Quote from: Brendan on November 12, 2023, 02:48:56 PMCan't understand why people are so baffled by Glenullin still being intermediate, Steelstown won an All Ireland, went up to Derry senior and got tanked in their first year and Glenullin are far off the pace with them. Also consider Ballinderry and Coleraine, multiple Derry senior championships between them are in Derry Intermeidate next year
In most counties you win the Intermediate championship and you get promoted to senior, otherwise what is the point in holding the competition?
Only exception is Reserve/2nd teams from bigger clubs winning it
The Kerry grading system is very suspect also they seem to now win Senior Intermediate and Junior in Munster every year. I suppose if it wasn't for the Hurling dominance the other counties might make more noise they seem to have a serious advantage in All Ireland club.
The teams that would come down are way stronger than Glenullin, you see that the hard way with Ballinderry and, Coleraine in the intermediate championship next year.
Quote from: full moon on November 12, 2023, 04:24:33 PMThe Kerry grading system is very suspect also they seem to now win Senior Intermediate and Junior in Munster every year. I suppose if it wasn't for the Hurling dominance the other counties might make more noise they seem to have a serious advantage in All Ireland club.
Its because they have their 9th best team playing in intermediate. Imagine the 9th best team in Dublin doing that ffs.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 12, 2023, 04:57:52 PMQuote from: full moon on November 12, 2023, 04:24:33 PMThe Kerry grading system is very suspect also they seem to now win Senior Intermediate and Junior in Munster every year. I suppose if it wasn't for the Hurling dominance the other counties might make more noise they seem to have a serious advantage in All Ireland club.
Its because they have their 9th best team playing in intermediate. Imagine the 9th best team in Dublin doing that ffs.
t
They also can coast through Munster club for the most part whereas Ulster club is extremely competitive from nearly all counties
Quote from: full moon on November 12, 2023, 05:08:26 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 12, 2023, 04:57:52 PMQuote from: full moon on November 12, 2023, 04:24:33 PMThe Kerry grading system is very suspect also they seem to now win Senior Intermediate and Junior in Munster every year. I suppose if it wasn't for the Hurling dominance the other counties might make more noise they seem to have a serious advantage in All Ireland club.
Its because they have their 9th best team playing in intermediate. Imagine the 9th best team in Dublin doing that ffs.
t
They also can coast through Munster club for the most part whereas Ulster club is extremely competitive from nearly all counties
Fossa vs Cullyhanna AIF maybe.
Quote from: Brendan on November 12, 2023, 02:48:56 PMCan't understand why people are so baffled by Glenullin still being intermediate, Steelstown won an All Ireland, went up to Derry senior and got tanked in their first year and Glenullin are far off the pace with them. Also consider Ballinderry and Coleraine, multiple Derry senior championships between them are in Derry Intermeidate next year
Give your head a wobble Brendan, have you seen it happen anywhere else?
What's better for a club go up a grade and yoyo year after year same as Norwich, West Brom etc in the premier league. Glenullin aren't good enough for senior and don't get everything their own way in Intermediate as their 2 final wins have shown, you won't hear any other Intermediate clubs in Derry complain because they understand this to be the case
Quote from: Brendan on November 12, 2023, 06:43:08 PMWhat's better for a club go up a grade and yoyo year after year same as Norwich, West Brom etc in the premier league. Glenullin aren't good enough for senior and don't get everything their own way in Intermediate as their 2 final wins have shown, you won't hear any other Intermediate clubs in Derry complain because they understand this to be the case
So they should stop promotion from the English Championship?
Crazy for other Derry clubs to not complain. If Glenullin go up to Senior last season (like what happens in every other county) then another Derry club most likely Bannagher would be having a crack at Ulster Intermediate right now.
Quote from: clarshack on November 12, 2023, 06:45:49 PMQuote from: Brendan on November 12, 2023, 06:43:08 PMWhat's better for a club go up a grade and yoyo year after year same as Norwich, West Brom etc in the premier league. Glenullin aren't good enough for senior and don't get everything their own way in Intermediate as their 2 final wins have shown, you won't hear any other Intermediate clubs in Derry complain because they understand this to be the case
So they should stop promotion from the English Championship?
Soccer is a business and the tens of millions parachute payments make it a far easier decision for the boards of the clubs mentioned
Quote from: Brendan on November 12, 2023, 06:47:42 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 12, 2023, 06:45:49 PMQuote from: Brendan on November 12, 2023, 06:43:08 PMWhat's better for a club go up a grade and yoyo year after year same as Norwich, West Brom etc in the premier league. Glenullin aren't good enough for senior and don't get everything their own way in Intermediate as their 2 final wins have shown, you won't hear any other Intermediate clubs in Derry complain because they understand this to be the case
So they should stop promotion from the English Championship?
Soccer is a business and the tens of millions parachute payments make it a far easier decision for the boards of the clubs mentioned
Who says Banagher would have won Derry if Glenullin had been promoted.
They had Glenullin beaten going into injury time, then they sh1t themselves
Quote from: Brendan on November 12, 2023, 06:43:08 PMWhat's better for a club go up a grade and yoyo year after year same as Norwich, West Brom etc in the premier league. Glenullin aren't good enough for senior and don't get everything their own way in Intermediate as their 2 final wins have shown, you won't hear any other Intermediate clubs in Derry complain because they understand this to be the case
Westmeath weren't going to be winning the All Ireland this year , didn't mean they weren't happy to compete in the All Ireland series after winning the Tailtean. Same with Meath next year. They want to get better and improve.
Don't understand the fume. Scraped over the line in Derry last year and this year in semi and final. Got walloped first round Ulster last year. I'd say they'd be far from confident in a final if they even get that far. They didn't get promotion in the league so all in all settle down old chaps 😆🤣
I say they not the strongest team in Derry at this level, I still think Banagher stronger than them, result aside. Within a couple of years, once the Derry senior league at 12, Derry Intermediate teams will be strong, which normally hasn't been the case odd 25yrs with some exceptions. Ballinderry although young, I seen a few times this year and they be way stronger I think, than any team in the, Ulster Intermediate this year, only Coleraine be fit to put it up to them in Derry,
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 12, 2023, 08:21:14 PMI say they not the strongest team in Derry at this level, I still think Banagher stronger than them, result aside. Within a couple of years, once the Derry senior league at 12, Derry Intermediate teams will be strong, which normally hasn't been the case odd 25yrs with some exceptions. Ballinderry although young, I seen a few times this year and they be way stronger I think, than any team in the, Ulster Intermediate this year, only Coleraine be fit to put it up to them in Derry,
That's what Cavan done a few years ago. Reduced Senior to 12, 14 in Intermediate and 14 in Junior.
Hence why Arva are down in Junior.
They have only been in Division 1 since this year, and stayed up in a play off. Ye are doing a lot of complaining about it
No club should win 2 in a row at any grade outside senior. You win a championship you should move up and try to kick on.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 12, 2023, 04:57:52 PMQuote from: full moon on November 12, 2023, 04:24:33 PMThe Kerry grading system is very suspect also they seem to now win Senior Intermediate and Junior in Munster every year. I suppose if it wasn't for the Hurling dominance the other counties might make more noise they seem to have a serious advantage in All Ireland club.
Its because they have their 9th best team playing in intermediate. Imagine the 9th best team in Dublin doing that ffs.
Dublin have a senior Championship with 16 teams and a senior 2 championship with 16 teams - senior 2 winners get promotion to senior, but don't go into Leinster intermediate - in the interests of fairness I presume. I think Clontarf might have fancied their chances of having a decent intermediate run.
Quote from: clarshack on November 12, 2023, 06:45:49 PMQuote from: Brendan on November 12, 2023, 06:43:08 PMWhat's better for a club go up a grade and yoyo year after year same as Norwich, West Brom etc in the premier league. Glenullin aren't good enough for senior and don't get everything their own way in Intermediate as their 2 final wins have shown, you won't hear any other Intermediate clubs in Derry complain because they understand this to be the case
So they should stop promotion from the English Championship?
Crazy for other Derry clubs to not complain. If Glenullin go up to Senior last season (like what happens in every other county) then another Derry club most likely Bannagher would be having a crack at Ulster Intermediate right now.
Historically promotion in championship grades in Derry has been strictly linked to leagues. Division 1 teams play senior, div 2 play intermediate etc. This led to an extremely competitive league, it's probably fair to say that prior to the introduction of the all Ireland series, the intermediate and junior championships were very much an afterthought for teams at that level.
It's only in recent years with the move to 'split season' and the impact that's having on league football that has led to the decoupling. As for not being promoted, it's out of the club's hands, it wasn't an option. They've shown they're at the same level as the other 2/3 teams at the top of the grade, they've a very tough Ulster semi coming up which they'll be underdogs in and with Ballinderry now in intermediate, chances of the threepeat will greatly reduced.
Ulster IFC
5/11/23 - Preliminary Round
Teemore (Fermanagh) 0-04 v Liatroim (Down) 3-06
12/11/23 - Quarter Finals
Glenullin (Derry) 3-13 v Glenravel (Antrim) 0-07
Ballyhaise (Cavan) 4-15 v Downings (Donegal) 0-11
Pomeroy (Tyrone) 0-10 v Cullyhanna (Armagh) 0-11
Killanny (Monaghan) 0-07 v Liatroim (Down) 0-09
Semi Finals
Glenullin v Ballyhaise
Cullyhanna v Liatroim
Ulster JFC
29/10/23 - Preliminary Round
Ballyhegan (Armagh) 1-06 v Fintona (Tyrone) 1-16
5/11/23 - Quarter Finals
Ballymaguigan (Derry) 0-08 v Arva (Cavan) 2-17
Na Rossa (Donegal) 2-05 v Lisnaskea (Fermanagh) 1-09
Blackhill (Monaghan) 5-11 v Rasharkin (Antim) 1-07
Fintona (Tyrone) 0-11 v Drumaness (Down) 0-07
Semi Finals
Arva v Lisnaskea
Blackhill v Fintona
Intermediate looks fairly open, I reckon it will be a Ballyhaise/Cullyhanna final though.
Who do Arva play in the AI Junior semi?
This weeks predictions;
Arva v Lisnaskea - Arva by 23
Blackhill v Fintona - Blackhill by 3
Former Donegal player and manager Declan Bonner is facing a 12-week suspension arising from his red card in Na Rossa's recent Ulster Club JFC quarter-final against Lisnaskea.
The Na Rossa boss was sent off along with players Denis O'Donnell, Christian Bonner and Sean McMonagle and team physio Mickey McGlynn during the ill-tempered clash which Lisnaskea won by 1-9 to 2-5. A 12-week ban has also been proposed for McGlynn by the Ulster CCC after examining referee Richie Donoghue's report.
After the game, Bonner described the standard of officating as "an absolute disgrace".
Division 1 Arva getting it tight enough against Lisnaskea. They lead 0-5 to 0-2 with 18 mins left but Lisnaskea missed a great goal chance in the 1st half.
Quote from: clarshack on November 18, 2023, 02:30:55 PMDivision 1 Arva getting it tight enough against Lisnaskea. They lead 0-5 to 0-2 with 18 mins left but Lisnaskea missed a great goal chance in the 1st half.
Aye indeed. Arva had a good goal chance too but blasted it over the bar.
Just goes to show that this is their level. Anyone who thought they walk this were far off the mark, this is tight going. Maybe the Derry champions were just poor this year
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 18, 2023, 02:36:08 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 18, 2023, 02:30:55 PMDivision 1 Arva getting it tight enough against Lisnaskea. They lead 0-5 to 0-2 with 18 mins left but Lisnaskea missed a great goal chance in the 1st half.
Aye indeed. Arva had a good goal chance too but blasted it over the bar.
Just goes to show that this is their level. Anyone who thought they walk this were far off the mark, this is tight going. Maybe the Derry champions were just poor this year
They're starting to pull away with 10 mins left but Lisnakea looked like they were no mugs either.
Quote from: clarshack on November 18, 2023, 02:39:01 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 18, 2023, 02:36:08 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 18, 2023, 02:30:55 PMDivision 1 Arva getting it tight enough against Lisnaskea. They lead 0-5 to 0-2 with 18 mins left but Lisnaskea missed a great goal chance in the 1st half.
Aye indeed. Arva had a good goal chance too but blasted it over the bar.
Just goes to show that this is their level. Anyone who thought they walk this were far off the mark, this is tight going. Maybe the Derry champions were just poor this year
They're starting to pull away with 10 mins left but Lisnakea looked like they were no mugs either.
Was just about to say. Pulled away there. Once they got past 4 ahead, they pushed on and that goal the icing on the cake for them
Lisnaskea hung in there for a good while but they were just happy to pass the ball around with the keeper . they were behind and still building it up in a snails pace.
Quote from: DreadnoughtJust goes to show that this is their level. Anyone who thought they walk this were far off the mark, this is tight going. Maybe the Derry champions were just poor this year
Yes well done Arva on showing their Junior credentials, just the measly 10 point victory today.
Lisnakea were more concerned about keeping the score down than trying to win the game.
What did Lisnakea score in 60+mins?
1-11 to 4pts the result. They had a good goal chance in the first half which should have been taken.
Quote from: general_lee on November 18, 2023, 03:23:56 PMQuote from: DreadnoughtJust goes to show that this is their level. Anyone who thought they walk this were far off the mark, this is tight going. Maybe the Derry champions were just poor this year
Yes well done Arva on showing their Junior credentials, just the measly 10 point victory today.
Averaging 12.5 point wins in Ulster on winter pitches. A class above...
Quote from: JoG2 on November 18, 2023, 04:03:12 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 18, 2023, 03:23:56 PMQuote from: DreadnoughtJust goes to show that this is their level. Anyone who thought they walk this were far off the mark, this is tight going. Maybe the Derry champions were just poor this year
Yes well done Arva on showing their Junior credentials, just the measly 10 point victory today.
Averaging 12.5 point wins in Ulster on winter pitches. A class above...
It could have been closer today if lisnakea played a bit.
Quote from: rodney trotter on November 18, 2023, 04:11:10 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 18, 2023, 04:03:12 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 18, 2023, 03:23:56 PMQuote from: DreadnoughtJust goes to show that this is their level. Anyone who thought they walk this were far off the mark, this is tight going. Maybe the Derry champions were just poor this year
Yes well done Arva on showing their Junior credentials, just the measly 10 point victory today.
Averaging 12.5 point wins in Ulster on winter pitches. A class above...
It could have been closer today if lisnakea played a bit.
Or if they played a junior team not a division 1 team
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2023, 04:27:29 PMQuote from: rodney trotter on November 18, 2023, 04:11:10 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 18, 2023, 04:03:12 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 18, 2023, 03:23:56 PMQuote from: DreadnoughtJust goes to show that this is their level. Anyone who thought they walk this were far off the mark, this is tight going. Maybe the Derry champions were just poor this year
Yes well done Arva on showing their Junior credentials, just the measly 10 point victory today.
Averaging 12.5 point wins in Ulster on winter pitches. A class above...
It could have been closer today if lisnakea played a bit.
Or if they played a junior team not a division 1 team
That's up to the Ulster Council. A
Glenullin competing 2 years in a row in Ulster is more farcical.
#wegoagain
Quote from: general_lee on November 18, 2023, 03:23:56 PMQuote from: DreadnoughtJust goes to show that this is their level. Anyone who thought they walk this were far off the mark, this is tight going. Maybe the Derry champions were just poor this year
Yes well done Arva on showing their Junior credentials, just the measly 10 point victory today.
Lisnaskea had their chances, and Arva only pulled away at the end. 10 point win does not tell the full story here
Blackhill 10 up v Fintina midway through the second half.
You'd have to have them as favourites for Ulster at this point.
Arva have no pedigree in Ulster division 1 or not whilst blackhill won this competition only a few years ago
Too much made of Arva being in Division 1. League football isn't taken serious in Cavan. Knockbride are in Division 1 next year and Junior Championship. Killygarry are Senior and in Division 2.
Blackhill hammered the Down champions and are hammering the Tyrone champions,. they won Ulster in 2019.
Quote from: rodney trotter on November 18, 2023, 05:09:40 PMToo much made of Arva being in Division 1. League football isn't taken serious in Cavan. Knockbride are in Division 1 next year and Junior Championship. Killygarry are Senior and in Division 2.
Blackhill hammered the Down champions and are hammering the Tyrone champions,. they won Ulster in 2019.
Killygarry a top 4 or 5 side in Cavan too
Similarities it would seem between Cavan and Tyrone clubs. Junior and intermediate teams would usually be among the strongest in Ulster but their seniors rarely break much delft in the Ulster Championship. Errigal in the 90s and maybe Kingscourt before that were the only victors I can ever recall at senior level.
Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 18, 2023, 05:04:41 PMBlackhill 10 up v Fintina midway through the second half.
You'd have to have them as favourites for Ulster at this point.
Arva have no pedigree in Ulster division 1 or not whilst blackhill won this competition only a few years ago
Hope Blackhill do it. Know of few of those lads, solid team.
Quote from: LC on November 18, 2023, 05:49:47 PMSimilarities it would seem between Cavan and Tyrone clubs. Junior and intermediate teams would usually be among the strongest in Ulster but their seniors rarely break much delft in the Ulster Championship. Errigal in the 90s and maybe Kingscourt before that were the only victors I can ever recall at senior level.
No comparison between Cavan teams and Tyrone ones at Junior or Intermediate.
Quote from: LC on November 18, 2023, 05:49:47 PMSimilarities it would seem between Cavan and Tyrone clubs. Junior and intermediate teams would usually be among the strongest in Ulster but their seniors rarely break much delft in the Ulster Championship. Errigal in the 90s and maybe Kingscourt before that were the only victors I can ever recall at senior level.
No Cavan team has ever won Ulster club. Don't think Kingscourt ever made a final. Bailieboro did and I think Cavan Gaels did too, both lost.
Quote from: Itchy on November 18, 2023, 06:58:20 PMQuote from: LC on November 18, 2023, 05:49:47 PMSimilarities it would seem between Cavan and Tyrone clubs. Junior and intermediate teams would usually be among the strongest in Ulster but their seniors rarely break much delft in the Ulster Championship. Errigal in the 90s and maybe Kingscourt before that were the only victors I can ever recall at senior level.
No Cavan team has ever won Ulster club. Don't think Kingscourt ever made a final. Bailieboro did and I think Cavan Gaels did too, both lost.
Kingscourt made two finals.
Quote from: Itchy on November 18, 2023, 06:58:20 PMQuote from: LC on November 18, 2023, 05:49:47 PMSimilarities it would seem between Cavan and Tyrone clubs. Junior and intermediate teams would usually be among the strongest in Ulster but their seniors rarely break much delft in the Ulster Championship. Errigal in the 90s and maybe Kingscourt before that were the only victors I can ever recall at senior level.
No Cavan team has ever won Ulster club. Don't think Kingscourt ever made a final. Bailieboro did and I think Cavan Gaels did too, both lost.
Kingscourt lost 2 in
Crosserlough too in the very early days
I didn't know that, I stand corrected
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 18, 2023, 06:26:47 PMQuote from: LC on November 18, 2023, 05:49:47 PMSimilarities it would seem between Cavan and Tyrone clubs. Junior and intermediate teams would usually be among the strongest in Ulster but their seniors rarely break much delft in the Ulster Championship. Errigal in the 90s and maybe Kingscourt before that were the only victors I can ever recall at senior level.
No comparison between Cavan teams and Tyrone ones at Junior or Intermediate.
15 titles to 4 in favour of Tyrone versus Cavan at Intermediate/Junior Level.
Is there a lot of counties were league is not taking serious a seen as a warm up to championship
Quote from: Eire90 on November 19, 2023, 12:54:58 AMIs there a lot of counties were league is not taking serious a seen as a warm up to championship
Whats the point of the leagues then if they are essentially glorified challenge matches?
Quote from: Christmas Lights on November 19, 2023, 07:41:09 AMQuote from: Eire90 on November 19, 2023, 12:54:58 AMIs there a lot of counties were league is not taking serious a seen as a warm up to championship
Whats the point of the leagues then if they are essentially glorified challenge matches?
Wait to you see antrim next season!@
Quote from: Eire90 on November 19, 2023, 12:54:58 AMIs there a lot of counties were league is not taking serious a seen as a warm up to championship
Is that not the way in every county? Wouldn't say league not taken serious it definitely is, but championship is life or death for any club that has a bit about them. Never heard of a team drinking for couple weeks after winning a league lol
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on November 19, 2023, 08:23:05 AMQuote from: Christmas Lights on November 19, 2023, 07:41:09 AMQuote from: Eire90 on November 19, 2023, 12:54:58 AMIs there a lot of counties were league is not taking serious a seen as a warm up to championship
Whats the point of the leagues then if they are essentially glorified challenge matches?
Wait to you see antrim next season!@
Tell us more
Quote from: clarshack on November 19, 2023, 11:06:41 AMQuote from: Hoof Hearted on November 19, 2023, 08:23:05 AMQuote from: Christmas Lights on November 19, 2023, 07:41:09 AMQuote from: Eire90 on November 19, 2023, 12:54:58 AMIs there a lot of counties were league is not taking serious a seen as a warm up to championship
Whats the point of the leagues then if they are essentially glorified challenge matches?
Wait to you see antrim next season!@
Tell us more
16 team division one with no relegation or promotion from division 2
Ulster JFC Semi Final Results
Blackhill (Monaghan) 2-10 Fintona (Tyrone) 0-07
Arva (Cavan) 1-11 Lisnaskea (Fermanagh) 0-04
Quote from: DownFanatic on November 20, 2023, 09:14:41 AMUlster JFC Semi Final Results
Blackhill (Monaghan) 2-10 Fintona (Tyrone) 0-07
Arva (Cavan) 1-11 Lisnaskea (Fermanagh) 0-04
Pretends to be shocked...
Quote from: InnocentByStander on November 20, 2023, 01:26:07 PMQuote from: DownFanatic on November 20, 2023, 09:14:41 AMUlster JFC Semi Final Results
Blackhill (Monaghan) 2-10 Fintona (Tyrone) 0-07
Arva (Cavan) 1-11 Lisnaskea (Fermanagh) 0-04
Pretends to be shocked...
Up blackhill!
This is Blackhill's 3rd Ulster Junior Club final in 8 years.
Do they deliberately get relegated just to get a handy championship win.
This should be questioned more than the fact Arva are a division 1 side?
I personally will be supporting the underdogs Arva this weekend.
Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 20, 2023, 07:02:30 PMThis is Blackhill's 3rd Ulster Junior Club final in 8 years.
Do they deliberately get relegated just to get a handy championship win.
This should be questioned more than the fact Arva are a division 1 side?
I personally will be supporting the underdogs Arva this weekend.
Intermediate and junior would be strong in Monaghan. Could be a multitude of reasons Blackhill get relegated. Often when a team wins a championship the following year they struggle, hard to get the huge buy in and effort needed for lads to hit top form required to win a championship 2 years in a row, older lads may decide to step away on a high after winning championships, lads who maybe had plans to travel etc may have put them on hold for a chance to win something. Maybe Blackhill are just one of those teams who yoyo, see it all the time in all sports teams that are too good for the lower tier but struggle at higher level.
Not sure how a division 1 team is gonna be an underdog in a junior match though.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 20, 2023, 07:21:03 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 20, 2023, 07:02:30 PMThis is Blackhill's 3rd Ulster Junior Club final in 8 years.
Do they deliberately get relegated just to get a handy championship win.
This should be questioned more than the fact Arva are a division 1 side?
I personally will be supporting the underdogs Arva this weekend.
Intermediate and junior would be strong in Monaghan. Could be a multitude of reasons Blackhill get relegated. Often when a team wins a championship the following year they struggle, hard to get the huge buy in and effort needed for lads to hit top form required to win a championship 2 years in a row, older lads may decide to step away on a high after winning championships, lads who maybe had plans to travel etc may have put them on hold for a chance to win something. Maybe Blackhill are just one of those teams who yoyo, see it all the time in all sports teams that are too good for the lower tier but struggle at higher level.
Correct. Monaghan intermediate is hard and difficult. 10 teams, 2 relegated from senior and 2 from junior creates a very difficult league to stay in. Blackhill themselves have about 30 adult players in total....
All fair points, alot of which are applicable to Arva.
One bad year relegated them to junior, due to injuries and players away.
And even when they got their act together they still couldn't win junior but got promoted in a diluted division 2.
It's surely to be one of the highest quality Ulster Junior finals, I'd still have Black Hill as slight favourites though.
I don't like the Cavan system, Monaghan is the fairest. 1 team up via league, 1 via champ. None of this mess playing did 1 football and playing intermediate or junior champ.
Cavan's 3 representatives in ulster this year all played div 1 league....
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 21, 2023, 09:18:17 AMI don't like the Cavan system, Monaghan is the fairest. 1 team up via league, 1 via champ. None of this mess playing did 1 football and playing intermediate or junior champ.
Cavan's 3 representatives in ulster this year all played div 1 league....
Armagh do the same as Monaghan as do Tyrone. It's probably the fairest way to divide teams in terms of ability and affords intermediate and junior clubs an easier and more realistic route to reaching senior football. As results show however it doesn't do Armagh clubs much favour on the provincial stage.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 21, 2023, 09:18:17 AMI don't like the Cavan system, Monaghan is the fairest. 1 team up via league, 1 via champ. None of this mess playing did 1 football and playing intermediate or junior champ.
Cavan's 3 representatives in ulster this year all played div 1 league....
And that's a huge exception rather than the rule. A one off. Honestly though, the obsession with League here is unbelievable when Championship results prior show true worth, Facts are, the teams were in the Championship they were in for their past performance in Championship.
It's not fair though that a team Can play a league above their grade that they are in for championship.
If you are no good in the league tough luck, you get relegated for championship.
You are either a junior, intermediate or senior club... not senior club for the league but intermediate for the championship because you feel like it
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 21, 2023, 09:47:02 AMIt's not fair though that a team Can play a league above their grade that they are in for championship.
If you are no good in the league tough luck, you get relegated for championship.
You are either a junior, intermediate or senior club... not senior club for the league but intermediate for the championship because you feel like it
Arva playing junior champ and D1 league, therefore league 2 grades above their champ positioning
They have cooked the books, like Kerry do, personally I'd be embarrassed turning in for junior champ knowing full well i was a senior player in a senior team, hollow victories all round
Quote from: tiempo on November 21, 2023, 09:56:43 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 21, 2023, 09:47:02 AMIt's not fair though that a team Can play a league above their grade that they are in for championship.
If you are no good in the league tough luck, you get relegated for championship.
You are either a junior, intermediate or senior club... not senior club for the league but intermediate for the championship because you feel like it
Arva playing junior champ and D1 league, therefore league 2 grades above their champ positioning
They have cooked the books, like Kerry do, personally I'd be embarrassed turning in for junior champ knowing full well i was a senior player in a senior team, hollow victories all round
Yeah you're right, they cooked the books. They deliberately lost last years junior final. Sure didn't they start kicking the ball over their own bar.
They should be playing div 3 league football
They should distil the cheating down and go trounce everyone at the St Jude's Junior 7s for shits and giggles
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 21, 2023, 09:18:17 AMI don't like the Cavan system, Monaghan is the fairest. 1 team up via league, 1 via champ. None of this mess playing did 1 football and playing intermediate or junior champ.
Cavan's 3 representatives in ulster this year all played div 1 league....
Arvagh have not kicked in a ball in Division
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 21, 2023, 11:00:28 AMThey should be playing div 3 league football
They are way to good for that.
Well what's the point of hav8ng 3 decisions....
Maybe Derry should play tailteann cup next year,
If they were too good they should play div 1 and senior champ like every other county
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 21, 2023, 11:11:35 AMWell what's the point of hav8ng 3 decisions....
Maybe Derry should play tailteann cup next year,
If they were too good they should play div 1 and senior champ like every other county
Maybe they should they might win a national title that way.
Quote from: Cavan19 on November 21, 2023, 11:14:47 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 21, 2023, 11:11:35 AMWell what's the point of hav8ng 3 decisions....
Maybe Derry should play tailteann cup next year,
If they were too good they should play div 1 and senior champ like every other county
Maybe they should they might win a national title that way.
Ah you know your wrong
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 21, 2023, 11:32:58 AMQuote from: Cavan19 on November 21, 2023, 11:14:47 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 21, 2023, 11:11:35 AMWell what's the point of hav8ng 3 decisions....
Maybe Derry should play tailteann cup next year,
If they were too good they should play div 1 and senior champ like every other county
Maybe they should they might win a national title that way.
Ah you know your wrong
Wrong on what?
Quote from: Cavan19 on November 21, 2023, 11:43:02 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 21, 2023, 11:32:58 AMQuote from: Cavan19 on November 21, 2023, 11:14:47 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 21, 2023, 11:11:35 AMWell what's the point of hav8ng 3 decisions....
Maybe Derry should play tailteann cup next year,
If they were too good they should play div 1 and senior champ like every other county
Maybe they should they might win a national title that way.
Ah you know your wrong
Wrong on what?
You are trying to defend that's it's okay that arva Can play div 1 and junior champ, it's wrong!
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 21, 2023, 11:53:34 AMQuote from: Cavan19 on November 21, 2023, 11:43:02 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 21, 2023, 11:32:58 AMQuote from: Cavan19 on November 21, 2023, 11:14:47 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 21, 2023, 11:11:35 AMWell what's the point of hav8ng 3 decisions....
Maybe Derry should play tailteann cup next year,
If they were too good they should play div 1 and senior champ like every other county
Maybe they should they might win a national title that way.
Ah you know your wrong
Wrong on what?
You are trying to defend that's it's okay that arva Can play div 1 and junior champ, it's wrong!
It is what it is you guys will probably be back next year spending weeks saying the same about Knockbride but it won't change anything. Once there gone up it will be back to normal.
This weeks predictions;
Senior
Trillick (Tyrone) v Scotstown (Monaghan) - Scotstown by 4
Glen (Derry) v Glenties (Donegal) - Glen by 2
Intermediate
Ballyhaise (Cavan) v Glenullin (Derry) - Ballyhaise by 6
Liatroim (Down) v St Patricks (Armagh) - Cullyhanna by 7
Junior
Blackhill (Monaghan) v Arva (Cavan) - Blackhill by 5
Anyone else?
I think Trillick might beat scotstown.
Scotstown by 2
Glen by 6
Glenullin by 2
Cullyhanna by 10
Blackhill by 3
Any of these on the gogglebox or do we have to stream
Glen on rte Saturday evening
Scotstown on tg4 Sunday afternoon
This weeks predictions;
Senior
Trillick (Tyrone) v Scotstown (Monaghan) - Scotstown by 1
Glen (Derry) v Glenties (Donegal) - Glen by 3
Intermediate
Ballyhaise (Cavan) v Glenullin (Derry) - Ballyhaise by 20
Liatroim (Down) v St Patricks (Armagh) - Cullyhanna by 2
Junior
Blackhill (Monaghan) v Arva (Cavan) - Arva by 15
Quote from: general_lee on November 21, 2023, 03:31:54 PMThis weeks predictions;
Senior
Trillick (Tyrone) v Scotstown (Monaghan) - Scotstown by 1
Glen (Derry) v Glenties (Donegal) - Glen by 3
Intermediate
Ballyhaise (Cavan) v Glenullin (Derry) - Ballyhaise by 20
Liatroim (Down) v St Patricks (Armagh) - Cullyhanna by 2
Junior
Blackhill (Monaghan) v Arva (Cavan) - Arva by 15
What are you smoking!?
This weeks predictions;
Senior
Trillick (Tyrone) v Scotstown (Monaghan) - Trillick by 2
Glen (Derry) v Glenties (Donegal) - Glen by 6
Intermediate
Ballyhaise (Cavan) v Glenullin (Derry) - Ballyhaise by 3
Liatroim (Down) v St Patricks (Armagh) - Cullyhanna by 1
Junior
Blackhill (Monaghan) v Arva (Cavan) - Arva by 3
Senior
Trillick (Tyrone) v Scotstown (Monaghan) - Trillick by 1
Glen (Derry) v Glenties (Donegal) - Glen by 5
Intermediate
Ballyhaise (Cavan) v Glenullin (Derry) - Glenullin by 2
Liatroim (Down) v St Patricks (Armagh) - Cullyhanna by 3
Junior
Blackhill (Monaghan) v Arva (Cavan) - Blackhill by 2
Senior
Trillick (Tyrone) v Scotstown (Monaghan) - Trillick by 1
Glen (Derry) v Glenties (Donegal) - Glen by 4
Intermediate
Ballyhaise (Cavan) v Glenullin (Derry) - Ballyhaise by 3
Liatroim (Down) v St Patricks (Armagh) - Cullyhanna by 2
Junior
Blackhill (Monaghan) v Division 1 Arva (Cavan) - Division 1 Arva by 3
Senior
Trillick (Tyrone) v Scotstown (Monaghan) - Trillick by 3 (I personally think Trillick are dark horses for Ulster having seen them first hand in Tyrone)
Glen (Derry) v Glenties (Donegal) - Glen by 6
Intermediate
Ballyhaise (Cavan) v Glenullin (Derry) - Glenullin by 2
Liatroim (Down) v St Patricks (Armagh) - Cullyhanna by 3
Junior
Blackhill (Monaghan) v Arva (Cavan) - Blackhill by 2
Black hill 21/20 with the bookies.
An opportunity to make a few pound there.
Bet responsibly of course.
Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 23, 2023, 01:08:39 PMBlack hill 21/20 with the bookies.
An opportunity to make a few pound there.
Bet responsibly of course.
That's some odds!
Bookies must have been swayed by all the 'Arva are division 1' chat in here
Senior
Scotstown by 4
Glen by 4
Intermediate
Glenullin by 1 aet
Cullyhanna by 4
Junior
Arva by 3
Quote from: smort on November 23, 2023, 01:20:23 PMBookies must have been swayed by all the 'Arva are division 1' chat in here
Apologies I typed that out wrong they're 21/10 so more that 2/1.
So who do we back?
Senior
Trillick (Tyrone) v Scotstown (Monaghan) - Trillick by 2
Glen (Derry) v Glenties (Donegal) - Glen by 4
Intermediate
Ballyhaise (Cavan) v Glenullin (Derry) - Glenullin by 2
Liatroim (Down) v St Patricks (Armagh) - Cullyhanna by 5
Junior
Blackhill (Monaghan) v Arva (Cavan) - Arva by 3
Very surprised everyone is not giving Scotstown a chance
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 24, 2023, 09:00:41 AMVery surprised everyone is not giving Scotstown a chance
I fancy them myself
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 24, 2023, 09:00:41 AMVery surprised everyone is not giving Scotstown a chance
Was a lot more impressed with them as Trillick. Trillick were good but Cross were woeful that day. Scotstown dug deep against a very good Kilcoo team
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 24, 2023, 09:44:44 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 24, 2023, 09:00:41 AMVery surprised everyone is not giving Scotstown a chance
Was a lot more impressed with them as Trillick. Trillick were good but Cross were woeful that day. Scotstown dug deep against a very good Kilcoo team
Cross are terrible. Too much been made of the glory days,,
What about Ballyhaise today lads. Heard they are a decent outfit
Quote from: theticklemister on November 25, 2023, 12:09:54 PMWhat about Ballyhaise today lads. Heard they are a decent outfit
Ballyhaise are a big strong athletic team with some excellent forwards. Have been trying to win an intermediate for years and beat in a number of finals.
Quote from: mrdeeds on November 25, 2023, 12:24:26 PMQuote from: theticklemister on November 25, 2023, 12:09:54 PMWhat about Ballyhaise today lads. Heard they are a decent outfit
Ballyhaise are a big strong athletic team with some excellent forwards. Have been trying to win an intermediate for years and beat in a number of finals.
They should win today handy enough
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 12:49:11 PMQuote from: mrdeeds on November 25, 2023, 12:24:26 PMQuote from: theticklemister on November 25, 2023, 12:09:54 PMWhat about Ballyhaise today lads. Heard they are a decent outfit
Ballyhaise are a big strong athletic team with some excellent forwards. Have been trying to win an intermediate for years and beat in a number of finals.
They should win today handy enough
The division 1 team vs the team that were afraid to go up? Hope they both lose
Arva 6-2 up at HT without setting the world alight. Blackhill very strong in the tackle but struggling to get scoring opportunities.
Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 25, 2023, 02:07:06 PMArva 6-2 up at HT without setting the world alight. Blackhill very strong in the tackle but struggling to get scoring opportunities.
Well they are playing a junior division 3 team...
The whole Arva thing reminds me of that video with Michael Owen scoring goals past the teenager and Neville Southall being fuming with him.
Jesus. Arva and Blackhill have some big units for Junior level
Quote from: SaffronSports on November 25, 2023, 02:47:13 PMThe whole Arva thing reminds me of that video with Michael Owen scoring goals past the teenager and Neville Southall being fuming with him.
It's embarrassing
That is at best, a hollow victory. At worst, I'll not even go there.
Quote from: theticklemister on November 25, 2023, 02:47:20 PMJesus. Arva and Blackhill have some big units for Junior level
Arva are senior. It shows how strong Monaghan club football is however
Arva come out on top 13-6. Fantastic achievement from a small club hemmed in on the Leitrim/Longford border.
Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 25, 2023, 02:55:17 PMArva come out on top 13-6. Fantastic achievement from a small club hemmed in on the Leitrim/Longford border.
Ah here...
Fair play to Arva. Should be able to consolidate as a solid intermediate team in Cavan for the next few years. Holla unquestionably man of the match, fantastic performance.
Quote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 02:59:03 PMFair play to Arva. Should be able to consolidate as a solid intermediate team in Cavan for the next few years. Holla unquestionably man of the match, fantastic performance.
He's a hardy bit of stuff
Quote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 02:59:03 PMFair play to Arva. Should be able to consolidate as a solid intermediate team in Cavan for the next few years. Holla unquestionably man of the match, fantastic performance.
Don't you mean senior...
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 02:53:48 PMQuote from: theticklemister on November 25, 2023, 02:47:20 PMJesus. Arva and Blackhill have some big units for Junior level
Arva are senior. It shows how strong Monaghan club football is however
Arva are Junior in 2023. Will be intermediate in 2024.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:00:38 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 02:59:03 PMFair play to Arva. Should be able to consolidate as a solid intermediate team in Cavan for the next few years. Holla unquestionably man of the match, fantastic performance.
Don't you mean senior...
Arva can't be senior until at least 2025.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:00:38 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 02:59:03 PMFair play to Arva. Should be able to consolidate as a solid intermediate team in Cavan for the next few years. Holla unquestionably man of the match, fantastic performance.
Don't you mean senior...
How would they be when not even good enough for intermediate 2 years ago? Don't be so bitter
Quote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 02:59:03 PMFair play to Arva. Should be able to consolidate as a solid intermediate team in Cavan for the next few years. Holla unquestionably man of the match, fantastic performance.
You'd expect Arva to be able to stay up in intermediate. Unless they take Blackhill's approach and get relegated again and look for a handy championship.
Perhaps a 2025 Ulster Junior Final of Arva v Blackhill could be on the cards again.
There was only a point between the Cavan and Monaghan Junior champions last year.
Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 25, 2023, 03:04:54 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 02:59:03 PMFair play to Arva. Should be able to consolidate as a solid intermediate team in Cavan for the next few years. Holla unquestionably man of the match, fantastic performance.
You'd expect Arva to be able to stay up in intermediate. Unless they take Blackhill's approach and get relegated again and look for a handy championship.
Perhaps a 2025 Ulster Junior Final of Arva v Blackhill could be on the cards again.
This is a golden generation for Arva, they'll be keen to keep climbing the ranks in Cavan and try to become a Senior club again.
Quote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 03:07:58 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 25, 2023, 03:04:54 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 02:59:03 PMFair play to Arva. Should be able to consolidate as a solid intermediate team in Cavan for the next few years. Holla unquestionably man of the match, fantastic performance.
You'd expect Arva to be able to stay up in intermediate. Unless they take Blackhill's approach and get relegated again and look for a handy championship.
Perhaps a 2025 Ulster Junior Final of Arva v Blackhill could be on the cards again.
This is a golden generation for Arva, they'll be keen to keep climbing the ranks in Cavan and try to become a Senior club again.
I'm sure Division 1 football will
give them an idea of what's required.
Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 25, 2023, 03:04:54 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 02:59:03 PMFair play to Arva. Should be able to consolidate as a solid intermediate team in Cavan for the next few years. Holla unquestionably man of the match, fantastic performance.
You'd expect Arva to be able to stay up in intermediate. Unless they take Blackhill's approach and get relegated again and look for a handy championship.
Perhaps a 2025 Ulster Junior Final of Arva v Blackhill could be on the cards again.
Unlike Cavan, blackhill had a great championship in intermediate... but relegated via the league
Do Cavan people realise that the majority of counties operate their championships and leagues combined? You can lose a senior champ final in Monaghan and still be relegated.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:14:26 PMDo Cavan people realise that the majority of counties operate their championships and leagues combined? You can lose a senior champ final in Monaghan and still be relegated.
No they don't.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:14:26 PMDo Cavan people realise that the majority of counties operate their championships and leagues combined? You can lose a senior champ final in Monaghan and still be relegated.
Why would Cavan people care about the way other counties structure their championships?
Cayyvaaaaannnns a backward hole. Wouldn't worry.
Quote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 03:19:43 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:14:26 PMDo Cavan people realise that the majority of counties operate their championships and leagues combined? You can lose a senior champ final in Monaghan and still be relegated.
Why would Cavan people care about the way other counties structure their championships?
It has to be changed. It's not right and unfair. The Cavan representatives should have nominated a Div 3 team to represent them in Ulster.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:21:57 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 03:19:43 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:14:26 PMDo Cavan people realise that the majority of counties operate their championships and leagues combined? You can lose a senior champ final in Monaghan and still be relegated.
Why would Cavan people care about the way other counties structure their championships?
It has to be changed. It's not right and unfair. The Cavan representatives should have nominated a Div 3 team to represent them in Ulster.
It's the Ulster JUNIOR CHAMPIONSHIP. Arva a JUNIOR CHAMPIONSHIP team. If Ulster start an Ulter Div 3 league, we'll send a Div 3 league team.
Quote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 03:26:09 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:21:57 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 03:19:43 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:14:26 PMDo Cavan people realise that the majority of counties operate their championships and leagues combined? You can lose a senior champ final in Monaghan and still be relegated.
Why would Cavan people care about the way other counties structure their championships?
It has to be changed. It's not right and unfair. The Cavan representatives should have nominated a Div 3 team to represent them in Ulster.
It's the Ulster JUNIOR CHAMPIONSHIP. Arva a JUNIOR CHAMPIONSHIP team. If Ulster start an Ulter Div 3 league, we'll send a Div 3 league team.
That's the idea of having a senior, intermediate and junior championship. Trams play at their level. The fact they play Div 1 football undermines this.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:28:26 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 03:26:09 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:21:57 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 03:19:43 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:14:26 PMDo Cavan people realise that the majority of counties operate their championships and leagues combined? You can lose a senior champ final in Monaghan and still be relegated.
Why would Cavan people care about the way other counties structure their championships?
It has to be changed. It's not right and unfair. The Cavan representatives should have nominated a Div 3 team to represent them in Ulster.
It's the Ulster JUNIOR CHAMPIONSHIP. Arva a JUNIOR CHAMPIONSHIP team. If Ulster start an Ulter Div 3 league, we'll send a Div 3 league team.
That's the idea of having a senior, intermediate and junior championship. Trams play at their level. The fact they play Div 1 football undermines this.
We have Senior Intermediate and Junior Championships too. You have to win to go up or be relegated to go down. We then send the winners to Ulster every year. Let me know if you need me to explain this again.
Quote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 03:31:22 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:28:26 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 03:26:09 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:21:57 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 03:19:43 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:14:26 PMDo Cavan people realise that the majority of counties operate their championships and leagues combined? You can lose a senior champ final in Monaghan and still be relegated.
Why would Cavan people care about the way other counties structure their championships?
It has to be changed. It's not right and unfair. The Cavan representatives should have nominated a Div 3 team to represent them in Ulster.
It's the Ulster JUNIOR CHAMPIONSHIP. Arva a JUNIOR CHAMPIONSHIP team. If Ulster start an Ulter Div 3 league, we'll send a Div 3 league team.
That's the idea of having a senior, intermediate and junior championship. Trams play at their level. The fact they play Div 1 football undermines this.
We have Senior Intermediate and Junior Championships too. You have to win to go up or be relegated to go down. We then send the winners to Ulster every year. Let me know if you need me to explain this again.
So you agree it's fair that your 3 representatives in Ulster this year all play div 1? You're been totally ignorant. It is been currently looked at by Ulster gaa and will change.
3 cheers for Arva. Hip hip ::)
Complete ignorance. These championships are ran off as one massive group where you play 4 random teams. So if you're senior and play x4 of the top teams and it doesn't go well, you're now looking at a one off relegation playoff where anything can happen. Now you're intermediate. Same again.
3 Ulster rep's playing in Division 1 is embarrassing, you can slice it whatever way you want and talk about county player availability / formats / structures whatever you want. It is utterly embarrassing.
If my club won Junior in Tyrone and then pissed Ulster, you'd nearly be mortified. And we've been poor enough in championship in recent years. Doesn't change the fact we compete in division 1 league all year and are a senior club.
What a finish by skinner.
He's hit some scores already today
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:33:12 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 03:31:22 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:28:26 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 03:26:09 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:21:57 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 03:19:43 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:14:26 PMDo Cavan people realise that the majority of counties operate their championships and leagues combined? You can lose a senior champ final in Monaghan and still be relegated.
Why would Cavan people care about the way other counties structure their championships?
It has to be changed. It's not right and unfair. The Cavan representatives should have nominated a Div 3 team to represent them in Ulster.
It's the Ulster JUNIOR CHAMPIONSHIP. Arva a JUNIOR CHAMPIONSHIP team. If Ulster start an Ulter Div 3 league, we'll send a Div 3 league team.
That's the idea of having a senior, intermediate and junior championship. Trams play at their level. The fact they play Div 1 football undermines this.
We have Senior Intermediate and Junior Championships too. You have to win to go up or be relegated to go down. We then send the winners to Ulster every year. Let me know if you need me to explain this again.
So you agree it's fair that your 3 representatives in Ulster this year all play div 1? You're been totally ignorant. It is been currently looked at by Ulster gaa and will change.
If we started linking them Killygarry would be playing Intermediate Championship next year and would do what Arva just did and dominate in Cavan and Ulster. You'd be moaning then too i'm sure.
Quote from: ClubScene13 on November 25, 2023, 03:37:45 PMComplete ignorance. These championships are ran off as one massive group where you play 4 random teams. So if you're senior and play x4 of the top teams and it doesn't go well, you're now looking at a one off relegation playoff where anything can happen. Now you're intermediate. Same again.
3 Ulster rep's playing in Division 1 is embarrassing, you can slice it whatever way you want and talk about county player availability / formats / structures whatever you want. It is utterly embarrassing.
If my club won Junior in Tyrone and then pissed Ulster, you'd nearly be mortified. And we've been poor enough in championship in recent years. Doesn't change the fact we compete in division 1 league all year and are a senior club.
If it's any consolation, nobody in Arva or Cavan is embarrassed in the slightest.
Quote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 03:39:54 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:33:12 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 03:31:22 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:28:26 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 03:26:09 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:21:57 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 03:19:43 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:14:26 PMDo Cavan people realise that the majority of counties operate their championships and leagues combined? You can lose a senior champ final in Monaghan and still be relegated.
Why would Cavan people care about the way other counties structure their championships?
It has to be changed. It's not right and unfair. The Cavan representatives should have nominated a Div 3 team to represent them in Ulster.
It's the Ulster JUNIOR CHAMPIONSHIP. Arva a JUNIOR CHAMPIONSHIP team. If Ulster start an Ulter Div 3 league, we'll send a Div 3 league team.
That's the idea of having a senior, intermediate and junior championship. Trams play at their level. The fact they play Div 1 football undermines this.
We have Senior Intermediate and Junior Championships too. You have to win to go up or be relegated to go down. We then send the winners to Ulster every year. Let me know if you need me to explain this again.
So you agree it's fair that your 3 representatives in Ulster this year all play div 1? You're been totally ignorant. It is been currently looked at by Ulster gaa and will change.
If we started linking them Killygarry would be playing Intermediate Championship next year and would do what Arva just did and dominate in Cavan and Ulster. You'd be moaning then too i'm sure.
Absolutely not. We all just want fairness. Play at your level.
It's more embarrassing that Glenullin can win Derry intermediate 3 years in a row and still enter Intermediate and Ulster.
None of ye care about that though just the same Nordie posters with a massive chip on their shoulders about Cavan. Don't know why not like Cavan GAA has much success
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:14:26 PMDo Cavan people realise that the majority of counties operate their championships and leagues combined? You can lose a senior champ final in Monaghan and still be relegated.
Cavan people should be embarrassed that Arva are in the Ulster Club Junior Championship.
Fraud of a system.
Cavan need to sort out their system, to improve it for their senior, intermediate and junior teams.
Quote from: full moon on November 25, 2023, 03:56:52 PMIt's more embarrassing that Glenullin can win Derry intermediate 3 years in a row and still enter Intermediate and Ulster.
None of ye care about that though just the same Nordie posters with a massive chip on their shoulders about Cavan. Don't know why not like Cavan GAA has much success
Very true.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:43:43 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 03:39:54 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:33:12 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 03:31:22 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:28:26 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 03:26:09 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:21:57 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 03:19:43 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:14:26 PMDo Cavan people realise that the majority of counties operate their championships and leagues combined? You can lose a senior champ final in Monaghan and still be relegated.
Why would Cavan people care about the way other counties structure their championships?
It has to be changed. It's not right and unfair. The Cavan representatives should have nominated a Div 3 team to represent them in Ulster.
It's the Ulster JUNIOR CHAMPIONSHIP. Arva a JUNIOR CHAMPIONSHIP team. If Ulster start an Ulter Div 3 league, we'll send a Div 3 league team.
That's the idea of having a senior, intermediate and junior championship. Trams play at their level. The fact they play Div 1 football undermines this.
We have Senior Intermediate and Junior Championships too. You have to win to go up or be relegated to go down. We then send the winners to Ulster every year. Let me know if you need me to explain this again.
So you agree it's fair that your 3 representatives in Ulster this year all play div 1? You're been totally ignorant. It is been currently looked at by Ulster gaa and will change.
If we started linking them Killygarry would be playing Intermediate Championship next year and would do what Arva just did and dominate in Cavan and Ulster. You'd be moaning then too i'm sure.
Absolutely not. We all just want fairness. Play at your level.
In Cavan, finding your level at Championship football means getting promoted or relegated in Championship football. I don't know why people keep banging on about League football, two entirely different things in Cavan.
I really don't get the issue here with Arva. They're in the junior championship because they weren't good enough to win it previously. League and championship aren't linked in some counties and that's fair enough as far I'm concerned.
I'd more so have an issue with Blackhill being a yo-yo club every few years, Glenullin remaining at intermediate level for two years running, or a club like Cullyhanna being relegated to intermediate via their league position, ignoring the fact they'd played 90% of the league without their county representatives. This then gave them a pretty straightforward intermediate title in Armagh and a crack at Ulster, despite being a senior club at full strength. A system like Cavan's would eradicate these problems and ensure teams that win championships move up accordingly, and those that have county representation aren't relegated to a lower tier championship via league position undeservedly.
Quote from: marty34 on November 25, 2023, 03:58:45 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:14:26 PMDo Cavan people realise that the majority of counties operate their championships and leagues combined? You can lose a senior champ final in Monaghan and still be relegated.
Cavan people should be embarrassed that Arva are in the Ulster Club Junior Championship.
Fraud of a system.
Cavan need to sort out their system, to improve it for their senior, intermediate and junior teams.
We are not embarrassed, at all. Delighted for Arva, best Junior Champions Cavan have produced in years.
Miles wide
Quote from: ranch on November 25, 2023, 04:04:15 PMI really don't get the issue here with Arva. They're in the junior championship because they weren't good enough to win it previously. League and championship aren't linked in some counties and that's fair enough as far I'm concerned.
I'd more so have an issue with Blackhill being a yo-yo club every few years, Glenullin remaining at intermediate level for two years running, or a club like Cullyhanna being relegated to intermediate via their league position, ignoring the fact they'd played 90% of the league without their county representatives. This then gave them a pretty straightforward intermediate title in Armagh and a crack at Ulster, despite being a senior club at full strength. A system like Cavan's would eradicate these problems and ensure teams that win championships move up accordingly, and those that have county representation aren't relegated to a lower tier championship via league position undeservedly.
So league shouldn't matter? Ok, let Dublin play tailteann cup.. Kilkenny play Christy ring
If league and championship were linked in Cavan and they were to send the best team in Division 3 as alot of people on here argue.That would have been either Denn or Drumgoon.
Not sure about Drumgoon but there's definitively an argument to be made that Denn are a better team than Arva and themselves won Ulster Junior 2 years ago.
And got to a Intermediate final this year.
Quote from: theticklemister on November 25, 2023, 04:06:47 PMMiles wide
100% Glenullin have a point that was miles wide, was it given ???
Refereeing here is really poor, what other people think?
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:12:18 PMQuote from: ranch on November 25, 2023, 04:04:15 PMI really don't get the issue here with Arva. They're in the junior championship because they weren't good enough to win it previously. League and championship aren't linked in some counties and that's fair enough as far I'm concerned.
I'd more so have an issue with Blackhill being a yo-yo club every few years, Glenullin remaining at intermediate level for two years running, or a club like Cullyhanna being relegated to intermediate via their league position, ignoring the fact they'd played 90% of the league without their county representatives. This then gave them a pretty straightforward intermediate title in Armagh and a crack at Ulster, despite being a senior club at full strength. A system like Cavan's would eradicate these problems and ensure teams that win championships move up accordingly, and those that have county representation aren't relegated to a lower tier championship via league position undeservedly.
So league shouldn't matter? Ok, let Dublin play tailteann cup.. Kilkenny play Christy ring
Dublin are the All Ireland Champions. Kilkenny were in the All Ireland Final. What are you talking about?
Quote from: full moon on November 25, 2023, 04:15:10 PMRefereeing here is really poor, what other people think?
Good game in fairness.. the umpire has a few pound on Glenullin
Quote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 04:17:17 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:12:18 PMQuote from: ranch on November 25, 2023, 04:04:15 PMI really don't get the issue here with Arva. They're in the junior championship because they weren't good enough to win it previously. League and championship aren't linked in some counties and that's fair enough as far I'm concerned.
I'd more so have an issue with Blackhill being a yo-yo club every few years, Glenullin remaining at intermediate level for two years running, or a club like Cullyhanna being relegated to intermediate via their league position, ignoring the fact they'd played 90% of the league without their county representatives. This then gave them a pretty straightforward intermediate title in Armagh and a crack at Ulster, despite being a senior club at full strength. A system like Cavan's would eradicate these problems and ensure teams that win championships move up accordingly, and those that have county representation aren't relegated to a lower tier championship via league position undeservedly.
So league shouldn't matter? Ok, let Dublin play tailteann cup.. Kilkenny play Christy ring
Dublin are the All Ireland Champions. Kilkenny were in the All Ireland Final. What are you talking about?
They play Div 1. Monaghan and Tipperary then...
Quote from: full moon on November 25, 2023, 04:15:10 PMRefereeing here is really poor, what other people think?
Very poor. Avoiding the big calls. The wide given as a point wasn't even close how did they all miss it.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:18:56 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 04:17:17 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:12:18 PMQuote from: ranch on November 25, 2023, 04:04:15 PMI really don't get the issue here with Arva. They're in the junior championship because they weren't good enough to win it previously. League and championship aren't linked in some counties and that's fair enough as far I'm concerned.
I'd more so have an issue with Blackhill being a yo-yo club every few years, Glenullin remaining at intermediate level for two years running, or a club like Cullyhanna being relegated to intermediate via their league position, ignoring the fact they'd played 90% of the league without their county representatives. This then gave them a pretty straightforward intermediate title in Armagh and a crack at Ulster, despite being a senior club at full strength. A system like Cavan's would eradicate these problems and ensure teams that win championships move up accordingly, and those that have county representation aren't relegated to a lower tier championship via league position undeservedly.
So league shouldn't matter? Ok, let Dublin play tailteann cup.. Kilkenny play Christy ring
Dublin are the All Ireland Champions. Kilkenny were in the All Ireland Final. What are you talking about?
They play Div 1. Monaghan and Tipperary then...
Monaghan are Div 1 and were in an AI Semi Final, keep searching.
Quote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 04:19:02 PMQuote from: full moon on November 25, 2023, 04:15:10 PMRefereeing here is really poor, what other people think?
Very poor. Avoiding the big calls. The wide given as a point wasn't even close how did they all miss it.
Also linesman/ref should have seen that surely? Hopefully that a1 point isnt the difference or will be big controversy
Ref not having a great game, he's chopping and changing what's deemed as a legitimate tackle... Should be a tight final 10 mins
Fairytale stuff re Arva
Quote from: full moon on November 25, 2023, 04:24:19 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 04:19:02 PMQuote from: full moon on November 25, 2023, 04:15:10 PMRefereeing here is really poor, what other people think?
Very poor. Avoiding the big calls. The wide given as a point wasn't even close how did they all miss it.
Also linesman/ref should have seen that surely? Hopefully that a1 point isnt the difference or will be big controversy
Looked at least a meter wide
Quote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 04:23:38 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:18:56 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 04:17:17 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:12:18 PMQuote from: ranch on November 25, 2023, 04:04:15 PMI really don't get the issue here with Arva. They're in the junior championship because they weren't good enough to win it previously. League and championship aren't linked in some counties and that's fair enough as far I'm concerned.
I'd more so have an issue with Blackhill being a yo-yo club every few years, Glenullin remaining at intermediate level for two years running, or a club like Cullyhanna being relegated to intermediate via their league position, ignoring the fact they'd played 90% of the league without their county representatives. This then gave them a pretty straightforward intermediate title in Armagh and a crack at Ulster, despite being a senior club at full strength. A system like Cavan's would eradicate these problems and ensure teams that win championships move up accordingly, and those that have county representation aren't relegated to a lower tier championship via league position undeservedly.
So league shouldn't matter? Ok, let Dublin play tailteann cup.. Kilkenny play Christy ring
Dublin are the All Ireland Champions. Kilkenny were in the All Ireland Final. What are you talking about?
They play Div 1. Monaghan and Tipperary then...
Monaghan are Div 1 and were in an AI Semi Final, keep searching.
It is the same principal. Div 1 team.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:30:13 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 04:23:38 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:18:56 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 04:17:17 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:12:18 PMQuote from: ranch on November 25, 2023, 04:04:15 PMI really don't get the issue here with Arva. They're in the junior championship because they weren't good enough to win it previously. League and championship aren't linked in some counties and that's fair enough as far I'm concerned.
I'd more so have an issue with Blackhill being a yo-yo club every few years, Glenullin remaining at intermediate level for two years running, or a club like Cullyhanna being relegated to intermediate via their league position, ignoring the fact they'd played 90% of the league without their county representatives. This then gave them a pretty straightforward intermediate title in Armagh and a crack at Ulster, despite being a senior club at full strength. A system like Cavan's would eradicate these problems and ensure teams that win championships move up accordingly, and those that have county representation aren't relegated to a lower tier championship via league position undeservedly.
So league shouldn't matter? Ok, let Dublin play tailteann cup.. Kilkenny play Christy ring
Dublin are the All Ireland Champions. Kilkenny were in the All Ireland Final. What are you talking about?
They play Div 1. Monaghan and Tipperary then...
Monaghan are Div 1 and were in an AI Semi Final, keep searching.
It is the same principal. Div 1 team.
But the only way of getting relegated from Sam Maguire is via league position. What point are you trying to make??
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:14:26 PMDo Cavan people realise that the majority of counties operate their championships and leagues combined? You can lose a senior champ final in Monaghan and still be relegated.
Yes, we do realise. But as we don't do it here, League is essentially easy going. The simple fact is they're not linked, so teams don't go all out for League as they know it's Championship you go up or down in.
Do others realise they're not linked in Cavan and Arva are where they are based on Championship results? It's that simple here. Seriously, how hard is it to understand that on Championship results, Arva are where they are on merit. They were poor enough in Championship to get relegated in 2021, and to lose a Junior final last year. Comprende?
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:30:13 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 04:23:38 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:18:56 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 04:17:17 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:12:18 PMQuote from: ranch on November 25, 2023, 04:04:15 PMI really don't get the issue here with Arva. They're in the junior championship because they weren't good enough to win it previously. League and championship aren't linked in some counties and that's fair enough as far I'm concerned.
I'd more so have an issue with Blackhill being a yo-yo club every few years, Glenullin remaining at intermediate level for two years running, or a club like Cullyhanna being relegated to intermediate via their league position, ignoring the fact they'd played 90% of the league without their county representatives. This then gave them a pretty straightforward intermediate title in Armagh and a crack at Ulster, despite being a senior club at full strength. A system like Cavan's would eradicate these problems and ensure teams that win championships move up accordingly, and those that have county representation aren't relegated to a lower tier championship via league position undeservedly.
So league shouldn't matter? Ok, let Dublin play tailteann cup.. Kilkenny play Christy ring
Dublin are the All Ireland Champions. Kilkenny were in the All Ireland Final. What are you talking about?
They play Div 1. Monaghan and Tipperary then...
Monaghan are Div 1 and were in an AI Semi Final, keep searching.
It is the same principal. Div 1 team.
But not linked here, are you unable to understand that?
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 25, 2023, 04:34:40 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:30:13 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 04:23:38 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:18:56 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 04:17:17 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:12:18 PMQuote from: ranch on November 25, 2023, 04:04:15 PMI really don't get the issue here with Arva. They're in the junior championship because they weren't good enough to win it previously. League and championship aren't linked in some counties and that's fair enough as far I'm concerned.
I'd more so have an issue with Blackhill being a yo-yo club every few years, Glenullin remaining at intermediate level for two years running, or a club like Cullyhanna being relegated to intermediate via their league position, ignoring the fact they'd played 90% of the league without their county representatives. This then gave them a pretty straightforward intermediate title in Armagh and a crack at Ulster, despite being a senior club at full strength. A system like Cavan's would eradicate these problems and ensure teams that win championships move up accordingly, and those that have county representation aren't relegated to a lower tier championship via league position undeservedly.
So league shouldn't matter? Ok, let Dublin play tailteann cup.. Kilkenny play Christy ring
Dublin are the All Ireland Champions. Kilkenny were in the All Ireland Final. What are you talking about?
They play Div 1. Monaghan and Tipperary then...
Monaghan are Div 1 and were in an AI Semi Final, keep searching.
It is the same principal. Div 1 team.
But not linked here, are you unable to understand that?
Yes I understand. The point is that it's unfair
Ballyhaise 1 14
Glenuillin 1 13
Quote from: mrdeeds on November 25, 2023, 04:40:54 PMBallyhaise 1 14
Glenuillin 1 13
Great result for Ballyhaise. I know they were up against it playing a Senior Team, which makes the achievement all the more remarkable.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:36:50 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 25, 2023, 04:34:40 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:30:13 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 04:23:38 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:18:56 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 04:17:17 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:12:18 PMQuote from: ranch on November 25, 2023, 04:04:15 PMI really don't get the issue here with Arva. They're in the junior championship because they weren't good enough to win it previously. League and championship aren't linked in some counties and that's fair enough as far I'm concerned.
I'd more so have an issue with Blackhill being a yo-yo club every few years, Glenullin remaining at intermediate level for two years running, or a club like Cullyhanna being relegated to intermediate via their league position, ignoring the fact they'd played 90% of the league without their county representatives. This then gave them a pretty straightforward intermediate title in Armagh and a crack at Ulster, despite being a senior club at full strength. A system like Cavan's would eradicate these problems and ensure teams that win championships move up accordingly, and those that have county representation aren't relegated to a lower tier championship via league position undeservedly.
So league shouldn't matter? Ok, let Dublin play tailteann cup.. Kilkenny play Christy ring
Dublin are the All Ireland Champions. Kilkenny were in the All Ireland Final. What are you talking about?
They play Div 1. Monaghan and Tipperary then...
Monaghan are Div 1 and were in an AI Semi Final, keep searching.
It is the same principal. Div 1 team.
But not linked here, are you unable to understand that?
Yes I understand. The point is that it's unfair
So you'd be happy enough if we sent Denn who won the Ulster Junior 2 years ago, were in an intermedia final this year and were Div 3 this year?
Well done our 2 Cavan representative teams today. Delighted to see Arva win and what a fight back from Ballyhaise.
Cue the whinging on Arva but they won't care lads
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 25, 2023, 04:32:56 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:14:26 PMDo Cavan people realise that the majority of counties operate their championships and leagues combined? You can lose a senior champ final in Monaghan and still be relegated.
Yes, we do realise. But as we don't do it here, League is essentially easy going. The simple fact is they're not linked, so teams don't go all out for League as they know it's Championship you go up or down in.
Do others realise they're not linked in Cavan and Arva are where they are based on Championship results? It's that simple here. Seriously, how hard is it to understand that on Championship results, Arva are where they are on merit. They were poor enough in Championship to get relegated in 2021, and to lose a Junior final last year. Comprende?
I would doubt that, I'd say majority of counties have league and championship seperate
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:36:50 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 25, 2023, 04:34:40 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:30:13 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 04:23:38 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:18:56 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 04:17:17 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:12:18 PMQuote from: ranch on November 25, 2023, 04:04:15 PMI really don't get the issue here with Arva. They're in the junior championship because they weren't good enough to win it previously. League and championship aren't linked in some counties and that's fair enough as far I'm concerned.
I'd more so have an issue with Blackhill being a yo-yo club every few years, Glenullin remaining at intermediate level for two years running, or a club like Cullyhanna being relegated to intermediate via their league position, ignoring the fact they'd played 90% of the league without their county representatives. This then gave them a pretty straightforward intermediate title in Armagh and a crack at Ulster, despite being a senior club at full strength. A system like Cavan's would eradicate these problems and ensure teams that win championships move up accordingly, and those that have county representation aren't relegated to a lower tier championship via league position undeservedly.
So league shouldn't matter? Ok, let Dublin play tailteann cup.. Kilkenny play Christy ring
Dublin are the All Ireland Champions. Kilkenny were in the All Ireland Final. What are you talking about?
They play Div 1. Monaghan and Tipperary then...
Monaghan are Div 1 and were in an AI Semi Final, keep searching.
It is the same principal. Div 1 team.
But not linked here, are you unable to understand that?
Yes I understand. The point is that it's unfair
How so?
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 25, 2023, 05:07:30 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:36:50 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 25, 2023, 04:34:40 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:30:13 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 04:23:38 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:18:56 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 04:17:17 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:12:18 PMQuote from: ranch on November 25, 2023, 04:04:15 PMI really don't get the issue here with Arva. They're in the junior championship because they weren't good enough to win it previously. League and championship aren't linked in some counties and that's fair enough as far I'm concerned.
I'd more so have an issue with Blackhill being a yo-yo club every few years, Glenullin remaining at intermediate level for two years running, or a club like Cullyhanna being relegated to intermediate via their league position, ignoring the fact they'd played 90% of the league without their county representatives. This then gave them a pretty straightforward intermediate title in Armagh and a crack at Ulster, despite being a senior club at full strength. A system like Cavan's would eradicate these problems and ensure teams that win championships move up accordingly, and those that have county representation aren't relegated to a lower tier championship via league position undeservedly.
So league shouldn't matter? Ok, let Dublin play tailteann cup.. Kilkenny play Christy ring
Dublin are the All Ireland Champions. Kilkenny were in the All Ireland Final. What are you talking about?
They play Div 1. Monaghan and Tipperary then...
Monaghan are Div 1 and were in an AI Semi Final, keep searching.
It is the same principal. Div 1 team.
But not linked here, are you unable to understand that?
Yes I understand. The point is that it's unfair
How so?
A team play if div 1 players better teams, better standard, better preparation. It improves them overall. That's why the structure in hurling is there. You play teams your level, to improve.
Same as Juvenile grades, you're seeded on your ability. Not on because of a out dated league and champ separation system.
Quote from: Itchy on November 25, 2023, 05:00:34 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 25, 2023, 04:32:56 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 03:14:26 PMDo Cavan people realise that the majority of counties operate their championships and leagues combined? You can lose a senior champ final in Monaghan and still be relegated.
Yes, we do realise. But as we don't do it here, League is essentially easy going. The simple fact is they're not linked, so teams don't go all out for League as they know it's Championship you go up or down in.
Do others realise they're not linked in Cavan and Arva are where they are based on Championship results? It's that simple here. Seriously, how hard is it to understand that on Championship results, Arva are where they are on merit. They were poor enough in Championship to get relegated in 2021, and to lose a Junior final last year. Comprende?
I would doubt that, I'd say majority of counties have league and championship seperate
Yeah most counties nationally it's seperate.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 05:22:35 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 25, 2023, 05:07:30 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:36:50 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 25, 2023, 04:34:40 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:30:13 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 04:23:38 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:18:56 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 04:17:17 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:12:18 PMQuote from: ranch on November 25, 2023, 04:04:15 PMI really don't get the issue here with Arva. They're in the junior championship because they weren't good enough to win it previously. League and championship aren't linked in some counties and that's fair enough as far I'm concerned.
I'd more so have an issue with Blackhill being a yo-yo club every few years, Glenullin remaining at intermediate level for two years running, or a club like Cullyhanna being relegated to intermediate via their league position, ignoring the fact they'd played 90% of the league without their county representatives. This then gave them a pretty straightforward intermediate title in Armagh and a crack at Ulster, despite being a senior club at full strength. A system like Cavan's would eradicate these problems and ensure teams that win championships move up accordingly, and those that have county representation aren't relegated to a lower tier championship via league position undeservedly.
So league shouldn't matter? Ok, let Dublin play tailteann cup.. Kilkenny play Christy ring
Dublin are the All Ireland Champions. Kilkenny were in the All Ireland Final. What are you talking about?
They play Div 1. Monaghan and Tipperary then...
Monaghan are Div 1 and were in an AI Semi Final, keep searching.
It is the same principal. Div 1 team.
But not linked here, are you unable to understand that?
Yes I understand. The point is that it's unfair
How so?
A team play if div 1 players better teams, better standard, better preparation. It improves them overall. That's why the structure in hurling is there. You play teams your level, to improve.
Same as Juvenile grades, you're seeded on your ability. Not on because of a out dated league and champ separation system.
The predictor of championship ability in Cavan is championship results.
If you want to make it league too, we'd be sending Denn (won Ulster Junior 2 years ago and good enough to get to intermediate final this year) which I presume you'd also feel was unfair.
Also don't see how you can call it "outdated" particularly when teams now don't have county players for the majority of the league, if anything separating them is a more modern school of thought.
How stupid are people, that they don't realise Derry are formatting from a 16 league to 12, hence why teams aren't going up. If Derry relegated a straight 4 teams down last year to form a 12 team League,this year's team would be considerable ahead of Glenullin. Next years Team Ballinderry, would be well ahead of this Glenullin, team. A Derry Division 1 team would walk a Ulster Junior Championship just Like Avra are doing.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 05:22:35 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 25, 2023, 05:07:30 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:36:50 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 25, 2023, 04:34:40 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:30:13 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 04:23:38 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:18:56 PMQuote from: Westside on November 25, 2023, 04:17:17 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:12:18 PMQuote from: ranch on November 25, 2023, 04:04:15 PMI really don't get the issue here with Arva. They're in the junior championship because they weren't good enough to win it previously. League and championship aren't linked in some counties and that's fair enough as far I'm concerned.
I'd more so have an issue with Blackhill being a yo-yo club every few years, Glenullin remaining at intermediate level for two years running, or a club like Cullyhanna being relegated to intermediate via their league position, ignoring the fact they'd played 90% of the league without their county representatives. This then gave them a pretty straightforward intermediate title in Armagh and a crack at Ulster, despite being a senior club at full strength. A system like Cavan's would eradicate these problems and ensure teams that win championships move up accordingly, and those that have county representation aren't relegated to a lower tier championship via league position undeservedly.
So league shouldn't matter? Ok, let Dublin play tailteann cup.. Kilkenny play Christy ring
Dublin are the All Ireland Champions. Kilkenny were in the All Ireland Final. What are you talking about?
They play Div 1. Monaghan and Tipperary then...
Monaghan are Div 1 and were in an AI Semi Final, keep searching.
It is the same principal. Div 1 team.
But not linked here, are you unable to understand that?
Yes I understand. The point is that it's unfair
How so?
A team play if div 1 players better teams, better standard, better preparation. It improves them overall. That's why the structure in hurling is there. You play teams your level, to improve.
Same as Juvenile grades, you're seeded on your ability. Not on because of a out dated league and champ separation system.
And they lost most of their games, finished bottom, and won with an ambush in a relegation playoff. They're simply not Senior standard
And I get you, but like I said before, League is not a big deal here. Clubs don't take it seriously as there is no jeopardy in it for Championship ranking. I'd agree with you if there was here, but there's not. There's no county players until any playoffs. There's been a raging debate here for years now that the League has few devalued because of this. So if your counties League has value, and you need to take it seriously, then great, fair play. That's not the case here and it's not taken seriously. Sure 2022 Senior finalists Killygarry with at least 7 county men got relegated this year. Also ran eventual champions Gowna to a replay. Do we relegate them to Intermediate next season? Come off it. You'll just have to accept League isn't the deal here, and if a team from Cavan is on their Championship, they deserve their placing on Championship results.
It was deserved that Ballyhaise won that match, ten minutes into the match a Glenullin player spat in the face of a Ballyhaise player. Unacceptable.
Quote from: full moon on November 25, 2023, 06:19:15 PMIt was deserved that Ballyhaise won that match, ten minutes into the match a Glenullin player spat in the face of a Ballyhaise player. Unacceptable.
Was that caught on camera?
Today the Sligo senior hurling champions Easkey win the Connacht junior championship.
This was given as a point today
https://x.com/RooneyMal/status/1728454983811469440?t=k3qcV4R3XV9XDKF0gTzzfQ&s=09
Maybe someone spat in the umpires eye too
Quote from: Itchy on November 25, 2023, 10:23:29 PMThis was given as a point today
https://x.com/RooneyMal/status/1728454983811469440?t=k3qcV4R3XV9XDKF0gTzzfQ&s=09
Maybe someone spat in the umpires eye too
That's as bad i've ever seen. Umpire shouldn't be allowed to do another game. Unacceptable at any level.
Thankfully it didn't matter but that was shit
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 25, 2023, 10:35:18 PMThankfully it didn't matter but that was shit
Well it did matter in a 1 point win
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 25, 2023, 11:26:31 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 25, 2023, 10:35:18 PMThankfully it didn't matter but that was shit
Well it did matter in a 1 point win
Was that the winners that scored? I thought Glenullin scored that?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 25, 2023, 11:30:38 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 25, 2023, 11:26:31 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 25, 2023, 10:35:18 PMThankfully it didn't matter but that was shit
Well it did matter in a 1 point win
Was that the winners that scored? I thought Glenullin scored that?
You are right, it was glencullen and it didn't matter in the end thankfully
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:12:18 PM[
So league shouldn't matter? Ok, let Dublin play tailteann cup.. Kilkenny play Christy ring
Exactly, league shouldn't matter.
With there being a split season it's much fairer that championship grades are based on championship performances when all clubs have their county players available. Basing it on league position is unfair, which is why we get a situation where a club like Cullyhanna win a handy intermediate championship in Armagh this year.
If they are going to be linked then counties need to take Tyrone's approach and play the majority of league games once county players are back with their clubs, which defeats the point of the season being split in the first place.
Quote from: ranch on November 26, 2023, 06:58:31 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:12:18 PM[
So league shouldn't matter? Ok, let Dublin play tailteann cup.. Kilkenny play Christy ring
Exactly, league shouldn't matter.
With there being a split season it's much fairer that championship grades are based on championship performances when all clubs have their county players available. Basing it on league position is unfair, which is why we get a situation where a club like Cullyhanna win a handy intermediate championship in Armagh this year.
If they are going to be linked then counties need to take Tyrone's approach and play the majority of league games once county players are back with their clubs, which defeats the point of the season being split in the first place.
I thought the point of the split season was that clubs didn't play when county was playing. An intercounty season, and then a club season
Quote from: ranch on November 26, 2023, 06:58:31 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:12:18 PM[
So league shouldn't matter? Ok, let Dublin play tailteann cup.. Kilkenny play Christy ring
Exactly, league shouldn't matter.
With there being a split season it's much fairer that championship grades are based on championship performances when all clubs have their county players available. Basing it on league position is unfair, which is why we get a situation where a club like Cullyhanna win a handy intermediate championship in Armagh this year.
If they are going to be linked then counties need to take Tyrone's approach and play the majority of league games once county players are back with their clubs, which defeats the point of the season being split in the first place.
Should league status not seed your championship?
Quote from: smort on November 26, 2023, 07:26:16 AMQuote from: ranch on November 26, 2023, 06:58:31 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:12:18 PM[
So league shouldn't matter? Ok, let Dublin play tailteann cup.. Kilkenny play Christy ring
Exactly, league shouldn't matter.
With there being a split season it's much fairer that championship grades are based on championship performances when all clubs have their county players available. Basing it on league position is unfair, which is why we get a situation where a club like Cullyhanna win a handy intermediate championship in Armagh this year.
If they are going to be linked then counties need to take Tyrone's approach and play the majority of league games once county players are back with their clubs, which defeats the point of the season being split in the first place.
I thought the point of the split season was that clubs didn't play when county was playing. An intercounty season, and then a club season
So if that's the case - say your county gets knocked out in mid June...
Club players get no games whatsoever at all (either league or championship) effectively until the start of July?
So you have to fit both competitions in at that stage.
If you want to lose players to the game that's a great starting point towards achieving it
Quote from: galwayman on November 26, 2023, 09:10:43 AMQuote from: smort on November 26, 2023, 07:26:16 AMQuote from: ranch on November 26, 2023, 06:58:31 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 25, 2023, 04:12:18 PM[
So league shouldn't matter? Ok, let Dublin play tailteann cup.. Kilkenny play Christy ring
Exactly, league shouldn't matter.
With there being a split season it's much fairer that championship grades are based on championship performances when all clubs have their county players available. Basing it on league position is unfair, which is why we get a situation where a club like Cullyhanna win a handy intermediate championship in Armagh this year.
If they are going to be linked then counties need to take Tyrone's approach and play the majority of league games once county players are back with their clubs, which defeats the point of the season being split in the first place.
I thought the point of the split season was that clubs didn't play when county was playing. An intercounty season, and then a club season
So if that's the case - say your county gets knocked out in mid June...
Club players get no games whatsoever at all (either league or championship) effectively until the start of July?
So you have to fit both competitions in at that stage.
If you want to lose players to the game that's a great starting point towards achieving it
I disagree. Clubs can play preseason tournaments, regional leagues, divisional competitions, friendlies, whatever in May and June
The club season was too long previously. Let players have an off season. Let them get involved in other aspects of the club... Scor, club development, fundraising, underage. Let them have a life with family and friends. Play another sport, heaven forbid!
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 08:55:20 AMShould league status not seed your championship?
No, I don't think it should. In Armagh the leagues and championships are linked. This year Shane O'Neills were competing in the senior championship having won both the intermediate championship and league in 2022.
They finished bottom of the senior league in 2023 having been without their 3 county players for basically every game.
This meant they were relegated to intermediate, unless they won the senior championship. However they were also 4th seeds when the senior championship draw was made due to their final league position, therefore further punishing them for being without their best players for the league.
In my opinion that system is much more unfair than the system in Cavan. Play leagues during the county season by all means, give lads football and a chance of winning a bit of silverware etc, but it should not in any way be linked to championship football later in the year.
Quote from: ranch on November 26, 2023, 10:12:27 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 08:55:20 AMShould league status not seed your championship?
No, I don't think it should. In Armagh the leagues and championships are linked. This year Shane O'Neills were competing in the senior championship having won both the intermediate championship and league in 2022.
They finished bottom of the senior league in 2023 having been without their 3 county players for basically every game.
This meant they were relegated to intermediate, unless they won the senior championship. However they were also 4th seeds when the senior championship draw was made due to their final league position, therefore further punishing them for being without their best players for the league.
In my opinion that system is much more unfair than the system in Cavan. Play leagues during the county season by all means, give lads football and a chance of winning a bit of silverware etc, but it should not in any way be linked to championship football later in the year.
That's an issue for Armagh. Scotstown finished bottom of the Monaghan senior league this year. The bottom 4 play in relegation play offs with 1 team then losing the final play off.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 10:52:01 AMQuote from: ranch on November 26, 2023, 10:12:27 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 08:55:20 AMShould league status not seed your championship?
No, I don't think it should. In Armagh the leagues and championships are linked. This year Shane O'Neills were competing in the senior championship having won both the intermediate championship and league in 2022.
They finished bottom of the senior league in 2023 having been without their 3 county players for basically every game.
This meant they were relegated to intermediate, unless they won the senior championship. However they were also 4th seeds when the senior championship draw was made due to their final league position, therefore further punishing them for being without their best players for the league.
In my opinion that system is much more unfair than the system in Cavan. Play leagues during the county season by all means, give lads football and a chance of winning a bit of silverware etc, but it should not in any way be linked to championship football later in the year.
That's an issue for Armagh. Scotstown finished bottom of the Monaghan senior league this year. The bottom 4 play in relegation play offs with 1 team then losing the final play off.
Of course it's an issue for Armagh.
But it's an example of why both league and championship should remain separate in my opinion. If they are to be linked then it's only fair that clubs have their county players available throughout the league.
Shanes also won the intermediate league last year without their county men for the bulk of it. League and championship linked is the only sensible way.
Quote from: ranch on November 26, 2023, 11:10:49 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 10:52:01 AMQuote from: ranch on November 26, 2023, 10:12:27 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 08:55:20 AMShould league status not seed your championship?
No, I don't think it should. In Armagh the leagues and championships are linked. This year Shane O'Neills were competing in the senior championship having won both the intermediate championship and league in 2022.
They finished bottom of the senior league in 2023 having been without their 3 county players for basically every game.
This meant they were relegated to intermediate, unless they won the senior championship. However they were also 4th seeds when the senior championship draw was made due to their final league position, therefore further punishing them for being without their best players for the league.
In my opinion that system is much more unfair than the system in Cavan. Play leagues during the county season by all means, give lads football and a chance of winning a bit of silverware etc, but it should not in any way be linked to championship football later in the year.
That's an issue for Armagh. Scotstown finished bottom of the Monaghan senior league this year. The bottom 4 play in relegation play offs with 1 team then losing the final play off.
Of course it's an issue for Armagh.
But it's an example of why both league and championship should remain separate in my opinion. If they are to be linked then it's only fair that clubs have their county players available throughout the league.
I don't understand how it's unfair. Every senior club was without their county players. Get this, some clubs have even more county players than Shanes. No matter what way you look at it, Shane O'Neill's are an intermediate standard club that are just shy 1/2 marquee players of being a very decent senior side. They won the league (without co players) and championship double and had a crack at senior. Even with the county players, would they have stayed up? Probably not.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 25, 2023, 11:30:38 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 25, 2023, 11:26:31 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 25, 2023, 10:35:18 PMThankfully it didn't matter but that was shit
Well it did matter in a 1 point win
Was that the winners that scored? I thought Glenullin scored that?
Yep, apologies, thought it was the other way
Quote from: general_lee on November 26, 2023, 12:03:23 PMQuote from: ranch on November 26, 2023, 11:10:49 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 10:52:01 AMQuote from: ranch on November 26, 2023, 10:12:27 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 08:55:20 AMShould league status not seed your championship?
No, I don't think it should. In Armagh the leagues and championships are linked. This year Shane O'Neills were competing in the senior championship having won both the intermediate championship and league in 2022.
They finished bottom of the senior league in 2023 having been without their 3 county players for basically every game.
This meant they were relegated to intermediate, unless they won the senior championship. However they were also 4th seeds when the senior championship draw was made due to their final league position, therefore further punishing them for being without their best players for the league.
In my opinion that system is much more unfair than the system in Cavan. Play leagues during the county season by all means, give lads football and a chance of winning a bit of silverware etc, but it should not in any way be linked to championship football later in the year.
That's an issue for Armagh. Scotstown finished bottom of the Monaghan senior league this year. The bottom 4 play in relegation play offs with 1 team then losing the final play off.
Of course it's an issue for Armagh.
But it's an example of why both league and championship should remain separate in my opinion. If they are to be linked then it's only fair that clubs have their county players available throughout the league.
I don't understand how it's unfair. Every senior club was without their county players. Get this, some clubs have even more county players than Shanes. No matter what way you look at it, Shane O'Neill's are an intermediate standard club that are just shy 1/2 marquee players of being a very decent senior side. They won the league (without co players) and championship double and had a crack at senior. Even with the county players, would they have stayed up? Probably not.
If you think it's a fair system then that's fine. Personally I think the system we have in Armagh is pretty poor.
I'm not from Shane O'Neills so couldn't care less if they win or lose, but I do want the championship system to be as fair as possible. The fact every team is missing players at senior level during the league doesn't make it a fair system as it clearly affects some clubs a lot more than others. A change to the seeding system at least would be a step in the right direction (maybe have 1a as the top seeds and 1b as the second seeds, rather than dividing them into 4 pots).
In my opinion the best way to run it is by having championship winners go up to the next grade and have relegation playoffs to decide which team drops down. I don't see how this would be any less fair than what we have in place now.
I'd also be keen for a return to straight knock out championship football, and an extra grade added below the junior.
Just my own personal opinions, and it's clear from reading this forum that most people now want leagues and championships linked closely, so I doubt I'll get my way any time soon.
Quote from: ranch on November 26, 2023, 01:03:37 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 26, 2023, 12:03:23 PMQuote from: ranch on November 26, 2023, 11:10:49 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 10:52:01 AMQuote from: ranch on November 26, 2023, 10:12:27 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 08:55:20 AMShould league status not seed your championship?
No, I don't think it should. In Armagh the leagues and championships are linked. This year Shane O'Neills were competing in the senior championship having won both the intermediate championship and league in 2022.
They finished bottom of the senior league in 2023 having been without their 3 county players for basically every game.
This meant they were relegated to intermediate, unless they won the senior championship. However they were also 4th seeds when the senior championship draw was made due to their final league position, therefore further punishing them for being without their best players for the league.
In my opinion that system is much more unfair than the system in Cavan. Play leagues during the county season by all means, give lads football and a chance of winning a bit of silverware etc, but it should not in any way be linked to championship football later in the year.
That's an issue for Armagh. Scotstown finished bottom of the Monaghan senior league this year. The bottom 4 play in relegation play offs with 1 team then losing the final play off.
Of course it's an issue for Armagh.
But it's an example of why both league and championship should remain separate in my opinion. If they are to be linked then it's only fair that clubs have their county players available throughout the league.
I don't understand how it's unfair. Every senior club was without their county players. Get this, some clubs have even more county players than Shanes. No matter what way you look at it, Shane O'Neill's are an intermediate standard club that are just shy 1/2 marquee players of being a very decent senior side. They won the league (without co players) and championship double and had a crack at senior. Even with the county players, would they have stayed up? Probably not.
If you think it's a fair system then that's fine. Personally I think the system we have in Armagh is pretty poor.
I'm not from Shane O'Neills so couldn't care less if they win or lose, but I do want the championship system to be as fair as possible. The fact every team is missing players at senior level during the league doesn't make it a fair system as it clearly affects some clubs a lot more than others. A change to the seeding system at least would be a step in the right direction (maybe have 1a as the top seeds and 1b as the second seeds, rather than dividing them into 4 pots).
In my opinion the best way to run it is by having championship winners go up to the next grade and have relegation playoffs to decide which team drops down. I don't see how this would be any less fair than what we have in place now.
I'd also be keen for a return to straight knock out championship football, and an extra grade added below the junior.
Just my own personal opinions, and it's clear from reading this forum that most people now want leagues and championships linked closely, so I doubt I'll get my way any time soon.
We had league and championship unaligned before the current system, with Division 1 teams playing intermediate and Division 2 teams playing Junior similar to our Breffni friends.
Realistically losing county players doesn't overly impact the majority of clubs in league football except junior and weaker intermediate teams. Cullyhanna have held their own in senior league football for about 15 years minus their county men until they were relegated last year and Shane O'Neill's won the intermediate league last year minus theirs.
I'm not a big fan of relegation play offs at championship level - harsh way to do things especially for a one-off match, at least over the course of a season if you finish bottom of the league you've no complaints.
I do agree in Armagh we could do with a Junior B competition — should also probably reduce senior and intermediate to 12 clubs rather than 16. I agree on a return to straight knock out as well.
Toreen win 3 in a row Connaught Intermediate hurling championships, are the folk saying Glenullin should go into Derry senior going to comment on that?
Hack of that pitch in Blaney. Bog with massive patches of parts with no grass.
Quote from: Brendan on November 26, 2023, 04:08:39 PMToreen win 3 in a row Connaught Intermediate hurling championships, are the folk saying Glenullin should go into Derry senior going to comment on that?
Yes that is wrong also.
Very different in the hurling. St Thomas's would hammer them.
Quote from: Brendan on November 26, 2023, 04:08:39 PMToreen win 3 in a row Connaught Intermediate hurling championships, are the folk saying Glenullin should go into Derry senior going to comment on that?
Of course they should be promoted and there should be a connacht senior club hurling competition next year. Kildare, Westmeath, Carlow all have club representatives at senior Leinster club hurling level.
Big win for Cullyhanna against Liatroim who are a decent side. Fancy Cullyhanna now to beat Division 1 Ballyhaise in the Final.
Quote from: clarshack on November 26, 2023, 05:25:53 PMBig win for Cullyhanna against Liatroim who are a decent side. Fancy Cullyhanna now to beat Division 1 Ballyhaise in the Final.
Don't worry the Cavan folk will tell you that the league doesn't matter and playing div 1 football is no advantage.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 05:46:45 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 26, 2023, 05:25:53 PMBig win for Cullyhanna against Liatroim who are a decent side. Fancy Cullyhanna now to beat Division 1 Ballyhaise in the Final.
Don't worry the Cavan folk will tell you that the league doesn't matter and playing div 1 football is no advantage.
Speaking to Armagh lads I know they say Cullyhanna were a senior team playing intermediate.
Quote from: mrdeeds on November 26, 2023, 05:58:28 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 05:46:45 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 26, 2023, 05:25:53 PMBig win for Cullyhanna against Liatroim who are a decent side. Fancy Cullyhanna now to beat Division 1 Ballyhaise in the Final.
Don't worry the Cavan folk will tell you that the league doesn't matter and playing div 1 football is no advantage.
Speaking to Armagh lads I know they say Cullyhanna were a senior team playing intermediate.
The team that was relegated was definitely intermediate standard. They've got a load of lads back, younger lad improved big time and are now on their way back to senior. Although senior in Armagh doesn't mean much sure Cross walked Armagh 2 years in a row and were embarrassed in Ulster.
Quote from: mrdeeds on November 26, 2023, 05:58:28 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 05:46:45 PMQuote from: clarshack on November 26, 2023, 05:25:53 PMBig win for Cullyhanna against Liatroim who are a decent side. Fancy Cullyhanna now to beat Division 1 Ballyhaise in the Final.
Don't worry the Cavan folk will tell you that the league doesn't matter and playing div 1 football is no advantage.
Speaking to Armagh lads I know they say Cullyhanna were a senior team playing intermediate.
They played Div 2A this year in Armagh which is their 3rd Division. They lost the final of it. They had to win the champ then to be promoted.
Massive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
Quote from: ranch on November 26, 2023, 10:12:27 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 08:55:20 AMShould league status not seed your championship?
No, I don't think it should. In Armagh the leagues and championships are linked. This year Shane O'Neills were competing in the senior championship having won both the intermediate championship and league in 2022.
They finished bottom of the senior league in 2023 having been without their 3 county players for basically every game.
This meant they were relegated to intermediate, unless they won the senior championship. However they were also 4th seeds when the senior championship draw was made due to their final league position, therefore further punishing them for being without their best players for the league.
In my opinion that system is much more unfair than the system in Cavan. Play leagues during the county season by all means, give lads football and a chance of winning a bit of silverware etc, but it should not in any way be linked to championship football later in the year.
They finished second bottom in intermediate and finished as fourth seeds for the championship.clan na Gael won last game to finish as third seeds and got to the final.shanes are an intermediate side even with county men should lost the intermediate final year before.lost all games in championship aggregate of minus 23.there would have been no one in Armagh hoping to avoid Shane's from pot 4 of championship.
Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
They play in the 3rd Division in Armagh. Ballyhaise Div 1.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 08:08:33 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
They play in the 3rd Division in Armagh. Ballyhaise Div 1.
having saw the ballyhaise game yesterday would expect cullyhanna to beat them.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 08:08:33 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
They play in the 3rd Division in Armagh. Ballyhaise Div 1.
Are you ok fella? You're quite obsessed on this...
Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
The team that finished second in the third tier of league football in the Armagh leagues.
Cullyhanna were the 18th placed team in the Armagh league structures this season. No cooking the books in Armagh, unlike Cavan.
Quote from: general_lee on November 26, 2023, 09:26:45 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
Cullyhanna were the 18th placed team in the Armagh league structures this season. No cooking the books in Armagh, unlike Cavan.
Do you think if every club in Armagh are at full strength that they're the 18th best team in the county? Personally, I don't. They would push, and probably beat, teams such as Mullabawn, Dromintee, Silverbridge. The fact they're in intermediate due to a poor league performance in 2022, when they were short of their best players, shows why league and championship shouldn't be linked in my view.
Good luck to Cullyhanna in the final, it would be great to see them get a crack at an all Ireland.
Sure wasn't it a Cavan club who appealed against Ballinderry fielding an underage player in the Ulster Minor Club years back?
And also against a Monaghan club winning the Ulster Junior about 10 years ago for playing an underage player.
And have they not played amalagmation teams in the St. Paul's Minor tournament in Belfast also?
Maybe other counties do it also?
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 26, 2023, 09:21:10 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 08:08:33 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
They play in the 3rd Division in Armagh. Ballyhaise Div 1.
Are you ok fella? You're quite obsessed on this...
Well you are defending that it's totally fine that your 3 representatives in Ulster this year play Div 1 football in Cavan. You can talk all you want but think about that .....
Quote from: ranch on November 26, 2023, 10:08:55 PMAnd also against a Monaghan club winning the Ulster Junior about 10 years ago for playing an underage player.
Corduff played an U-16 player in the 2010 Ulster Junior Final and were stripped of their title. Ridiculous rule to appeal but that's what happens. Swanlinbar ended up getting a hiding from the Kerry Champions. Some sort of Karma I Suppose.
Quote from: ranch on November 26, 2023, 09:39:59 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 26, 2023, 09:26:45 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
Cullyhanna were the 18th placed team in the Armagh league structures this season. No cooking the books in Armagh, unlike Cavan.
Do you think if every club in Armagh are at full strength that they're the 18th best team in the county? Personally, I don't. They would push, and probably beat, teams such as Mullabawn, Dromintee, Silverbridge. The fact they're in intermediate due to a poor league performance in 2022, when they were short of their best players, shows why league and championship shouldn't be linked in my view.
Good luck to Cullyhanna in the final, it would be great to see them get a crack at an all Ireland.
At full strength they're a similar standard of about 10 teams in Armagh who'd all beat each other on any given day. They were short their best players for near 15 years and stayed senior that entire time. They'd a few extra men unavailable for one reason or another last year and got relegated. Not like any eyebrows were raised, they then lost 4 times in the 3rd tier of the leagues this year which IMO shows that was their level.
Some amount of drivel been posted here about a county and teams that have been playing within the rules of competitions.
Quote from: general_lee on November 27, 2023, 07:46:51 AMQuote from: ranch on November 26, 2023, 09:39:59 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 26, 2023, 09:26:45 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
Cullyhanna were the 18th placed team in the Armagh league structures this season. No cooking the books in Armagh, unlike Cavan.
Do you think if every club in Armagh are at full strength that they're the 18th best team in the county? Personally, I don't. They would push, and probably beat, teams such as Mullabawn, Dromintee, Silverbridge. The fact they're in intermediate due to a poor league performance in 2022, when they were short of their best players, shows why league and championship shouldn't be linked in my view.
Good luck to Cullyhanna in the final, it would be great to see them get a crack at an all Ireland.
At full strength they're a similar standard of about 10 teams in Armagh who'd all beat each other on any given day. They were short their best players for near 15 years and stayed senior that entire time. They'd a few extra men unavailable for one reason or another last year and got relegated. Not like any eyebrows were raised, they then lost 4 times in the 3rd tier of the leagues this year which IMO shows that was their level.
Fair enough, if you're happy with the system in place then that's grand. We'll have to agree to disagree as there's little value in me repeating myself as to why I don't like it, I doubt I'll change your mind, or vice versa.
Quote from: clarshack on November 26, 2023, 11:49:03 PMQuote from: ranch on November 26, 2023, 10:08:55 PMAnd also against a Monaghan club winning the Ulster Junior about 10 years ago for playing an underage player.
Corduff played an U-16 player in the 2010 Ulster Junior Final and were stripped of their title. Ridiculous rule to appeal but that's what happens. Swanlinbar ended up getting a hiding from the Kerry Champions. Some sort of Karma I Suppose.
Yes Corduff should have been allowed break that rule and everyone should have ignored it. Swanlinbar had some good U16s too that year but they adhered to the rule but I agree that Corduff should be allowed break the rule and Swad should be made stick to it. Some quare whingy feckers on this thread.
Quote from: general_lee on November 26, 2023, 09:26:45 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
The team that finished second in the third tier of league football in the Armagh leagues.
Cullyhanna were the 18th placed team in the Armagh league structures this season. No cooking the books in Armagh, unlike Cavan.
Other counties are cooking the books. Sending senior and intermediate championship sides to intermediate and junior Ulster Competitions because of meaningless league standing.
You'll not catch us sending Killygarry to Intermediate or Denn back to junior because of their standing in a second rate competition.
We never linked league and championship. Other counties too used to walking over Cavan sides in Ulster, don't have it all their own way for a few years and cry foul.
Quote from: Westside on November 27, 2023, 08:35:12 AMQuote from: general_lee on November 26, 2023, 09:26:45 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
The team that finished second in the third tier of league football in the Armagh leagues.
Cullyhanna were the 18th placed team in the Armagh league structures this season. No cooking the books in Armagh, unlike Cavan.
Other counties are cooking the books. Sending senior and intermediate championship sides to intermediate and junior Ulster Competitions because of meaningless league standing.
You'll not catch us sending Killygarry to Intermediate or Denn back to junior because of their standing in a second rate competition.
We never linked league and championship. Other counties too used to walking over Cavan sides in Ulster, don't have it all their own way for a few years and cry foul.
Please give examples
Quote from: general_lee on November 27, 2023, 07:46:51 AMQuote from: ranch on November 26, 2023, 09:39:59 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 26, 2023, 09:26:45 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
Cullyhanna were the 18th placed team in the Armagh league structures this season. No cooking the books in Armagh, unlike Cavan.
Do you think if every club in Armagh are at full strength that they're the 18th best team in the county? Personally, I don't. They would push, and probably beat, teams such as Mullabawn, Dromintee, Silverbridge. The fact they're in intermediate due to a poor league performance in 2022, when they were short of their best players, shows why league and championship shouldn't be linked in my view.
Good luck to Cullyhanna in the final, it would be great to see them get a crack at an all Ireland.
At full strength they're a similar standard of about 10 teams in Armagh who'd all beat each other on any given day. They were short their best players for near 15 years and stayed senior that entire time. They'd a few extra men unavailable for one reason or another last year and got relegated. Not like any eyebrows were raised, they then lost 4 times in the 3rd tier of the leagues this year which IMO shows that was their level.
In fairness they suffered most of their league defeats with the 3 county men away. They turned into a different team after Armagh were knocked out this summer; at intermediate level the county players make such a difference - as you would hope / expect.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 08:46:42 AMQuote from: Westside on November 27, 2023, 08:35:12 AMQuote from: general_lee on November 26, 2023, 09:26:45 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
The team that finished second in the third tier of league football in the Armagh leagues.
Cullyhanna were the 18th placed team in the Armagh league structures this season. No cooking the books in Armagh, unlike Cavan.
Other counties are cooking the books. Sending senior and intermediate championship sides to intermediate and junior Ulster Competitions because of meaningless league standing.
You'll not catch us sending Killygarry to Intermediate or Denn back to junior because of their standing in a second rate competition.
We never linked league and championship. Other counties too used to walking over Cavan sides in Ulster, don't have it all their own way for a few years and cry foul.
Please give examples
Are you doubting that teams have ended up going down a championship grade because of league standing?
Quote from: Westside on November 27, 2023, 09:17:44 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 08:46:42 AMQuote from: Westside on November 27, 2023, 08:35:12 AMQuote from: general_lee on November 26, 2023, 09:26:45 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
The team that finished second in the third tier of league football in the Armagh leagues.
Cullyhanna were the 18th placed team in the Armagh league structures this season. No cooking the books in Armagh, unlike Cavan.
Other counties are cooking the books. Sending senior and intermediate championship sides to intermediate and junior Ulster Competitions because of meaningless league standing.
You'll not catch us sending Killygarry to Intermediate or Denn back to junior because of their standing in a second rate competition.
We never linked league and championship. Other counties too used to walking over Cavan sides in Ulster, don't have it all their own way for a few years and cry foul.
Please give examples
Are you doubting that teams have ended up going down a championship grade because of league standing?
It's how it should be. If you ain't good enough you ain't good enough,none of this oh we are a senior champ team but the league dosnt matter. Swallow your pride.
Grand so we'd be sending Denn (Div 3 this year, won Ulster Junior 2 years ago and intermediate finalists this year) and Killygarry (top 4 senior team, brought Gowna to a replay this year, will be playing Div 2 next year).
To be clear, you're happy with that?
Quote from: Westside on November 27, 2023, 09:45:31 AMGrand so we'd be sending Denn (Div 3 this year, won Ulster Junior 2 years ago and intermediate finalists this year) and Killygarry (top 4 senior team, brought Gowna to a replay this year, will be playing Div 2 next year).
To be clear, you're happy with that?
Yes providing they win their appropriate championship. If Denn div 3, won the junior champ. Killygarry the same, win the intermediate champ and you send the right.
Arva stroll to a Ulster junior championship, pretends to be shocked...
Quote from: ranch on November 26, 2023, 09:39:59 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 26, 2023, 09:26:45 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
Cullyhanna were the 18th placed team in the Armagh league structures this season. No cooking the books in Armagh, unlike Cavan.
Do you think if every club in Armagh are at full strength that they're the 18th best team in the county? Personally, I don't. They would push, and probably beat, teams such as Mullabawn, Dromintee, Silverbridge. The fact they're in intermediate due to a poor league performance in 2022, when they were short of their best players, shows why league and championship shouldn't be linked in my view.
Good luck to Cullyhanna in the final, it would be great to see them get a crack at an all Ireland.
They've been poor in the league for a few years and deservedly relegated. Didn't do much in the senior championship either in those years. They've got the house in order now and would expect them to go well in 1B next year and be one of the teams to challenge Cross.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 10:34:48 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 26, 2023, 09:21:10 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 08:08:33 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
They play in the 3rd Division in Armagh. Ballyhaise Div 1.
Are you ok fella? You're quite obsessed on this...
Well you are defending that it's totally fine that your 3 representatives in Ulster this year play Div 1 football in Cavan. You can talk all you want but think about that .....
It has been explained to you many times that they are unlinked here, and that clubs are in the Championship they are in on merit. Like how Arva got relegated from Intermediate in 2021 and losing the Junior final last year means they were not good enough before this as their Championship form showed. Your inability to grasp simple facts and coming crying on here is very weird
Quote from: clarshack on November 26, 2023, 11:49:03 PMQuote from: ranch on November 26, 2023, 10:08:55 PMAnd also against a Monaghan club winning the Ulster Junior about 10 years ago for playing an underage player.
Corduff played an U-16 player in the 2010 Ulster Junior Final and were stripped of their title. Ridiculous rule to appeal but that's what happens. Swanlinbar ended up getting a hiding from the Kerry Champions. Some sort of Karma I Suppose.
So clubs should be allowed break the rules willy nilly? From memory, Swanlinbar were down quite a lot of players, and had some good U16 players but did not pick them as thems the rules. Corduff broke it and got benefit from it. What exactly is your point here?
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 27, 2023, 10:22:13 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 10:34:48 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 26, 2023, 09:21:10 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 08:08:33 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
They play in the 3rd Division in Armagh. Ballyhaise Div 1.
Are you ok fella? You're quite obsessed on this...
Well you are defending that it's totally fine that your 3 representatives in Ulster this year play Div 1 football in Cavan. You can talk all you want but think about that .....
It has been explained to you many times that they are unlinked here, and that clubs are in the Championship they are in on merit. Like how Arva got relegated from Intermediate in 2021 and losing the Junior final last year means they were not good enough before this as their Championship form showed. Your inability to grasp simple facts and coming crying on here is very weird
Do you not think playing div 1 football gives them an unfair advantage? You are the one not seeing the full picture here
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 10:33:29 AMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 27, 2023, 10:22:13 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 10:34:48 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 26, 2023, 09:21:10 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 08:08:33 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
They play in the 3rd Division in Armagh. Ballyhaise Div 1.
Are you ok fella? You're quite obsessed on this...
Well you are defending that it's totally fine that your 3 representatives in Ulster this year play Div 1 football in Cavan. You can talk all you want but think about that .....
It has been explained to you many times that they are unlinked here, and that clubs are in the Championship they are in on merit. Like how Arva got relegated from Intermediate in 2021 and losing the Junior final last year means they were not good enough before this as their Championship form showed. Your inability to grasp simple facts and coming crying on here is very weird
Do you not think playing div 1 football gives them an unfair advantage? You are the one not seeing the full picture here
No more than playing Senior Championship one year and getting on fine but being relegated because of your league position and playing intermediate the following year.
And certainly less than winning the intermediate in 2022 and playing in it again the following year.
Quote from: Westside on November 27, 2023, 10:50:44 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 10:33:29 AMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 27, 2023, 10:22:13 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 10:34:48 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 26, 2023, 09:21:10 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 08:08:33 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
They play in the 3rd Division in Armagh. Ballyhaise Div 1.
Are you ok fella? You're quite obsessed on this...
Well you are defending that it's totally fine that your 3 representatives in Ulster this year play Div 1 football in Cavan. You can talk all you want but think about that .....
It has been explained to you many times that they are unlinked here, and that clubs are in the Championship they are in on merit. Like how Arva got relegated from Intermediate in 2021 and losing the Junior final last year means they were not good enough before this as their Championship form showed. Your inability to grasp simple facts and coming crying on here is very weird
Do you not think playing div 1 football gives them an unfair advantage? You are the one not seeing the full picture here
No more than playing Senior Championship one year and getting on fine but being relegated because of your league position and playing intermediate the following year.
And certainly less than winning the intermediate in 2022 and playing in it again the following year.
We'll take your league seriously so. County teams do... it's a similar system.
Seen that the Ulster Junior Final is over and Congratulations to Arva on an well deserved win it's probably time for some of ye to take a break on debating the structures of Cavan club football.
It has been going on now for near 2 months and ye are only going around in circles.
It can all be done again next year prior to Division 1 Knockbride playing the first round of the Ulster Junior Championship.
Classy from Bradley. Such bloody soar losers
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2023/11/26/news/ballyhaise_hold_on_to_book_ulster_final_spot_after_narrow_win_over_glenullin-3801378/
Ref allowed Ballyhaise to be much more physical in the tackle than Glenullin in the 2nd half
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 10:58:00 AMQuote from: Westside on November 27, 2023, 10:50:44 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 10:33:29 AMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 27, 2023, 10:22:13 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 10:34:48 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 26, 2023, 09:21:10 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 08:08:33 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
They play in the 3rd Division in Armagh. Ballyhaise Div 1.
Are you ok fella? You're quite obsessed on this...
Well you are defending that it's totally fine that your 3 representatives in Ulster this year play Div 1 football in Cavan. You can talk all you want but think about that .....
It has been explained to you many times that they are unlinked here, and that clubs are in the Championship they are in on merit. Like how Arva got relegated from Intermediate in 2021 and losing the Junior final last year means they were not good enough before this as their Championship form showed. Your inability to grasp simple facts and coming crying on here is very weird
Do you not think playing div 1 football gives them an unfair advantage? You are the one not seeing the full picture here
No more than playing Senior Championship one year and getting on fine but being relegated because of your league position and playing intermediate the following year.
And certainly less than winning the intermediate in 2022 and playing in it again the following year.
We'll take your league seriously so. County teams do... it's a similar system.
No. Strong teams in lower grades will happen regardless so we'll keep our current structure.
Quote from: JoG2 on November 27, 2023, 11:07:56 AMRef allowed Ballyhaise to be much more physical in the tackle than Glenullin in the 2nd half
He also allowed Glenullin to kick the ball much more to the outside of the post and still get a point.
Quote from: ranch on November 25, 2023, 04:04:15 PMI really don't get the issue here with Arva. They're in the junior championship because they weren't good enough to win it previously. League and championship aren't linked in some counties and that's fair enough as far I'm concerned.
I'd more so have an issue with Blackhill being a yo-yo club every few years, Glenullin remaining at intermediate level for two years running, or a club like Cullyhanna being relegated to intermediate via their league position, ignoring the fact they'd played 90% of the league without their county representatives. This then gave them a pretty straightforward intermediate title in Armagh and a crack at Ulster, despite being a senior club at full strength. A system like Cavan's would eradicate these problems and ensure teams that win championships move up accordingly, and those that have county representation aren't relegated to a lower tier championship via league position undeservedly.
Spot on
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 10:33:29 AMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 27, 2023, 10:22:13 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 10:34:48 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 26, 2023, 09:21:10 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 08:08:33 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
They play in the 3rd Division in Armagh. Ballyhaise Div 1.
Are you ok fella? You're quite obsessed on this...
Well you are defending that it's totally fine that your 3 representatives in Ulster this year play Div 1 football in Cavan. You can talk all you want but think about that .....
It has been explained to you many times that they are unlinked here, and that clubs are in the Championship they are in on merit. Like how Arva got relegated from Intermediate in 2021 and losing the Junior final last year means they were not good enough before this as their Championship form showed. Your inability to grasp simple facts and coming crying on here is very weird
Do you not think playing div 1 football gives them an unfair advantage? You are the one not seeing the full picture here
I don't think you are buddy. As already explained to you (again) League is not taken seriously. It's actually been a big debate here in Cavan that the League has been devalued as it is not taken seriously. You playn 12 rounds with no county players, and players just do not go all in on it as it is not linked. They do go all in on Championship. I cannot understand how you cannot process this. If they were linked and teams needed to go full bore for League, I'd agree with you. But they don't. No team is killing themselves for League placings here, so it is not the driver. The teams you are complaining about got where they are by their Championship performances. I cannot understand how you would judge them on meaningless League matches, but not on actual championship results. Like tell me which results you would rather believe? A League with no county players that is not taken seriously, or Championship which is?
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 10:58:00 AMQuote from: Westside on November 27, 2023, 10:50:44 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 10:33:29 AMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 27, 2023, 10:22:13 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 10:34:48 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 26, 2023, 09:21:10 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 08:08:33 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
They play in the 3rd Division in Armagh. Ballyhaise Div 1.
Are you ok fella? You're quite obsessed on this...
Well you are defending that it's totally fine that your 3 representatives in Ulster this year play Div 1 football in Cavan. You can talk all you want but think about that .....
It has been explained to you many times that they are unlinked here, and that clubs are in the Championship they are in on merit. Like how Arva got relegated from Intermediate in 2021 and losing the Junior final last year means they were not good enough before this as their Championship form showed. Your inability to grasp simple facts and coming crying on here is very weird
Do you not think playing div 1 football gives them an unfair advantage? You are the one not seeing the full picture here
No more than playing Senior Championship one year and getting on fine but being relegated because of your league position and playing intermediate the following year.
And certainly less than winning the intermediate in 2022 and playing in it again the following year.
We'll take your league seriously so. County teams do... it's a similar system.
Maybe, but it's not so you're just going to have to deal with that. In future if they do, then we'll go forward with that. However, the facts remain that league is not taken as seriously here, and the Championships the clubs were in, they deserved to be there on prior results which were taken seriously. Try to retroactively place them in different Championships based on League would be far less right.
Jeez like, it's not as if Cavan is gaming the system here. We've overall a very poor record in Ulster in all 3 Championships, and a few teams making some inroads and such isn't a systematic gaming of it. At the end of the day, Cavan sends out its 1st, 13th, and 27th best teams based on Championship results (some counties have higher ranked teams in Intermediate/Junior than those). Some years those Cavan champions are decent and go well, most years they're not. It's been the Cavan system for a long time, and a few success at Junior level recently is not saying the system is rigged or such. If anything these are the exception, not the rule. Deal with it
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 27, 2023, 11:45:49 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 10:58:00 AMQuote from: Westside on November 27, 2023, 10:50:44 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 10:33:29 AMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 27, 2023, 10:22:13 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 10:34:48 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 26, 2023, 09:21:10 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 08:08:33 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
They play in the 3rd Division in Armagh. Ballyhaise Div 1.
Are you ok fella? You're quite obsessed on this...
Well you are defending that it's totally fine that your 3 representatives in Ulster this year play Div 1 football in Cavan. You can talk all you want but think about that .....
It has been explained to you many times that they are unlinked here, and that clubs are in the Championship they are in on merit. Like how Arva got relegated from Intermediate in 2021 and losing the Junior final last year means they were not good enough before this as their Championship form showed. Your inability to grasp simple facts and coming crying on here is very weird
Do you not think playing div 1 football gives them an unfair advantage? You are the one not seeing the full picture here
No more than playing Senior Championship one year and getting on fine but being relegated because of your league position and playing intermediate the following year.
And certainly less than winning the intermediate in 2022 and playing in it again the following year.
We'll take your league seriously so. County teams do... it's a similar system.
Maybe, but it's not so you're just going to have to deal with that. In future if they do, then we'll go forward with that. However, the facts remain that league is not taken as seriously here, and the Championships the clubs were in, they deserved to be there on prior results which were taken seriously. Try to retroactively place them in different Championships based on League would be far less right.
Jeez like, it's not as if Cavan is gaming the system here. We've overall a very poor record in Ulster in all 3 Championships, and a few teams making some inroads and such isn't a systematic gaming of it. At the end of the day, Cavan sends out its 1st, 13th, and 27th best teams based on Championship results (some counties have higher ranked teams in Intermediate/Junior than those). Some years those Cavan champions are decent and go well, most years they're not. It's been the Cavan system for a long time, and a few success at Junior level recently is not saying the system is rigged or such. If anything these are the exception, not the rule. Deal with it
I believe Ulster council is planning to regulate with motions been brought by counties.
Your record is because of your system. Owen Lennon noted it in Kingscourt this year in an interview. How do you expect to do well in championship and develop if you take the league as Mickey Mouse.
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 27, 2023, 11:45:49 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 10:58:00 AMQuote from: Westside on November 27, 2023, 10:50:44 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 10:33:29 AMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 27, 2023, 10:22:13 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 10:34:48 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 26, 2023, 09:21:10 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 08:08:33 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
They play in the 3rd Division in Armagh. Ballyhaise Div 1.
Are you ok fella? You're quite obsessed on this...
Well you are defending that it's totally fine that your 3 representatives in Ulster this year play Div 1 football in Cavan. You can talk all you want but think about that .....
It has been explained to you many times that they are unlinked here, and that clubs are in the Championship they are in on merit. Like how Arva got relegated from Intermediate in 2021 and losing the Junior final last year means they were not good enough before this as their Championship form showed. Your inability to grasp simple facts and coming crying on here is very weird
Do you not think playing div 1 football gives them an unfair advantage? You are the one not seeing the full picture here
No more than playing Senior Championship one year and getting on fine but being relegated because of your league position and playing intermediate the following year.
And certainly less than winning the intermediate in 2022 and playing in it again the following year.
We'll take your league seriously so. County teams do... it's a similar system.
Maybe, but it's not so you're just going to have to deal with that. In future if they do, then we'll go forward with that. However, the facts remain that league is not taken as seriously here, and the Championships the clubs were in, they deserved to be there on prior results which were taken seriously. Try to retroactively place them in different Championships based on League would be far less right.
Jeez like, it's not as if Cavan is gaming the system here. We've overall a very poor record in Ulster in all 3 Championships, and a few teams making some inroads and such isn't a systematic gaming of it. At the end of the day, Cavan sends out its 1st, 13th, and 27th best teams based on Championship results (some counties have higher ranked teams in Intermediate/Junior than those). Some years those Cavan champions are decent and go well, most years they're not. It's been the Cavan system for a long time, and a few success at Junior level recently is not saying the system is rigged or such. If anything these are the exception, not the rule. Deal with it
It is the system in vast majority of counties I'm pretty sure.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 11:50:48 AMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 27, 2023, 11:45:49 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 10:58:00 AMQuote from: Westside on November 27, 2023, 10:50:44 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 10:33:29 AMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 27, 2023, 10:22:13 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 10:34:48 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 26, 2023, 09:21:10 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 26, 2023, 08:08:33 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
They play in the 3rd Division in Armagh. Ballyhaise Div 1.
Are you ok fella? You're quite obsessed on this...
Well you are defending that it's totally fine that your 3 representatives in Ulster this year play Div 1 football in Cavan. You can talk all you want but think about that .....
It has been explained to you many times that they are unlinked here, and that clubs are in the Championship they are in on merit. Like how Arva got relegated from Intermediate in 2021 and losing the Junior final last year means they were not good enough before this as their Championship form showed. Your inability to grasp simple facts and coming crying on here is very weird
Do you not think playing div 1 football gives them an unfair advantage? You are the one not seeing the full picture here
No more than playing Senior Championship one year and getting on fine but being relegated because of your league position and playing intermediate the following year.
And certainly less than winning the intermediate in 2022 and playing in it again the following year.
We'll take your league seriously so. County teams do... it's a similar system.
Maybe, but it's not so you're just going to have to deal with that. In future if they do, then we'll go forward with that. However, the facts remain that league is not taken as seriously here, and the Championships the clubs were in, they deserved to be there on prior results which were taken seriously. Try to retroactively place them in different Championships based on League would be far less right.
Jeez like, it's not as if Cavan is gaming the system here. We've overall a very poor record in Ulster in all 3 Championships, and a few teams making some inroads and such isn't a systematic gaming of it. At the end of the day, Cavan sends out its 1st, 13th, and 27th best teams based on Championship results (some counties have higher ranked teams in Intermediate/Junior than those). Some years those Cavan champions are decent and go well, most years they're not. It's been the Cavan system for a long time, and a few success at Junior level recently is not saying the system is rigged or such. If anything these are the exception, not the rule. Deal with it
I believe Ulster council is planning to regulate with motions been brought by counties.
Your record is because of your system. Owen Lennon noted it in Kingscourt this year in an interview. How do you expect to do well in championship and develop if you take the league as Mickey Mouse.
Are they? based on prior, we've seen a very hands off approach to how counties run their Championships. Hence there are so many variances from county to county. No one solution fits all, and not sure how they 'regulate' this when a county has a system that works for their number of clubs etc and how that works with the split season.
So Cavans poor record is because of our system, but our current Junior Champions who are too good is also because of our system? What?
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 27, 2023, 11:57:37 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 11:50:48 AMI believe Ulster council is planning to regulate with motions been brought by counties.
Your record is because of your system. Owen Lennon noted it in Kingscourt this year in an interview. How do you expect to do well in championship and develop if you take the league as Mickey Mouse.
Are they? based on prior, we've seen a very hands off approach to how counties run their Championships. Hence there are so many variances from county to county. No one solution fits all, and not sure how they 'regulate' this when a county has a system that works for their number of clubs etc and how that works with the split season.
So Cavans poor record is because of our system, but our current Junior Champions who are too good is also because of our system? What?
Also, how many counties are linked or unlinked? Who is the majority, or are you only using your own counties system as a guide here? Like i understand if you see what you know as better. Buit historically haven't all counties not been linked?
And what's the answer for the club players? Do we go the Tyrone system where they most of the year for county players to be free for League as well?
It's not as far away as the griping above would make you believe.
There won't be a perfect system. There won't even be a close to perfect system. You can't stop stars aligning.
Three simple measures should be easy to implement across the board:
1. When a club wins its county's IFC or JFC, for the subsequent season, they must play at a higher championship level. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
2. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 10th place or higher, then they must compete in their county's SFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
3. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 20th place or higher, then they cannot play in their county's JFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
No. 1 is a no-brainer.
Nos. 2 and 3 could run into logistics issues in smaller counties, but in those cases the ranges could be adapted accordingly.
I know I know I know that in some in counties they don't take league football seriously. But you know what? There's clubs everywhere forking out a fortune for management teams and toys all year round. The least they could do in return is try harder in league football.
Cavan posters, some good points from yourselves I'll not say different. But Killygarry / Denn are not the example to be putting forward if, as you say, they aren't trying a leg in the league all year.
Treating a league like it has no jeopardy is poor but if that's the way its always been then... we'll agree to disagree, I don't like 3 ulster reps playing Div 1 ball but I take some of your points
I can tell you I spoke to 3 lads at lunch there, from Sligo, Galway and Mayo. Their league and championship totally seperate too. Bar the couple on northern counties I haven't come across any that are linked
Quote from: thewobbler on November 27, 2023, 12:16:13 PMIt's not as far away as the griping above would make you believe.
There won't be a perfect system. There won't even be a close to perfect system. You can't stop stars aligning.
Three simple measures should be easy to implement across the board:
1. When a club wins its county's IFC or JFC, for the subsequent season, they must play at a higher championship level. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
2. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 10th place or higher, then they must compete in their county's SFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
3. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 20th place or higher, then they cannot play in their county's JFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
No. 1 is a no-brainer.
Nos. 2 and 3 could run into logistics issues in smaller counties, but in those cases the ranges could be adapted accordingly.
I know I know I know that in some in counties they don't take league football seriously. But you know what? There's clubs everywhere forking out a fortune for management teams and toys all year round. The least they could do in return is try harder in league football.
Good points but some counties obviously have more clubs. The issue I have with Cavan is they actually have 3 divisions , same as Tyrone and Monaghan.
How any Cavan man can come here and argue that it's totally fine their 3 representatives this year playing div 1 football had no bearing on the championship is talking through their hoop.
Quote from: Itchy on November 27, 2023, 12:58:20 PMI can tell you I spoke to 3 lads at lunch there, from Sligo, Galway and Mayo. Their league and championship totally seperate too. Bar the couple on northern counties I haven't come across any that are linked
Do they have junior champ teams playing div 1?
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 01:00:43 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 27, 2023, 12:58:20 PMI can tell you I spoke to 3 lads at lunch there, from Sligo, Galway and Mayo. Their league and championship totally seperate too. Bar the couple on northern counties I haven't come across any that are linked
Do they have junior champ teams playing div 1?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
As an Armagh man I like how our league and championship are linked. As for other counties, how they run their championship is up to them and none of my business, or interest tbh. When an Armagh team plays another county championship in Ulster or beyond they'll win of they're good enough.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on November 27, 2023, 09:09:01 AMQuote from: general_lee on November 27, 2023, 07:46:51 AMQuote from: ranch on November 26, 2023, 09:39:59 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 26, 2023, 09:26:45 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
Cullyhanna were the 18th placed team in the Armagh league structures this season. No cooking the books in Armagh, unlike Cavan.
Do you think if every club in Armagh are at full strength that they're the 18th best team in the county? Personally, I don't. They would push, and probably beat, teams such as Mullabawn, Dromintee, Silverbridge. The fact they're in intermediate due to a poor league performance in 2022, when they were short of their best players, shows why league and championship shouldn't be linked in my view.
Good luck to Cullyhanna in the final, it would be great to see them get a crack at an all Ireland.
At full strength they're a similar standard of about 10 teams in Armagh who'd all beat each other on any given day. They were short their best players for near 15 years and stayed senior that entire time. They'd a few extra men unavailable for one reason or another last year and got relegated. Not like any eyebrows were raised, they then lost 4 times in the 3rd tier of the leagues this year which IMO shows that was their level.
In fairness they suffered most of their league defeats with the 3 county men away. They turned into a different team after Armagh were knocked out this summer; at intermediate level the county players make such a difference - as you would hope / expect.
They lost to Culloville towards end of league with their county contingent and they lost their last league game against St Pauls with them also when they had a chance to still win the league. Culloville beat them twice and where deserving league winners.
Quote from: Itchy on November 27, 2023, 12:58:20 PMI can tell you I spoke to 3 lads at lunch there, from Sligo, Galway and Mayo. Their league and championship totally seperate too. Bar the couple on northern counties I haven't come across any that are linked
Meath are the same
I'm alm
Quote from: full moon on November 27, 2023, 01:10:54 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 27, 2023, 12:58:20 PMI can tell you I spoke to 3 lads at lunch there, from Sligo, Galway and Mayo. Their league and championship totally seperate too. Bar the couple on northern counties I haven't come across any that are linked
Meath are the same
I'm almost certain it was a Croke Park directive that resulted in the unlinking of league and championship in Galway football anyway.
Around 2011 if memory serves.
Quote from: galwayman on November 27, 2023, 01:14:13 PMI'm almQuote from: full moon on November 27, 2023, 01:10:54 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 27, 2023, 12:58:20 PMI can tell you I spoke to 3 lads at lunch there, from Sligo, Galway and Mayo. Their league and championship totally seperate too. Bar the couple on northern counties I haven't come across any that are linked
Meath are the same
I'm almost certain it was a Croke Park directive that resulted in the unlinking of league and championship in Galway football anyway.
Around 2011 if memory serves.
That's totally fine with the volume of clubs in your county. It evens out over the 5/6/divisions.
Big when you have 3 divisions, 3 championships..
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 01:00:05 PMQuote from: thewobbler on November 27, 2023, 12:16:13 PMIt's not as far away as the griping above would make you believe.
There won't be a perfect system. There won't even be a close to perfect system. You can't stop stars aligning.
Three simple measures should be easy to implement across the board:
1. When a club wins its county's IFC or JFC, for the subsequent season, they must play at a higher championship level. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
2. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 10th place or higher, then they must compete in their county's SFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
3. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 20th place or higher, then they cannot play in their county's JFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
No. 1 is a no-brainer.
Nos. 2 and 3 could run into logistics issues in smaller counties, but in those cases the ranges could be adapted accordingly.
I know I know I know that in some in counties they don't take league football seriously. But you know what? There's clubs everywhere forking out a fortune for management teams and toys all year round. The least they could do in return is try harder in league football.
Good points but some counties obviously have more clubs. The issue I have with Cavan is they actually have 3 divisions , same as Tyrone and Monaghan.
How any Cavan man can come here and argue that it's totally fine their 3 representatives this year playing div 1 football had no bearing on the championship is talking through their hoop.
Is it fair that some clubs like Kilmacud have over 5,000 members and will likely will another All Ireland?
Is it fair that some clubs can pay inter county level managers payments likely reaching 6 figures?
Is it fair that some clubs can cherrypick players from weaker clubs without sanction?
Is it fair that Glenullin the Derry champs can win the Intermediate every year and remain Intermediate for 3 years?
All of that is happening especially with some of the bigger clubs
Quote from: InnocentByStander on November 27, 2023, 09:58:13 AMArva stroll to a Ulster junior championship, pretends to be shocked...
In other provinces, people might be more likely to get behind the province winners, especially with how Kerry and Dublin are so dominant in club All Ireland
Quote from: full moon on November 27, 2023, 01:18:15 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 01:00:05 PMQuote from: thewobbler on November 27, 2023, 12:16:13 PMIt's not as far away as the griping above would make you believe.
There won't be a perfect system. There won't even be a close to perfect system. You can't stop stars aligning.
Three simple measures should be easy to implement across the board:
1. When a club wins its county's IFC or JFC, for the subsequent season, they must play at a higher championship level. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
2. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 10th place or higher, then they must compete in their county's SFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
3. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 20th place or higher, then they cannot play in their county's JFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
No. 1 is a no-brainer.
Nos. 2 and 3 could run into logistics issues in smaller counties, but in those cases the ranges could be adapted accordingly.
I know I know I know that in some in counties they don't take league football seriously. But you know what? There's clubs everywhere forking out a fortune for management teams and toys all year round. The least they could do in return is try harder in league football.
Good points but some counties obviously have more clubs. The issue I have with Cavan is they actually have 3 divisions , same as Tyrone and Monaghan.
How any Cavan man can come here and argue that it's totally fine their 3 representatives this year playing div 1 football had no bearing on the championship is talking through their hoop.
Is it fair that some clubs like Kilmacud have over 5,000 members and will likely will another All Ireland?
Is it fair that some clubs can pay inter county level managers payments likely reaching 6 figures?
Is it fair that some clubs can cherrypick players from weaker clubs without sanction?
Is it fair that Glenullin the Derry champs can win the Intermediate every year and remain Intermediate for 3 years?
All of that is happening especially with some of the bigger clubs
you cant really do muchabout the first one. It is what it is
Paying and cherry picking is something which shouldnt go on but does. Do cCP turn a blind eye?
How have they been able to do that? Surely if you win your int championship you play in senior the following year? Surely that is one which can be sorted out fairly quickly
Cill Ma Martra finished 5th in the Cork Division 1 this year
Quote from: tonto1888 on November 27, 2023, 01:28:37 PMQuote from: full moon on November 27, 2023, 01:18:15 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 01:00:05 PMQuote from: thewobbler on November 27, 2023, 12:16:13 PMIt's not as far away as the griping above would make you believe.
There won't be a perfect system. There won't even be a close to perfect system. You can't stop stars aligning.
Three simple measures should be easy to implement across the board:
1. When a club wins its county's IFC or JFC, for the subsequent season, they must play at a higher championship level. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
2. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 10th place or higher, then they must compete in their county's SFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
3. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 20th place or higher, then they cannot play in their county's JFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
No. 1 is a no-brainer.
Nos. 2 and 3 could run into logistics issues in smaller counties, but in those cases the ranges could be adapted accordingly.
I know I know I know that in some in counties they don't take league football seriously. But you know what? There's clubs everywhere forking out a fortune for management teams and toys all year round. The least they could do in return is try harder in league football.
Good points but some counties obviously have more clubs. The issue I have with Cavan is they actually have 3 divisions , same as Tyrone and Monaghan.
How any Cavan man can come here and argue that it's totally fine their 3 representatives this year playing div 1 football had no bearing on the championship is talking through their hoop.
Is it fair that some clubs like Kilmacud have over 5,000 members and will likely will another All Ireland?
Is it fair that some clubs can pay inter county level managers payments likely reaching 6 figures?
Is it fair that some clubs can cherrypick players from weaker clubs without sanction?
Is it fair that Glenullin the Derry champs can win the Intermediate every year and remain Intermediate for 3 years?
All of that is happening especially with some of the bigger clubs
you cant really do muchabout the first one. It is what it is
Paying and cherry picking is something which shouldnt go on but does. Do cCP turn a blind eye?
How have they been able to do that? Surely if you win your int championship you play in senior the following year? Surely that is one which can be sorted out fairly quickly
Derry did not promote Intermediate winners from last year or this year. Which is very unusual
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 01:00:05 PMQuote from: thewobbler on November 27, 2023, 12:16:13 PMIt's not as far away as the griping above would make you believe.
There won't be a perfect system. There won't even be a close to perfect system. You can't stop stars aligning.
Three simple measures should be easy to implement across the board:
1. When a club wins its county's IFC or JFC, for the subsequent season, they must play at a higher championship level. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
2. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 10th place or higher, then they must compete in their county's SFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
3. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 20th place or higher, then they cannot play in their county's JFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
No. 1 is a no-brainer.
Nos. 2 and 3 could run into logistics issues in smaller counties, but in those cases the ranges could be adapted accordingly.
I know I know I know that in some in counties they don't take league football seriously. But you know what? There's clubs everywhere forking out a fortune for management teams and toys all year round. The least they could do in return is try harder in league football.
Good points but some counties obviously have more clubs. The issue I have with Cavan is they actually have 3 divisions , same as Tyrone and Monaghan.
How any Cavan man can come here and argue that it's totally fine their 3 representatives this year playing div 1 football had no bearing on the championship is talking through their hoop.
How any man can come here and argue that it's totally fine for a team who lost an intermediate relegation in 2021 and a Junior final last year is good enough for Senior based solely on league is talking through their hoop.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 01:16:48 PMQuote from: galwayman on November 27, 2023, 01:14:13 PMI'm almQuote from: full moon on November 27, 2023, 01:10:54 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 27, 2023, 12:58:20 PMI can tell you I spoke to 3 lads at lunch there, from Sligo, Galway and Mayo. Their league and championship totally seperate too. Bar the couple on northern counties I haven't come across any that are linked
Meath are the same
I'm almost certain it was a Croke Park directive that resulted in the unlinking of league and championship in Galway football anyway.
Around 2011 if memory serves.
That's totally fine with the volume of clubs in your county. It evens out over the 5/6/divisions.
Big when you have 3 divisions, 3 championships..
But not linked for numerous reasons. Please try and grasp that
Quote from: thewobbler on November 27, 2023, 12:16:13 PMIt's not as far away as the griping above would make you believe.
There won't be a perfect system. There won't even be a close to perfect system. You can't stop stars aligning.
Three simple measures should be easy to implement across the board:
1. When a club wins its county's IFC or JFC, for the subsequent season, they must play at a higher championship level. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
2. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 10th place or higher, then they must compete in their county's SFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
3. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 20th place or higher, then they cannot play in their county's JFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
No. 1 is a no-brainer.
Nos. 2 and 3 could run into logistics issues in smaller counties, but in those cases the ranges could be adapted accordingly.
I know I know I know that in some in counties they don't take league football seriously. But you know what? There's clubs everywhere forking out a fortune for management teams and toys all year round. The least they could do in return is try harder in league football.
The voice of reason.
I don't care how "seriously" clubs may or may not take their league fixtures. I refuse to believe a club that can compete with Division 1 clubs (on any level, regardless of no. of absent county players) can still be considered a junior club. It's ridiculous.
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 27, 2023, 01:49:23 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 01:16:48 PMQuote from: galwayman on November 27, 2023, 01:14:13 PMI'm almQuote from: full moon on November 27, 2023, 01:10:54 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 27, 2023, 12:58:20 PMI can tell you I spoke to 3 lads at lunch there, from Sligo, Galway and Mayo. Their league and championship totally seperate too. Bar the couple on northern counties I haven't come across any that are linked
Meath are the same
I'm almost certain it was a Croke Park directive that resulted in the unlinking of league and championship in Galway football anyway.
Around 2011 if memory serves.
That's totally fine with the volume of clubs in your county. It evens out over the 5/6/divisions.
Big when you have 3 divisions, 3 championships..
But not linked for numerous reasons. Please try and grasp that
So this year you considered Arva a junior club? Do you hear yourself?
Quote from: general_lee on November 27, 2023, 01:52:26 PMQuote from: thewobbler on November 27, 2023, 12:16:13 PMIt's not as far away as the griping above would make you believe.
There won't be a perfect system. There won't even be a close to perfect system. You can't stop stars aligning.
Three simple measures should be easy to implement across the board:
1. When a club wins its county's IFC or JFC, for the subsequent season, they must play at a higher championship level. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
2. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 10th place or higher, then they must compete in their county's SFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
3. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 20th place or higher, then they cannot play in their county's JFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
No. 1 is a no-brainer.
Nos. 2 and 3 could run into logistics issues in smaller counties, but in those cases the ranges could be adapted accordingly.
I know I know I know that in some in counties they don't take league football seriously. But you know what? There's clubs everywhere forking out a fortune for management teams and toys all year round. The least they could do in return is try harder in league football.
The voice of reason.
I don't care how "seriously" clubs may or may not take their league fixtures. I refuse to believe a club that can compete with Division 1 clubs (on any level, regardless of no. of absent county players) can still be considered a junior club. It's ridiculous.
No doubt that's a good proposal (with tweaks needed per county) if we are to blanket link leagues and Championship in every county. Which doesn't happen in the majority of counties. (sidenote: since when have we decided that linking is best way? Is it best and why? Or are proponents of it simply saying so as their county has it and it suits them to say so?)
But the salient point is not to go retrospective. The system is what it is in other counties, and we can't apply standards from some counties to others who have a different setup and planned their year based on that. For instance, if we did turn around this summer after League and say actually where you finished determines Championship, there would have been uproar when a clearly Senior team like killgarry would be intermediate. So no, we cannot say it is ridiculous. The clubs sent by the county to provincial level as winners are where they were based on results there. You cannot apply different standards for other counties leagues when it wasn't done there or the year planned out for it. You simply can't do that retroactively. So you will ahve to accept that based on results, the intermediate and junior champions were of that level. And will go up a level next year
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 01:58:29 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 27, 2023, 01:49:23 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 01:16:48 PMQuote from: galwayman on November 27, 2023, 01:14:13 PMI'm almQuote from: full moon on November 27, 2023, 01:10:54 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 27, 2023, 12:58:20 PMI can tell you I spoke to 3 lads at lunch there, from Sligo, Galway and Mayo. Their league and championship totally seperate too. Bar the couple on northern counties I haven't come across any that are linked
Meath are the same
I'm almost certain it was a Croke Park directive that resulted in the unlinking of league and championship in Galway football anyway.
Around 2011 if memory serves.
That's totally fine with the volume of clubs in your county. It evens out over the 5/6/divisions.
Big when you have 3 divisions, 3 championships..
But not linked for numerous reasons. Please try and grasp that
So this year you considered Arva a junior club? Do you hear yourself?
Yes. Got relegated from intermediate in 2021, and lost a Junior final last year. Any way you look at it, their Championship form shows they were a Junior club this year. You're trying to base an unlinked League where they finished bottom. Are you hearing yourself?
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 27, 2023, 02:03:17 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 01:58:29 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 27, 2023, 01:49:23 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 01:16:48 PMQuote from: galwayman on November 27, 2023, 01:14:13 PMI'm almQuote from: full moon on November 27, 2023, 01:10:54 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 27, 2023, 12:58:20 PMI can tell you I spoke to 3 lads at lunch there, from Sligo, Galway and Mayo. Their league and championship totally seperate too. Bar the couple on northern counties I haven't come across any that are linked
Meath are the same
I'm almost certain it was a Croke Park directive that resulted in the unlinking of league and championship in Galway football anyway.
Around 2011 if memory serves.
That's totally fine with the volume of clubs in your county. It evens out over the 5/6/divisions.
Big when you have 3 divisions, 3 championships..
But not linked for numerous reasons. Please try and grasp that
So this year you considered Arva a junior club? Do you hear yourself?
Yes. Got relegated from intermediate in 2021, and lost a Junior final last year. Any way you look at it, their Championship form shows they were a Junior club this year. You're trying to base an unlinked League where they finished bottom. Are you hearing yourself?
You a deluded individual if you're calling Arva a junior team this year end of. As the poster above states it's ridiculous.. a gaa man can not accept that Arva competed in the top division of Cavan football and can not admit they played senior league football.
Quote from: general_lee on November 27, 2023, 01:52:26 PMQuote from: thewobbler on November 27, 2023, 12:16:13 PMIt's not as far away as the griping above would make you believe.
There won't be a perfect system. There won't even be a close to perfect system. You can't stop stars aligning.
Three simple measures should be easy to implement across the board:
1. When a club wins its county's IFC or JFC, for the subsequent season, they must play at a higher championship level. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
2. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 10th place or higher, then they must compete in their county's SFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
3. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 20th place or higher, then they cannot play in their county's JFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.
No. 1 is a no-brainer.
Nos. 2 and 3 could run into logistics issues in smaller counties, but in those cases the ranges could be adapted accordingly.
I know I know I know that in some in counties they don't take league football seriously. But you know what? There's clubs everywhere forking out a fortune for management teams and toys all year round. The least they could do in return is try harder in league football.
The voice of reason.
I don't care how "seriously" clubs may or may not take their league fixtures. I refuse to believe a club that can compete with Division 1 clubs (on any level, regardless of no. of absent county players) can still be considered a junior club. It's ridiculous.
Arva are a Junior Championship side. It's not a case of some form of consideration. They have been a Junior side since the commencement of the 2022 Junior Championship.
If Arva were a Senior Championship side by virtue of winning Division 2 league which had no county players involved and surviving by winning a one off game despite being bottom of the league, that would be ridiculous.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 02:13:07 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 27, 2023, 02:03:17 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 01:58:29 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 27, 2023, 01:49:23 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 01:16:48 PMQuote from: galwayman on November 27, 2023, 01:14:13 PMI'm almQuote from: full moon on November 27, 2023, 01:10:54 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 27, 2023, 12:58:20 PMI can tell you I spoke to 3 lads at lunch there, from Sligo, Galway and Mayo. Their league and championship totally seperate too. Bar the couple on northern counties I haven't come across any that are linked
Meath are the same
I'm almost certain it was a Croke Park directive that resulted in the unlinking of league and championship in Galway football anyway.
Around 2011 if memory serves.
That's totally fine with the volume of clubs in your county. It evens out over the 5/6/divisions.
Big when you have 3 divisions, 3 championships..
But not linked for numerous reasons. Please try and grasp that
So this year you considered Arva a junior club? Do you hear yourself?
Yes. Got relegated from intermediate in 2021, and lost a Junior final last year. Any way you look at it, their Championship form shows they were a Junior club this year. You're trying to base an unlinked League where they finished bottom. Are you hearing yourself?
You a deluded individual if you're calling Arva a junior team this year end of. As the poster above states it's ridiculous.. a gaa man can not accept that Arva competed in the top division of Cavan football and can not admit they played senior league football.
Not deluded. If you cannot grasp simple concepts such as League not being linked, and Arva being a Junior team on their past Championship form, then I don't know what to tell you. Cry more. Some amount of moaning about a team who rightfully were Junior. You just have to accept it and not apply settings from others when they clearly deserved their placing there after getting relegated to Junior.
Would it not be ridiculous to change qualification status after the fact? Would that be fine or ridiculous in your eyes?
Quote from: statto on November 27, 2023, 01:06:14 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on November 27, 2023, 09:09:01 AMQuote from: general_lee on November 27, 2023, 07:46:51 AMQuote from: ranch on November 26, 2023, 09:39:59 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 26, 2023, 09:26:45 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 26, 2023, 07:56:57 PMMassive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.
I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.
Cullyhanna were the 18th placed team in the Armagh league structures this season. No cooking the books in Armagh, unlike Cavan.
Do you think if every club in Armagh are at full strength that they're the 18th best team in the county? Personally, I don't. They would push, and probably beat, teams such as Mullabawn, Dromintee, Silverbridge. The fact they're in intermediate due to a poor league performance in 2022, when they were short of their best players, shows why league and championship shouldn't be linked in my view.
Good luck to Cullyhanna in the final, it would be great to see them get a crack at an all Ireland.
At full strength they're a similar standard of about 10 teams in Armagh who'd all beat each other on any given day. They were short their best players for near 15 years and stayed senior that entire time. They'd a few extra men unavailable for one reason or another last year and got relegated. Not like any eyebrows were raised, they then lost 4 times in the 3rd tier of the leagues this year which IMO shows that was their level.
In fairness they suffered most of their league defeats with the 3 county men away. They turned into a different team after Armagh were knocked out this summer; at intermediate level the county players make such a difference - as you would hope / expect.
They lost to Culloville towards end of league with their county contingent and they lost their last league game against St Pauls with them also when they had a chance to still win the league. Culloville beat them twice and where deserving league winners.
Culloville were a serious outfit in intermediate. Think they had a few key players injured for the championship, I fancied them to run Cullyhanna close, I'd say they would have only for injuries.
I understand what is being said about Avra, and the league and championship being separate, it just seems a bit abstract that a senior league team is playing the lowest championship tier. Intermediate wouldn't be as big a shock.
Regarding Cullyhanna, they had been slowly regressing for a while this past 10 years and wouldn't have been competing consistently for senior honors. A bad year last year doomed them to intermediate, but it was always a threat of happening.
I think they will fair grand back in the senior league, but don't be fooled into thinking they are going to be swinging at the top 3/4 teams next year either.
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on November 27, 2023, 05:00:49 PMI understand what is being said about Avra, and the league and championship being separate, it just seems a bit abstract that a senior league team is playing the lowest championship tier. Intermediate wouldn't be as big a shock.
Regarding Cullyhanna, they had been slowly regressing for a while this past 10 years and wouldn't have been competing consistently for senior honors. A bad year last year doomed them to intermediate, but it was always a threat of happening.
I think they will fair grand back in the senior league, but don't be fooled into thinking they are going to be swinging at the top 3/4 teams next year either.
100% but the Cavan folk don't want to hear...
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on November 27, 2023, 05:00:49 PMI understand what is being said about Avra, and the league and championship being separate, it just seems a bit abstract that a senior league team is playing the lowest championship tier. Intermediate wouldn't be as big a shock.
Regarding Cullyhanna, they had been slowly regressing for a while this past 10 years and wouldn't have been competing consistently for senior honors. A bad year last year doomed them to intermediate, but it was always a threat of happening.
I think they will fair grand back in the senior league, but don't be fooled into thinking they are going to be swinging at the top 3/4 teams next year either.
There's nothing abstract about it. They got relegated to junior in 2021. They couldn't win it last year. They did win it this year.
To move championship grades in Cavan you need to win the grade you are in, or lose a relegation playoff in that grade. It's not complicated.
Quote from: Westside
To move championship grades in Cavan you need to win the grade you are in, or lose a relegation playoff in that grade.b]It's not complicated[/b].
It's not, but it is stupid. All three of your championship winners played in Division 1.
Quote from: general_lee on November 27, 2023, 06:02:48 PMQuote from: Westside
To move championship grades in Cavan you need to win the grade you are in, or lose a relegation playoff in that grade.b]It's not complicated[/b].
It's not, but it is stupid. All three of your championship winners played in Division 1.
"Hai but days how we do things here in cyyyyyavan"
Quote from: Maroon Manc on November 27, 2023, 11:35:36 AMQuote from: ranch on November 25, 2023, 04:04:15 PMI really don't get the issue here with Arva. They're in the junior championship because they weren't good enough to win it previously. League and championship aren't linked in some counties and that's fair enough as far I'm concerned.
I'd more so have an issue with Blackhill being a yo-yo club every few years, Glenullin remaining at intermediate level for two years running, or a club like Cullyhanna being relegated to intermediate via their league position, ignoring the fact they'd played 90% of the league without their county representatives. This then gave them a pretty straightforward intermediate title in Armagh and a crack at Ulster, despite being a senior club at full strength. A system like Cavan's would eradicate these problems and ensure teams that win championships move up accordingly, and those that have county representation aren't relegated to a lower tier championship via league position undeservedly.
Spot on
Pretty much this and I'm not from Cavan.
Seriously, the whole argument as to whether Arva are a Junior outfit is becoming tedious now. Cavan have their system and there was an anomaly where Arva had a couple of promotions but yet still failed to win the JFC, which they had every right to participate in as per the championship structures in Cavan. As I said previously, I find the Glenullin situation even more bizarre. People might have a stronger argument if Arva run away with the Cavan intermediate championship next year, but realistically is that going to happen?
What would be more stupid? To reformat our championship structures again to keep people from outside the county happy or to force relegations on teams who performed well in championship because someone else performed well in league. I could see absolutely no problem with this approach :-\ .
They could not win Junior last year, that's why they're still Junior. It's not difficult to understand. I understand it's a quirk but it's just as crazy to suggest they're a senior club because they played Division 1. They were hammered by any half decent club in the league, even by some who couldn't pick up any points in championship group stage. And the standard in Cavan is not that high to begin with.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 05:12:45 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on November 27, 2023, 05:00:49 PMI understand what is being said about Avra, and the league and championship being separate, it just seems a bit abstract that a senior league team is playing the lowest championship tier. Intermediate wouldn't be as big a shock.
Regarding Cullyhanna, they had been slowly regressing for a while this past 10 years and wouldn't have been competing consistently for senior honors. A bad year last year doomed them to intermediate, but it was always a threat of happening.
I think they will fair grand back in the senior league, but don't be fooled into thinking they are going to be swinging at the top 3/4 teams next year either.
100% but the Cavan folk don't want to hear...
Says the fella who won't hear himself. We've already said the linked idea has merit, but you can't retroactively apply that because you don't like the results in this year's Ulster Junior. Yet you won't hear that either.
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on November 27, 2023, 05:00:49 PMI understand what is being said about Avra, and the league and championship being separate, it just seems a bit abstract that a senior league team is playing the lowest championship tier. Intermediate wouldn't be as big a shock.
Regarding Cullyhanna, they had been slowly regressing for a while this past 10 years and wouldn't have been competing consistently for senior honors. A bad year last year doomed them to intermediate, but it was always a threat of happening.
I think they will fair grand back in the senior league, but don't be fooled into thinking they are going to be swinging at the top 3/4 teams next year either.
If they keep that team together they'll not be far off I reckon. Certainly would have gave Cross a better game than Clans did.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 06:14:37 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 27, 2023, 06:02:48 PMQuote from: Westside
To move championship grades in Cavan you need to win the grade you are in, or lose a relegation playoff in that grade.b]It's not complicated[/b].
It's not, but it is stupid. All three of your championship winners played in Division 1.
"Hai but days how we do things here in cyyyyyavan"
Onto piss taking now. Nice one.
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 27, 2023, 06:40:42 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 06:14:37 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 27, 2023, 06:02:48 PMQuote from: Westside
To move championship grades in Cavan you need to win the grade you are in, or lose a relegation playoff in that grade.b]It's not complicated[/b].
It's not, but it is stupid. All three of your championship winners played in Division 1.
"Hai but days how we do things here in cyyyyyavan"
Onto piss taking now. Nice one.
Well we all know what Mullahoran is famous for 😉
Wonder how Arva will do against Wandsworth Gaels on 9th December? I believe they are led by former Westmeath midfielder Daragh Daly but not sure who else plays for them. Be some craic if they had a pile of other ex county men! They beat Glasgow Gaels by 5 in the British semis which is the same margin Stewartstown beat Glasgow Gaels last year and Glasgow were no mugs.
Quote from: tintin25 on November 27, 2023, 06:28:04 PMQuote from: Maroon Manc on November 27, 2023, 11:35:36 AMQuote from: ranch on November 25, 2023, 04:04:15 PMI really don't get the issue here with Arva. They're in the junior championship because they weren't good enough to win it previously. League and championship aren't linked in some counties and that's fair enough as far I'm concerned.
I'd more so have an issue with Blackhill being a yo-yo club every few years, Glenullin remaining at intermediate level for two years running, or a club like Cullyhanna being relegated to intermediate via their league position, ignoring the fact they'd played 90% of the league without their county representatives. This then gave them a pretty straightforward intermediate title in Armagh and a crack at Ulster, despite being a senior club at full strength. A system like Cavan's would eradicate these problems and ensure teams that win championships move up accordingly, and those that have county representation aren't relegated to a lower tier championship via league position undeservedly.
Spot on
Pretty much this and I'm not from Cavan.
Seriously, the whole argument as to whether Arva are a Junior outfit is becoming tedious now. Cavan have their system and there was an anomaly where Arva had a couple of promotions but yet still failed to win the JFC, which they had every right to participate in as per the championship structures in Cavan. As I said previously, I find the Glenullin situation even more bizarre. People might have a stronger argument if Arva run away with the Cavan intermediate championship next year, but realistically is that going to happen?
Unlikey Tintin. Ballyhaise gone out of intermediate has probably levelled it out a bit, but in saying that they were perennial favourites before eventually winning this year. So it doesn't always go the way you expect. Lacken coming down were extremely poor this year but are something of an intermediate specialist. Few other teams in there will fancy a craic. So no, I wouldn't wager too much on them winning it, never mind running away with it. Like I said, the standard in Cavan is not that high. We have 40 clubs which dilutes the standard quite a bit. Couple of injuries, couple of lads going travelling or a few decent footballers coming back or coming through can drastically change the fortunes of a club for the year at that level.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 06:14:37 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 27, 2023, 06:02:48 PMQuote from: Westside
To move championship grades in Cavan you need to win the grade you are in, or lose a relegation playoff in that grade.b]It's not complicated[/b].
It's not, but it is stupid. All three of your championship winners played in Division 1.
"Hai but days how we do things here in cyyyyyavan"
Not much wonder you couldn't understand the Cavan Championship system.
Quote from: Westside on November 27, 2023, 07:06:53 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 06:14:37 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 27, 2023, 06:02:48 PMQuote from: Westside
To move championship grades in Cavan you need to win the grade you are in, or lose a relegation playoff in that grade.b]It's not complicated[/b].
It's not, but it is stupid. All three of your championship winners played in Division 1.
"Hai but days how we do things here in cyyyyyavan"
Not much wonder you couldn't understand the Cavan Championship system.
Of course I understand it. I find it ridiculous however. Find me another county whos div 1 teams play junior championship
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 07:19:32 PMQuote from: Westside on November 27, 2023, 07:06:53 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 06:14:37 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 27, 2023, 06:02:48 PMQuote from: Westside
To move championship grades in Cavan you need to win the grade you are in, or lose a relegation playoff in that grade.b]It's not complicated[/b].
It's not, but it is stupid. All three of your championship winners played in Division 1.
"Hai but days how we do things here in cyyyyyavan"
Not much wonder you couldn't understand the Cavan Championship system.
Of course I understand it. I find it ridiculous however. Find me another county whos div 1 teams play junior championship
Hard cases make for bad laws. This is a very exceptional circumstance and you don't change everything for one occurrence. What's also equally ridiculous is to state that a team relegated in 2021, lost a Junior final last year, finished bottom of Division 1, is a Senior standard team. If you line up the arguments for and against, your argument has very little going for it based on their form last few years.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 07:19:32 PMQuote from: Westside on November 27, 2023, 07:06:53 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 06:14:37 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 27, 2023, 06:02:48 PMQuote from: Westside
To move championship grades in Cavan you need to win the grade you are in, or lose a relegation playoff in that grade.b]It's not complicated[/b].
It's not, but it is stupid. All three of your championship winners played in Division 1.
"Hai but days how we do things here in cyyyyyavan"
Not much wonder you couldn't understand the Cavan Championship system.
Of course I understand it. I find it ridiculous however. Find me another county whos div 1 teams play junior championship
You were reduced to making fun of the Cavan accent. Do you really think you have any credibility on the topic any more?
Quote from: Westside on November 27, 2023, 07:45:04 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 07:19:32 PMQuote from: Westside on November 27, 2023, 07:06:53 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 06:14:37 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 27, 2023, 06:02:48 PMQuote from: Westside
To move championship grades in Cavan you need to win the grade you are in, or lose a relegation playoff in that grade.b]It's not complicated[/b].
It's not, but it is stupid. All three of your championship winners played in Division 1.
"Hai but days how we do things here in cyyyyyavan"
Not much wonder you couldn't understand the Cavan Championship system.
Of course I understand it. I find it ridiculous however. Find me another county whos div 1 teams play junior championship
You were reduced to making fun of the Cavan accent. Do you really think you have any credibility on the topic any more?
And people from mullahoran too
Sunday 10th Dec 2023
Intermediate Final
1pm
Ballyhaise v St Patrick's Cullyhanna in Castleblayney
How about we look at what counties put forward teams that do not play in their relevant Junior and Intermediate Leagues .
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 27, 2023, 08:00:09 PMHow about we look at what counties put forward teams that do not play in their relevant Junior and Intermediate Leagues .
In Cavan there aren't Senior/intermediate/junior leagues I presume? They're called division 1,2 & 3, therefore no link to the championship grades?
Nobody seems to have a problem with Drumaness playing division 3 and junior championship in Down, whilst Bosco were playing division 4 and intermediate? They have a system of championship relegation play offs and therefore there's no link between championship and league. If they adopted a linked system then Bosco might well have won a junior championship this year, but they were able to retain intermediate status by once again winning in the relegation play offs.
I find it odd that people are insistent that there should be a link between the two. Surely championship relegation play offs when clubs have all their county players available etc is a much fairer way of grading teams rather than basing it on their league form earlier in the year, in what is a essentially a secondary competition.
Quote from: ranch on November 27, 2023, 08:25:25 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on November 27, 2023, 08:00:09 PMHow about we look at what counties put forward teams that do not play in their relevant Junior and Intermediate Leagues .
In Cavan there aren't Senior/intermediate/junior leagues I presume? They're called division 1,2 & 3, therefore no link to the championship grades?
Nobody seems to have a problem with Drumaness playing division 3 and junior championship in Down, whilst Bosco were playing division 4 and intermediate? They have a system of championship relegation play offs and therefore there's no link between championship and league. If they adopted a linked system then Bosco might well have won a junior championship this year, but they were able to retain intermediate status by once again winning in the relegation play offs.
I find it odd that people are insistent that there should be a link between the two. Surely championship relegation play offs when clubs have all their county players available etc is a much fairer way of grading teams rather than basing it on their league form earlier in the year, in what is a essentially a secondary competition.
I wonder is there an argument or evidence that teams that link have better Ulster club contenders and county teams?
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 08:42:08 PMQuote from: ranch on November 27, 2023, 08:25:25 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on November 27, 2023, 08:00:09 PMHow about we look at what counties put forward teams that do not play in their relevant Junior and Intermediate Leagues .
In Cavan there aren't Senior/intermediate/junior leagues I presume? They're called division 1,2 & 3, therefore no link to the championship grades?
Nobody seems to have a problem with Drumaness playing division 3 and junior championship in Down, whilst Bosco were playing division 4 and intermediate? They have a system of championship relegation play offs and therefore there's no link between championship and league. If they adopted a linked system then Bosco might well have won a junior championship this year, but they were able to retain intermediate status by once again winning in the relegation play offs.
I find it odd that people are insistent that there should be a link between the two. Surely championship relegation play offs when clubs have all their county players available etc is a much fairer way of grading teams rather than basing it on their league form earlier in the year, in what is a essentially a secondary competition.
I wonder is there an argument or evidence that teams that link have better Ulster club contenders and county teams?
No idea. But if so, doesn't it blow up your theory and moaning about this?
So Bosco are punching above their weight fair play. Not sure how the county players argument makes sense. Surely if you're fit to play division 1 without them then they come back and strengthen you more then you certainly shouldn't play in a weaker championship.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 27, 2023, 09:57:41 PMSo Bosco are punching above their weight fair play.
So maybe proof that there doesn't need to be a link between league and championship? With relegation play offs in championship teams will find their correct level. Counties that don't link them are correct in my opinion.
From an Armagh perspective, I recall playing in division 4 and beating teams from division 3 in junior championship games. I also remember in 2011 Eire Og were in division 4 and they defeated Tullysaran from division 2 in the first round, before beating Clonmore from division 3 in the final.
In 2010 Grange finished 2nd in division 4 and defeated Tullysaran, who finished 2nd in division 3, in the final.
Shane O'Neill's won the Junior in 2009 and played Sarsfields in the first round of intermediate in 2010. Sarsfields were a division 1 team against a division 3 team and won by a point - they went on to win the championship that year - despite being a division 1 team they made no impact in Ulster.
You will also find examples of teams being hammered by opposition from the divisions above them - it happened to my own club on occasions. But that still happens no even when the league and championship are linked (just look at Cullyhanna's results in the championship this year).
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 27, 2023, 09:57:41 PMNot sure how the county players argument makes sense. Surely if you're fit to play division 1 without them then they come back and strengthen you more then you certainly shouldn't play in a weaker championship.
Which is opposite to the Cullyhanna situation.
They're clearly a senior level team in Armagh with their county players available - the relative ease with which they won the intermediate championship proves this. They got relegated in 2022 based on their league performances without their county players.
If you don't see a problem with that then fair enough. I don't think I'll be able to convince you otherwise, and the same goes for me.
Quote from: intheknowhow on November 27, 2023, 01:00:43 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 27, 2023, 12:58:20 PMI can tell you I spoke to 3 lads at lunch there, from Sligo, Galway and Mayo. Their league and championship totally seperate too. Bar the couple on northern counties I haven't come across any that are linked
Do they have junior champ teams playing div 1?
Do they i don't know but it is possible to happen. Ardnaree on one occassion were in a junior AI final and I'm pretty sure they were not Div3.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 27, 2023, 07:56:18 PMSunday 10th Dec 2023
Intermediate Final
1pm
Ballyhaise v St Patrick's Cullyhanna in Castleblayney
is it not the athletic grounds?
Quote from: ranch on November 28, 2023, 01:29:41 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 27, 2023, 09:57:41 PMSo Bosco are punching above their weight fair play.
So maybe proof that there doesn't need to be a link between league and championship? With relegation play offs in championship teams will find their correct level. Counties that don't link them are correct in my opinion.
From an Armagh perspective, I recall playing in division 4 and beating teams from division 3 in junior championship games. I also remember in 2011 Eire Og were in division 4 and they defeated Tullysaran from division 2 in the first round, before beating Clonmore from division 3 in the final.
In 2010 Grange finished 2nd in division 4 and defeated Tullysaran, who finished 2nd in division 3, in the final.
Shane O'Neill's won the Junior in 2009 and played Sarsfields in the first round of intermediate in 2010. Sarsfields were a division 1 team against a division 3 team and won by a point - they went on to win the championship that year - despite being a division 1 team they made no impact in Ulster.
You will also find examples of teams being hammered by opposition from the divisions above them - it happened to my own club on occasions. But that still happens no even when the league and championship are linked (just look at Cullyhanna's results in the championship this year).
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 27, 2023, 09:57:41 PMNot sure how the county players argument makes sense. Surely if you're fit to play division 1 without them then they come back and strengthen you more then you certainly shouldn't play in a weaker championship.
Which is opposite to the Cullyhanna situation.
They're clearly a senior level team in Armagh with their county players available - the relative ease with which they won the intermediate championship proves this. They got relegated in 2022 based on their league performances without their county players.
If you don't see a problem with that then fair enough. I don't think I'll be able to convince you otherwise, and the same goes for me.
and they were beaten in the first round of the senior championship last year with their county players playing. Their county players played some games in the league also to say they got relegated without them is not entirely true.
I like the league and championship linked in armagh. Males it easier to understand without going into division 1 teams playing division 3 teams or what have you. I am not saying that is wrong at all, just my preference.
Quote from: tonto1888 on November 28, 2023, 06:46:34 AMQuote from: ranch on November 28, 2023, 01:29:41 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 27, 2023, 09:57:41 PMSo Bosco are punching above their weight fair play.
So maybe proof that there doesn't need to be a link between league and championship? With relegation play offs in championship teams will find their correct level. Counties that don't link them are correct in my opinion.
From an Armagh perspective, I recall playing in division 4 and beating teams from division 3 in junior championship games. I also remember in 2011 Eire Og were in division 4 and they defeated Tullysaran from division 2 in the first round, before beating Clonmore from division 3 in the final.
In 2010 Grange finished 2nd in division 4 and defeated Tullysaran, who finished 2nd in division 3, in the final.
Shane O'Neill's won the Junior in 2009 and played Sarsfields in the first round of intermediate in 2010. Sarsfields were a division 1 team against a division 3 team and won by a point - they went on to win the championship that year - despite being a division 1 team they made no impact in Ulster.
You will also find examples of teams being hammered by opposition from the divisions above them - it happened to my own club on occasions. But that still happens no even when the league and championship are linked (just look at Cullyhanna's results in the championship this year).
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 27, 2023, 09:57:41 PMNot sure how the county players argument makes sense. Surely if you're fit to play division 1 without them then they come back and strengthen you more then you certainly shouldn't play in a weaker championship.
Which is opposite to the Cullyhanna situation.
They're clearly a senior level team in Armagh with their county players available - the relative ease with which they won the intermediate championship proves this. They got relegated in 2022 based on their league performances without their county players.
If you don't see a problem with that then fair enough. I don't think I'll be able to convince you otherwise, and the same goes for me.
and they were beaten in the first round of the senior championship last year with their county players playing. Their county players played some games in the league also to say they got relegated without them is not entirely true.
I like the league and championship linked in armagh. Males it easier to understand without going into division 1 teams playing division 3 teams or what have you. I am not saying that is wrong at all, just my preference.
I get that people like it as it makes it easier to understand.
They did lose the first round last year, along with a few other teams as well. A relegation play off amongst those teams would have been a fair way to decide championship grades for this year. The fact they had their county players for a handful of games at the end of the league season doesn't make it fair that they go down to intermediate.
What good does it do other clubs like Belleek and Derrynoose to be playing against Cullyhanna in the intermediate this year?
Anyway, I feel like I'm needing to re-explain my point every few comments here to people who don't/won't be convinced otherwise, so it's a pretty futile exercise at this stage.
Quote from: ranch on November 28, 2023, 06:59:27 AMQuote from: tonto1888 on November 28, 2023, 06:46:34 AMQuote from: ranch on November 28, 2023, 01:29:41 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 27, 2023, 09:57:41 PMSo Bosco are punching above their weight fair play.
So maybe proof that there doesn't need to be a link between league and championship? With relegation play offs in championship teams will find their correct level. Counties that don't link them are correct in my opinion.
From an Armagh perspective, I recall playing in division 4 and beating teams from division 3 in junior championship games. I also remember in 2011 Eire Og were in division 4 and they defeated Tullysaran from division 2 in the first round, before beating Clonmore from division 3 in the final.
In 2010 Grange finished 2nd in division 4 and defeated Tullysaran, who finished 2nd in division 3, in the final.
Shane O'Neill's won the Junior in 2009 and played Sarsfields in the first round of intermediate in 2010. Sarsfields were a division 1 team against a division 3 team and won by a point - they went on to win the championship that year - despite being a division 1 team they made no impact in Ulster.
You will also find examples of teams being hammered by opposition from the divisions above them - it happened to my own club on occasions. But that still happens no even when the league and championship are linked (just look at Cullyhanna's results in the championship this year).
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 27, 2023, 09:57:41 PMNot sure how the county players argument makes sense. Surely if you're fit to play division 1 without them then they come back and strengthen you more then you certainly shouldn't play in a weaker championship.
Which is opposite to the Cullyhanna situation.
They're clearly a senior level team in Armagh with their county players available - the relative ease with which they won the intermediate championship proves this. They got relegated in 2022 based on their league performances without their county players.
If you don't see a problem with that then fair enough. I don't think I'll be able to convince you otherwise, and the same goes for me.
and they were beaten in the first round of the senior championship last year with their county players playing. Their county players played some games in the league also to say they got relegated without them is not entirely true.
I like the league and championship linked in armagh. Males it easier to understand without going into division 1 teams playing division 3 teams or what have you. I am not saying that is wrong at all, just my preference.
I get that people like it as it makes it easier to understand.
They did lose the first round last year, along with a few other teams as well. A relegation play off amongst those teams would have been a fair way to decide championship grades for this year. The fact they had their county players for a handful of games at the end of the league season doesn't make it fair that they go down to intermediate.
What good does it do other clubs like Belleek and Derrynoose to be playing against Cullyhanna in the intermediate this year?
Anyway, I feel like I'm needing to re-explain my point every few comments here to people who don't/won't be convinced otherwise, so it's a pretty futile exercise at this stage.
If Armagh do change then I would like to see the relegation you speak about.
To be honest, I dont care what other counties do in their championships. When I watch their games I dont think about how they are graded, unless it is Kerry but I stop thinking about it once the game is over. When Armagh teams play other county teams in Ulster it doesn't cross my mind at all how their championships are graded.
Your point about how the likes of Belleek feel doesnt register either. Ive seen teams in all grades get hammered over the years, including my own team and many in the senior championship when Crossmaglen were at the peak of their game. It happens
Quote from: tonto1888 on November 28, 2023, 07:18:33 AMQuote from: ranch on November 28, 2023, 06:59:27 AMQuote from: tonto1888 on November 28, 2023, 06:46:34 AMQuote from: ranch on November 28, 2023, 01:29:41 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 27, 2023, 09:57:41 PMSo Bosco are punching above their weight fair play.
So maybe proof that there doesn't need to be a link between league and championship? With relegation play offs in championship teams will find their correct level. Counties that don't link them are correct in my opinion.
From an Armagh perspective, I recall playing in division 4 and beating teams from division 3 in junior championship games. I also remember in 2011 Eire Og were in division 4 and they defeated Tullysaran from division 2 in the first round, before beating Clonmore from division 3 in the final.
In 2010 Grange finished 2nd in division 4 and defeated Tullysaran, who finished 2nd in division 3, in the final.
Shane O'Neill's won the Junior in 2009 and played Sarsfields in the first round of intermediate in 2010. Sarsfields were a division 1 team against a division 3 team and won by a point - they went on to win the championship that year - despite being a division 1 team they made no impact in Ulster.
You will also find examples of teams being hammered by opposition from the divisions above them - it happened to my own club on occasions. But that still happens no even when the league and championship are linked (just look at Cullyhanna's results in the championship this year).
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 27, 2023, 09:57:41 PMNot sure how the county players argument makes sense. Surely if you're fit to play division 1 without them then they come back and strengthen you more then you certainly shouldn't play in a weaker championship.
Which is opposite to the Cullyhanna situation.
They're clearly a senior level team in Armagh with their county players available - the relative ease with which they won the intermediate championship proves this. They got relegated in 2022 based on their league performances without their county players.
If you don't see a problem with that then fair enough. I don't think I'll be able to convince you otherwise, and the same goes for me.
and they were beaten in the first round of the senior championship last year with their county players playing. Their county players played some games in the league also to say they got relegated without them is not entirely true.
I like the league and championship linked in armagh. Males it easier to understand without going into division 1 teams playing division 3 teams or what have you. I am not saying that is wrong at all, just my preference.
I get that people like it as it makes it easier to understand.
They did lose the first round last year, along with a few other teams as well. A relegation play off amongst those teams would have been a fair way to decide championship grades for this year. The fact they had their county players for a handful of games at the end of the league season doesn't make it fair that they go down to intermediate.
What good does it do other clubs like Belleek and Derrynoose to be playing against Cullyhanna in the intermediate this year?
Anyway, I feel like I'm needing to re-explain my point every few comments here to people who don't/won't be convinced otherwise, so it's a pretty futile exercise at this stage.
Your point about how the likes of Belleek feel doesnt register either. Ive seen teams in all grades get hammered over the years, including my own team and many in the senior championship when Crossmaglen were at the peak of their game. It happens
Fair enough point about hammerings. This was more aimed at those posters who are complaining about the Cavan system, of which you aren't one.
Quote from: ranch on November 28, 2023, 01:29:41 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 27, 2023, 09:57:41 PMSo Bosco are punching above their weight fair play.
So maybe proof that there doesn't need to be a link between league and championship? With relegation play offs in championship teams will find their correct level. Counties that don't link them are correct in my opinion.
From an Armagh perspective,
Clans reached the Senior championship final this year and all teams bar one were in the league above them.
I like the 1a & 1b thing for senior league in Armagh. it's clear as day 1a is where it's at, 1b is a half way house for teams heading to intermediate or intermediate teams trying to genuinely bridge the gap to Senior. Clans were a bit of an outlier this year in 1b and they really need to get out of it. That said I don't think Clans are the 2nd best team in Armagh, still behind Clann Eireann and Madden imo, but a team heading up the rankings.
Quote from: general_lee on November 28, 2023, 10:31:27 AMQuote from: ranch on November 28, 2023, 01:29:41 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 27, 2023, 09:57:41 PMSo Bosco are punching above their weight fair play.
So maybe proof that there doesn't need to be a link between league and championship? With relegation play offs in championship teams will find their correct level. Counties that don't link them are correct in my opinion.
From an Armagh perspective,
Clans reached the Senior championship final this year and all teams bar one were in the league above them.
I'm not sure what point you're making here. I don't see how Clan wouldn't be a senior club if the championship system wasn't linked to league? They won intermediate a few years ago so would need to be relegated from the championship via a play off if the system was to change.
Quote from: ranch on November 28, 2023, 11:27:02 AMQuote from: general_lee on November 28, 2023, 10:31:27 AMQuote from: ranch on November 28, 2023, 01:29:41 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 27, 2023, 09:57:41 PMSo Bosco are punching above their weight fair play.
So maybe proof that there doesn't need to be a link between league and championship? With relegation play offs in championship teams will find their correct level. Counties that don't link them are correct in my opinion.
From an Armagh perspective,
Clans reached the Senior championship final this year and all teams bar one were in the league above them.
I'm not sure what point you're making here. I don't see how Clan wouldn't be a senior club if the championship system wasn't linked to league? They won intermediate a few years ago so would need to be relegated from the championship via a play off if the system was to change.
You suggested a few posts back that a load of occasions when clubs from lower league divisions defeated clubs above them in championship football was proof that there was no need to link league and championship.
I'm merely demonstrating that this is still the case even with leagues & championships linked.
Quote from: bennydorano on November 28, 2023, 11:23:38 AMI like the 1a & 1b thing for senior league in Armagh. it's clear as day 1a is where it's at, 1b is a half way house for teams heading to intermediate or intermediate teams trying to genuinely bridge the gap to Senior. Clans were a bit of an outlier this year in 1b and they really need to get out of it. That said I don't think Clans are the 2nd best team in Armagh, still behind Clann Eireann and Madden imo, but a team heading up the rankings.
Absolutely, for all intents and purposes 1B is Division 2 football. If we revert to separation between league and championship we devalue the league while also making it more difficult for clubs to compete at a higher level.
Quote from: general_lee on November 28, 2023, 12:04:40 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 28, 2023, 11:23:38 AMI like the 1a & 1b thing for senior league in Armagh. it's clear as day 1a is where it's at, 1b is a half way house for teams heading to intermediate or intermediate teams trying to genuinely bridge the gap to Senior. Clans were a bit of an outlier this year in 1b and they really need to get out of it. That said I don't think Clans are the 2nd best team in Armagh, still behind Clann Eireann and Madden imo, but a team heading up the rankings.
Absolutely, for all intents and purposes 1B is Division 2 football. If we revert to separation between league and championship we devalue the league while also making it more difficult for clubs to compete at a higher level.
I see the points you're making about competing at a higher level. I'm firmly of the view that move up in championship grade then you should have to win that championship. The same applies to relegation from championships and play offs (unlike the old days in Armagh where clubs would just request to be regraded). It seems we could debate this all day and never agree - how about some ways the current structure could be improved if it's going to remain in place?
1) scrap the current seeding system
For the group stage draw - seed the top 4 teams in 1a so they're in separate groups, and put the other 12 clubs in the other pot - make the group stages that bit more interesting.
2) top 2 qualify for the last 8-the play off round should be scrapped. I understand that they have it there to avoid dead rubbers in the final games, but let's bring some jeopardy into the early games, it was a tough watch at times this year.
3) play games at neutral venues throughout the championship, have double headers from the start and get some interest going early on.
4)top 2 in the league should play a league final- no real reason why, just to give us a big game to get interested in pre championship (this would apply across all divisions).
Just start the season a bit later and let county players play more football with their clubs
Quote from: smort on November 28, 2023, 12:50:55 PMJust start the season a bit later and let county players play more football with their clubs
What do the club players do for most of the year then? Are we really trying to cram club leagues and Championships from late July onwards?
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 28, 2023, 01:39:55 PMQuote from: smort on November 28, 2023, 12:50:55 PMJust start the season a bit later and let county players play more football with their clubs
What do the club players do for most of the year then? Are we really trying to cram club leagues and Championships from late July onwards?
The idea that club players should only play as much as county players are available is madness. There must be some form of competition not involving county players
Quote from: armaghniac on November 28, 2023, 01:52:07 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 28, 2023, 01:39:55 PMQuote from: smort on November 28, 2023, 12:50:55 PMJust start the season a bit later and let county players play more football with their clubs
What do the club players do for most of the year then? Are we really trying to cram club leagues and Championships from late July onwards?
The idea that club players should only play as much as county players are available is madness. There must be some form of competition not involving county players
Hence why the split season was created...
Quote from: armaghniac on November 28, 2023, 01:52:07 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on November 28, 2023, 01:39:55 PMQuote from: smort on November 28, 2023, 12:50:55 PMJust start the season a bit later and let county players play more football with their clubs
What do the club players do for most of the year then? Are we really trying to cram club leagues and Championships from late July onwards?
The idea that club players should only play as much as county players are available is madness. There must be some form of competition not involving county players
I'd imagine it's the case that in 80% plus of all counties there is no link between league and championship, and county league can be run-off without the county players. If county players do become available (say lads returning from injury/lads outside the gameday 26 in need of some game time), it's no big deal if they do take part in a league game or two because the league position doesn't affect championship in any way.
I really can't understand from a scheduling/practicality point of view given the split-season is in place why any county would retain the link between league and championship.
Quote from: ranch on November 28, 2023, 12:41:25 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 28, 2023, 12:04:40 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 28, 2023, 11:23:38 AMI like the 1a & 1b thing for senior league in Armagh. it's clear as day 1a is where it's at, 1b is a half way house for teams heading to intermediate or intermediate teams trying to genuinely bridge the gap to Senior. Clans were a bit of an outlier this year in 1b and they really need to get out of it. That said I don't think Clans are the 2nd best team in Armagh, still behind Clann Eireann and Madden imo, but a team heading up the rankings.
Absolutely, for all intents and purposes 1B is Division 2 football. If we revert to separation between league and championship we devalue the league while also making it more difficult for clubs to compete at a higher level.
I see the points you're making about competing at a higher level. I'm firmly of the view that move up in championship grade then you should have to win that championship. The same applies to relegation from championships and play offs (unlike the old days in Armagh where clubs would just request to be regraded). It seems we could debate this all day and never agree - how about some ways the current structure could be improved if it's going to remain in place?
1) scrap the current seeding system
For the group stage draw - seed the top 4 teams in 1a so they're in separate groups, and put the other 12 clubs in the other pot - make the group stages that bit more interesting.
I could live with that. Though ideally I'd prefer a return to straight knock out. Last couples of years had a real championship buzz whereas the groups are a bit dragged out with no bite.Quote from: ranch on November 28, 2023, 12:41:25 PM2) top 2 qualify for the last 8-the play off round should be scrapped. I understand that they have it there to avoid dead rubbers in the final games, but let's bring some jeopardy into the early games, it was a tough watch at times this year.
I disagree, with dead rubbers you're going to have clubs with nothing to play for playing teams that do and it'll be pure luck who gets to play the wooden spoon in the final game and rack up the scoring difference. Quote from: ranch on November 28, 2023, 12:41:25 PM3) play games at neutral venues throughout the championship, have double headers from the start and get some interest going early on.
I'm all for double headers, even triple headers (say 3 Lurgan teams were playing) Quote from: ranch on November 28, 2023, 12:41:25 PM4)top 2 in the league should play a league final- no real reason why, just to give us a big game to get interested in pre championship (this would apply across all divisions).
Nope, this devalues the league. You finish top at the end of the season you're the league champions.
Quote from: tonto1888 on November 28, 2023, 06:40:34 AMQuote from: Captain Obvious on November 27, 2023, 07:56:18 PMSunday 10th Dec 2023
Intermediate Final
1pm
Ballyhaise v St Patrick's Cullyhanna in Castleblayney
is it not the athletic grounds?
No. Castleblayney as stated.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 28, 2023, 07:40:10 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on November 28, 2023, 06:40:34 AMQuote from: Captain Obvious on November 27, 2023, 07:56:18 PMSunday 10th Dec 2023
Intermediate Final
1pm
Ballyhaise v St Patrick's Cullyhanna in Castleblayney
is it not the athletic grounds?
No. Castleblayney as stated.
Cheers. I misread the tweet. Senior final at the AG
I like our system in Armagh, think the leagues are competitive for the most part although lower senior clubs are probably only really intermediate standard and lower intermediate clubs are more like junior standard.
Only gripe i have is those daft group games in the championship. Straight knock out the only way.
You can't go straight knockout if the league doesn't really mine anything.
Teams training all year for 1 game of any consequence
League is taken seriously. Championship is far better when theres jeopardy rather than another mini league. Anyway just my opinion anyway.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 28, 2023, 10:41:33 PMLeague is taken seriously. Championship is far better when theres jeopardy rather than another mini league. Anyway just my opinion anyway.
I'd question how seriously league is taken. After a few games it's pretty clear who is in with a chance of winning/promotion and who is likely to get relegated. After that it's no different to any other league, linked or unlinked. Only playing 14 games also diminishes the league in my opinion.
1)Back to 4 divisions of 11/12 teams playing each other twice, top team goes up and 2nd-5th enter play offs to keep it interesting towards the end. Bottom 2 go down. If that's too many fixtures then 5 divisions of 9/10 teams could be used instead (and maybe scrap the play off idea).
2)Straight knock out championship unlinked to league. Relegation play offs in championship.
3) introduce a junior B championship for the bottom 8 clubs.
4) I'd continue to allow 2nds teams to play in the league system but they would have to play in the reserve championship.
That would leave roughly 42 teams in the championship structure (minus Cross II, Killeavy II, Clann Eireann II) - 12 senior, 12 intermediate, 10 junior, 8 junior B
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 28, 2023, 07:40:10 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on November 28, 2023, 06:40:34 AMQuote from: Captain Obvious on November 27, 2023, 07:56:18 PMSunday 10th Dec 2023
Intermediate Final
1pm
Ballyhaise v St Patrick's Cullyhanna in Castleblayney
is it not the athletic grounds?
No. Castleblayney as stated.
A double header with the senior final in Newry or Omagh would make more sense surely?
Quote from: ranch on November 29, 2023, 12:26:29 AMQuote from: Captain Obvious on November 28, 2023, 07:40:10 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on November 28, 2023, 06:40:34 AMQuote from: Captain Obvious on November 27, 2023, 07:56:18 PMSunday 10th Dec 2023
Intermediate Final
1pm
Ballyhaise v St Patrick's Cullyhanna in Castleblayney
is it not the athletic grounds?
No. Castleblayney as stated.
A double header with the senior final in Newry or Omagh would make more sense surely?
you would have thought so
Pitches mightnt stick double headers too well?
Quote from: ranch on November 28, 2023, 11:40:31 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 28, 2023, 10:41:33 PMLeague is taken seriously. Championship is far better when theres jeopardy rather than another mini league. Anyway just my opinion anyway.
I'd question how seriously league is taken. After a few games it's pretty clear who is in with a chance of winning/promotion and who is likely to get relegated. After that it's no different to any other league, linked or unlinked. Only playing 14 games also diminishes the league in my opinion.
1)Back to 4 divisions of 11/12 teams playing each other twice, top team goes up and 2nd-5th enter play offs to keep it interesting towards the end. Bottom 2 go down. If that's too many fixtures then 5 divisions of 9/10 teams could be used instead (and maybe scrap the play off idea).
2)Straight knock out championship unlinked to league. Relegation play offs in championship.
3) introduce a junior B championship for the bottom 8 clubs.
4) I'd continue to allow 2nds teams to play in the league system but they would have to play in the reserve championship.
That would leave roughly 42 teams in the championship structure (minus Cross II, Killeavy II, Clann Eireann II) - 12 senior, 12 intermediate, 10 junior, 8 junior B
Was not the case in 2a this year Tullysaran in first 6 games won 4 of those including away to Culloville(league winners) and Cullyhanna (championship winners) I don't think they won another game after May lost 8/9 in a row and only stayed up with a draw on last day.
The introduction of a junior b championship may be a decent idea, outside Clann Eireann seconds think there is a big gap between the bottom and top of junior.
Would be in favour of a junior B championship myself. Give smaller clubs something to aim for. A fair few higher junior teams would be yoyoing between intermediate and junior while the lower teams realistically are miles off going up
Hear there's a bit of a push for seconds teams from more of the bigger clubs in Armagh so Junior championship could get a bit of a revitalising
Quote from: bennydorano on November 29, 2023, 01:09:11 PMHear there's a bit of a push for seconds teams from more of the bigger clubs in Armagh so Junior championship could get a bit of a revitalising
I personally don't like this as I think they should compete in the reserve championship. Let the smaller clubs compete for the junior championship.
You'll never convince me that winning the junior championship would mean as much to Cross or Clann Eireann as it would to Corrinshego or O'Hanlon's.
No problem with seconds teams competing in the all county league set up however.
Quote from: bennydorano on November 29, 2023, 01:09:11 PMHear there's a bit of a push for seconds teams from more of the bigger clubs in Armagh so Junior championship could get a bit of a revitalising
Are Harps entering a IIs team?
Quote from: ranch on November 29, 2023, 01:29:06 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 29, 2023, 01:09:11 PMHear there's a bit of a push for seconds teams from more of the bigger clubs in Armagh so Junior championship could get a bit of a revitalising
I personally don't like this as I think they should compete in the reserve championship. Let the smaller clubs compete for the junior championship.
You'll never convince me that winning the junior championship would mean as much to Cross or Clann Eireann as it would to Corrinshego or O'Hanlon's.
No problem with seconds teams competing in the all county league set up however.
Yeah agree, let the reserve league be left alone to give fringe players for smaller clubs a go.
Let seconds teams compete in the junior/intermediate league but then have a championship for seconds and reserve teams.
Quote from: general_lee on November 29, 2023, 04:13:28 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 29, 2023, 01:09:11 PMHear there's a bit of a push for seconds teams from more of the bigger clubs in Armagh so Junior championship could get a bit of a revitalising
Are Harps entering a IIs team?
No idea but i doubt we'd have consistent numbers/ commitment(to do it right) believe it or not. Was meant to happen decade+ ago and never materialised.
Silverbridge and couple of other teams were looking at it apparently.
Quote from: bennydorano on November 29, 2023, 05:22:39 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 29, 2023, 04:13:28 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 29, 2023, 01:09:11 PMHear there's a bit of a push for seconds teams from more of the bigger clubs in Armagh so Junior championship could get a bit of a revitalising
Are Harps entering a IIs team?
No idea but i doubt we'd have consistent numbers/ commitment(to do it right) believe it or not. Was meant to happen decade+ ago and never materialised.
I'd say that would be the biggest hindrance for most clubs. Heard CE were getting 50+ show up for training and I'd say Cross would have similar numbers.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 29, 2023, 04:35:33 PMQuote from: ranch on November 29, 2023, 01:29:06 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 29, 2023, 01:09:11 PMHear there's a bit of a push for seconds teams from more of the bigger clubs in Armagh so Junior championship could get a bit of a revitalising
I personally don't like this as I think they should compete in the reserve championship. Let the smaller clubs compete for the junior championship.
You'll never convince me that winning the junior championship would mean as much to Cross or Clann Eireann as it would to Corrinshego or O'Hanlon's.
No problem with seconds teams competing in the all county league set up however.
Yeah agree, let the reserve league be left alone to give fringe players for smaller clubs a go.
Let seconds teams compete in the junior/intermediate league but then have a championship for seconds and reserve teams.
If a club is good enough to field a IIs team at intermediate level, why would you force them to play reserve championship? Benefits nobody.
Quote from: general_lee on November 29, 2023, 05:56:12 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 29, 2023, 05:22:39 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 29, 2023, 04:13:28 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 29, 2023, 01:09:11 PMHear there's a bit of a push for seconds teams from more of the bigger clubs in Armagh so Junior championship could get a bit of a revitalising
Are Harps entering a IIs team?
No idea but i doubt we'd have consistent numbers/ commitment(to do it right) believe it or not. Was meant to happen decade+ ago and never materialised.
I'd say that would be the biggest hindrance for most clubs. Heard CE were getting 50+ show up for training and I'd say Cross would have similar numbers.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 29, 2023, 04:35:33 PMQuote from: ranch on November 29, 2023, 01:29:06 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 29, 2023, 01:09:11 PMHear there's a bit of a push for seconds teams from more of the bigger clubs in Armagh so Junior championship could get a bit of a revitalising
I personally don't like this as I think they should compete in the reserve championship. Let the smaller clubs compete for the junior championship.
You'll never convince me that winning the junior championship would mean as much to Cross or Clann Eireann as it would to Corrinshego or O'Hanlon's.
No problem with seconds teams competing in the all county league set up however.
Yeah agree, let the reserve league be left alone to give fringe players for smaller clubs a go.
Let seconds teams compete in the junior/intermediate league but then have a championship for seconds and reserve teams.
If a club is good enough to field a IIs team at intermediate level, why would you force them to play reserve championship? Benefits nobody.
Fair enough. Maybe just ban them playing junior championship.
Quote from: general_lee on November 29, 2023, 05:56:12 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 29, 2023, 05:22:39 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 29, 2023, 04:13:28 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 29, 2023, 01:09:11 PMHear there's a bit of a push for seconds teams from more of the bigger clubs in Armagh so Junior championship could get a bit of a revitalising
Are Harps entering a IIs team?
No idea but i doubt we'd have consistent numbers/ commitment(to do it right) believe it or not. Was meant to happen decade+ ago and never materialised.
I'd say that would be the biggest hindrance for most clubs. Heard CE were getting 50+ show up for training and I'd say Cross would have similar numbers.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 29, 2023, 04:35:33 PMQuote from: ranch on November 29, 2023, 01:29:06 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 29, 2023, 01:09:11 PMHear there's a bit of a push for seconds teams from more of the bigger clubs in Armagh so Junior championship could get a bit of a revitalising
I personally don't like this as I think they should compete in the reserve championship. Let the smaller clubs compete for the junior championship.
You'll never convince me that winning the junior championship would mean as much to Cross or Clann Eireann as it would to Corrinshego or O'Hanlon's.
No problem with seconds teams competing in the all county league set up however.
Yeah agree, let the reserve league be left alone to give fringe players for smaller clubs a go.
Let seconds teams compete in the junior/intermediate league but then have a championship for seconds and reserve teams.
If a club is good enough to field a IIs team at intermediate level, why would you force them to play reserve championship? Benefits nobody.
Because their club already competes in the senior championship. They're a reserve team so should compete in the reserve championship. Let clubs who can compete in Ulster at that level battle it out for the junior/intermediate championships.
Have a Premier reserve championship for the stronger teams and then a reserve championship for the others, similar to the Down set up.
Quote from: ranch on November 29, 2023, 08:09:26 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 29, 2023, 05:56:12 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 29, 2023, 05:22:39 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 29, 2023, 04:13:28 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 29, 2023, 01:09:11 PMHear there's a bit of a push for seconds teams from more of the bigger clubs in Armagh so Junior championship could get a bit of a revitalising
Are Harps entering a IIs team?
No idea but i doubt we'd have consistent numbers/ commitment(to do it right) believe it or not. Was meant to happen decade+ ago and never materialised.
I'd say that would be the biggest hindrance for most clubs. Heard CE were getting 50+ show up for training and I'd say Cross would have similar numbers.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 29, 2023, 04:35:33 PMQuote from: ranch on November 29, 2023, 01:29:06 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 29, 2023, 01:09:11 PMHear there's a bit of a push for seconds teams from more of the bigger clubs in Armagh so Junior championship could get a bit of a revitalising
I personally don't like this as I think they should compete in the reserve championship. Let the smaller clubs compete for the junior championship.
You'll never convince me that winning the junior championship would mean as much to Cross or Clann Eireann as it would to Corrinshego or O'Hanlon's.
No problem with seconds teams competing in the all county league set up however.
Yeah agree, let the reserve league be left alone to give fringe players for smaller clubs a go.
Let seconds teams compete in the junior/intermediate league but then have a championship for seconds and reserve teams.
If a club is good enough to field a IIs team at intermediate level, why would you force them to play reserve championship? Benefits nobody.
Because their club already competes in the senior championship. They're a reserve team so should compete in the reserve championship. Let clubs who can compete in Ulster at that level battle it out for the junior/intermediate championships.
Have a Premier reserve championship for the stronger teams and then a reserve championship for the others, similar to the Down set up.
I wouldn't be looking at Down for how they run things and in truth reserve football in every county is probably suffering the same issues.
In an ideal world the IIs teams would play reserve but 1. Reserve football is too inconsistent & 2. They're far too strong for junior let alone reserve football.
At the end of the day CE are only the third IIs team to win the junior in 100 odd years
Quote from: general_lee on November 30, 2023, 12:40:24 PMQuote from: ranch on November 29, 2023, 08:09:26 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 29, 2023, 05:56:12 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 29, 2023, 05:22:39 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 29, 2023, 04:13:28 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 29, 2023, 01:09:11 PMHear there's a bit of a push for seconds teams from more of the bigger clubs in Armagh so Junior championship could get a bit of a revitalising
Are Harps entering a IIs team?
No idea but i doubt we'd have consistent numbers/ commitment(to do it right) believe it or not. Was meant to happen decade+ ago and never materialised.
I'd say that would be the biggest hindrance for most clubs. Heard CE were getting 50+ show up for training and I'd say Cross would have similar numbers.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 29, 2023, 04:35:33 PMQuote from: ranch on November 29, 2023, 01:29:06 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 29, 2023, 01:09:11 PMHear there's a bit of a push for seconds teams from more of the bigger clubs in Armagh so Junior championship could get a bit of a revitalising
I personally don't like this as I think they should compete in the reserve championship. Let the smaller clubs compete for the junior championship.
You'll never convince me that winning the junior championship would mean as much to Cross or Clann Eireann as it would to Corrinshego or O'Hanlon's.
No problem with seconds teams competing in the all county league set up however.
Yeah agree, let the reserve league be left alone to give fringe players for smaller clubs a go.
Let seconds teams compete in the junior/intermediate league but then have a championship for seconds and reserve teams.
If a club is good enough to field a IIs team at intermediate level, why would you force them to play reserve championship? Benefits nobody.
Because their club already competes in the senior championship. They're a reserve team so should compete in the reserve championship. Let clubs who can compete in Ulster at that level battle it out for the junior/intermediate championships.
Have a Premier reserve championship for the stronger teams and then a reserve championship for the others, similar to the Down set up.
I wouldn't be looking at Down for how they run things and in truth reserve football in every county is probably suffering the same issues.
In an ideal world the IIs teams would play reserve but 1. Reserve football is too inconsistent & 2. They're far too strong for junior let alone reserve football.
At the end of the day CE are only the third IIs team to win the junior in 100 odd years
I'd be happy for them to continue in the all county league set up. Reserve league football can be very inconsistent and doesn't suit all clubs. I've no problem with clubs looking more consistent football entering the league system.
I just don't think they should be competing against junior clubs in the junior championship. They are senior club reserve sides and should compete in the reserve championship. Once again, this is just my own opinion, I don't expect there to be change on this issue anytime soon.
Quote from: ranch on November 29, 2023, 01:29:06 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 29, 2023, 01:09:11 PMHear there's a bit of a push for seconds teams from more of the bigger clubs in Armagh so Junior championship could get a bit of a revitalising
I personally don't like this as I think they should compete in the reserve championship. Let the smaller clubs compete for the junior championship.
You'll never convince me that winning the junior championship would mean as much to Cross or Clann Eireann as it would to Corrinshego or O'Hanlon's.
No problem with seconds teams competing in the all county league set up however.
speak to some of the guys who won it and see what they think
Quote from: tonto1888 on November 30, 2023, 01:32:28 PMQuote from: ranch on November 29, 2023, 01:29:06 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 29, 2023, 01:09:11 PMHear there's a bit of a push for seconds teams from more of the bigger clubs in Armagh so Junior championship could get a bit of a revitalising
I personally don't like this as I think they should compete in the reserve championship. Let the smaller clubs compete for the junior championship.
You'll never convince me that winning the junior championship would mean as much to Cross or Clann Eireann as it would to Corrinshego or O'Hanlon's.
No problem with seconds teams competing in the all county league set up however.
speak to some of the guys who won it and see what they think
Why would I need to? I know quite a few lads who have won Junior championships over the years.
Of course lads are delighted to win it. It has nothing to do with my point. I've named the clubs, not individuals. If you think it would mean as much to Clann Eireann to win the Junior this year as it would to Corrinshego or Clady then that's fair enough, but there's no way as far as I'm concerned. Nothing against CE who won it fair and square in 2023 by the way, it's not their fault the rules are as they are.
I wouldn't deny the lads championship football either. But, it would be the reserve championship along with Cross II and killeavy II, and other reserve sides, not Junior football against junior level clubs who are aiming to win a championship at their appropriate level and hoping to represent the county at provincial level.
Ulster IFC
5/11/23 - Preliminary Round
Teemore (Fermanagh) 0-04 v Liatroim (Down) 3-06
12/11/23 - Quarter Finals
Glenullin (Derry) 3-13 v Glenravel (Antrim) 0-07
Ballyhaise (Cavan) 4-15 v Downings (Donegal) 0-11
Pomeroy (Tyrone) 0-10 v Cullyhanna (Armagh) 0-11
Killanny (Monaghan) 0-07 v Liatroim (Down) 0-09
Semi Finals
Glenullin 1-13 v Ballyhaise 1-14
Cullyhanna 0-17 v Liatroim 0-06
Final
Ballyhaise v Cullyhanna
Ulster JFC
29/10/23 - Preliminary Round
Ballyhegan (Armagh) 1-06 v Fintona (Tyrone) 1-16
5/11/23 - Quarter Finals
Ballymaguigan (Derry) 0-08 v Arva (Cavan) 2-17
Na Rossa (Donegal) 2-05 v Lisnaskea (Fermanagh) 1-09
Blackhill (Monaghan) 5-11 v Rasharkin (Antim) 1-07
Fintona (Tyrone) 0-11 v Drumaness (Down) 0-07
Semi Finals
Arva 1-11 v Lisnaskea 0-04
Blackhill 2-10 v Fintona 0-07
Final
Arva v Blackhill
Did I hear that after this year and what happened with Cullyhanna, that Armagh are looking to unlink League and Championship from next year?
Quote from: Dreadnought on December 06, 2023, 11:52:28 AMDid I hear that after this year and what happened with Cullyhanna, that Armagh are looking to unlink League and Championship from next year?
Correct, talk is Armagh county board are going to instruct clubs to treat the league like a joke and use this as cover for shoehorning a few of our Division 1 clubs into the Junior championship.
Quote from: general_lee on December 06, 2023, 12:09:00 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on December 06, 2023, 11:52:28 AMDid I hear that after this year and what happened with Cullyhanna, that Armagh are looking to unlink League and Championship from next year?
Correct, talk is Armagh county board are going to instruct clubs to treat the league like a joke and use this as cover for shoehorning a few of our Division 1 clubs into the Junior championship.
Cullyhanna are 1/4 to win this Intermediate final, even their manager is stating they are a senior club in interviews and how unfair it was on other Armagh intermediate.
Yet you're on crying about tiny clubs in Cavan to deflect. It's pathetic.
Quote from: full moon on December 06, 2023, 12:24:41 PMQuote from: general_lee on December 06, 2023, 12:09:00 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on December 06, 2023, 11:52:28 AMDid I hear that after this year and what happened with Cullyhanna, that Armagh are looking to unlink League and Championship from next year?
Correct, talk is Armagh county board are going to instruct clubs to treat the league like a joke and use this as cover for shoehorning a few of our Division 1 clubs into the Junior championship.
Cullyhanna are 1/4 to win this Intermediate final, even their manager is stating they are a senior club in interviews and how unfair it was on other Armagh intermediate.
Yet you're on crying about tiny clubs in Cavan to deflect. It's pathetic.
Is the difference here not the fact that Cullyhanna did go down the league tables, due to missing a rake of players? And this year, lots of ex-players returned, and the form of the county lads?
Quote from: full moon on December 06, 2023, 12:24:41 PMQuote from: general_lee on December 06, 2023, 12:09:00 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on December 06, 2023, 11:52:28 AMDid I hear that after this year and what happened with Cullyhanna, that Armagh are looking to unlink League and Championship from next year?
Correct, talk is Armagh county board are going to instruct clubs to treat the league like a joke and use this as cover for shoehorning a few of our Division 1 clubs into the Junior championship.
Cullyhanna are 1/4 to win this Intermediate final, even their manager is stating they are a senior club in interviews and how unfair it was on other Armagh intermediate.
Yet you're on crying about tiny clubs in Cavan to deflect. It's pathetic.
Aye because Cullyhanna, the great metropolis that it is with its 300 odd inhabitants and their 2 years without a home win were incorrectly allocated Intermediate status by those sneaky Armagh f**kers; what with their fancy relegation and insisting teams finishing 2nd bottom out of 16 senior clubs play the grade below the following year. The audacity!
Quote from: 5times5times on December 06, 2023, 12:30:57 PMQuote from: full moon on December 06, 2023, 12:24:41 PMQuote from: general_lee on December 06, 2023, 12:09:00 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on December 06, 2023, 11:52:28 AMDid I hear that after this year and what happened with Cullyhanna, that Armagh are looking to unlink League and Championship from next year?
Correct, talk is Armagh county board are going to instruct clubs to treat the league like a joke and use this as cover for shoehorning a few of our Division 1 clubs into the Junior championship.
Cullyhanna are 1/4 to win this Intermediate final, even their manager is stating they are a senior club in interviews and how unfair it was on other Armagh intermediate.
Yet you're on crying about tiny clubs in Cavan to deflect. It's pathetic.
Is the difference here not the fact that Cullyhanna did go down the league tables, due to missing a rake of players? And this year, lots of ex-players returned, and the form of the county lads?
Absolutely. Even if league and championship weren't linked they'd have likely been relegated via championship anyway.
Quote from: 5times5times on December 06, 2023, 12:30:57 PMQuote from: full moon on December 06, 2023, 12:24:41 PMQuote from: general_lee on December 06, 2023, 12:09:00 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on December 06, 2023, 11:52:28 AMDid I hear that after this year and what happened with Cullyhanna, that Armagh are looking to unlink League and Championship from next year?
Correct, talk is Armagh county board are going to instruct clubs to treat the league like a joke and use this as cover for shoehorning a few of our Division 1 clubs into the Junior championship.
Cullyhanna are 1/4 to win this Intermediate final, even their manager is stating they are a senior club in interviews and how unfair it was on other Armagh intermediate.
Yet you're on crying about tiny clubs in Cavan to deflect. It's pathetic.
Is the difference here not the fact that Cullyhanna did go down the league tables, due to missing a rake of players? And this year, lots of ex-players returned, and the form of the county lads?
yup. A division 3 team playing intermediate championship. The terribleness of it all. Cullyhanna suffered two relegations in the not too distant past to go from 1a to 2a.
Arva 2-1 to 0-0 ahead against an actual junior team, Wandsworth Gaels after 15 mins
Yep Division 1 Arva off to a flyer in the Twinning Final/AI 1/4 Final.
Quote from: clarshack on December 09, 2023, 01:48:30 PMYep Division 1 Arva off to a flyer in the Twinning Final/AI 1/4 Final.
Remember it dosnt matter what league you play in Cavan... teams don't take it seriously!
Playing Div 1 football has seriously benefited Arva.
To say it dosnt matter is pulling the wool over their eyes
Good win for Arva in atrocious conditions. Nice break now until after Christmas and a chance for some injuries to clear up.
Quote from: Westside on December 09, 2023, 05:32:10 PMGood win for Arva in atrocious conditions. Nice break now until after Christmas and a chance for some injuries to clear up.
Division 1 Arva will now play Division 4 Milltown (Kildare) in the All-Ireland Semi Final.
Listowel won the Munster Junior today so maybe they should just skip the semis and play the final before Christmas and be done with this farce.
Quote from: clarshack on December 09, 2023, 06:19:23 PMQuote from: Westside on December 09, 2023, 05:32:10 PMGood win for Arva in atrocious conditions. Nice break now until after Christmas and a chance for some injuries to clear up.
Division 1 Arva will now play Division 4 Milltown (Kildare) in the All-Ireland Semi Final.
Listowel won the Munster Junior today so maybe they should just skip the semis and play the final before Christmas and be done with this farce.
This isn't a league competition. This is a championship competition. The All Ireland
Junior Championship. It's actually in the name.
Arva were relegated to the Junior Championship in 2021.
Let me know if you need me to dull it down any more for you, plenty on here having trouble with it.
Quote from: clarshack on December 09, 2023, 06:19:23 PMQuote from: Westside on December 09, 2023, 05:32:10 PMGood win for Arva in atrocious conditions. Nice break now until after Christmas and a chance for some injuries to clear up.
Division 1 Arva will now play Division 4 Milltown (Kildare) in the All-Ireland Semi Final.
Listowel won the Munster Junior today so maybe they should just skip the semis and play the final before Christmas and be done with this farce.
Would ye ever stop yer f**king whinging for f**k sake.
Quote from: Itchy on December 09, 2023, 08:26:38 PMQuote from: clarshack on December 09, 2023, 06:19:23 PMQuote from: Westside on December 09, 2023, 05:32:10 PMGood win for Arva in atrocious conditions. Nice break now until after Christmas and a chance for some injuries to clear up.
Division 1 Arva will now play Division 4 Milltown (Kildare) in the All-Ireland Semi Final.
Listowel won the Munster Junior today so maybe they should just skip the semis and play the final before Christmas and be done with this farce.
Would ye ever stop yer f**king whinging for f**k sake.
😂
Seen Wandsworth at close hand when they beat my club in the All-Britain series.
They are a seriously physical outfit and I've seen nearly every representative of Britain to contest the all Ireland junior series in last 8/9 years and I would put them as the strongest..... and they still couldn't get near Arva.
Quote from: theticklemister on December 10, 2023, 11:19:27 AMSeen Wandsworth at close hand when they beat my club in the All-Britain series.
They are a seriously physical outfit and I've seen nearly every representative of Britain to contest the all Ireland junior series in last 8/9 years and I would put them as the strongest..... and they still couldn't get near Arva.
I'll be honest, they were abysmal. Men over weight, no structure. No movement. They had no idea ehat to do against a sweeper.
Half time and Ballyhaise making the pre-game odds look very silly. Should be ahead by much more than 3. Superior around the middle and playing effective direct football.
Cullyhanna reminiscent of Armagh this year - struggling to get primary possession and, then when they do get hands on the ball, just fannying around recycling and going nowhere.
Bound to be a kick in Cullyhanna?
Ballyhaise have played direct football all year and it's paying off now. They will probably live to regret missed chances
Pity the commentator is talking waffle interchanging English and Irish ...
Cullyhanna couldn't beat Ballyhaise so in true Cavan style Ballyhaise set about beating themselves
Well done Cullyhanna
Well done Cullyhanna, 3rd tier of Armagh beating top tier from Cavan.
Congrats to the Cullies. Only following on twitter but I assume they played much better in the 2nd half.
Cavan club football must be weak.
Quote from: general_lee on December 10, 2023, 02:26:51 PMWell done Cullyhanna, 3rd tier of Armagh beating top tier from Cavan.
Ballyhaise are Intermediate, in Cavan that's second tier. First tier in Cavan is Senior football. Ballyhaise will be there next year.
Ballyhaise didn't press their advantage and got caught. Cullyhanna played better in those vital final moments. Well done to them.
Robbery! Ballyhaise will be sick - missed enough to win two games.
Fair play to Cullyhanna though, didn't let their chance slip after Ballyhaise left the door ajar. A bit of work needed on those kick outs over Christmas, but there's much better football in them.
First ever winner from Armagh at this grade. First Armagh team to even win a game in the competition for well over a decade. Huge achievement.
Quote from: Westside on December 10, 2023, 02:31:21 PMQuote from: general_lee on December 10, 2023, 02:26:51 PMWell done Cullyhanna, 3rd tier of Armagh beating top tier from Cavan.
Ballyhaise are Intermediate, in Cavan that's second tier. First tier in Cavan is Senior football. Ballyhaise will be there next year.
Ballyhaise didn't press their advantage and got caught. Cullyhanna played better in those vital final moments. Well done to them.
Your like a broken record defending your counties structures. Everyone understands your structure...
Just not the fairness that 3 x Div 1 teams represented Cavan this year. It's bizarre
Quote from: intheknowhow on December 10, 2023, 02:40:32 PMQuote from: Westside on December 10, 2023, 02:31:21 PMQuote from: general_lee on December 10, 2023, 02:26:51 PMWell done Cullyhanna, 3rd tier of Armagh beating top tier from Cavan.
Ballyhaise are Intermediate, in Cavan that's second tier. First tier in Cavan is Senior football. Ballyhaise will be there next year.
Ballyhaise didn't press their advantage and got caught. Cullyhanna played better in those vital final moments. Well done to them.
Your like a broken record defending your counties structures. Everyone understands your structure...
Just not the fairness that 3 x Div 1 teams represented Cavan this year. It's bizarre
The irony, you never stop talking shite about it despite it being the same structure as in the vast vast majority of counties in Ireland. Well done to Cullyhanna, they looked bet out the gate until Ballyhaise gifted them a goal but they were the best team when it mattered in the last 5 minutes. Ballyhaise have a name for being bottlers and throwing that final away will be a very hard pill to swallow.
Who do the Cullies play now? Hardly b4 Christmas?
Congratulations Cullyhanna
Quote from: intheknowhow on December 10, 2023, 02:40:32 PMQuote from: Westside on December 10, 2023, 02:31:21 PMQuote from: general_lee on December 10, 2023, 02:26:51 PMWell done Cullyhanna, 3rd tier of Armagh beating top tier from Cavan.
Ballyhaise are Intermediate, in Cavan that's second tier. First tier in Cavan is Senior football. Ballyhaise will be there next year.
Ballyhaise didn't press their advantage and got caught. Cullyhanna played better in those vital final moments. Well done to them.
Your like a broken record defending your counties structures. Everyone understands your structure...
Just not the fairness that 3 x Div 1 teams represented Cavan this year. It's bizarre
Div 1 league. League and Championship aren't linked in Cavan.
As I've said, if we linked them we'd have sent Denn to Junior this year, they won it 2 years ago and Killygarry a top 4 Senior side would be going to Intermediate next year. They would be stronger than Arva and Ballyhaise.
There would be perceived lack of "fairness" either way.
Quote from: Westside on December 10, 2023, 02:51:06 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on December 10, 2023, 02:40:32 PMQuote from: Westside on December 10, 2023, 02:31:21 PMQuote from: general_lee on December 10, 2023, 02:26:51 PMWell done Cullyhanna, 3rd tier of Armagh beating top tier from Cavan.
Ballyhaise are Intermediate, in Cavan that's second tier. First tier in Cavan is Senior football. Ballyhaise will be there next year.
Ballyhaise didn't press their advantage and got caught. Cullyhanna played better in those vital final moments. Well done to them.
Your like a broken record defending your counties structures. Everyone understands your structure...
Just not the fairness that 3 x Div 1 teams represented Cavan this year. It's bizarre
Div 1 league. League and Championship aren't linked in Cavan.
As I've said, if we linked them we'd have sent Denn to Junior this year, they won it 2 years ago and Killygarry a top 4 Senior side would be going to Intermediate next year. They would be stronger than Arva and Ballyhaise.
There would be perceived lack of "fairness" either way.
And what's wrong with that?
I would argue the link is in fact your allowing teams play high standard of football.. if Arva had of played div 3 league they would not have the champ
Playing better opposition improves a team
Quote from: intheknowhow on December 10, 2023, 02:55:46 PMQuote from: Westside on December 10, 2023, 02:51:06 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on December 10, 2023, 02:40:32 PMQuote from: Westside on December 10, 2023, 02:31:21 PMQuote from: general_lee on December 10, 2023, 02:26:51 PMWell done Cullyhanna, 3rd tier of Armagh beating top tier from Cavan.
Ballyhaise are Intermediate, in Cavan that's second tier. First tier in Cavan is Senior football. Ballyhaise will be there next year.
Ballyhaise didn't press their advantage and got caught. Cullyhanna played better in those vital final moments. Well done to them.
Your like a broken record defending your counties structures. Everyone understands your structure...
Just not the fairness that 3 x Div 1 teams represented Cavan this year. It's bizarre
Div 1 league. League and Championship aren't linked in Cavan.
As I've said, if we linked them we'd have sent Denn to Junior this year, they won it 2 years ago and Killygarry a top 4 Senior side would be going to Intermediate next year. They would be stronger than Arva and Ballyhaise.
There would be perceived lack of "fairness" either way.
And what's wrong with that?
I would argue the link is in fact your allowing teams play high standard of football.. if Arva had of played div 3 league they would not have the champ
Playing better opposition improves a team
If playing higher Division improved Arva that much they wouldn't have been stuck in Junior for 2 years.
Ballyhaise wouldn't have been Intermediate for 4 years.
Some counties do things differently. Your way isn't any more fair than ours. Get over it.
Quote from: bennydorano on December 10, 2023, 02:50:08 PMWho do the Cullies play now? Hardly b4 Christmas?
Jan 6th I think. Dunno who
Quote from: tonto1888 on December 10, 2023, 03:07:46 PMQuote from: bennydorano on December 10, 2023, 02:50:08 PMWho do the Cullies play now? Hardly b4 Christmas?
Jan 6th I think. Dunno who
Allenwood Kildare on that date in the All Ireland semi final.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 10, 2023, 03:10:05 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on December 10, 2023, 03:07:46 PMQuote from: bennydorano on December 10, 2023, 02:50:08 PMWho do the Cullies play now? Hardly b4 Christmas?
Jan 6th I think. Dunno who
Allenwood Kildare on the that date in the All Ireland semi final.
They'll not be soft with John doyle still doing a bit of starring. Hopefully a good day on a good pitch, Croke Park would suit a team like Cullyhanna so much.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 10, 2023, 03:10:05 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on December 10, 2023, 03:07:46 PMQuote from: bennydorano on December 10, 2023, 02:50:08 PMWho do the Cullies play now? Hardly b4 Christmas?
Jan 6th I think. Dunno who
Allenwood Kildare on that date in the All Ireland semi final.
Intermediate and Junior semis are on the weekend of 6th/7th January.
Well done to Cullyhanna. Well deserved. Haven't a clue what any of the other provincial winners will be like but Munster generally very good. Take a strong strong team to beat Cullyhanna though.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2023, 07:16:42 PMWell done to Cullyhanna. Well deserved. Haven't a clue what any of the other provincial winners will be like but Munster generally very good. Take a strong strong team to beat Cullyhanna though.
Will be a Cullyhanna v Cill Na Martra Final. Cill Na Martra finished 5th in Cork Division 1. Castlehaven finished 4th. I mean what possible benefit could Cill Martra have playing the likes of Nemo Rangers in the league lol. Those Cork teams mentioned only have about 2-3 outfield players with the county panel so the standard is going to be high when they play each other in the league and so when one of them go to play in the provincial and All-Ireland Intermediate well then they are going to have a serious advantage no matter this sh*te about league and championship being separate.
Quote from: clarshack on December 10, 2023, 07:46:48 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2023, 07:16:42 PMWell done to Cullyhanna. Well deserved. Haven't a clue what any of the other provincial winners will be like but Munster generally very good. Take a strong strong team to beat Cullyhanna though.
Will be a Cullyhanna v Cill Na Martra Final. Cill Na Martra finished 5th in Cork Division 1. Castlehaven finished 4th. I mean what possible benefit could Cill Martra have playing the likes of Nemo Rangers in the league lol. Those Cork teams mentioned only have about 2-3 outfield players with the county panel so the standard is going to be high when they play each other in the league and so when one of them go to play in the provincial and All-Ireland Intermediate well then they are going to have a serious advantage no matter this sh*te about league and championship being separate.
You put too much thought into league competitions which isn't taken that serious with loads of players missing for one reason or another.
Stand out for Cill Na Martra was taking out Milltown Castlemaine against the odds so will be favourites to win the intermediate AI for that one championship result alone.
Quote from: clarshack on December 10, 2023, 07:46:48 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 10, 2023, 07:16:42 PMWell done to Cullyhanna. Well deserved. Haven't a clue what any of the other provincial winners will be like but Munster generally very good. Take a strong strong team to beat Cullyhanna though.
Will be a Cullyhanna v Cill Na Martra Final. Cill Na Martra finished 5th in Cork Division 1. Castlehaven finished 4th. I mean what possible benefit could Cill Martra have playing the likes of Nemo Rangers in the league lol. Those Cork teams mentioned only have about 2-3 outfield players with the county panel so the standard is going to be high when they play each other in the league and so when one of them go to play in the provincial and All-Ireland Intermediate well then they are going to have a serious advantage no matter this sh*te about league and championship being separate.
But league and championship ARE completely separate. What about that is so hard to understand?
Cill na Martra only won the Intermediate A (4th tier) in Cork in 2019 I think it was - and they had a hard time winning the premier intermediate also, losing a few semi finals.
In Kerry this year you had Ballymacelligott, a team who reached the top half of division 1, losing the Junior final to Listowel who did well to survive in Division 2.
League form from February to May has some relevance but things can change massively with county players returning, extra effort from students who aren't away in college and other factors. I really don't know how anybody can fail to understand this.
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on December 11, 2023, 12:25:13 AMBut league and championship ARE completely separate. What about that is so hard to understand?
Then there should be cases of Divsion 3 and 4 teams playing in a Senior Championship. can you provide any examples?
Quote from: clarshack on December 11, 2023, 11:46:41 AMQuote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on December 11, 2023, 12:25:13 AMBut league and championship ARE completely separate. What about that is so hard to understand?
Then there should be cases of Divsion 3 and 4 teams playing in a Senior Championship. can you provide any examples?
No problem. Douglas in Cork were division 3 league for a year or 2 and reached Senior county semi final in 2021. Bishopstown also Div 3 and play Senior A football.
John Mitchels in Kerry were playing Senior football and in Div 3 for a few years before dropping to intermediate eventually.
Any other questions?
Look they're called the biggest dwarf All-Irelands for a reason, there's going to be a skew, AI junior champions are more than likely an under-performing intermediate team every year, same for Intermediate winners in relation to Senior. But there's counties who go that bit further to ensure their reps are artificially strong, which rips the arse out of it, it also provides an insight into the county as a whole, Cavan want the easy road to cheap thrills, Kerry have no shame. Is about the height of it.
Quote from: tiempo on December 11, 2023, 04:22:38 PMLook they're called the biggest dwarf All-Irelands for a reason, there's going to be a skew, AI junior champions are more than likely an under-performing intermediate team every year, same for Intermediate winners in relation to Senior. But there's counties who go that bit further to ensure their reps are artificially strong, which rips the arse out of it, it also provides an insight into the county as a whole, Cavan want the easy road to cheap thrills, Kerry have no shame. Is about the height of it.
And the other 90% of counties are the same except the pure of heart northern teams who do everything so fair.
Quote from: Itchy on December 11, 2023, 04:54:19 PMQuote from: tiempo on December 11, 2023, 04:22:38 PMLook they're called the biggest dwarf All-Irelands for a reason, there's going to be a skew, AI junior champions are more than likely an under-performing intermediate team every year, same for Intermediate winners in relation to Senior. But there's counties who go that bit further to ensure their reps are artificially strong, which rips the arse out of it, it also provides an insight into the county as a whole, Cavan want the easy road to cheap thrills, Kerry have no shame. Is about the height of it.
And the other 90% of counties are the same except the pure of heart northern teams who do everything so fair.
Provincials, AI series is one thing, but it must be zero craic for most teams in the county junior championship. Leagues mean nothing and they've zero chance of competing with a Div 1 standard club in junior championship. Drop out rates must be hefty
I think that any team that's good enough to win their respective county championship at junior or intermediate level shouldn't be allowed to compete in the provincial series as they are clearly too good for that level having already beat all the other teams in their own county, so there's a good chance that they will beat all the other teams from the other counties and thus become provincial champions.
In some cases they are beating other teams by a lot as well.
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on December 11, 2023, 01:42:06 PMQuote from: clarshack on December 11, 2023, 11:46:41 AMQuote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on December 11, 2023, 12:25:13 AMBut league and championship ARE completely separate. What about that is so hard to understand?
Then there should be cases of Divsion 3 and 4 teams playing in a Senior Championship. can you provide any examples?
No problem. Douglas in Cork were division 3 league for a year or 2 and reached Senior county semi final in 2021. Bishopstown also Div 3 and play Senior A football.
John Mitchels in Kerry were playing Senior football and in Div 3 for a few years before dropping to intermediate eventually.
Any other questions?
Cork would always throw up an anomaly or two considering they've about a million clubs.
Quote from: Keyser soze on December 12, 2023, 09:29:40 AMI think that any team that's good enough to win their respective county championship at junior or intermediate level shouldn't be allowed to compete in the provincial series as they are clearly too good for that level having already beat all the other teams in their own county, so there's a good chance that they will beat all the other teams from the other counties and thus become provincial champions.
In some cases they are beating other teams by a lot as well.
Indeed and in the case of counties like Cavan and the other 28 counties that don't link Championship and league, they should not be allowed send a team forward that might beat an opponent from Tyrone, Armagh or Derry. The main reason for this is that the incessant moaning from those 3 counties will result in people losing the will to live and taking up other sports. I expect Jarlath Burns will make this a priority of his term in charge.
Quote from: general_lee on December 12, 2023, 10:18:18 AMQuote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on December 11, 2023, 01:42:06 PMQuote from: clarshack on December 11, 2023, 11:46:41 AMQuote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on December 11, 2023, 12:25:13 AMBut league and championship ARE completely separate. What about that is so hard to understand?
Then there should be cases of Divsion 3 and 4 teams playing in a Senior Championship. can you provide any examples?
No problem. Douglas in Cork were division 3 league for a year or 2 and reached Senior county semi final in 2021. Bishopstown also Div 3 and play Senior A football.
John Mitchels in Kerry were playing Senior football and in Div 3 for a few years before dropping to intermediate eventually.
Any other questions?
Cork would always throw up an anomaly or two considering they've about a million clubs.
I thought I read once that John Mitchells were a bit entitled and felt that they were a Senior club even though they were no longer good enough?
Quote from: Itchy on December 12, 2023, 10:18:21 AMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 12, 2023, 09:29:40 AMI think that any team that's good enough to win their respective county championship at junior or intermediate level shouldn't be allowed to compete in the provincial series as they are clearly too good for that level having already beat all the other teams in their own county, so there's a good chance that they will beat all the other teams from the other counties and thus become provincial champions.
In some cases they are beating other teams by a lot as well.
Indeed and in the case of counties like Cavan and the other 28 counties that don't link Championship and league, they should not be allowed send a team forward that might beat an opponent from Tyrone, Armagh or Derry. The main reason for this is that the incessant moaning from those 3 counties will result in people losing the will to live and taking up other sports. I expect Jarlath Burns will make this a priority of his term in charge.
Its just not fair so its not!!
Do SOMETHING!!
For all the crying the Cavan lads do and sending 3 division 1 clubs to represent the county they came out of it with an Ulster Junior and no more. Great to see
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 12, 2023, 11:10:02 AMFor all the crying the Cavan lads do and sending 3 division 1 clubs to represent the county they came out of it with an Ulster Junior and no more. Great to see
Its not all about winning lad, sure as an Armagh supporter surely you must know that.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 12, 2023, 11:10:02 AMFor all the crying the Cavan lads do and sending 3 division 1 clubs to represent the county they came out of it with an Ulster Junior and no more. Great to see
It wasn't the Cavan lads crying lol..
Could clear this whole mess up with 2 simple steps. Cavan D1 is renamed Ulster Junior and the Kerry Junior is rebranded as the World Series.
Quote from: tiempo on December 12, 2023, 12:52:57 PMCould clear this whole mess up with 2 simple steps. Cavan D1 is renamed Ulster Junior and the Kerry Junior is rebranded as the World Series.
And the other 26 counties with the same set up?
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 12, 2023, 11:10:02 AMFor all the crying the Cavan lads do and sending 3 division 1 clubs to represent the county they came out of it with an Ulster Junior and no more. Great to see
Doesn't that actually tell you that the clubs really are at the level they're at, and that League doesn't mean so much? Mad you can't see that
Cavan lads were doing no crying. As we knew well this would be a possibility. We've always been shite in Ulster club, and an odd situation with league setup this one year wasn't going to change that. You'll just have to accept League wasn't the issue here
Quote from: Itchy on December 12, 2023, 01:59:54 PMQuote from: tiempo on December 12, 2023, 12:52:57 PMCould clear this whole mess up with 2 simple steps. Cavan D1 is renamed Ulster Junior and the Kerry Junior is rebranded as the World Series.
And the other 26 counties with the same set up?
Quislings
Here is the problem in this whole Junior/Intermediate/Senior thing. Some counties Senior teams are only of intermediate standard or even junior if you compare them with others. It tends to be more stark in hurling, when clubs at Junior and Intermediate level come up against clubs from traditional hurling counties that are in essence good enough to win senior in many non traditional counties. So the whole thing needs rethinking to make it fairer and more competitive, you would probably need A and B comps. In all probability the status quo probably suits the calendar but thought should be given to grading counties for provincial and AI comps. It may well be fair that Cavan only enters the Junior and Intermediate, certainly fairer than 3 senior or division 1 clubs qualifying.
The hurling though drops teams down based on their county's standards. Football doesn't tend to do that. Outside the top tier of hurling counties I would say very few junior championship winners get to play in a provincial championship. (e.g. Castleblayney are in AI junior semi and are senior champions I think? the donegal team are senior donegal champions but intermediate ulster etc).
I think the difference is a bit starker in hurling. Dunno how you would grade this in the football. You have had antrim team win ulster, clare team munster, longford team leinster. Wouldn't happen in hurling.
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 12, 2023, 04:16:06 PMThe hurling though drops teams down based on their county's standards. Football doesn't tend to do that. Outside the top tier of hurling counties I would say very few junior championship winners get to play in a provincial championship. (e.g. Castleblayney are in AI junior semi and are senior champions I think? the donegal team are senior donegal champions but intermediate ulster etc).
I think the difference is a bit starker in hurling. Dunno how you would grade this in the football. You have had antrim team win ulster, clare team munster, longford team leinster. Wouldn't happen in hurling.
Yes that is correct hurling does do that, but When Craobh Run from Armagh won Ulster they were well beaten in the AI semi because they came. up against a Junior team from a traditional county that would probably win Senior in Armagh or Monaghan.
You couldn't grade football the same way they do in hurling
Take Éire Óg OF Carlow for example, didn't they win 4 or 5 leinster senior titles in a row? Carlow wouldn't have be graded senior if a hurling system was introduced
Look at st galls, clare have a few champions, the Longford champions etc.
The hurling works well as Naas have won ai intermediate, I think the mayo champions did too, Castleblayney have been in an AI final etc etc but I don't think it's comparable to the football. These teams, though Naas were an exception this year, would get tanked at senior level.
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 12, 2023, 04:21:27 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on December 12, 2023, 04:16:06 PMThe hurling though drops teams down based on their county's standards. Football doesn't tend to do that. Outside the top tier of hurling counties I would say very few junior championship winners get to play in a provincial championship. (e.g. Castleblayney are in AI junior semi and are senior champions I think? the donegal team are senior donegal champions but intermediate ulster etc).
I think the difference is a bit starker in hurling. Dunno how you would grade this in the football. You have had antrim team win ulster, clare team munster, longford team leinster. Wouldn't happen in hurling.
Yes that is correct hurling does do that, but When Craobh Run from Armagh won Ulster they were well beaten in the AI semi because they came. up against a Junior team from a traditional county that would probably win Senior in Armagh or Monaghan.
They were beat in England were they not? And not by an awful pile if i remember. Mind talking to lads at thag time and the English team had lads from likes of Tipp playing.
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 12, 2023, 04:16:06 PMThe hurling though drops teams down based on their county's standards. Football doesn't tend to do that. Outside the top tier of hurling counties I would say very few junior championship winners get to play in a provincial championship. (e.g. Castleblayney are in AI junior semi and are senior champions I think? the donegal team are senior donegal champions but intermediate ulster etc).
I think the difference is a bit starker in hurling. Dunno how you would grade this in the football. You have had antrim team win ulster, clare team munster, longford team leinster. Wouldn't happen in hurling.
Castleblayney lost the Monaghan final after winning it a pile of years in a row.
Setanta are indeed Donegal senior champions but only went into Intermediate this year because they won Junior last year by beating Glenarm in Celtic Park so they had to increase the grading for Donegal hurling.
Hurling is a different kettle of fish. No matter who wins Armagh's SHC the winners will always be intermediate standard. In reality Armagh has a couple of intermediate standard clubs (Keady & Middletown) a strong junior club (Cuchulainn) and the rest middling/lower junior standard (Derrynoose, Craobh Rua, Sean Treacy's, St Malachy's, Killeavy).
I think most people know where a club is really at, regardless of what grade they're masquerading at. Cullyhanna in Armagh for example had a lull for a few years but will stay senior going forward.
Quote from: tiempo on December 12, 2023, 12:52:57 PMCould clear this whole mess up with 2 simple steps. Cavan D1 is renamed Ulster Junior and the Kerry Junior is rebranded as the World Series.
😂😂😂 that's funny to be fair!
Bigger gap in junior hurling than football going by the first half here
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on January 13, 2024, 05:33:18 PMBigger gap in junior hurling than football going by the first half here
Watched that game, Kilkenny teams at Junior and Intermediate level are different gravy
Walter Walsh played like an intercounty player against a junior team.. the others stepped up and were relentless in tackling and chasing players down. Some decent scores at that level
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on January 13, 2024, 05:33:18 PMBigger gap in junior hurling than football going by the first half here
Part of the issue is that Cork send the winners of their 3rd and 5th tier hurling competitions to compete in the Munster/All-Ireland championships same as they do with the football.
This is all so the 2nd tier clubs can call themselves senior, and the 3rd and 4th tier clubs can call themselves intermediate.
Quote from: twohands!!! on January 14, 2024, 11:14:52 AMQuote from: Hoof Hearted on January 13, 2024, 05:33:18 PMBigger gap in junior hurling than football going by the first half here
Part of the issue is that Cork send the winners of their 3rd and 5th tier hurling competitions to compete in the Munster/All-Ireland championships same as they do with the football.
This is all so the 2nd tier clubs can call themselves senior, and the 3rd and 4th tier clubs can call themselves intermediate.
Outside of Kilkenny, Cork have are second on the list of winners in junior and intermediate hurling.
Club hurling in Cork is very good at lower grades, Kilkenny I think have senior intermediate junior and maybe junior b.
Wouldn't have anything near as many clubs as Cork but the standard is very high.
Christ there are some brain fart decisions in the game so far
Nervy start as expected for both teams but entertaining enough.
Arva have kicked some bad wides here.
Congratulations to Arva showed character to pull that off despite nearly kicking it away.
Before anyone plays the division 1 card regarding Arva, I'll let it be known that Ballymacelliot who came 3rd in division 1 in Kerry this year were beaten by Listowel in the junior final.
Does that make Arva a top 3 side in Kerry or does it show that League football is not the best metric to measure where a team is that?
Make of it what you will.
Best metric of a team, where did they finish in Division one in Cavan this year. I compare the same position to the equivalent league position team in Derry.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 14, 2024, 09:47:19 PMBest metric of a team, where did they finish in Division one in Cavan this year. I compare the same position to the equivalent league position team in Derry.
so you are saying Cavan and Derry Football are of the same standard?
I see they finished 13th, which would put them up against Lavey, I say Lavey beat them alright. The team they did play is 15+ placings below that.
you could stop the whole argument about intermediate and junior championships by scrapping them and just giving the intermediate and junior champions a place in the county's senior championships so there is a pathway for them to be provincial or all ireland champions.
Quote from: Eire90 on January 18, 2024, 06:59:53 AMyou could stop the whole argument about intermediate and junior championships by scrapping them and just giving the intermediate and junior champions a place in the county's senior championships so there is a pathway for them to be provincial or all ireland champions.
Intermediate champions already get a place (if they want it) in the counties senior championship I'd imagine in most counties
The competition serves up a great carrot, to win a final at Croke park with your teammates
People growing up as kids playing soccer in the streets, wanted to score the winner in the FA Cup final at Wembley. It the same thing now in GAA at all levels, scoring the winner at Croke park with your club, parish town or City
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 11:37:33 AMQuote from: Eire90 on January 18, 2024, 06:59:53 AMyou could stop the whole argument about intermediate and junior championships by scrapping them and just giving the intermediate and junior champions a place in the county's senior championships so there is a pathway for them to be provincial or all ireland champions.
Intermediate champions already get a place (if they want it) in the counties senior championship I'd imagine in most counties
The competition serves up a great carrot, to win a final at Croke park with your teammates
People growing up as kids playing soccer in the streets, wanted to score the winner in the FA Cup final at Wembley. It the same thing now in GAA at all levels, scoring the winner at Croke park with your club, parish town or City
No it's not, junior and intermediate aren't fit for purpose
Quote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:12:19 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 11:37:33 AMQuote from: Eire90 on January 18, 2024, 06:59:53 AMyou could stop the whole argument about intermediate and junior championships by scrapping them and just giving the intermediate and junior champions a place in the county's senior championships so there is a pathway for them to be provincial or all ireland champions.
Intermediate champions already get a place (if they want it) in the counties senior championship I'd imagine in most counties
The competition serves up a great carrot, to win a final at Croke park with your teammates
People growing up as kids playing soccer in the streets, wanted to score the winner in the FA Cup final at Wembley. It the same thing now in GAA at all levels, scoring the winner at Croke park with your club, parish town or City
No it's not, junior and intermediate aren't fit for purpose
Tell that to Cullyhanna and Arva...
Quote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:12:19 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 11:37:33 AMQuote from: Eire90 on January 18, 2024, 06:59:53 AMyou could stop the whole argument about intermediate and junior championships by scrapping them and just giving the intermediate and junior champions a place in the county's senior championships so there is a pathway for them to be provincial or all ireland champions.
Intermediate champions already get a place (if they want it) in the counties senior championship I'd imagine in most counties
The competition serves up a great carrot, to win a final at Croke park with your teammates
People growing up as kids playing soccer in the streets, wanted to score the winner in the FA Cup final at Wembley. It the same thing now in GAA at all levels, scoring the winner at Croke park with your club, parish town or City
No it's not, junior and intermediate aren't fit for purpose
Junior especially when you look at last year's and this year's winners.
Even the presenter on TG4 said to the Arva manager that it was unusual for a Junior club team to have 3 county men.
I'd be in favour of scrapping the 2 competitions tbh.
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 18, 2024, 03:25:15 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:12:19 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 11:37:33 AMQuote from: Eire90 on January 18, 2024, 06:59:53 AMyou could stop the whole argument about intermediate and junior championships by scrapping them and just giving the intermediate and junior champions a place in the county's senior championships so there is a pathway for them to be provincial or all ireland champions.
Intermediate champions already get a place (if they want it) in the counties senior championship I'd imagine in most counties
The competition serves up a great carrot, to win a final at Croke park with your teammates
People growing up as kids playing soccer in the streets, wanted to score the winner in the FA Cup final at Wembley. It the same thing now in GAA at all levels, scoring the winner at Croke park with your club, parish town or City
No it's not, junior and intermediate aren't fit for purpose
Tell that to Cullyhanna and Arva...
You're not within a country mile of the point
Quote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:39:20 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 18, 2024, 03:25:15 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:12:19 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 11:37:33 AMQuote from: Eire90 on January 18, 2024, 06:59:53 AMyou could stop the whole argument about intermediate and junior championships by scrapping them and just giving the intermediate and junior champions a place in the county's senior championships so there is a pathway for them to be provincial or all ireland champions.
Intermediate champions already get a place (if they want it) in the counties senior championship I'd imagine in most counties
The competition serves up a great carrot, to win a final at Croke park with your teammates
People growing up as kids playing soccer in the streets, wanted to score the winner in the FA Cup final at Wembley. It the same thing now in GAA at all levels, scoring the winner at Croke park with your club, parish town or City
No it's not, junior and intermediate aren't fit for purpose
Tell that to Cullyhanna and Arva...
You're not within a country mile of the point
They're great competitions. Yes they could do with tidying up the rules especially with the Kerry clubs but overall the positives far outweigh the negatives.
Cullyhanna is a wee village on the border that's been in the shadow of their black and amber neighbours for years. Stuff of dreams for those boys to get to win something in Croker with lads they grew up with.
Quote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:39:20 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 18, 2024, 03:25:15 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:12:19 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 11:37:33 AMQuote from: Eire90 on January 18, 2024, 06:59:53 AMyou could stop the whole argument about intermediate and junior championships by scrapping them and just giving the intermediate and junior champions a place in the county's senior championships so there is a pathway for them to be provincial or all ireland champions.
Intermediate champions already get a place (if they want it) in the counties senior championship I'd imagine in most counties
The competition serves up a great carrot, to win a final at Croke park with your teammates
People growing up as kids playing soccer in the streets, wanted to score the winner in the FA Cup final at Wembley. It the same thing now in GAA at all levels, scoring the winner at Croke park with your club, parish town or City
No it's not, junior and intermediate aren't fit for purpose
Tell that to Cullyhanna and Arva...
You're not within a country mile of the point
Its fit for purpose with one simple rule, no div 1 teams in intermediate or Junior for that matter and only div 3 or 4 teams can play Junior ..
Whatever way a county runs off its championship is up to them, but no team can enter the all Ireland series based on those simple enough rules, they must nominate a team, even Jimmy McGuinness could understand that set up!
That will encourage teams to actually play at their level ad not 'below'
Cork and Dublin could really mix it up with their A and B championships though, but to be fair to them as a county they haven't, Kerry are just ruining it ;D
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 04:04:55 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:39:20 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 18, 2024, 03:25:15 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:12:19 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 11:37:33 AMQuote from: Eire90 on January 18, 2024, 06:59:53 AMyou could stop the whole argument about intermediate and junior championships by scrapping them and just giving the intermediate and junior champions a place in the county's senior championships so there is a pathway for them to be provincial or all ireland champions.
Intermediate champions already get a place (if they want it) in the counties senior championship I'd imagine in most counties
The competition serves up a great carrot, to win a final at Croke park with your teammates
People growing up as kids playing soccer in the streets, wanted to score the winner in the FA Cup final at Wembley. It the same thing now in GAA at all levels, scoring the winner at Croke park with your club, parish town or City
No it's not, junior and intermediate aren't fit for purpose
Tell that to Cullyhanna and Arva...
You're not within a country mile of the point
Its fit for purpose with one simple rule, no div 1 teams in intermediate or Junior for that matter and only div 3 or 4 teams can play Junior ..
Whatever way a county runs off its championship is up to them, but no team can enter the all Ireland series based on those simple enough rules, they must nominate a team, even Jimmy McGuinness could understand that set up!
That will encourage teams to actually play at their level ad not 'below'
Cork and Dublin could really mix it up with their A and B championships though, but to be fair to them as a county they haven't, Kerry are just ruining it ;D
Seems fair. Say what you want about leagues but you wouldn't let a Div 1 inter county team play the Tailteann Cup
Quote from: intheknowhow on January 18, 2024, 04:57:33 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 04:04:55 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:39:20 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 18, 2024, 03:25:15 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:12:19 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 11:37:33 AMQuote from: Eire90 on January 18, 2024, 06:59:53 AMyou could stop the whole argument about intermediate and junior championships by scrapping them and just giving the intermediate and junior champions a place in the county's senior championships so there is a pathway for them to be provincial or all ireland champions.
Intermediate champions already get a place (if they want it) in the counties senior championship I'd imagine in most counties
The competition serves up a great carrot, to win a final at Croke park with your teammates
People growing up as kids playing soccer in the streets, wanted to score the winner in the FA Cup final at Wembley. It the same thing now in GAA at all levels, scoring the winner at Croke park with your club, parish town or City
No it's not, junior and intermediate aren't fit for purpose
Tell that to Cullyhanna and Arva...
You're not within a country mile of the point
Its fit for purpose with one simple rule, no div 1 teams in intermediate or Junior for that matter and only div 3 or 4 teams can play Junior ..
Whatever way a county runs off its championship is up to them, but no team can enter the all Ireland series based on those simple enough rules, they must nominate a team, even Jimmy McGuinness could understand that set up!
That will encourage teams to actually play at their level ad not 'below'
Cork and Dublin could really mix it up with their A and B championships though, but to be fair to them as a county they haven't, Kerry are just ruining it ;D
Seems fair. Say what you want about leagues but you wouldn't let a Div 1 inter county team play the Tailteann Cup
If a Div 1 side got relegated and ended up outside of the top 16 and didn't make a provincial final, where would you "put them"?
Then they aren't a division 1 side are they?
Quote from: Westside on January 18, 2024, 09:17:07 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on January 18, 2024, 04:57:33 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 04:04:55 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:39:20 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 18, 2024, 03:25:15 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:12:19 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 11:37:33 AMQuote from: Eire90 on January 18, 2024, 06:59:53 AMyou could stop the whole argument about intermediate and junior championships by scrapping them and just giving the intermediate and junior champions a place in the county's senior championships so there is a pathway for them to be provincial or all ireland champions.
Intermediate champions already get a place (if they want it) in the counties senior championship I'd imagine in most counties
The competition serves up a great carrot, to win a final at Croke park with your teammates
People growing up as kids playing soccer in the streets, wanted to score the winner in the FA Cup final at Wembley. It the same thing now in GAA at all levels, scoring the winner at Croke park with your club, parish town or City
No it's not, junior and intermediate aren't fit for purpose
Tell that to Cullyhanna and Arva...
You're not within a country mile of the point
Its fit for purpose with one simple rule, no div 1 teams in intermediate or Junior for that matter and only div 3 or 4 teams can play Junior ..
Whatever way a county runs off its championship is up to them, but no team can enter the all Ireland series based on those simple enough rules, they must nominate a team, even Jimmy McGuinness could understand that set up!
That will encourage teams to actually play at their level ad not 'below'
Cork and Dublin could really mix it up with their A and B championships though, but to be fair to them as a county they haven't, Kerry are just ruining it ;D
Seems fair. Say what you want about leagues but you wouldn't let a Div 1 inter county team play the Tailteann Cup
If a Div 1 side got relegated and ended up outside of the top 16 and didn't make a provincial final, where would you "put them"?
If they are playing div 1 that season they can't play junior or intermediate in the all Ireland series
Quote from: Westside on January 18, 2024, 09:53:44 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 18, 2024, 09:20:56 PMThen they aren't a division 1 side are they?
Bingo.
Did Avra play div 1 or div 2 football the same year they won Cavan Junior championship?
If so, under my proposal (Mr Burns if you're watching lol) they can't represent their country in provincial or all Ireland series
At what level is the intermediate and Junior teams from Dublin league wise.
I think Derry hurling has a rule in place to stop a team going below their level. Lavey won Junior in 2022 but couldn't play Ulster due to the rule so Na Magha represented them.
Quote from: SaffronSports on January 19, 2024, 01:23:23 AMI think Derry hurling has a rule in place to stop a team going below their level. Lavey won Junior in 2022 but couldn't play Ulster due to the rule so Na Magha represented them.
Think Hurling different given theres such a gap and the smaller numbers. I know our senior winners go to Ulster intermediate. (We only have senior and junior championships)
Hurling has some rule like if you win it you're not allowed in for the next 5 years or something. I *think*.
I'm not sure if that's derry or ulster hurling have that rule.
Derry had a hurling rule or two in place and the 5 year thing was in place in Ulster but was pulled back to 3 I think.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2024, 12:13:10 AMQuote from: Westside on January 18, 2024, 09:53:44 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 18, 2024, 09:20:56 PMThen they aren't a division 1 side are they?
Bingo.
Did Avra play div 1 or div 2 football the same year they won Cavan Junior championship?
If so, under my proposal (Mr Burns if you're watching lol) they can't represent their country in provincial or all Ireland series
They played div 1 last year and will again next year
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 04:04:55 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:39:20 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 18, 2024, 03:25:15 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:12:19 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 11:37:33 AMQuote from: Eire90 on January 18, 2024, 06:59:53 AMyou could stop the whole argument about intermediate and junior championships by scrapping them and just giving the intermediate and junior champions a place in the county's senior championships so there is a pathway for them to be provincial or all ireland champions.
Intermediate champions already get a place (if they want it) in the counties senior championship I'd imagine in most counties
The competition serves up a great carrot, to win a final at Croke park with your teammates
People growing up as kids playing soccer in the streets, wanted to score the winner in the FA Cup final at Wembley. It the same thing now in GAA at all levels, scoring the winner at Croke park with your club, parish town or City
No it's not, junior and intermediate aren't fit for purpose
Tell that to Cullyhanna and Arva...
You're not within a country mile of the point
Its fit for purpose with one simple rule, no div 1 teams in intermediate or Junior for that matter and only div 3 or 4 teams can play Junior ..
Whatever way a county runs off its championship is up to them, but no team can enter the all Ireland series based on those simple enough rules, they must nominate a team, even Jimmy McGuinness could understand that set up!
That will encourage teams to actually play at their level ad not 'below'
Cork and Dublin could really mix it up with their A and B championships though, but to be fair to them as a county they haven't, Kerry are just ruining it ;D
If people still have their knickers in a twist over the whole Arva thing then go get the rules changed for the sake of changing them, whatever. They have little to be at.
But that statement is a load of nonsense. Arva's priority would always have been championship. Winning the Junior championship was the only "encouragement" they'd ever have had. Took them a few years because that was their level, they couldn't rise "above" it. Your statement is implying there was something untoward going on, that they somehow designed this situation for unfair advantage. Other posters have implied this on here too. Need a serious bit of cop on.
This thread has been completely ruined by a shower of bigmouth MFs, none of whom have been to a single game in these competitions all year.
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 10:06:05 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 04:04:55 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:39:20 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 18, 2024, 03:25:15 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:12:19 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 11:37:33 AMQuote from: Eire90 on January 18, 2024, 06:59:53 AMyou could stop the whole argument about intermediate and junior championships by scrapping them and just giving the intermediate and junior champions a place in the county's senior championships so there is a pathway for them to be provincial or all ireland champions.
Intermediate champions already get a place (if they want it) in the counties senior championship I'd imagine in most counties
The competition serves up a great carrot, to win a final at Croke park with your teammates
People growing up as kids playing soccer in the streets, wanted to score the winner in the FA Cup final at Wembley. It the same thing now in GAA at all levels, scoring the winner at Croke park with your club, parish town or City
No it's not, junior and intermediate aren't fit for purpose
Tell that to Cullyhanna and Arva...
You're not within a country mile of the point
Its fit for purpose with one simple rule, no div 1 teams in intermediate or Junior for that matter and only div 3 or 4 teams can play Junior ..
Whatever way a county runs off its championship is up to them, but no team can enter the all Ireland series based on those simple enough rules, they must nominate a team, even Jimmy McGuinness could understand that set up!
That will encourage teams to actually play at their level ad not 'below'
Cork and Dublin could really mix it up with their A and B championships though, but to be fair to them as a county they haven't, Kerry are just ruining it ;D
If people still have their knickers in a twist over the whole Arva thing then go get the rules changed for the sake of changing them, whatever. They have little to be at.
But that statement is a load of nonsense. Arva's priority would always have been championship. Winning the Junior championship was the only "encouragement" they'd ever have had. Took them a few years because that was their level, they couldn't rise "above" it. Your statement is implying there was something untoward going on, that they somehow designed this situation for unfair advantage. Other posters have implied this on here too. Need a serious bit of cop on.
If that is there level how did they rise to div 1?
Quote from: intheknowhow on January 19, 2024, 11:22:27 AMQuote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 10:06:05 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 04:04:55 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:39:20 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 18, 2024, 03:25:15 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:12:19 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 11:37:33 AMQuote from: Eire90 on January 18, 2024, 06:59:53 AMyou could stop the whole argument about intermediate and junior championships by scrapping them and just giving the intermediate and junior champions a place in the county's senior championships so there is a pathway for them to be provincial or all ireland champions.
Intermediate champions already get a place (if they want it) in the counties senior championship I'd imagine in most counties
The competition serves up a great carrot, to win a final at Croke park with your teammates
People growing up as kids playing soccer in the streets, wanted to score the winner in the FA Cup final at Wembley. It the same thing now in GAA at all levels, scoring the winner at Croke park with your club, parish town or City
No it's not, junior and intermediate aren't fit for purpose
Tell that to Cullyhanna and Arva...
You're not within a country mile of the point
Its fit for purpose with one simple rule, no div 1 teams in intermediate or Junior for that matter and only div 3 or 4 teams can play Junior ..
Whatever way a county runs off its championship is up to them, but no team can enter the all Ireland series based on those simple enough rules, they must nominate a team, even Jimmy McGuinness could understand that set up!
That will encourage teams to actually play at their level ad not 'below'
Cork and Dublin could really mix it up with their A and B championships though, but to be fair to them as a county they haven't, Kerry are just ruining it ;D
If people still have their knickers in a twist over the whole Arva thing then go get the rules changed for the sake of changing them, whatever. They have little to be at.
But that statement is a load of nonsense. Arva's priority would always have been championship. Winning the Junior championship was the only "encouragement" they'd ever have had. Took them a few years because that was their level, they couldn't rise "above" it. Your statement is implying there was something untoward going on, that they somehow designed this situation for unfair advantage. Other posters have implied this on here too. Need a serious bit of cop on.
If that is there level how did they rise to div 1?
If Div 1 is their level why were they hammered in most games? Why couldn't they win out Div 2? Why couldn't they win Junior championship? Why give more weight to league when formatting championship?
I really couldn't give a shit answering these stupid questions. Like I said, if some want to change the formats and give more weight to completely different competitions, then go ahead if it stops them going on like auld grannies with pot sticks up their holes.
But I'll take issue with implying they was some cheating going on with some gran plan taking years in the making. Get a life.
I think it's fair to say that Arva are a middling to strong intermediate team that were (clearly) too strong for Junior and aren't a mile off being senior. It has been mildly enjoyable winding the Cavan men up and I look forward to seeing which Division 1 club wins Cavan JFC 2024 ;D
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 11:34:18 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on January 19, 2024, 11:22:27 AMQuote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 10:06:05 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 04:04:55 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:39:20 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 18, 2024, 03:25:15 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:12:19 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 11:37:33 AMQuote from: Eire90 on January 18, 2024, 06:59:53 AMyou could stop the whole argument about intermediate and junior championships by scrapping them and just giving the intermediate and junior champions a place in the county's senior championships so there is a pathway for them to be provincial or all ireland champions.
Intermediate champions already get a place (if they want it) in the counties senior championship I'd imagine in most counties
The competition serves up a great carrot, to win a final at Croke park with your teammates
People growing up as kids playing soccer in the streets, wanted to score the winner in the FA Cup final at Wembley. It the same thing now in GAA at all levels, scoring the winner at Croke park with your club, parish town or City
No it's not, junior and intermediate aren't fit for purpose
Tell that to Cullyhanna and Arva...
You're not within a country mile of the point
Its fit for purpose with one simple rule, no div 1 teams in intermediate or Junior for that matter and only div 3 or 4 teams can play Junior ..
Whatever way a county runs off its championship is up to them, but no team can enter the all Ireland series based on those simple enough rules, they must nominate a team, even Jimmy McGuinness could understand that set up!
That will encourage teams to actually play at their level ad not 'below'
Cork and Dublin could really mix it up with their A and B championships though, but to be fair to them as a county they haven't, Kerry are just ruining it ;D
If people still have their knickers in a twist over the whole Arva thing then go get the rules changed for the sake of changing them, whatever. They have little to be at.
But that statement is a load of nonsense. Arva's priority would always have been championship. Winning the Junior championship was the only "encouragement" they'd ever have had. Took them a few years because that was their level, they couldn't rise "above" it. Your statement is implying there was something untoward going on, that they somehow designed this situation for unfair advantage. Other posters have implied this on here too. Need a serious bit of cop on.
If that is there level how did they rise to div 1?
If Div 1 is their level why were they hammered in most games? Why couldn't they win out Div 2? Why couldn't they win Junior championship? Why give more weight to league when formatting championship?
I really couldn't give a shit answering these stupid questions. Like I said, if some want to change the formats and give more weight to completely different competitions, then go ahead if it stops them going on like auld grannies with pot sticks up their holes.
But I'll take issue with implying they was some cheating going on with some gran plan taking years in the making. Get a life.
You got up on the wrong side...
Well they are still div 1 this year so must be their level.
What a shocker!!! So you're telling me any team than wins out a competition are too good for that level and might actually be middling next level up? This is a lot to take in.
Quote from: general_lee on January 19, 2024, 11:39:35 AMI think it's fair to say that Arva are a middling to strong intermediate team that were (clearly) too strong for Junior and aren't a mile off being senior. It has been mildly enjoyable winding the Cavan men up and I look forward to seeing which Division 1 club wins Cavan JFC 2024 ;D
The funny thing about that is. The raging hot favourites for Cavan Junior this year are also a Division 1 team haha. That team being Knockbride they won the Ulster Junior League in 2023.
However they have been stuck in junior for about 12 years or more now and haven't been able to win a big game when it comes to the heat of championship.
They got promoted from Division 2 last year and they have no counties players either which helps when it comes to the diluted league competition and will bode well for them in division 1 next year provided they don't have any players going travellig etc.
Quote from: intheknowhow on January 19, 2024, 11:45:13 AMQuote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 11:34:18 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on January 19, 2024, 11:22:27 AMQuote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 10:06:05 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 04:04:55 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:39:20 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 18, 2024, 03:25:15 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:12:19 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 11:37:33 AMQuote from: Eire90 on January 18, 2024, 06:59:53 AMyou could stop the whole argument about intermediate and junior championships by scrapping them and just giving the intermediate and junior champions a place in the county's senior championships so there is a pathway for them to be provincial or all ireland champions.
Intermediate champions already get a place (if they want it) in the counties senior championship I'd imagine in most counties
The competition serves up a great carrot, to win a final at Croke park with your teammates
People growing up as kids playing soccer in the streets, wanted to score the winner in the FA Cup final at Wembley. It the same thing now in GAA at all levels, scoring the winner at Croke park with your club, parish town or City
No it's not, junior and intermediate aren't fit for purpose
Tell that to Cullyhanna and Arva...
You're not within a country mile of the point
Its fit for purpose with one simple rule, no div 1 teams in intermediate or Junior for that matter and only div 3 or 4 teams can play Junior ..
Whatever way a county runs off its championship is up to them, but no team can enter the all Ireland series based on those simple enough rules, they must nominate a team, even Jimmy McGuinness could understand that set up!
That will encourage teams to actually play at their level ad not 'below'
Cork and Dublin could really mix it up with their A and B championships though, but to be fair to them as a county they haven't, Kerry are just ruining it ;D
If people still have their knickers in a twist over the whole Arva thing then go get the rules changed for the sake of changing them, whatever. They have little to be at.
But that statement is a load of nonsense. Arva's priority would always have been championship. Winning the Junior championship was the only "encouragement" they'd ever have had. Took them a few years because that was their level, they couldn't rise "above" it. Your statement is implying there was something untoward going on, that they somehow designed this situation for unfair advantage. Other posters have implied this on here too. Need a serious bit of cop on.
If that is there level how did they rise to div 1?
If Div 1 is their level why were they hammered in most games? Why couldn't they win out Div 2? Why couldn't they win Junior championship? Why give more weight to league when formatting championship?
I really couldn't give a shit answering these stupid questions. Like I said, if some want to change the formats and give more weight to completely different competitions, then go ahead if it stops them going on like auld grannies with pot sticks up their holes.
But I'll take issue with implying they was some cheating going on with some gran plan taking years in the making. Get a life.
You got up on the wrong side...
Well they are still div 1 this year so must be their level.
Great logic. Finish rock bottom in one competition that's your level. Fail to win another you're 2 levels too low.
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 11:50:37 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on January 19, 2024, 11:45:13 AMQuote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 11:34:18 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on January 19, 2024, 11:22:27 AMQuote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 10:06:05 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 04:04:55 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:39:20 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 18, 2024, 03:25:15 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:12:19 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 11:37:33 AMQuote from: Eire90 on January 18, 2024, 06:59:53 AMyou could stop the whole argument about intermediate and junior championships by scrapping them and just giving the intermediate and junior champions a place in the county's senior championships so there is a pathway for them to be provincial or all ireland champions.
Intermediate champions already get a place (if they want it) in the counties senior championship I'd imagine in most counties
The competition serves up a great carrot, to win a final at Croke park with your teammates
People growing up as kids playing soccer in the streets, wanted to score the winner in the FA Cup final at Wembley. It the same thing now in GAA at all levels, scoring the winner at Croke park with your club, parish town or City
No it's not, junior and intermediate aren't fit for purpose
Tell that to Cullyhanna and Arva...
You're not within a country mile of the point
Its fit for purpose with one simple rule, no div 1 teams in intermediate or Junior for that matter and only div 3 or 4 teams can play Junior ..
Whatever way a county runs off its championship is up to them, but no team can enter the all Ireland series based on those simple enough rules, they must nominate a team, even Jimmy McGuinness could understand that set up!
That will encourage teams to actually play at their level ad not 'below'
Cork and Dublin could really mix it up with their A and B championships though, but to be fair to them as a county they haven't, Kerry are just ruining it ;D
If people still have their knickers in a twist over the whole Arva thing then go get the rules changed for the sake of changing them, whatever. They have little to be at.
But that statement is a load of nonsense. Arva's priority would always have been championship. Winning the Junior championship was the only "encouragement" they'd ever have had. Took them a few years because that was their level, they couldn't rise "above" it. Your statement is implying there was something untoward going on, that they somehow designed this situation for unfair advantage. Other posters have implied this on here too. Need a serious bit of cop on.
If that is there level how did they rise to div 1?
If Div 1 is their level why were they hammered in most games? Why couldn't they win out Div 2? Why couldn't they win Junior championship? Why give more weight to league when formatting championship?
I really couldn't give a shit answering these stupid questions. Like I said, if some want to change the formats and give more weight to completely different competitions, then go ahead if it stops them going on like auld grannies with pot sticks up their holes.
But I'll take issue with implying they was some cheating going on with some gran plan taking years in the making. Get a life.
You got up on the wrong side...
Well they are still div 1 this year so must be their level.
Great logic. Finish rock bottom in one competition that's your level. Fail to win another you're 2 levels too low.
They maintained div 1 status so that is their level. Pretty simple, even you Cavan folk could work that out.
This is a championship thread. There's some too simple on here think it's a league thread.
I mentioned it before, but the biggest issue seems to be they had played, and maintained their division 1 league status, and played in a junior championship.
Had it been intermediate championship they had won, I would say people, like myself, could reconcile more with that.
This is coming from my own point of view where, in Armagh, the leagues and championships are linked, the idea of a senior league team entering a junior championship would seem preposterous, and the outcome would be inevitable.
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:14:22 PMI mentioned it before, but the biggest issue seems to be they had played, and maintained their division 1 league status, and played in a junior championship.
Had it been intermediate championship they had won, I would say people, like myself, could reconcile more with that.
This is coming from my own point of view where, in Armagh, the leagues and championships are linked, the idea of a senior league team entering a junior championship would seem preposterous, and the outcome would be inevitable.
The only people who believe it's normal are Cavan people.
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:14:22 PMI mentioned it before, but the biggest issue seems to be they had played, and maintained their division 1 league status, and played in a junior championship.
Had it been intermediate championship they had won, I would say people, like myself, could reconcile more with that.
This is coming from my own point of view where, in Armagh, the leagues and championships are linked, the idea of a senior league team entering a junior championship would seem preposterous, and the outcome would be inevitable.
Just one caveat there though. By any league metric Arva are a div 2 side. It was a championship style one game knockout kept them there when they were completely adrift of everyone. So you absolutely cannot call them a senior side. That is completely disingenuous.
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 12:21:22 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:14:22 PMI mentioned it before, but the biggest issue seems to be they had played, and maintained their division 1 league status, and played in a junior championship.
Had it been intermediate championship they had won, I would say people, like myself, could reconcile more with that.
This is coming from my own point of view where, in Armagh, the leagues and championships are linked, the idea of a senior league team entering a junior championship would seem preposterous, and the outcome would be inevitable.
Just one caveat there though. By any league metric Arva are a div 2 side. It was a championship style one game knockout kept them there when they were completely adrift of everyone. So you absolutely cannot call them a senior side. That is completely disingenuous.
Elaborate?
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:36:05 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 12:21:22 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:14:22 PMI mentioned it before, but the biggest issue seems to be they had played, and maintained their division 1 league status, and played in a junior championship.
Had it been intermediate championship they had won, I would say people, like myself, could reconcile more with that.
This is coming from my own point of view where, in Armagh, the leagues and championships are linked, the idea of a senior league team entering a junior championship would seem preposterous, and the outcome would be inevitable.
Just one caveat there though. By any league metric Arva are a div 2 side. It was a championship style one game knockout kept them there when they were completely adrift of everyone. So you absolutely cannot call them a senior side. That is completely disingenuous.
Elaborate?
Finished rock bottom of league. In any league scenario this should mean relegation.
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 10:06:05 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 04:04:55 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:39:20 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 18, 2024, 03:25:15 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:12:19 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 11:37:33 AMQuote from: Eire90 on January 18, 2024, 06:59:53 AMyou could stop the whole argument about intermediate and junior championships by scrapping them and just giving the intermediate and junior champions a place in the county's senior championships so there is a pathway for them to be provincial or all ireland champions.
Intermediate champions already get a place (if they want it) in the counties senior championship I'd imagine in most counties
The competition serves up a great carrot, to win a final at Croke park with your teammates
People growing up as kids playing soccer in the streets, wanted to score the winner in the FA Cup final at Wembley. It the same thing now in GAA at all levels, scoring the winner at Croke park with your club, parish town or City
No it's not, junior and intermediate aren't fit for purpose
Tell that to Cullyhanna and Arva...
You're not within a country mile of the point
Its fit for purpose with one simple rule, no div 1 teams in intermediate or Junior for that matter and only div 3 or 4 teams can play Junior ..
Whatever way a county runs off its championship is up to them, but no team can enter the all Ireland series based on those simple enough rules, they must nominate a team, even Jimmy McGuinness could understand that set up!
That will encourage teams to actually play at their level ad not 'below'
Cork and Dublin could really mix it up with their A and B championships though, but to be fair to them as a county they haven't, Kerry are just ruining it ;D
If people still have their knickers in a twist over the whole Arva thing then go get the rules changed for the sake of changing them, whatever. They have little to be at.
But that statement is a load of nonsense. Arva's priority would always have been championship. Winning the Junior championship was the only "encouragement" they'd ever have had. Took them a few years because that was their level, they couldn't rise "above" it. Your statement is implying there was something untoward going on, that they somehow designed this situation for unfair advantage. Other posters have implied this on here too. Need a serious bit of cop on.
There's no cop on required. Playing div 1 and playing junior championship is not the norm up and down the country.
All I'm saying is any county can run their own championship whatever way they feel works for them. But, a div 1 league team shouldn't be playing in the provincial championship and beyond. A nominated div 3-4 team that's reached further than a div 2 team and Div 1 team..
There's no beef with Cavan or Avra, they've done nowt wrong
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 12:43:29 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:36:05 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 12:21:22 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:14:22 PMI mentioned it before, but the biggest issue seems to be they had played, and maintained their division 1 league status, and played in a junior championship.
Had it been intermediate championship they had won, I would say people, like myself, could reconcile more with that.
This is coming from my own point of view where, in Armagh, the leagues and championships are linked, the idea of a senior league team entering a junior championship would seem preposterous, and the outcome would be inevitable.
Just one caveat there though. By any league metric Arva are a div 2 side. It was a championship style one game knockout kept them there when they were completely adrift of everyone. So you absolutely cannot call them a senior side. That is completely disingenuous.
Elaborate?
Finished rock bottom of league. In any league scenario this should mean relegation.
But they were a (albeit struggling) division 1 team in 2023 and played junior championship.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2024, 12:44:59 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 10:06:05 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 04:04:55 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:39:20 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 18, 2024, 03:25:15 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:12:19 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 11:37:33 AMQuote from: Eire90 on January 18, 2024, 06:59:53 AMyou could stop the whole argument about intermediate and junior championships by scrapping them and just giving the intermediate and junior champions a place in the county's senior championships so there is a pathway for them to be provincial or all ireland champions.
Intermediate champions already get a place (if they want it) in the counties senior championship I'd imagine in most counties
The competition serves up a great carrot, to win a final at Croke park with your teammates
People growing up as kids playing soccer in the streets, wanted to score the winner in the FA Cup final at Wembley. It the same thing now in GAA at all levels, scoring the winner at Croke park with your club, parish town or City
No it's not, junior and intermediate aren't fit for purpose
Tell that to Cullyhanna and Arva...
You're not within a country mile of the point
Its fit for purpose with one simple rule, no div 1 teams in intermediate or Junior for that matter and only div 3 or 4 teams can play Junior ..
Whatever way a county runs off its championship is up to them, but no team can enter the all Ireland series based on those simple enough rules, they must nominate a team, even Jimmy McGuinness could understand that set up!
That will encourage teams to actually play at their level ad not 'below'
Cork and Dublin could really mix it up with their A and B championships though, but to be fair to them as a county they haven't, Kerry are just ruining it ;D
If people still have their knickers in a twist over the whole Arva thing then go get the rules changed for the sake of changing them, whatever. They have little to be at.
But that statement is a load of nonsense. Arva's priority would always have been championship. Winning the Junior championship was the only "encouragement" they'd ever have had. Took them a few years because that was their level, they couldn't rise "above" it. Your statement is implying there was something untoward going on, that they somehow designed this situation for unfair advantage. Other posters have implied this on here too. Need a serious bit of cop on.
There's no cop on required. Playing div 1 and playing junior championship is not the norm up and down the country.
All I'm saying is any county can run their own championship whatever way they feel works for them. But, a div 1 league team shouldn't be playing in the provincial championship and beyond. A nominated div 3-4 team that's reached further than a div 2 team and Div 1 team..
There's no beef with Cavan or Avra, they've done nowt wrong
I wouldn't be in favour of this but if it gets voted in that's the rules we'll go by.
We operate a 2 up 2 down in league, 1 up 1 down in championship so teams operating in different tiers for both competitions is completely normal for us. League playoffs instead of proper league standings might magnify the quirks at bit e.g as someone said Knockbride will play div1 next year but are still Junior. They finished 3rd in div2 but won a playoff.
I don't see the problem really. Complaining about other counties or team ranked 20 from county A playing team ranked 30 from count B is irrelevant. Counties are not standard units and clubs are not standard units. Absolutely no business comparing div1 in Cavan and say Dublin. AI Senior club championship is completely stacked with only a handful of elites capable of winning. Do we start handicapping some teams to make it "fairer" or just get on with it.
JFC and IFC have a much leveler playing field. So Kerry are strong in it. That's hardly surprising or worrying for a county with a huge GAA tradition and a huge rural population.
Maybe, just maybe, some here might realise that League is just different in most counties and not taken as seriously. The fact that teams play the whole thing (relegation play off excepted) with no county players, and that it's 2 up 2 down makes it different. A team can indeed get promoted while losing a final. So completely different than Championship when you go up only by winning the thing through. Isn't it more likely that teams not good enough go up a level? By that very metric, League placing are not as important than Championship ones. To get promoted in Championship, you've shown you're good enough in Championship. Same with relegation, be poor enough you go down. We cannot say the same about League.
This absolute knicker twisting about League is only new since inter county linked, and it's still mainly by Championship performance first - then League. Remember that the majority of the 16 Sam positions are still filled by Championship results with provincial final and Tailteann winners. That system rewards Championship, and only fills in the remaining minority with League to fill it up. Jeez, have you folk actually forgot what the GAA is about? It's Championship. I'll name you Cavan, Ulster, and All Ireland Champions off the top of my head going back at least 50 years. Can't tell you who won the various Leagues a few years back... That's tells you all
You simply have to accept that the anomaly in a county that doesn't link is the League. Not the other way round. Can you for a second look at it from the other direction and see that maybe it is Championship that begets Championship. Not this new League obsession that you don't understand and you try to twist to suit a narrative. If your county links, sure whatever. Go for it. But don't apply those standards to one who doesn't as teams would them otherwise try harder in League. Because it's not, they don't and you can't apply this retroactively. It's that simple
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 12:45:35 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 12:43:29 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:36:05 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 12:21:22 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:14:22 PMI mentioned it before, but the biggest issue seems to be they had played, and maintained their division 1 league status, and played in a junior championship.
Had it been intermediate championship they had won, I would say people, like myself, could reconcile more with that.
This is coming from my own point of view where, in Armagh, the leagues and championships are linked, the idea of a senior league team entering a junior championship would seem preposterous, and the outcome would be inevitable.
Just one caveat there though. By any league metric Arva are a div 2 side. It was a championship style one game knockout kept them there when they were completely adrift of everyone. So you absolutely cannot call them a senior side. That is completely disingenuous.
Elaborate?
Finished rock bottom of league. In any league scenario this should mean relegation.
But they were a (albeit struggling) division 1 team in 2023 and played junior championship.
Aye generally it does, in this case it didn't.
You can't argue that by all conceivable metrics they are a division 2 team based on their final league position, when the same county board that allowed them to play junior championship also allowed them the chance to stay in division 1 with a relegation playoff.
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 12:45:35 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 12:43:29 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:36:05 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 12:21:22 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:14:22 PMI mentioned it before, but the biggest issue seems to be they had played, and maintained their division 1 league status, and played in a junior championship.
Had it been intermediate championship they had won, I would say people, like myself, could reconcile more with that.
This is coming from my own point of view where, in Armagh, the leagues and championships are linked, the idea of a senior league team entering a junior championship would seem preposterous, and the outcome would be inevitable.
Just one caveat there though. By any league metric Arva are a div 2 side. It was a championship style one game knockout kept them there when they were completely adrift of everyone. So you absolutely cannot call them a senior side. That is completely disingenuous.
Elaborate?
Finished rock bottom of league. In any league scenario this should mean relegation.
But they were a (albeit struggling) division 1 team in 2023 and played junior championship.
Because they struggled to win Junior for long enough.
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 01:06:38 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 12:45:35 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 12:43:29 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:36:05 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 12:21:22 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:14:22 PMI mentioned it before, but the biggest issue seems to be they had played, and maintained their division 1 league status, and played in a junior championship.
Had it been intermediate championship they had won, I would say people, like myself, could reconcile more with that.
This is coming from my own point of view where, in Armagh, the leagues and championships are linked, the idea of a senior league team entering a junior championship would seem preposterous, and the outcome would be inevitable.
Just one caveat there though. By any league metric Arva are a div 2 side. It was a championship style one game knockout kept them there when they were completely adrift of everyone. So you absolutely cannot call them a senior side. That is completely disingenuous.
Elaborate?
Finished rock bottom of league. In any league scenario this should mean relegation.
But they were a (albeit struggling) division 1 team in 2023 and played junior championship.
Aye generally it does, in this case it didn't.
You can't argue that by all conceivable metrics they are a division 2 team based on their final league position, when the same county board that allowed them to play junior championship also allowed them the chance to stay in division 1 with a relegation playoff.
If I'm arguing anything at all it's that you can't argue by all conceivable metrics that they are a div1/senior side based on a knockout playoff ad hoc format to league, when the same knockout championship proper format has kept them Junior.
Quote from: Dreadnought on January 19, 2024, 01:06:21 PMMaybe, just maybe, some here might realise that League is just different in most counties and not taken as seriously. The fact that teams play the whole thing (relegation play off excepted) with no county players, and that it's 2 up 2 down makes it different. A team can indeed get promoted while losing a final. So completely different than Championship when you go up only by winning the thing through. Isn't it more likely that teams not good enough go up a level? By that very metric, League placing are not as important than Championship ones. To get promoted in Championship, you've shown you're good enough in Championship. Same with relegation, be poor enough you go down. We cannot say the same about League.
This absolute knicker twisting about League is only new since inter county linked, and it's still mainly by Championship performance first - then League. Remember that the majority of the 16 Sam positions are still filled by Championship results with provincial final and Tailteann winners. That system rewards Championship, and only fills in the remaining minority with League to fill it up. Jeez, have you folk actually forgot what the GAA is about? It's Championship. I'll name you Cavan, Ulster, and All Ireland Champions off the top of my head going back at least 50 years. Can't tell you who won the various Leagues a few years back... That's tells you all
You simply have to accept that the anomaly in a county that doesn't link is the League. Not the other way round. Can you for a second look at it from the other direction and see that maybe it is Championship that begets Championship. Not this new League obsession that you don't understand and you try to twist to suit a narrative. If your county links, sure whatever. Go for it. But don't apply those standards to one who doesn't as teams would them otherwise try harder in League. Because it's not, they don't and you can't apply this retroactively. It's that simple
I have said, regardless of the other bandwagon jumpers, that Cavan and Avra have done nowt wrong, how Cavan and Kerry run their championships is totally down to them and if it makes them a stronger county for that or allows players to concentrate on championship then brilliant.
But the other counties shouldn't have to run up against teams playing or preparing for a championship (regardless if they were rock bottom) while playing in the counties div 1 league, the level and effort required is higher. Kerry have milked the shit right out of it.
Other counties could have a monopoly of winning the All Ireland championships at intermediate and Junior but chose not too, namely Dublin and Cork
Is there any other county in Ireland where the Senior, intermediate and junior championship winners all came from the same league division?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2024, 01:30:13 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on January 19, 2024, 01:06:21 PMMaybe, just maybe, some here might realise that League is just different in most counties and not taken as seriously. The fact that teams play the whole thing (relegation play off excepted) with no county players, and that it's 2 up 2 down makes it different. A team can indeed get promoted while losing a final. So completely different than Championship when you go up only by winning the thing through. Isn't it more likely that teams not good enough go up a level? By that very metric, League placing are not as important than Championship ones. To get promoted in Championship, you've shown you're good enough in Championship. Same with relegation, be poor enough you go down. We cannot say the same about League.
This absolute knicker twisting about League is only new since inter county linked, and it's still mainly by Championship performance first - then League. Remember that the majority of the 16 Sam positions are still filled by Championship results with provincial final and Tailteann winners. That system rewards Championship, and only fills in the remaining minority with League to fill it up. Jeez, have you folk actually forgot what the GAA is about? It's Championship. I'll name you Cavan, Ulster, and All Ireland Champions off the top of my head going back at least 50 years. Can't tell you who won the various Leagues a few years back... That's tells you all
You simply have to accept that the anomaly in a county that doesn't link is the League. Not the other way round. Can you for a second look at it from the other direction and see that maybe it is Championship that begets Championship. Not this new League obsession that you don't understand and you try to twist to suit a narrative. If your county links, sure whatever. Go for it. But don't apply those standards to one who doesn't as teams would them otherwise try harder in League. Because it's not, they don't and you can't apply this retroactively. It's that simple
I have said, regardless of the other bandwagon jumpers, that Cavan and Avra have done nowt wrong, how Cavan and Kerry run their championships is totally down to them and if it makes them a stronger county for that or allows players to concentrate on championship then brilliant.
But the other counties shouldn't have to run up against teams playing or preparing for a championship (regardless if they were rock bottom) while playing in the counties div 1 league, the level and effort required is higher. Kerry have milked the shit right out of it.
Other counties could have a monopoly of winning the All Ireland championships at intermediate and Junior but chose not too, namely Dublin and Cork
How are you still not getting it? You are still valuing League placings higher than you should. You simply need to look past placings in a devalued competition, and instead look at the actual top level way of seeing placings - Championship.
Quote from: Dreadnought on January 19, 2024, 01:43:50 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2024, 01:30:13 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on January 19, 2024, 01:06:21 PMMaybe, just maybe, some here might realise that League is just different in most counties and not taken as seriously. The fact that teams play the whole thing (relegation play off excepted) with no county players, and that it's 2 up 2 down makes it different. A team can indeed get promoted while losing a final. So completely different than Championship when you go up only by winning the thing through. Isn't it more likely that teams not good enough go up a level? By that very metric, League placing are not as important than Championship ones. To get promoted in Championship, you've shown you're good enough in Championship. Same with relegation, be poor enough you go down. We cannot say the same about League.
This absolute knicker twisting about League is only new since inter county linked, and it's still mainly by Championship performance first - then League. Remember that the majority of the 16 Sam positions are still filled by Championship results with provincial final and Tailteann winners. That system rewards Championship, and only fills in the remaining minority with League to fill it up. Jeez, have you folk actually forgot what the GAA is about? It's Championship. I'll name you Cavan, Ulster, and All Ireland Champions off the top of my head going back at least 50 years. Can't tell you who won the various Leagues a few years back... That's tells you all
You simply have to accept that the anomaly in a county that doesn't link is the League. Not the other way round. Can you for a second look at it from the other direction and see that maybe it is Championship that begets Championship. Not this new League obsession that you don't understand and you try to twist to suit a narrative. If your county links, sure whatever. Go for it. But don't apply those standards to one who doesn't as teams would them otherwise try harder in League. Because it's not, they don't and you can't apply this retroactively. It's that simple
I have said, regardless of the other bandwagon jumpers, that Cavan and Avra have done nowt wrong, how Cavan and Kerry run their championships is totally down to them and if it makes them a stronger county for that or allows players to concentrate on championship then brilliant.
But the other counties shouldn't have to run up against teams playing or preparing for a championship (regardless if they were rock bottom) while playing in the counties div 1 league, the level and effort required is higher. Kerry have milked the shit right out of it.
Other counties could have a monopoly of winning the All Ireland championships at intermediate and Junior but chose not too, namely Dublin and Cork
How are you still not getting it? You are still valuing League placings higher than you should. You simply need to look past placings in a devalued competition, and instead look at the actual top level way of seeing placings - Championship.
You are the one not getting it.... Every single post is just denial.. bla bla this is how we do things in Cavan.. bla bla we don't link our league and champ.. bla bla how can no one understand this? FS we all understand what you're saying.....
Quote from: general_lee on January 19, 2024, 01:41:41 PMIs there any other county in Ireland where the Senior, intermediate and junior championship winners all came from the same league division?
I'm not sure but the 3rd ranked team in Division 1 in Kerry couldn't even win Junior.
I'm not a Cavan man but I actually think the way they organise their championship and don't link it to another competition is the best way to do it. To progress from junior to intermediate championship you should have to win the junior championship. The leagues should be a totally separate competition, especially now with the split season. I'm from Armagh and don't like our current system at all, but I accept I'm in the minority. We should also accept every county organises their competitions differently and leave them to it.
As things stand in Derry, Division 2 Lavey could win the Senior Championship whilst Division 1 Ballinderry could win Intermediate Championship.
Would Lavey then be deemed too weak for USFC and Ballinderry too strong for UIFC?
If a club wins a championship at their level let them compete at provincial and All-Ireland level if they get that far and let them enjoy it - you'll always end up with a winner who is stronger than the rest be it because they play Division 1 football in their home county or they got an influx of players returning, transferring or coming through at underage.
A lot more people on the board can follow Cavan football this year to test if Avra are simply a very good junior side or the system was skewed in their favour.
Quote from: ranch on January 19, 2024, 02:40:14 PMI'm not a Cavan man but I actually think the way they organise their championship and don't link it to another competition is the best way to do it. To progress from junior to intermediate championship you should have to win the junior championship. The leagues should be a totally separate competition, especially now with the split season. I'm from Armagh and don't like our current system at all, but I accept I'm in the minority. We should also accept every county organises their competitions differently and leave them to it.
I would kind of be like this too. Reading some of the posts here you would think Arva have been throwing games for years to get to this position.
The split season has a massive impact on leagues. Clubs with very few county players will have over inflated league positions and the flip side of that will probably apply too. Arguably it was like that anyway tbh.
Quote from: ranch on January 19, 2024, 02:40:14 PMI'm not a Cavan man but I actually think the way they organise their championship and don't link it to another competition is the best way to do it. To progress from junior to intermediate championship you should have to win the junior championship. The leagues should be a totally separate competition, especially now with the split season. I'm from Armagh and don't like our current system at all, but I accept I'm in the minority. We should also accept every county organises their competitions differently and leave them to it.
That's the way Armagh was for years, we left it behind. The current format is what, maybe 8-10 years on the go? (I'm really not sure)
Quote from: intheknowhow on January 19, 2024, 02:02:37 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on January 19, 2024, 01:43:50 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2024, 01:30:13 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on January 19, 2024, 01:06:21 PMMaybe, just maybe, some here might realise that League is just different in most counties and not taken as seriously. The fact that teams play the whole thing (relegation play off excepted) with no county players, and that it's 2 up 2 down makes it different. A team can indeed get promoted while losing a final. So completely different than Championship when you go up only by winning the thing through. Isn't it more likely that teams not good enough go up a level? By that very metric, League placing are not as important than Championship ones. To get promoted in Championship, you've shown you're good enough in Championship. Same with relegation, be poor enough you go down. We cannot say the same about League.
This absolute knicker twisting about League is only new since inter county linked, and it's still mainly by Championship performance first - then League. Remember that the majority of the 16 Sam positions are still filled by Championship results with provincial final and Tailteann winners. That system rewards Championship, and only fills in the remaining minority with League to fill it up. Jeez, have you folk actually forgot what the GAA is about? It's Championship. I'll name you Cavan, Ulster, and All Ireland Champions off the top of my head going back at least 50 years. Can't tell you who won the various Leagues a few years back... That's tells you all
You simply have to accept that the anomaly in a county that doesn't link is the League. Not the other way round. Can you for a second look at it from the other direction and see that maybe it is Championship that begets Championship. Not this new League obsession that you don't understand and you try to twist to suit a narrative. If your county links, sure whatever. Go for it. But don't apply those standards to one who doesn't as teams would them otherwise try harder in League. Because it's not, they don't and you can't apply this retroactively. It's that simple
I have said, regardless of the other bandwagon jumpers, that Cavan and Avra have done nowt wrong, how Cavan and Kerry run their championships is totally down to them and if it makes them a stronger county for that or allows players to concentrate on championship then brilliant.
But the other counties shouldn't have to run up against teams playing or preparing for a championship (regardless if they were rock bottom) while playing in the counties div 1 league, the level and effort required is higher. Kerry have milked the shit right out of it.
Other counties could have a monopoly of winning the All Ireland championships at intermediate and Junior but chose not too, namely Dublin and Cork
How are you still not getting it? You are still valuing League placings higher than you should. You simply need to look past placings in a devalued competition, and instead look at the actual top level way of seeing placings - Championship.
You are the one not getting it.... Every single post is just denial.. bla bla this is how we do things in Cavan.. bla bla we don't link our league and champ.. bla bla how can no one understand this? FS we all understand what you're saying.....
Buddy, every one of yours posts this thread here is bla bla, crying, bla bla. You not exhausted crying about League being everything? Dry up
Quote from: bennydorano on January 19, 2024, 03:18:31 PMQuote from: ranch on January 19, 2024, 02:40:14 PMI'm not a Cavan man but I actually think the way they organise their championship and don't link it to another competition is the best way to do it. To progress from junior to intermediate championship you should have to win the junior championship. The leagues should be a totally separate competition, especially now with the split season. I'm from Armagh and don't like our current system at all, but I accept I'm in the minority. We should also accept every county organises their competitions differently and leave them to it.
That's the way Armagh was for years, we left it behind. The current format is what, maybe 8-10 years on the go? (I'm really not sure)
Think our system works really well- 8 team league divisions with the a/b split leaves teams at a similar level and less hammerings and still having 2 up and 2 down means theres less chance of dead rubbers towards end of the league.
Would prefer a straight knock out championship to the group stages though but don't mind teams getting those extra few games so see the reason for it.
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 03:37:36 PMQuote from: bennydorano on January 19, 2024, 03:18:31 PMQuote from: ranch on January 19, 2024, 02:40:14 PMI'm not a Cavan man but I actually think the way they organise their championship and don't link it to another competition is the best way to do it. To progress from junior to intermediate championship you should have to win the junior championship. The leagues should be a totally separate competition, especially now with the split season. I'm from Armagh and don't like our current system at all, but I accept I'm in the minority. We should also accept every county organises their competitions differently and leave them to it.
That's the way Armagh was for years, we left it behind. The current format is what, maybe 8-10 years on the go? (I'm really not sure)
Think our system works really well- 8 team league divisions with the a/b split leaves teams at a similar level and less hammerings and still having 2 up and 2 down means theres less chance of dead rubbers towards end of the league.
Would prefer a straight knock out championship to the group stages though but don't mind teams getting those extra few games so see the reason for it.
I don't agree with this A/B crap. Your either division 1 or 2 or 3. Hurling leagues are split this way and no one gives a toss about them.
Best thing Inter County Gaelic football did was go to the 4 divisions, 10 or 15 years ago.
Why do Cavan have a league format in the first place? Are they just glorified friendlies?
So County players are removed from their clubs until Cavan are out of any tournament they are in?
Not that it matters and as I've said what Cavan do is what they are comfortable with, Kerry have been lambasted for years with their Championships and so on, so expect people to question how things are done and the results from it.
Championship is the only show in town in any county, yes others may link in league positions and so on, but no one remembers the league winners
I'd mentioned star games before and obviously thats not a thing in every county, but essentially star games are the only ones that county with regards to points in the league.
Star games will have the county players available due to the fixtures and timings between county games, these lads can play with their clubs so that the club (who bring these lads up from under age) play their best players and get some form ready for championship and allow managers to see their best 15
Must be handy for the managers during the year in Cavan with just a few Championship games to prepare for ;)
How are teams relegated to Intermediate and Junior championships in Cavan? I understand winning is the pathway to the level above, but how do you go about going down?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2024, 04:19:33 PMWhy do Cavan have a league format in the first place? Are they just glorified friendlies?
So County players are removed from their clubs until Cavan are out of any tournament they are in?
Not that it matters and as I've said what Cavan do is what they are comfortable with, Kerry have been lambasted for years with their Championships and so on, so expect people to question how things are done and the results from it.
Championship is the only show in town in any county, yes others may link in league positions and so on, but no one remembers the league winners
I'd mentioned star games before and obviously thats not a thing in every county, but essentially star games are the only ones that county with regards to points in the league.
Star games will have the county players available due to the fixtures and timings between county games, these lads can play with their clubs so that the club (who bring these lads up from under age) play their best players and get some form ready for championship and allow managers to see their best 15
Must be handy for the managers during the year in Cavan with just a few Championship games to prepare for ;)
I wouldn't say league is treated like challenge games in Cavan but its not the same competition it was before the split season was brought in.
Teams with a large number of county players will struggle big time in the leagues in Cavan. But in fairness to the county board they have introduced a playoff system for the top 4 and bottom 4 for relegation and promotion. So this gives teams a chance to redeem themselves when they have all theire county players available. So you could lose all 12 or 13 games in the league but if you win your playoff you will stay up. Something similar to what Arva did.
Arva got promoted from Division 2 when they had only Ciaran Brady on the county panel now they have 3 or 4 on the panel and another 2-3 on the U20's so this makes them considerably weaker.
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 04:25:52 PMHow are teams relegated to Intermediate and Junior championships in Cavan? I understand winning is the pathway to the level above, but how do you go about going down?
Bottom 4 in the championship table playoff and then the 2 losers playoff.
For example in Senior 8v12 and 9v10 then the two losers play each other.
It's really blowing my mind that people cannot grasp a non link between league and championship AND have to be told how teams get relegated from championship on top of that!
Education system up North?
🤪
Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on January 19, 2024, 04:01:15 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 03:37:36 PMQuote from: bennydorano on January 19, 2024, 03:18:31 PMQuote from: ranch on January 19, 2024, 02:40:14 PMI'm not a Cavan man but I actually think the way they organise their championship and don't link it to another competition is the best way to do it. To progress from junior to intermediate championship you should have to win the junior championship. The leagues should be a totally separate competition, especially now with the split season. I'm from Armagh and don't like our current system at all, but I accept I'm in the minority. We should also accept every county organises their competitions differently and leave them to it.
That's the way Armagh was for years, we left it behind. The current format is what, maybe 8-10 years on the go? (I'm really not sure)
Think our system works really well- 8 team league divisions with the a/b split leaves teams at a similar level and less hammerings and still having 2 up and 2 down means theres less chance of dead rubbers towards end of the league.
Would prefer a straight knock out championship to the group stages though but don't mind teams getting those extra few games so see the reason for it.
I don't agree with this A/B crap. Your either division 1 or 2 or 3. Hurling leagues are split this way and no one gives a toss about them.
Best thing Inter County Gaelic football did was go to the 4 divisions, 10 or 15 years ago.
works really well for us. For example the top 2 teams in Armagh league were Cross and Clann Eirean last year. 15/16 were Shane O'Neills and Grange. The bottom 2 are a lot closer to intermediate level than they would be to top of senior. Because the league is split into 8 instead of 16 Shanes and Grange were able to play teams closer to their own level and so were Cross and Clann Eireann. Gives more competitive and meaningful games imo.
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 04:25:52 PMHow are teams relegated to Intermediate and Junior championships in Cavan? I understand winning is the pathway to the level above, but how do you go about going down?
1 up 1 down. Essentially the bottom 4 in the group stages play off in relegation semi finals, and then losers play relegation final when the Championship quarters, semi etc are ongoing. So overall loser relegated and replaced by below Championship winner. You have to win to move up, lose to move down
Only exception to this is when rejigging numbers, and the odd year you relegate 2 and so on. Covid also messed it here when none were relegated in 2020, but had a promotion, so 2 were relegated in 2021 and so on to rejig numbers across the 3 Championships
Quote from: Dreadnought on January 19, 2024, 05:28:41 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 04:25:52 PMHow are teams relegated to Intermediate and Junior championships in Cavan? I understand winning is the pathway to the level above, but how do you go about going down?
1 up 1 down. Essentially the bottom 4 in the group stages play off in relegation semi finals, and then losers play relegation final when the Championship quarters, semi etc are ongoing. So overall loser relegated and replaced by below Championship winner. You have to win to move up, lose to move down
Only exception to this is when rejigging numbers, and the odd year you relegate 2 and so on. Covid also messed it here when none were relegated in 2020, but had a promotion, so 2 were relegated in 2021 and so on to rejig numbers across the 3 Championships
Your league is a farce so and handy for outside managers to make a few bob. Mess about in the league and win an odd game in champ and your grand.
Lose a few games in Monaghan and Tyrone in the league and your gone,you get found out pretty quick.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2024, 04:19:33 PMWhy do Cavan have a league format in the first place? Are they just glorified friendlies?
So County players are removed from their clubs until Cavan are out of any tournament they are in?
Not that it matters and as I've said what Cavan do is what they are comfortable with, Kerry have been lambasted for years with their Championships and so on, so expect people to question how things are done and the results from it.
Championship is the only show in town in any county, yes others may link in league positions and so on, but no one remembers the league winners
I'd mentioned star games before and obviously thats not a thing in every county, but essentially star games are the only ones that county with regards to points in the league.
Star games will have the county players available due to the fixtures and timings between county games, these lads can play with their clubs so that the club (who bring these lads up from under age) play their best players and get some form ready for championship and allow managers to see their best 15
Must be handy for the managers during the year in Cavan with just a few Championship games to prepare for ;)
It's not challenge games, but has been devalued alright. It's still the bulk of of games per year for the 99%, the club player. And it is respected and played well. But it's not like before. The 12/13 games (except playoffs) are without county players. This is where the split season hasn't worked. At least before, post League on April and early May, County players were back and played games. The fact that after the inter county season finishes, there's no time for a proper club season. In Cavan at least, it's Championship time by early August. So League has suffered as a consequence. Hence why when the above say about League, it makes me roll my eyes as the 2 competitions couldn't be more different hence why we go by Championship only
The League is hardly a friendly competition. Players who don't perform will not be in contention for a championship start. Winning a league is a nice feather for a manager so long as he doesn't flop come championship. Same as performing poorly in the league will either be forgiven if you go well in championship, or it will be used as a stick to further beat a manager with if he also performs poorly come championship. But this is all old news to any GAA fan. I think some on here are being deliberately disingenuous.
And just on the unavailability of county players for league. "County player" is a bit of a stretch. Lads not within an ass's roar of a match day panel, basically anyone sniffing around a county panel will be kicked off it if they play club league. This is something I completely and utterly disagree with and really annoys me but was introduced by, funnily enough a Tyrone man and his Monaghan side kick. Then the new man after them kept it going.
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 06:05:05 PMThe League is hardly a friendly competition. Players who don't perform will not be in contention for a championship start. Winning a league is a nice feather for a manager so long as he doesn't flop come championship. Same as performing poorly in the league will either be forgiven if you go well in championship, or it will be used as a stick to further beat a manager with if he also performs poorly come championship. But this is all old news to any GAA fan. I think some on here are being deliberately disingenuous.
And just on the unavailability of county players for league. "County player" is a bit of a stretch. Lads not within an ass's roar of a match day panel, basically anyone sniffing around a county panel will be kicked off it if they play club league. This is something I completely and utterly disagree with and really annoys me but was introduced by, funnily enough a Tyrone man and his Monaghan side kick. Then the new man after them kept it going.
Annoys me as well. Would do those lads far better to be getting football every week instead of managers sickening them with training
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 05:26:42 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on January 19, 2024, 04:01:15 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 03:37:36 PMQuote from: bennydorano on January 19, 2024, 03:18:31 PMQuote from: ranch on January 19, 2024, 02:40:14 PMI'm not a Cavan man but I actually think the way they organise their championship and don't link it to another competition is the best way to do it. To progress from junior to intermediate championship you should have to win the junior championship. The leagues should be a totally separate competition, especially now with the split season. I'm from Armagh and don't like our current system at all, but I accept I'm in the minority. We should also accept every county organises their competitions differently and leave them to it.
That's the way Armagh was for years, we left it behind. The current format is what, maybe 8-10 years on the go? (I'm really not sure)
Think our system works really well- 8 team league divisions with the a/b split leaves teams at a similar level and less hammerings and still having 2 up and 2 down means theres less chance of dead rubbers towards end of the league.
Would prefer a straight knock out championship to the group stages though but don't mind teams getting those extra few games so see the reason for it.
I don't agree with this A/B crap. Your either division 1 or 2 or 3. Hurling leagues are split this way and no one gives a toss about them.
Best thing Inter County Gaelic football did was go to the 4 divisions, 10 or 15 years ago.
works really well for us. For example the top 2 teams in Armagh league were Cross and Clann Eirean last year. 15/16 were Shane O'Neills and Grange. The bottom 2 are a lot closer to intermediate level than they would be to top of senior. Because the league is split into 8 instead of 16 Shanes and Grange were able to play teams closer to their own level and so were Cross and Clann Eireann. Gives more competitive and meaningful games imo.
I'd question how well it works given that clubs are being relegated and punished for having county players. If the league and championships weren't linked I'd be okay with it but it's part of the reason a club like Cullyhanna are keen to change the set up now. It also affects the seedings come the group stage of the championship too which is something that should be tidied up. I'd prefer a system like the one in Cavan as I think the championship should dictate what championship you play in the following year, but each to their own.
Ps - didn't Madden play CE in a league decider in 2023, with Cross out of the running by the final game?
PPS- to answer an earlier query, 2011 was the final year of the old league set up. Over the course of the next 3 years the championships and leagues were aligned, negatively impacting a club like Forkhill for example who probably would have won a junior championship, but instead found themselves at intermediate championship level, followed by senior championship, as they kept going on good runs in the league (before A/B was brought in, this was originally only at Junior league level). I know a few Forkhill lads who weren't happy about it. The old set up probably would have seen them reach div 2 with a junior championship along the way, and a crack at the intermediate for a few years, before probably finding their level at division 3 again.
Quote from: intheknowhow on January 19, 2024, 05:42:03 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on January 19, 2024, 05:28:41 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 04:25:52 PMHow are teams relegated to Intermediate and Junior championships in Cavan? I understand winning is the pathway to the level above, but how do you go about going down?
1 up 1 down. Essentially the bottom 4 in the group stages play off in relegation semi finals, and then losers play relegation final when the Championship quarters, semi etc are ongoing. So overall loser relegated and replaced by below Championship winner. You have to win to move up, lose to move down
Only exception to this is when rejigging numbers, and the odd year you relegate 2 and so on. Covid also messed it here when none were relegated in 2020, but had a promotion, so 2 were relegated in 2021 and so on to rejig numbers across the 3 Championships
Your league is a farce so and handy for outside managers to make a few bob. Mess about in the league and win an odd game in champ and your grand.
Lose a few games in Monaghan and Tyrone in the league and your gone,you get found out pretty quick.
Yes, mostly. Not for the everyday club player, but mostly. Split season the issue here overall. Glad you've finally caught up
Managers still lose their jobs. Might not be as valued, but you can't lose all your games either. My own team cut their manager mid League last season.
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 06:28:30 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 06:05:05 PMThe League is hardly a friendly competition. Players who don't perform will not be in contention for a championship start. Winning a league is a nice feather for a manager so long as he doesn't flop come championship. Same as performing poorly in the league will either be forgiven if you go well in championship, or it will be used as a stick to further beat a manager with if he also performs poorly come championship. But this is all old news to any GAA fan. I think some on here are being deliberately disingenuous.
And just on the unavailability of county players for league. "County player" is a bit of a stretch. Lads not within an ass's roar of a match day panel, basically anyone sniffing around a county panel will be kicked off it if they play club league. This is something I completely and utterly disagree with and really annoys me but was introduced by, funnily enough a Tyrone man and his Monaghan side kick. Then the new man after them kept it going.
Annoys me as well. Would do those lads far better to be getting football every week instead of managers sickening them with training
Vinny Corey allowed all players outside 24 to play league games last year
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:14:22 PMI mentioned it before, but the biggest issue seems to be they had played, and maintained their division 1 league status, and played in a junior championship.
Had it been intermediate championship they had won, I would say people, like myself, could reconcile more with that.
This is coming from my own point of view where, in Armagh, the leagues and championships are linked, the idea of a senior league team entering a junior championship would seem preposterous, and the outcome would be inevitable.
In fairness, it's mad a Div 1 team, last year and this year, are playing in Junior Championship.
In south Derry you'd be looked down on if that happened. Clubs would nearly take you to court over a technicality to stay in Div. 1 and play senior championship.
If Arva were maybe Div. 1 and played Intermediate, you'd nearly let it slide but junior! Kerry divisional teams are another joke
Regardless, the inter-county club championships are fantastic and are very enjoyable over the long winter months. Great viewing at all levels, between the 2 codes.
Quote from: marty34 on January 19, 2024, 08:07:25 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:14:22 PMI mentioned it before, but the biggest issue seems to be they had played, and maintained their division 1 league status, and played in a junior championship.
Had it been intermediate championship they had won, I would say people, like myself, could reconcile more with that.
This is coming from my own point of view where, in Armagh, the leagues and championships are linked, the idea of a senior league team entering a junior championship would seem preposterous, and the outcome would be inevitable.
In fairness, it's mad a Div 1 team, last year and this year, are playing in Junior Championship.
In south Derry you'd be looked down on if that happened. Clubs would nearly take you to court over a technicality to stay in Div. 1 and play senior championship.
If Arva were maybe Div. 1 and played Intermediate, you'd nearly let it slide but junior! Kerry divisional teams are another joke
Regardless, the inter-county club championships are fantastic and are very enjoyable over the long winter months. Great viewing at all levels, between the 2 codes.
Kerry divisional teams are a joke? Please elaborate..
Quote from: marty34 on January 19, 2024, 08:07:25 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:14:22 PMI mentioned it before, but the biggest issue seems to be they had played, and maintained their division 1 league status, and played in a junior championship.
Had it been intermediate championship they had won, I would say people, like myself, could reconcile more with that.
This is coming from my own point of view where, in Armagh, the leagues and championships are linked, the idea of a senior league team entering a junior championship would seem preposterous, and the outcome would be inevitable.
In fairness, it's mad a Div 1 team, last year and this year, are playing in Junior Championship.
In south Derry you'd be looked down on if that happened. Clubs would nearly take you to court over a technicality to stay in Div. 1 and play senior championship.
If Arva were maybe Div. 1 and played Intermediate, you'd nearly let it slide but junior! Kerry divisional teams are another joke
Regardless, the inter-county club championships are fantastic and are very enjoyable over the long winter months. Great viewing at all levels, between the 2 codes.
At the risk of opening another can of worms, I really think the divisional sides are class as they get lads from small clubs playing a far better standard than they normally would.
Do think something needs done about them sending their 9th best to to intermediate though.
Quote from: Dreadnought on January 19, 2024, 06:40:48 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on January 19, 2024, 05:42:03 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on January 19, 2024, 05:28:41 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 04:25:52 PMHow are teams relegated to Intermediate and Junior championships in Cavan? I understand winning is the pathway to the level above, but how do you go about going down?
1 up 1 down. Essentially the bottom 4 in the group stages play off in relegation semi finals, and then losers play relegation final when the Championship quarters, semi etc are ongoing. So overall loser relegated and replaced by below Championship winner. You have to win to move up, lose to move down
Only exception to this is when rejigging numbers, and the odd year you relegate 2 and so on. Covid also messed it here when none were relegated in 2020, but had a promotion, so 2 were relegated in 2021 and so on to rejig numbers across the 3 Championships
Your league is a farce so and handy for outside managers to make a few bob. Mess about in the league and win an odd game in champ and your grand.
Lose a few games in Monaghan and Tyrone in the league and your gone,you get found out pretty quick.
Yes, mostly. Not for the everyday club player, but mostly. Split season the issue here overall. Glad you've finally caught up
Managers still lose their jobs. Might not be as valued, but you can't lose all your games either. My own team cut their manager mid League last season.
So the league is juat a waste of time so. What's tbe point of lads playing if no interest in it.
Being a club manager in Cavan must be handy money...and no pressure.
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 08:11:33 PMQuote from: marty34 on January 19, 2024, 08:07:25 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:14:22 PMI mentioned it before, but the biggest issue seems to be they had played, and maintained their division 1 league status, and played in a junior championship.
Had it been intermediate championship they had won, I would say people, like myself, could reconcile more with that.
This is coming from my own point of view where, in Armagh, the leagues and championships are linked, the idea of a senior league team entering a junior championship would seem preposterous, and the outcome would be inevitable.
In fairness, it's mad a Div 1 team, last year and this year, are playing in Junior Championship.
In south Derry you'd be looked down on if that happened. Clubs would nearly take you to court over a technicality to stay in Div. 1 and play senior championship.
If Arva were maybe Div. 1 and played Intermediate, you'd nearly let it slide but junior! Kerry divisional teams are another joke
Regardless, the inter-county club championships are fantastic and are very enjoyable over the long winter months. Great viewing at all levels, between the 2 codes.
At the risk of opening another can of worms, I really think the divisional sides are class as they get lads from small clubs playing a far better standard than they normally would.
Do think something needs done about them sending their 9th best to to intermediate though.
The divisional sides would struggle to be viable I imagine if there were 16 senior teams.
I posted last year about how a divisional structure could work in Armagh, I must dig it out again. Obviously hypothetical, it'll never happen.
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 08:11:33 PMQuote from: marty34 on January 19, 2024, 08:07:25 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:14:22 PMI mentioned it before, but the biggest issue seems to be they had played, and maintained their division 1 league status, and played in a junior championship.
Had it been intermediate championship they had won, I would say people, like myself, could reconcile more with that.
This is coming from my own point of view where, in Armagh, the leagues and championships are linked, the idea of a senior league team entering a junior championship would seem preposterous, and the outcome would be inevitable.
In fairness, it's mad a Div 1 team, last year and this year, are playing in Junior Championship.
In south Derry you'd be looked down on if that happened. Clubs would nearly take you to court over a technicality to stay in Div. 1 and play senior championship.
If Arva were maybe Div. 1 and played Intermediate, you'd nearly let it slide but junior! Kerry divisional teams are another joke
Regardless, the inter-county club championships are fantastic and are very enjoyable over the long winter months. Great viewing at all levels, between the 2 codes.
At the risk of opening another can of worms, I really think the divisional sides are class as they get lads from small clubs playing a far better standard than they normally would.
Do think something needs done about them sending their 9th best to to intermediate though.
Sure don't they have regional championships in Kerry too, like south Kerry champ etc.
Is there 70 odd clubs in Kerry? The Team that finished 3rd in their Div 1 lost the junior champ final.
How on earth is that happening? Are 50 of their clubs playing junior champ?
Quote from: intheknowhow on January 19, 2024, 09:39:00 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 08:11:33 PMQuote from: marty34 on January 19, 2024, 08:07:25 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:14:22 PMI mentioned it before, but the biggest issue seems to be they had played, and maintained their division 1 league status, and played in a junior championship.
Had it been intermediate championship they had won, I would say people, like myself, could reconcile more with that.
This is coming from my own point of view where, in Armagh, the leagues and championships are linked, the idea of a senior league team entering a junior championship would seem preposterous, and the outcome would be inevitable.
In fairness, it's mad a Div 1 team, last year and this year, are playing in Junior Championship.
In south Derry you'd be looked down on if that happened. Clubs would nearly take you to court over a technicality to stay in Div. 1 and play senior championship.
If Arva were maybe Div. 1 and played Intermediate, you'd nearly let it slide but junior! Kerry divisional teams are another joke
Regardless, the inter-county club championships are fantastic and are very enjoyable over the long winter months. Great viewing at all levels, between the 2 codes.
At the risk of opening another can of worms, I really think the divisional sides are class as they get lads from small clubs playing a far better standard than they normally would.
Do think something needs done about them sending their 9th best to to intermediate though.
Sure don't they have regional championships in Kerry too, like south Kerry champ etc.
Is there 70 odd clubs in Kerry? The Team that finished 3rd in their Div 1 lost the junior champ final.
How on earth is that happening? Are 50 of their clubs playing junior champ?
I really don't know how many times this has to be said before people grasp it. The league is played from March to June and by and large county Seniors and U20s are unavailable. A huge portion of college age players leave for the summer on J1s. A lot of clubs in Kerry would have sizeable contingents of players away in Limerick, Cork and even Dublin. So huge commitment early in the season isn't always possible.
When those players return it quite obviously makes a huge difference for championship. But also, the championships are ultra competitive. I wouldn't have put Milltown-Castlemaine or Listowel in the top 4 rankings of Intermediate or Junior before start of them and I think Austin Stacks or Glenflesk for example would have gone further in Intermediate. But that's the beauty of championship I guess.
Thankfully Ballyhaise didn't beat Cullyhanna and go on to win AI. They very nearly did, now wouldn't that have been some craic.
Quote from: marty34 on January 19, 2024, 08:32:13 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on January 19, 2024, 06:40:48 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on January 19, 2024, 05:42:03 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on January 19, 2024, 05:28:41 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 04:25:52 PMHow are teams relegated to Intermediate and Junior championships in Cavan? I understand winning is the pathway to the level above, but how do you go about going down?
1 up 1 down. Essentially the bottom 4 in the group stages play off in relegation semi finals, and then losers play relegation final when the Championship quarters, semi etc are ongoing. So overall loser relegated and replaced by below Championship winner. You have to win to move up, lose to move down
Only exception to this is when rejigging numbers, and the odd year you relegate 2 and so on. Covid also messed it here when none were relegated in 2020, but had a promotion, so 2 were relegated in 2021 and so on to rejig numbers across the 3 Championships
Your league is a farce so and handy for outside managers to make a few bob. Mess about in the league and win an odd game in champ and your grand.
Lose a few games in Monaghan and Tyrone in the league and your gone,you get found out pretty quick.
Yes, mostly. Not for the everyday club player, but mostly. Split season the issue here overall. Glad you've finally caught up
Managers still lose their jobs. Might not be as valued, but you can't lose all your games either. My own team cut their manager mid League last season.
So the league is juat a waste of time so. What's tbe point of lads playing if no interest in it.
Being a club manager in Cavan must be handy money...and no pressure.
There is interest in it, just a much lesser competition and a great chance for lads on the fringes to exposure to a higher level in a club with second team, or for bringing young lads through.
I'd argue taking the league so seriously is a gimmick managers use to rip clubs off and charge more for their services with all the additional training and fitness stats. You cannot expect club players to be at peak from March to October. So I'd take it with a pinch of salt how tough the leagues are or at least how practical it is from a player welfare POV.
Whatever little joy is left in the club game is slowly being sucked away completely by these "professional" managerial setups and they always know how to charge regardless of results. Northern managers are notorious for it and they're picking up plenty of work in Cavan. Indeed in Dreadnought's own club it was a northern duo who unceremoniously got the gate. Seriously ignorant pair completely stuck up their own holes and extremely detrimental to player morale and development.
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 10:33:14 PMQuote from: marty34 on January 19, 2024, 08:32:13 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on January 19, 2024, 06:40:48 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on January 19, 2024, 05:42:03 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on January 19, 2024, 05:28:41 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 04:25:52 PMHow are teams relegated to Intermediate and Junior championships in Cavan? I understand winning is the pathway to the level above, but how do you go about going down?
1 up 1 down. Essentially the bottom 4 in the group stages play off in relegation semi finals, and then losers play relegation final when the Championship quarters, semi etc are ongoing. So overall loser relegated and replaced by below Championship winner. You have to win to move up, lose to move down
Only exception to this is when rejigging numbers, and the odd year you relegate 2 and so on. Covid also messed it here when none were relegated in 2020, but had a promotion, so 2 were relegated in 2021 and so on to rejig numbers across the 3 Championships
Your league is a farce so and handy for outside managers to make a few bob. Mess about in the league and win an odd game in champ and your grand.
Lose a few games in Monaghan and Tyrone in the league and your gone,you get found out pretty quick.
Yes, mostly. Not for the everyday club player, but mostly. Split season the issue here overall. Glad you've finally caught up
Managers still lose their jobs. Might not be as valued, but you can't lose all your games either. My own team cut their manager mid League last season.
So the league is juat a waste of time so. What's tbe point of lads playing if no interest in it.
Being a club manager in Cavan must be handy money...and no pressure.
There is interest in it, just a much lesser competition and a great chance for lads on the fringes to exposure to a higher level in a club with second team, or for bringing young lads through.
I'd argue taking the league so seriously is a gimmick managers use to rip clubs off and charge more for their services with all the additional training and fitness stats. You cannot expect club players to be at peak from March to October. So I'd take it with a pinch of salt how tough the leagues are or at least how practical it is from a player welfare POV.
Whatever little joy is left in the club game is slowly being sucked away completely by these "professional" managerial setups and they always know how to charge regardless of results. Northern managers are notorious for it and they're picking up plenty of work in Cavan. Indeed in Dreadnought's own club it was a northern duo who unceremoniously got the gate. Seriously ignorant pair completely stuck up their own holes and extremely detrimental to player morale and development.
That's it alright, I mention it above. Yes League not take as seriously (emphasis on as) but it is still played as a competition the usual club players play and use to get better. And if management has shown to be poor, they can absolutely be hooked. We suffered Championship last year because of it, but hope we push on this year
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 10:33:14 PMQuote from: marty34 on January 19, 2024, 08:32:13 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on January 19, 2024, 06:40:48 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on January 19, 2024, 05:42:03 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on January 19, 2024, 05:28:41 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 04:25:52 PMHow are teams relegated to Intermediate and Junior championships in Cavan? I understand winning is the pathway to the level above, but how do you go about going down?
1 up 1 down. Essentially the bottom 4 in the group stages play off in relegation semi finals, and then losers play relegation final when the Championship quarters, semi etc are ongoing. So overall loser relegated and replaced by below Championship winner. You have to win to move up, lose to move down
Only exception to this is when rejigging numbers, and the odd year you relegate 2 and so on. Covid also messed it here when none were relegated in 2020, but had a promotion, so 2 were relegated in 2021 and so on to rejig numbers across the 3 Championships
Your league is a farce so and handy for outside managers to make a few bob. Mess about in the league and win an odd game in champ and your grand.
Lose a few games in Monaghan and Tyrone in the league and your gone,you get found out pretty quick.
Yes, mostly. Not for the everyday club player, but mostly. Split season the issue here overall. Glad you've finally caught up
Managers still lose their jobs. Might not be as valued, but you can't lose all your games either. My own team cut their manager mid League last season.
So the league is juat a waste of time so. What's tbe point of lads playing if no interest in it.
Being a club manager in Cavan must be handy money...and no pressure.
There is interest in it, just a much lesser competition and a great chance for lads on the fringes to exposure to a higher level in a club with second team, or for bringing young lads through.
I'd argue taking the league so seriously is a gimmick managers use to rip clubs off and charge more for their services with all the additional training and fitness stats. You cannot expect club players to be at peak from March to October. So I'd take it with a pinch of salt how tough the leagues are or at least how practical it is from a player welfare POV.
Whatever little joy is left in the club game is slowly being sucked away completely by these "professional" managerial setups and they always know how to charge regardless of results. Northern managers are notorious for it and they're picking up plenty of work in Cavan. Indeed in Dreadnought's own club it was a northern duo who unceremoniously got the gate. Seriously ignorant pair completely stuck up their own holes and extremely detrimental to player morale and development.
Very backward way of looking at it! Why would you train less than before champ?
You pay for what you get
Quote from: intheknowhow on January 20, 2024, 09:47:03 AMQuote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 10:33:14 PMQuote from: marty34 on January 19, 2024, 08:32:13 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on January 19, 2024, 06:40:48 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on January 19, 2024, 05:42:03 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on January 19, 2024, 05:28:41 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 04:25:52 PMHow are teams relegated to Intermediate and Junior championships in Cavan? I understand winning is the pathway to the level above, but how do you go about going down?
1 up 1 down. Essentially the bottom 4 in the group stages play off in relegation semi finals, and then losers play relegation final when the Championship quarters, semi etc are ongoing. So overall loser relegated and replaced by below Championship winner. You have to win to move up, lose to move down
Only exception to this is when rejigging numbers, and the odd year you relegate 2 and so on. Covid also messed it here when none were relegated in 2020, but had a promotion, so 2 were relegated in 2021 and so on to rejig numbers across the 3 Championships
Your league is a farce so and handy for outside managers to make a few bob. Mess about in the league and win an odd game in champ and your grand.
Lose a few games in Monaghan and Tyrone in the league and your gone,you get found out pretty quick.
Yes, mostly. Not for the everyday club player, but mostly. Split season the issue here overall. Glad you've finally caught up
Managers still lose their jobs. Might not be as valued, but you can't lose all your games either. My own team cut their manager mid League last season.
So the league is juat a waste of time so. What's tbe point of lads playing if no interest in it.
Being a club manager in Cavan must be handy money...and no pressure.
There is interest in it, just a much lesser competition and a great chance for lads on the fringes to exposure to a higher level in a club with second team, or for bringing young lads through.
I'd argue taking the league so seriously is a gimmick managers use to rip clubs off and charge more for their services with all the additional training and fitness stats. You cannot expect club players to be at peak from March to October. So I'd take it with a pinch of salt how tough the leagues are or at least how practical it is from a player welfare POV.
Whatever little joy is left in the club game is slowly being sucked away completely by these "professional" managerial setups and they always know how to charge regardless of results. Northern managers are notorious for it and they're picking up plenty of work in Cavan. Indeed in Dreadnought's own club it was a northern duo who unceremoniously got the gate. Seriously ignorant pair completely stuck up their own holes and extremely detrimental to player morale and development.
Very backward way of looking at it! Why would you train less than before champ?
You pay for what you get
Of course you have to train but you need to develop players too and you won't do that by sickening a large portion of the group who you have no intention of giving any meaningful time to. Or in some cases being on players back over the Xmas long long before anything will be kicked. That's OTT for ordinary club players.
I know what they pay for. These lads are paid by the training session. Any it's always the fix for every problem, more sessions, more sessions, more sessions.
Quote from: ranch on January 19, 2024, 08:35:11 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 08:11:33 PMQuote from: marty34 on January 19, 2024, 08:07:25 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:14:22 PMI mentioned it before, but the biggest issue seems to be they had played, and maintained their division 1 league status, and played in a junior championship.
Had it been intermediate championship they had won, I would say people, like myself, could reconcile more with that.
This is coming from my own point of view where, in Armagh, the leagues and championships are linked, the idea of a senior league team entering a junior championship would seem preposterous, and the outcome would be inevitable.
In fairness, it's mad a Div 1 team, last year and this year, are playing in Junior Championship.
In south Derry you'd be looked down on if that happened. Clubs would nearly take you to court over a technicality to stay in Div. 1 and play senior championship.
If Arva were maybe Div. 1 and played Intermediate, you'd nearly let it slide but junior! Kerry divisional teams are another joke
Regardless, the inter-county club championships are fantastic and are very enjoyable over the long winter months. Great viewing at all levels, between the 2 codes.
At the risk of opening another can of worms, I really think the divisional sides are class as they get lads from small clubs playing a far better standard than they normally would.
Do think something needs done about them sending their 9th best to to intermediate though.
The divisional sides would struggle to be viable I imagine if there were 16 senior teams.
I posted last year about how a divisional structure could work in Armagh, I must dig it out again. Obviously hypothetical, it'll never happen.
Would love to see it in Armagh myself, posted before on it too, run the JFC as normal, when over put a couple of amalgamations/divisional sides into IFC, repeat for Intermediate teams into SFC. The success of it would be heavily reliant on team buy in. Could only be good for County football too.
Quote from: ranch on January 19, 2024, 08:35:11 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 08:11:33 PMQuote from: marty34 on January 19, 2024, 08:07:25 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:14:22 PMI mentioned it before, but the biggest issue seems to be they had played, and maintained their division 1 league status, and played in a junior championship.
Had it been intermediate championship they had won, I would say people, like myself, could reconcile more with that.
This is coming from my own point of view where, in Armagh, the leagues and championships are linked, the idea of a senior league team entering a junior championship would seem preposterous, and the outcome would be inevitable.
In fairness, it's mad a Div 1 team, last year and this year, are playing in Junior Championship.
In south Derry you'd be looked down on if that happened. Clubs would nearly take you to court over a technicality to stay in Div. 1 and play senior championship.
If Arva were maybe Div. 1 and played Intermediate, you'd nearly let it slide but junior! Kerry divisional teams are another joke
Regardless, the inter-county club championships are fantastic and are very enjoyable over the long winter months. Great viewing at all levels, between the 2 codes.
At the risk of opening another can of worms, I really think the divisional sides are class as they get lads from small clubs playing a far better standard than they normally would.
Do think something needs done about them sending their 9th best to to intermediate though.
The divisional sides would struggle to be viable I imagine if there were 16 senior teams.
I posted last year about how a divisional structure could work in Armagh, I must dig it out again. Obviously hypothetical, it'll never happen.
Yeah would love it see it tried in Armagh. I think Leitrim or Roscommon tried it last year.
Even 12 senior teams would be better than 8.
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 20, 2024, 10:10:24 AMQuote from: intheknowhow on January 20, 2024, 09:47:03 AMQuote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 10:33:14 PMQuote from: marty34 on January 19, 2024, 08:32:13 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on January 19, 2024, 06:40:48 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on January 19, 2024, 05:42:03 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on January 19, 2024, 05:28:41 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 04:25:52 PMHow are teams relegated to Intermediate and Junior championships in Cavan? I understand winning is the pathway to the level above, but how do you go about going down?
1 up 1 down. Essentially the bottom 4 in the group stages play off in relegation semi finals, and then losers play relegation final when the Championship quarters, semi etc are ongoing. So overall loser relegated and replaced by below Championship winner. You have to win to move up, lose to move down
Only exception to this is when rejigging numbers, and the odd year you relegate 2 and so on. Covid also messed it here when none were relegated in 2020, but had a promotion, so 2 were relegated in 2021 and so on to rejig numbers across the 3 Championships
Your league is a farce so and handy for outside managers to make a few bob. Mess about in the league and win an odd game in champ and your grand.
Lose a few games in Monaghan and Tyrone in the league and your gone,you get found out pretty quick.
Yes, mostly. Not for the everyday club player, but mostly. Split season the issue here overall. Glad you've finally caught up
Managers still lose their jobs. Might not be as valued, but you can't lose all your games either. My own team cut their manager mid League last season.
So the league is juat a waste of time so. What's tbe point of lads playing if no interest in it.
Being a club manager in Cavan must be handy money...and no pressure.
There is interest in it, just a much lesser competition and a great chance for lads on the fringes to exposure to a higher level in a club with second team, or for bringing young lads through.
I'd argue taking the league so seriously is a gimmick managers use to rip clubs off and charge more for their services with all the additional training and fitness stats. You cannot expect club players to be at peak from March to October. So I'd take it with a pinch of salt how tough the leagues are or at least how practical it is from a player welfare POV.
Whatever little joy is left in the club game is slowly being sucked away completely by these "professional" managerial setups and they always know how to charge regardless of results. Northern managers are notorious for it and they're picking up plenty of work in Cavan. Indeed in Dreadnought's own club it was a northern duo who unceremoniously got the gate. Seriously ignorant pair completely stuck up their own holes and extremely detrimental to player morale and development.
Very backward way of looking at it! Why would you train less than before champ?
You pay for what you get
Of course you have to train but you need to develop players too and you won't do that by sickening a large portion of the group who you have no intention of giving any meaningful time to. Or in some cases being on players back over the Xmas long long before anything will be kicked. That's OTT for ordinary club players.
I know what they pay for. These lads are paid by the training session. Any it's always the fix for every problem, more sessions, more sessions, more sessions.
It's the difference in winning and losing. You want to do it or you don't. The top club teams manage themselves. Well training is how you get better...
Quote from: ranch on January 19, 2024, 06:30:13 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 05:26:42 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on January 19, 2024, 04:01:15 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 03:37:36 PMQuote from: bennydorano on January 19, 2024, 03:18:31 PMQuote from: ranch on January 19, 2024, 02:40:14 PMI'm not a Cavan man but I actually think the way they organise their championship and don't link it to another competition is the best way to do it. To progress from junior to intermediate championship you should have to win the junior championship. The leagues should be a totally separate competition, especially now with the split season. I'm from Armagh and don't like our current system at all, but I accept I'm in the minority. We should also accept every county organises their competitions differently and leave them to it.
That's the way Armagh was for years, we left it behind. The current format is what, maybe 8-10 years on the go? (I'm really not sure)
Think our system works really well- 8 team league divisions with the a/b split leaves teams at a similar level and less hammerings and still having 2 up and 2 down means theres less chance of dead rubbers towards end of the league.
Would prefer a straight knock out championship to the group stages though but don't mind teams getting those extra few games so see the reason for it.
I don't agree with this A/B crap. Your either division 1 or 2 or 3. Hurling leagues are split this way and no one gives a toss about them.
Best thing Inter County Gaelic football did was go to the 4 divisions, 10 or 15 years ago.
works really well for us. For example the top 2 teams in Armagh league were Cross and Clann Eirean last year. 15/16 were Shane O'Neills and Grange. The bottom 2 are a lot closer to intermediate level than they would be to top of senior. Because the league is split into 8 instead of 16 Shanes and Grange were able to play teams closer to their own level and so were Cross and Clann Eireann. Gives more competitive and meaningful games imo.
I'd question how well it works given that clubs are being relegated and punished for having county players. If the league and championships weren't linked I'd be okay with it but it's part of the reason a club like Cullyhanna are keen to change the set up now. It also affects the seedings come the group stage of the championship too which is something that should be tidied up. I'd prefer a system like the one in Cavan as I think the championship should dictate what championship you play in the following year, but each to their own.
Ps - didn't Madden play CE in a league decider in 2023, with Cross out of the running by the final game?
PPS- to answer an earlier query, 2011 was the final year of the old league set up. Over the course of the next 3 years the championships and leagues were aligned, negatively impacting a club like Forkhill for example who probably would have won a junior championship, but instead found themselves at intermediate championship level, followed by senior championship, as they kept going on good runs in the league (before A/B was brought in, this was originally only at Junior league level). I know a few Forkhill lads who weren't happy about it. The old set up probably would have seen them reach div 2 with a junior championship along the way, and a crack at the intermediate for a few years, before probably finding their level at division 3 again.
Can we knock this myth that Cullyhanna were relegated because they were missing their county players on the head? They survived relegation, were nowhere near it in fact, for many years in the same scenario. They were missing a lot more than their county players for various reasons.
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 20, 2024, 01:56:47 PMQuote from: ranch on January 19, 2024, 06:30:13 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 05:26:42 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on January 19, 2024, 04:01:15 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 03:37:36 PMQuote from: bennydorano on January 19, 2024, 03:18:31 PMQuote from: ranch on January 19, 2024, 02:40:14 PMI'm not a Cavan man but I actually think the way they organise their championship and don't link it to another competition is the best way to do it. To progress from junior to intermediate championship you should have to win the junior championship. The leagues should be a totally separate competition, especially now with the split season. I'm from Armagh and don't like our current system at all, but I accept I'm in the minority. We should also accept every county organises their competitions differently and leave them to it.
That's the way Armagh was for years, we left it behind. The current format is what, maybe 8-10 years on the go? (I'm really not sure)
Think our system works really well- 8 team league divisions with the a/b split leaves teams at a similar level and less hammerings and still having 2 up and 2 down means theres less chance of dead rubbers towards end of the league.
Would prefer a straight knock out championship to the group stages though but don't mind teams getting those extra few games so see the reason for it.
I don't agree with this A/B crap. Your either division 1 or 2 or 3. Hurling leagues are split this way and no one gives a toss about them.
Best thing Inter County Gaelic football did was go to the 4 divisions, 10 or 15 years ago.
works really well for us. For example the top 2 teams in Armagh league were Cross and Clann Eirean last year. 15/16 were Shane O'Neills and Grange. The bottom 2 are a lot closer to intermediate level than they would be to top of senior. Because the league is split into 8 instead of 16 Shanes and Grange were able to play teams closer to their own level and so were Cross and Clann Eireann. Gives more competitive and meaningful games imo.
I'd question how well it works given that clubs are being relegated and punished for having county players. If the league and championships weren't linked I'd be okay with it but it's part of the reason a club like Cullyhanna are keen to change the set up now. It also affects the seedings come the group stage of the championship too which is something that should be tidied up. I'd prefer a system like the one in Cavan as I think the championship should dictate what championship you play in the following year, but each to their own.
Ps - didn't Madden play CE in a league decider in 2023, with Cross out of the running by the final game?
PPS- to answer an earlier query, 2011 was the final year of the old league set up. Over the course of the next 3 years the championships and leagues were aligned, negatively impacting a club like Forkhill for example who probably would have won a junior championship, but instead found themselves at intermediate championship level, followed by senior championship, as they kept going on good runs in the league (before A/B was brought in, this was originally only at Junior league level). I know a few Forkhill lads who weren't happy about it. The old set up probably would have seen them reach div 2 with a junior championship along the way, and a crack at the intermediate for a few years, before probably finding their level at division 3 again.
Can we knock this myth that Cullyhanna were relegated because they were missing their county players on the head? They survived relegation, were nowhere near it in fact, for many years in the same scenario. They were missing a lot more than their county players for various reasons.
Relegating any club in the championship based on league positions when they're deprived of their best players is unfair. Forkhill and Shane's were also affected last year, not just Cullyhanna the year before. Link the two competitions by all means but a better system needs to be found for relegation in that case.
Quote from: bennydorano on January 20, 2024, 11:32:18 AMQuote from: ranch on January 19, 2024, 08:35:11 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 08:11:33 PMQuote from: marty34 on January 19, 2024, 08:07:25 PMQuote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:14:22 PMI mentioned it before, but the biggest issue seems to be they had played, and maintained their division 1 league status, and played in a junior championship.
Had it been intermediate championship they had won, I would say people, like myself, could reconcile more with that.
This is coming from my own point of view where, in Armagh, the leagues and championships are linked, the idea of a senior league team entering a junior championship would seem preposterous, and the outcome would be inevitable.
In fairness, it's mad a Div 1 team, last year and this year, are playing in Junior Championship.
In south Derry you'd be looked down on if that happened. Clubs would nearly take you to court over a technicality to stay in Div. 1 and play senior championship.
If Arva were maybe Div. 1 and played Intermediate, you'd nearly let it slide but junior! Kerry divisional teams are another joke
Regardless, the inter-county club championships are fantastic and are very enjoyable over the long winter months. Great viewing at all levels, between the 2 codes.
At the risk of opening another can of worms, I really think the divisional sides are class as they get lads from small clubs playing a far better standard than they normally would.
Do think something needs done about them sending their 9th best to to intermediate though.
The divisional sides would struggle to be viable I imagine if there were 16 senior teams.
I posted last year about how a divisional structure could work in Armagh, I must dig it out again. Obviously hypothetical, it'll never happen.
Would love to see it in Armagh myself, posted before on it too, run the JFC as normal, when over put a couple of amalgamations/divisional sides into IFC, repeat for Intermediate teams into SFC. The success of it would be heavily reliant on team buy in. Could only be good for County football too.
REGIONS - COUNTY CHAMPIONSHIP
Clubs would compete on their own in the county championship unless relegated to intermediate - when relegated they'd join their regional side the following season. Winners of the intermediate championship would join the senior set up the following year and leave their regional side).
1. SOUTH ARMAGH EAST (cruppen, shanes, corrinshego, whitecross, lissummon, o'hanlons, belleek, killeavy, dromintee)
2. SOUTH ARMAGH WEST (Newtownhamilton, Dorsey, Silverbridge, Cullyhanna, Cullaville, Mullabawn, Forkhill, crossmaglen)
3. MID ARMAGH WEST (Clady, Ballymacnab, Keady, Derrynoose, Middletown, madden, granemore)
4. MID ARMAGH CENTRAL (Pearse Og, An Port Mor, Tullysaran, Grange, Mullabrack, harps)
5. NORTH ARMAGH COUNTRY (Annaghmore, Clonmore, Collegeland, Wolfe Tones, Sarsfields, Ballyhegan, maghery)
6. NORTH ARMAGH TOWN (St Peter's, St Paul's, Clan na Gael, Tir na nog, Eire Og, clann eireann)
Unless you're one of the 8/10/12 senior clubs you'd then join the regional team for the senior county championship. My own view is that 10 clubs would be about the right number as 6 regional teams would get us up to 16 teams in the county championship.
Top 10 clubs in the county at present who would be competing on their own would be along the lines of Cross, CE, clan na gael, Cullyhanna, Madden, silverbridge, killeavy, granemore, ballymacnab, harps?
Senior clubs would also have a senior club championship without regional sides, similar to that of Kerry. Intermediate and junior championship would also run as normal-have a look at Kerry's calendar to figure out dates etc.
This is just a rough example of how it might work, I'm sure there are better minds than mine who could refine this even further.
Some clubs could also fall into another area possibly.
Inevitably some regional sides will be stronger than others but it'll at least give every player in the county an opportunity to compete for the county championship.
Thoughts?
P.s. apologies if I missed out any clubs.
Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on January 19, 2024, 04:01:15 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 03:37:36 PMQuote from: bennydorano on January 19, 2024, 03:18:31 PMQuote from: ranch on January 19, 2024, 02:40:14 PMI'm not a Cavan man but I actually think the way they organise their championship and don't link it to another competition is the best way to do it. To progress from junior to intermediate championship you should have to win the junior championship. The leagues should be a totally separate competition, especially now with the split season. I'm from Armagh and don't like our current system at all, but I accept I'm in the minority. We should also accept every county organises their competitions differently and leave them to it.
That's the way Armagh was for years, we left it behind. The current format is what, maybe 8-10 years on the go? (I'm really not sure)
Think our system works really well- 8 team league divisions with the a/b split leaves teams at a similar level and less hammerings and still having 2 up and 2 down means theres less chance of dead rubbers towards end of the league.
Would prefer a straight knock out championship to the group stages though but don't mind teams getting those extra few games so see the reason for it.
I don't agree with this A/B crap. Your either division 1 or 2 or 3. Hurling leagues are split this way and no one gives a toss about them.
Best thing Inter County Gaelic football did was go to the 4 divisions, 10 or 15 years ago.
Like most other counties, there are three grades in Armagh: senior, intermediate and junior. The stars aligned at some point in 2011 or 2012 (48 senior teams able to field) and it was decided to do away with the old 4 divisions and merge them into 3 divisions; consolidating them with the three respective championship grades. A fairly straight forward concept and it
avoids any ambiguity in that there is
zero confusion as to what level a club was. No more Division 1 clubs loitering in intermediate and no more Division 2 clubs loitering in Junior.
16 teams in each league soon lead to a few mismatches so the leagues were condensed into A&B, giving a more level playing field, increased competitiveness and less dead rubbers.
Clubs that probably could only dream of senior football got a chance to mix it with the big boys as there was an extra avenue for promotion through the leagues rather than waiting on that elusive championship. Some of the smallest clubs in Armagh have got a taste of senior football (by merit) which was probably unthinkable under the old 4 division set up.
Is the current system in Armagh perfect? No, but
it is fair - Cullyhanna's AI win probably the only example that even comes close to an anomaly. Past results on the provincial stage by Armagh clubs would suggest as much.
Quote from: general_lee on January 21, 2024, 09:44:58 AMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on January 19, 2024, 04:01:15 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 03:37:36 PMQuote from: bennydorano on January 19, 2024, 03:18:31 PMQuote from: ranch on January 19, 2024, 02:40:14 PMI'm not a Cavan man but I actually think the way they organise their championship and don't link it to another competition is the best way to do it. To progress from junior to intermediate championship you should have to win the junior championship. The leagues should be a totally separate competition, especially now with the split season. I'm from Armagh and don't like our current system at all, but I accept I'm in the minority. We should also accept every county organises their competitions differently and leave them to it.
That's the way Armagh was for years, we left it behind. The current format is what, maybe 8-10 years on the go? (I'm really not sure)
Think our system works really well- 8 team league divisions with the a/b split leaves teams at a similar level and less hammerings and still having 2 up and 2 down means theres less chance of dead rubbers towards end of the league.
Would prefer a straight knock out championship to the group stages though but don't mind teams getting those extra few games so see the reason for it.
I don't agree with this A/B crap. Your either division 1 or 2 or 3. Hurling leagues are split this way and no one gives a toss about them.
Best thing Inter County Gaelic football did was go to the 4 divisions, 10 or 15 years ago.
Like most other counties, there are three grades in Armagh: senior, intermediate and junior. The stars aligned at some point in 2011 or 2012 (48 senior teams able to field) and it was decided to do away with the old 4 divisions and merge them into 3 divisions; consolidating them with the three respective championship grades. A fairly straight forward concept and it avoids any ambiguity in that there is zero confusion as to what level a club was. No more Division 1 clubs loitering in intermediate and no more Division 2 clubs loitering in Junior.
16 teams in each league soon lead to a few mismatches so the leagues were condensed into A&B, giving a more level playing field, increased competitiveness and less dead rubbers.
Clubs that probably could only dream of senior football got a chance to mix it with the big boys as there was an extra avenue for promotion through the leagues rather than waiting on that elusive championship. Some of the smallest clubs in Armagh have got a taste of senior football (by merit) which was probably unthinkable under the old 4 division set up.
Is the current system in Armagh perfect? No, but it is fair - Cullyhanna's AI win probably the only example that even comes close to an anomaly. Past results on the provincial stage by Armagh clubs would suggest as much.
I understand the reason it was brought in, as much as I'm not a fan of it. Teams were loitering in Div 2 and playing junior and still were unable to win it. Tullysaran in 2011 were knocked out in the first round by Eire Og who were in Div 4. The year before they also lost to a Div 4 team in the final. I don't see that as an unfair system personally. They weren't good enough to win junior so remained at the correct level. Our biggest issue back at that time was the lack of a relegation system in championship. That, along with the dominance of one club at senior championship level, led to clubs regrading to intermediate, with a knock on effect to junior,. The championship set up did need refreshed as a result but relegation play offs were the way to go in my opinion. Down have a similar set up now (Bosco were Div 4 and intermediate in 2023 as they won their relegation play off in the championship, whereas the junior winners were in Div 3).
I'd also like to see them do away with seeding the championship groups based on the final league positions. At least let there be some sort of jeopardy involved and some interesting groups might pop up, rather than the boring group stages, with no atmosphere whatsoever, that we endured last year. It's clear that the linked championships and leagues are here to stay but there are still plenty of ways to improve what we have at present.
Quote from: ranch on January 21, 2024, 12:55:24 PMQuote from: general_lee on January 21, 2024, 09:44:58 AMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on January 19, 2024, 04:01:15 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 03:37:36 PMQuote from: bennydorano on January 19, 2024, 03:18:31 PMQuote from: ranch on January 19, 2024, 02:40:14 PMI'm not a Cavan man but I actually think the way they organise their championship and don't link it to another competition is the best way to do it. To progress from junior to intermediate championship you should have to win the junior championship. The leagues should be a totally separate competition, especially now with the split season. I'm from Armagh and don't like our current system at all, but I accept I'm in the minority. We should also accept every county organises their competitions differently and leave them to it.
That's the way Armagh was for years, we left it behind. The current format is what, maybe 8-10 years on the go? (I'm really not sure)
Think our system works really well- 8 team league divisions with the a/b split leaves teams at a similar level and less hammerings and still having 2 up and 2 down means theres less chance of dead rubbers towards end of the league.
Would prefer a straight knock out championship to the group stages though but don't mind teams getting those extra few games so see the reason for it.
I don't agree with this A/B crap. Your either division 1 or 2 or 3. Hurling leagues are split this way and no one gives a toss about them.
Best thing Inter County Gaelic football did was go to the 4 divisions, 10 or 15 years ago.
Like most other counties, there are three grades in Armagh: senior, intermediate and junior. The stars aligned at some point in 2011 or 2012 (48 senior teams able to field) and it was decided to do away with the old 4 divisions and merge them into 3 divisions; consolidating them with the three respective championship grades. A fairly straight forward concept and it avoids any ambiguity in that there is zero confusion as to what level a club was. No more Division 1 clubs loitering in intermediate and no more Division 2 clubs loitering in Junior.
16 teams in each league soon lead to a few mismatches so the leagues were condensed into A&B, giving a more level playing field, increased competitiveness and less dead rubbers.
Clubs that probably could only dream of senior football got a chance to mix it with the big boys as there was an extra avenue for promotion through the leagues rather than waiting on that elusive championship. Some of the smallest clubs in Armagh have got a taste of senior football (by merit) which was probably unthinkable under the old 4 division set up.
Is the current system in Armagh perfect? No, but it is fair - Cullyhanna's AI win probably the only example that even comes close to an anomaly. Past results on the provincial stage by Armagh clubs would suggest as much.
I understand the reason it was brought in, as much as I'm not a fan of it. Teams were loitering in Div 2 and playing junior and still were unable to win it. Tullysaran in 2011 were knocked out in the first round by Eire Og who were in Div 4. The year before they also lost to a Div 4 team in the final. I don't see that as an unfair system personally. They weren't good enough to win junior so remained at the correct level.
I'd also like to see them do away with seeding the championship groups based on the final league positions. At least let there be some sort of jeopardy involved and some interesting groups might pop up, rather than the boring group stages, with no atmosphere whatsoever, that we endured last year. It's clear that the linked championships and leagues are here to stay but there are still plenty of ways to improve what we have at present.
The thing about seeding the championship groups is that it helps prevent dead rubbers in the league towards the end- if it wasnt seeded and a team with a couple of games to go knew they couldn't get promoted or relegated they're left with nothing to play for- but if they've a chance at a better championship draw they'll push to finish 4th in the league rather than 5th. Personally prefer straight knock out for championship.
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 21, 2024, 12:58:59 PMQuote from: ranch on January 21, 2024, 12:55:24 PMQuote from: general_lee on January 21, 2024, 09:44:58 AMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on January 19, 2024, 04:01:15 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 03:37:36 PMQuote from: bennydorano on January 19, 2024, 03:18:31 PMQuote from: ranch on January 19, 2024, 02:40:14 PMI'm not a Cavan man but I actually think the way they organise their championship and don't link it to another competition is the best way to do it. To progress from junior to intermediate championship you should have to win the junior championship. The leagues should be a totally separate competition, especially now with the split season. I'm from Armagh and don't like our current system at all, but I accept I'm in the minority. We should also accept every county organises their competitions differently and leave them to it.
That's the way Armagh was for years, we left it behind. The current format is what, maybe 8-10 years on the go? (I'm really not sure)
Think our system works really well- 8 team league divisions with the a/b split leaves teams at a similar level and less hammerings and still having 2 up and 2 down means theres less chance of dead rubbers towards end of the league.
Would prefer a straight knock out championship to the group stages though but don't mind teams getting those extra few games so see the reason for it.
I don't agree with this A/B crap. Your either division 1 or 2 or 3. Hurling leagues are split this way and no one gives a toss about them.
Best thing Inter County Gaelic football did was go to the 4 divisions, 10 or 15 years ago.
Like most other counties, there are three grades in Armagh: senior, intermediate and junior. The stars aligned at some point in 2011 or 2012 (48 senior teams able to field) and it was decided to do away with the old 4 divisions and merge them into 3 divisions; consolidating them with the three respective championship grades. A fairly straight forward concept and it avoids any ambiguity in that there is zero confusion as to what level a club was. No more Division 1 clubs loitering in intermediate and no more Division 2 clubs loitering in Junior.
16 teams in each league soon lead to a few mismatches so the leagues were condensed into A&B, giving a more level playing field, increased competitiveness and less dead rubbers.
Clubs that probably could only dream of senior football got a chance to mix it with the big boys as there was an extra avenue for promotion through the leagues rather than waiting on that elusive championship. Some of the smallest clubs in Armagh have got a taste of senior football (by merit) which was probably unthinkable under the old 4 division set up.
Is the current system in Armagh perfect? No, but it is fair - Cullyhanna's AI win probably the only example that even comes close to an anomaly. Past results on the provincial stage by Armagh clubs would suggest as much.
I understand the reason it was brought in, as much as I'm not a fan of it. Teams were loitering in Div 2 and playing junior and still were unable to win it. Tullysaran in 2011 were knocked out in the first round by Eire Og who were in Div 4. The year before they also lost to a Div 4 team in the final. I don't see that as an unfair system personally. They weren't good enough to win junior so remained at the correct level.
I'd also like to see them do away with seeding the championship groups based on the final league positions. At least let there be some sort of jeopardy involved and some interesting groups might pop up, rather than the boring group stages, with no atmosphere whatsoever, that we endured last year. It's clear that the linked championships and leagues are here to stay but there are still plenty of ways to improve what we have at present.
The thing about seeding the championship groups is that it helps prevent dead rubbers in the league towards the end- if it wasnt seeded and a team with a couple of games to go knew they couldn't get promoted or relegated they're left with nothing to play for- but if they've a chance at a better championship draw they'll push to finish 4th in the league rather than 5th. Personally prefer straight knock out for championship.
I think that's my biggest issue with the set up we have. We've tried so hard to make the league mean something by linking it to championship first of all, and now seedings as well, that it's made the championship seem quite flat and uninteresting until it gets to the latter stages.
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 21, 2024, 12:58:59 PMQuote from: ranch on January 21, 2024, 12:55:24 PMQuote from: general_lee on January 21, 2024, 09:44:58 AMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on January 19, 2024, 04:01:15 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 03:37:36 PMQuote from: bennydorano on January 19, 2024, 03:18:31 PMQuote from: ranch on January 19, 2024, 02:40:14 PMI'm not a Cavan man but I actually think the way they organise their championship and don't link it to another competition is the best way to do it. To progress from junior to intermediate championship you should have to win the junior championship. The leagues should be a totally separate competition, especially now with the split season. I'm from Armagh and don't like our current system at all, but I accept I'm in the minority. We should also accept every county organises their competitions differently and leave them to it.
That's the way Armagh was for years, we left it behind. The current format is what, maybe 8-10 years on the go? (I'm really not sure)
Think our system works really well- 8 team league divisions with the a/b split leaves teams at a similar level and less hammerings and still having 2 up and 2 down means theres less chance of dead rubbers towards end of the league.
Would prefer a straight knock out championship to the group stages though but don't mind teams getting those extra few games so see the reason for it.
I don't agree with this A/B crap. Your either division 1 or 2 or 3. Hurling leagues are split this way and no one gives a toss about them.
Best thing Inter County Gaelic football did was go to the 4 divisions, 10 or 15 years ago.
Like most other counties, there are three grades in Armagh: senior, intermediate and junior. The stars aligned at some point in 2011 or 2012 (48 senior teams able to field) and it was decided to do away with the old 4 divisions and merge them into 3 divisions; consolidating them with the three respective championship grades. A fairly straight forward concept and it avoids any ambiguity in that there is zero confusion as to what level a club was. No more Division 1 clubs loitering in intermediate and no more Division 2 clubs loitering in Junior.
16 teams in each league soon lead to a few mismatches so the leagues were condensed into A&B, giving a more level playing field, increased competitiveness and less dead rubbers.
Clubs that probably could only dream of senior football got a chance to mix it with the big boys as there was an extra avenue for promotion through the leagues rather than waiting on that elusive championship. Some of the smallest clubs in Armagh have got a taste of senior football (by merit) which was probably unthinkable under the old 4 division set up.
Is the current system in Armagh perfect? No, but it is fair - Cullyhanna's AI win probably the only example that even comes close to an anomaly. Past results on the provincial stage by Armagh clubs would suggest as much.
I understand the reason it was brought in, as much as I'm not a fan of it. Teams were loitering in Div 2 and playing junior and still were unable to win it. Tullysaran in 2011 were knocked out in the first round by Eire Og who were in Div 4. The year before they also lost to a Div 4 team in the final. I don't see that as an unfair system personally. They weren't good enough to win junior so remained at the correct level.
I'd also like to see them do away with seeding the championship groups based on the final league positions. At least let there be some sort of jeopardy involved and some interesting groups might pop up, rather than the boring group stages, with no atmosphere whatsoever, that we endured last year. It's clear that the linked championships and leagues are here to stay but there are still plenty of ways to improve what we have at present.
The thing about seeding the championship groups is that it helps prevent dead rubbers in the league towards the end- if it wasnt seeded and a team with a couple of games to go knew they couldn't get promoted or relegated they're left with nothing to play for- but if they've a chance at a better championship draw they'll push to finish 4th in the league rather than 5th. Personally prefer straight knock out for championship.
As much as I'm not a fan of the Armagh system I do like the idea of seeding teams as per their league placings for championship.
Even in counties where there's no link between league and championship its something that could be introduced.