A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[armaghniac]

So you think the UK is just going to magically and completely turn off the money tap?

The issue is firstly the ability of London to pay, they are crippling this themselves. The issue is the extent to which London creates a need for handouts by crippling the NI economy e.g. Brexit. After that, the issue is the comparison between the continued flow of handouts and London's willingness to get provide a decent settlement to get rid of NI.

If economic arguments won the day, catholic/nationalists up here would long ago have decided the UK link was preferable,or unionists might have even been mildly tempted to look at Re-Unification during the Celtic Tiger years.Alas,not a chance

From here on, the balance of power lies with a group in the middle, as nationalist and unionist numbers are about equal. These Rory McIllroy types are influenced by economic arguments and other issues.

Disappointing, but not unexpected, to see Varadkar parroting the Unionist line.  Didn't see the programme but did they ask him if a 50%+1 vote would be acceptable to keep NI in the UK?  I've always thought that the whole referendum process as laid out in the GFA was where SF and the SDLP had their eye wiped by the Brits.

Varadkar's phrasing was unfortunate, for someone usually quite sharp. His main point was to support the GFA which had widespread support and postpone the UI to another day and perhaps a point about wanting agreement.

[Rossfan]

I presume after the new All Ireland State is set up British level pensions and Social welfare payments will continue in the North Eastern Autonomous Area?
After all we don't want them scroungers living off us until they learn our work ethic.

[armaghniac]

I presume after the new All Ireland State is set up British level pensions and Social welfare payments will continue in the North Eastern Autonomous Area?
After all we don't want them scroungers living off us until they learn our work ethic.

Anyone continuing to hold a British passport should have British level pension.

[T Fearon]

You make a valid point.If the UK is ever unable to bail out the North,the certainty is that Dublin will never be able to do it.

I still maintain there is no meaningful proportion of the Northern electorate who are amenable to economic arguments for a United Ireland,if any real arguments in this regard,do exist.Add in cultural differences,eg the role religious belief plays in the North,and you have after one hundred years,two practically irreconcilables entities.

The federal option,doesn't change anything,unionists would still control the North

[armaghniac]

You make a valid point.If the UK is ever unable to bail out the North,the certainty is that Dublin will never be able to do it.

I made a more subtle point in that the UK will be able to have a less generous measure, because it will be poorer and because there may be other pressures on public expenditure. The limitations of a subsidised NI compared to a ROI earning its own keep will become increasingly obvious.

The federal option,doesn't change anything,unionists would still control the North

Unionists do not make up a majority in the North at the present time and by definition they will not when a UI comes about.

[yellowcard]

Varadkar is all PR and image, but his latest comments are very disconcerting for nationalists in the north. Moving the goalposts from what was signed up for in the GFA. Does he not even see the irony of the fact that an artificial majority was created when drawing up boundaries to split the state to ensure this 50+1 unionist majority. Now he realises that the gap is narrowing he is attempting to suggest that the majority needed should be more than this. Just a typical Fine Gael me me, I'm alright jack attitude. 

[T Fearon]

Lord Kilclooney has suggested a Civil War would ensue from loyalists should a United Ireland come about as a result of a 50% plus one scenario
Designed to cause more fear in Dublin.

[Rossfan]

You mean John Bigot Taylor the last survivor of the old Stormont regime.
He'd be better off advising the Unionist minority in the 6 Cos to start making friends with their neighbours in the 6 Cos and then in the 26.

[clonadmad]

Mad for the ould partition is JT

"In January 2012, Taylor wrote to The Scotsman newspaper asserting that Scotland should be subject to partition, depending on the outcome of the Scottish independence referendum"

[Eamonnca1]

If economic arguments won the day, catholic/nationalists up here would long ago have decided the UK link was preferable,or unionists might have even been mildly tempted to look at Re-Unification during the Celtic Tiger years.Alas,not a chance

Spot on. Northern nationalists still wanted unity with the south back when the free state was still impoverished.

[Eamonnca1]

You make a valid point.If the UK is ever unable to bail out the North,the certainty is that Dublin will never be able to do it.

I still maintain there is no meaningful proportion of the Northern electorate who are amenable to economic arguments for a United Ireland,if any real arguments in this regard,do exist.Add in cultural differences,eg the role religious belief plays in the North,and you have after one hundred years,two practically irreconcilables entities.

The federal option,doesn't change anything,unionists would still control the North

Would they? They'd be junior partners in a power-sharing executive (assuming we keep the Stormont arrangements in place) but it'd be a bit of a stretch to say that they would "control the north."

[Eamonnca1]

Varadkar is all PR and image, but his latest comments are very disconcerting for nationalists in the north. Moving the goalposts from what was signed up for in the GFA. Does he not even see the irony of the fact that an artificial majority was created when drawing up boundaries to split the state to ensure this 50+1 unionist majority. Now he realises that the gap is narrowing he is attempting to suggest that the majority needed should be more than this. Just a typical Fine Gael me me, I'm alright jack attitude.

That's a unionist tradition. The unionist demand escalator has always gone upwards no matter what was agreed.

[armaghniac]

Mad for the ould partition is JT

"In January 2012, Taylor wrote to The Scotsman newspaper asserting that Scotland should be subject to partition, depending on the outcome of the Scottish independence referendum"

Easy cure, leave them places like Newtownabbey and Larne out of a United Ireland and so there more would be 50%+1 and anyone in the rest of the wee 6 can move there if they don't like it.

[Eamonnca1]

Mad for the ould partition is JT

"In January 2012, Taylor wrote to The Scotsman newspaper asserting that Scotland should be subject to partition, depending on the outcome of the Scottish independence referendum"

Easy cure, leave them places like Newtownabbey and Larne out of a United Ireland and so there more would be 50%+1 and anyone in the rest of the wee 6 can move there if they don't like it.

I'd say let them keep Larne. Or Bangor. I could live without Bangor.

[clonadmad]

Mad for the ould partition is JT

"In January 2012, Taylor wrote to The Scotsman newspaper asserting that Scotland should be subject to partition, depending on the outcome of the Scottish independence referendum"

Easy cure, leave them places like Newtownabbey and Larne out of a United Ireland and so there more would be 50%+1 and anyone in the rest of the wee 6 can move there if they don't like it.

I'd say let them keep Larne. Or Bangor. I could live without Bangor.

Belfast could be like Berlin with the Russians in the eastern part,might have add to the wall though