Man Utd Thread:

[trailer]

Are players that dumb that they allow agents take a cut in the tens of millions from a transfer?
In Pogba's transfer from Juve, Mino Raiola made something equivalent of 2 years of Pogba salary.

If you were switching jobs would you let a recruitment pocket that sort of wedge?

Bord, I think the agents or super-agents now are more involved in actually generating the moves for these players so that might jusitfy the increase in their cut.

This is where I would give Gary Neville kudos he didnt bother with agents. Did his contract talks himself, obviously easier for a one club player which doesnt exist now really, but shows that it is/ was possible.

I know there are a few NFL players have represented themselves in the last couple of years, and I know NFL contracts are a lot more complex with "guaranteed" money etc but I think the general consensus was they got their eyes wiped by the teams

Agents are experts. Representing yourself in a football move is akin to representing yourself on a murder charge. You wouldn't do that so why would you not use an agent. Also clubs probably use agents far more than players.

[AZOffaly]

Are players that dumb that they allow agents take a cut in the tens of millions from a transfer?
In Pogba's transfer from Juve, Mino Raiola made something equivalent of 2 years of Pogba salary.

If you were switching jobs would you let a recruitment pocket that sort of wedge?

Bord, I think the agents or super-agents now are more involved in actually generating the moves for these players so that might jusitfy the increase in their cut.

This is where I would give Gary Neville kudos he didnt bother with agents. Did his contract talks himself, obviously easier for a one club player which doesnt exist now really, but shows that it is/ was possible.

I know there are a few NFL players have represented themselves in the last couple of years, and I know NFL contracts are a lot more complex with "guaranteed" money etc but I think the general consensus was they got their eyes wiped by the teams

Agents are experts. Representing yourself in a football move is akin to representing yourself on a murder charge. You wouldn't do that so why would you not use an agent. Also clubs probably use agents far more than players.

I don't have an issue with Agents negotiating hard on behalf of their clients. What I have a hard time with is an Agent trying to engineer a move for a player who is under contract, by leaking stories, agitiating and causing grief and hassle for the club who he shook hands with in the fairly recent past on a deal.

Agents who do that are cockroaches in my view, and are operating with their own best interests in mind, not the players. Agents far happier to bag 10% of a 60 million deal than 10% of a wages deal.

[NAG1]

Are players that dumb that they allow agents take a cut in the tens of millions from a transfer?
In Pogba's transfer from Juve, Mino Raiola made something equivalent of 2 years of Pogba salary.

If you were switching jobs would you let a recruitment pocket that sort of wedge?

Bord, I think the agents or super-agents now are more involved in actually generating the moves for these players so that might jusitfy the increase in their cut.

This is where I would give Gary Neville kudos he didnt bother with agents. Did his contract talks himself, obviously easier for a one club player which doesnt exist now really, but shows that it is/ was possible.

I know there are a few NFL players have represented themselves in the last couple of years, and I know NFL contracts are a lot more complex with "guaranteed" money etc but I think the general consensus was they got their eyes wiped by the teams

Agents are experts. Representing yourself in a football move is akin to representing yourself on a murder charge. You wouldn't do that so why would you not use an agent. Also clubs probably use agents far more than players.

I didnt say it was for everyone, Neville was definitely not some wide eyed younster when he was doing this and he was dealing with a trusted partner at the time.

General point stands which Neville himself made a distinction between an ordinary player like him compared to a Ronaldo/ Beckham who had other sponsors and complications like that in a contract.

I guess the world has moved on even since then.

[trailer]

Are players that dumb that they allow agents take a cut in the tens of millions from a transfer?
In Pogba's transfer from Juve, Mino Raiola made something equivalent of 2 years of Pogba salary.

If you were switching jobs would you let a recruitment pocket that sort of wedge?

Bord, I think the agents or super-agents now are more involved in actually generating the moves for these players so that might jusitfy the increase in their cut.

This is where I would give Gary Neville kudos he didnt bother with agents. Did his contract talks himself, obviously easier for a one club player which doesnt exist now really, but shows that it is/ was possible.

I know there are a few NFL players have represented themselves in the last couple of years, and I know NFL contracts are a lot more complex with "guaranteed" money etc but I think the general consensus was they got their eyes wiped by the teams

Agents are experts. Representing yourself in a football move is akin to representing yourself on a murder charge. You wouldn't do that so why would you not use an agent. Also clubs probably use agents far more than players.

I don't have an issue with Agents negotiating hard on behalf of their clients. What I have a hard time with is an Agent trying to engineer a move for a player who is under contract, by leaking stories, agitiating and causing grief and hassle for the club who he shook hands with in the fairly recent past on a deal.

Agents who do that are cockroaches in my view, and are operating with their own best interests in mind, not the players. Agents far happier to bag 10% of a 60 million deal than 10% of a wages deal.

Who do you think generates the interest in the first place? The buying club. They tell agent they want player x and he'll get so much. Every club does this. No one club is immune from this.

[Maroon Manc]

Its hard to get excited about a season knowing the board won't back the manager, they knew what they were getting when appointing Mourinho but they've simply not backed him to the extent that was required, why they gave him a new contract if they weren't going to back him was crazy.

Woodward is a clown when it comes to football matters, he has no idea about football but know is deciding who we buy which is ridiculous; United are in a shambolic mess and I'd certainly put more of it down to Woodward than Mourinho. I've mentioned this several time before, United really struggle to achieve the going rate for their players as they pay them far too much. The wage bill is way out of control given the lack of success.

United needed to buy 6 or 7 players in the first summer Mourinho arrived which didn't happen, we needed 5 new players last summer which ended up been 3 and still needed 5 players this summer which turned into 1 senior player and a 19 year fullback who I think has played 7 games for Porto.

I'd imagine United will go for Pochettino in the summer, he's perfect for what the Glazers are looking for; They'll be happy as long as United continue to finish top 4 and win the odd trophy.

I've written off this season already.

[thewobbler]

Extraordinary.

United's board refuse to pay £75m to add another centre half, to a squad falling down with international centre halves. And somehow the board is the problem, and not a manager who has left behind demoralised, under-performing changing rooms at every club he's been at since Porto.

[thewobbler]

United fans wanted immediate success, so the board did the most logical thing they could, and brought in mr immediate success in Mourinho.

But as his way, he has begun the process of alienating everyone at the club. Giving him more money for new toys now, unless it's for a Messi, Ronaldo, De Bruyne or Hazard, who can add 10 points a year to any team's season, would be fundamentally insane.

I'd hate to see how you plan your own finances Maroon Manc

[Geoff Tipps]

It's hard to keep count of the number of players United need to buy 

[Boycey]

Thinking sacking Mourinho is the silver bullet that will magically make the problems at the club go away is pie in the sky. He's a symptom not the root cause. The club is rotten from the top down.

[thewobbler]

Thinking sacking Mourinho is the silver bullet that will magically make the problems at the club go away is pie in the sky. He's a symptom not the root cause. The club is rotten from the top down.

How is the club rotten?

The board have chucked half a billion pounds to two of the most decorated managers in recent footballing history. It's exactly what 99% of football fans would love to see happen to their club.

[Cunny Funt]

Only trophy likely to be won under Pochettino is a manager of the month award. Style of football will improve though and that should be enough to keep some supporters happy.

[magpie seanie]

An extraordinary post Maroon Manc. It's rubbish to suggest the didn't back Mourinho. They bought the two centre halves he wanted last year. They got the striker he wanted. They got the midfielder he wanted. They've spent huge money and they now realise what the likes of me knew before Mourinho arrived - he is simply not up to the job. He rigidly sticks to a (now defunct) template and cannot develop or coach young players - both of which are absolutely the antithesis of what this club has been built on. He should be sacked but they're probably going to try and avoid a big payoff so the season will be tossed away.

I agree that sacking Mourinho alone will not solve things. Woodward seems to be an idiot alright and the next managerial appointment is crucial. I think Zidane could get a lot more out of the current squad than Mourinho and probably Pochettino. And they'd develop Shaw, Rashford and Martial and then we'd know whether they're going to be the players the club needs or not. Best to find that out while they're still at United.

Remember who was in charge when Ferguson turned the club around. Martin Edwards. United have certainly not been blessed with a great boardroom at any stage. Blaming the board is a cop out especially when you're implicitly defending a manager who has fallen out with the board practically everywhere he has been at exactly the same stage - in his 3rd year. This is so bloody obvious and has been so since the start.

[Maroon Manc]

Mourinho has hardly been a massive failure, United finished 2nd last season achieving 12 more points then they did the year before. The football was poor and the CL exit was extremely tame so clearly he's not exempt from criticism but why give him a new contract 8 months ago if he wasn't going to be backed in the summer?

United have a large squad full of players on far too much money which United will struggle to move on and they've all either been bought by Woodward or he's given them new contracts, he's a very poor negotiator.

Mourinho has been backed but not to the extent that was required or to the extent Pep was and Pep inherited a team with a lot more quality; Klopp as it stands has out performed all of his rivals in the transfer market to be fair. United needed a complete overhaul inside the first 2 years and it never came, apparently Mourinho only buys players in their prime but Bailly, Lindelof, Fred, Pogba & Lukaku were all in their mid 20's and mostly younger when they were bought. Mourinho is far from blameless and off course he deserves criticism but United's problems run far deeper than him.

Woodward is way out of his depth.

[thewobbler]

I think you're overestimating the pull / gravitas of Man Utd here Maroon.

It'll take diehard United fans a few years to come to terms with this, but the pull of Manchester United during the Fergie era was guaranteed silverware. So if Spurs, West Ham, Everton, Newcastle, Leeds, Blackburn had a player who was clearly top-drawer and was ambitious for trophies, all United had to do was leak a story to the press and the wheels would be set in motion. They'd get their man. Of course United always paid better than average, but money wasn't the main motivator behind playing for Fergie.

Nowadays, United have been pulled back onto the same pedestal as Liverpool. It's an attractive club, make no mistake, but if they've eyes on a premiership player, chances are that Chelsea, City and Liverpool will have eyes too. It was a simple choice for everyone apart from Alan Shearer a decade ago. Not so now.

So United have to rely more on scouting of foreign players, and place more trust in potential than proven end product in the EPL these days. Perhaps Woodward's biggest failing in recent seasons has been in fulfilling manger's shopping lists without analysing if the money being spent properly. But then again, if you're going to hire Van Gaal and Mourinho and then tell them what to do, that's madness in itself. I'm not sure he can really win here.

[seafoid]

Mourinho has hardly been a massive failure, United finished 2nd last season achieving 12 more points then they did the year before. The football was poor and the CL exit was extremely tame so clearly he's not exempt from criticism but why give him a new contract 8 months ago if he wasn't going to be backed in the summer?

United have a large squad full of players on far too much money which United will struggle to move on and they've all either been bought by Woodward or he's given them new contracts, he's a very poor negotiator.

Mourinho has been backed but not to the extent that was required or to the extent Pep was and Pep inherited a team with a lot more quality; Klopp as it stands has out performed all of his rivals in the transfer market to be fair. United needed a complete overhaul inside the first 2 years and it never came, apparently Mourinho only buys players in their prime but Bailly, Lindelof, Fred, Pogba & Lukaku were all in their mid 20's and mostly younger when they were bought. Mourinho is far from blameless and off course he deserves criticism but United's problems run far deeper than him.

Woodward is way out of his depth.

Woodward is a banker so he doesn't know much about football.
Coming second might be ok but not to Man City.
There are no quick fixes to the Man Utd crisis. I think the club went through a similar period of mediocrity in the 70s after Busby retired. Several managers won nothing.