Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[johnneycool]

I just shake my head now.

Forgot the smiley face for the first part and the leisure centre bit just for good measure 😈

[orangeman]

Dear oh dear.

[T Fearon]

Typical those at the helm of the GAA more interested in ego trips and finance instead of patrons' safety

[Nigel White]

The guy seems to be a bit of a jobsworth if you ask me

[Kidder81]

If anyone was in any doubt, this is a pig headed vanity project by certain figures in the GAA & Sinn Fein & thy want it to happen regardless of residents concerns or safety concerns.

[ONeill]

There was always a doubt in people's minds about some of those who opposed the way this stadium was being driven. I'd say there was a 10% of voice in my head yelling 'more money and/or anti-gaa and/or stubborn'.

Fair play to anyone who opposed these plans from the outset.

[T Fearon]

Ulster GAA issued statement tonight denying pressurising anyone,saying spectator safety is always their priority and resenting getting drawn in to a HR grievance within SportNI

[Nigel White]

If anyone was in any doubt, this is a pig headed vanity project by certain figures in the GAA & Sinn Fein & thy want it to happen regardless of residents concerns or safety concerns.

What a complete load of bollix. Are you saying the GAA was wrong to have a vision of a modern stadium for Ulster to replace the outdated shithole  that Clones has become. If people like you had their way Croke Park would never have been developed to the world class facility it is today. We'll see how valid the safety concerns were when the data is independently assessed as part of the DCAL review

[Applesisapples]

A couple of points, this report relates to the old planning application which was thrown out by JR because of those concerns amongst other issues. Any new application will have to address these. It does question though the appointments by the SDLP of Mark H and of Caral by SF on the basis of political expediency rather than ability. Time to build this in Armagh me thinks!

[snatter]

I've just had an idea.

What about building the stadium on a site big enough?

Like Musgrave Park, 300m away.

[Wildweasel74]

It a was always a concern that 38k could get out of here, i have bought a couple of houses at the fair end of the ground, demolish them and take for a exit point from the stadium. The maze site was always the best location if they could have sorted a better road network into it, political bitching messed that one up. Using casement for concerts i could never understand due to the noise levels, the foo fighters could be heard nearly 8 miles away one night 3yrs back, what would they sound like at this new stadium with houses just next door.

[snatter]

From the aerial photo there must be around 50 properties along the stadium perimeter each one costing around 150000 pounds (or more) - The GAA could end up with a hefty bill very quickly

They could end up with a big bill, but they can rebuild these or just sell them again and get most of the money back.

Or they could do what they should have done from the start - build the f*ing stadium on a site that's f*ing big enough.

That way, you can

• build it as high as you like.
• have a roof on all four sides.
• offer better views to more people by have the deepest stands down the sides of the pitches, not behind one of the goals.
• run as many concerts as you like (critical for long term running costs).
• avoid having to close one SW Belfast's arterial routes.
• avoid years of legal challenges which you will almost certainly lose..

It's simple. Not complicated.
The Casement site is, and always was too small.

If Belfast doesn't stump up a larger site, (eg Musgrave Park), then move it out to somewhere that wants it (and take the rugby world cup along with us).

Can one of our noble, hard working Belfast City Councillors tell us how much would a token 100 year lease on Musgrave Park would be? And then compare that to the cost of blackmail-buying an ever-increasing list of houses around Casement.

It won't take a forensic accountant to tell you that it would be cheaper, even now, to go down the route of a proper stadium on a new site rather than building 3/4 of a stadium involving the senseless purchase of several dozens of surrounding houses at inflated prices.

Bump

[snatter]

In another European country, or even in America, the City would vest these houses, it is not as if vast areas of Belfast have not been vested in the past. But in Ireland a stadia to be used by large numbers of the public seem to be deemed a private good.

However, Snatter has a point, the present location is mainly down to sectarianism.

You could buy the houses, halve the gardens and probably biuld new houses there and sell them to people happy enough with a short garden. The cost would not be that great.

No, I do not think that the present Casement site is down to sectarianism. I don't know where you got that from.

Casement was chosen because the GAA Ulster Council were advised by (an unknown & unpublished) consultancy report in 2010 that said Casement could accommodate a 40k fully covered stadium. Clearly it can't and never could - I do wish the original report was published, so all GAA members can see the basis for choosing a site that, whilst GAA-owned, was always too small and constrained.

--

RE Musgrave - I was making the obvious point that, whilst only a few hundred metres across the motorway, it is widely perceived as a neutral area. Consequently, it's more likely to attract the custom of Unionists for non-GAA events, eg concerts & conferences. With Unionists making up just short of 50% of the Grt Belfast population, that equates to more income. More income = less financial maintence burden in future.

--

RE Belfast City Council:  it is my view is that it is now clear that there are massive problems with ever getting the originally tendered 40k all seated & covered stadium on the Casement site.

That has been the case since
1. the capacity was dropped from the tendered 40k to 37k
2. the A'town Rd stand roof was removed, again to appease residents.
3. The official Northern Ireland Environment Agency report where their principal landscape architect slated the development, describing it as "overbearing" and not in keeping with its surroundings. See http://belfastmediagroup.com/new-setback-for-casement/
4. The improbability of the GAA being allowed to block main arterial routes for hours on event days.

The quality of what is now proposed falls well short of the project's original aims.

In such circumstances, I'd have expected Belfast City Council to have been proactive, and to jointly explore alternative locations with the GAA project team, in order that the originally planned top quality 40k fully covered stadium could be built. And built in Belfast. I'd have expected BCC to do this in recognition of the economic benefits of hosting a top class 40k stadium.

Approximately 10 months ago, BCC did have some "non-job" put out a press release about whether there was anything that BCC could do to facilitate or enhance the stadium developments at Windsor, Ravenhill & Casement. Reading the detail of the BCC initiative, it became clear that the main focus was to use the site of BCC's Olympia leisure centre to build a sports village alongside Windsor Park, enhancing and facilitating the Windsor redevelopment.

Now that the odds are stacked against Casement, why aren't BCC proactively looking at the feasability of granting Musgrave (or the Boucher Rd playing fields, or anywhere else) for the orignal 40k stadium proposed. Why aren't they engaging with the GAA to see how the best possible stadium & associated commercial facilities could be developed to give the best economic lift to Belfast?
Why aren't they examing how best they could use their power and influence to facilitate an alternative site?

That's what Cork adn Liverpool City Councils did.
Can any BCC staffers or councillors tell us why BCC aren't doing the same?

BCC need to step up to the mark and facilitate a much needed plan B. If they can use council property to facilitate the Windsor Park soccer development, then there's no reason they can't do the same for the GAA.

Bump

[snatter]

Fold Housing plan for former Visteon factory in west Belfast

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25581367


The old Ford factory is

• a far larger site than Casement
• consequently much further away from residents
• is available for development right now
• has it's own access road
• is v close to Finaghy station

I wonder if some lateral thinking would allow the GAA to do some sort of a land swap with Fold, Casement for the Ford factory.

This would allow the GAA to

1. build a proper sized stadium with a roof on all four sides.
Planning permission would be straightforward for the GAA, as the stadium would be regarded as replacement economic activity, especially if some work units were incorporated into the build.
2. avoid an almost certain lengthy legal challenge from Casement residents, who may have a fair chance of winning.

Fold would benefit from planning,a s it's by no means certain that the planners will approve a change of use from economic activity to housing.

Any thoughts?

Bump

[Rossfan]

Triple bump it seems