Qualifiers.

Started by The Monument Road, June 04, 2017, 06:06:57 PM

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ILikeStrawberryJam

I'm with high fielder we simply dont have any decent man markers. None. A half fit Timmons is the best we have.
Any decent attack will and have taken us to the cleaners. Clare have some nice forwards.. 
There is no one in Laois that wants a replay over the 7 subs .. That says it all

We should have enough to get promoted .. division 3 is probably our level .. Clare are a much better team that Laois at the moment and they  are
an average division 2 side so we definately aint a division 2 side anymore regardless whose in charge ..

As for Creedon he should probably go. Its been a disastrous year. The players just dont look fit. I think thats partly why there is so many
sending offs. Mis-timed tackles etc. We never looked like a team all year. Donie trying to do it on his own. Johnno plouging through the middle
Could another manager get them fit and motivated? i dunno ...
You get the feeling that a lot of them are just not willing to put in what is necessary to be competitive at inter county these days.
Question is if Creedon does go who would want it ..

i think there will be several retirements one way or the other.

A ten year plan needs to be put in place ..

Laoiseabu

Unison most of the lads you named there are either there already or have been tried and not good enough . We need kids who will be men not kids who will stay kids .

BallyroanAbu

#212
Why in this county do we accept this ?  If we ask why or mention this is not good enough we are traitors to the cause.   Well I am not a traitor and quite passionate about football, it's got me through some bleak times in my life.  I don't think I have ever been as depressed as these last 5 years, they have worn away at the optimism I had.   I know I have been bleating this for some time but Malachy or Clancy are really obvious choices.   I am sure High Fielder, Tony or Don will call me an idiot but I genuinely think Laois Football needs Laois Men at the helm at this juncture.  Also those players Unison mentioned have been tried by managers who I think have not a clue what they were doing so anything they have come up with I would consider null and void.  Buggie is a decent player who I would have had starting this year.

Junior Ex Laoistalk

Quote from: ILikeStrawberryJam on July 02, 2017, 07:08:52 PM
There is no one in Laois that wants a replay over the 7 subs .. That says it all
This is disgusting, it shouldn't matter whether we want it or not, our Co. Board should look for it, our Manager should look for it and the powers that be should insist that a replay must be played. They are the rules made by those guys and like it or not we have to play by the rules.

No mention of it at all on the Sunday game tonight but if it were any other team as has happened in the past it would be brought up and discussed by the panel. Are we really that insignificant now and are we just gonna stand by and let them away with this...

This is the rule:
The GAA's rule 6.44 b (ii) states that a team which exceeds the number of substitutes allowed can forfeit a game, be forced to play a replay or be fined, depending on the circumstances.

Remember this...   
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/laois-facing-replay-with-armagh-after-seven-subs-blunder-34818768.html
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/laois-in-danger-of-championship-elimination-over-subs-used-v-armagh-740898.html
Winners are not those who never fail, but those who never quit!

maccer

Don't think there's anything in the substitution issue. I think it was the second last Clare substitution I happened to be looking at the ref as he spoke to a Clare player. The ref definitely made the 'T' sign with his hand before the Clare player went off holding his wrist/forearm. Remember thinking it was a strange blood sub. There must have been some blood visible to the ref.
Only second time I saw laois this year and extremely disappointed. No aggression, work ethic, passion, stomach for a fight, support play, tackling....I could go on. No sharpness in terms of fitness or ball work. Peter Creedon has to accept some blame but remember teams in the past where players stood up during tournaments and took control of THEIR team if management was letting them down (offaly hurlers with Babs, Cork hurlers, French rugby and soccer teams). Some posters are saying we need laois people leading laois teams at this point. We had 20 or so LAOIS people wearing Laois jerseys on the pitch yesterday. They have to accept responsibility for not giving everything possible and more. You can say they give unreal commitment training I didn't see much yesterday where it matters...on the pitch.
Doesn't matter who your manager is or what poor system is in place. You're representing your county and you should 'die with your boots on' as the saying goes. Saw too many players taking easy options (eg shadowing alongside Clare players running with the ball instead of tackling hard like kildare did against Meath). People might point to creedon but these players are playing football 20+ years surely to god they know how to tackle at this stage or what have they been doing all this time.
Heard Mick Bohan (ex Dublin coach ) talk lately how Johnnie Cooper was constantly challenging him looking to improve his game , working on his perceived weaknesses. Would our players do that or are they just happy to tag along each year like sheep

Tony

#215
We can live in fairytale land or we can live in the realistic world.

If you want to live in fairytale land like some posters on here : fine. Disregard that we don't have much pace on the team apart from O connor, donogher, attride. Disregard that we're an aging team with most of our top players approaching 30 or above with likely retirements from a few big names. Disregard that we don't have quality man markers at all in the county bar timmons and healy and cahir is a hurler now. Disregard that our forwards (bar Donie) are average and lack killer pace. Get Jim McGuinness back from China or equivalent and we'll be Div 2 in no time, all with magician like Clancy, Roe or Higgins.

I'm not slating those 3 men but last time I checked they weren't performing magic and can only work with what they've got.

If you want to be REALISTIC, you'll know that our squad is aging, we badly need new fresh talent. We BADLY need to compete with other underage structures to compete. Like Kildare underage - light years ahead of Laois underage and that didn't happen by accident. It's taken years but they are seeing some rewards now.

I don't even care if Creedon or someone else is there at senior next year. IT DOES NOT MATTER. Can you not see that? Senior is irrelevant for a few years. We'll need to focus only on underage and rejuvenate our dormant and tired club scene. We will not be division 2 in senior within a few years with the current players. We need fresh blood - fast, conditioned, strong players in their correct roles, to compete. That will be years in the making and it will require a main focus elsewhere than senior.

Take Sean Moore as an example - quality young footballer in Laois. Pre 2000's, he would be a fine prospect for the senior county team. We need the likes of him to be conditioned properly with a focus on strength training and speed. The old way is no longer going to fly and that is clear. We need to get quality people into underage again, good people who know what the modern game is. Otherwise the likes of Moore (nice young lad and nice footballer but slight and unconditioned) will be slaughtered by teams like Kildare, Dublin, Meath, etc in a few years.

Laoisguy

Some good smart posts about the state of Laois football,pity county board wouldn't act on them

I honestly think a significant cohort of the panel are gone stale and institutionalised at this stage
A big cull is required to refresh the panel

I wonder can Creeden do it
Previously I thought he was great ,good communicator etc
Laois need a passionate disciplinarian at this stage

Of course at the end of the day I blame county board who just sit there and do nothing
A disgrace and the real reason we are here at this crossroads

blueandwhite1

Quote from: Tony on July 03, 2017, 07:31:17 AM
We can live in fairytale land or we can live in the realistic world.

If you want to live in fairytale land like some posters on here : fine. Disregard that we don't have much pace on the team apart from O connor, donogher, attride. Disregard that we're an aging team with most of our top players approaching 30 or above with likely retirements from a few big names. Disregard that we don't have quality man markers at all in the county bar timmons and healy and cahir is a hurler now. Disregard that our forwards (bar Donie) are average and lack killer pace. Get Jim McGuinness back from China or equivalent and we'll be Div 2 in no time, all with magician like Clancy, Roe or Higgins.

I'm not slating those 3 men but last time I checked they weren't performing magic and can only work with what they've got.

If you want to be REALISTIC, you'll know that our squad is aging, we badly need new fresh talent. We BADLY need to compete with other underage structures to compete. Like Kildare underage - light years ahead of Laois underage and that didn't happen by accident. It's taken years but they are seeing some rewards now.

I don't even care if Creedon or someone else is there at senior next year. IT DOES NOT MATTER. Can you not see that? Senior is irrelevant for a few years. We'll need to focus only on underage and rejuvenate our dormant and tired club scene. We will not be division 2 in senior within a few years with the current players. We need fresh blood - fast, conditioned, strong players in their correct roles, to compete. That will be years in the making and it will require a main focus elsewhere than senior.

Take Sean Moore as an example - quality young footballer in Laois. Pre 2000's, he would be a fine prospect for the senior county team. We need the likes of him to be conditioned properly with a focus on strength training and speed. The old way is no longer going to fly and that is clear. We need to get quality people into underage again, good people who know what the modern game is. Otherwise the likes of Moore (nice young lad and nice footballer but slight and unconditioned) will be slaughtered by teams like Kildare, Dublin, Meath, etc in a few years.

Completely agree. Football is now about advanced athleticism as well as skill. We are producing neither for years now. I remember listening to an interview with an Armagh player in the 2000s saying that playing Laois was a tough ask because there were so many young fellas flying around with pace, skill and energy that you could never relax. The problem back then was our lack of size. Now, we have size but little else and our best players are too old for inter county. Counties like Kildare, Dublin and Tyrone are producing players that are total athletes and have all the skills too. We are miles behind. The people who run football in Laois need to be replaced by people who can put us AHEAD of the curve, rather than always trying to catch up 10 years too late.

Fixing this will take years. Prepare for more days like last Saturday.

Helmut

I was there in O Moore Park for my sins on Saturday amidst one of the smallest crowds I have seen this year and like most people who were there it was a painful experience.
Within three seconds of the start of the game we had won a free. At that moment  my two year old chose to pull my leg for a snack and by the time I had given it to him and looked up we were a point down inside the opening minute and the same old foreboding that has come with every Laois match this season came back again.
There are some good posts on this thread and there are sadly a lot of bad ones but a general consensus seems to be that replacing Creedon is not the answer and that we simply don't have the players to compete at this level. This is something I can't agree with.
While we obviously don't have the players of yester year do we really have that worse of a team than Clare, Louth, Sligo, Antrim or Offaly of all teams? Now I know we have a lot of problems with the county structure and the board but for me I don't think we do and I think a lot of that comes from the manager. And if we have to start there.
Clare were no great shakes but for most of the game if not all of it looked comfortably better than us. Simply because they looked organised and had a plan and we, like nearly every game I have seen us play this year look like a shambles.
Examples of this would be the contrast in kickouts. The majority of our kickouts were long to the middle were a single laois man jumped usually on his own against 2-3 Clare players who broke the ball off him and we had no one even close to gather it up. Farrell must have been told to do a dummy run for each or own kickout's because he would start on one wing and loop around to the other and then back again as the ball was being kicked. No one from Clare even bothered tracking him and not one kickout landed near him.
Clare on the other hand took short kickouts. They won their first 5-6 kickouts with short ones to the backs while our forwards retreated up the pitch allowing them 40-50 yards before even attempting a tackle. Indeed some of their early scores came from a kickout and then 2-3 passes up the pitch without a single laois hand touching a Clare player which is criminal at this level.
After the first 5-6 kickouts someone decided that we had to push up on them which resulted in the Clare backs getting into a huddle and then breaking in all directions at once to receive the short kick out and hand pass it back to their keeper. As soon as the keeper received the ball again the Laois forwards retreated back and the same thing happened again. It was a snapshot of everything we have done this season. It was half arsed.
Under Creedon we have looked to play a defensive game with players crowding back and often a lone Donnie or an empty pitch ahead of them. At like most things done this year again it is half arsed. Players don't seem to know what to do in this defensive system apart from get back. Its like being told today you have to build a house here's a hammer and having no clue what to do after that. No one seems to know how to track runners, when to double mark, at what point you stop retreating and at what point you push up. With frightening regularity a static midfield is facing 2-3 players running full speed at them and is quickly over run.
Our fitness this year has also been shocking and this is something we never really had a problem with before. Against Kildare we were blowing after 20 mins and in most games this year we have faded off badly at the end.
Our support running is non existent at times and our movement off the ball is criminal. One of the worst examples of this was in Tullamore when late in the game Brody had to solo out the ball. He ended up in Kildare half, alone with four Kildare players around him and not one Laois player within twenty yards. This is not a skill issue or not having the player's issue. Its players not being fit enough or arsed enough or coached enough to run in support.
After watching Laois this year I have no idea what Creedon has done or what he has hoped to achieve. I can't say we are an attacking team or a defensive team. All I know is we are a poor team. To say the players are not there is an easy excuse but all the above are just simple examples of bad play. Nothing to do with skill. It's about bad management and organisation and fitness. We might not be able to change the players but we can change these things with a better manager.
Someone made a comment about Jim McGuinness a couple of posts ago and I ll be honest before the Donegal job I had never heard of the man. I m sure there an awful lot of managers out there in a similar vein managing at club or college level waiting for a chance.  Look at Cian O Neill with Kildare. There are still only a small few county managers jobs available each year. Managers that have a plan at least or think outside the box.
Because at the moment we are playing with no definite plan of action, players don't know what to do or when to do it and in such a situation good players look average at best and average players look very poor.

redsetanta

Would the likes of Noel Garvan have anything to offer the senior set up. Could he manage? Amybe alongside someine else?
The real glory is being knocked to your knees and then coming back. That's real glory. VinceLombardi

Unison

#220
Creedon wants to continue. I suppose it is handy money, and after all, expectations are never too high in Laois. Sure we're just happy to be taking part. Carry on Peter, but you have some neck!!!


BallyroanAbu

#221
Tony come on for the last 6 months Creedon was your man to turn things round, now because he failed no one can succeed. High Fielder we have the players to be competive in Div 2,  it's about time we remember we have some pride.  The problem these days that most players think they are bigger than the jersey, it's all  about I rather than the team. The brutal thing is some of them don't even realise they are doing this.  In the way you have stuck your neck out I will continually,  Padraig Clancy is the man to take Laois forward, I think Malachy deserves it more on form and logic.  But my personal opinion is that Clancy has the X Factor to bring a lot of diverse sections within Laois to pull together in one direction.  I am utterly convinced of this no matter how much ridicule I have to take.

Unison

Quote from: BallyroanAbu on July 03, 2017, 06:02:17 PM
Padraig Clancy is the man to take Laois forward, I think Malachy deserves it more on form and logic.  But my personal opinion is that Clancy has the X Factor to bring a lot of diverse sections within Laois to pull together in one direction.

Maybe you are right BallyroanAbu about Clancy. He would be fully committed anyway. We still need to look at how the GAA is run in the county.

BallyroanAbu

Your 100% on that but very hard to sort

Tony

Ah come off it Ballyroan. Let's say we get the same Leinster draw for 2018 as 2017. We might get past Longford 50/50 but do you think with the current squad and it's lack of pace and overall ability we'll come anywhere near Kildare, with Clancy as the only difference? Do you think Clancy with a couple of years can turn this around? You seem like a genuine guy and I respect your posts, I just don't think you're thinking about our serious limitations accross the board, not just at senior level. That's my point - this goes all the way down through gaa culture in Laois. Creedon didn't just get us to an all time low by himself - this has been coming since 2007!! We've been shamed for years now, terrible defeat after terrible defeat! Antrim, tipp, hidings from Kildare - do you remember all that? Creedon wasn't here then but the players were. We've had poor season after poor season since 2007, apart from a couple of years with McNulty but he wasn't flashy enough so we ran him! In my opinion, that was our man - he made us competitive - but even then it was ugly football, I agree - a real double bagger. It's how you get an average team competitive though. Clancy is a nice fellow but come on you'll have to admit that he's not going to change the disease we have throughout laois gaa. On a side note I do respect your posts and appreciate you writing coherantly and not maliciously, like another poster. At the end of the day we all want what's best for laois.