Tyrone County Football and Hurling

[square_ball]

Hard to disagree with anything said above. McKenna and McCurry were the only bright sparks in my opinion. The 2 goals were shocking - a dummy took 3 men out and a simple handpass bypassed 5 men.

Tyrone do have a tendency to pull a performance out the following week after a poor performance but I just don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if they beat mayo and Donegal but I'm not optimistic.

How stupid was Rory Brennan by the way? That's him gone for 12 weeks pending an undoubted appeal.

[GetOverTheBar]

Yesterday was a game of shadow boxing be different in two weeks time imo.

Lets hope so, because that first half was absolute nonsense.

McKenna at Full Forward caused a bit of bother. How much of it was Donegal home and hosed, who knows but at least it looked a bit better shape wise. We are still in the situation where we have a mix and match of about any of 10 players on any given day could all start and there isn't a whole pile between any of them.

Donegal, for a county team that couldn't train together there for a few weeks looked a few levels above which is very worrying.

Donegal have played a number of challenge games recently though, they played Mayo and Roscommon in the past two weeks.

McKenna did well at full forward and I'd keep him in there the next day, hopefully Harte is back too.

The big issues for me are the gaping hole in the middle of our defence, the lack of a midfield and the complete absence of a kickout strategy.

If you watch back yesterday, look at the difference between the two teams on kickouts, everytime Patton put the ball down there were Donegal players bursting into open space with no Tyrone player near them. In contrast anytime Morgan put the ball down every Tyrone man was pretty much marked tightly. Which led to Morgan having to go long down the pitch and allowed Donegal to dominate there, this is a clear failing on the training ground. Donegal targeted this relentlessly.

Kilpatrick/Kennedy/R Donnelly/McClure are the outright midfield options in our squad, just go with two of them, leave Hampsey in defence and leave McKenna and Mattie in the attack.

Who else was missing from the matchday squad yesterday? Kennedy and Harte were named but replaced and apart from that Cassidy, R Donnelly and Bradley were the only players I could think of not there that might have started. Coney is not getting much of a look in either, thought he would have been a better option to bring in ahead of O'Neill and Mulgrew.

Fair enough, I have heard Tyrone have played plenty of in house stuff though v U20s and a select which included some much promoted names on this board. Next Sunday v Mayo will be a Championship game in itself now.

Sure you know yourself, you won't see Kilpatrick this year. That's just what Harte does. Kennedy has been there a few years now and he's still unknown. Forget about McClure. He's been there even longer. I've a feeling you'll see McKenna go to Midfield in the Donegal Championship game.

[bigpackiechestout]

Yesterday was a game of shadow boxing be different in two weeks time imo.

Lets hope so, because that first half was absolute nonsense.

McKenna at Full Forward caused a bit of bother. How much of it was Donegal home and hosed, who knows but at least it looked a bit better shape wise. We are still in the situation where we have a mix and match of about any of 10 players on any given day could all start and there isn't a whole pile between any of them.

Donegal, for a county team that couldn't train together there for a few weeks looked a few levels above which is very worrying.

Donegal have played a number of challenge games recently though, they played Mayo and Roscommon in the past two weeks.

McKenna did well at full forward and I'd keep him in there the next day, hopefully Harte is back too.

The big issues for me are the gaping hole in the middle of our defence, the lack of a midfield and the complete absence of a kickout strategy.

If you watch back yesterday, look at the difference between the two teams on kickouts, everytime Patton put the ball down there were Donegal players bursting into open space with no Tyrone player near them. In contrast anytime Morgan put the ball down every Tyrone man was pretty much marked tightly. Which led to Morgan having to go long down the pitch and allowed Donegal to dominate there, this is a clear failing on the training ground. Donegal targeted this relentlessly.

Kilpatrick/Kennedy/R Donnelly/McClure are the outright midfield options in our squad, just go with two of them, leave Hampsey in defence and leave McKenna and Mattie in the attack.

Who else was missing from the matchday squad yesterday? Kennedy and Harte were named but replaced and apart from that Cassidy, R Donnelly and Bradley were the only players I could think of not there that might have started. Coney is not getting much of a look in either, thought he would have been a better option to bring in ahead of O'Neill and Mulgrew.

Fair enough, I have heard Tyrone have played plenty of in house stuff though v U20s and a select which included some much promoted names on this board. Next Sunday v Mayo will be a Championship game in itself now.

Sure you know yourself, you won't see Kilpatrick this year. That's just what Harte does. Kennedy has been there a few years now and he's still unknown. Forget about McClure. He's been there even longer. I've a feeling you'll see McKenna go to Midfield in the Donegal Championship game.

Were players not currently on the panel asked in for in house games? Any names?

Rory Brennan will be a huge loss if he's out for remainder of the year. He's one of our go to man markers for the oppositions more physical forward and rarely lets us down. Thought he did a decent job on Murphy yesterday too. Bit late for this year but I think Peter Teague from Dromore is capable of performing a similar role, he impressed in the club championship this year.

Angelo's point on the kickouts was a key one from yesterday. Over the past few years, when the ball goes dead we've gotten so used to the TV coverage showing replays of scores and by the time the camera switches back to the play the kickout has been taken and we've missed what's happened. For so many of Morgan's kickouts yesterday, after the replay it panned back to the action and he was still standing over the ball trying for find an option, and eventually had to go long where our makeshift midfield inevitably lost out to Donegal's bigger men. It was unlike us as we're usually good at getting the short kickouts away and this is even more important when we don't have big targets in the middle of the field.

[delgany]

Yesterday was a game of shadow boxing be different in two weeks time imo.

Lets hope so, because that first half was absolute nonsense.

McKenna at Full Forward caused a bit of bother. How much of it was Donegal home and hosed, who knows but at least it looked a bit better shape wise. We are still in the situation where we have a mix and match of about any of 10 players on any given day could all start and there isn't a whole pile between any of them.

Donegal, for a county team that couldn't train together there for a few weeks looked a few levels above which is very worrying.

Donegal have played a number of challenge games recently though, they played Mayo and Roscommon in the past two weeks.

McKenna did well at full forward and I'd keep him in there the next day, hopefully Harte is back too.

The big issues for me are the gaping hole in the middle of our defence, the lack of a midfield and the complete absence of a kickout strategy.

If you watch back yesterday, look at the difference between the two teams on kickouts, everytime Patton put the ball down there were Donegal players bursting into open space with no Tyrone player near them. In contrast anytime Morgan put the ball down every Tyrone man was pretty much marked tightly. Which led to Morgan having to go long down the pitch and allowed Donegal to dominate there, this is a clear failing on the training ground. Donegal targeted this relentlessly.

Kilpatrick/Kennedy/R Donnelly/McClure are the outright midfield options in our squad, just go with two of them, leave Hampsey in defence and leave McKenna and Mattie in the attack.

Who else was missing from the matchday squad yesterday? Kennedy and Harte were named but replaced and apart from that Cassidy, R Donnelly and Bradley were the only players I could think of not there that might have started. Coney is not getting much of a look in either, thought he would have been a better option to bring in ahead of O'Neill and Mulgrew.

Fair enough, I have heard Tyrone have played plenty of in house stuff though v U20s and a select which included some much promoted names on this board. Next Sunday v Mayo will be a Championship game in itself now.

Sure you know yourself, you won't see Kilpatrick this year. That's just what Harte does. Kennedy has been there a few years now and he's still unknown. Forget about McClure. He's been there even longer. I've a feeling you'll see McKenna go to Midfield in the Donegal Championship game.

Were players not currently on the panel asked in for in house games? Any names?

Rory Brennan will be a huge loss if he's out for remainder of the year. He's one of our go to man markers for the oppositions more physical forward and rarely lets us down. Thought he did a decent job on Murphy yesterday too. Bit late for this year but I think Peter Teague from Dromore is capable of performing a similar role, he impressed in the club championship this year.

Angelo's point on the kickouts was a key one from yesterday. Over the past few years, when the ball goes dead we've gotten so used to the TV coverage showing replays of scores and by the time the camera switches back to the play the kickout has been taken and we've missed what's happened. For so many of Morgan's kickouts yesterday, after the replay it panned back to the action and he was still standing over the ball trying for find an option, and eventually had to go long where our makeshift midfield inevitably lost out to Donegal's bigger men. It was unlike us as we're usually good at getting the short kickouts away and this is even more important when we don't have big targets in the middle of the field.

I thought  the main problem with kickouts  to midfield was that HB &HF completely misread the breaking ball. It was evident that donegal were intent on break ball/ punching it forward, tyrone HB far to far forward to intercept breaks.

[bigpackiechestout]

I thought  the main problem with kickouts  to midfield was that HB &HF completely misread the breaking ball. It was evident that donegal were intent on break ball/ punching it forward, tyrone HB far to far forward to intercept breaks.

This is the point though. The top sides at the moment don't rely on break ball for the most part. They are able to work short kickouts or have free men and overloads on the wings. Yesterday Morgan didn't seem to have many options other than to hit it long down the middle at which point it is a 50/ 50 ball at best, and in reality even less given out makeshift midfield.

[Angelo]

I thought  the main problem with kickouts  to midfield was that HB &HF completely misread the breaking ball. It was evident that donegal were intent on break ball/ punching it forward, tyrone HB far to far forward to intercept breaks.

This is the point though. The top sides at the moment don't rely on break ball for the most part. They are able to work short kickouts or have free men and overloads on the wings. Yesterday Morgan didn't seem to have many options other than to hit it long down the middle at which point it is a 50/ 50 ball at best, and in reality even less given out makeshift midfield.

Yeah, Tyrone players looked to be static on kickouts compared to Donegal. Kickouts are something reflected on the training pitch, if you work on them an get a good strategy then it will work. We just looked to have nothing practiced here. We gave Donegal the handy restarts to build from the back but Donegal were on every one of our kickouts like a rash. Morgan was forced to take bigger and bigger risk with them as a result. He clipped one very risky one out to either Rafferty or Brennan in the second half that a Donegal player got a hand on and if it had been an inch closer he was in on a one on one. That's how desperate we were getting.

The u20s had similar problems on Saturday too.

We know Morgan's kickouts are good so the problem is more with the lack of options, the lack of movement, the lack of any sort of strategy or focus on what we are doing there.

[God14]

Free taking still an issue as well. 10years now we are addressing the same issues
0-2 very straightforward points missed. One from mccurry and one from oneill. A third scorable free you'd also expect to get

Donegal in contrast scored 7 from 7

[Angelo]

Free taking still an issue as well. 10years now we are addressing the same issues
0-2 very straightforward points missed. One from mccurry and one from oneill. A third scorable free you'd also expect to get

Donegal in contrast scored 7 from 7

Two unforgivable misses really, they were very scorable.

Will McKenna eventually take over the right footed free duties, he was very reliable at minor level so I can see him taking that on when he gets more reacquainted.

Harte has been very fairly solid on the left footed ones in recent years though and Morgan's % from the long range ones isn't too bad.

[Taylor]

Free taking still an issue as well. 10years now we are addressing the same issues
0-2 very straightforward points missed. One from mccurry and one from oneill. A third scorable free you'd also expect to get

Donegal in contrast scored 7 from 7

Two unforgivable misses really, they were very scorable.

Will McKenna eventually take over the right footed free duties, he was very reliable at minor level so I can see him taking that on when he gets more reacquainted.

Harte has been very fairly solid on the left footed ones in recent years though and Morgan's % from the long range ones isn't too bad.

Morgans % isnt too bad Angelo but for really top level it isnt enough.
When Murphy, Rock, OConnor, OShea get a free you know they will nail it - Im never confident with ours now

[Goals_Will_Come]

The thing about getting rid of Harte, is there an outstanding candidate available? I don't really see anything inside the county at present that I would look as a marked improvement on Harte. I think a lot of our underage teams in recent years have underachieved and no club manager has been able to do back to backs in Tyrone to make them a viable candidate.

Canavan has that x factor but he has a nice little gig going as it is and I really don't think he'd be interested. He hasn't really managed anyone of note since Fermanagh anyway?

Would we hire an outsider? Malachy O'Rourke did a great job with Monaghan and I think he'd do well with Tyrone but I don't see him bringing the swashbuckling football some seem to think we should be playing. I couldn't see McGuinness taking the job or the Tyrone Co Board affording him but I think he could work wonders with this bunch of players.

Anything to be said for Fergal Logan and his team from the U21 All Ireland winners of 2015 of Canavan and Dooher, even adding someone like Collie Holmes as well?
Majority of that panel have been brought through (potentially could even get Brennan, McNulty, Mullan back involved) and are being backboned by the last 2 U20 teams as well as still having the last few years of Mattie, McNammee and Harte, a new voice could make a big difference to what will still be an impressive panel in 2021.

Harte has done Tyrone enormous service. I think overall he deserves credit for how he has kept Tyrone at the top table in that last decade despite not winning an AI but I think we are now back reaching a talent level that should have us pushing for an AI and things seem to have gone a little stale.

When we have a full contingent available we have a team now capable of winning an All Ireland with McKenna back.

Logan is an option but has he managed anyone since stepping away from the u21s. Would Canavan leave his Sky gig to take up a role?

Midfield is a concern but as someone said earlier, I'd rather we went with actual midfielders than moving forwards and defenders out there. Kilpatrick and Kennedy are raw and unproven but as well let them at it and see how they get on. I'd worry about R Donnelly's pace in midfield but he's a very good footballer and won't get pushed about so I think we should go with him and one of Kennedy/Kilpatrick if they are available.

Our defensive shape is a big worry, we don't seem to have any player tasked with shoring up the middle of the defence, if teams run at us we part like the red sea. We need a designated 6, some players that's going to hold that central channel and organise the defence and make sure teams can't just run through us.

I think the panel needs a bit of upheavel at this point. Too many players there who have had enough time to prove themselves like Ronan O'Neill and Conall McCann, nothing against the lads but they haven't been good enough and it's time to give new players the chance.

Should any of the u20s start next week? Would Canavan be worth a 20 minute cameo?

Niall Morgan
Liam Rafferty Ronan McNamee Padraig Hampsey/Rory Brennan
Michael Cassidy Hampsey/Brennan Frank Burns
Richie Donnelly Conn Kilpatrick
Mattie Donnelly Mark Bradley Kieran McGeary
Darren McCurry Conor McKenna Peter Harte

Probably too ambitious to see Tyrone lining up like that but shows the potential of an excellent team is there. Bradley and McCurry have played their best football for Tyrone coming from the half forward line so having them two play off Peter Harte and Conor McKenna as the vocal points has plenty of potential. Certainly a lot better than pushing defenders and midfielders into make shift forwards.
Think Hampsey and Brennan are our only real options at 6, would probably prefer Brennan at 6 with Hamspey man marking.
Looking at the Tyrone bench yesterday and it looks very stale. Makes me think they should call up the Tyrone U20's (Lorcan Quinn, Antoin Fox, Murnaghan, Canavan, Tiernan Quinn, Ethan Jordan, Oguz) to the panel and have the likes of Conor Quinn involved in the match day panel over Aidan McCrory for example, bit of freshness if nothing else.

[Angelo]

Free taking still an issue as well. 10years now we are addressing the same issues
0-2 very straightforward points missed. One from mccurry and one from oneill. A third scorable free you'd also expect to get

Donegal in contrast scored 7 from 7

Two unforgivable misses really, they were very scorable.

Will McKenna eventually take over the right footed free duties, he was very reliable at minor level so I can see him taking that on when he gets more reacquainted.

Harte has been very fairly solid on the left footed ones in recent years though and Morgan's % from the long range ones isn't too bad.

Morgans % isnt too bad Angelo but for really top level it isnt enough.
When Murphy, Rock, OConnor, OShea get a free you know they will nail it - Im never confident with ours now

O'Shea and Rock. Yes, the best in the business no doubt.
Murphy misses a few too, he's a very good free taker but not perfect.
O'Connor's free taking isn't all that hot, he's reliable from anything inside 35 yards but anything after that is fairly hit and miss.

I think Morgan's % rate probably stacks up as good as anything from that range other than O'Shea, Rock and Beggan.

Our biggest problem would be the frees inside the 45 yard range, I think Harte has been fairly good on them in recent years but the left side I've not been overly convinced - we've had McShane, McAliksey, O'Neill and Cavanagh sharing the duties in the past 5/6 years from there and they haven't been good enough.

Maybe McKenna or Donaghy if he gets a chance can improve us in this department. Maybe Lee Brennan if he gets another chance could improve us here though I do think Harte's frees have been good over the past 2 seasons.

Overall I think Mickey Harte has brought this group as far as he can and it's now time for a fresh voice and new ideas. I do think some of the commentary on here towards Harte has been absolutely disgraceful at times however and a shocking way to treat a man who has brought so much success and joy to Tyrone football.

[the goal was on]

Looks a strong chance season will be cancelled so that's Harte back next year again 100% if that happens

[Angelo]

The thing about getting rid of Harte, is there an outstanding candidate available? I don't really see anything inside the county at present that I would look as a marked improvement on Harte. I think a lot of our underage teams in recent years have underachieved and no club manager has been able to do back to backs in Tyrone to make them a viable candidate.

Canavan has that x factor but he has a nice little gig going as it is and I really don't think he'd be interested. He hasn't really managed anyone of note since Fermanagh anyway?

Would we hire an outsider? Malachy O'Rourke did a great job with Monaghan and I think he'd do well with Tyrone but I don't see him bringing the swashbuckling football some seem to think we should be playing. I couldn't see McGuinness taking the job or the Tyrone Co Board affording him but I think he could work wonders with this bunch of players.

Anything to be said for Fergal Logan and his team from the U21 All Ireland winners of 2015 of Canavan and Dooher, even adding someone like Collie Holmes as well?
Majority of that panel have been brought through (potentially could even get Brennan, McNulty, Mullan back involved) and are being backboned by the last 2 U20 teams as well as still having the last few years of Mattie, McNammee and Harte, a new voice could make a big difference to what will still be an impressive panel in 2021.

Harte has done Tyrone enormous service. I think overall he deserves credit for how he has kept Tyrone at the top table in that last decade despite not winning an AI but I think we are now back reaching a talent level that should have us pushing for an AI and things seem to have gone a little stale.

When we have a full contingent available we have a team now capable of winning an All Ireland with McKenna back.

Logan is an option but has he managed anyone since stepping away from the u21s. Would Canavan leave his Sky gig to take up a role?

Midfield is a concern but as someone said earlier, I'd rather we went with actual midfielders than moving forwards and defenders out there. Kilpatrick and Kennedy are raw and unproven but as well let them at it and see how they get on. I'd worry about R Donnelly's pace in midfield but he's a very good footballer and won't get pushed about so I think we should go with him and one of Kennedy/Kilpatrick if they are available.

Our defensive shape is a big worry, we don't seem to have any player tasked with shoring up the middle of the defence, if teams run at us we part like the red sea. We need a designated 6, some players that's going to hold that central channel and organise the defence and make sure teams can't just run through us.

I think the panel needs a bit of upheavel at this point. Too many players there who have had enough time to prove themselves like Ronan O'Neill and Conall McCann, nothing against the lads but they haven't been good enough and it's time to give new players the chance.

Should any of the u20s start next week? Would Canavan be worth a 20 minute cameo?

Niall Morgan
Liam Rafferty Ronan McNamee Padraig Hampsey/Rory Brennan
Michael Cassidy Hampsey/Brennan Frank Burns
Richie Donnelly Conn Kilpatrick
Mattie Donnelly Mark Bradley Kieran McGeary
Darren McCurry Conor McKenna Peter Harte

Probably too ambitious to see Tyrone lining up like that but shows the potential of an excellent team is there. Bradley and McCurry have played their best football for Tyrone coming from the half forward line so having them two play off Peter Harte and Conor McKenna as the vocal points has plenty of potential. Certainly a lot better than pushing defenders and midfielders into make shift forwards.
Think Hampsey and Brennan are our only real options at 6, would probably prefer Brennan at 6 with Hamspey man marking.
Looking at the Tyrone bench yesterday and it looks very stale. Makes me think they should call up the Tyrone U20's to the panel and have the likes of Conor Quinn involved in the match day panel over Aidan McCrory for example, bit of freshness if nothing else.

I agree with that, pretty much as I'd see it. Burns and McGeary could be swapped in for 2/3 others such as T McCann, Meyler, McKernan etc

Think I'd prefer Hampsey at 6 as I'd like the 6 to clog up that middle channel and organise the defence around it and Hampsey has a real physical impact there. I also think we'd miss Brennan's forays forward if he plays there which can be very effective.

Would also agree on the point re McCrory, you could say similar with Ronan O'Neill when we have the likes of Daniel Kerr in the squad. There's about 10/12 lads on that Tyrone panel now hitting their late 20s who just haven't staked a claim yet and it's time for fresh faces to come in and prove themselves.

I think a new manager starts afresh, maybe get the likes of Lee Brennan, McAliskey and Paudie McNulty back on board next year and see what kind of impact they could make for us.

[Aaron Boone]

Looks a strong chance season will be cancelled so that's Harte back next year again 100% if that happens

Wouldn't fancy that trip to Castlebar to stay in Div 1. Unusual for a team to be relegated on 6 points.

[delgany]

Looks a strong chance season will be cancelled so that's Harte back next year again 100% if that happens

Wouldn't fancy that trip to Castlebar to stay in Div 1. Unusual for a team to be relegated on 6 points.

Tyrone 8/11   Mayo 13/ 8   to be relegated ! Monaghan in the driving seat playing Meath !