The IRISH RUGBY thread

Started by Donnellys Hollow, October 27, 2009, 05:26:16 PM

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Walter Cronc

Quote from: highorlow on February 04, 2019, 10:06:52 AM
QuoteBoth points true. England's line speed was excellent. They did defend with 13 players across the field and only 2 at the back .

They were offside most of the time.

This will sound like sour grapes but the ref did everything he could to help England. When was the last time a crooked throw was given in the line out? Cost us 3 points before half time which was crucial. We won a box kick and no ruck got formed but he decides to give England the scrum as the "attacking" team. Try was clearly offside but even the TMO was in on the act. No harm to get a kick up the arse anyhow. Hype was getting too much.

Agree that Garces was brutal - numerous errors. However as stated we didn't deserve to win it.

seafoid

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/liam-toland-england-come-up-with-perfect-blueprint-to-defeat-ireland-1.3780715

Liam Toland: England come up with perfect blueprint to defeat Ireland
South Africa would have the wherewithal to replicate England's successful tactics
There's no good time to lose a match, but with so much interest in the Joe Schmidt bank losing games in this Six Nations is not a problem. But the manner in which it was lost is.
Last week I didn't reflect on the Eddie Jones' one-liners but his bottom line where an 80 per cent win ratio compared favourably versus Schmidt's 74 per cent win ratio. I also pinpointed the five second recycle Ireland needed to impose on the visitors at ruck time.
Well I counted every recycle from the moment Tuilagi caught England's first lineout right up to their first try. Every single one was less than two seconds.
Could Keith Earls et al have made a different defensive read as Jonny May touched down? Possibly, but the speed, power and variety with which England attacked Ireland in that opening two minutes pushed the Irish defensive systems to the absolute limit.
Which other teams are now out there waiting for their shot at the Irish, and can they mimic the English approach?
Rassie Erasmus is an extremely intelligent rugby man with a deep knowledge of Irish rugby and will be plotting for the strong possibility of an Irish–Springbok quarter-final at the World Cup.

The Boks are getting better all the time and, boy, do they like power. A new phrase crops up in professional sport every season, but after only 15 minutes sitting in the stands up popped the tackle stats on my monitor – 'dominated tackles'. It wasn't accompanied with a definition but one assumes it's the ball carrier being dominated whilst being tackled.
Ireland's famed (and predictable) one out carrier was being hit (smashed) well behind the gain line. When they stole a few yards they were chopped down by the Vunipolas et al with a serious need to resource and simply protect the Irish carrier and ball. Ireland had to flood in just to keep up. And after 15 minutes England had 13 dominated tackles to Ireland's zero. It got worse.
•   Mako Vunipola: England state of mind as key as physical dominance
•   Chastened Ireland emphatically put back in their box
•   John Cooney gets to realise a dream on a nightmare evening
Tadhg Furlong's progress is halted by the combined tackles from England's Mark Wilson and Maro Itoje during the Six Nations clash at the Aviva Stadium. Photograph: Billy Stickland/Inpho

For all those reasons we needed Sean O'Brien, Tadhg Beirne, Iain Henderson and Rhys Ruddock more than ever before. Of the starting second and back row players there was only one go forward carrier in James Ryan. Horses for courses, alright, but facing such power and a rapid recycle time was our enemy; an inability to slow it all down.
In this environment individuals lacking game time looked decidedly uncomfortable. Passing became sluggish and inaccurate, field positioning became muddled and boy did England come with a plan.

Monster tackler

When Courtney Lawes smashed Garry Ringrose late in the game, I finally accepted that England have been working on their systems so much that a player of Lawes' physical make up could make the intelligent defensive read as tried to get outside the smothering English defence.
Lawes made a quality read and Ringrose felt all the weight of a monster tackler. The result was penalty to England and a corner stone play from Ireland had been nullified by a second row.
Violent aggression requires tip-top timing and when it is slightly out players get badly injured – Earls will testify to this
Other systems England brought to the game included an extremely clever 'escort' of the Conor Murray box kick. Never before have I seen a system to manage the space between the arriving Irish player and the intended English recipient. Most teams will have a lazy runner filling the space but England went much further in setting a traffic jam, which was entirely legal, which made it almost impossible for Ireland to engage in a contest.
Another one of Ireland's major tactics nullified. Plan B?

England went further with a phenomenal aerial display from Jonny May, a wonderful kicking game exposing Ireland's systems and the back three. Jones and his backroom team may giggle at 'boring Ireland' but the volume of kicking Ben Youngs undertook was miles ahead of Conor Murray. The difference? Youngs' kicking wasn't always accurate, but it kept Ireland pinned back and vulnerable to his side's aggressive defence.
Ireland fullback Robbie Henshaw competes for the ball with England's Jonny May during the Six Nations match at the Aviva stadium. Photograph: Dan Mullan/Getty Images

A word on aggression.

Violent aggression requires tip-top timing and when it is slightly out players get badly injured – Earls will testify to this. There are less obvious ones, such as Tuilagi's shoulder entry into an Irish breakdown.
So yet another English tactic came into play – the grubber kick finding space and forcing Ireland to turn
Why is this important? Because it's instructive when it comes to who can mimic England? Along with a superior systems sheet England, like New Zealand before them in 2016, brought a fair degree of controlled aggression that oft times spilled over. Both times we lost. Other teams will mimic this approach and we require a system to not just cope but prosper.

A foothold
Then for some reason, Tom Curry's sin bin, the English pace fell drastically. For a long period England looked almost rudderless, shifting over and back without anything like the pace they opened with. With the game slowing Ireland gained a foothold, their defence reloaded quicker and came off the line to frustrate England.

So yet another English tactic came into play – the grubber kick finding space and forcing Ireland to turn. One such grubber came from nothing and resulted in England's second try.
How will Schmidt and his leaders reflect on last Saturday? It's horses for courses as every Six Nations match brings with it entirely different challenges. Scotland are totally different.
In Saturday's pressure environment having only eight scrums showed extraordinary skills from both teams, but one crucial Irish lineout malfunctioned and under English pressure the go-to Ireland plays were shut down.
There's obviously no need to panic, but it was a poor start for Ireland and the manner of it will encourage our real competition down the line. Scotland are worthy opponents but South Africa remain a huge threat.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Rudi

Didn't think the 3rd try was offside. Definitely a forward pass. Pity 3 second rows are injured. Beirne is a huge loss.

Bord na Mona man

Surprisingly losing to England doesn't greatly bother me for a couple of reasons.

1 – The Hype. It was already getting way out of hand after the Autumn NZ win. As a sample, some of the recent musings of Neil Francis and Brian O'Driscoll were embarrassing. The sort of hubris that hasn't been seen in D4 land since the peak of the Celtic Tiger, roysh. Imagine if Ireland won the 6 Nations and there was a 6 month run in to the WC of non-stop, ever worsening bs. 
With so many players living here in a goldfish bowl, it's hard for them to avoid it.

2- Schmidt-ball unpicked – Chasing box kicks and bludgeoning up the middle came badly unstuck on Saturday. Better for it happen now that in a QF against South Africa. As mentioned by a few people, Ireland were utterly predictable for most of it and only started to use chips and grubbers after half time. Surely the world player of the year can see that the opposition are completely banking on Ireland are playing one way and mix it up. At least make them guess and second guess.
It quickly become obvious that the targets for aerial treatment, Nowell and May were well able to cope. Even if they were struggling, England made sure to have a swarm of supporting players in the drop zone.

What happened to territorial kicking also? I was listening to Matt Williams during the week and he predicted that England would kick deep into Ireland territory because Ireland's style dictates that they don't enjoy bringing the ball back from deep. On a day where handling errors were common for players collecting the ball in retreat, Ireland rarely looked to put England in reverse. 


seafoid

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on February 04, 2019, 11:42:19 AM
Surprisingly losing to England doesn't greatly bother me for a couple of reasons.

1 – The Hype. It was already getting way out of hand after the Autumn NZ win. As a sample, some of the recent musings of Neil Francis and Brian O'Driscoll were embarrassing. The sort of hubris that hasn't been seen in D4 land since the peak of the Celtic Tiger, roysh. Imagine if Ireland won the 6 Nations and there was a 6 month run in to the WC of non-stop, ever worsening bs. 
With so many players living here in a goldfish bowl, it's hard for them to avoid it.

2- Schmidt-ball unpicked – Chasing box kicks and bludgeoning up the middle came badly unstuck on Saturday. Better for it happen now that in a QF against South Africa. As mentioned by a few people, Ireland were utterly predictable for most of it and only started to use chips and grubbers after half time. Surely the world player of the year can see that the opposition are completely banking on Ireland are playing one way and mix it up. At least make them guess and second guess.
It quickly become obvious that the targets for aerial treatment, Nowell and May were well able to cope. Even if they were struggling, England made sure to have a swarm of supporting players in the drop zone.

What happened to territorial kicking also? I was listening to Matt Williams during the week and he predicted that England would kick deep into Ireland territory because Ireland's style dictates that they don't enjoy bringing the ball back from deep. On a day where handling errors were common for players collecting the ball in retreat, Ireland rarely looked to put England in reverse.

No harm losing as long as you learn from the loss
Back to back slams are very hard as well

I hope England do it and go to the World Cup with the favourites tag.
Jones obviously did a lot of work with the team. Schmidt has to do the same in time for Japan
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

spuds

Between      https://youtu.be/JpMe-oWzICQ

& Paddy Power adds you have to laugh  ;D.

"As I get older I notice the years less and the seasons more."
John Hubbard

Taylor

Outcoached and outplayed.

How many times did Sexton kick from open play?

seafoid

"Every team needs a few tinkers"  - Sylvester Linnane

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/gordon-d-arcy-ireland-will-need-a-plan-c-to-get-to-a-world-cup-semi-final-1.3783360

"The damage Keith Earls sustained from illegal Tom Curry and Maro Itoje hits meant Robbie Henshaw's first start at fullback in three years was handicapped by an injured winger struggling to cover ground. In the second half there were two young men either side of him."
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

seafoid

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/rob-kearney-set-to-be-among-four-ireland-changes-for-murrayfield-1.3784383?mode=amp


Rob Kearney is set to be recalled to the Irish starting XV for Saturday's must-win Six Nations match against Scotland in Murrayfield when the team is announced at lunchtime on Thursday.

The ripple effect of Garry Ringrose's hamstring injury is likely to see Robbie Henshaw revert to outside centre, a more familiar position for him in latter years, after the experiment of playing him at fullback for only a second time at Test level in last Saturday's opening 32-20 defeat at home by England.

With Devin Toner (ankle) and CJ Stander (facial injury) also ruled out, Quinn Roux and Jack Conan are expected to be named in their place – which would mean a full Six Nations debut for Roux and a second start in the Championship for Conan, who played in the win at home against Italy last season.

Further beefing up the pack, the likelihood is that Seán O'Brien will also be restored at openside in place of Josh van der Flier in a fourth change to the starting XV.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

screenexile

Jesus Neil Francis is a complete ass clown!!

dec

Ireland team v Scotland: R Kearney; K Earls, C Farrell, B Aki, J Stockdale; J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, R Best (capt), T Furlong; Q Roux, J Ryan; P O'Mahony, S O'Brien, J Conan.

Replacements: S Cronin, D Kilcoyne, A Porter, U Dillane, J Van der Flier, J Cooney, J Carbery, J Larmour.

Sportacus

For some reason Joe wouldn't admit it at the press conference, but I reckon he dropped Henshaw.  He spoofed away instead about a dead leg.  Strange one as he's not afraid to be ruthless.  Making Scotland out to be top class as well. They are indeed a good team, but Joe was definitely working the press.

screenexile

I don't think he did drop Henshaw he would definitely be ahead of Farrell in the centre!!

johnnycool

Quote from: screenexile on February 07, 2019, 04:36:54 PM
I don't think he did drop Henshaw he would definitely be ahead of Farrell in the centre!!

I can see where Sportacus is coming from but it would be a bit extreme to fake an injury to Henshaw to attempt to save face in getting Kearney back in as fullback. That would make its way into the public sphere in time if true.

Henshaw may well be injured and playing him at fullback the previous day out wasn't that successful but serious questions need asked of Sexton, Murray and Best as all three were well below par. If they are as poor and one dimensional again tomorrow I can the Scots beating us.


Tony Baloney

Quote from: johnnycool on February 08, 2019, 11:36:24 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 07, 2019, 04:36:54 PM
I don’t think he did drop Henshaw he would definitely be ahead of Farrell in the centre!!

I can see where Sportacus is coming from but it would be a bit extreme to fake an injury to Henshaw to attempt to save face in getting Kearney back in as fullback. That would make its way into the public sphere in time if true.

Henshaw may well be injured and playing him at fullback the previous day out wasn't that successful but serious questions need asked of Sexton, Murray and Best as all three were well below par. If they are as poor and one dimensional again tomorrow I can the Scots beating us.


Best has been blowing hot and cold for a while now. The miles on the clock are starting to show and when you're bolloxed you're not going to have many straight throws into a lineout. Scotland are no pushovers but hopefully the Irish lads have been sufficiently stung from the English match to give them a bit of a battering.