The Late Late show

Started by T O Hare, January 30, 2009, 01:50:33 PM

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Hardy

 
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 13, 2010, 12:17:03 PM
Typical smug arrogant reply from someone with no good counter-argument.

I'll take that as a capitulation, though in the usual graceless, over-the-ball-and-get-the-man provo fashion.

Fair enough Sandino, but I've never subscribed to the notion that only Northerners are entitled to comment on the Troubles. My opinion is as valid as yours. There's no point in debating if you always win because of where you live. If you have a problem with something I've said, tell me what's wrong or untrue about it. And I don't think I implied young people weren't entitled to opinions. If I did, I didn't mean to.

Zapatista

Quote from: Sandino on February 13, 2010, 12:34:10 PM
This was shown be the crowd last night. Where do people gain souch knowledge, from RTE or the BBC.

The round of applause tuffers got last night reminded me of Q&A a few years back. They were talking about British torture of Iraqi prisoners (the pictures printed by the mirror which turned out to be false). Mary Lou McDonald said she wasn't surprised as they have a history even in Ireland in recent times. Some Gobshite politicans (can't remeber which one but think it was FG for some reason) lashed into her saying it was an absolute disgrace that she should make such comparisons (the comparison being torture of prisoners in Ireland with torture of prisoners in Iraq). He got a round of applause for it. I couldn't believe it. For some reason torture was accepted in Ireland by the Irish but not acceptable in iraq by the Irish. Right then I knew the Irish would never hold the British to account for their actions inc Dublin and Monaghan. Even more disturbing they will defend them.

Nally Stand

I'd just point out that i'm of an age where i've lived through plenty of what went on in the north of our country. I'm not someone who's too young to make an informed judgement. All I would ask Hardy is would he be so critical of republicanism had it been his door getting repeatedly broken through by laughing RUC and british troops who proceeded to smash furniture up, insult and threaten those inside and then move on nextdoor? This is how I and many others grew up.
"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore

Hardy

So the Late Late Show audience = "the Irish"?

Hardy

Quote from: Nally Stand on February 13, 2010, 12:55:36 PM
I'd just point out that i'm of an age where i've lived through plenty of what went on in the north of our country. I'm not someone who's too young to make an informed judgement. All I would ask Hardy is would he be so critical of republicanism had it been his door getting repeatedly broken through by laughing RUC and british troops who proceeded to smash furniture up, insult and threaten those inside and then move on nextdoor? This is how I and many others grew up.

I have no idea. How can I answer that? Do you think that trumps anything I have to say? I'd probably have taken a shovel or something to the nearest cop or soldier and got shot.

But what has all that got to do with murdering women and pensioners in Enniskillen?

Zapatista

Quote from: Hardy on February 13, 2010, 12:56:19 PM
So the Late Late Show audience = "the Irish"?

Don't pretend you don't know what I mean.

Nally Stand

Nothing, it's in response to your claim to have the same authority to speak about it as those in the north which is simply absurd. Enniskillen was one tragic event. Why damn the entire organisation based on this wrong and forget that the IRA grew out of the same justifiable anger that you say would have driven you to attack brits with a shovel.
"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore

Hardy

Quote from: Zapatista on February 13, 2010, 01:03:02 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 13, 2010, 12:56:19 PM
So the Late Late Show audience = "the Irish"?

Don't pretend you don't know what I mean.

You might consider saying what you mean, then and I might have some chance. You seem to be drawing a conclusion about the attitude of the Irish people from that of a Late Late show audience. I can't see any other meaning in your post. If I'm wrong, maybe you'd clarify.

Hardy

Quote from: Nally Stand on February 13, 2010, 01:03:16 PM
Nothing, it's in response to your claim to have the same authority to speak about it as those in the north which is simply absurd. Enniskillen was one tragic event. Why damn the entire organisation based on this wrong and forget that the IRA grew out of the same justifiable anger that you say would have driven you to attack brits with a shovel.

So there we have it. You are right because of your address and I am wrong a priori, whatever my argument. No point in continuing.

Right or wrong, I can't leave without saying I see no equivalence between taking a shovel to defend your family and the cowardly murder of women and pensioners. Bye.

Zapatista

The fact that that was the question you asked resulting from my post re abuse of prisoners says it all frankly.

Nally Stand

Another point. When loyalists murdered people in their beds, witnesses often reported that they often broke in and walked straight to the bedrooms of their victims, knowing the house's layout. In these cases, the RUC/brits had raided the houses weeks before and openly sketched the layout of rooms. I recall living in fear after seeing them sketch my home. We were lucky but others weren't. Don't try tell me those in the south are equally qualified to talk about what those in the north went through.
"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore

Hardy

Sorry, Zapatista. You'll have to try again. I have no idea what you're talking about. My question is about the assumption of equivalence between the Late Late show audience and the Irish people. Why are you ignoring it?

It's a juvenile, cowardly tactic to try and twist my question into a suggestion that I condone the torture of prisoners. I assume you'll be man enough to retract that.

Once again, in case it's not clear: are you saying you can gauge the mood of the Irish people by the applause on the Late Late Show?

Nally Stand

P.s. Don't run away. I challenged you to consider for a second that the IRA's campaign was not daily "Enniskillens" but was essentially aimed at military targets. To call the IRA campaign a "murder campaign of women and children" is pathetic anti republican propaganda and rhetoric that Willy Frazer would be proud of.
"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore

Hardy

Quote from: Nally Stand on February 13, 2010, 01:12:42 PM
Another point. When loyalists murdered people in their beds, witnesses often reported that they often broke in and walked straight to the bedrooms of their victims, knowing the house's layout. In these cases, the RUC/brits had raided the houses weeks before and openly sketched the layout of rooms. I recall living in fear after seeing them sketch my home. We were lucky but others weren't. Don't try tell me those in the south are equally qualified to talk about what those in the north went through.

Sure I've already conceded that only Northerners may henceforth speak of the Troubles. You live there, you are therefore the fount of knowledge. Excuse me while I slink away, continuing to marvel at my own ignorance in being unable to understand the leap of logic that should take me from fear and loathing of the RUC and Brit army to letting off a bomb in a gathering of families and murdering and maiming them wholesale. The sad thing is I can never hope for enlightenment, having had the misfortune to be born in the wrong place. Still, I can console myself that that's preferable to dying because you happen to be in the wrong place when a crowd of psychopaths are on the lose with bombs.

Zapatista

Quote from: Hardy on February 13, 2010, 01:14:32 PM
Sorry, Zapatista. You'll have to try again. I have no idea what you're talking about. My question is about the assumption of equivalence between the Late Late show audience and the Irish people. Why are you ignoring it?

It's a juvenile, cowardly tactic to try and twist my question into a suggestion that I condone the torture of prisoners. I assume you'll be man enough to retract that.

Once again, in case it's not clear: are you saying you can gauge the mood of the Irish people by the applause on the Late Late Show?

I did not accuse you of condoneing torture i highlighted you avoided the subject over the subject you addressed.

I gauge the mood of the Irish people through my experience with them which fell in line with the audience of the late late show. The late late was an example I used to highlight (and it highlighted it to me) the issue rather than us examples I picked up from friends in the pub of the same point of view.