26 County General Election 2020

Started by Snapchap, January 09, 2020, 06:52:51 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

What will be makeup of the next government?

FF/SD/Lab/Green
FG/SD/Lab/Green
FG/FF
FF/Green
FG/Independents
FG/Independents
FG/Green
FF/SF
FF/Green/Independents
FF Minority
FG Minority
FG/SF
FF/Lab/Green
FF/Lab
FF/Lab/Green/Independents

trileacman

Quote from: Itchy on February 04, 2020, 09:39:20 PM
Leaving an 85 year old man with chronic heart disease on a trolley in a corridor in A&E for 24 hrs as happened to my wife's uncle last week is 3rd world like in my opinion. Hasn't improved one iota in the lifetime of this government

Given that the sub-saharan life expectancy is 61.2 I'd say your proffering an opinion that's plainly wrong.

The health service/state has done a good job of getting your uncle in law to the age of 85 especially considering that he has a major chronic illness. No being disrespectful but it's 85 year olds with chronic illness least in need of urgent care. The health service prioritises, as it should, younger patients with more serious and acute conditions where medical intervention can have the greatest effect.

Whilst it may seem inhumane that the elderly should have to wait in trolleys it's a simple fact that there's very little that hospitals can do for them, they're at the limit of what is medically possible especially those with chronic disease.

I think it was Hardy who said "people in the Western world suffer from Joe Duffyitis, that is, the belief no money should be spent on anything else but the health service until people stop dying".
Fantasy Rugby World Cup Champion 2011,
Fantasy 6 Nations Champion 2014

armaghniac

Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2020, 10:58:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 04, 2020, 10:54:35 PM
So SF will sort the pension crisis and people living longer by having the birthrate rise!! This from the party promoting abortion.

Would you trust the two parties who created the pension crisis to sort it?

The two parties did not create the pensions crisis, except by improving the health service so that people live longer or perhaps by legalising contraception and reducing the birthrate.
The government should only provide a pension for 20 odd years, if life expectancy increases then the pension age should go up. If people want to retire earlier they can save more and retire themselves.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Itchy

Quote from: trileacman on February 04, 2020, 11:18:03 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 04, 2020, 09:39:20 PM
Leaving an 85 year old man with chronic heart disease on a trolley in a corridor in A&E for 24 hrs as happened to my wife's uncle last week is 3rd world like in my opinion. Hasn't improved one iota in the lifetime of this government

Given that the sub-saharan life expectancy is 61.2 I'd say your proffering an opinion that's plainly wrong.

The health service/state has done a good job of getting your uncle in law to the age of 85 especially considering that he has a major chronic illness. No being disrespectful but it's 85 year olds with chronic illness least in need of urgent care. The health service prioritises, as it should, younger patients with more serious and acute conditions where medical intervention can have the greatest effect.

Whilst it may seem inhumane that the elderly should have to wait in trolleys it's a simple fact that there's very little that hospitals can do for them, they're at the limit of what is medically possible especially those with chronic disease.

I think it was Hardy who said "people in the Western world suffer from Joe Duffyitis, that is, the belief no money should be spent on anything else but the health service until people stop dying".

Thanks,
I'll pass that on and tell him hes lucky to be alive and should suck it up when younger people are seen to first. Sure he will be dead soon anyway.

Angelo

Quote from: armaghniac on February 04, 2020, 11:24:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2020, 10:58:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 04, 2020, 10:54:35 PM
So SF will sort the pension crisis and people living longer by having the birthrate rise!! This from the party promoting abortion.

Would you trust the two parties who created the pension crisis to sort it?

The two parties did not create the pensions crisis, except by improving the health service so that people live longer or perhaps by legalising contraception and reducing the birthrate.
The government should only provide a pension for 20 odd years, if life expectancy increases then the pension age should go up. If people want to retire earlier they can save more and retire themselves.

Eh. Of course they created it. Did you think it happened magically?

Now, to answer the question again, do you think the two parties who created the pension crisis are the ones to solve it?
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

Angelo

#499
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2020, 11:31:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 04, 2020, 11:24:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2020, 10:58:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 04, 2020, 10:54:35 PM
So SF will sort the pension crisis and people living longer by having the birthrate rise!! This from the party promoting abortion.

Would you trust the two parties who created the pension crisis to sort it?

The two parties did not create the pensions crisis, except by improving the health service so that people live longer or perhaps by legalising contraception and reducing the birthrate.
The government should only provide a pension for 20 odd years, if life expectancy increases then the pension age should go up. If people want to retire earlier they can save more and retire themselves.



Eh. Of course they created it. Did you think it happened magically? Why does it exist?

Now, to ask the question again, do you think the two parties who created the pension crisis are the ones to solve it?
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

trileacman

Quote from: Itchy on February 04, 2020, 11:28:55 PM
Quote from: trileacman on February 04, 2020, 11:18:03 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 04, 2020, 09:39:20 PM
Leaving an 85 year old man with chronic heart disease on a trolley in a corridor in A&E for 24 hrs as happened to my wife's uncle last week is 3rd world like in my opinion. Hasn't improved one iota in the lifetime of this government

Given that the sub-saharan life expectancy is 61.2 I'd say your proffering an opinion that's plainly wrong.

The health service/state has done a good job of getting your uncle in law to the age of 85 especially considering that he has a major chronic illness. No being disrespectful but it's 85 year olds with chronic illness least in need of urgent care. The health service prioritises, as it should, younger patients with more serious and acute conditions where medical intervention can have the greatest effect.

Whilst it may seem inhumane that the elderly should have to wait in trolleys it's a simple fact that there's very little that hospitals can do for them, they're at the limit of what is medically possible especially those with chronic disease.

I think it was Hardy who said "people in the Western world suffer from Joe Duffyitis, that is, the belief no money should be spent on anything else but the health service until people stop dying".

Thanks,
I'll pass that on and tell him hes lucky to be alive and should suck it up when younger people are seen to first. Sure he will be dead soon anyway.

Quote from: Itchy on February 04, 2020, 09:01:40 PM
Read what I wrote again,  slowly
Fantasy Rugby World Cup Champion 2011,
Fantasy 6 Nations Champion 2014

armaghniac

Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2020, 11:31:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 04, 2020, 11:24:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2020, 10:58:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 04, 2020, 10:54:35 PM
So SF will sort the pension crisis and people living longer by having the birthrate rise!! This from the party promoting abortion.

Would you trust the two parties who created the pension crisis to sort it?

The two parties did not create the pensions crisis, except by improving the health service so that people live longer or perhaps by legalising contraception and reducing the birthrate.
The government should only provide a pension for 20 odd years, if life expectancy increases then the pension age should go up. If people want to retire earlier they can save more and retire themselves.

Eh. Of course they created it. Did you think it happened magically?

Now, to answer the question again, do you think the two parties who created the pension crisis are the ones to solve it?

They already have a plan to deal with funding pensions, which has been agreed for years. FG failed to properly regulate private companies laying people off at 65, but that can be changed.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Main Street

Quote from: armaghniac on February 04, 2020, 09:32:53 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 04, 2020, 04:54:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 04, 2020, 12:42:44 PM
Especially as we'll all be living in €65,000 houses, will have no tax to pay, everything will be free.......
Why didnt someone think of all this before?
Who said 1977?

Lad, what slightly irritates me is this snobbery around SF's lack of financial know how. I mean when you consider the mess the country is in today, homelessness, a childrens hospital out of control and hospital services that are almost 3rd world (to name a few) brought to you by the financial experts in FF and FG. Who are they or their supporters to throw stones. They have royally fucked the country. For christ sake FF ran it to bankruptcy and had the IMF in and their leader was a minister in that government!

People need to keep a sense of proportion. The economy has grown by a quarter in the last Dáil term and there were a quarter of a million more  jobs. Almost any other country in the developed world would have given their left arm to have that. Hospital services have shortcomings, but talk of their being third world is bollix.
I think there should be a change of government, as spending control was not competent, but you have to look at this as they are, not some myth.




yellowcard

Said it beforehand but SF would have been better served if Mary Lou has been excluded from the debate tonight. The main winners tonight were the parties who weren't there. Same tired rhetoric from FF and FG and some of SF policies don't really stand up under scrutiny. It was always likely that RTE would bring up a bogeyman from the past in terms of the Paul Quinn death and whilst they do have skeletons as a party, Mary Lou does get a hard time from the media in comparison to others who were actually involved in some of the atrocities. For a party still in a semi transition phase, it could take a few more terms before they become electable.

Angelo

#504
Quote from: armaghniac on February 04, 2020, 11:40:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2020, 11:31:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 04, 2020, 11:24:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2020, 10:58:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 04, 2020, 10:54:35 PM
So SF will sort the pension crisis and people living longer by having the birthrate rise!! This from the party promoting abortion.

Would you trust the two parties who created the pension crisis to sort it?

The two parties did not create the pensions crisis, except by improving the health service so that people live longer or perhaps by legalising contraception and reducing the birthrate.
The government should only provide a pension for 20 odd years, if life expectancy increases then the pension age should go up. If people want to retire earlier they can save more and retire themselves.

Eh. Of course they created it. Did you think it happened magically?

Now, to answer the question again, do you think the two parties who created the pension crisis are the ones to solve it?

They already have a plan to deal with funding pensions, which has been agreed for years. FG failed to properly regulate private companies laying people off at 65, but that can be changed.

You said FF and FG didn't create the pension crisis. There's no getting around the fact they did create it, I'm asking you if you trust the two parties who created a pension crisis to solve it?

GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

Rossfan

How exactly did FF and FG "create the pension crisis"?
By not legalising Euthanasia?
By not making Euthanasia compulsory?

Jases Angelo you're shinnerbotism at its worst ::)
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Angelo

#506
Quote from: Rossfan on February 05, 2020, 01:14:32 AM
How exactly did FF and FG "create the pension crisis"?
By not legalising Euthanasia?
By not making Euthanasia compulsory?

Jases Angelo you're shinnerbotism at its worst ::)

Well first of all, I'd like to draw attention to the idiocy of this post.

You seem to be alluding to the fact that the pension crisis was a magical creation that happened out of thin air? The contradiction here is that you are ashamed to admit your FF/FG allegiance, yet you are one of their most ardent apologists here, consistently out here defending the indefensible for them.

The pensions crisis arose from gross mismanagement by both FF/FG. You obviously seem to be under the delusion that government makes no policy on pension contributions and entitlements, that government takes no role in fiscal management and that government and that government takes no responsibility for forward planning and contingencies when it comes to meeting those entitlements. A government in your eyes does not take any accountability for the gross incompetence and abuse of power that FF/FG have had throughout their control on the state.

The real roots of the pension issue are the bloated public sector pensions that the two establishment parties introduced and failed to address before it was too late and a pension crisis ensued.

Wink wink, nudge nudge politics that FF and FG engage in is the type of government that will bring you from one scandal into the next and I guess they're chuffed to know they'll still have a few village idiots like yourself to put a tick beside them in the ballot box.

The fact you're spouting on about euthanasia shows the level of intelligence of your average FF/FG hick.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

Tubberman

Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2020, 08:54:51 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 05, 2020, 01:14:32 AM
How exactly did FF and FG "create the pension crisis"?
By not legalising Euthanasia?
By not making Euthanasia compulsory?

Jases Angelo you're shinnerbotism at its worst ::)

Well first of all, I'd like to draw attention to the idiocy of this post.

You seem to be alluding to the fact that the pension crisis was a magical creation that happened out of thin air? The contradiction here is that you are ashamed to admit your FF/FG allegiance, yet you are one of their most ardent apologists here, consistently out here defending the indefensible for them.

The pensions crisis arose from gross mismanagement by both FF/FG. You obviously seem to be under the delusion that government makes no policy on pension contributions and entitlements, that government takes no role in fiscal management and that government and that government takes no responsibility for forward planning and contingencies when it comes to meeting those entitlements. A government in your eyes does not take any accountability for the gross incompetence and abuse of power that FF/FG have had throughout their control on the state.

The real roots of the pension issue are the bloated public sector pensions that the two establishment parties introduced and failed to address before it was too late and a pension crisis ensued.

Wink wink, nudge nudge politics that FF and FG engage in is the type of government that will bring you from one scandal into the next and I guess they're chuffed to know they'll still have a few village idiots like yourself to put a tick beside them in the ballot box.

The fact you're spouting on about euthanasia shows the level of intelligence of your average FF/FG hick.

It's a global issue largely related to demographic changes i.e. people living longer and having fewer children, therefore more pensioners with less working people to support them.
It is not an Irish or FF/FG specific issue.
The SF "solution" that "demographics will look after it" is laughable! The demographic changes are what has caused the problem! Mary-Lou reckons having SF in office will mean we'll suddenly revert to having 5 kids per household.
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."

Hound

Quote from: Itchy on February 04, 2020, 09:01:40 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on February 04, 2020, 08:01:33 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 04, 2020, 04:54:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 04, 2020, 12:42:44 PM
Especially as we'll all be living in €65,000 houses, will have no tax to pay, everything will be free.......
Why didnt someone think of all this before?
Who said 1977?

Lad, what slightly irritates me is this snobbery around SF's lack of financial know how. I mean when you consider the mess the country is in today, homelessness, a childrens hospital out of control and hospital services that are almost 3rd world (to name a few) brought to you by the financial experts in FF and FG. Who are they or their supporters to throw stones. They have royally fucked the country. For christ sake FF ran it to bankruptcy and had the IMF in and their leader was a minister in that government!

You've never been to a 3rd world if you think the health service, level of homelessness and what is being spent on a children's hospital are 3rd world.

Read what I wrote again,  slowly
Health service will only get worse under SF, because they will damage the economy. Anti-European, anti-business, anti-entrepreneur = anti-jobs.
We've full employment, tax takes are booming. Tax rates are extremely low for the low paid and progressive (high) for the well paid. Minimum wage is second highest in Europe.
Health service is a long way short, but Slaintecare is the best plan we've had. Throwing money at it on it's own won't work, but finally we've a thought-out plan that should improve things considerably.

Angelo

Quote from: Tubberman on February 05, 2020, 09:05:41 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2020, 08:54:51 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 05, 2020, 01:14:32 AM
How exactly did FF and FG "create the pension crisis"?
By not legalising Euthanasia?
By not making Euthanasia compulsory?

Jases Angelo you're shinnerbotism at its worst ::)

Well first of all, I'd like to draw attention to the idiocy of this post.

You seem to be alluding to the fact that the pension crisis was a magical creation that happened out of thin air? The contradiction here is that you are ashamed to admit your FF/FG allegiance, yet you are one of their most ardent apologists here, consistently out here defending the indefensible for them.

The pensions crisis arose from gross mismanagement by both FF/FG. You obviously seem to be under the delusion that government makes no policy on pension contributions and entitlements, that government takes no role in fiscal management and that government and that government takes no responsibility for forward planning and contingencies when it comes to meeting those entitlements. A government in your eyes does not take any accountability for the gross incompetence and abuse of power that FF/FG have had throughout their control on the state.

The real roots of the pension issue are the bloated public sector pensions that the two establishment parties introduced and failed to address before it was too late and a pension crisis ensued.

Wink wink, nudge nudge politics that FF and FG engage in is the type of government that will bring you from one scandal into the next and I guess they're chuffed to know they'll still have a few village idiots like yourself to put a tick beside them in the ballot box.

The fact you're spouting on about euthanasia shows the level of intelligence of your average FF/FG hick.

It's a global issue largely related to demographic changes i.e. people living longer and having fewer children, therefore more pensioners with less working people to support them.
It is not an Irish or FF/FG specific issue.
The SF "solution" that "demographics will look after it" is laughable! The demographic changes are what has caused the problem! Mary-Lou reckons having SF in office will mean we'll suddenly revert to having 5 kids per household.

That's not true though, it's a bloated public service pension that is a crux of the matter and neither FF or FG took any steps to tackle the system until it was too late.

The old scheme, which applies to those hired before 2013, offers those on full 40-year service a pension equal to 50 per cent of final salary, index linked to future public pay increases and with a tax-free lump sum of 1½ times annual salary on retirement.

So someone on around €66,000 with full service would get a tax-free lump sum of around €100,000 on departure, and then a generous pension entitlement. This has generally been an unfunded pay-as-you scheme, though some groups, including teachers, have paid contributions. It is, on any calculation, an extraordinary perk.


First, a new scheme was created, the so-called single scheme, which pared back the entitlements for those joining after January 1st, 2013. Pensions for newer entrants are based on career average earnings, and are index-linked based on inflation rather than tied to public sector wage rises.

Second, a pension-related deduction was introduced for public servants as one of the crisis measures, and this was subsequently transformed – in slightly less onerous form – into an ongoing additional contribution to their pension (the so-called ACS).

This has left pre-2013 public servants with a sweet deal despite the fact they are paying a bit more. The civil service pension scheme website, for example, calculates that to buy the benefits available to a higher executive officer on retirement would require someone in the private sector to have a pension pot of €690,000, while for a principal officer the sum rises to €1.34 million.


Those public sector pension levels are obscene compared to the rest of Europe.



GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL