26 County General Election 2020

[five points]

The options in this thread are depressing, and echo the media spin. Why does the government have to involve one of FFG? If you take the 'left' as SF, Greens, Labour, SD, PBP,  I4C and Solidarity, thats a higher poll than FFG. Heaven forbid that a leftist coalition be considered or debated.

Debate away but, barring a major SF breakthrough, they're unlikely to have 40 seats between them. We are where we are.

[macdanger2]

The options in this thread are depressing, and echo the media spin. Why does the government have to involve one of FFG? If you take the 'left' as SF, Greens, Labour, SD, PBP,  I4C and Solidarity, thats a higher poll than FFG. Heaven forbid that a leftist coalition be considered or debated.

That coalition only had 41 seats by the end of the last Dáil. 80 is needed for a majority. FF & FG currently have 92 between them and there's ~20 independents so FF / FG combined tally would need to fall to ~60 to make such a coalition viable. There'd need to be a pre-election left voting pact to make any real inroads there

[mouview]

The options in this thread are depressing, and echo the media spin. Why does the government have to involve one of FFG? If you take the 'left' as SF, Greens, Labour, SD, PBP,  I4C and Solidarity, thats a higher poll than FFG. Heaven forbid that a leftist coalition be considered or debated.

Feck the left. Nothing to offer. Bad and all as Brexit/BoJo in the UK was, the electorate still chose them over Labour.

[Rossfan]

Dont think SF has issued a manifesto* yet but their candidate in Roscommon(most of)/Galway says they'll hire 2,500 Nurses/midwives, open 1,500 new beds, hire an additional 1,000 doctors/consultants and provide 12 million extra home help hours over 5 years.
That would be lovely but she didn't mention how it will be paid for or who will pay for it, especially as they are against the USC and Property tax.

* As no party will form a Government on their own those things are meaningless shiny booklets.

[Lar Naparka]

Way to approach this is by making planning consents conditional on 20% affordable housing.

Absolutely not, this is the kind of wrong thinking that has country the way it is.
If you have this kind of 20% condition then you are putting the cost of that housing on the other 80% who are people not much different than the lucky few who get the affordable housing.

If public housing is desireable then every taxpayer should contribute to it, not just those buying their first house who are less well able to fund it.

While I understand that view, in the case of cities like Dublin you need the artists, the wait staff, those who provide various services, to be able to live there otherwise you force on them a poor quality of life and the city loses too. I think if we can build more rental high rises (and sales), it's for the better of society if you allocate a certain percentage to low income and means test the applications. I think rent freeze is a terrible and populist idea by Sinn Fein and instead what should be done is a certain amount of rent stabilised apartments like they do in New York. As I said in previous posts we need to partner better with good property developers to solve this. Ged rid of obsession with owning. Put the bitteen of money in some index funds and you will get a far better return instead of the Mammy Philosophy of you need to own a home.

well said, people are obsessed with getting a mortgage. all that does is make you a slave to the bank for 30 years, liable for all the bills, maintenance, upkeep, etc. After that time you will be lucky to break even with all the interest paid, but you still need somewhere to live. Pay rent monthly and grow your money smartly in other areas, pay into your pension etc. Plus if you rent you can move anywhere quickly if you want to for work, family etc. A house/ apt is a noose that strangles young people and makes solicitors, estate agents and property funds rich.

Based on personal experience, I disagree completely.
I bought a modest enough 3 bed semi in Dublin 5 back in 1991. It cost 30,000 punts and was just about at the top end of my budget. However, being in Dublin 5, it was centrally located and I knew it would prove a worthwhile investment. It was ideal as a small family unit with plenty of space front and back and kids could run around without imposing on neighbours to any great extent.
It was an average house in an average residential area but today the asking price for houses in this part of Dublin is between €450,000 and €500,000 and the likelihood is that prices will keep rising.
I own the house, lock, stock and barrel. (Whatever that means!)
We had a temporary glitch in the increase of house prices during the last recession but the trend is inexorably upwards. Prices are rising again. With the debatable exception of gold, I don't know of any other commodity that can increase in value as quickly.
If I had opted for rented accommodation back in '91, I'd still be paying rent, dead money, to some third party. I don't think one needs a degree in rocket science to figure that the rental costs since then would far exceed the amount of mortgage repayments I paid over 20 years. My mortgage repayments ended after 20 years whereas rental payments last for as long as I would be a resident in a rented property.
By any metric you care to mention, home ownership trumps rented accommodation.

30 years ago this was a very different market, it is only one example, are you telling me that if i bought your house now for 450k, in 30 years it will be worth 7 million, complete nonsense. There are many stories of people getting lucky in the market, that's all it is, luck. The majority now are being sucked in by the banks to a lifetime of debt, the sad thing is that we do this willingly.

True, we had a different market back in '91 but my case was not an isolated instance. It was pretty much the norm and, in any event, the comparison then and now is perfectly valid.
The money one pays over the lifetime of a mortgage will represent money well spent when compared to a lifetime paying rent to make somebody else rich.
You don't appear to grasp that there is a double whammy involved when you pay rent vs owning your own home. In general terms, the price of property keeps rising and so does the rent- at least in keeping with inflation. The tenant doesn't benefit in either event but the landlord has the best of both worlds. I may have paid a mortgage but I had the steady increase in assets to balance this.
Today, I have €500.000 in reserve and my home is mine to live in or dispose of as I set fit.
If I rented living accommodation I would have neither now.
In any event, if my house should ever be worth 7 million, what do you think the rent for something similar would be or do you think rental prices exist in a time warp?

[weareros]

The options in this thread are depressing, and echo the media spin. Why does the government have to involve one of FFG? If you take the 'left' as SF, Greens, Labour, SD, PBP,  I4C and Solidarity, thats a higher poll than FFG. Heaven forbid that a leftist coalition be considered or debated.

Why don't the left show leadership, and go to the country with a joint manifesto? How many of those parties want to be in government. When FG and Labour got a shellacking from the electorate in last election - who showed leadership and tried to form an alternative government? Instead they let FG form a minority gov and complained at FF for keeping them in power... without ever facing the fact that no one tried to form an alternative and put the country before party. The problem with a lot of those parties is that they are the political equivalent of "howld me back lads before I kill the bollocks."

[Lar Naparka]

The options in this thread are depressing, and echo the media spin. Why does the government have to involve one of FFG? If you take the 'left' as SF, Greens, Labour, SD, PBP,  I4C and Solidarity, thats a higher poll than FFG. Heaven forbid that a leftist coalition be considered or debated.

Why don't the left show leadership, and go to the country with a joint manifesto? How many of those parties want to be in government. When FG and Labour got a shellacking from the electorate in last election - who showed leadership and tried to form an alternative government? Instead they let FG form a minority gov and complained at FF for keeping them in power... without ever facing the fact that no one tried to form an alternative and put the country before party. The problem with a lot of those parties is that they are the political equivalent of "howld me back lads before I kill the bollocks."

Extremely well put!
We  don't have a left here. At least a left that have evolved practical strategies and that lives in the real world. In common or garden English, I cannot ever recall a manifesto from any leftie party that was taken seriously by the business world.

[macdanger2]

The options in this thread are depressing, and echo the media spin. Why does the government have to involve one of FFG? If you take the 'left' as SF, Greens, Labour, SD, PBP,  I4C and Solidarity, thats a higher poll than FFG. Heaven forbid that a leftist coalition be considered or debated.

Why don't the left show leadership, and go to the country with a joint manifesto? How many of those parties want to be in government. When FG and Labour got a shellacking from the electorate in last election - who showed leadership and tried to form an alternative government? Instead they let FG form a minority gov and complained at FF for keeping them in power... without ever facing the fact that no one tried to form an alternative and put the country before party. The problem with a lot of those parties is that they are the political equivalent of "howld me back lads before I kill the bollocks."

Tbf, they didn't have the numbers to go into govt. SF were ruled out by both FG and FF

I think the left needs to give the country a proposal for a non-FG/FF govt pre-election if they are ever to stand a chance of breaking the traditional setup.

[five points]

I think the left needs to give the country a proposal for a non-FG/FF govt pre-election if they are ever to stand a chance of breaking the traditional setup.

They have no interest in doing that. They prefer to split into a lot of small parties, each claiming separate party funding allowances from the State. The political equivalent of the farmers' dole.

[magpie seanie]

The options in this thread are depressing, and echo the media spin. Why does the government have to involve one of FFG? If you take the 'left' as SF, Greens, Labour, SD, PBP,  I4C and Solidarity, thats a higher poll than FFG. Heaven forbid that a leftist coalition be considered or debated.

Why don't the left show leadership, and go to the country with a joint manifesto? How many of those parties want to be in government. When FG and Labour got a shellacking from the electorate in last election - who showed leadership and tried to form an alternative government? Instead they let FG form a minority gov and complained at FF for keeping them in power... without ever facing the fact that no one tried to form an alternative and put the country before party. The problem with a lot of those parties is that they are the political equivalent of "howld me back lads before I kill the bollocks."

Extremely well put!
We  don't have a left here. At least a left that have evolved practical strategies and that lives in the real world. In common or garden English, I cannot ever recall a manifesto from any leftie party that was taken seriously by the business world.

Clearly confirming our country is run for the business world. Exactly.

[Angelo]

Dont think SF has issued a manifesto* yet but their candidate in Roscommon(most of)/Galway says they'll hire 2,500 Nurses/midwives, open 1,500 new beds, hire an additional 1,000 doctors/consultants and provide 12 million extra home help hours over 5 years.
That would be lovely but she didn't mention how it will be paid for or who will pay for it, especially as they are against the USC and Property tax.

* As no party will form a Government on their own those things are meaningless shiny booklets.

You seem to have a bit of tunnel vision here, FF/FG promise the sun, moon and stars and have a proven track record in not only failing to deliver on those promises but plunging the state into crisis after crisis with their policies and decision making. It's beyond bizarre to have a bee in your bonnet about SF not delivering when the establishment parties never have and have actually reneged on many of their election promises.

[Baile Brigín 2]

The options in this thread are depressing, and echo the media spin. Why does the government have to involve one of FFG? If you take the 'left' as SF, Greens, Labour, SD, PBP,  I4C and Solidarity, thats a higher poll than FFG. Heaven forbid that a leftist coalition be considered or debated.

Why don't the left show leadership, and go to the country with a joint manifesto?

Where is FFG's joint manifesto?

[Rossfan]

Another glossy but of fiction?
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/six-key-policy-areas-in-fine-gaels-election-manifesto-38892247.html

Wonder they didn't start a few of those things while they were in power 

[Baile Brigín 2]

Dont think SF has issued a manifesto* yet but their candidate in Roscommon(most of)/Galway says they'll hire 2,500 Nurses/midwives, open 1,500 new beds, hire an additional 1,000 doctors/consultants and provide 12 million extra home help hours over 5 years.
That would be lovely but she didn't mention how it will be paid for or who will pay for it, especially as they are against the USC and Property tax.

* As no party will form a Government on their own those things are meaningless shiny booklets.

You seem to have a bit of tunnel vision here, FF/FG promise the sun, moon and stars and have a proven track record in not only failing to deliver on those promises but plunging the state into crisis after crisis with their policies and decision making. It's beyond bizarre to have a bee in your bonnet about SF not delivering when the establishment parties never have and have actually reneged on many of their election promises.

And tbe outrage when I suggest there is a plan b

[armaghniac]

The whole thing has turned into an auction, free money for this, free money for that. Zero interest in fixing the source of the problems. Did we learn nothing from the past?