Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football

Started by APM, October 02, 2018, 04:43:21 PM

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tippabu

Quote from: BennyCake on January 14, 2019, 11:53:51 PM
Gaelic Life this week.

Cavan man suggests trialling no fisting backwards.

Could work.

What you think?

No, too hard to enforce on marginal calls and some of the best plays are small pop handpasses back to a forward or halfback coming at full pace onto the ball and driving through the defence

Rossfan

Seeing as we think Refs can't count handpasses and already have proved they can't count steps let's make it easy for them.
Allow unlimited running with the ball, allow straightforward throwing with no limits.
Sure we'd have great craic.
All you'd need then is an oval ball and allow Joe Sheridan "goals".
Then the Ref could become simply a score keeper and the Ulster crowd would get their wish to have kicking eradicated from the game.

Better put one of these in for some :D
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

blewuporstuffed

Quote from: Rossfan on January 15, 2019, 09:56:46 AM
Seeing as we think Refs can't count handpasses and already have proved they can't count steps let's make it easy for them.
Allow unlimited running with the ball, allow straightforward throwing with no limits.
Sure we'd have great craic.
All you'd need then is an oval ball and allow Joe Sheridan "goals".
Then the Ref could become simply a score keeper and the Ulster crowd would get their wish to have kicking eradicated from the game.

Better put one of these in for some :D

What is this rambling?
I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either

blewuporstuffed

Quote from: BennyCake on January 14, 2019, 11:53:51 PM
Gaelic Life this week.

Cavan man suggests trialling no fisting backwards.

Could work.

What you think?

would that encourage you to kick the ball long?
Up to a man, that if he wins it, can't pop it back to a supporting player?
I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either

tippabu

Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 15, 2019, 10:00:55 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 15, 2019, 09:56:46 AM
Seeing as we think Refs can't count handpasses and already have proved they can't count steps let's make it easy for them.
Allow unlimited running with the ball, allow straightforward throwing with no limits.
Sure we'd have great craic.
All you'd need then is an oval ball and allow Joe Sheridan "goals".
Then the Ref could become simply a score keeper and the Ulster crowd would get their wish to have kicking eradicated from the game.

Better put one of these in for some :D

What is this rambling?

Himself, who I always had time for, seems to be completely dazzled by the headlines of less handpasses and completely ignores the fine print of all of the awful knock on effects that this rule has. It doesn't seem to matter if the game is 10 times worse, as long as we limit the use of handpasssing that is the only thing that matters

Rossfan

Jasus I'd expect a Tipp man to have some sense of humour :-\
Just light hearted comments on one of the reasons mentioned  for opposing the handpass -that Refs can't count to 3.

Didn't see many negatives for the trial rules in the Hyde last Sunday -except for Hughes getting a few marks as our defence watched on.
But then it was the purer football as practised in Connacht to start with.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Hound

Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 15, 2019, 10:02:18 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 14, 2019, 11:53:51 PM
Gaelic Life this week.

Cavan man suggests trialling no fisting backwards.

Could work.

What you think?

would that encourage you to kick the ball long?
Up to a man, that if he wins it, can't pop it back to a supporting player?
I thought about the no backwards handpasses too and I don't think it's a bad idea.
Would have to be an exception if you're inside your opponents 21

Although as for many of the proposed changes, got to consider if you're punishing the attacking team rather than the defending team. The main reason a team has multiple backpasses going nowhere is because the opposition won't come out and tackle.

bigpackiechestout

Quote from: Hound on January 15, 2019, 12:25:58 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 15, 2019, 10:02:18 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 14, 2019, 11:53:51 PM
Gaelic Life this week.

Cavan man suggests trialling no fisting backwards.

Could work.

What you think?

would that encourage you to kick the ball long?
Up to a man, that if he wins it, can't pop it back to a supporting player?
I thought about the no backwards handpasses too and I don't think it's a bad idea.
Would have to be an exception if you're inside your opponents 21

Although as for many of the proposed changes, got to consider if you're punishing the attacking team rather than the defending team. The main reason a team has multiple backpasses going nowhere is because the opposition won't come out and tackle.

This is it in a nutshell. Similar to the way sports the world over are played when there is a mismatch, ie. see Manchester City playing some of the cannon fodder in the Premier League. Except in these sports it is accepted that not every game is going to be a free flowing shoot out.

That being said, I do think there is an inbalance at the moment towards defensive teams however I think a small tweak like outlawing the backpass to the keeper will significantly help. Again it will not eradicate defensive football and nor should this be it's intention. However it will encourage teams to press up on the opposition as the team in possession does not have the easy out of passing to the unmarked keeper, thus leaving more room at the opposite end of the pitch.

This rule would be at the expense of roaming keepers like Rory Beggan but IMO it is a sacrifice worth making, or at least trialing.

We need to be very wary of making overly prescriptive changes without properly considering the full consequences. IMO this was the issue with the black card, it is now the issue with the handpass restriction and it would also be the case with some other proposed changes such as Brolly's idea to ban the sweeper. We've got to remember that the game should be as free flowing as possible and not have the feel of a training game with artificial rules

trailer

Quote from: bigpackiechestout on January 15, 2019, 01:48:22 PM
Quote from: Hound on January 15, 2019, 12:25:58 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 15, 2019, 10:02:18 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 14, 2019, 11:53:51 PM
Gaelic Life this week.

Cavan man suggests trialling no fisting backwards.

Could work.

What you think?

would that encourage you to kick the ball long?
Up to a man, that if he wins it, can't pop it back to a supporting player?
I thought about the no backwards handpasses too and I don't think it's a bad idea.
Would have to be an exception if you're inside your opponents 21

Although as for many of the proposed changes, got to consider if you're punishing the attacking team rather than the defending team. The main reason a team has multiple backpasses going nowhere is because the opposition won't come out and tackle.

This is it in a nutshell. Similar to the way sports the world over are played when there is a mismatch, ie. see Manchester City playing some of the cannon fodder in the Premier League. Except in these sports it is accepted that not every game is going to be a free flowing shoot out.

That being said, I do think there is an inbalance at the moment towards defensive teams however I think a small tweak like outlawing the backpass to the keeper will significantly help. Again it will not eradicate defensive football and nor should this be it's intention. However it will encourage teams to press up on the opposition as the team in possession does not have the easy out of passing to the unmarked keeper, thus leaving more room at the opposite end of the pitch.

This rule would be at the expense of roaming keepers like Rory Beggan but IMO it is a sacrifice worth making, or at least trialing.

We need to be very wary of making overly prescriptive changes without properly considering the full consequences. IMO this was the issue with the black card, it is now the issue with the handpass restriction and it would also be the case with some other proposed changes such as Brolly's idea to ban the sweeper. We've got to remember that the game should be as free flowing as possible and not have the feel of a training game with artificial rules

Good to see the penny drop. Fix the fixtures, tier the competitions and you'll see a better standard of games. Div 3 and 4 teams shouldn't be allowed to compete for Sam. They're not good enough.
More evenly matched teams will equal better games. Rule changes only play to the mob of unintelligent, bandwagon supporters.


bigpackiechestout

Quote from: trailer on January 15, 2019, 04:49:47 PM
Quote from: bigpackiechestout on January 15, 2019, 01:48:22 PM
Quote from: Hound on January 15, 2019, 12:25:58 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 15, 2019, 10:02:18 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 14, 2019, 11:53:51 PM
Gaelic Life this week.

Cavan man suggests trialling no fisting backwards.

Could work.

What you think?

would that encourage you to kick the ball long?
Up to a man, that if he wins it, can't pop it back to a supporting player?
I thought about the no backwards handpasses too and I don't think it's a bad idea.
Would have to be an exception if you're inside your opponents 21

Although as for many of the proposed changes, got to consider if you're punishing the attacking team rather than the defending team. The main reason a team has multiple backpasses going nowhere is because the opposition won't come out and tackle.

This is it in a nutshell. Similar to the way sports the world over are played when there is a mismatch, ie. see Manchester City playing some of the cannon fodder in the Premier League. Except in these sports it is accepted that not every game is going to be a free flowing shoot out.

That being said, I do think there is an inbalance at the moment towards defensive teams however I think a small tweak like outlawing the backpass to the keeper will significantly help. Again it will not eradicate defensive football and nor should this be it's intention. However it will encourage teams to press up on the opposition as the team in possession does not have the easy out of passing to the unmarked keeper, thus leaving more room at the opposite end of the pitch.

This rule would be at the expense of roaming keepers like Rory Beggan but IMO it is a sacrifice worth making, or at least trialing.

We need to be very wary of making overly prescriptive changes without properly considering the full consequences. IMO this was the issue with the black card, it is now the issue with the handpass restriction and it would also be the case with some other proposed changes such as Brolly's idea to ban the sweeper. We've got to remember that the game should be as free flowing as possible and not have the feel of a training game with artificial rules

Good to see the penny drop. Fix the fixtures, tier the competitions and you'll see a better standard of games. Div 3 and 4 teams shouldn't be allowed to compete for Sam. They're not good enough.
More evenly matched teams will equal better games. Rule changes only play to the mob of unintelligent, bandwagon supporters.

I would add to this, make the referees properly enforce the current rules (ie. 4 steps) and properly define the tackle,

BennyCake

Quote from: Hound on January 15, 2019, 12:25:58 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 15, 2019, 10:02:18 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 14, 2019, 11:53:51 PM
Gaelic Life this week.

Cavan man suggests trialling no fisting backwards.

Could work.

What you think?

would that encourage you to kick the ball long?
Up to a man, that if he wins it, can't pop it back to a supporting player?
I thought about the no backwards handpasses too and I don't think it's a bad idea.
Would have to be an exception if you're inside your opponents 21

Although as for many of the proposed changes, got to consider if you're punishing the attacking team rather than the defending team. The main reason a team has multiple backpasses going nowhere is because the opposition won't come out and tackle.

Without repeating myself, surely less players would negate that. More space, and even if teams use a blanket, there's still room available. Less players able to get back into a blanket might make managers realise, blankets are no good, let's just attack and score more than them

Every argument or proposal mentioned, there are ways around them or too hard to enforce. Less players is the way to go.

tippabu

Quote from: BennyCake on January 15, 2019, 06:18:37 PM
Quote from: Hound on January 15, 2019, 12:25:58 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 15, 2019, 10:02:18 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 14, 2019, 11:53:51 PM
Gaelic Life this week.

Cavan man suggests trialling no fisting backwards.

Could work.

What you think?

would that encourage you to kick the ball long?
Up to a man, that if he wins it, can't pop it back to a supporting player?
I thought about the no backwards handpasses too and I don't think it's a bad idea.
Would have to be an exception if you're inside your opponents 21

Although as for many of the proposed changes, got to consider if you're punishing the attacking team rather than the defending team. The main reason a team has multiple backpasses going nowhere is because the opposition won't come out and tackle.

Without repeating myself, surely less players would negate that. More space, and even if teams use a blanket, there's still room available. Less players able to get back into a blanket might make managers realise, blankets are no good, let's just attack and score more than them

Every argument or proposal mentioned, there are ways around them or too hard to enforce. Less players is the way to go.

I agree with you and have laid out the case for it a number of times here. I think its by far the best option to trial for a more open and exciting game while still not going too far down the side of being ultra attacking. Nearly every rule proposed here or officially i dont really like and find negatives in and ive put out my reasoning for these, im not just a naysayer who hates change.

thewobbler

Quote from: BennyCake on January 15, 2019, 06:18:37 PM
Quote from: Hound on January 15, 2019, 12:25:58 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 15, 2019, 10:02:18 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 14, 2019, 11:53:51 PM
Gaelic Life this week.

Cavan man suggests trialling no fisting backwards.

Could work.

What you think?

would that encourage you to kick the ball long?
Up to a man, that if he wins it, can't pop it back to a supporting player?
I thought about the no backwards handpasses too and I don't think it's a bad idea.
Would have to be an exception if you're inside your opponents 21

Although as for many of the proposed changes, got to consider if you're punishing the attacking team rather than the defending team. The main reason a team has multiple backpasses going nowhere is because the opposition won't come out and tackle.

Without repeating myself, surely less players would negate that. More space, and even if teams use a blanket, there's still room available. Less players able to get back into a blanket might make managers realise, blankets are no good, let's just attack and score more than them

Every argument or proposal mentioned, there are ways around them or too hard to enforce. Less players is the way to go.

Fewer players is absolutely the one rule change I would be against.

Gaelic football is already a game obsessed with fitness. The fitness levels required are an actual deterrent to player retention in anything below senior club level.

13 a side sees about a 15% increase in available room on a pitch. It would do nothing to improve footballing intelligence. It would do less again for the need for basic skills. It would mitigate the importance of physical strength. But anyone prepared to work night and day on their running ability would have a field day.

Meanwhile, across the country, intermediate, junior and b players quit the game because those who happily sign up to this culture have such an extraordinary advantage over those who will not. And while they are off to play soccer and rugby at those levels - where skill, strength and smarts are still valued - their home clubs struggle to field.

That's the final outcome of this idea folks. Football has to be enjoyable to play or people will quit. Be careful what you wish for.


tippabu

Quote from: Rossfan on January 15, 2019, 11:35:34 AM
Jasus I'd expect a Tipp man to have some sense of humour :-\
Just light hearted comments on one of the reasons mentioned  for opposing the handpass -that Refs can't count to 3.

Didn't see many negatives for the trial rules in the Hyde last Sunday -except for Hughes getting a few marks as our defence watched on.
But then it was the purer football as practised in Connacht to start with.

Always found you a decent poster and always found the other rossie (syfrus prob spelt wrong) to be the wind up one. not trying to have a pop at you, i have just noticed over the course of this thread you seem very adamant that handpassing it the major problem in gaa when i feel mass defences are the route cause and limiting handpassing only incentives it more. Alot of the responses have been you calling it "throwball" and i just feel you are dead set on this rule being a huge improvement despite 99% of people who have been involved or attended games would say the game is an awful lot worse for it. Anyway apologies if i offended you, its something i try to avoid on here

Zulu

Don't really see how going to 13 a side would make much of a difference. If you want to drop players back then the two players you lose would probably come from your forwards or one forward and one 'defender' that defends the 45m area.

The problem is we have seen how getting players back makes it more difficult to score. We have also now figured out how we can get them back and still transition pretty quickly when we turnover the opposition. We have now figured out that playing in front of the massed defence and probing is the most effective way of countering the massed defence. So unless we can figure out a way of preventing teams dropping players back and forcing opponents to play a probing kind of attack we are stuck with the pretty shit fare we get in many games.