The Many Faces of US Politics...

[heganboy]

"always" is a bit of a stretch for a country founded July 2nd 1776.
Yes it's July 2nd on purpose...

[Milltown Row2]

The United States government has always been the biggest terrorists in the planet if you're to go by civilian deaths.

6 million Jews at the hands of the nazis is going to be hard to beat I'd say

[seafoid]

The United States government has always been the biggest terrorists in the planet if you're to go by civilian deaths.

6 million Jews at the hands of the nazis is going to be hard to beat I'd say

Vietnam could be up to half a million including the effects of Agent Orange
Hiroshima and Nagasaki including the nuclear related cancers would be another half a million
The Genocide of the native Americans could be 2 million
Throw in the slaves for another half a million
Vet suicides are off the charts

You could probably get closer to 6 million by adding in Korea, Iraq etc 

[The Iceman]

The United States government has always been the biggest terrorists in the planet if you're to go by civilian deaths.

6 million Jews at the hands of the nazis is going to be hard to beat I'd say

Vietnam could be up to half a million including the effects of Agent Orange
Hiroshima and Nagasaki including the nuclear related cancers would be another half a million
The Genocide of the native Americans could be 2 million
Throw in the slaves for another half a million
Vet suicides are off the charts

You could probably get closer to 6 million by adding in Korea, Iraq etc

I love how we (europeans) so easily wash our hands of the genocide of the native americans...who do you think killed them?? No Irish involved.... oh no...

[stew]

The United States government has always been the biggest terrorists in the planet if you're to go by civilian deaths.

6 million Jews at the hands of the nazis is going to be hard to beat I'd say

Vietnam could be up to half a million including the effects of Agent Orange
Hiroshima and Nagasaki including the nuclear related cancers would be another half a million
The Genocide of the native Americans could be 2 million
Throw in the slaves for another half a million
Vet suicides are off the charts

You could probably get closer to 6 million by adding in Korea, Iraq etc

I love how we (europeans) so easily wash our hands of the genocide of the native americans...who do you think killed them?? No Irish involved.... oh no...

The yanks have done a lot of good in the world as well, dont forget that!

[armaghniac]

I love how we (europeans) so easily wash our hands of the genocide of the native americans...who do you think killed them?? No Irish involved.... oh no...

I liked the way the named Seattle after the chief of the local Indians who facilitated the original settlement and then a decade or two later they run all the indians, including the person after whom the city was named, out of town. Classy.

[J70]

The United States government has always been the biggest terrorists in the planet if you're to go by civilian deaths.

6 million Jews at the hands of the nazis is going to be hard to beat I'd say

Vietnam could be up to half a million including the effects of Agent Orange
Hiroshima and Nagasaki including the nuclear related cancers would be another half a million
The Genocide of the native Americans could be 2 million
Throw in the slaves for another half a million
Vet suicides are off the charts

You could probably get closer to 6 million by adding in Korea, Iraq etc

I love how we (europeans) so easily wash our hands of the genocide of the native americans...who do you think killed them?? No Irish involved.... oh no...

And why single out the use of the nukes? What lasting damage did the toxins released by firebombing German and Japanese cities cause, in addition to the hundreds of thousands killed directly? And if you include that aspect of how the Allies conducted the war, then what alternative was there in response to the Axis brutality?

[seafoid]

The United States government has always been the biggest terrorists in the planet if you're to go by civilian deaths.

6 million Jews at the hands of the nazis is going to be hard to beat I'd say

Vietnam could be up to half a million including the effects of Agent Orange
Hiroshima and Nagasaki including the nuclear related cancers would be another half a million
The Genocide of the native Americans could be 2 million
Throw in the slaves for another half a million
Vet suicides are off the charts

You could probably get closer to 6 million by adding in Korea, Iraq etc

I love how we (europeans) so easily wash our hands of the genocide of the native americans...who do you think killed them?? No Irish involved.... oh no...

And why single out the use of the nukes? What lasting damage did the toxins released by firebombing German and Japanese cities cause, in addition to the hundreds of thousands killed directly? And if you include that aspect of how the Allies conducted the war, then what alternative was there in response to the Axis brutality?

Fair point. The  war was insane imo. It was the death of the British Empire.
4.9 million Germans died for nothing.
Brutal wars always seem to happen at the end of an economic cycle controlled by the rich
We will be lucky to avoid one in the next decade

[seafoid]

Very interesting analysis.

I am pretty sure Trump will end up shafting his voters
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/328935-the-memo-has-trump-gone-washington

[The Iceman]

I love how we (europeans) so easily wash our hands of the genocide of the native americans...who do you think killed them?? No Irish involved.... oh no...

I liked the way the named Seattle after the chief of the local Indians who facilitated the original settlement and then a decade or two later they run all the indians, including the person after whom the city was named, out of town. Classy.

Mount Rainier, formerly known as Tacoma, now named after some British General, just because....
One of the interesting thing about Washington State that I enjoyed was learning about all the indigenous people and seeing their tribe names still alive and well in the names of many towns.  There are still many reservations there and on the small islands of the coast of WA.

Our countries all played a part in their slaughter. But we're quick to blame the yanks... the yanks are all europeans - just settled in a different country.

[omaghjoe]

I love how we (europeans) so easily wash our hands of the genocide of the native americans...who do you think killed them?? No Irish involved.... oh no...

I liked the way the named Seattle after the chief of the local Indians who facilitated the original settlement and then a decade or two later they run all the indians, including the person after whom the city was named, out of town. Classy.

Mount Rainier, formerly known as Tacoma, now named after some British General, just because....
One of the interesting thing about Washington State that I enjoyed was learning about all the indigenous people and seeing their tribe names still alive and well in the names of many towns.  There are still many reservations there and on the small islands of the coast of WA.

Our countries all played a part in their slaughter. But we're quick to blame the yanks... the yanks are all europeans - just settled in a different country.

Sure wasnt it their own fault for isolating their genepool away from diseases like smallpox etc

[Eamonnca1]

Sure wasnt it their own fault for isolating their genepool away from diseases like smallpox etc

I once saw a fascinating thing about how the isolation of the new world from the old was a massive ticking time-bomb as humans encircled the globe. By the time humanity got around to mass settling the Americas from the east, those who had settled from the west were doomed. Would have been interesting to see how history would have turned out if the native Americans had the stronger immune systems and the Europeans had the weaker ones.

[omaghjoe]

Sure wasnt it their own fault for isolating their genepool away from diseases like smallpox etc

I once saw a fascinating thing about how the isolation of the new world from the old was a massive ticking time-bomb as humans encircled the globe. By the time humanity got around to mass settling the Americas from the east, those who had settled from the west were doomed. Would have been interesting to see how history would have turned out if the native Americans had the stronger immune systems and the Europeans had the weaker ones.

There was a couple of things against them, I think both where down to the topography

The Old World was populated by humans spreading out from the Fertile Cresent along similar latitudes. You have the same or similar biomes the whole way from Spain to China and so the practices and technologies that were developed in one area could be used in the next. This meant more movement of people among the civilisations and as a result a more thoroughly mixed gene pool, more exposure to more diseases and as result weak genes weeded out and immune systems strengthened. It also meant that more ideas were shared and technology developed faster, resulting in larger populations and the need to expand further, it became a "virtuous circle" in terms of civilisation advancement.

The New World on the other hand was colonised from North to South, so as the movement of people moved into new areas to exploit resources they were frequently moving into a new biome due to the change in latitude. As a civilisation emerged its practices and technologies were suited to that biome and if they moved to the North or South the environment would change and their agricultural methods (for example) would be ineffective. This in turn meant there was less movement of people and communication with other areas, so there was less exposure to diseases, less ideas shared, and less exploitation  of the natural resources, slower population growth and less need to even develop.

So really the civilisations of the New World didnt stand a chance of surviving against an expanding Old World, they were less advanced in terms of their biology, technology, society etc. BTW I dont mean to condescending when I say less advanced, but its just a fact, not their fault as such, alot of the civilisations just did not have the need to expand because their populations had everything they needed to survive. The civilisations that did advance like the Maya were constrained by topography and lack of communication with other advanced civilisations.

Putting the blame on the shoulders of European settlers is silly, its just basic anthropology at work and happened numerous times in both the Old New World before on smaller scales. Besides most Californians these days look like they have a fair bit of "Indigenous New World" blood in them, so its not like the people disappear, their cultures tho for the most part unfortunately did.

[dec]

"The Old World was populated by humans spreading out from the Fertile Cresent along similar latitudes"

Did you ever read "Guns, Germs and Steel" it made similar points

[omaghjoe]

"The Old World was populated by humans spreading out from the Fertile Cresent along similar latitudes"

Did you ever read "Guns, Germs and Steel" it made similar points

Naw but its the prevailing theory these days. Tho steel or iron is actually an interesting one that may actually buck the trend of the conventional wisdom that technology advances within a civilisation a little bit. It is thought to have started in central Africa unattached to any majorly historical significant civilisation and spread out from there.