"you know who"
Brian Roper
Brian Dooher
Padraig Clancy
Was the Down game on TV tonight??
Yea they showed a few mins of it there on the Sunday game...highlighted the red card incident and they all agreed it was a legitimate shoulder with no intent and he should get his appeal!
that has to be the most ridiculous sending off ever ! it was like your goalie dida last year against celtic
When Ross Carr rather hastily and prematurely said that he had to go, is there much point in appealing. Surely Ross should have stood by his captain and at least waited to review the video evidence.
What exactly did Ross say?
There were a few hightlights on the Sunday Game.It mostly went through the Gordon/Clancy handbags
which may cost us dearly but hopefully common sense will prevail.Video evidence was good enough
to get Cole a month maybe it'll now be the opposite now and Dan will get off.
Quote from: downgirl on July 27, 2008, 11:46:34 PM
Yea they showed a few mins of it there on the Sunday game...highlighted the red card incident and they all agreed it was a legitimate shoulder with no intent and he should get his appeal!
It was nt a legitimate shoulder - the ball was nt even in play. What it was though was a disgraceful act by Clancy , feigning a contact to his face that did not happen. Ref was conned but even the best professional refs get conned in other sports. Why are top players behaving like this. Dooher made a meal of his issues as well. Do these players feel the Ref is not giving them enough protection in general and try to even things up when they get a chance? If this shite was happening in club/underage matches you would nt be able to run off competitions.
Two points on the Gordon / Clancy incident:
1: Clancy feigned injury big time, he went down like he had been shot.
2: It is evident from the video of the incident that Gordon did make an attempt to go in with the head, so the intent was there whether he made contact or not.
In the balance, a harsh sending off, but I've seen players get a red card for an awful lot less e.g. Diarmuid Marsden in the 2003 All Ireland Final.
Quote from: moysider on July 28, 2008, 12:58:02 AM
Quote from: downgirl on July 27, 2008, 11:46:34 PM
Yea they showed a few mins of it there on the Sunday game...highlighted the red card incident and they all agreed it was a legitimate shoulder with no intent and he should get his appeal!
It was nt a legitimate shoulder - the ball was nt even in play. What it was though was a disgraceful act by Clancy , feigning a contact to his face that did not happen. Ref was conned but even the best professional refs get conned in other sports. Why are top players behaving like this. Dooher made a meal of his issues as well. Do these players feel the Ref is not giving them enough protection in general and try to even things up when they get a chance? If this shite was happening in club/underage matches you would nt be able to run off competitions.
I didn't see the Gordon incident so won't comment but with regards to Dooher and your question above,
for obvious reasons he's a marked man to slow down or stop any chance a marker would get and from what i see they don't miss too many.
With that said, explain to me why Dooher didn't have every right to go down after being punched regardless of where he's struck,
A strike is a strike is it not ???
It's not like it doesn't happen up and down the length of the country but then that seems to get lost in the mist ::)
After our disagreement last night and this morning,I am in in full agreement with your last point Tyrones own.
Quote from: bigpaul on July 28, 2008, 02:05:49 AM
After our disagreement last night and this morning,I am in in full agreement with your last point Tyrones own.
I'll take that, it's a tough time of the year for us boy's to agree on very much ;)
I will always agree on obvious truths. 8)
Dont like gin ;D
Hopefully the weekend of the last Sunday in September ;D
Nice to see they highlighted the Roper (non)incident too. He went down like he has been shot, the only difference being that the ref waved play on and told him to get up. He tried a dive later in the game too and it didn't work that time either.
When are we going to tackle this play-acting poison in the game? If we can use video evidence to hang a lad for losing his temper, why can't we use it to punish severely these cowardly, cynical cheats who are doing the exact opposite and acting in a calculated, pre-meditated way to cheat their opponents and the rest of us?
Injury-feigning, face-clutching, exaggerated collapsing and other such nancy-boy histrionics are far worse offences against the spirit and purpose of sport than a slap thrown in anger, and even worse again than an accidental collision or a mistimed tackle. Yet every minor physical transgression is ruthlessly pursued while the cheats get away with it every time.
We have our priorities arseways.
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 28, 2008, 02:01:16 AM
Quote from: moysider on July 28, 2008, 12:58:02 AM
Quote from: downgirl on July 27, 2008, 11:46:34 PM
Yea they showed a few mins of it there on the Sunday game...highlighted the red card incident and they all agreed it was a legitimate shoulder with no intent and he should get his appeal!
It was nt a legitimate shoulder - the ball was nt even in play. What it was though was a disgraceful act by Clancy , feigning a contact to his face that did not happen. Ref was conned but even the best professional refs get conned in other sports. Why are top players behaving like this. Dooher made a meal of his issues as well. Do these players feel the Ref is not giving them enough protection in general and try to even things up when they get a chance? If this shite was happening in club/underage matches you would nt be able to run off competitions.
I didn't see the Gordon incident so won't comment but with regards to Dooher and your question above,
for obvious reasons he's a marked man to slow down or stop any chance a marker would get and from what i see they don't miss too many.
With that said, explain to me why Dooher didn't have every right to go down after being punched regardless of where he's struck,
A strike is a strike is it not ???
It's not like it doesn't happen up and down the length of the country but then that seems to get lost in the mist ::)
Nonsense! Dooher lay down like a calf when there wasn't much wrong with him. Rumour from Tyrone training that he can hold 'the plank' for well over 10 mins so nobody's going to tell me that a crappy rabbit punch like the one he received would actually hurt him so much that he falls to the ground like he's ruptured his spleen. And as for "Have every right to go down"... what the hell does that mean? No of course you don't have any right to go down unless the blow you receive means that you must fall to the ground. If the ref saw it the Westmeath fella deserved to go but in my opinion Dooher tried to con the ref into thinking it was worrse than it was! I don't think the punch Dooher received was enough to warrant him going down as if his kidney exploded, for me the only reason he went down was to get the man sent off and in this case it is a cowardly act not in the spirit of the game! But then it is Tyrone so I wouldn't expect much else really!
..I take it Screenexile you were equally as outraged that Liam Hinephy went down like his 'kidney exploded' when Kevin Hughes tickled his ribs in the first round game in 2006. I believe Hinephy was down for long enough to see Hughes sent off and was then back on his feet again very quickly. Point is that if you stike off the ball you get the line. A slap like that with the ball in hand and the player goes on ahead, if it's off the ball why should the player try and save the fool that struck. The Dooher incident is not comparable to Rooper and Clancy who I'm sure will be quite embarrased to see those incidents again on TV
Three horrible incidents over the weekend, where players are trying to get opponents sent-off. Westmeath man deserved to go for his punch . Clancy should have a real look at himself, as should Roper. These 3 apart, it is becoming more and more common for players on every team to go down easy to get a cheap free.
As Tommy Lyons said last night, footballers need to get some integrity and have a look at where they are going with the game. Once again the Hurlers from yesterday are prime examples of how it should be done.
If footballers are going to continue to go down this route it is yet poison taking grip of the game.
Quote from: phpearse on July 28, 2008, 09:43:20 AM
..I take it Screenexile you were equally as outraged that Liam Hinephy went down like his 'kidney exploded' when Kevin Hughes tickled his ribs in the first round game in 2006. I believe Hinephy was down for long enough to see Hughes sent off and was then back on his feet again very quickly. Point is that if you stike off the ball you get the line. A slap like that with the ball in hand and the player goes on ahead, if it's off the ball why should the player try and save the fool that struck. The Dooher incident is not comparable to Rooper and Clancy who I'm sure will be quite embarrased to see those incidents again on TV
phpearse - pay no attention to Screenexiles comments RE Dooher. He permanently has the anti Tyrone hat on but then again now that his beloved Derry have sh#t in the nest (again) despite all his talk of how good they are/were I suppose he has little else to occupy his time ;D ;).
What do you want from me? Hinphey shouldn't have went down like he needed surgery that time? Of course he shouldn't it was basically the same thing and I'm not about to introduce any double standards and make up lies about it. Do you want me to go through the list of Tyrone's play actors? I could be here all day!!!
As for Derry shitting the nest it is also a true statement but I could honestly say that if we's played Tyrone on any day this year we would've beaten them... talk about your easy runs! I wouldn't be gloating too much about this season yet loughshore!!
Quote from: bingobus on July 28, 2008, 09:44:42 AM
Three horrible incidents over the weekend, where players are trying to get opponents sent-off. Westmeath man deserved to go for his punch but Dooher is due a proper slap that really will put him down. Clancy should have a real look at himself, as should Roper. These 3 apart, it is becoming more and more common for players on every team to go down easy to get a cheap free.
As Tommy Lyons said last night, footballers need to get some integrity and have a look at where they are going with the game. Once again the Hurlers from yesterday are prime examples of how it should be done.
If footballers are going to continue to go down this route it is yet poison taking grip of the game.
I must agree with a lot that Tommy lyons said last night, particularly the role of the GPA in all this. I think it is imperative that they come out clearly on this issue on the side of the Games and the integrity of the association itself. This nonsense has crept in over the last few years and there is no one county more guilty than another nor one club more guilty than another, but it is ruining the game.
I am not gloating about Tyrones season at all exile, it could easily be over this weekend or we could stretch it out a bit more. Most clued in Tyrone fans know we are not the team of old, to me the fact we are still there and have hopes of going further illustrates more about the lack of quality else where than the quality of our team. With respect to your original post about diving, play acting etc I agree its something that needs to stamped out of the game and also agree some Tyrone players including Dooher go down far too easy, however, its a widespread issue and every county inclding your own has a number of culprits.
regarding ropers shameful dive, I think he has already had his punishement...
he has cost his county side the game and progression to the next round by his actions
by diving like a soccer player, he coughed up the ball for an easy monaghan score , and as Donegal lost by a point - I would blame roper.
his team mates shouldnt be too happy with him either.
QuoteNonsense! Dooher lay down like a calf when there wasn't much wrong with him. Rumour from Tyrone training that he can hold 'the plank' for well over 10 mins so nobody's going to tell me that a crappy rabbit punch like the one he received would actually hurt him so much that he falls to the ground like he's ruptured his spleen. And as for "Have every right to go down"... what the hell does that mean? No of course you don't have any right to go down unless the blow you receive means that you must fall to the ground. If the ref saw it the Westmeath fella deserved to go but in my opinion Dooher tried to con the ref into thinking it was worrse than it was! I don't think the punch Dooher received was enough to warrant him going down as if his kidney exploded, for me the only reason he went down was to get the man sent off and in this case it is a cowardly act not in the spirit of the game! But then it is Tyrone so I wouldn't expect much else really!
It didn't look to be the hardest punch in the world but unless you are the one who took it then you wouldn't know how hard or effective it was. If someone strikes out at you then why would you not go down? Why should Dooher let tramps like that constantly beat the shit out of him throughout a match? He takes enough punishment and these players are obviously trying to grind away at him in order to have a detrimental effect on his performance. Dooher was only after getting wrestled to the ground and subsequently Harte tries to hit him – fair play to Dooher!!
I'm no fan of Tommy Lyons but he is 100% right on this. His call for the GPA to take a stance is right also but we all know they're only interested in cash so you won't be hearing from them. Clancy should be ashamed of himself for his actions yesterday. Maybe he was watching his team mate Tom Kelly too much. Dooher made a meal of the clip he got too which I don't like to see. Some might say he got the punch right on the solar plexus so even if it wasn't a haymaker it might have hurt (no matter how tough you are there are sensitive places to get a slap). I wouldn't be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt though. Roper's one looked awful bad - he was hardly touched.
Its widespread though and singling out these 3 lads might be a tad unfair. I wholeheartedly agree that every game should be reviewed on video and this cheating charged and suspended.
Surely the managers are encouraging this also?
If you's take the anti Tyrone glasses off first and then review that 03 final you'll see that Jordan clearly got struck on the head. I sitll dont think Marsden should have got sent off and Jordan was at fault for the incident but he did receive a blow to the head. Dooher did not dive on Saturday and was clearly struck on the stomach which at the best of times isnt nice, again if the anti Tyrone glasses are taken of you'll see Dooher does not deserved to be mentioned here.
Back to Dan Gordon's sending off,
does anybody know if there's any chance that it will be rescinded in time for the weekend's game.
Will the referee be invited to reconsider if the TV replay shows he was duped by Clancy?
Quote from: Tyrone Dreamer on July 28, 2008, 11:04:14 AM
If you's take the anti Tyrone glasses off first and then review that 03 final you'll see that Jordan clearly got struck on the head. I sitll dont think Marsden should have got sent off and Jordan was at fault for the incident but he did receive a blow to the head. Dooher did not dive on Saturday and was clearly struck on the stomach which at the best of times isnt nice, again if the anti Tyrone glasses are taken of you'll see Dooher does not deserved to be mentioned here.
Are there such things as anti tyrone contact lenses or do they only come in the form of glasses?
Wise up Tyrone Dreamer he went down like a sack of shit and he was hardly touched and the sad thing about it is Dooher is a good player and has no call to bring this shite into his game.
Quote from: stiff breeze on July 28, 2008, 11:11:32 AM
Are there such things as anti tyrone contact lenses or do they only come in the form of glasses?
They wouldn't be
contact lenses anyway. :)
Marsden reacted quickly to Jordan running at him by pushing/punching with closed fists, probably to protect himself. The umpire saw it & reported it to the ref and Marsden was dismissed. He can have no complaints as the rules do not allow you to raise your hands/fists etc. To say there was no contact is absurd.
The worst I have seen was Francie Bellew in 04 against Cavan. For a man who has put many opposing players in hospiital with his bone-breaking style of play, he dropped like a sack of spuds to get his man sent off before a ball was even kicked.
Every team has used the rule that you cant raise your hands to their advantage, so don't go coming over all pious cos you don't like Jordan.
Quote from: Keepthefaith93 on July 28, 2008, 11:12:24 AM
Wise up Tyrone Dreamer he went down like a sack of shit and he was hardly touched and the sad thing about it is Dooher is a good player and has no call to bring this shite into his game.
Hardly touched, He wasnt touched at all, Marsden ran up to him and he fell, f**k me Tyrone dreamer go home this evening and pull the match out and watch it agin, he got a man sent of in an All ireland final,
Quote from: Hardy on July 28, 2008, 11:13:33 AM
Quote from: stiff breeze on July 28, 2008, 11:11:32 AM
Are there such things as anti tyrone contact lenses or do they only come in the form of glasses?
They wouldn't be contact lenses anyway. :)
cant believe how slow I was to get this !! lol
Quote from: Over the Bar on July 28, 2008, 11:14:40 AM
Every team has used the rule that you cant raise your hands to their advantage, so don't go coming over all pious cos you don't like Jordan.
down have never used it, we are above that kind of thing
Quote from: tram on July 28, 2008, 11:18:45 AM
Jordan did make a meal of the incident in 2003, but he was struck in the face - watch the Irish News special DVD of the match before making any more comments.
Also its funny how "outraged" some Armagh supporters are about that incident yet never bring up the following year when Franice Bellew went down like a "sack of shit" to get a Cavan player sent of in the Ulster semi-final.
[
/quote]
Correct. Not to mention Aiden O'Rourke in the AISF 2005 when he went to ground and had a wee sly look over his shoulder to see if he had won a free. Highlighted by none other than Jarleth Burns. Paddy McKeever highlighted on the sunday game a few seasons back. Stephen Kernan against Galway at Cross in the league. Martin O'Rourke yesterday in the lead up to Tony Kernan's point in the first half. They are worse than Arsene Wenger.
QuoteHardly touched, He wasnt touched at all, Marsden ran up to him and he fell
If there was no contact can you explain why is appeal failed at stage 1?
This has gone totally off the point and turned into an Olympic Diving thread.
There is no team that can say they don't have any players who haven't dived. The bigger the match the bigger the consequences.
It is time to draw a line under it and get the house back in order.
Was talking to Rory Woods on his take on the Roper incident. ;)
Quote from: Over the Bar on July 28, 2008, 11:46:53 AM
QuoteHardly touched, He wasnt touched at all, Marsden ran up to him and he fell
If there was no contact can you explain why is appeal failed at stage 1?
The fact of the matter is, he appealed and he won his appeal coz he was innocent, and Jordan was guilty no matter what way you look at it,
There are very few teams if any that are innocent of this type of sh1te.
It is a blight on the game & if players can be done by video evidence after the game for striking etc then surely the fcuk a player can be done for diving/unsporting behaviour.
BTW, it is laughable that Tyrone people are pointing the finger at other counties. Tyrone would be the county that are the worst offenders at this.
If the ref saw it the Westmeath fella deserved to go but in my opinion Dooher tried to con the ref into thinking it was worrse than it was! I don't think the punch Dooher received was enough to warrant him going down as if his kidney exploded, for me the only reason he went down was to get the man sent off and in this case it is a cowardly act not in the spirit of the game! But then it is Tyrone so I wouldn't expect much else really! Screen exile.
and this all coming from the manc that yaps about entire towns and villages when he gets a bit of a slap on a Saturday night
Some of the posts on here mentioning Dooher are rediculous, whether it was a bad punch or not he had to go and I certainly thought it was a rough one. Too much interpretation in the GAA not enough black and white, a punch is a punch or as your only ever decent manager said when ye strake ye havta go!!! How dare anyone criticse a player for falling down when another player has assaulted him. I seen diving this weekend in the Laois game, the Armagh game, the Donegal game and I can tell you the only diving came from Glennon in the Tyrone game.
I would be more concerned with the guys who think its alright to throw sneaky punches on a footb all field these guys have no place in sport. Violence has been the scourge of the GAA since it started, its now hight time these guys were dealt with. If manliness is defined by throwing off the ball punches then we are not into it for the sport at all. My advice to any player this weekend would be hit the deck if a thug punches ye, because if not tthe referee will not deal with it.
If Brian hadn't gone to ground and got medical attention, would the outcome have been any different? Would the sending-off not have happened? In what way did the perceived over-exaggeration influence the ref, given that he saw the incident?
I'm not sure I've ever seen the ref go to a player and ask "well how injured are you? If you're ok, then I'll just ignore that illegal punch that was thrown at you". So the extent of the injury is not the point in question, it's the illegal act by the inflictor. Kinda makes the debate about Brian Dooher irrelevant.
Big Dan definately did not deserve to go, although I do not see his appeal being successful as he did make a head butting action and it may be seen as intentNot so sure Roper will be at it again as he cost his side the match
QuoteThe fact of the matter is, he appealed and he won his appeal coz he was innocent,
As one who likes to gloss over the facts you might wish to consider that if it were so open/shut the appeal would have succeeded at stage one. As I understand it his eventual appeal succeeded as it was accepted that he intended no malice but raised his fists in a natural reaction to Jordan rushing at him.
Quoteand Jordan was guilty no matter what way you look at it,
What an ridiculous statement. Are you a Sun reader by any chance?
What's your view on the Bellew incident when the Cavan player got send off by the way?
I must admit when I first saw the incident and I was far back in the stand I thought Maybe Jordan had dived. When I watched the rerun off it after the game I realised what a blind twat I had been hoe wrong I was, and was disgusted at the punch thrown, I was disgusted that Armagh would take this type of crap to an All Ireland final, but consoled myself in the fact that hell will freeze over before that Armagh team ever gets back to an All Ireland final. After yesterdays game I am 100% confident that Armagh will not disappoint me.
Was reading Ross Carr's quote on Clancy and the red card...something along the lines of "Thankfully after a drink of water Clancy was able to get back to his feet". ;D ;D
Quote from: nrico2006 on July 28, 2008, 10:19:41 AMIt didn't look to be the hardest punch in the world but unless you are the one who took it then you wouldn't know how hard or effective it was. If someone strikes out at you then why would you not go down? Why should Dooher let tramps like that constantly beat the shit out of him throughout a match? He takes enough punishment and these players are obviously trying to grind away at him in order to have a detrimental effect on his performance. Dooher was only after getting wrestled to the ground and subsequently Harte tries to be the coward and hit him on the sly – fair play to Dooher!!
Quote from: Rois on July 28, 2008, 12:07:44 PM
If Brian hadn't gone to ground and got medical attention, would the outcome have been any different? Would the sending-off not have happened? In what way did the perceived over-exaggeration influence the ref, given that he saw the incident?
I'm not sure I've ever seen the ref go to a player and ask "well how injured are you? If you're ok, then I'll just ignore that illegal punch that was thrown at you". So the extent of the injury is not the point in question, it's the illegal act by the inflictor. Kinda makes the debate about Brian Dooher irrelevant.
Folks if you're gonna try to justify people going down like that then we might as well pack up Gaelic Football and go and watch the Eircom League (or whatever its gonna be called next year) for the summer while the super duper premiership is on a break...
Quote from: feetofflames on July 28, 2008, 12:39:02 PM
I must admit when I first saw the incident and I was far back in the stand I thought Maybe Jordan had dived. When I watched the rerun off it after the game I realised what a blind t**t I had been hoe wrong I was, and was disgusted at the punch thrown, I was disgusted that Armagh would take this type of crap to an All Ireland final, but consoled myself in the fact that hell will freeze over before that Armagh team ever gets back to an All Ireland final. After yesterdays game I am 100% confident that Armagh will not disappoint me.
You're right, you are a t*t!! ;)
So Tyrone have Jordan and Dooher
Armagh have Francie and M O'Rourke
Derry have Hinphey
Donegal have wee Roper
plus big Clancy of Laois.
Any other counties want to name and shame :P
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on July 28, 2008, 01:33:47 PM
Quote from: Rois on July 28, 2008, 12:07:44 PM
If Brian hadn't gone to ground and got medical attention, would the outcome have been any different? Would the sending-off not have happened? In what way did the perceived over-exaggeration influence the ref, given that he saw the incident?
I'm not sure I've ever seen the ref go to a player and ask "well how injured are you? If you're ok, then I'll just ignore that illegal punch that was thrown at you". So the extent of the injury is not the point in question, it's the illegal act by the inflictor. Kinda makes the debate about Brian Dooher irrelevant.
Folks if you're gonna try to justify people going down like that then we might as well pack up Gaelic Football and go and watch the Eircom League (or whatever its gonna be called next year) for the summer while the super duper premiership is on a break...
Where's the attempt to "justify" in what I said? Whether Brian went down or not had no impact on the sending off as the ref saw the punch being thrown.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on July 28, 2008, 01:33:47 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on July 28, 2008, 10:19:41 AMIt didn't look to be the hardest punch in the world but unless you are the one who took it then you wouldn't know how hard or effective it was. If someone strikes out at you then why would you not go down? Why should Dooher let tramps like that constantly beat the shit out of him throughout a match? He takes enough punishment and these players are obviously trying to grind away at him in order to have a detrimental effect on his performance. Dooher was only after getting wrestled to the ground and subsequently Harte tries to be the coward and hit him on the sly – fair play to Dooher!!
Quote from: Rois on July 28, 2008, 12:07:44 PM
If Brian hadn't gone to ground and got medical attention, would the outcome have been any different? Would the sending-off not have happened? In what way did the perceived over-exaggeration influence the ref, given that he saw the incident?
I'm not sure I've ever seen the ref go to a player and ask "well how injured are you? If you're ok, then I'll just ignore that illegal punch that was thrown at you". So the extent of the injury is not the point in question, it's the illegal act by the inflictor. Kinda makes the debate about Brian Dooher irrelevant.
Folks if you're gonna try to justify people going down like that then we might as well pack up Gaelic Football and go and watch the Eircom League (or whatever its gonna be called next year) for the summer while the super duper premiership is on a break...
Croi, I don't think you can say for definite that Dooher went down easily, or dived. The fact is that Doran Harte stupidly, or in frustration, punched him in the stomach. I've got a few belts into the stomach, and they can easily put you down, especially when you're not expecting it. It's not as if Harte shouldered him and he went down holding his face.
We can all have our doubts, but I think it's unfair to assume he dived in that incident.
Gooch for Kerry
Jayo, Cluxton for Dublin
Dooher should have saved himself the hassle of getting off the ground after making a meal of Healy's challenge. Obviously Harte was stupid to lash out like that but i'd put money on it the couple of words he had with Dooher before he did lash out were in relation to the meal he had made of Healy's challenge. Unless the punch itself is strong enough to knock a player to the ground there's no reason to collapse to the ground like he did unless it's a conscious decision. Even if he was heavily winded (As Dermot Bannon was at one stage the far end of the pitch in the second half) falling to the ground is senseless. Harte was going to go regardless and Dooher just made a tit of himself.
QuoteWhat's your view on the Bellew incident when the Cavan player got send off by the way?
Still waitin on Onion Bag's response to this one..............
Or maybe it hurt? Look I don't condone diving in any shape or form, but I think it's harsh to assume he 'dived' on Saturday. Heals should know better than pulling a lad onto the ground, and he didn't complain too much, he knew himself. Harte was stupid to punch him, and he had to go.
I think you are being harsh on Dooher.
All I can say is good man big Clancy, Laois have showed a big lack of bottle over the years and have never won a senior All - Ireland. they never will if like Clancy continue to behave in this appalling manner. Down were dead and buried with a man down in the second half but rolled up thier sleeves and fought like winners, Down are in the next round and Clancy is not!!!
Its a shame for Laois because they have a great passionate support and in the likes of Tom Kelly some truly great players. They gave us a footballing lesson in Newcastle last year and deserve more than to see that kind of behaviour - by my reckoning the sending off of big Dan was Clancy's only input into the game and on top of this he got himself suspended for the previous game.
Rois, instead of addressing the issue you choose to deflect criticism by saying it had no bearing on the resultant red card. (Incidentally we don't know this, if he had kept his feet it may have looked like a shoulder into the chest). If we choose to turn a deaf ear (or a blind guy) it's only a matter of time before players will be blatently diving in the area and all the other histrionics we see all too often in that foreign game (as Tommy Lyons laughingly referred to it last night :D).
AZ, you're right, I can't say for definite that Dooher went down easily however I can make a fairly accurate educated guess. Like I said in the match thread, I didn't see the incident but from looking at him on the ground I presume he took a knock in the face. From viewing the replay it wasn't a wild swing with a lot of force behind it, it was a movement from the side of the body out, unless you've been working out with Shane Ryan you're not gonna have much force behind it to someone half a meter away. The minute Dooher got back to his feet he sprinted looking for the ball, anytime I've been winded there's zero chance of me sprinting immediately afterwards. Added to that there are reports on here that Dooher can hold the plank from 6 to 10 minutes, have only started with this myself recently but it certainly firms up the core and I'm nowhere near the 6 to 10 mins... So based on that I'm gonna put my neck on the line and say that IMO there is a 90% chance that Dooher dived in the incident...
I see in the Clancy and Roper incidents that the opposing teams came through so at least there was some justice done there...
Croi, I think you'll have to watch it again on d'Telly. it was a punch, and a punch into the breadbasket. Any punch into the stomach is liable to make you go down if you are not expecting it. He didn't just tickle his tummy or anything.
The fact that Dooher sprinted afterwards is neither here nor there, as he had a couple of minutes treatment as well, so he'd have recovered.
Look, I'd have my doubts too, but in this case he was clearly struck, and it's unfair to assume he dived, even if that's your suspicion.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on July 28, 2008, 02:16:22 PM
instead of addressing the issue you choose to deflect criticism by saying it had no bearing on the resultant red card. (Incidentally we don't know this, if he had kept his feet it may have looked like a shoulder into the chest). If we choose to turn a deaf ear (or a blind guy) it's only a matter of time before players will be blatently diving in the area and all the other histrionics we see all too often in that foreign game (as Tommy Lyons laughingly referred to it last night :D).
This is getting so boring now. Did you not see the highlights? The ref saw the closed fist, do you think it was because Brian went to ground that he gave a red card? Come on, catch a grip, it wouldn't have been fair if he'd escaped red, would it?
You say that justice was done in the Clancy and Roper incidents - implying that you believed there to have been an injustice in the Tyrone game - have I picked that up right, you think WM should have won?
Rois,what is your opinion on the Gordon/Clancy clash?
Didn't see it, can't comment.
Quote from: Rois on July 28, 2008, 02:41:48 PM
Didn't see it, can't comment.
Nobody did - cos nothing happened!
Has anyone seen this: http://pa.photoshelter.com/gallery-img-show?G_ID=G0000LMHn7PPSEgg&P_ID=&start=31&pagtotal=41
Pretty damning picture that Joe, even tho he may just have touched heads with no force behind it.
thats not the sending off offence, that is before when both gordon and nancy were head to head!
Don't be shit stirring that is not the incident in question, that was about a minute before the actual incident he got sent off for... the 2 of them were head to head and face to face so there was no backward movement from Gordon to constitute a headbutt. The Sunday game analysis clearly shows Gordon did not headbutt Clancy!
Oh and I am not a Down man by the way!
Its hard to say from the photo whether there's any actual touching of heads.
You can see that Clancy has grabbed Gordon inside his armpit - if somebodyr did that to you, your instinctive reaction would be to put your head down, which could look bad.
Quote from: Rois on July 28, 2008, 02:29:08 PMThis is getting so boring now. Did you not see the highlights?
Yes
Quote from: Rois on July 28, 2008, 02:29:08 PMThe ref saw the closed fist, do you think it was because Brian went to ground that he gave a red card?
Not really, IMO the ref saw Harte's hand coming out and Dooher going down, put 2 and 2 together and came up with 4. If Dooher had just bent over double or went down on one knee it would have been the same result. It is just the manner of the collapse that angered me.
Quote from: Rois on July 28, 2008, 02:29:08 PMCome on, catch a grip, it wouldn't have been fair if he'd escaped red, would it?
No, a strike is a strike, I don't think anyone here is saying otherwise.
Quote from: Rois on July 28, 2008, 02:29:08 PMYou say that justice was done in the Clancy and Roper incidents - implying that you believed there to have been an injustice in the Tyrone game - have I picked that up right, you think WM should have won?
Ah I was just delighted on a personal note for Clancy and Roper that their antics went unrewarded in terms of their team not winning...
p.s. Thanks for the directions last week (although I should have paid more attention to yours rather than Bensars). First left after the Folk Park was a narrow country lane that is obviously a ring road around the Folk Park as I turned right when I got to the end of it and passed what I thought was another Mellon Country Inn/Hotel. I couldn't figure out how they could run two hotels successfully in close proximity to each other and it wasn't till I reached Newtown that I realised what happened :D It would have been mainly the hardcore support that would have traveled up on Sat, didn't see many groups of kids or day outers, we're a fairly reserved bunch and reflective of the traveling Tyrone support that's been down in Mullingar for the last couple of league games...
Quoteunless you've been working out with Shane Ryan you're not gonna have much force behind it to someone half a meter away.
Croí na hÉireann - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_inch_punch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_inch_punch)
nrico2006 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You're_Still_Avoiding_The_Issue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You're_Still_Avoiding_The_Issue)
As mentioned previously the incident in the photo was dealth with by the ref. The sending off offence happened afterwards as we all seen on TV.
Onion-bag still avoiding the question on Francie Bellew........... ;D
Quote from: balladmaker on July 28, 2008, 01:06:32 AM
Two points on the Gordon / Clancy incident:
1: Clancy feigned injury big time, he went down like he had been shot.
2: It is evident from the video of the incident that Gordon did make an attempt to go in with the head, so the intent was there whether he made contact or not.
In the balance, a harsh sending off, but I've seen players get a red card for an awful lot less e.g. Diarmuid Marsden in the 2003 All Ireland Final.
That's why there's no point in appealing.
QuoteWith that said, explain to me why Dooher didn't have every right to go down after being punched regardless of where he's struck,
A player has a right to go only if he's injured enough that he needs to go down. I suppose only Brian Dooher knows whether this was the case after the punch he received. Yes Harte deserved the line whether or not Dooher went down but it is a relevant issue as a lack of player integrity is bad for the game. I'd agree with Seanie that Tommy Lyons made a good point last night with regards to the GPA but I wouldn't hold my breath on that issue.
What I find most embarrassing is the hits/belts the hurles can and do take time after time with a hurl and comfortably stay on their feet and compare it to watching the footballers a lot who are now falling over whenever possible and dragging the player down on top of them....
QuoteIts a shame for Laois because they have a great passionate support and in the likes of Tom Kelly some truly great players
Not unknown for him to hit the deck easy either though a class player alright.
Not sure if this has been posted already so apologies if it has, just seen this on BBC website:
Meanwhile Down are to appeal Dan Gordon's sending-off in the two-point win over Laois on Saturday.
Television evidence suggests the player was harshly treated.
How long will it take the appeal to go through??
No chance of being heard before next Sunday, but depending on what was stated in Refs.report a case could possibly be made that he be allowed to play pending appeal, there are precedents
Quote from: magpie seanie on July 28, 2008, 10:27:11 PM
QuoteIts a shame for Laois because they have a great passionate support and in the likes of Tom Kelly some truly great players
Not unknown for him to hit the deck easy either though a class player alright.
I think in Kelly's situation it's usually to win a free. At the risk of being burned for blasphemy, I think that crept into his game under the tutelage of Micko.
I can't think off hand of any dying swan theatrics to get lads sent off or anything..
Did he not get a lad sent off a few years ago? I think he did but can't remember who.
Maybe so, I can't remember. I know I've nearly lost my mind at him a few times going down to win frees, a bg strong man like him, but I honestly can't think of any face clutching agony moments.
Jaysus lads Gordon almost deserves the suspension for that photo of him on the BBC website alone.. ::)
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 29, 2008, 09:53:31 AM
Maybe so, I can't remember. I know I've nearly lost my mind at him a few times going down to win frees, a bg strong man like him, but I honestly can't think of any face clutching agony moments.
Wasnt it a Kildare lad in a Leinster Final - 2003 obviously- who caught his shoulder but he went down holding his face.???
He recovered after the Kildare chap got a red card. ::)
Maybe so Rossfan, I just can't remember it.
That sounds right to me Rossfan. Amazing how the memory fades.
Heath Ledger (RIP) - brilliant performance.
QuoteWasnt it a Kildare lad in a Leinster Final - 2003 obviously- who caught his shoulder but he went down holding his face.Huh
He recovered after the Kildare chap got a red card. Roll Eyes
I remember that incident - think it was the day we played Limerick in a Roscommon monsoon. Didn't remember if it was Clancy though. Was there something about him possibly clutching his face because he'd taken a hard knock off the ground?
Is there some way of getting the GAAboard from those days back? That's soon tell us. I remember somebody having some historical gaaboard thing before?
Any news on Dan Gordon?
Doesn't look good with this picture but apparently the red card was for handbags straight after this :
http://pa.photoshelter.com/gallery-img-show?G_ID=G0000LMHn7PPSEgg&P_ID=&start=31&pagtotal=41
heard a rumour that clancy is that embarrased with himself he is making a case for gordon on thurs night appeal anyone else hear this???
as mentioned before thon photy has shag all to do with it!!
Quote from: interested on July 30, 2008, 09:04:36 AM
I heard it was tonight---Clancy may get permission from the actor's Guild to attend ;D
the film actors guild (FAG)? ;D
appeal is wednesday from very good authority- also clancy is to attend the hearing with dan in support of his hearing. there may be hope !!!!
Quote from: islandboy on July 30, 2008, 12:28:50 PM
appeal is wednesday from very good authority- also clancy is to attend the hearing with dan in support of his hearing. there may be hope !!!!
WTF is Clancy the big pansy doing there....has he no face at all....after all he is the one who fell like a poof in the first place....totally discredited
Galvins ban reduced to 3months, dan has to get off!
gave the lad a break think it takes a bigger man to admit he made a mistake if he goes and Dan gets off i say fair play to him
Quote from: whyarerefssobad on July 30, 2008, 12:36:50 PM
gave the lad a break think it takes a bigger man to admit he made a mistake if he goes and Dan gets off i say fair play to him
WELL SAID
I agree too, I'd say Clancy is totally embarassed and if it's true he is going in Dan's defence then fair play to him...at least he's trying to put right his wrong!
Fair play to Clencey if he goes in Dan's defence, it would be the honourable thing to do
Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 29, 2008, 09:59:51 PM
Doesn't look good with this picture but apparently the red card was for handbags straight after this :
http://pa.photoshelter.com/gallery-img-show?G_ID=G0000LMHn7PPSEgg&P_ID=&start=31&pagtotal=41
Certainly doesnt look good from this.
Maybe he will get off with the red & replace it with another for this incident ;)
Can none of the Down boys post a link to video footage of the incident? After all RRHF was able to produce a pretty conclusive clip of Marsden chinning Jordan.
Quote from: Over the Bar on July 30, 2008, 01:45:37 PM
Can none of the Down boys post a link to video footage of the incident? After all RRHF was able to produce a pretty conclusive clip of Marsden chinning Jordan.
Its on rte.ie - go to the media player:
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/mediaplayer.html
Programmes, The Sunday Game (with pat) and then go to page 2 to see the qualifier highlights.
Quote from: full back on July 30, 2008, 01:43:42 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 29, 2008, 09:59:51 PM
Doesn't look good with this picture but apparently the red card was for handbags straight after this :
http://pa.photoshelter.com/gallery-img-show?G_ID=G0000LMHn7PPSEgg&P_ID=&start=31&pagtotal=41
Certainly doesnt look good from this.
Maybe he will get off with the red & replace it with another for this incident ;)
That picture is not relavant to the red card. I know the photographer personally (he is a Laois resident) and he has confirmed that that picture was taken 30 seconds BEFORE the red card incident, and before the referee had broke them up and given them a warning. The red card incident was after that and some metres away from that. Unfortunately he does not have a photo of the actual shoulder hit, nor Clancy dropping.
That link provided to the Sunday Game with Pat, is Ireland Only. As R.T.E. apparently do not consider the six counties to be part of Ireland, it is not viewable in the North. Partitionist mentality is alive and well in the 26 Counties broadcasting organisation
Quote from: Pangurban on July 30, 2008, 09:35:48 PM
That link provided to the Sunday Game with Pat, is Ireland Only. As R.T.E. apparently do not consider the six counties to be part of Ireland, it is not viewable in the North. Partitionist mentality is alive and well in the 26 Counties broadcasting organisation
Correct, but the goods news is that the link will work after 9:30 on wednesday nights - that's when the rest of the world (including NI) can see it.
QuoteThat link provided to the Sunday Game with Pat, is Ireland Only. As R.T.E. apparently do not consider the six counties to be part of Ireland, it is not viewable in the North. Partitionist mentality is alive and well in the 26 Counties broadcasting organisation
PangurBan you are being slightly unfair to RTE here. If your ISP says that you are in Ireland then RTE will provide you the service, North or South. If you use an ISP that will not or does not do this, then RTE cannot provide the service as Setanta have the rights outside of Ireland. RTE have many partitionist aspects, but this is not one of them.
Quote from: snatter on July 30, 2008, 10:59:42 PM
Quote from: Pangurban on July 30, 2008, 09:35:48 PM
That link provided to the Sunday Game with Pat, is Ireland Only. As R.T.E. apparently do not consider the six counties to be part of Ireland, it is not viewable in the North. Partitionist mentality is alive and well in the 26 Counties broadcasting organisation
Correct, but the goods news is that the link will work after 9:30 on wednesday nights - that's when the rest of the world (including NI) can see it.
It's still not viewable at 4:00am Thursday morning.
according to the Irish news Dan will know later today if he can play or not
Quote from: armaghniac on July 30, 2008, 11:28:39 PM
QuoteThat link provided to the Sunday Game with Pat, is Ireland Only. As R.T.E. apparently do not consider the six counties to be part of Ireland, it is not viewable in the North. Partitionist mentality is alive and well in the 26 Counties broadcasting organisation
PangurBan you are being slightly unfair to RTE here. If your ISP says that you are in Ireland then RTE will provide you the service, North or South. If you use an ISP that will not or does not do this, then RTE cannot provide the service as Setanta have the rights outside of Ireland. RTE have many partitionist aspects, but this is not one of them.
Yeah, but how many people have been successful going down this route?
My guess is hardly any.
Its hard enough getting an ISP to do anything regarding your own account, never mind getting them to write a letter to RTE (an organisation most of these UK ISP's have probably never heard of) on your behalf.
The reality is that NI has effectively been excluded from this service.
RTE may claim that they will respond to a UK ISP's confirmation, but if RTE know that the UK ISPs never produce them, its an empty claim.
Notable that RTE don't publicise just how many successful NI requests they've had.
was the appeal hearing not last night?
Quote from: Niall Quinn on July 31, 2008, 04:11:57 AM
Quote from: snatter on July 30, 2008, 10:59:42 PM
Quote from: Pangurban on July 30, 2008, 09:35:48 PM
That link provided to the Sunday Game with Pat, is Ireland Only. As R.T.E. apparently do not consider the six counties to be part of Ireland, it is not viewable in the North. Partitionist mentality is alive and well in the 26 Counties broadcasting organisation
Correct, but the goods news is that the link will work after 9:30 on wednesday nights - that's when the rest of the world (including NI) can see it.
It's still not viewable at 4:00am Thursday morning.
Yep, still not viewable at 09:30 on Thursday morning - they're now a full 12 hours late in making it available internationally.
it was but they needed to sleep on it >:(