Is Nationalism on the Decline in the North?

[Wildweasel74]

Nothing like not backing a Armagh GAA player, times change Tony, lol. To be Honest Sinn Fein will make no inroads on old sdlp voters until they do a clear out of Representatives with Jail time shall we say! Should have done a complete clear out of the old guard and brought in all new people with no debatable backgrounds, they progress much farther in the long run. I jump between voting either party but Sinn Fein have really put me off last 10yrs to be honest.

[armaghniac]

We've had these threads before and in my opinion the Westminster election sheds no light on the issue whatsoever. If I was a nationalist in Fermanagh, I'd not be too worried that Elliot would strengthen the union, if he meets any British MPs he is not likely to impress. In an assembly election there may be some importance to who you vote for, in Westminster is matters little.

The point has been made that the nationalists in the 6 counties are poorly led, and two of the more able SF people Gildernew and MOM did not get elected. The SNP had shown what can be done, but we have little sign of a Sturgeon or Salmond.

But as I said before, there are several problems. The economy is now the issue, but SF continue to have policies that concentrate of taking money from those who build the economy and giving it to other people, some deserving, some not. They have very little focus on growing the economy, only on passing around the moolah. Their policies in the south are on this basis and they will now be stranded, as the austerity is largely over without any positive contribution from them.

But the main point, which also seems to have passed by some posters here, is that the South is not the problem. The problem is in the North and its complete and utter bankruptcy. If SF want a UI then they must put NI on some sort of solid basis, but there is almost no sign of any glimmer of realisation that this is the case, they continue to argue for subsidy after subsidy, implying that they do not want a UI anytime soon.  Oddly enough, yesterdays election may lead to a bit of a crash diet for NI, as Cameron will be cutting expenditure generally and he cannot really treat NI more favourably than Scotland. Meanwhile FG in the 26 will be cutting taxes, restoring cuts and so on. This may make a UI more attractive, but unless NI can be whipped into shape it will not be a proper suitor.

[BennyCake]

NI doesn't work politically. Never has or will. Everything is based on bigotry and that won't change anytime soon. It's one of the reasons why I haven't voted in years.

[02]

Everything is based on bigotry and that won't change anytime soon.

Surely not, this guy used to read the news for UTV and he definitely sounds more impartial these days...

The Ulster Unionist leader Mike Nesbitt said the Fermanagh and South Tyrone seat had been an election priority.

"After the local government [election] last year I took my blank page for this campaign and what I wanted at number one was to win back for unionism, off Sinn Féin, the most westerly constituency in the United Kingdom, because that sends out a massive positive message to unionism."

[T Fearon]

I do not understand people who claim to be fed up and don't vote.How will change come about?

[SHEEDY]

I do not understand people who claim to be fed up and don't vote.How will change come about?

should people then just vote for the sake of voting? maybe they don't bother voting because they feel there is no one worth voting for, no one that will make a difference.

[Ulick]

We've had these threads before and in my opinion the Westminster election sheds no light on the issue whatsoever. If I was a nationalist in Fermanagh, I'd not be too worried that Elliot would strengthen the union, if he meets any British MPs he is not likely to impress. In an assembly election there may be some importance to who you vote for, in Westminster is matters little.

The point has been made that the nationalists in the 6 counties are poorly led, and two of the more able SF people Gildernew and MOM did not get elected. The SNP had shown what can be done, but we have little sign of a Sturgeon or Salmond.

But as I said before, there are several problems. The economy is now the issue, but SF continue to have policies that concentrate of taking money from those who build the economy and giving it to other people, some deserving, some not. They have very little focus on growing the economy, only on passing around the moolah. Their policies in the south are on this basis and they will now be stranded, as the austerity is largely over without any positive contribution from them.

But the main point, which also seems to have passed by some posters here, is that the South is not the problem. The problem is in the North and its complete and utter bankruptcy. If SF want a UI then they must put NI on some sort of solid basis, but there is almost no sign of any glimmer of realisation that this is the case, they continue to argue for subsidy after subsidy, implying that they do not want a UI anytime soon.  Oddly enough, yesterdays election may lead to a bit of a crash diet for NI, as Cameron will be cutting expenditure generally and he cannot really treat NI more favourably than Scotland. Meanwhile FG in the 26 will be cutting taxes, restoring cuts and so on. This may make a UI more attractive, but unless NI can be whipped into shape it will not be a proper suitor.

SF never wanted MOM elected to this seat, he's needed in the Assembly. Westminster MPs are the least effective political jobs in the 6 counties (abstentionist or not).

[T Fearon]

There are a range of candidates standing,from the extreme to moderate to non sectarian.Not voting definitely will not change anything

[currychip]

I do not understand people who claim to be fed up and don't vote.How will change come about?

should people then just vote for the sake of voting? maybe they don't bother voting because they feel there is no one worth voting for, no one that will make a difference.

When I vote in the North I don't really expect to make a difference but do so to affirm the person who I see as reflecting values that I have.  A party whose leader has been found to not have upholded decency in dealing with a family problem of abuse is one thing.  A party body and supporters who react by closing ranks to protect the reputation of the party above all else represents values that I wouldn't want to support.  Crikey, sounds like I am describing the Catholic Church.

[naka]

. To be Honest Sinn Fein will make no inroads on old sdlp voters until they do a clear out of Representatives with Jail time shall we say! Should have done a complete clear out of the old guard and brought in all new people with no debatable backgrounds, they progress much farther in the long run. I jump between voting either party but Sinn Fein have really put me off last 10yrs to be honest.

interesting
I didn't vote yesterday but when mallon and hume were about my Ma would have frog marched everyone of the family to make sure mallon got in. He was a real politician, I feel we have poor representatives in Ni at present save actually for Arlene Foster who I rate.
the shinners need to articulate an economic policy which is not just about welfare and utilise MOM who is a super politician, the sdlp need to get shot of mc donnell , atwood, etc who are really worse than useless.
the next 5 years will tell a tale.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

SF need to get rid of Adams, Pearse Doherty is the way forward. In Derry we haven't had a good SF candidate for sometime. O' heara  is not popular, I think Mitchell was last man to pull in the inbetweeners. Some of the scallies hanging off sf in derry are like dead weight. I'm a sf voter but I'm finding it increasingly difficult to put an x down as the caliber of politicians is declining.

[yellowcard]

The Westminster elections are a load of rubbish and have very little impact on the day to day running of the North. It's only a guess but I'd imagine nationalists are a lot more apathetic when it comes to voting to send MPs into a foreign parliament (or not in some cases). Sinn Fein need to transform itself into a 'fit for government' party with viable economic alternatives in the south to take the next step on the credibility ladder. This will require the removal of Adams as leader and the appointment of someone like Conor Murphy, which I can see happening before the next but one Irish election. If we have 5 years of Tory cuts in the north and Sinn Fein get their act together and ready themselves for government in 5/6 years then nationalism/republicanism will be in a much stronger place.

[yellowcard]

Also if Armagh's Justin Mc Nulty had done just slightly better yesterday, Newry and Armagh would also have a Unionist MP to-day.

How do you work that out?

SF 20,488
UU 16,312
SDLP 12,026

It would have taken anywhere between exactly 4,176 and 4,286 vote transfers from SF to SDLP for the Unionists to get in. Highly unlikely to ever get those level of transfers given the predominantly republican nature of the constituency and it would have to have been an almost equal split.

[Minder]

Not that it matters where I live but I wouldn't give Paul Maskey a vote if he was running against Nigel Farage.

Nor would I, as thick as a Bulls c**k

[muppet]

Gallsman and Snoopdog you may be unprepared for pulpit rule, but thousands aren't and this is definitely impacting upon both SDLP and SF Votes.

If everyone up here unanimously voted for a United Ireland tomorrow do you think the Dublin Govt would agree or a majority of people in the 26 counties? No , me neither.

Yip, remember the time they all rejected the GFA.

Your only problem is the the 26 isn't a fundamentalist Catholic regime.