Ulster JFC
Preliminary Round - 13/10/19
St Patrick's, Lisburn (Antrim) v Collegeland (Armagh)
Quarter Finals - 19/10/19 and 20/10/19
(Donegal) v (Antrim)/(Armagh)
Drum/Glack (Derry) v Kildress/Rock (Tyrone)
Drumhowan/Blackhill (Monaghan) v Maguiresbridge (Fermanagh)
Killinkere (Cavan) v Aughlisnafin/Bright (Down)
Ulster IFC
Preliminary Round - 19/10/19
Grange/Shane O'Neill's (Armagh) v Galbally/Pomeroy (Tyrone)
Quarter Finals - 2/11/19 and 3/11/19
Kinawley (Fermanagh) v Glenn/Shamrocks (Down)
Donaghmoyne/Corduff/Magheracloone (Monaghan) v Castledawson/Foreglen/Drumsurn/Claudy (Derry)
(Antrim) v (Donegal)
(Cavan) v (Armagh)/(Tyrone)
Monaghan Junior Football Final - 6th October 2019
Drumhowan v Blackhill
Monaghan Intermediate Semi Final - Thurs 3rd Oct
Donaghmoyne v Corduff
Winners play Magheracloone in the Final on 13th Oct 2019
Going to put an early prediction for Tyrone Intermediate winners to coast through Ulster at a snails pace. Galbally and Pomeroy both very strong from what i can hear, with Galbally especially racking up huge scores so far. Cant see any major opposition coming from my own county especially
Armagh either Grange or Shane O'Neill's
The winners of the Down JFC are unlikely to cause any ripples in Ulster.
Glenn are fancied to win the Down IFC. They have three county players unavailable to them though namely Shay Millar, Ronan Millar and Niall McParland.
Quote from: Gaagaagaa20 on September 30, 2019, 01:00:31 PM
Going to put an early prediction for Tyrone Intermediate winners to coast through Ulster at a snails pace. Galbally and Pomeroy both very strong from what i can hear, with Galbally especially racking up huge scores so far. Cant see any major opposition coming from my own county especially
Kinawley are Fermanagh intermediate champions and have a decent side.
Derry
Intermediate
Foreglen/Castledawson/Drumsurn/Claudy
Junior
Drum/Glack
In all honesty I can't see us challenging in either. Our junior winners won't make it past the Tyrone winners.
Intermediate have the Monaghan winners up first and they are usually strong at Intermediate too. Possibly if Claudy win they could give it a run.
Derry haven't had an Intermediate finalist since Craigbane won it in 2011 and have never won Junior although Faughanvale and Limavady were beaten finalists in recent times.
Blackhill are the Monaghan Junior champions for 2019
Intermediate final next Sunday between Magheracloone and Donaghmoyne
Donegal intermediate final - St Nauls v Aodh Ruadh or Cloughaneely
Junior - Letterkenny Gaels v Buncrana
Bright won their first ever Down JFC title yesterday after a two point win over Aughlisnafin. They had lost 6 finals since 1995.
Glack won the Derry Junior title
Foreglen and Claudy in the Intermediate final.
Ulster JFC
Preliminary Round - 13/10/19
St Patrick's, Lisburn (Antrim) v Collegeland (Armagh)
Quarter Finals - 19/10/19 and 20/10/19
Buncrana/Letterkenny Gaels (Donegal) v (Antrim)/(Armagh)
Glack (Derry) v Rock (Tyrone)
Blackhill (Monaghan) v Maguiresbridge (Fermanagh)
Killinkere (Cavan) v Bright (Down)
Ulster IFC
Preliminary Round - 19/10/19
Grange (Armagh) v Galbally (Tyrone)
Quarter Finals - 2/11/19 and 3/11/19
Kinawley (Fermanagh) v Glenn/Shamrocks (Down)
Donaghmoyne/Magheracloone (Monaghan) v Foreglen/Claudy (Derry)
Aldergrove (Antrim) v St Naul's/Aodh Ruadh/Cloughaneely (Donegal)
Laragh United (Cavan) v (Armagh)/(Tyrone)
Quote from: DownFanatic on September 30, 2019, 01:23:47 PM
The winners of the Down JFC are unlikely to cause any ripples in Ulster.
Glenn are fancied to win the Down IFC. They have three county players unavailable to them though namely Shay Millar, Ronan Millar and Niall McParland.
Glenn win Down IFC today-good to see Niall Mc Parland back playing
Quote from: DownFanatic on October 07, 2019, 11:05:07 AM
Ulster JFC
Preliminary Round - 13/10/19
St Patrick's, Lisburn (Antrim) v Collegeland (Armagh)
Quarter Finals - 19/10/19 and 20/10/19
Buncrana/Letterkenny Gaels (Donegal) v (Antrim)/(Armagh)
Glack (Derry) v Rock (Tyrone)
Blackhill (Monaghan) v Maguiresbridge (Fermanagh)
Killinkere (Cavan) v Bright (Down)
Ulster IFC
Preliminary Round - 19/10/19
Grange (Armagh) v Galbally (Tyrone)
Quarter Finals - 2/11/19 and 3/11/19
Kinawley (Fermanagh) v Glenn/Shamrocks (Down)
Donaghmoyne/Magheracloone (Monaghan) v Foreglen/Claudy (Derry)
Aldergrove (Antrim) v St Naul's/Aodh Ruadh/Cloughaneely (Donegal)
Laragh United (Cavan) v (Armagh)/(Tyrone)
St. Nauls and Buncrana won in Donegal.
Ulster JFC
Preliminary Round - 13/10/19
St Patrick's, Lisburn (Antrim) 1-06 v Collegeland (Armagh) 0-13
Quarter Finals - 19/10/19 and 20/10/19
Buncrana (Donegal) v Collegeland (Armagh)
Glack (Derry) v Rock (Tyrone)
Blackhill (Monaghan) v Maguiresbridge (Fermanagh)
Killinkere (Cavan) v Bright (Down)
Ulster IFC
Preliminary Round - 19/10/19
Grange (Armagh) v Galbally (Tyrone)
Quarter Finals - 2/11/19 and 3/11/19
Kinawley (Fermanagh) v Glenn (Down)
Magheracloone (Monaghan) v Foreglen/Claudy (Derry)
Aldergrove (Antrim) v St Naul's (Donegal)
Laragh United (Cavan) v (Armagh)/(Tyrone)
Who would be strong in each of these competitions?
Rock have serious experience at Junior level in the past and should be there or thereabouts. Donegal teams have come good at Junior in recent times. Would Buncrana be able to make an impact?
Intermediate seems quite strong this year. Could make a case for most of the teams left in it.
Galbally from Tyrone shouldn't be far away from Ulster but it will depend on how hard they have celebrated. They lost their first game all year at the weekend there so who knows.
Galbally probably favourites for Intermediate but Kinawley would be my dark horses. Think Buncrana play in a high enough division in Donegal, so they prob strong enough for Junior? Rock will be there or thereabouts. What is it with Rock anyway? Always seem to move between Junior and Intermediate.
Quote from: tintin25 on October 14, 2019, 03:22:45 PM
Galbally probably favourites for Intermediate but Kinawley would be my dark horses. Think Buncrana play in a high enough division in Donegal, so they prob strong enough for Junior? Rock will be there or thereabouts. What is it with Rock anyway? Always seem to move between Junior and Intermediate.
They are a small club, they have a small enough pick - they also don't try a leg when they get to Intermediate. It'll be the same this year. But it wasn't that long ago they lost a play off to go to Senior Football either.
I'd hazard a guess that Magheracloone will do quite well in Intermediate. After a long senior stint they were relegated last year, but most thought they were too good for intermediate, and so it turned out as they won the championship and finished top of the league. They were only in the senior county final a couple of years ago so it was surprising to see them down last year. I'd say they'd be one of the better and more experienced teams in the Ulster intermediate.
Quote from: DownFanatic on October 14, 2019, 11:26:29 AM
Who would be strong in each of these competitions?
Rock have serious experience at Junior level in the past and should be there or thereabouts. Donegal teams have come good at Junior in recent times. Would Buncrana be able to make an impact?
Intermediate seems quite strong this year. Could make a case for most of the teams left in it.
St Nauls have a couple of county men, but no first choice at that level. Brendan McCole played the league last year when Neil McGee was out, but Mickey Newman gave him a harsh lesson in the Div 2 final and that was more or less it for the season.
Young Mogan impressed greatly on county minor and U-21 teams and is hopefully one for the future.
Stephen Griffin was in and around the senior squad for a number of seasons, but with the likes of Murphy, McFadden, McBrearty etc ahead of him, he never got much of a look in. Scored a goal against Cork in the 2009 AI quarter final (they hammered us, but Murphy, at 18 or 19, was immense) and he once got an equalizing point in the last minute of a league game down in Castlebar.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2019, 03:27:58 PM
Quote from: tintin25 on October 14, 2019, 03:22:45 PM
Galbally probably favourites for Intermediate but Kinawley would be my dark horses. Think Buncrana play in a high enough division in Donegal, so they prob strong enough for Junior? Rock will be there or thereabouts. What is it with Rock anyway? Always seem to move between Junior and Intermediate.
They are a small club, they have a small enough pick - they also don't try a leg when they get to Intermediate. It'll be the same this year. But it wasn't that long ago they lost a play off to go to Senior Football either.
Well obviously that's not true. Bit of an urban myth that one in Tyrone circles.
Quote from: square_ball on October 14, 2019, 07:51:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2019, 03:27:58 PM
Quote from: tintin25 on October 14, 2019, 03:22:45 PM
Galbally probably favourites for Intermediate but Kinawley would be my dark horses. Think Buncrana play in a high enough division in Donegal, so they prob strong enough for Junior? Rock will be there or thereabouts. What is it with Rock anyway? Always seem to move between Junior and Intermediate.
They are a small club, they have a small enough pick - they also don't try a leg when they get to Intermediate. It'll be the same this year. But it wasn't that long ago they lost a play off to go to Senior Football either.
Well obviously that's not true. Bit of an urban myth that one in Tyrone circles.
They get relegated every single time they go up. I don't know what more evidence is required on that one really to be honest with you.
No you literally said they don't try a leg when they go up. They've been beat in a few relegation play offs the last few years they've been promoted. What do they say at the start of the year here lads we'll get relegated this year? 6th smallest club in Tyrone in terms of members. As usual it's easy to criticise on this board. They're doing alright.
Quote from: DownFanatic on October 14, 2019, 11:26:29 AM
Who would be strong in each of these competitions?
Rock have serious experience at Junior level in the past and should be there or thereabouts. Donegal teams have come good at Junior in recent times. Would Buncrana be able to make an impact?
Intermediate seems quite strong this year. Could make a case for most of the teams left in it.
Ryan Bradley former county midfielder is Buncrana, is he playing? What about the jigger O'connor - didn't he start the 2014 all Ireland final?
Good wins for Rock and Galbally.
Killinkere beat Bright by 5 pts today too.
Itchy, did Killinkere get promoted to Div1 and if so how do they play in the Junior championship?
Quote from: Targetman on October 20, 2019, 09:08:12 PM
Itchy, did Killinkere get promoted to Div1 and if so how do they play in the Junior championship?
League and championship seperate in Cavan. They got promoted in league a couple months ago. Last year promoted from division 3 to 2 and lost junior final. This year 2 to 1 and now up to intermediate.
Quote from: mrdeeds on October 20, 2019, 10:39:56 PM
Quote from: Targetman on October 20, 2019, 09:08:12 PM
Itchy, did Killinkere get promoted to Div1 and if so how do they play in the Junior championship?
League and championship seperate in Cavan. They got promoted in league a couple months ago. Last year promoted from division 3 to 2 and lost junior final. This year 2 to 1 and now up to intermediate.
How can a team in Div. 1 play in a Junior championship??
Surely that's totall unfair? - would Cavan clubs not to pissed off at that?
Clubs in Cavan fine about it. They were division 2 is right this year. It's very rare the above happens but if they lost junior final they would have been a junior club next year in division 1. Sure league and championship are two seperate competitions.
Quote from: mrdeeds on October 20, 2019, 11:19:40 PM
Clubs in Cavan fine about it. They were division 2 is right this year. It's very rare the above happens but if they lost junior final they would have been a junior club next year in division 1. Sure league and championship are two seperate competitions.
So in 2020, they'll be in Div. 1 league team and when that league starts, they could be All Ireland Jnr. Champions.
How does that work out?
Quote from: marty34 on October 20, 2019, 11:36:45 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on October 20, 2019, 11:19:40 PM
Clubs in Cavan fine about it. They were division 2 is right this year. It's very rare the above happens but if they lost junior final they would have been a junior club next year in division 1. Sure league and championship are two seperate competitions.
So in 2020, they'll be in Div. 1 league team and when that league starts, they could be All Ireland Jnr. Champions.
How does that work out?
Because they are two different competitions. Promotion and relegation are seperate for both.
Quote from: mrdeeds on October 21, 2019, 08:08:50 AM
Quote from: marty34 on October 20, 2019, 11:36:45 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on October 20, 2019, 11:19:40 PM
Clubs in Cavan fine about it. They were division 2 is right this year. It's very rare the above happens but if they lost junior final they would have been a junior club next year in division 1. Sure league and championship are two seperate competitions.
So in 2020, they'll be in Div. 1 league team and when that league starts, they could be All Ireland Jnr. Champions.
How does that work out?
Because they are two different competitions. Promotion and relegation are seperate for both.
How does one get relegated to junior then?
Ulster JFC
Preliminary Round - 13/10/19
St Patrick's, Lisburn (Antrim) 1-06 v Collegeland (Armagh) 0-13
Quarter Finals - 19/10/19 and 20/10/19
Buncrana (Donegal) 1-14 v Collegeland (Armagh) 0-09
Glack (Derry) 0-06 v Rock (Tyrone) 2-15
Blackhill (Monaghan) 1-16 v Maguiresbridge (Fermanagh) 0-09
Killinkere (Cavan) 1-15 v Bright (Down) 1-10
Ulster IFC
Preliminary Round - 19/10/19
Grange (Armagh) 1-05 v Galbally (Tyrone) 0-16
Quarter Finals - 2/11/19 and 3/11/19
Kinawley (Fermanagh) v Glenn (Down)
Magheracloone (Monaghan) v Foreglen (Derry)
Aldergrove (Antrim) v St Naul's (Donegal)
Laragh United (Cavan) v Galbally (Tyrone)
Quote from: mrdeeds on October 21, 2019, 08:08:50 AM
Quote from: marty34 on October 20, 2019, 11:36:45 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on October 20, 2019, 11:19:40 PM
Clubs in Cavan fine about it. They were division 2 is right this year. It's very rare the above happens but if they lost junior final they would have been a junior club next year in division 1. Sure league and championship are two seperate competitions.
So in 2020, they'll be in Div. 1 league team and when that league starts, they could be All Ireland Jnr. Champions.
How does that work out?
Because they are two different competitions. Promotion and relegation are seperate for both.
That's an odd set up in my opinion.
So in league, you could be playing at a higher standard on a regular basis, then go into a chsmpionship game against a team who are 1 league above or below you?
As an aside, heard recently that Gearoid Mc Kernian is going to Cavan Gaels - they seem to hoover up some amount of players from other clubs.
Is there not a few counties still set up like Cavan? I think Donegal still is and I remember the Antrim Hurling Championship being that way not too long ago either.
It's not that odd at all. And they would get relegated to Junior by being Relegated from Intermediate Championship.
Killenkere reached Intermediate final in 2016 but struggled in 2017 Championship and relegated to Junior
Look at the Inter County scene. There is 4 divisions In league, and in championip a Division 4 team could play a Division 1 team in a Provincial championship game
Yet people cry about disregarding the weaker counties
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 21, 2019, 09:51:32 AM
It's not that odd at all. And they would get relegated to Junior by being Relegated from Intermediate Championship.
Killenkere reached Intermediate final in 2016 but struggled in 2017 Championship and relegated to Junior
Look at the Inter County scene. There is 4 divisions In league, and in championip a Division 4 team could play a Division 1 team in a Provincial championship game
Yet people cry about disregarding the weaker counties
This is club football. It becomes odd when counties with differing "interpretations" of what constitutes a junior club meet each other in club competition. Kerry are the prime example. They have Division 1 clubs play junior and intermediate all the time
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 21, 2019, 09:51:32 AM
It's not that odd at all. And they would get relegated to Junior by being Relegated from Intermediate Championship.
Killenkere reached Intermediate final in 2016 but struggled in 2017 Championship and relegated to Junior
Look at the Inter County scene. There is 4 divisions In league, and in championip a Division 4 team could play a Division 1 team in a Provincial championship game
Yet people cry about disregarding the weaker counties
Genuinely curious as to how this happens. Is it just 1 club relegated each year? Is there a playoff between all losers of the first round or something like that?
Quote from: general_lee on October 21, 2019, 10:04:55 AM
It becomes odd when counties with differing "interpretations" of what constitutes a junior club meet each other in club competition. Kerry are the prime example. They have Division 1 clubs play junior and intermediate all the time
This makes the All Ireland Intermediates and Juniors a farce, in my opinion.
Yeah 1 Club. They go into a play off against other 3 clubs who were beaten. The Cavan Championship isn't knock out like most other Ulster Counties. Group stages with teams who didn't advance going into relegation
In 2017 3 clubs went Down as the Cavan Club championship was lob sided, with too many teams in Senior and Intermediate. The aim wss of Clubs doing better in Ulster Club
As far as I am aware all counties have the right to decide how many teams they want in their respective championships and how these championships operate. It makes for serious inequalities across the board. Some counties have absolutely no correlation between their leagues and championships either.
My own county Down have a very honest system whereby league standings determine your gradings. It means clubs that are of proper intermediate and junior standard are playing in their proper championship.
Quote from: DownFanatic on October 21, 2019, 11:18:52 AM
My own county Down have a very honest system whereby league standings determine your gradings. It means clubs that are of proper intermediate and junior standard are playing in their proper championship.
Do Down clubs agree to play league matches without county players?
Quote from: DownFanatic on October 21, 2019, 11:18:52 AM
As far as I am aware all counties have the right to decide how many teams they want in their respective championships and how these championships operate. It makes for serious inequalities across the board. Some counties have absolutely no correlation between their leagues and championships either.
My own county Down have a very honest system whereby league standings determine your gradings. It means clubs that are of proper intermediate and junior standard are playing in their proper championship.
Armagh is the same, although previously under the old set up we have had Division 1 teams complete at intermediate and a division 2 team compete at junior. Now we have three leagues that correspond with the three respective championship grades. Never in a million years could I see a team be considered good enough to play Crossmaglen in the league but only fit to play junior championship :o
Quote from: five points on October 21, 2019, 11:50:24 AM
Quote from: DownFanatic on October 21, 2019, 11:18:52 AM
My own county Down have a very honest system whereby league standings determine your gradings. It means clubs that are of proper intermediate and junior standard are playing in their proper championship.
Do Down clubs agree to play league matches without county players?
Yes.
We have a 'Starred System' whereby there are certain games throughout the season that are starred in which county players can't play in.
Clubs in Cavan play a lot of league games without county players so would be unfair to grade championship based on that. Killinkere are in the position where they have no county players so played teams missing players in the league. Crosserlough for example have 7 county players. Lavey are a strong senior team but in division 2 because missing county lads for league.
Quote from: marty34 on October 20, 2019, 10:54:39 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on October 20, 2019, 10:39:56 PM
Quote from: Targetman on October 20, 2019, 09:08:12 PM
Itchy, did Killinkere get promoted to Div1 and if so how do they play in the Junior championship?
League and championship seperate in Cavan. They got promoted in league a couple months ago. Last year promoted from division 3 to 2 and lost junior final. This year 2 to 1 and now up to intermediate.
How can a team in Div. 1 play in a Junior championship??
Surely that's totall unfair? - would Cavan clubs not to pissed off at that?
Dont think people see it like that, league and championship is separate in most counties isn't it?
Quote from: Itchy on October 21, 2019, 12:49:58 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 20, 2019, 10:54:39 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on October 20, 2019, 10:39:56 PM
Quote from: Targetman on October 20, 2019, 09:08:12 PM
Itchy, did Killinkere get promoted to Div1 and if so how do they play in the Junior championship?
League and championship seperate in Cavan. They got promoted in league a couple months ago. Last year promoted from division 3 to 2 and lost junior final. This year 2 to 1 and now up to intermediate.
How can a team in Div. 1 play in a Junior championship??
Surely that's totall unfair? - would Cavan clubs not to pissed off at that?
Dont think people see it like that, league and championship is separate in most counties isn't it?
But most team say, play Div.1 league football and then play senior championship..Div.2 league and Intermediate championship etc. etc.
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 21, 2019, 09:51:32 AM
It's not that odd at all. And they would get relegated to Junior by being Relegated from Intermediate Championship.
Killenkere reached Intermediate final in 2016 but struggled in 2017 Championship and relegated to Junior
Look at the Inter County scene. There is 4 divisions In league, and in championip a Division 4 team could play a Division 1 team in a Provincial championship game
Yet people cry about disregarding the weaker counties
But that's why now Rodney, there's a clamour for a tiered system...or at least 2 tiers.
Quote from: general_lee on October 21, 2019, 10:04:55 AM
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 21, 2019, 09:51:32 AM
It's not that odd at all. And they would get relegated to Junior by being Relegated from Intermediate Championship.
Killenkere reached Intermediate final in 2016 but struggled in 2017 Championship and relegated to Junior
Look at the Inter County scene. There is 4 divisions In league, and in championip a Division 4 team could play a Division 1 team in a Provincial championship game
Yet people cry about disregarding the weaker counties
This is club football. It becomes odd when counties with differing "interpretations" of what constitutes a junior club meet each other in club competition. Kerry are the prime example. They have Division 1 clubs play junior and intermediate all the time
True, there should be no divisional sides or amalgamations moving on into the provincial set up - not fair on other teams.
I remember reading somewhere, last year or year before where Cavan Gaels were joining with a club beside them for minor championship!!! A big town like that merging a minor level. Not sure who went on to the St. Paul's minor tournament in Belfast though.
On that, in the years ahead, there will be issues regarding depopulation and fielding teams especially in rural areas.
Having asked the initial question regarding Killerkere I still don't think its a level playing field when it comes to the Intermediate and Junior, Bright will l play in Div 4 next year and Killenkere in Div 1
Quote from: marty34 on October 21, 2019, 01:00:34 PM
]True, there should be no divisional sides or amalgamations moving on into the provincial set up - not fair on other teams.
I remember reading somewhere, last year or year before where Cavan Gaels were joining with a club beside them for minor championship!!! A big town like that merging a minor level. Not sure who went on to the St. Paul's minor tournament in Belfast though.
No divisional sides or amalgamations are allowed into provincial clubs championships.
St Pauls' is a tournament though, not an official competition. They can set their own rules if they wish.
Quote from: Targetman on October 21, 2019, 01:29:17 PM
Having asked the initial question regarding Killerkere I still don't think its a level playing field when it comes to the Intermediate and Junior, Bright will l play in Div 4 next year and Killenkere in Div 1
It probably does seem like that, but they were in Division 3 last year and hadn't won the Junior Championship. Why should promotion automatically mean that you have to go a grade higher in the championship? Would there have been this argument had Killenkere finished bottom of Division 2? Think the problem with Down is that they have too many divisions. Lisburn played in Division 2 this year and won the Antrim Junior championship by a couple of points, they wouldn't have got past the first round in Intermediate. Also, a 5 points victory is hardly justification that it's unbalanced.
Quote from: five points on October 21, 2019, 01:41:39 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 21, 2019, 01:00:34 PM
]True, there should be no divisional sides or amalgamations moving on into the provincial set up - not fair on other teams.
I remember reading somewhere, last year or year before where Cavan Gaels were joining with a club beside them for minor championship!!! A big town like that merging a minor level. Not sure who went on to the St. Paul's minor tournament in Belfast though.
No divisional sides or amalgamations are allowed into provincial clubs championships.
St Pauls' is a tournament though, not an official competition. They can set their own rules if they wish.
Thanks for that FPs.
Quote from: DownFanatic on October 21, 2019, 11:18:52 AM
As far as I am aware all counties have the right to decide how many teams they want in their respective championships and how these championships operate. It makes for serious inequalities across the board. Some counties have absolutely no correlation between their leagues and championships either.
My own county Down have a very honest system whereby league standings determine your gradings. It means clubs that are of proper intermediate and junior standard are playing in their proper championship.
What I can't understand is why more footballing counties don't adopt Kerry's system.
I think their divisional structure and club competitions is a huge part of why Kerry are so strong at intercounty.
Everything I've ever heard about the Kerry club structures, lead me to believe that there's a serious volume of competitive games at all levels year-in year-out.
They cast their net wide and in terms of being selected for intercounty it doesn't seem to matter if you come from one of the big clubs or one of the minnows.
I can understand why hurling/dual counties might have difficulties with it from a fixtures point of view, but a whole raft of footballing counties should have copied them years ago.
Quote from: marty34 on October 21, 2019, 12:55:44 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 21, 2019, 09:51:32 AM
It's not that odd at all. And they would get relegated to Junior by being Relegated from Intermediate Championship.
Killenkere reached Intermediate final in 2016 but struggled in 2017 Championship and relegated to Junior
Look at the Inter County scene. There is 4 divisions In league, and in championip a Division 4 team could play a Division 1 team in a Provincial championship game
Yet people cry about disregarding the weaker counties
But that's why now Rodney, there's a clamour for a tiered system...or at least 2 tiers.
Of course... They complain that a tierd system is disregarding counties. A hammering in a Provincial and qualifier game isn't any benefit.
Leitrim and Wicklow proposed the idea. Some of the others objected. Thery could have a chance of playing the final at Croke Park. That wasn't going to happen through the qualifiers
As regards the club scene. Trillick in Tyrone I read were beaten in a Intermeduate final a few years ago but wee promoted in Division 2 and played Senior football the following year. That's just devaluing the Intermediate Championship
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 21, 2019, 07:24:05 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 21, 2019, 12:55:44 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 21, 2019, 09:51:32 AM
It's not that odd at all. And they would get relegated to Junior by being Relegated from Intermediate Championship.
Killenkere reached Intermediate final in 2016 but struggled in 2017 Championship and relegated to Junior
Look at the Inter County scene. There is 4 divisions In league, and in championip a Division 4 team could play a Division 1 team in a Provincial championship game
Yet people cry about disregarding the weaker counties
But that's why now Rodney, there's a clamour for a tiered system...or at least 2 tiers.
Of course... They complain that a tierd system is disregarding counties. A hammering in a Provincial and qualifier game isn't any benefit.
Leitrim and Wicklow proposed the idea. Some of the others objected. Thery could have a chance of playing the final at Croke Park. That wasn't going to happen through the qualifiers
As regards the club scene. Trillick in Tyrone I read were beaten in a Intermeduate final a few years ago but wee promoted in Division 2 and played Senior football the following year. That's just devaluing the Intermediate Championship
I just think that leagues and championships be tied and that you play the same teams in both.
Was checking Cavan league earlier - KK won Div. 2 league but they've won Junior championship.
Is that correct Rodney?
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 21, 2019, 07:24:05 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 21, 2019, 12:55:44 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 21, 2019, 09:51:32 AM
It's not that odd at all. And they would get relegated to Junior by being Relegated from Intermediate Championship.
Killenkere reached Intermediate final in 2016 but struggled in 2017 Championship and relegated to Junior
Look at the Inter County scene. There is 4 divisions In league, and in championip a Division 4 team could play a Division 1 team in a Provincial championship game
Yet people cry about disregarding the weaker counties
But that's why now Rodney, there's a clamour for a tiered system...or at least 2 tiers.
Of course... They complain that a tierd system is disregarding counties. A hammering in a Provincial and qualifier game isn't any benefit.
Leitrim and Wicklow proposed the idea. Some of the others objected. Thery could have a chance of playing the final at Croke Park. That wasn't going to happen through the qualifiers
As regards the club scene. Trillick in Tyrone I read were beaten in a Intermeduate final a few years ago but wee promoted in Division 2 and played Senior football the following year. That's just devaluing the Intermediate Championship
Trillick won the Senior Championship the next year. They only went up through the league play-offs too having come second in the league. So it definitely didn't devalue the Intermediate Championship. If anything it proves the point that teams in the top division should be playing in the Senior Championship.
Teams such as Kilinkere can just effectively throw a championship to get downgraded to maximise chances of success in Junior. Not saying it can't happen in counties such as Down but due to league placings and championship being connected it is counterproductive to do so. Div 4 in Down is not really the place for any team with serious ambition for any sort of success.
Teams in division 2 in down can purposely lose a few meaningless end of season league games to be eligible to play intermediate championship the following year. I've also heard of 1 team in tyrone who discussed purposely losing a relegation playoff to intermediate in order to have a go for a ulster title.
Are the Rock not taking the piss going up and down every couple of years? they seem hell bent on winning this holy grail of a Junior All-Ireland.
Probably should bring in some sort of timeframe based rule to stop this carry on for the provincial championships.
Quote from: clarshack on October 22, 2019, 09:29:54 AM
Are the Rock not taking the piss going up and down every couple of years? they seem hell bent on winning this holy grail of a Junior All-Ireland.
Probably should bring in some sort of timeframe based rule to stop this carry on for the provincial championships.
Don't know if they are intentionally going up and down, I think the last time they went up it was just after the All Ireland campaign and its hard to keep at a top level for two years. In the hurling there is a five year rule, IE win an ulster intermediate you have to play senior the next 5 years
Quote from: Pearse Blue on October 22, 2019, 09:41:14 AM
Quote from: clarshack on October 22, 2019, 09:29:54 AM
Are the Rock not taking the piss going up and down every couple of years? they seem hell bent on winning this holy grail of a Junior All-Ireland.
Probably should bring in some sort of timeframe based rule to stop this carry on for the provincial championships.
Don't know if they are intentionally going up and down, I think the last time they went up it was just after the All Ireland campaign and its hard to keep at a top level for two years. In the hurling there is a five year rule, IE win an ulster intermediate you have to play senior the next 5 years
Is that rule in hurling not changed now to two years - the 5 year rule was far too long for clubs.
Quote from: marty34 on October 22, 2019, 10:31:12 AM
Quote from: Pearse Blue on October 22, 2019, 09:41:14 AM
Quote from: clarshack on October 22, 2019, 09:29:54 AM
Are the Rock not taking the piss going up and down every couple of years? they seem hell bent on winning this holy grail of a Junior All-Ireland.
Probably should bring in some sort of timeframe based rule to stop this carry on for the provincial championships.
Don't know if they are intentionally going up and down, I think the last time they went up it was just after the All Ireland campaign and its hard to keep at a top level for two years. In the hurling there is a five year rule, IE win an ulster intermediate you have to play senior the next 5 years
Think it might be three years, two years would be better though.
Is that rule in hurling not changed now to two years - the 5 year rule was far too long for clubs.
Quote from: clarshack on October 22, 2019, 09:29:54 AM
Are the Rock not taking the piss going up and down every couple of years? they seem hell bent on winning this holy grail of a Junior All-Ireland.
Probably should bring in some sort of timeframe based rule to stop this carry on for the provincial championships.
I know I've called this BS out before. Come on Clarshack you don't really believe that do you? They are not intentionally going down just to win a junior all ireland championship. They've been beat in a few relegation play offs over the years. How come if they were looking relegated why don't they just lose every game? They have lost various players over the years and have a relatively small pick as it is.
Hurling clubs who win Ulster at Junior and Intermediate level are not allowed to enter the provincial championship at that same level for either 3 or 5 years, someone can confirm that?
Quote from: square_ball on October 22, 2019, 10:37:46 AM
Quote from: clarshack on October 22, 2019, 09:29:54 AM
Are the Rock not taking the piss going up and down every couple of years? they seem hell bent on winning this holy grail of a Junior All-Ireland.
Probably should bring in some sort of timeframe based rule to stop this carry on for the provincial championships.
I know I've called this BS out before. Come on Clarshack you don't really believe that do you? They are not intentionally going down just to win a junior all ireland championship. They've been beat in a few relegation play offs over the years. How come if they were looking relegated why don't they just lose every game? They have lost various players over the years and have a relatively small pick as it is.
Would Cookstown be like this also? - in the intermediate a few years ago, then up and down to the first division, then down to Div. 2 again etc.
They should have no problem with numbers.
Quote from: The Bearded One on October 22, 2019, 10:42:15 AM
Hurling clubs who win Ulster at Junior and Intermediate level are not allowed to enter the provincial championship at that same level for either 3 or 5 years, someone can confirm that?
I thought it was five, possibly three but there definitely is some sort of rule. Middletown won Armagh this year and had to enter the senior championship as they have won it previously and Keady have been put into the intermediate
Quote from: marty34 on October 22, 2019, 10:44:02 AM
Quote from: square_ball on October 22, 2019, 10:37:46 AM
Quote from: clarshack on October 22, 2019, 09:29:54 AM
Are the Rock not taking the piss going up and down every couple of years? they seem hell bent on winning this holy grail of a Junior All-Ireland.
Probably should bring in some sort of timeframe based rule to stop this carry on for the provincial championships.
I know I've called this BS out before. Come on Clarshack you don't really believe that do you? They are not intentionally going down just to win a junior all ireland championship. They've been beat in a few relegation play offs over the years. How come if they were looking relegated why don't they just lose every game? They have lost various players over the years and have a relatively small pick as it is.
Would Cookstown be like this also? - in the intermediate a few years ago, then up and down to the first division, then down to Div. 2 again etc.
They should have no problem with numbers.
Again i would sat with 100% certainty that Cookstown didnt decide to get relegated one year so they could go back and win the intermediate all ireland the following year. Relegation happens. You can get a bad run of results that means you are chasing your tale and you end up going down.
Those Cookstown intermediate teams were backboned by excellent underage teams who were winning grade one titles at u16 and minor as well as a few very good older players. Their youth teams now have been pretty poor this past 10 years and have been playing at grade 2 and 3 level. Of course they have the numbers but they just don't have the quality of player coming through as demonstrated by being close to relegation this year. I'm sure there's another debate there to see why that is. Unless people are suggesting they have decided at the start of the year that they want to give the junior all Ireland a rattle next year. That's certainly what posters are saying the Rock do.
What's everyone's opinions now after the weekends results?
Kilcoo should make the final now and I'd expect them to face Glenties. They will never get a better chance to win it since they are the most experienced team left in the competition but they have failed to get over the line in the past. Them and Glenties are 2 dogged sides who suit winter football so I would make them joint favourites at this stage.
Quote from: Pearse Blue on October 22, 2019, 10:45:38 AM
Quote from: The Bearded One on October 22, 2019, 10:42:15 AM
Hurling clubs who win Ulster at Junior and Intermediate level are not allowed to enter the provincial championship at that same level for either 3 or 5 years, someone can confirm that?
I thought it was five, possibly three but there definitely is some sort of rule. Middletown won Armagh this year and had to enter the senior championship as they have won it previously and Keady have been put into the intermediate
It was 5 years until this year. Reduced to 3 now
Ulster JFC
Preliminary Round - 13/10/19
St Patrick's, Lisburn (Antrim) 1-06 v Collegeland (Armagh) 0-13
Quarter Finals - 19/10/19 and 20/10/19
Buncrana (Donegal) 1-14 v Collegeland (Armagh) 0-09
Glack (Derry) 0-06 v Rock (Tyrone) 2-15
Blackhill (Monaghan) 1-16 v Maguiresbridge (Fermanagh) 0-09
Killinkere (Cavan) 1-15 v Bright (Down) 1-10
Semi Finals
Buncrana v Rock
Blackhill v Killinkere
Final
Buncrana v Blackhill
Ulster IFC
Preliminary Round - 19/10/19
Grange (Armagh) 1-05 v Galbally (Tyrone) 0-16
Quarter Finals - 2/11/19 and 3/11/19
Kinawley (Fermanagh) v Glenn (Down)
Magheracloone (Monaghan) v Foreglen (Derry)
Aldergrove (Antrim) v St Naul's (Donegal)
Laragh United (Cavan) v Galbally (Tyrone)
Semi Finals
Glenn v Magheracloone
St Naul's v Galbally
Glenn's victory over Kinawley in the IFC shouldn't be underestimated. All season they haven't had Denis Murtagh, Shea Millar or Ronan Millar. All three away on their travels. All three are county seniors. They also didn't have Niall McParland for this game, former county senior captain, who is now based in Qatar. Another former county senior, Mattie Bagnall, didn't start the game.
Be interesting to see how they go against Magheracloone but Glenn have done amazingly well to get this far considering the personnel they are missing.
Not sure if Matty ever got called up to county seniors. Denis was in and around squad shortly after his U21 days under wee James I think but wouldn't have got game time in league or championship. The other three were all Senior players who figured for Down last season. Throw Liam Bagnall into the mix there too and that is a lot of talent to be doing without.
Coping without Matty, who has been their top scorer for 11 years for three quarters of Sunday's game, just shows the resilience of that team. Full of admiration for the work of Tony Bagnall and his management team. A first ever win in Ulster is a great achievement.
Quote from: Minus15 on November 05, 2019, 11:29:25 PM
Not sure if Matty ever got called up to county seniors. Denis was in and around squad shortly after his U21 days under wee James I think but wouldn't have got game time in league or championship. The other three were all Senior players who figured for Down last season. Throw Liam Bagnall into the mix there too and that is a lot of talent to be doing without.
Coping without Matty, who has been their top scorer for 11 years for three quarters of Sunday's game, just shows the resilience of that team. Full of admiration for the work of Tony Bagnall and his management team. A first ever win in Ulster is a great achievement.
I'll second that minus 15. Remember the last time me and you ventured into ulster championship football 😂 we can meet in Armagh next Sunday and reminisce about it
Quote from: general on November 07, 2019, 09:04:42 PM
Quote from: Minus15 on November 05, 2019, 11:29:25 PM
Not sure if Matty ever got called up to county seniors. Denis was in and around squad shortly after his U21 days under wee James I think but wouldn't have got game time in league or championship. The other three were all Senior players who figured for Down last season. Throw Liam Bagnall into the mix there too and that is a lot of talent to be doing without.
Coping without Matty, who has been their top scorer for 11 years for three quarters of Sunday's game, just shows the resilience of that team. Full of admiration for the work of Tony Bagnall and his management team. A first ever win in Ulster is a great achievement.
I'll second that minus 15. Remember the last time me and you ventured into ulster championship football 😂 we can meet in Armagh next Sunday and reminisce about it
I have been back since with similar results
Good showing by the Monaghan clubs here - Blackhill junior champions after a great win last night, and Magheracloone through to the intermediate final.
Ulster JFC
Preliminary Round - 13/10/19
St Patrick's, Lisburn (Antrim) 1-06 v Collegeland (Armagh) 0-13
Quarter Finals - 19/10/19 and 20/10/19
Buncrana (Donegal) 1-14 v Collegeland (Armagh) 0-09
Glack (Derry) 0-06 v Rock (Tyrone) 2-15
Blackhill (Monaghan) 1-16 v Maguiresbridge (Fermanagh) 0-09
Killinkere (Cavan) 1-15 v Bright (Down) 1-10
Semi Finals
Buncrana v Rock
Blackhill v Killinkere
Final
Buncrana v Blackhill
Ulster IFC
Preliminary Round - 19/10/19
Grange (Armagh) 1-05 v Galbally (Tyrone) 0-16
Quarter Finals - 2/11/19 and 3/11/19
Kinawley (Fermanagh) v Glenn (Down)
Magheracloone (Monaghan) v Foreglen (Derry)
Aldergrove (Antrim) v St Naul's (Donegal)
Laragh United (Cavan) v Galbally (Tyrone)
Semi Finals
Glenn v Magheracloone
St Naul's v Galbally
Final
Magheracloone v Galbally
Dogged display by the Glenties Saturday night in Omagh.
Got frozen at it.
Looking forward to the final
Great article in the Irish Times with Tommy Freeman on Magheracloone's year recovering from losing their club grounds.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/i-was-afraid-that-our-future-stars-would-fall-through-the-cracks-1.4091151 (https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/i-was-afraid-that-our-future-stars-would-fall-through-the-cracks-1.4091151)
Good win by Magheracloone in the Intermediate final by the sounds of it. I said from the start that I thought they'd do well as they're above intermediate level in my opinion and last year's relegation was just a blip, but there seemed to be alot of people here really talking up Galbally, so it's a good win for the Magheracloone men.
Galbally will have learned well from this defeat could be a dark horse in senior next year.
Nice to see Magheracloone finish the year on a high after their pitch troubles.
Quote from: BennyCake on November 30, 2019, 11:04:44 PM
Nice to see Magheracloone finish the year on a high after their pitch troubles.
+1
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger!
Ulster JFC
Preliminary Round - 13/10/19
St Patrick's, Lisburn (Antrim) 1-06 v Collegeland (Armagh) 0-13
Quarter Finals - 19/10/19 and 20/10/19
Buncrana (Donegal) 1-14 v Collegeland (Armagh) 0-09
Glack (Derry) 0-06 v Rock (Tyrone) 2-15
Blackhill (Monaghan) 1-16 v Maguiresbridge (Fermanagh) 0-09
Killinkere (Cavan) 1-15 v Bright (Down) 1-10
Semi Finals
Buncrana v Rock
Blackhill v Killinkere
Final
Buncrana v Blackhill
Ulster IFC
Preliminary Round - 19/10/19
Grange (Armagh) 1-05 v Galbally (Tyrone) 0-16
Quarter Finals - 2/11/19 and 3/11/19
Kinawley (Fermanagh)
Magheracloone (Monaghan) v Foreglen (Derry)
Aldergrove (Antrim) v St Naul's (Donegal)
Laragh United (Cavan) v Galbally (Tyrone)
Semi Finals
Glenn v Magheracloone
St Naul's v Galbally
Final
Magheracloone v Galbally
Ulster IFC and JFC Titles
JFC - 2001 to 2019
Monaghan - 8
Tyrone - 6
Donegal - 2
Cavan - 2
Armagh - 1
Down - 0
Antrim - 0
Fermanagh - 0
Derry - 0
IFC - 1998 to 2019
Tyrone - 7
Monaghan - 4
Down - 3
Derry - 3
Donegal - 2
Cavan - 1
Fermanagh - 1
Antrim - 1
Quote from: DownFanatic on December 05, 2019, 11:21:06 AM
Ulster IFC and JFC Titles
JFC - 2001 to 2019
Monaghan - 8
Tyrone - 6
Donegal - 2
Cavan - 2
Armagh - 1
Down - 0
Antrim - 0
Fermanagh - 0
Derry - 0
IFC - 1998 to 2019
Tyrone - 7
Monaghan - 4
Down - 3
Derry - 3
Donegal - 2
Cavan - 1
Fermanagh - 1
Antrim - 1
Does the internal grading in Monaghan and Tyrone reflect their success at Ulster level in Intermediate and Junior?
Quote from: SamFever on December 05, 2019, 11:47:35 PM
Quote from: DownFanatic on December 05, 2019, 11:21:06 AM
Ulster IFC and JFC Titles
JFC - 2001 to 2019
Monaghan - 8
Tyrone - 6
Donegal - 2
Cavan - 2
Armagh - 1
Down - 0
Antrim - 0
Fermanagh - 0
Derry - 0
IFC - 1998 to 2019
Tyrone - 7
Monaghan - 4
Down - 3
Derry - 3
Donegal - 2
Cavan - 1
Fermanagh - 1
Antrim - 1
Does the internal grading in Monaghan and Tyrone reflect their success at Ulster level in Intermediate and Junior?
There are 48 clubs in Tyrone (or at least there were) who are split evenly - 16 in senior championship/division 1, 16 in intermediate championship/division 2 and 16 in junior championship/division 3.
Monaghan only has 29 clubs. 10 Senior, 10 Intermediate and 9 Junior with Scotstown also entering a junior team to make this up to 10 also. There does tend to be a trend of teams getting promoted one year but struggling to stay there the next. Magheracloone had a rough year in 2018 and it resulted in relegation. But they were always going to be too strong for intermediate and getting Tommy Freeman talked into coming back helped them too. They were a good bit ahead of the rest. Blackhill are a good junior outfit but like other clubs would find intermediate tough. Emyvale won Junior in 2018 and finished 8th in intermediate narrowly avoiding the drop for next season. Aughnamullen and Sean McDermotts were relegated to junior and should be strong there next year.
Quote from: timmyot501 on December 06, 2019, 09:45:13 AM
Monaghan only has 29 clubs. 10 Senior, 10 Intermediate and 9 Junior with Scotstown also entering a junior team to make this up to 10 also. There does tend to be a trend of teams getting promoted one year but struggling to stay there the next. Magheracloone had a rough year in 2018 and it resulted in relegation. But they were always going to be too strong for intermediate and getting Tommy Freeman talked into coming back helped them too. They were a good bit ahead of the rest. Blackhill are a good junior outfit but like other clubs would find intermediate tough. Emyvale won Junior in 2018 and finished 8th in intermediate narrowly avoiding the drop for next season. Aughnamullen and Sean McDermotts were relegated to junior and should be strong there next year.
Only 1 club has more than one adult championship team in Monaghan or do they play junior B championship etc?