You arrive at the airport and find out that the plane you're due to fly on is a Boeing 737 max and the airline is one of those remaining that have not suspended it from the fleet.
What do you do?
Turn on your heels or ask for a glass of Milk they used to give B.A from the A-team before flying.
Flew in one on Norwegian Air a couple of months ago. :o :(
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2019, 12:31:07 PM
Flew in one on Norwegian Air a couple of months ago. :o :(
Not this one I hope :D
https://simpleflying.com/norwegian-boeing-737-is-stuck-in-iran-after-in-flight-fault/ (https://simpleflying.com/norwegian-boeing-737-is-stuck-in-iran-after-in-flight-fault/)
The (737)jet took off from Dubai last night on a normal flight back to Norway, when the 2-month-old plane experience engine trouble. It had to perform an emergency descent from 32,000 feet to land at Shiraz International Airport, Iran.
They had to circle many times to burn/dump fuel and shut down one of their engines.
When I heard about the Ethiopia Airlines disaster I was expecting it to be some 40 year old hen house. Who is at fault here? Normally it's pilot error and I'm no aviation expert but it doesn't look good for Boeing that this is the second air disaster involving these planes in under 6 months.
Quote from: Main Street on March 11, 2019, 12:37:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2019, 12:31:07 PM
Flew in one on Norwegian Air a couple of months ago. :o :(
Not this one I hope :D
https://simpleflying.com/norwegian-boeing-737-is-stuck-in-iran-after-in-flight-fault/ (https://simpleflying.com/norwegian-boeing-737-is-stuck-in-iran-after-in-flight-fault/)
The (737)jet took off from Dubai last night on a normal flight back to Norway, when the 2-month-old plane experience engine trouble. It had to perform an emergency descent from 32,000 feet to land at Shiraz International Airport, Iran.
They had to circle many times to burn/dump fuel and shut down one of their engines.
Fortunately, no. :)
Norwegian does a budget flight from Newburgh, about an hour north of NYC, to Dublin.
But it was definitely a 737 Max that day.
Quote from: general_lee on March 11, 2019, 12:41:52 PM
When I heard about the Ethiopia Airlines disaster I was expecting it to be some 40 year old hen house. Who is at fault here? Normally it's pilot error and I'm no aviation expert but it doesn't look good for Boeing that this is the second air disaster involving these planes in under 6 months.
That's 2 disasters plus all the incidents that you don't hear about.
Looks like Boeing's findings into what caused the first disaster was either erroneous or there are more serious faults.
Boeing is said to be warning its 737 Max customers about erroneous cockpit readings that could make the passenger jet 'aggressively dive'https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-warning-737-max-customers-about-erroneous-cockpit-readings-2018-11?r=US&IR=T (https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-warning-737-max-customers-about-erroneous-cockpit-readings-2018-11?r=US&IR=T)
Quote from: general_lee on March 11, 2019, 12:41:52 PM
When I heard about the Ethiopia Airlines disaster I was expecting it to be some 40 year old hen house. Who is at fault here? Normally it's pilot error and I'm no aviation expert but it doesn't look good for Boeing that this is the second air disaster involving these planes in under 6 months.
Early to speculate but there do seem to be similarities with the Lion Air crash. Issues with a new anti-stall piece of software were referenced in the first crash. I think Boeing were due to or had already issued a software update. Radar/reports from yesterday appears to indicate similar trends.
Awful tragedy.
There were two experts on the Sean O 'Rourke show on Rte Radio 1 who were worth a listen, I'm sure it's available online
Edit: https://www.rte.ie/radio1/today-with-sean-o-rourke/programmes/2019/0311/1035689-today-with-sean-orourke-monday-11-march-2019/?clipid=103062638#103062638
Any chance the 737's computer is called Hal 9000?
Quote from: general_lee on March 11, 2019, 12:41:52 PM
When I heard about the Ethiopia Airlines disaster I was expecting it to be some 40 year old hen house. Who is at fault here? Normally it's pilot error and I'm no aviation expert but it doesn't look good for Boeing that this is the second air disaster involving these planes in under 6 months.
Sounds like you need to update your impressions of Ethiopia.
"
Ethiopia is Africa's fastest-growing economy(https://assets.weforum.org/article/image/large_bEe032_YNAliynGzJ4Mzx_p4CxYTol-2UoSbfBsJfL4.jpg)
Ethiopia's rise has been largely driven by an increase in industrial activity, including investments in infrastructure and manufacturing.
A recent research paper suggests Ethiopia can be the new China, because it has been improving its road and rail connections, and has good air connections. In addition, the report's authors say that Ethiopia has a stable administration that sees manufacturing as a central part of its growth strategy."
Full story: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/05/ethiopia-africa-fastest-growing-economy/ (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/05/ethiopia-africa-fastest-growing-economy/)
I see Norweigan Air have grounded its fleet - they fly Dublin - New York
More like the Irish Aviation Authority took the decision for them.
Europe wide ban now for the 737s, but declared safe in the USA, lucky buggers those Americans.
Quote from: Main Street on March 12, 2019, 06:30:21 PM
Europe wide ban now for the 737s, but declared safe in the USA, lucky buggers those Americans.
One wonders what the response would have been to an Airbus plane?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2019, 04:42:07 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 11, 2019, 12:41:52 PM
When I heard about the Ethiopia Airlines disaster I was expecting it to be some 40 year old hen house. Who is at fault here? Normally it's pilot error and I'm no aviation expert but it doesn't look good for Boeing that this is the second air disaster involving these planes in under 6 months.
Sounds like you need to update your impressions of Ethiopia.
"Ethiopia is Africa's fastest-growing economy
(https://assets.weforum.org/article/image/large_bEe032_YNAliynGzJ4Mzx_p4CxYTol-2UoSbfBsJfL4.jpg)
Ethiopia's rise has been largely driven by an increase in industrial activity, including investments in infrastructure and manufacturing.
A recent research paper suggests Ethiopia can be the new China, because it has been improving its road and rail connections, and has good air connections. In addition, the report's authors say that Ethiopia has a stable administration that sees manufacturing as a central part of its growth strategy."
Full story: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/05/ethiopia-africa-fastest-growing-economy/ (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/05/ethiopia-africa-fastest-growing-economy/)
Never mind that Ethopian Airlines have an incredibly modern fleet, far more modern than Aer Lingus' for example.
Quote from: OgraAnDun on March 12, 2019, 07:47:29 PM
Never mind that Ethopian Airlines have an incredibly modern fleet, far more modern than Aer Lingus' for example.
Respectable airline. I flew on their 787 from LA to Dublin.
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2019, 06:42:59 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 12, 2019, 06:30:21 PM
Europe wide ban now for the 737s, but declared safe in the USA, lucky buggers those Americans.
One wonders what the response would have been to an Airbus plane?
An Airbus inside US airspace would be declared a worse than terrorist threat and Trump would be tweeting about Boeing making America great again.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2019, 04:42:07 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 11, 2019, 12:41:52 PM
When I heard about the Ethiopia Airlines disaster I was expecting it to be some 40 year old hen house. Who is at fault here? Normally it's pilot error and I'm no aviation expert but it doesn't look good for Boeing that this is the second air disaster involving these planes in under 6 months.
Sounds like you need to update your impressions of Ethiopia.
"Ethiopia is Africa's fastest-growing economy
How come GOAL and the like are still asking people in Ireland to send money over to that country if they are doing so well?
Getting scammed bigtime. Again.
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 12, 2019, 09:15:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2019, 04:42:07 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 11, 2019, 12:41:52 PM
When I heard about the Ethiopia Airlines disaster I was expecting it to be some 40 year old hen house. Who is at fault here? Normally it's pilot error and I'm no aviation expert but it doesn't look good for Boeing that this is the second air disaster involving these planes in under 6 months.
Sounds like you need to update your impressions of Ethiopia.
"Ethiopia is Africa's fastest-growing economy
How come GOAL and the like are still asking people in Ireland to send money over to that country if they are doing so well?
Getting scammed bigtime. Again.
Jesus wept ::)
Quote from: red hander on March 12, 2019, 10:01:46 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 12, 2019, 09:15:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2019, 04:42:07 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 11, 2019, 12:41:52 PM
When I heard about the Ethiopia Airlines disaster I was expecting it to be some 40 year old hen house. Who is at fault here? Normally it's pilot error and I'm no aviation expert but it doesn't look good for Boeing that this is the second air disaster involving these planes in under 6 months.
Sounds like you need to update your impressions of Ethiopia.
"Ethiopia is Africa's fastest-growing economy
How come GOAL and the like are still asking people in Ireland to send money over to that country if they are doing so well?
Getting scammed bigtime. Again.
Jesus wept ::)
I prefer to keep him quarantined on the other thread.
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 12, 2019, 09:15:49 PM
How come GOAL and the like are still asking people in Ireland to send money over to that country if they are doing so well?
Getting scammed bigtime. Again.
There're not.
https://www.goalglobal.org/where-we-work
Quote from: armaghniac on March 12, 2019, 10:08:00 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 12, 2019, 09:15:49 PM
How come GOAL and the like are still asking people in Ireland to send money over to that country if they are doing so well?
Getting scammed bigtime. Again.
There're not.
https://www.goalglobal.org/where-we-work
Ethiopia is listed on that page. Take another look.
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 12, 2019, 11:23:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 12, 2019, 10:08:00 PM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 12, 2019, 09:15:49 PM
How come GOAL and the like are still asking people in Ireland to send money over to that country if they are doing so well?
Getting scammed bigtime. Again.
There're not.
https://www.goalglobal.org/where-we-work
Ethiopia is listed on that page. Take another look.
Crap. I should have gone down to the bottom.
From Robert Reich:
You might think that, now that Europe and Asia have grounded the Boeing 737 MAX 8 over safety concerns, the Federal Aviation Administration would want to make sure Americans are safe. Think again.
Trump's FAA, under Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao (who also happens to be Mitch McConnell's wife), is doing absolutely nothing about anything. From today's Wall Street Journal:
"Thirty-five congressional mandates sit unanswered, on everything from minimum seat space to secondary barriers protecting cockpits. The top job at the Federal Aviation Administration has been open for 14 months. Enforcement fines against major U.S. airlines have dropped 88 percent in the past two years, even as three-hour tarmac delays have more than doubled... Even with airlines begging for rules on emotional-support animals, and both Republicans and Democrats expressing concerns about swollen fees, shrunken seating and punitive airline policies, the DOT has been loath to issue new regulations."
And what about the Boeing 737 MAX 8? The Journal goes on to report: "So far, the FAA, siding with Boeing and U.S. airlines, says the plane is safe and a software fix is coming by the end of April." Meanwhile, Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg has personally lobbied Trump not to ground the plane.
So, friends, when you're up there at 40,000 feet, you can relax because Boeing says the plane is safe. And that's all that counts in Trump's Washington.
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 12, 2019, 09:15:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2019, 04:42:07 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 11, 2019, 12:41:52 PM
When I heard about the Ethiopia Airlines disaster I was expecting it to be some 40 year old hen house. Who is at fault here? Normally it's pilot error and I'm no aviation expert but it doesn't look good for Boeing that this is the second air disaster involving these planes in under 6 months.
Sounds like you need to update your impressions of Ethiopia.
"Ethiopia is Africa's fastest-growing economy
How come GOAL and the like are still asking people in Ireland to send money over to that country if they are doing so well?
Getting scammed bigtime. Again.
Ireland GDP per capita $69,330.69
Ethiopia GDP per capita $767.56
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2019, 01:36:50 AM
From Robert Reich:
You might think that, now that Europe and Asia have grounded the Boeing 737 MAX 8 over safety concerns, the Federal Aviation Administration would want to make sure Americans are safe. Think again.
Trump's FAA, under Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao (who also happens to be Mitch McConnell's wife), is doing absolutely nothing about anything. From today's Wall Street Journal:
"Thirty-five congressional mandates sit unanswered, on everything from minimum seat space to secondary barriers protecting cockpits. The top job at the Federal Aviation Administration has been open for 14 months. Enforcement fines against major U.S. airlines have dropped 88 percent in the past two years, even as three-hour tarmac delays have more than doubled... Even with airlines begging for rules on emotional-support animals, and both Republicans and Democrats expressing concerns about swollen fees, shrunken seating and punitive airline policies, the DOT has been loath to issue new regulations."
And what about the Boeing 737 MAX 8? The Journal goes on to report: "So far, the FAA, siding with Boeing and U.S. airlines, says the plane is safe and a software fix is coming by the end of April." Meanwhile, Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg has personally lobbied Trump not to ground the plane.
So, friends, when you're up there at 40,000 feet, you can relax because Boeing says the plane is safe. And that's all that counts in Trump's Washington.
I'd imagine pilots will refuse to fly them until they are proved safe, regardless if they are grounded or not.
Pilots are intelligent people.
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 13, 2019, 07:44:19 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 12, 2019, 09:15:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2019, 04:42:07 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 11, 2019, 12:41:52 PM
When I heard about the Ethiopia Airlines disaster I was expecting it to be some 40 year old hen house. Who is at fault here? Normally it's pilot error and I'm no aviation expert but it doesn't look good for Boeing that this is the second air disaster involving these planes in under 6 months.
Sounds like you need to update your impressions of Ethiopia.
"Ethiopia is Africa's fastest-growing economy
How come GOAL and the like are still asking people in Ireland to send money over to that country if they are doing so well?
Getting scammed bigtime. Again.
Ireland GDP per capita $69,330.69
Ethiopia GDP per capita $767.56
They aren't rich but it's not the Band-Aid days either. Plenty of rich African nations and their diaspora that should be forking out.
I don't see that happening.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 13, 2019, 01:36:50 AM
From Robert Reich:
You might think that, now that Europe and Asia have grounded the Boeing 737 MAX 8 over safety concerns, the Federal Aviation Administration would want to make sure Americans are safe. Think again.
Trump's FAA, under Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao (who also happens to be Mitch McConnell's wife), is doing absolutely nothing about anything. From today's Wall Street Journal:
"Thirty-five congressional mandates sit unanswered, on everything from minimum seat space to secondary barriers protecting cockpits. The top job at the Federal Aviation Administration has been open for 14 months. Enforcement fines against major U.S. airlines have dropped 88 percent in the past two years, even as three-hour tarmac delays have more than doubled... Even with airlines begging for rules on emotional-support animals, and both Republicans and Democrats expressing concerns about swollen fees, shrunken seating and punitive airline policies, the DOT has been loath to issue new regulations."
And what about the Boeing 737 MAX 8? The Journal goes on to report: "So far, the FAA, siding with Boeing and U.S. airlines, says the plane is safe and a software fix is coming by the end of April." Meanwhile, Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg has personally lobbied Trump not to ground the plane.
So, friends, when you're up there at 40,000 feet, you can relax because Boeing says the plane is safe. And that's all that counts in Trump's Washington.
If they're safe why would they need a software fix in April? What is it fixing?
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 13, 2019, 03:56:35 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 13, 2019, 07:44:19 AM
Quote from: Dolph1 on March 12, 2019, 09:15:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2019, 04:42:07 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 11, 2019, 12:41:52 PM
When I heard about the Ethiopia Airlines disaster I was expecting it to be some 40 year old hen house. Who is at fault here? Normally it's pilot error and I'm no aviation expert but it doesn't look good for Boeing that this is the second air disaster involving these planes in under 6 months.
Sounds like you need to update your impressions of Ethiopia.
"Ethiopia is Africa's fastest-growing economy
How come GOAL and the like are still asking people in Ireland to send money over to that country if they are doing so well?
Getting scammed bigtime. Again.
Ireland GDP per capita $69,330.69
Ethiopia GDP per capita $767.56
They aren't rich but it's not the Band-Aid days either. Plenty of rich African nations and their diaspora that should be forking out.
I don't see that happening.
I guess you don't. But that would require a few seconds of googling.
https://alfred.stlouisfed.org/series?seid=DDOI11ETA156NWDB&utm_source=series_page&utm_medium=related_content&utm_term=related_resources&utm_campaign=alfred
Grounded in USA also
There was an interesting interview this morning after 8.40am on R4 with Captain Dennis Tajer, Allied Pilots Association rep for American Airlines, a 737 pilot as well.
They at AA fly a version of the 737 - max 8, he said after the Lion air crash they has a complete break of trust with Boeing who had not given info about the maneuvering automated system MKS. It was new but they hadn't disclosed information on this and but Boeing did respond, came in and they got all the pilots trained on it. He said they at AA since 1998 have a unique piece of equipment called AOA, angle of attack indicator and because of the AOA while on the ground they would have seen the distress that hit Lion air before it happened, before take off and also the AOA would have informed them after take off and combatted the automated system from going awry.
Basically, the design was never fit for release. It contained a single point of failure in the AoA indicators that told MCAS what to do.
Boeing f**ked up and the FAA really f**ked up.
Regulatory capture at its finest.
Quote from: Gmac on March 13, 2019, 06:55:58 PM
Grounded in USA also
Delighted about this. Was due to hop on one on Monday morning with colleagues from work and my suggestions that we drive were falling on deaf ears. We will be in the 737 800 instead.
Quote from: Puckoon on March 13, 2019, 11:39:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 13, 2019, 06:55:58 PM
Grounded in USA also
Delighted about this. Was due to hop on one on Monday morning with colleagues from work and my suggestions that we drive were falling on deaf ears. We will be in the 737 800 instead.
Bring your rosary beads all the same
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_the_Boeing_737#737_Next_Generation_(737-600/-700/-800/-900)_aircraft
What kinda car do you drive? ;D
New York times reporting that both planes that crashed didnt have additional safety features possibly linked the crash as they didnt come as standard. Should also copy and paste this on thWTF thread.
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on March 21, 2019, 06:47:21 PM
New York times reporting that both planes that crashed didnt have additional safety features possibly linked the crash as they didnt come as standard. Should also copy and paste this on thWTF thread.
Anti-crash device was an optional extra then? ffs
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on March 21, 2019, 06:47:21 PM
New York times reporting that both planes that crashed didnt have additional safety features possibly linked the crash as they didnt come as standard. Should also copy and paste this on thWTF thread.
Ah, I think its worse than that. If it had become standard equipment, then the FAA (well, more likely EASA given FAA are in Boeing's back pocket) would have asked why that change from the 737NG?
Which would have shone a brighter light onto the whole thing and likely stopped certification.