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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: Dinny Breen on October 27, 2015, 11:02:52 AM

Title: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: Dinny Breen on October 27, 2015, 11:02:52 AM
Just putting this thread up here as I believe we have a lot of coaches on the board and not just GAA coaches. So it's just an opportunity to share ideas and opinions.

My own background is that I have coached rugby for the last 10 years, I am level II (highest amateur level) qualified and have coached underage (16s-20s) club and rep and have coached club senior men's club and rep. Next year though I will be coaching boys u6s rugby and hopefully girls u8 football and maybe boys u6 football. That will be an interesting transition for me but I already have ideas formed and hopefully I can develop a philosophy that ensures everyone has fun but learn new skills as well.

I am a firm believer in a multi-sports approach for kids, and they should be at least 16 before specialising in one sport. Studies have shown that kids who play multiple sports staying playing sport longer into their adulthood, get injured less and have a wider skill base.

A bone of contention for me is the length of season for all sports. For u6-u12 I would limit a season length to 4 months and for u13-u18 6 months maximum. Of course this would be a Utopian dream as it would involve respective sporting bodies sitting down and working on a calendar that fits all, considering most struggle to get any kind of calendar out at all it would probably take divine intervention.

Also if anyone is thinking of coaching stick to underage, to coach adult men not sure about women you need a Phd in Psychology, ironically I have more success in terms of winning trophies at this level but find it the most demanding and least rewarding. Most players at that level at times are quite simply selfish c**nts. Excuse my language.


Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: Declan on October 27, 2015, 11:33:00 AM
Similar background to Dinny but in Soccer and GAA. Found myself managing/coaching adult teams exclusively over the last few years and took a step back this year because of the sheer frustration of dealing with them.

Hoping to go back refreshed to underage/academy next season.

Everyone I know preaches coaching the correct way rather than the results driven way but in my experience the greatest barrier to this are the parents of Johnny and Mary who think their kids should be playing with Man U, the country etc

Life long participation in a healthy environment should always be the goal
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: Dinny Breen on October 27, 2015, 12:11:14 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 27, 2015, 11:33:00 AM
Similar background to Dinny but in Soccer and GAA. Found myself managing/coaching adult teams exclusively over the last few years and took a step back this year because of the sheer frustration of dealing with them.

Hoping to go back refreshed to underage/academy next season.

Everyone I know preaches coaching the correct way rather than the results driven way but in my experience the greatest barrier to this are the parents of Johnny and Mary who think their kids should be playing with Man U, the country etc

Life long participation in a healthy environment should always be the goal

I find many coaches don't practice what they preach. Ego is a hard thing to contain, 15 minutes to go in a tight match, you have one substitution left, Johnny great attitude but technically deficient, do you run the risk of losing the game to give Johnny quality game time to aid his development or sit back and hope the lads can finish the game out and win?
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: Declan on October 27, 2015, 12:20:37 PM
QuoteEgo is a hard thing to contain, 15 minutes to go in a tight match, you have one substitution left, Johnny great attitude but technically deficient, do you run the risk of losing the game to give Johnny quality game time to aid his development or sit back and hope the lads can finish the game out and win?

Thankfully our leagues and the club in soccer have specific rules that guarantee everyone minimum game time so Johnny has to get game time  - haven't seen this formalised in the GAA but then again its a few years since I was directly involved at underage level
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: AZOffaly on October 27, 2015, 12:30:10 PM
It is 'formally' in the GAA at Go-Games etc, however some coaches were pulling the piss and it has almost become self defeating. It is more 'advantageous' (quotes intentional) to turn up with 14 or 15 for a 13 a side Go Games, as the rule is all players have to get at least a half. If we turn up with 18 or 19, then we have to play them all (rightly). So some clubs were actually leaving lads at home! Talk about short sighted  ::)
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: Dinny Breen on October 27, 2015, 12:38:36 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 27, 2015, 12:20:37 PM
QuoteEgo is a hard thing to contain, 15 minutes to go in a tight match, you have one substitution left, Johnny great attitude but technically deficient, do you run the risk of losing the game to give Johnny quality game time to aid his development or sit back and hope the lads can finish the game out and win?

Thankfully our leagues and the club in soccer have specific rules that guarantee everyone minimum game time so Johnny has to get game time  - haven't seen this formalised in the GAA but then again its a few years since I was directly involved at underage level

I like that rule. At what age is this up to?
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: illdecide on October 27, 2015, 12:40:49 PM
I coached the U16 (GAA) lads this year and it was def testing but enjoyable too especially when i seen how far they came on from i had them in Feb/March time, i took our senior team for a year a few years back and TBH it was really tough mentally and physically and as stated you def would need a Phd in Psychology although for some strange reason i'd def like another go at it just not sure when.

Our Club are trying to coach the kids as long as possible and i think their taking on it is they're afraid of losing them to soccer but i dunno i think you need them to have a good break from it too.

I was told if i wanted to coach next year that from U16 upwards you will have to have level 1 coaching badge in place...have any of you heard this?
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: Dinny Breen on October 27, 2015, 12:49:44 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 27, 2015, 12:30:10 PM
It is 'formally' in the GAA at Go-Games etc, however some coaches were pulling the piss and it has almost become self defeating. It is more 'advantageous' (quotes intentional) to turn up with 14 or 15 for a 13 a side Go Games, as the rule is all players have to get at least a half. If we turn up with 18 or 19, then we have to play them all (rightly). So some clubs were actually leaving lads at home! Talk about short sighted  ::)

I was aware of this in go-games, fantastic initiative but sad to hear coaches manipulating it, again ego is hard to contain.

I have a simple rule for all my teams if you are in the squad and are fit you get substantial game time and these are 15 year old up to 20 year old young men, it helps it rugby though that you can make 12 inter-changes, roll on roll off. I have lost games because of it but I have never lost a player because of it.

Also I had a young player who had to give up rugby and GAA because he signed schoolboy forms for a soccer club in Dublin and his "contract" forbid him from playing other sports! Is this a common occurrence?
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: illdecide on October 27, 2015, 12:50:04 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 27, 2015, 12:20:37 PM
QuoteEgo is a hard thing to contain, 15 minutes to go in a tight match, you have one substitution left, Johnny great attitude but technically deficient, do you run the risk of losing the game to give Johnny quality game time to aid his development or sit back and hope the lads can finish the game out and win?

Thankfully our leagues and the club in soccer have specific rules that guarantee everyone minimum game time so Johnny has to get game time  - haven't seen this formalised in the GAA but then again its a few years since I was directly involved at underage level

Declan not so much ego but ive been in a similar situation at senior level where you are struggling for a win (at a very successful team in the past) and you're down around the bottom of the league fighting for survival. You're in a tight match and think you need to change things to try and get the win, you look over at the bench and you see a guy who's not very good but fit and committed and beside him is a guy with skill hanging out of him and has the ability to win a game on his own but his attitude stinks and trains when he feels like it...You're really struggling for the win as the club members are mouthing off at you and relegation is looming over you...Who do you put on?

99% of people who have never been in that position will say put the guy on who's committed but in truth most people would play their granny if thought she's win them the match...Ive been in the position and went with the skilful guy with bad attitude and it didn't work which i really regretted afterwards (suppose that was a lack of experience). I'd def do it different next time but under the pressure it's strange how your mind works differently.
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: AZOffaly on October 27, 2015, 12:55:39 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on October 27, 2015, 12:49:44 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 27, 2015, 12:30:10 PM
It is 'formally' in the GAA at Go-Games etc, however some coaches were pulling the piss and it has almost become self defeating. It is more 'advantageous' (quotes intentional) to turn up with 14 or 15 for a 13 a side Go Games, as the rule is all players have to get at least a half. If we turn up with 18 or 19, then we have to play them all (rightly). So some clubs were actually leaving lads at home! Talk about short sighted  ::)

I was aware of this in go-games, fantastic initiative but sad to hear coaches manipulating it, again ego is hard to contain.

I have a simple rule for all my teams if you are in the squad and are fit you get substantial game time and these are 15 year old up to 20 year old young men, it helps it rugby though that you can make 12 inter-changes, roll on roll off. I have lost games because of it but I have never lost a player because of it.

Also I had a young player who had to give up rugby and GAA because he signed schoolboy forms for a soccer club in Dublin and his "contract" forbid him from playing other sports! Is this a common occurrence?

That happened me. I was told I would have to give up the GAA if I wanted to play soccer in Athlone. I was on the minor panel at the time, so I turned them down.

As regards the coaches thing, my position on this in our club is that if we are sitting in the pub congratulating ourselves as coaches because we won an U14 championship, but we only did so because we had a couple of big strong lads and everything went through them, and ignored all our 'weaker players', then we have failed as coaches, not succeeded. In 4 years time the big lads will be the same size as everyone else, and we'll have lost the so called weaker players.
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: charlieTully on October 27, 2015, 01:17:10 PM
I helped out coaching the under 8s at our club this year, it was enjoyable for the most part but I struggled at times to keep the attention of some of the more rowdy ones. Club putting on more courses this year which will be a big help I hope. I had a parent come up to me at halftime one match and told me bluntly I needed to sort the midfield out.
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: blewuporstuffed on October 27, 2015, 04:21:32 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on October 27, 2015, 01:17:10 PM
I helped out coaching the under 8s at our club this year, it was enjoyable for the most part but I struggled at times to keep the attention of some of the more rowdy ones. Club putting on more courses this year which will be a big help I hope. I had a parent come up to me at halftime one match and told me bluntly I needed to sort the midfield out.

I do a bit of coaching t u8 level and get this sort of thing all the time as well  ;D

I always try and get all the players playing in the all different positions at that age, but this leads to parents coming up to me and giving out about playing wee johnny in defence/attack/midfield as he is a natural forward/defender/midfielder (delete as appropriate)

Its a thankless task at times  :-[
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: gawa316 on October 27, 2015, 04:24:26 PM
Coach my sons U4 soccer/footy team. 12 of them, at least 4 have ADHD...it's like herding bee's.
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: BenDover on October 27, 2015, 05:04:18 PM
I've been involved with our clubs U6s for 3 years now, took on co-ordinating the whole thing last year which was good in its own way but because I was overseeing the session that I'd planned felt I never go to do much coaching. We did play a few competitive games this year which the kids/coaches loved great to see the skills being put into games.

For the coming season I'm going to try and get the youngest cub (3 in Nov) started with our nursery group and the eldest will be moving to U8 so I'll probably lend a hand there as well.

Regarding the length of season for our U6s we are starting our winter program in Nov for 5 weeks take a break Dec/Jan and will probably resume start of Feb until May (or when the weather picks up to move outside) and then outside we go till mid/end of Sept dependant on the weather. The indoor sessions are all fundamental movement based and the outside sessions all skill work with a ball. We find this works well for us.

Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: finbar o tool on October 27, 2015, 05:17:56 PM
Quote from: illdecide on October 27, 2015, 12:40:49 PM

I was told if i wanted to coach next year that from U16 upwards you will have to have level 1 coaching badge in place...have any of you heard this?

"The policy, approved by GAA Central Council last June on the back of a recommendation from the Football Review Committee and a proposal from the National Games Development Committee, will require all Inter-County management teams in both hurling and football to contain an Award 2 coach from 2016. All Club management teams must contain an Award 1 Coach. From 2018 the Head Coach in both cases must be qualified at the appropriate level."

the above is taken from - https://www.gaa.ie/coaching-and-games-development/news/1101142013-mandatory-coaching-standards-for-2016-announced-at-liberty-insurance-gaa-games-development-conference/

whether this will be enforced or not is another thing i suppose.
i have been trying since last December to get a coaching course and there has been nothing. they only run around this time of year, off season, October/November time. i just missed out on last years. if they are bringing in the above rule the GAA need to make coaching courses way more available to people.
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: StephenC on October 27, 2015, 06:32:34 PM
Brilliant thread.

I've been helping out with the U6's this year. It's about 40% coaching and 60% babysitting, but I really enjoyed every bit of it.
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: ardchieftain on October 27, 2015, 07:47:33 PM
Quote from: finbar o tool on October 27, 2015, 05:17:56 PM
Quote from: illdecide on October 27, 2015, 12:40:49 PM

I was told if i wanted to coach next year that from U16 upwards you will have to have level 1 coaching badge in place...have any of you heard this?

"The policy, approved by GAA Central Council last June on the back of a recommendation from the Football Review Committee and a proposal from the National Games Development Committee, will require all Inter-County management teams in both hurling and football to contain an Award 2 coach from 2016. All Club management teams must contain an Award 1 Coach. From 2018 the Head Coach in both cases must be qualified at the appropriate level."

the above is taken from - https://www.gaa.ie/coaching-and-games-development/news/1101142013-mandatory-coaching-standards-for-2016-announced-at-liberty-insurance-gaa-games-development-conference/

whether this will be enforced or not is another thing i suppose.
i have been trying since last December to get a coaching course and there has been nothing. they only run around this time of year, off season, October/November time. i just missed out on last years. if they are bringing in the above rule the GAA need to make coaching courses way more available to people.

Have to agree regarding the lack of coaching courses. Been helping out for 3 years now and will only get doing the foundation course next month!
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: finbar o tool on October 27, 2015, 09:03:12 PM
like i said, probably up to U10 would be acceptable to give a medal to all, at the end of the day, up to that age it IS all about turning up. getting them interested, getting them hooked.
as for the blitz idea, i wouldnt be for that, at that age the kids like the familiarity of their friends and it would knock them about throwing them in with strangers. i think there is already a rule in place that all kids get game time. not sure of what age that goes up to, U12 at least.
agree more coaches are needed. if you have big numbers you cant just lump them all together and throw in a ball, you would need 3/4 coaches running 3/4 mini games to ensure the kids get plenty of time on the ball. ive seen it before where you have 20/25 kids all playing in one game, the ball stays up one end of the pitch pinging around for 5 mins when the kids at the other end are leaning on the hurls chatting and picking their noses!!
young kids up to U12 must be kept entertained and busy!
U16 is a tough group to manage, they're not quite adults but they like to think they are!
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: BenDover on October 28, 2015, 08:04:18 AM
With the games we played with our U6s this worked well for us and would imagine it would do for everyone else:
Getting the kids used to the idea of staying in their zone was pretty easy, turn over possession every time they strayed into the next zone and they soon realise their boundary. Using zones is also an easy way to switch the kids into different positions. Every kid gets plenty of time on the ball during the game as well.
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: Billys Boots on October 28, 2015, 09:01:58 AM
Like Declan, I'm a coach in a football club - have coached for 10 years and am taking U17s this year.  I've a UEFA Youth Cert which qualifies me to coach up to U18s.  I always thought I'd have no interest in coaching at senior/adult level, and Declan's comments would appear to back up that thinking.  I understand that I'm moving back to some sort of 'coach the coaches' role from next season as the club tries to implement a football development plan.  As Dinny says, ego is the main issue we face on a daily basis - I don't think I'm looking forward to a role where I am to be 'instructing' those who already know everything.
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: Dinny Breen on October 30, 2015, 01:34:09 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bcy2M86IYAAU4G-.jpg)

I've always like this.

As for pushy parents, unless they are a volunteer with the club their opinion doesn't matter  ;)
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: muppet on October 30, 2015, 02:00:49 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 27, 2015, 12:55:39 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on October 27, 2015, 12:49:44 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 27, 2015, 12:30:10 PM
It is 'formally' in the GAA at Go-Games etc, however some coaches were pulling the piss and it has almost become self defeating. It is more 'advantageous' (quotes intentional) to turn up with 14 or 15 for a 13 a side Go Games, as the rule is all players have to get at least a half. If we turn up with 18 or 19, then we have to play them all (rightly). So some clubs were actually leaving lads at home! Talk about short sighted  ::)

I was aware of this in go-games, fantastic initiative but sad to hear coaches manipulating it, again ego is hard to contain.

I have a simple rule for all my teams if you are in the squad and are fit you get substantial game time and these are 15 year old up to 20 year old young men, it helps it rugby though that you can make 12 inter-changes, roll on roll off. I have lost games because of it but I have never lost a player because of it.

Also I had a young player who had to give up rugby and GAA because he signed schoolboy forms for a soccer club in Dublin and his "contract" forbid him from playing other sports! Is this a common occurrence?

That happened me. I was told I would have to give up the GAA if I wanted to play soccer in Athlone. I was on the minor panel at the time, so I turned them down.

As regards the coaches thing, my position on this in our club is that if we are sitting in the pub congratulating ourselves as coaches because we won an U14 championship, but we only did so because we had a couple of big strong lads and everything went through them, and ignored all our 'weaker players', then we have failed as coaches, not succeeded. In 4 years time the big lads will be the same size as everyone else, and we'll have lost the so called weaker players.

I would think that a contract with an U-16 wouldn't be enforceable. Anyone with a legal background able to confirm?


As for coaching, my young lad's club asked me to train as a coach, but work interfered unfortunately so I couldn't make it. The club probably won't run another course for a while. Is there anywhere else I can go to get the relevant qualifications?
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: Billys Boots on October 30, 2015, 02:46:51 PM
I think most of the 'big' football clubs don't want the distractions of other sports from U16 onward.  In fact, actually (in North Dublin anyway) the GAA switch U15/16 games to Sundays only for that year - have always interpreted that as a ploy to make kids decide.  It fails miserably in that (in our parish anyway) there's neither a football team or a gaelic football team at U15 for that year.  And it all falls back into place for U16, as if nothing had happened. 
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: Rudi on October 30, 2015, 03:02:20 PM
Quote from: ardchieftain on October 27, 2015, 07:47:33 PM
Quote from: finbar o tool on October 27, 2015, 05:17:56 PM
Quote from: illdecide on October 27, 2015, 12:40:49 PM

I was told if i wanted to coach next year that from U16 upwards you will have to have level 1 coaching badge in place...have any of you heard this?

"The policy, approved by GAA Central Council last June on the back of a recommendation from the Football Review Committee and a proposal from the National Games Development Committee, will require all Inter-County management teams in both hurling and football to contain an Award 2 coach from 2016. All Club management teams must contain an Award 1 Coach. From 2018 the Head Coach in both cases must be qualified at the appropriate level."

the above is taken from - https://www.gaa.ie/coaching-and-games-development/news/1101142013-mandatory-coaching-standards-for-2016-announced-at-liberty-insurance-gaa-games-development-conference/

whether this will be enforced or not is another thing i suppose.
i have been trying since last December to get a coaching course and there has been nothing. they only run around this time of year, off season, October/November time. i just missed out on last years. if they are bringing in the above rule the GAA need to make coaching courses way more available to people.

Have to agree regarding the lack of coaching courses. Been helping out for 3 years now and will only get doing the foundation course next month!

I did the foundation course 1/2 was theory and 1/2 was drills with football. Thought it was a waste of time to be honest. Jobs for the boys type thing.Think any future coach should be put with experienced coach for 3 weeks, after that sink or swim. Have to say I really enjoyed year, worked with U-8's, parents were great too. We had 40 girls and boys between 5 coaches. We did a 10 min warm up with footballs. 30 mins of drills (picking up, fist pass, foot pass, tackling, solo, catch etc. ) Finished up with 25 minute condition game, broke into 2 groups based on standard.
Next year we hope to develop spacial awareness and picking out a pass among the kids, however at that age group don't think it may be possible. The go games are great, as long as the competing teams are not unbalanced.

Super thread by the way.
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 02, 2015, 11:22:05 AM
Johan Forsberg  is a professional Ice Hockey player at Luleå Hockey. In October 2015 he posted a stunning open letter to ALL young Swedish Ice Hockey players on his Facebook page. This was a response to the ongoing, often polarised debate in Sweden with regard to early talent identification, early selection and elite programs. This emotional message is relevant to all youth sports. I urge you to share it with as many people as possible. This is a must read for all children, parents, coaches, Governing Bodies and club stakeholders.

To all young ice hockey players

I never got to play in TV- Pucken (An elite Swedish national Ice Hockey tournament for district teams of boys under 15 years of age)

I was very bad at skating, among other things and I have not been much better since.

I remember the tears and shame. I wanted to quit playing ice hockey

I threw the equipment in a corner at home in the garage and felt no joy for my friends who got a place in the elite camp.

I felt no joy

Only sorrow

Real sorrow

But I wiped my tears and continued to train, continued to have fun and tried to convince myself that sport had a deeper meaning

Community, joy, dreams

And also other tears

Now I sit hear smelling of sweat after another day at work as a professional hockey player

I never really learned to skate properly

But I learned that everything does not end even if it feels like it has

That life, sport and the future is what it is

Bumpy

And to all young ice hockey players

Support each, be a good friend

Have fun and enjoy

Sport is more that blood, sweat and tears

More than sorrow

Don't forget that

Love and Respect

Johan Forsberg – Luleå Hockey.
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: AZOffaly on November 02, 2015, 11:29:17 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 02, 2015, 11:22:05 AM
Johan Forsberg  is a professional Ice Hockey player at Luleå Hockey. In October 2015 he posted a stunning open letter to ALL young Swedish Ice Hockey players on his Facebook page. This was a response to the ongoing, often polarised debate in Sweden with regard to early talent identification, early selection and elite programs. This emotional message is relevant to all youth sports. I urge you to share it with as many people as possible. This is a must read for all children, parents, coaches, Governing Bodies and club stakeholders.

To all young ice hockey players

I never got to play in TV- Pucken (An elite Swedish national Ice Hockey tournament for district teams of boys under 15 years of age)

I was very bad at skating, among other things and I have not been much better since.

I remember the tears and shame. I wanted to quit playing ice hockey

I threw the equipment in a corner at home in the garage and felt no joy for my friends who got a place in the elite camp.

I felt no joy

Only sorrow

Real sorrow

But I wiped my tears and continued to train, continued to have fun and tried to convince myself that sport had a deeper meaning

Community, joy, dreams

And also other tears

Now I sit hear smelling of sweat after another day at work as a professional hockey player

I never really learned to skate properly

But I learned that everything does not end even if it feels like it has

That life, sport and the future is what it is

Bumpy

And to all young ice hockey players

Support each, be a good friend

Have fun and enjoy

Sport is more that blood, sweat and tears

More than sorrow

Don't forget that

Love and Respect

Johan Forsberg – Luleå Hockey.

Very Good. Istvan Balyi, an authority on long term athlete development, spoke to our club as we formulated our coaching and development plan. He gave a very similar anecdote regarding Ice Hockey in Canada. They are apparently losing players by the thousand every year because of their emphasis on the 'elite' development, from a very young age, and he pointed out that there are many many reasons, psychological and physiological, why a child may not have the same technical proficiency or athletic ability to some of his peers, and there is no reason to sideline them and ignore them. The classic 'late developers'.

Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: screenexile on November 02, 2015, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 02, 2015, 11:29:17 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 02, 2015, 11:22:05 AM
Johan Forsberg  is a professional Ice Hockey player at Luleå Hockey. In October 2015 he posted a stunning open letter to ALL young Swedish Ice Hockey players on his Facebook page. This was a response to the ongoing, often polarised debate in Sweden with regard to early talent identification, early selection and elite programs. This emotional message is relevant to all youth sports. I urge you to share it with as many people as possible. This is a must read for all children, parents, coaches, Governing Bodies and club stakeholders.

To all young ice hockey players

I never got to play in TV- Pucken (An elite Swedish national Ice Hockey tournament for district teams of boys under 15 years of age)

I was very bad at skating, among other things and I have not been much better since.

I remember the tears and shame. I wanted to quit playing ice hockey

I threw the equipment in a corner at home in the garage and felt no joy for my friends who got a place in the elite camp.

I felt no joy

Only sorrow

Real sorrow

But I wiped my tears and continued to train, continued to have fun and tried to convince myself that sport had a deeper meaning

Community, joy, dreams

And also other tears

Now I sit hear smelling of sweat after another day at work as a professional hockey player

I never really learned to skate properly

But I learned that everything does not end even if it feels like it has

That life, sport and the future is what it is

Bumpy

And to all young ice hockey players

Support each, be a good friend

Have fun and enjoy

Sport is more that blood, sweat and tears

More than sorrow

Don't forget that

Love and Respect

Johan Forsberg – Luleå Hockey.

Very Good. Istvan Balyi, an authority on long term athlete development, spoke to our club as we formulated our coaching and development plan. He gave a very similar anecdote regarding Ice Hockey in Canada. They are apparently losing players by the thousand every year because of their emphasis on the 'elite' development, from a very young age, and he pointed out that there are many many reasons, psychological and physiological, why a child may not have the same technical proficiency or athletic ability to some of his peers, and there is no reason to sideline them and ignore them. The classic 'late developers'.

I agree with that. I'm not sure about development squads and never have been. Maybe @ Under 17 in preparation for Minor the following year but outside of that it's just too much given the fact that lads are probably playing on School teams as well. Add to that if you're good enough you're maybe playing on 2/3 school teams and maybe you're good at Soccer/Rugby/Hurling as well then it just gets ridiculous!!
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: finbar o tool on November 02, 2015, 11:41:40 AM
have a read of this article. not related to Johan Forsbergs article above which is also very good.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/34376386

i found it very interesting. i was always of the opinion all sports need to address the mental preparedness as much as the physical/skill side of things. the GAA would benefit greatly from something like this as it is so fast paced.
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: AZOffaly on November 02, 2015, 11:47:44 AM
I work on development squads, and I am a proponent of them. It's a good way of controlling the controllables in terms of bringing coaching to the young lads. However, I am not a proponent of the culling that goes on very early. I know larger numbers can be a challenge logistically, but you can work with that. I don't see the great benefit of cutting a pile of lads every year to meet a notional number.

However bringing lads together, playing with and against better players, with hopefully good coaching, can only help all of them develop.

I would say that development squads shouldn't be the *only* good coaching kids are getting, every club should be taking the above to heart and looking after *all* their players, not just the good ones.
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 02, 2015, 12:11:35 PM
The IRFU now want to form a National Academy from 16s upwards. They are hoping to do away with Youths 18s and Schools 18s and form an Ireland 18s A & B. It was hard enough to get into they system as it was for the late bloomers and I think this well firmly shut the door. In theory Brian O'Driscoll probably wouldn't have made it if this was in place 20 years ago.
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: AZOffaly on November 02, 2015, 12:56:23 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 02, 2015, 12:11:35 PM
The IRFU now want to form a National Academy from 16s upwards. They are hoping to do away with Youths 18s and Schools 18s and form an Ireland 18s A & B. It was hard enough to get into they system as it was for the late bloomers and I think this well firmly shut the door. In theory Brian O'Driscoll probably wouldn't have made it if this was in place 20 years ago.

I don't understand that at all. It should never be a closed shop.
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 02, 2015, 01:25:51 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 02, 2015, 12:56:23 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 02, 2015, 12:11:35 PM
The IRFU now want to form a National Academy from 16s upwards. They are hoping to do away with Youths 18s and Schools 18s and form an Ireland 18s A & B. It was hard enough to get into they system as it was for the late bloomers and I think this well firmly shut the door. In theory Brian O'Driscoll probably wouldn't have made it if this was in place 20 years ago.

I don't understand that at all. It should never be a closed shop.
How late is late? Due to a spike in interest from the RWC there have been a few kids just started in my eldest lads u-12 team. It have caused a bit of an issue with training as they don't have sufficient coaches to take the training as it is, never mind dedicating time to going back to the absolute basics for newbies.
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: Billys Boots on November 02, 2015, 02:30:01 PM
Interesting read on one club's view of the (current) pro youth system in Scotland.

For those chasing Pro Youth Football, can I ask you to stop and think for a minute about the piece below.

This Club, 20 years ago was a strong advocate for Pro youth, in that Scottish Football needed a radical change to try and stop the slip down the rankings of World football. However after another failure to qualify for a major championship (the last being 1998), even when they have opened it up to more teams suggests that the system is failing miserably. With Wales and Northern Ireland qualifying and the Republic, with the potential of still qualifying, all who have smaller leagues, is concerning. Progression in Europe with our Club sides is becoming a national embarrassment. This would suggest that the current system isn't working, and millions being spent on it yearly, it is money certainly not wisely spent.

Outwith about six or seven teams in the whole of Scotland, football development is done badly by our senior sides.

I watch parents trail their 12 year old kids all over Scotland to places like East Stirling three times a week, then travel to Peterhead etc for games, committing four and a half hours to training, spending six hours on travelling before you count in games per week, to achieve what, the possibility to play for East Stirling first team, earning less than what they would make in the local McDonalds or Burger King for committing more hours.

Clyde at least had the honesty to bin their Pro youth system, stating that it was failing, and that they had produced one player in all the time they ran their system and even then, he only lasted a short period. The players lack competitive edge and many fail miserably when they drop out at thirteen/fourteen years of age from pro youth when they are deemed not good enough to make it by the senior Club, who have let them go. These kids may have been at that Club for five or six years. They are badly let down by senior Clubs and many feel like failures at such a young age.

When we come to football, parents become irrational, and if you think logically and compare it to some other careers, would you respond the same way if someone from Burger King called you up to say they wanted your son to come and work for them, when he is eight years of age. Of course you wouldn't however Albion Rovers come in for him, they will drag him to Coatbridge where it will cost you time and money for what return, he will play in the third tier of Scottish Football, and maybe get £20 per week. Just give your son the petrol money you would use taking him to the football and tell him to go and practice 10 hours a week in your back garden. He will become better that way.

People spend far too much time travelling to these out of the way places to try and get their son in the system. If you spend more than three hours travelling, combined, to training every week then surely that must affect your sons schooling. These are young kids and getting home at silly times can only be detrimental to your child and their education. If you spend an hour in a car travelling to training, then an hour and a half training, then an hour coming home. That is three and a half hours. Instead of spending more time in the car than actually training, stay locally, play locally, and use the three and a half hours to practice. That will be the only way he will get the 10,000 hours to become proficient at football. Spend money on a coach to do one to one work with him, get your local Club to run extra nights, ask them to hire in an experienced coach to deliver quality sessions.

Pro youth is dead in its current format and its failing your kid miserably. So ask yourself when a Club comes calling, is it going to be beneficial for my childs future, or detrimental. Is it going to affect my whole family, for the slim chance my son may make it at Morton and earn less than what he would earn in a normal job.
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 02, 2015, 03:23:01 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 02, 2015, 01:25:51 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 02, 2015, 12:56:23 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 02, 2015, 12:11:35 PM
The IRFU now want to form a National Academy from 16s upwards. They are hoping to do away with Youths 18s and Schools 18s and form an Ireland 18s A & B. It was hard enough to get into they system as it was for the late bloomers and I think this well firmly shut the door. In theory Brian O'Driscoll probably wouldn't have made it if this was in place 20 years ago.

I don't understand that at all. It should never be a closed shop.
How late is late? Due to a spike in interest from the RWC there have been a few kids just started in my eldest lads u-12 team. It have caused a bit of an issue with training as they don't have sufficient coaches to take the training as it is, never mind dedicating time to going back to the absolute basics for newbies.

I don't think there should be an age limit on it. Paul O'Connell, John Hayes and loads more all took up rugby late, majority of schools players only start in 1st year. Coaching resources is an issue at any sport but all coaches should be revisiting the basics on a regular basis. With so many unique positions in rugby a player shouldn't know his future position until at least 16 and should still be learning new skills.  I had a 15 year old kid come to me as centre, I moved him to back-row, he got a scholarship to Blackrock and they moved him to prop. He played tight-head for Ireland 20s last year and got into the Leinster Academy this year.
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: Itchy on December 10, 2017, 12:19:51 PM
Lads resurrecting this great thread. I've a question for coaches out there. At what age do you think it appropriate to begin...

1- Introducing underage players to strength and conditioning.
2- Introducing underage players to a gameplan/tactical approach. E.g. get men behind the ball, counter attack vrs high press up the field etc.
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: LooseCannon on December 10, 2017, 12:37:52 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 10, 2017, 12:19:51 PM
Lads resurrecting this great thread. I've a question for coaches out there. At what age do you it appropriate to begin...

1- Introducing underage players to strength and conditioning.
2- Introducing underage players to a gameplan/tactical approach. E.g. get men behind the ball, counter attack vrs high press up the field etc.

As early as possible with fitness. Build it up as you go along.
Bodyweight exercises from about 10 or 12. Not necessarily at training, but let them do it at home.
Obviously show them how to do it at training then let them at it. Planks, bodyweight squats, sit-ups initially. Build up their core. Then can move on to pushups.


Tactical approach: asap(without confusion) start slowly. It will definitely be of  benefit in the long run.
Progressively increase tactical input at trainings. But you'll have to drill it in to them(not in an autocratic tone or anything like it) Repeatedly input the same tactics. Use cones: 15 red 15 blue, etc.(may be 13, idk) line all cones out and explain how it'll be of benefit.
Title: Re: The Coaches/Administrators Thread - All Sports
Post by: redzone on December 10, 2017, 01:40:35 PM
Quote from: LooseCannon on December 10, 2017, 12:37:52 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 10, 2017, 12:19:51 PM
Lads resurrecting this great thread. I've a question for coaches out there. At what age do you it appropriate to begin...

1- Introducing underage players to strength and conditioning.
2- Introducing underage players to a gameplan/tactical approach. E.g. get men behind the ball, counter attack vrs high press up the field etc.

As early as possible with fitness. Build it up as you go along.
Bodyweight exercises from about 10 or 12. Not necessarily at training, but let them do it at home.
Obviously show them how to do it at training then let them at it. Planks, bodyweight squats, sit-ups initially. Build up their core. Then can move on to pushups.


Tactical approach: asap(without confusion) start slowly. It will definitely be of  benefit in the long run.
Progressively increase tactical input at trainings. But you'll have to drill it in to them(not in an autocratic tone or anything like it) Repeatedly input the same tactics. Use cones: 15 red 15 blue, etc.(may be 13, idk) line all cones out and explain how it'll be of benefit.

Less cones the better I sat. Small sided games 3v3 4v4 etc is the way to train. Minor level time for tactics enough for tactics.